PYD09 – JJ Burnam – Data Architect, Analyst, Programmer

(upbeat music) - Well, hello and welcome to Podcast Your Data. This is Tim Costello. Podcast Your Data is a podcast recorded by Interworks, where we talk about exciting things and people in the data community. I'm really excited this week to have my good friend, JJ Burnham out of Tulsa, Oklahoma, on the call with us. Welcome to the call, JJ, how are you doing today? - I'm great, Tim, thanks for having me. - Fantastic. So, JJ and I, we've been friends for a long time. We came together from the SQL community, I think. But we might have run into each other at one of the other sort of community driven events in the Tulsa area. Tulsa's just got a vibrant community of all sorts of different development things going on. Would you say so, JJ? - I would and I'd say, you know, I've been in Tulsa about 11 years now and it's remarkable how Tulsa has grown as the downtown area is really revitalized. And I think a lot of that has to do with kind of a tech-based entrepreneurial spirit that's really kind of coming alive here. It's really thrilling to see. And yeah, and I met you, like you said, at a SQL Saturday, I think in Dallas, back and I've also seen you at a some of the Tulsa tech fest sessions that they've done here as well. Those are a lot of fun. - Tulsa tech fest is actually an amazing event. It's really blown up. It's been sort of the pride of this region for a long time and I've just seen it grow a year over year. Tulsa tech fest, Tulsa School of Dev, there's just so much interesting stuff going on if you're tied into the community here, you can definitely benefit from it. There's a lot of great training opportunities and a lot of great networking opportunities. I just can't hardly, I can't recommend it highly enough. - Yeah, it's really tremendous. And we love that it attracts people like you from outside of the immediate area. I think we've had people from all over the country come in for tech fest before. - Yeah. And you've been involved in organizing some of those, right? - Well, I've participated in the Tulsa SQL, the Tulsa chapter of the PASS organization. So Tulsa SQL Server user group. I've been involved with that. Not so much a direct hand in organizing those various events, but I'm always there. Always trying to, it's part of Tulsa SQL and we always try to make sure and facilitate whoever was gonna do SQL based topics and things like that. So yeah, we've had a little bit of a hand in that. - Absolutely, man. Well, when I do these podcasts, I always like to find out a little bit more about the people I'm talking to. I think it's interesting before we get down to the meat and the potatoes of it, where before we started talking about data to find out where you come from. So give me a little rundown on what your history is like, J.J., where do you come from? What was it you did before you do data? - Well, I grew up in Richardson, Texas, which is a Dallas suburb. And my high school, my schooling career was pretty dismal. It's funny to be in the data world today. I didn't like math, I didn't like anything. I liked art, I liked acting, I liked music. And right out of high school, what I wound up doing is I wound up playing in bands right out of high school. I played bass and a couple of bands and I actually wound up through just kind of meeting other bands and things like that. I wound up joining a band who had a Warner Brothers recording contract in, let's see, I was like, that was 1996, so I was about 22. And I wound up living two years as a bassist in a band. Like touring and recording. And it was, you look back now, it's like, I can't believe I got to do that. Well, what was the name of this band? Is there music out there that I can find? Have I go looking for it? - You could probably find it. They were called Wakeland and they started in, still what? There were a bunch of almost you guys. Started in the '90s and they played in Dallas and they played, you know, regionally. And in, I don't know, mid '90s, they got signed with Deal and they did a big record. You know, went out to Hollywood, made a record tour the country and then their bass player decided to leave the band after that. And we had just, we had played some gigs together and we're like private shows. I was in a, I was in a, like a cover band. So we do parties, like frat parties and stuff. We play three hours, you know, we play all kinds of whatever '90s hits and stuff. But anyway, so we would do things like open up, you know, be the first band at a house party or something and then Wakeland would play. And we just got to know them. And when they had that opening for the bass as they contacted me, I went up, they lived in Norman at that point and went up and I auditioned and got the gig. - Wow. What was that like living on the road with a band? I must have been kind of an intense experience. - It was really strange. It was, we had a big RV. So we had a little bit of space, but you know, it's still pretty, it's not a band. It's, you got more space than a band, but it's still pretty close quarters, you know, when you travel day after day. - Well sorry, young guy, that must have been an amazing experience that must have kind of given you a different perspective on the world. - It did. You know, at the time, I think any of us, when we're young, you know, we just, you don't really appreciate probably what's happening, but you know, the older I get, that is really one of the most special times in my life. You know, just to look back and say, "Yeah, I did that." You know, I'm pretty content now. You know, you look back at what kind of adventures you get to having your life and before you have kids and all that. And that was, that was pretty cool. - Do you ever play with those guys anymore? Do they still play together? - You know, they've just, they stayed together a few years after I left the band and just last fall, they did a, they had been apart for quite a while and they did a series of reunion shows in Oklahoma City and in Tulsa. And I was, they asked me to come up and play a few songs with them in Tulsa. And that was a thrill. It really wasn't a thrill. It was really a thrill. And you know, I've got friends now who I know through my kids, you know, school and stuff. They don't know that I did that. (laughing) So, you know, having them out for that was just, it was just a thrill. - I'll hold this drink while I go up there and play with the band. It's no big deal, right? (laughing) You must have blew your kids minds when you did that. I know that you have kids that are interested in music. They must have probably saw a whole different side of their dad that day. - Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. That's something they'd never been able to see before. So, it was really, really cool. - You know, that's something I'm not especially a musical myself, but I have seen this theme through the tech communities that I travel in and out of over the years. It's really recurring, it's persistent, that a lot of people are interested in both tech and music. And it's, I think there's something about music as both sort of artistic and mathematical and there's precision to it, but there's also sort of a fluidity to it. Do you see something there? Does that work for you? - Oh, I definitely do. I think, you know, funny, just recently, I was talking to a nephew who is a, he's, you know, he's a college freshman and he wanted a major in theater, and now he's thinking he's gravitating towards tech. And I'm like, you know, tech can be a creative endeavor. I mean, it is, it is very creative. And if you have an imagination, you can really exceed in technology. And I think, you know, I'm with you. I've met a lot of people who are also musicians, and I think there's something about that. Like you said, there's some sort of mathematical, there's structure, there's precision. But there's also that creative side. And I think that you might not always look at some of the technology as being creative, but that's a real big part of what we're doing here. You know, is applying creative instincts. - One of the first things that kind of influenced me and in my journey, as I learned in Tableau, was when I was talking with my mentor, Dan Murray, I interviewed him on a previous podcast. And he told me the way I work with data is I put on some jazz, and I kind of dance with the data. I just kind of let it take me where it will. And he liked to listen to jazz when he did this, because it's sort of a, I don't want to say unstructured, but it's a little bit less structured, but at the same time there is sort of a rhythm to it. And there's sort of a, it's got its own thing, right? And it kind of helped him open his mind to looking at data in new and in different ways. And that was very successful for him. And I've seen a lot of other people do it, of course, with different genres, whatever works for you, but there is something there about music, I think. - I think so too. And I'm the same way, I love just cranking up, putting the earbuds in and cranking up some music when I need to get deep into something. You know, whatever type of music works for you is fine. You know, I think it's funny too, you know, you talk about music and, you know, having been a bass player, you know, in rock bands, you know, I wasn't like a songwriter. I was, I was support, right? I was a supporting element in a band. And kind of the way that goes is, you know, you've typically got someone's comes up with a song, and they've got a riff, or they've got a melody, or something, and you put a beat to it, right? You want to, that, it lends itself to a beat. And what I loved about playing bass, and I couldn't have articulated this when I was doing it. But what I loved was, for me, it was the right spot in, you know, melody, tune, beat, you know, that drives the song. And I think of myself as making the beat singing, you know, playing the bass was making the beat singing. And I think there's a lot that analogy lends itself to what I do now with data that my company, you know, we've even had our executives, you know, say, you know, our data is the heartbeat of the company, you know, and when I'm, you know, helping someone on a visualization or designing the data warehouse or working with people on turning data, and that's kind of how I feel, you know, of the data is the heartbeat. I feel like I'm making the beat singing. - Yeah, you gotta find that driving rhythm, and it's a little bit. little different for every different project, every different need, right? There's a little bit of a different pace, a little bit of a different feel, and you have to kind of tie into that and make it happen. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I love the spot I'm in. I look back and I do kind of see that thread, you know, of how do we bring this thing to life, right? You know, data is existing all these systems across our company, how can we bring it together and bring it to life, make it's seeing, make it meaningful, turn it into something of value, you know. So when you finish, when you transition from that career, you went into something else that I find to be fascinating. You did some voice work. What was that like? Well, when I was in high school, I, you know, when I wasn't studying, I also wanted to be a DJ. I loved music. So my time was spent, you know, listening to music, listening to the radio and I just was completely enamored with that, you know, and so broadcasting was something I kind of thought I might do. And in high school, I was the guy who was emceeing at the football game and the different shows at school. So I wound up, there was a parent who was in, who did voice over work and he kind of brought me into this company in Texas out in Irving. At the time, they were, it was called GTE on call. And that, what that business was, this is the nine early 90s. You might have had a yellow pages directory, right? We're back. In front of the, at the front of the book, there were probably some pages like call a number and enter four digit codes and get the weather or get the news or hear a medical tip. There was, do you remember stuff like that? Sure. Absolutely. So he was that kind of company and it was called audio text. So he brought me in there to kind of get my feet wet with voice over work, but also his copyright. I was also a copywriter. And what was funny about that was this, this company had a whole audio production group, I mean, like a talent group who did all the voiceovers and stuff. And they were all radio veterans, but I had grown up listening to endowals. And they were great. They are great people and some of them I'm still connected with, you know, and I was like 18 and they were all, you know, grown up. But what was funny is so many of them, though, had been like, you know, cast aside, you know, because in radio, it's very, very cutthroat. And one day your station gets bought and they're like, hey, we're switching. It's not classic rock. We're going to country. All of you are out, you know. So I kind of got a taste of, well, okay, radio maybe isn't where I want to be. But I kind of like this spot, you know, here's a, here's an interesting stable gig. So anyway, that kind of lent, one thing led to another. I wind up at another company as more the chief audio engineer and did a lot of the voiceover recordings, you know, so, you know, people were, there was a series of phone books across the country called the talking phone book. And you'd call up. And that's the first thing you hear. Welcome to the talking phone book, you know, it's stuff like that. And it was a lot of fun. It got me into digital audio recording, which was a lot of fun. And really it was funny. That was kind of my bridge to data too, because as an organization, we had this, we called it our audio content library, which was, guess what kind of system that library was stored in, Excel. Right? That was our, that was our library database. The world's biggest database, right? You know, and it was just maddening, you know, to try to, to maintain that thing, to try to get answers out of it, to try, it was just maddening. And I became very enamored, gravitated to like Microsoft access and like, okay, I, there's got to be a way that I can get a report out of this, right? That I can turn this data into something I can, you know, print out or email to somebody just, you know, to give them a snapshot of maybe some of the content we had in our library. And I started working with a developer also on some automation. You know, we had new, we had weather reports that had to go out every day, right? Like a, like a, like a voice recorded weather report. Sure. There was like seven seconds long that said, in Philadelphia, high 72, low 53. Yeah, I mean, that's it. It had to be done. And I was like, we got to automate this. This is nuts, you know, having someone sit down on a microphone and record that day in a day out. It's just maddening. So I got a little bit of program, you know, exposure to some programming and, you know, we'd, we'd pull data from the National Weather Service and turn it into audio files. And it kind of just got me going in that direction of, I wish I was better at this. You know, I wish I could do that part. So I was kind of leaving that hole. I want to be the voice guy behind and pivoting toward, I want to be the data guy. Isn't it funny how you follow your passions like that and it just sort of works out? It just bubbles up in the funniest ways, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Because you know, I bet you would never guessed when you were playing bass on a stage back then that today you'd be wrangling databases and sort of finding a different kind of rhythm, you know? No, no way. I didn't, you know, I didn't even have a laptop. You know, I didn't even, I wasn't a computer guy. I didn't have computers when I was a kid. You know, it's just completely, completely out of the realm of my understanding when I was, when I was growing up and when I was doing the, the plane of bands and stuff had no idea. But I was always the guy who was like organizing the mailing list and, and, you know, in kind of men, keeping the calendar for all the gigs, you know, I was always kind of managing the data. You know, you were probably the guy that read the instructions too, right? I spent a lot of time reading the instructions when I was at age. It was the only, I was the only one that did. So I don't know, I think that's sort of a common thing. So then you went on and you got an MIS degree, where did you get that from? Oklahoma State. By that point, I was in Tulsa and I got my degree at the Oklahoma State Tulsa campus. So I wasn't in Stillwater, you know, by this point, I'm in my 30s. So we had, I had two kids at that point and another one came along the way. But, you know, I had done a few undergrad stuff, crap classes in out of high school here and there. So I had a little bit of credits, you know, already and just quit my job, you know, again, that, that job, doing the voice work and, and bridging into data. I said, I'm going to stop this. I'm going to go head first into a degree and MIS is what I chose. And it was an excellent choice. So I really enjoyed that. Loved the OSU program. They, they really did a great job. And then wound up at Symmerex, where I am today. We had a, I was in one of my MIS classes and a guy came in and said, I worked for Symmerex. We're looking for MIS grads, you know, for ERP support, you know, like business, business analysts for their ERP system. So let's line that up for folks that are on the, I might be listening who aren't just familiar. What is an ERP system? Or what would you do with it? Enterprise resource planning system. It's basically, at our company, it's, it's primarily used for our financial accounting. So Symmerex is an oil and gas company. So all those financial transactions, transactions that come through, right? So we've got a well, someone we pay someone to go service that well. That invoice comes through and it's got to be paid. It goes through that ERP system and leaves a lot of good data in the, in the database, you know, that we've since pulled together into a data warehouse, but that's, that's basically what an ERP system is. You know, the, the idea is that it can, it can manage a lot of business processes in one spot. Often, oftentimes, though, I think that a given organization finds that the ERP system does some things well, but maybe other things leave something to be desired. So we have several business processes that go through that ERP system, but we have plenty of other systems as well in our company. It's sort of the danger of a one-size-fits-all approach to a broad problem like that is sometimes you're going to nail it, and sometimes it's going to be just a little off-center, right? Yeah, it always seems that way. One-size-fits-all, it, it, it rarely works like you help. Yeah. It seems to me. So one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you today is because you and I both share a passion for a specific way or a, a, a couple methodologies that are in common. It's, uh, came from a book, uh, by Lawrence Core, another guy that I interviewed for this podcast recently called Agile Data Warehouse Design. Now, I know that, um, you use some pieces of this. Can you talk a little bit about how that's worked out for you? Where, where did you find out about this and, and what was it that drew you to this different way of looking at data warehouse design? Well, um, I was drawn to data warehousing when I first got into my, uh, my job here at Simmer X. You know, like I said, I was working on that ERP system, um, we'd, I'd get tickets from people who needed help. And I found very often what they needed was a report or they needed data out of that system that was difficult to get to. Um, meantime, being new in my career, um, and knowing that, and my career, you know, at the time I, I, I, I stepped into my role, you know, SQL was a big part of it. So I jumped right into, I'm going to read every blog about SQL. I'm going to follow everything I can about SQL. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to understand this best I can. Um, and I want to be drawn to the SQL community, which led me to a SQL Saturday. And that's when I started seeing people talk about data warehousing and data analysis and things like that. So that's where the whole, where I first got introduced to the even the concept of data warehousing. Um, So from there, Um, I wound up at a tech fest and I, and you, I was in your session. Okay. Wow. That's the right. You had this book, this agile data warehouse design book. And, and it really clicked for me. I was like, that's it. That is the way to do it because even when, you know, I kind of, you know, I'd learn about data warehouses and I'd, I'd walk around and, and talk to my boss and say, you know, I think we need a data warehouse and we need to pull people together. We need to do this and not quite appreciating what a big undertaking that can be, right? Sure. And, um, you know, kind of like, well, I, that's a big one. We got a lot of other projects in place. I don't know if that's going to happen. But when I found agile data warehouse design, it, it lent itself to the way, um, our team operates, um, which is, you know, we consider ourselves an agile group, meaning we look for those, you know, high value opportunities and, and iterate quickly and, sure. And when I, when I looked at agile data warehouse design, even just the first chapter, the first chapter for me was like, like the recipe. It was like, I could go to management and I did. I shared it with management and I said, I want to tell you about how I think we could do this. I think you should reach out to this, you know, these, these pages of this book and, and, and it, it would click. And then I would, you know, we, I, I read further into it and I'd do some mock sessions of, okay, here's how we can think about, you know, the data that needs to be modeled and, and, and do a little mock, kind of a beam session as, as is described in the book. But, um, I found that it gave me the, like the language to, it gave me a way to express to management how we should do a data warehouse project. And it made it less scary because with the agile approach, the idea of being, you know, you look for value, you know, and you look at one business process at a time, right. And that was hugely, hugely valuable because it, it took that genetic thing when you think warehouse, it's, it's enormous, it feels enormous. And it took it down to say, let's just focus on a business process. It does change the game, right? It, it changes your perspective. I think it changed it hugely. Um, I really do, I really do. And, and lo and behold, you know, we wound up in an, I wound up in a meeting with, uh, you know, a senior VP who's saying, our lease, so, and, and lo and gas, you have lease operating expenses. That's the cost you incurred to just keep your well going. And he's saying we've got to keep on top of L.O.E. Why is this so hard? Why is it, you know, the number needs to come down and you start hearing people and how they struggle with pulling that data together. So I was then, I had this kind of foundation of explaining to my, my management about agile data warehouse design, I said, here's what we need to do. We need an L.O.E. lease operating expense data mart process. And, and it's going to have, we're going to, we can design dimensions that will lend themselves to, you know, conform dimensions that will lend themselves to all kinds of other analysis across the company. And I said, let's do this. Let's dive in and, and the executive, you know, the, the senior management wanted help, you know, on the business side, they wanted that help. And like, let's see what you can do. And without, without reading Lawrence's book, I don't know if I would have seen it that way. Yeah. And I'd read other books and I'd read, I kind of understood the fundamentals of Starskima and, you know, I was, I hadn't done it, but I was understanding the concept that this gave me like the language and the actual, I mean, like I said, almost like a recipe to get in there and do it. I've been involved in a lot of data warehouse projects. And it just has always felt to me like there was a real disconnect in the data warehouse best practices and the Kimball method that I'd, I'd learned and kind of embraced, it was missing something. And what I think it was missing was just this simple sort of translation from the techie back, the back room speak that we talked to each other into something that's more accessible to the business so that they can kind of be a part of what we're doing. You can understand it from the beginning. They can, they can see the value of it, rather than us just sort of waving our hands and screaming about conformed dimensions and periodic snapshots and those kinds of things. And they don't, it's not their language. It's not something that you would talk to your brother or your dad about and expect him to understand. And I think that where that's the big, one of the big values of this process is it, it kind of humanizes it, you know, I totally agree. He's a wonderful writer and he even has these great blurbs. I'm looking at the book. He has these great little blurbs, these sections that are like, now look, we're going to talk about verbs and why they're important. And he, you know, he breaks it down into like language of, you know, and to me, that is like the heart of data and data warehousing is like, this in the end is about communicating information. And like you said, so many of these, these, these books and things that maybe we've read before have been out there are a little deep in the geek weeds, you know, with tech talk and stuff. And what I loved about this book is he was bringing it to what I took, what it resonated with me is just plain English, plain, very plain spoken and meaningful. Yeah. Well, it's in the book somewhere he talks about how when you start thinking about facts and dimensions as more like verbs and nouns, it gives you a vocabulary to begin to tell the story of your data. And I just think that's so profound. It is profound. And we do, you know, we've, we've gone a long way with our data warehouse and we still do some training classes to get people acclimated to it. And, and I find myself using that kind of vocabulary like from Lawrence's book. You know, I felt like he gave me a frame of reference so that I can now explain that to people so it's not out of the blue. It's not weird geek language. It's more plain spoken. Or is there a technical book that maybe you, you look to beyond agile data warehouse designers or something that is meaningful to you? Well, Chris Adams in the Star Schema, the complete reference is a terrific book. You know, as much as agile data warehouse design by Lawrence Core was so helpful for, for really, for me to kind of get the, our data warehouse project off the ground, I found that Star Schema reference was something that I could take to a developer and pop it on their desk and say, here's how it works. You know, on it, it's a little more technical, but goodness, it is thorough and very well written, elegantly written, very, very good use of language. Well, I just love, I love Chris Adams since work. I love how he can start you off without knowing anything about Star Schema. And at the end of the book, you will be an expert. Oh, yeah, I mean, he draws the picture so clearly and so many great, great examples in Lawrence does this well too of you might think it should work this way. Here's why it doesn't, you know, he pulls you back from those, those kind of shortcut temptations. Yeah, it's really, really well done, which, you know, it's, it's funny, you know, sometimes in an organization, you look around and that's really the struggle as some of those shortcuts were taken in the past, right? It's amazing what you see, but I just felt like, you know, those two guys have some terrific books out there that would help anyone, anyone dive into a data warehouse project. I totally agree, man, totally agree. So there's two things I want to ask you about and they're a little bit less technical just to close out this, this chat. One of the things that I know is that you're, you're a big reader and I'm a big reader and I think that's another common theme that I see throughout our community is that we're just all sort of passionate about kind of putting ourselves into these new, you know, environments that might be fiction, it might be nonfiction, give me an idea of something you're reading right now or something you've read recently that you thought was especially good. Could be fiction, could be nonfiction, just anything that kind of sticks to you. When I say what was, what's something you've read that was good lately? What's the, what comes to mind? I just read a memoir from by President Obama's chief political strategist. Now, I'm not trying to put any political, whatever thing in here. But politics is interesting to me. I just, it has always interested me and that was really interesting to understand, you know, it's communication, right? You have to understand, you have to balance, you know, what are we trying to accomplish versus how does it sound to people, right? How does it resonate with people? That's communication and that's meaning. So again, I'm not trying to pull this into some political discussion at all. But it interests me how a professional in that position has to think about communications because, you know, again, as I alluded to earlier, you know, to me data is a lot, it's, to me data is about communication. It's about telling stories, right? Telling stories, that's for understanding why a story is going to work. If you don't understand why your audience needs to, what your audience wants to know, you can't really figure out a way to tell it to them in a way that's meaningful. And when we're doing reporting, when we're doing analytics, we're really trying to find some story that we can use to transmit the message of our data. And I think that any medium, any kind of, that's kind of brilliant looking at politics because it's a different way of telling stories, but it comes back to the same thing, doesn't it? I think it does, you know, and I look at that and it's not, it's not. not why I read the book, I didn't say this will probably help me in my job. But I think if you, we wind up gravitating to kind of our interests or what appeals to us, without saying, "Oh, I only have to write, I can only read tech books, I can only read, you know, sci-fi books, whatever, I don't know, that's just how I see it, is I try to open myself up all kinds of literature, there's another great one, so let me take it to the other side." Frank Lundz is a great, you know, Republican strategist and he has a terrific book called Words That Work and his tagline is, "It's not what you say, it's what people hear." Oh, wow, that's great. And he's a genius. And, you know, whether you agree or you don't agree with him, philosophically or politically, it's a tremendous read. It's a tremendous read because it's communication, it's influence, it's, you know, all these things that like it or not are kind of part of living in a business environment. I mean, I think anyone, you know, working with data, there's, it's part of a business somewhere. So that was a terrific book, too. So the last thing I wanted to ask you about was something that you and I talked about a couple years ago and it just always kind of stuck with me and I've wanted to follow up on it. Your daughter playing the School of Rock and Dallas, now that's kind of the, just about the coolest thing I ever heard. Is she still active in music? She is. Yeah. Yeah. She did a summer program down in Dallas at the School of Rock where they had some kids get together and none of them knew each other and they form a little band and they did it. They did a gig in downtown Dallas. So that was really cool. So she got to, she was the singer and kind of the, you know, kind of really the leader introduced all the songs. I think the other guys were maybe a little more introverted, but she was up there just owning it and yeah, she's still right. Huh? Just fronting it, huh? She was fronting it. Yeah. She was really the front person there. And what's her name again? Her name is Riley. Riley, okay. Yeah. And she is, she's 19 and she's just finishing up her freshman year at the University of Missouri where she's majoring in vocal performance. Fantastic. You must be very proud, dude. Oh, I'm very proud. Yeah. She's terrific. She's, she's great girl. Yeah. Man, that's great. I love it. Well, I think we're going to go ahead and wrap it up. I just want to say to the folks out there, thank you for listening to this episode of podcast, your data. New episodes are going to come out every other Tuesday. You can subscribe now to get episodes automatically on iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud or your favorite podcasting app. And you can listen to all of our podcasts right now up on our website at innerworks.com/pyd. So, signing off. Thank you, JJ. I really enjoyed this conversation. It's just such a blast talking about data and you've got such an interesting background. I really appreciate you calling in, dude. Well, thanks for having me. It was great. I always enjoy talking to you, Tim. This is a great podcast. By the way, I've listened to all the episodes up to this one. They're just terrific. You guys are going to get interesting. Thank you, man. Thank you. Okay. We'll talk you later, man. All right. Take care. Goodbye.