Publicis Media Luxe: Making Media Moments

From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends, you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing podcast for luxury brands. I'm Ann J and today we're talking to Karina Minolas, luxury brand media expert for publicist media lux. Hi Karina, thank you so much for joining us today. Hello, I'm Jay, hello Natalie. Thank you for having me. It's really exciting, it's my first podcast. On my favourite subject, luxury. Okay, so obviously we know you quite well by now, but can you tell our listeners a little bit about the role that publicist media lux plays for luxury brands at the moment? For sure, so publicist media lux is in the traditional sense as the media agency, right? With the full service, we do everything from the strategy to activation, but what is our expertise is, and of course, in luxury. It's kind of understanding is a very specific category, so understanding the luxury category takes a bit of time and I think an expertise of people who work in there and is also getting into consumer mindset and very often we work with completely, let's say, put one percent of the society, you know, when we talk about the ultra-high-net-versa-dermy results and if you get into the kind of the mindset and what they read, what they watch, etc, and how to communicate to them as opposed through the media channels. I suppose also there's a level of having to consider the brand as well as you're doing that, so you're considering your consumers, yes, but when it comes to luxury brands as well, I mean, these are brands that have spent decades kind of honing and refining who they are and what messages they want to put out there and their look and feel and things. I suppose you have to work, you have to dance on a fine line between both of those things, right? Absolutely. And the heritage is incredibly important, the brand image is important, it's understanding of each individual Amazon's values, the expression, the creativity and how we then connect to the type of customers that they are after, you know, so it's an interesting, very interesting job for sure. So you've been working with us quite closely for quite a while now, which has been a delight and we work alongside you with the likes of LVM H own brands as their media partner. When you're planning campaigns for those brands and your other premium brands that you look after as well, are there special considerations that you need to make that differentiate luxury brands from more accessible brands? I know you mentioned that, you know, we're talking to the top 1%, or perhaps even less for certain brands, but what do you take into consideration when you're purchasing media for them? Well, absolutely, for sure you have to take it very kind of step by step, there is a lot of considerations that will, as I said mentioned earlier about the kind of my own heritage and what they stand for and the values and the creativity. But also when you look at the current media landscape is so diverse and there is always new opportunities, it's heavy digital, there is the technology developing, you know, it's like, "Hey, hey, hey, all of the buzzwords!" And you know, like there's so many things to consider and there is, it's very tempting as a media agency to jump on the media first and say, "We've done it first!" But actually you have to be very careful because you have to approach every space and think about the brand. The authenticity is very, very important. If you come into space, say gaming and you're not connecting to the audience that is in the gaming space, you can have 10 times more worse impact on the brand than it would be like if you're not touching that space because if you're not relevant or you're not authentic, you're doomed. Similar is a lot of like, "Hey, I've filters, we've seen a lot of executions, for instance, or I don't know if you've seen like on the towers, you know, like some, you are filters or what." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, there is a lot of things happening. It's kind of all of the noise and some brands do it well, but sometimes it comes across very gimmicky and that's again, you just don't do because you're getting and you think about how you protect them is on foremost and almost, you know, so it's kind of valuing expression. It's interesting because, you know, yeah, you might get and talking of the AI generated stuff like, yes, it gets a lot of kind of clicks and you generate a lot of press around it, but it's almost acting, I guess, in contradiction to this brand that's been so carefully crafted for decades, you know, all press isn't good press for these brands, I don't think. They've built their brands for so long by being selective, so it's a very fine line to embrace new technology, but not step away from the kind of craftsmanship that they've spent so long cultivating. It's almost that infamous word of viral. These brands who would not have typically hunted out of virality status, who would have actually instead spent time kind of crafting these things. Now we're seeing a lot of these sort of AI, CGI generated digital first campaigns, and we saw it from the likes of Jacques Amou, then we've seen it repeated multiple times. You see the Maybelline mascara, did you? You know how many people ask me if it's actually real? You know how deep-felling they ever prove the tone with the. I don't think anything, but yeah, it's amazing. That's the thing, it's a stunt. It's almost, dare I say, an easy stunt for these brands to do, and it's actually kind of a throwaway thing now, so it doesn't feel like it's well thought out, and we're seeing a lot of brands doing it now. I think Jacques Amou was cool, but then there was too many, as one of the first adopters, absolutely. Justin Bieber's just done it in collaboration with his fashion brand Drew House and Adidas, and they've just gone live with another one. It's almost kind of a. It's too much. It's not unique enough now to go viral. It's not wow enough. I suppose for Luxrubrans, it's a question again, and I keep on banning about, and I'm so really sorry, you're going to be sick about hearing this word, authenticity, right? And this is again, there is a lot of debate currently happening about the fake outdoors, we call it, you know. For some brands, he has his creative, viral, moment, talkability, tapping into some of the audiences, and also you don't have to spend all of this money on experiential, right? You raise that. You just do your filter brilliant. It's gone live. Everyone is happy, but actually what is real, what is connecting? You know, if people start thinking that someone is doing it continuously, is there any value in that? Yeah. And that's kind of the discussion that we're always having with our brands as well. So you mentioned the rise of digital and how a lot of things have gone a lot more digital of late, specifically with social performance marketing activity. Have you seen a significant shift away from traditional mediums like print and TV and outdoor? Well, in short, yes, but in a long answer, print obviously have seen a drastic decrease in spend, it's backed up by circulation, decline, etc. But the digital print and the way we look at it is a publishing is still growing and there is an absolute need, especially for the luxury clients to be in an environment that is trusted and still have got amazing creativity, quality journalism and all of those things. You know, when people look at thinking, why is still in Vogue, why is still in Harvest Bazaar? They're amazing titles, they're amazing institutions. If you look at the likes of FT and the Times, they are very successful with the paid for digital models. Again, it's like in the world that we live in and there is so much misinformation and various sources actually to have some credible publishers is incredibly important and they line to our luxury values as well, in terms of the expertise and the quality environment and the creativity those publishing brands offer. When we talk about say TV, they're just like, we always argue internally about TV, like I love the argument about it, whether it's dead, whether it's lie. Oh, you're professional. Oh my God, I mean, I must, there is a heavy caveat. I'm of a generation that probably grew up with a lot of like viewing of TV, etc. So it's, it's, for me, it's like it's an evolving medium, but when we look at the landscape, it's so fragmented this day. It's okay, no one sits in front of TV. I mean, they still do, but like in all the generation now and probably you look at the numbers of the linear viewing and it's declining rapidly. And with those viewers, those people still viewing, I read somewhere that it was 85% of those are double screening. They've got their mobile phones at the same time. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But there is, there is a fragmentation as I said, there is a move towards the broadcast world, you know, the shifted viewing, the, all of the other channels that we watch these days or the partners like Disney Plus, the Amazon Prime, the Netflix, etc. Like I don't know about you, but I've got about the gazillions of subscriptions to everything and everything. Between Eppelair, you know, the days, etc. And choosing the content, but when it comes to the video space, I would say, content is king, right? And this is where, when you look at the video strategy overall, it's very important to think, how we're going to reach this people, you know, what is, like, where are we going to tap into that? And let's became much more complex, previously you'd buy ITV channel 4 Sky, you're done, it'll drop down, right? Now you have to think, oh my god, there are so many other touch points, you know, from YouTube to, as I said, to Amazon, to Netflix, you know, seriously, much broader landscape, however, and without sounding like I work for Thingbox, advertising, but I'm A huge advocate still of TV being able to attract huge viewing figures. If you look at the number of viewers that say, "France vs England quarterfinals in 2022," it was about 21.3 million from top of my head. Where would you get this audience in one hit? It's engaging, it's emotional, it provokes connection with you. When we looked at the trade-tests, it's in Tufinalia. Oh my gosh. You watched all of that, right? Oh yeah. You haven't. That's amazing. I'm not as amazing, sure, right? 6.9 million viewers of Tufinalia. That's double the amount of season one. Wow. And then, of course, you all would have heard about ITVs and Mr. Bates versus the post office. Yes. So we watched that. And this is not even like so much about the number of viewers that it pulled. It's more about the reaction that it caused. The real events happened 20 years ago. And it's pretty much flew under the radar, right? They were fighting the legal battles and nothing like happening. And then suddenly it took ITV to bring that to life to the viewers. And it's dominated. The newspapers for several days, you know, in a row, the government had to get involved. It's unprecedented. You know, it created such a strong response for public. And again, it's a testament to broadcasters to be able to form an influence. People's opinions, you know, public emotion. And I think it's reflected still like when I looked at it also, some of our spans, for instance, for a premium beauty category, you know, because when you look at the number of advertisers at Christmas, you still see a lot of fragments, right? And when you look at the total span versus say, let's take pre-COVID years, 2019, right? It's 10. She comes in the life before COVID. The life before COVID. It existed. But when you look at the ad span, it's an SNESN, okay, we trust SNESN sort of. Plus, so to 7%. Is that just linear TV or is that clearly used to be? It measures only linear TV. Wow, that's very impressive. It is. I mean, you can attribute it to multiple factors like inflation, like probably more brands advertising, etc. But nevertheless, it hasn't completely gone away. There is still an appetite for it. I think you get that emotional connection, like you've said, people are engaged when they're watching TV in a way that they're not so much maybe when they're watching social media or scrolling through. It's a different kind of relationship that you get. I'm biased because I like TV, but I personally don't think you'll ever see brands completely step away from it. I think that would be a real shame and a loss of storytelling. I think it's a platform where you can really tell your brand story in a way that you just can't get across in a six second Instagram ad. You can create the storytelling with the shorter form as well, but it's how cleverly you use the added maybe like teasers, different executions. But the immersive experience, I think, of the longer format. If it's a good ad, if you think about us all looking forward to the Christmas retail is added. Just thinking about struggling is going on the floor. Exactly. Things like that. So yes, there is still a very good case for that. So I mean, we've spoken a lot about TV and the fact that people are still watching it and that's great. I'm sure the AV team are still thrilled. But according to data reported back in 2020, digital users are spending nearly seven hours a day online. So although some of that is obviously going to be with double screening, whether it's on mobile or laptops, that is still a large portion of people's days. So as I said, ads consumed with traditional methods are definitely considered to be more credible. I know we've touched on that. It feels like a more trustworthy medium than online or social. Do you think with all this in mind that there's a significant benefit to an omnichannel approach? I think we have to think about ourselves as consumers of each media channel of actually engaging with the ads that we create. You create, guys, and we place them. If you look out throughout the day, two various media channels be face. In the morning, you might be commuting on the tube. You see the tube ads. You might be going for lunch and you see some auto screens in the evening. You might be watching some TV or Netflix or anything. You might be reading the newspaper on the way back. And each media will cause you to think or feel differently. And the way you would perceive the same ads in each channel will be different. Because you connect emotionally in a different level. You know, TV will have the sound on. Our door will have a huge impact. If it's a big beautiful screen, you know, it's visual, pleasingly aesthetically beautiful. You know, print again. It can be like something that you would read as a more information. Or it can be like a beautiful shot of the creative. And with that, I think there is definitely a need for omnichannel. And omnichannel comes with budget. That's the problem. Because unless you have a significant budget as a brand, it's very difficult to create that seamless experience across all of the touch points. Because, you know, ideally, I want to do cinema as well, you know. And all of the things. And the touch points are growing and growing. And growing, exactly. So you have to have quite a big budget to be able to execute that strategy. But if you have a smaller budget, I think you by default you will go to social media. And there is nothing wrong with that. Because social media would reach a huge volume of people. Right? It also provides you with different demographics. You know, you can find anyone from the elusive Gen Zs to all the generations. You know, and it's a multiple of platforms as well. It's not just metal or, you know, like it's Snapchat, it's TikTok, it's Pinterest. You know, there is a great choice of platforms. And all of them offer you something unique. The way the luxury advertisers produce the assets, they are amazing. And they fit for purpose to each platform. What I would say is that also you can see through your brand awareness, I suppose, from the full funnel campaign, you know, all the way to the conversion. And that's also benefit like that. Social media is great for that, you know, it's proven success. And if you drive the sales, it does work. It's a proven success for short term, right? I mean, there's no true way of tracking, you know, to a certain extent, brand awareness and brand loyalty over a long amount of time, right? And is that something maybe that we're even, we're forgetting to do in favor of this immediate instant data that we can get? It depends. I think you can, if you create, if it's a very strong brand and you've got a very unique message, then yes, you can create your audience in this environment, but you are competing in a much bigger landscape, you know, again, like there are brands with bigger voices, et cetera. So you have to think, what is that unique about you and how you can communicate? What is your brand awareness overall, you know? If you think about Charlotte Tilbury as a good example, I'll give you here, when they've launched as a brand, they were digital first. They've done a lot of digital strategy, like, and quite performance driven, you know, they did programmatic everything and occasionally they would do like a pop-up in stores, you know, to create a bit of an experience for consumers, but since they were growing in the success and their sales, their number one makeup brand now in the UK, they changed their strategy, they've introduced actually more traditional channels, like TV, they've tested TV, it clearly worked for them, because otherwise they wouldn't be doing it if it doesn't work for them, you know? And they do it every month, like for many, many years now, like where did you see a makeup brand doing like an always on TV strategy, you know? Yeah, but it must be amazing. Yeah, but they are number one brand, you know, and they do a lot of our doors, well, etc. So there you go, there is like, you can build it up in the biggest afterwards. Okay, so with that low investment kind of advantage of marketing through social media, as you say, that digital competition is fierce, how would you advise luxury brands to stand out against those competitors? With old and new and cut through the noise on these platforms? Well, I'm not the creative expert to start with, but we always recommend our clients to think about platform first assets, right? What you're producing as your amazing, beautiful content has to also organically fit that platform, you know? And think about how you use this experience and how they engage in business. I've also seen there is more development into kind of, again, 3D animation, you know? And it's beautiful when you see it in feed, you'll be like, "Oh my God, this 3D is unusual, so you notice it." Or in stories, for instance, a lot of a bit of a quiz, who loves a bit of a quiz, no? Yes, I love when the brands, you're like, "Guess the answer, like, "Well, ABC, another K-C-B-D-W-Quiz." So this kind of stuff also works, you know, we've tried for a couple of our brands, not called the name names, but, you know, and it actually does bring very good interaction rates and people engage with your ads. So I think this is the way of kind of standing out in a very cluttered digital space. In a kind of traditional and broader speak in terms, you know, of how you cut through the noise completely, you've seen there is a lot of exhibitions in the past years. Yes, we have attended a lot of exhibitions in the last year. There was, like, the Tiffany's exhibition, there was a bull-growing exhibition, there is currently, well, finishing almost Chanel exhibition. Nice. Your heard an amazing exhibition a few years back, you know? If you think about this all created, like, deeper connections with the brands, there were so many pop-ups at. Christmas as well, in Westfield they were like a dual pop-up, if someone was on a poor pop-up etc. So they all tried to create some experiences where they offer personalisation for the clients etc. So it is a cluttered space but you can stand out by thinking what is it that I want to shout the most about, you know, what I'm proud of and you do that. So lots of these brands like you say are doing exhibitions and I think that is a really, really interesting way of creating a relationship with the customer in a way that more kind of removed media doesn't, although that has huge benefits too. Another way that we've seen brands trying to propel brand sentiment is by harnessing celebrity popularity and with the ever growing rise of influencer collaborations we're seeing brands like Gucci and listing platform native influencers who can advocate for them. Do you think that's a trend or do you think it's an evolution of the previous celebrity collaborations? Do you think that influencer collaborations are stunts that are going to drive clout or do you think they're kind of the new here-to-stay celebrity collaboration? I think if you move away from the traditional kind of influence of what we think they are, a lot of them are moving into space of content creation and if you look at them as someone who is aligned with some of the brand aesthetics and creating amazing content that sees traction on some of the platforms like TikTok or YouTube or Instagram, you know. Then of course there is a way of tapping into those audiences, you know? The Dr. Brands don't really like to have that many, you know, different voices because they want to be selective, etc. but they do collaborate with some, for instance, Start Guy have a heard of him. He started, you know, creating his content as a parody about essentially himself and his friends, all right? Or a boarding school start, scanning about, etc. It resonated so well with some of our luxury brands because, you know, it is that audience, you know, they have quite high disposable income and they also quite light-heartedly taking some of the kind of ridiculousness of those situations of, you know, being in that environment with UberH people, you know, to the kind of extreme, you know? And it's an amazing content and he's got a lot of followers on TikTok and Instagram, you know? And that obviously forms some of the collaborations like L'Oripeana, he's always wearing L'Oripeana, he's very knock with the palm of her thumb, you know? And things like that. Or like, Francis Bajroin, right? I've never heard of this guy before until I went to this TikTok speech. And I was like, how would someone who is, like, drain-sporting is becoming such a sensation before she's collaborating with him? You know, like, what does it have to do with luxury? Like, in my kind of stupid head, you know? Like, I'm like, what is that has to do? But obviously, people are engaging with that, right? And then he's like, modeling now, etc. And all of those content creators are in the front seats of all of the fashion shows now. It's no longer just the editors of Wogs and, you know, other magazines. It's actually the content creators that Brent's collaborate with because they have as much influence as the editors of the very established publishers. Even celebrity ambassadors, we see a lot of, you know, of content now that's essentially paparazzi style ads. So, you know, streetwear kind of out of context, cand it, it's really. But a recent article published in the drama, actually, I don't know if you saw it, it was entitled, this was a killer, has fashion marketing become boring? It suggests people want fashion to provide a sense of escape is in through it, sort of lavish storytelling and creativity. But we hear all the time that high production value content doesn't land well on social platforms, which is probably why we're enlisting a lot more content creators or brands certainly are to create their content for them. But brand films feel essential to building long-term loyalty and awareness amongst up and coming young spenders. But it feels like there isn't a definitive answer yet as to where these films should sit for the best return and investment. I just wondered, I mean, how important would you say high-end brand films are for premium brands today? And do you actually think that these streaming services, the likes of Amazon and Netflix and things will lead to the resurrection of the traditional brand building, TBC format, you know, the big budget, gorgeous stuff, or have we kind of seen the back of it that a little bit? I always think about the consumer first. What kind of mindset you are and where you are currently in, like, in terms of the media space, whether you're watching TV, whether you're in cinema, whether you're on TikTok or Instagram. And I would say that I personally, this is my personal opinion, love longer format, there is something magical about that. Venshinel does number five, create something magical, you know, about the brand. When you look at beautiful long form of Jadora again, it's like so iconic, it's just connects with you in a different way rather than like a short term, kind of snap it 10 second or 20 second, you know, then you go, I'm here, like I know I've got the message, I've got it, I've got it, but the shorter form, I think, works on the platform that you essentially have shorter attention for, you know, and it's not to say it's a bad thing, it can be also equally engaging, because if you think about like TikTok, people can view content for up to like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, they can see it and watch all of the content there. So if you are engaging in the right way with them, and this is where I feel like sometimes it's a bit of a struggle for some of the luxury brands, to create the assets that would suit TikTok for instance, because, you know, it's releasing some of the brand guidelines and everything that works hard, you know, and like allowing someone to tap into your creation, it's not everyone's cup of tea, you know, like Gucci probably does it best in terms of because they're a bit more. - They're very successful. - Yeah, digital first, they allow a bit more creativity, but in that sense, it's, there is definitely, if you do it right, or even Instagram, you know, institutional assets, look beautiful then, and people love that environment, you know, when you talk to them and say, "Oh my god, my feet are so beautiful!" - It's a step very non-deaf. - Yeah, some social ads really well. - Exactly! It's statically pleasing, and you know, and there is definitely, like if you look about how Soulburn also like did, um, - Yeah, it's a great way to do it. - I mean, I'm still a little bit traumatised. - It messes with your head. - Yeah, a minute, but it's a great movie, it's so beautifully short. I think it statically is brilliant, but they've created also a lot of like short, like, form teasers to entice us in terms of like, "What have they done? Oh my god, oh, they're here, oh, here." So it's like, you can play with a short term to create a bit of a storytelling as well, and a bit of ease like a teaser, you know, like to pick your interest, essentially, but the long format is also absolutely has got the role engagement, especially in cinema. - Yeah, oh my gosh, it's still locked there for 60 seconds. - Exactly! - There's a go on, Sydney. - Where's all of the sound, the huge screen, and I'll come on, this is amazing, right? - So we did a moment at Hennessy ad for Chandon, like a few years ago, and I still think about it now as a 60 second ad, and it was so emotional and so all-encompassing that it does stay with you, like a long, I don't think just because I worked on it, but it was just such an impactful ad. - It's Shally's for me. Shally's coming out, Shally's coming out of that water. - On the big screen. - Indeed, really. We've spoken a lot about where we are, and we did touch earlier on how many things are changing at the moment with the advent of AI and AR that's coming in, and things are changing all the time. What trends do you think we're going to see more of in the coming years? Can you look inside your media crystal ball and tell us what the next big thing is? - Let me try to give you my best answer today. I think firstly, and just because I think there is a lot of discussion at the point of how AI is going to impact our lives on a daily basis, right? What does it mean from planning perspective, from creative perspective, right? How do we work together with AI without leaving ourselves without the jobs? Because sometimes I'm going to be replaced by a robot who will do the job much better than me ever. - No one can ever do it. - I don't know. No human or machine could do the job. - But you know, we spoke about, obviously, early about fake-out or etc, and all of that kind of emerging trends, but I think there's kind of whole AI debate about authenticity, about creativity, the Hollywood writers' strike, and because of that. Where does it leave us in terms of our future, and how we see the media trends developing? Very often, I even have AI chat box on our teams that always say, "Why are you ignoring me, Karina? Speak to me." I was like, "I don't know how I need anything to say to you. Go away." - And I was like, "Why?" But obviously, the media companies are trying to embrace all of that. A lot of people love it. They use various tools that they'd use to be disposable to either write. I was like, "No, I'm going to write everything myself. I'm not relaxing my brain, not relying on on the eye, you know, I'm going to make it myself, but a lot of people see it as a great tool and assistance. And similarly, when you look at the luxury brands, how are they going to adapt it? Are they going to use it more from personalisation into the targeting, understanding their customers better, making unique messages? It's all going to come and it's going to come very fast because it's developing and learning at such a pace. It's what we can't anticipate is consumer response to that though I suppose. I mean, we chat in this room, even on this episode, we've said authenticity a few times. That's how it's so important to consumers these days. If AI starts feeding into content that these consumers are going to be consuming, at what point is they're going to be pushback? There was, even last week, there was a brand in LA though, they'd used AI to enhance the image they'd added some flowers. And when this was revealed, rather than customers kind of reacting positively, the noise they got back on social was awful to the point where I believe they pulled the camera. Like it just, it did not go down well at all. So I do think it needs to be leveraged carefully. And I bet they were thinking we're actually saving the flowers, you know, from killing because they're not so far under for the photo shoot. It's a good thing, right? Totally. But yeah, it is a bit freaky when you see some digital models, you know, like they're not real people. And I personally was like, oh, can't, I can't, you know, I'm too old, I can't live in this world. I don't want to know who is like, like real and who is not. But you know, Elon Musk just recently announced the cheap, you know, the cybrox are here, right? And there are people who are embracing the future and think about it as a great development for humanity. And you know, like you have to be open minded and not scared about all of these things. And there is, but there is, I think there's going to be a lot of debate in that. And I think that's going to be the biggest, probably trend that we'll see how it kind of makes into our daily lives and our media planning and execution to what extent. Okay, let's leave the future for now before I have a panic attack. So I feel like everyone in our industry has that one campaign they've seen throughout their, their career that they just can't get out of their head. What has been the most stand out activation you've witnessed in your career so far? So I think there are ads that we are based on the creative, just all like creative. I still love Coca-Cola Christmas campaign. When I hear that, I think, you know, like, they're opening kind of, you know, I literally straight away. I'm like, the instinct works with me. I'm like, give me Coca-Cola now. It's literally in my head engraved, but that's like a strength of creative in terms of the actual partnerships or like amazing media executions. I can be biased here. I'm not saying it, but I love the duo, Herod's takeover. Oh, it's beautiful. It's just stunning. And it just, you go in like gorgeous, you know, from every detail, from a little exhibition to the ginger biscuits, you know, all everything just amazing perfection, right? And then from a creativity perspective, looking at Louis Vuitton Cosama campaign, you know, like, again, it was the way they've done the campaign and globally, you know, executed it as well. And not only in the UK market, even though it was one of the first ones to do like the takeover on Harris, it's just simple but effective. You know, you just create something that people will talk about. And like, it's, it's wow, it's media first. It's, it's connects with the artist, it connects with the brand. Then I don't know if you've seen the example, if you go like different markets as well, if you look at France, Tiffany took over with their reign or operagania, you know, in Paris. Yeah. And that was like, no one's done that before. It's again, it's a media first. And you look at them and think, wow, like, why have no one thought about it? This is amazing. Or in China, the twin towers, when Rouge Dior is well launched. I mean, it's again, some of the markets are so much more creative in the UK in terms of what you can do. So when you steal, come here in China, it was iconic. I remember being like, why don't I work on the Asian market? So good. So creativity, you can take a lot of inspiration from different markets. Obviously, the UK is a bit more regulated. It's sometimes computer says, no, but you can still do amazing executions. And I said, it's probably what I remember now the most. Yeah. Good answer. Normally we ask questions like that and people that are so on the spot, they can't think of things, but you had loads. I must say, hold on. I'll remember something else. There is more. There is more. I think the barberry take over of the tube was actually amazing. Even though it caused some interesting press when they were saying, are people confined where they're born straight or barberry straight? I was like, it's a born straight, right? But it's fine. They were confused. But it was on itself, it's like a two line with the fashion week and a British heritage grades. I think, great idea. Executed perfectly. And do you remember when projections become projections becoming popular? Yeah. Ralfa Ran did the first 4D projection on Bonstrate on their boutique. Oh my god, it was amazing. It was literally not only the 3D projection, but the 4D is like involving sound. How they've done it was obviously super expensive because none of the brands actually repeated it. They've probably spent all of their budget on that and back then. But it was just an amazing experience. And when you fight for the attention at Christmas, this is how you do it. But you're talking about it now, you see. I feel like a lot of what you've just said could be recreated through CGI and posted on Instagram or TikTok. I would not have nearly the same kind of emotional response that you've just given. Because there is a difference between the PR stand that you want to just post on social and create a lot of likes, right? Or actually having people passing by and seeing it in real life, staying and engaging. It's a different experience when you walk on Bonstrates during Christmas and you see all of the decorations and the lengths that the brands go to. They'll think "Why do you spend so much money decorating all of it?" Because it creates an amazing, like that magical atmosphere that people look for at Christmas. And you can't replace it with a CGI image, I'm sorry. Yeah, let's all do huge activations this year, Gar. You're being biased. Yeah, well, Marina, thank you so much for joining us. I feel like we could have done a three hour episode, to be honest, but it's been an absolute treat. It might turn out at three hours. Because I'm brutal or I just get. Thank you. So lovely. Thank you for coming on. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Thank you guys. Thank you. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us at Leap Interluxury podcast on Instagram to find out who we'll be speaking to next.