Pub Culture in Ireland

[Music] Hi, my name is Peter Moe, and I am from Tourism Ireland's Nordic Office in Copenhagen. Today we will be talking about an unavoidable must-do, something quintessential to experiencing Ireland, meeting locals, and synonymous with Irish culture. We will of course be talking about how to experience pubs in Ireland. Therefore, we are joined by Garvin Rush, owner of Dublin tour guide, Hi Garvin. Hi Peter, how you doing? Doing good. So Garvin, before we start, I'd like to know what makes you an expert in how to experience pubs in Ireland. So I've been tour guiding in Dublin since 2009, and I've been giving tours exclusively to private groups since 2015. So you can imagine that over those years I've received a lot of questions. People in small private groups tend to ask heck of a lot more questions than a group of 30 does. So I tend to get a lot of questions about the pub, and sometimes it's when I'm in the pub itself. In fact, one of the tours that we do is a private pub tour of some of the best local pubs in Dublin. So I know quite a few things. Cool. What do you do on those private tours and pubs if you don't mind sharing? Well, we just it's just observing the literature. No, there's a mixture of everything. Of course, we explore the great tastes of Dublin, the craft beer. We go to a Guinness pub, we go to a literary pub, and then we experience Irish traditional Irish music as well. So it's a great variety of things to experience during the pub tour. That sounds really cool. There sounds like there's a lot of different types of pubs. Why are pubs so important in Ireland? Why are there so many types? Why why pubs? Yeah, well, I suppose let's start with why pubs. Ireland is a very interesting place. It's got a very interesting and unique culture, and the pubs are a big part of that because way back in the day, the pub wasn't just your principal place for drinking. In fact, a lot of people come to Ireland and think the pub is where you go to drink. It's not. It's where you go to talk. And we do so much talking here in Ireland that we get quite parched, and it's just convenient that there is a tap of fear nearby. So this is what pubs are for. They're from talking. And in fact, if you would look at a pub, let's say back in the 1950s or even before that, you could imagine that it functions partly as a theater because before you see real-life drama and comedy playing out. And then it's also a bit like a cinema because you could hear stories, folk stories, and mythologies. It's a bit like a newspaper because you can hear gossip as well as actual real news directly from people. And then it would be a bit of a school for the younger adults. Or even kids because of course back then, it was kind of like a living room big enough to fit in several families. So you would have the younger generation learning from the older generation. So it's more than simply a place to go to get a drink. And of course, it has been where Irish culture in a lot of respects has survived in some ways even thrived. So it has become an important pillar for Irish culture. That sounds fabulous. I mean, you may be really want to go to a Irish pub now, especially now, I guess, during lockdown here. I know now that you don't just go there to, well, drink, you also go there to talk to the news is everything you said there. Do you also go there to eat or is it just chatting and drinking? Well, yeah. Well, kind of to answer your previous question, is there are different types of pubs and some of them are bigger pubs that actually have a kitchen where you can order a meal, you know, have your lunch or your dinner there. Generally, they're not open for breakfast. Some of them, some of them in Dublin are. But that's a type of pub. And then you have kind of your small traditional old man Guinness pub. That's really what you're looking for as a tourist, as a visitor. And then you have your, you know, your craft beer pubs. So of course, that's where people 20s or 30s or anybody who's interested in beer likes to go and sample all the small local delicacies, the small, small brews from all around Ireland. And then you would have pubs that would be, as I said, kind of a traditional Irish pub. Of course, then you have your touristy pubs and it's generally unless you're local, it's difficult to tell which is a touristy pub and which is actually a local pub, you know, so you have that. And then in terms of the food, as I said, you know, there are quite a few pubs increasingly, more and more pubs where you can get your lunch or your dinner. Whereas in the past, the idea was that you pub shouldn't serve food because, well, you need to go home to your family, because your wife is, you know, making the meal and you need to get back, obviously, this is in the past. So there was sort of a stigma against pub serving food because they would dissuade the man of the house from returning to his family, having said that those great pubs that you find in the countryside or even in the centre of Dublin, there's a great one called Crogans will offer something just to keep you going, just to tie you over, which would be like a toasted cheese sandwich. So Crogans is a fantastic pub in the centre of Dublin that does these toasted cheese sandwiches and of course it goes brilliant with a pint of Guinness or indeed anything. Pint of Guinness or a cup of tea, really. That'll be the kind of two options. I wouldn't like it to have it with anything else. Fair enough. And so that's your top recommendation for what to try in an Irish pub. Would that be toasted cheese? Well, if you can get a toasted cheese sandwich brilliant, but if you're going to a pub that actually has a menu, then you can get the traditional dishes like fish and chips. Of course, that was actually a British dish, but of course we have it over here. Bacon and cabbage. And then probably the most popular one is Irish stew, which would have been traditionally a lamb stew, but now it's a beef stew and often you'll see beef and Guinness stew. So it's kind of get the impression that we're nearly hooked up to Guinness 24/7. Actually, yeah. Then why do Irish people drink Guinness? Well, Guinness has quite different from most beers. I'm a big beer aficionado myself. I love Belgian beers. I just anywhere I go, I love to try the local brews. But Guinness is quite a bit different. Guinness has this thickness to it. It has this consistency to it. You don't drink it the same way you would drink a pint of cider or an IPA, let's say, where you would sip it. Guinness, you don't really drink it for the flavor. It's more so for the consistency or indeed the aftertaste that you get. So you don't, as I said, you don't take a sip, but you take a nice big gulp of it, and then you set it aside out of your line of sight. Well, obviously not behind you, but to the left or to the right. So it doesn't get in the way of the conversation you're having with the person in front of you. So this is why Guinness is a brilliant Irish drink because, as I said, the pub is for enabling conversation principally. So you're having a conversation, you take a big drink, put it to the side, then you're back engaged in the conversation instead of looking at your pints and thinking about when you get to drink more of it. So it really helps conversation. And of course, after talking for about good five minutes, you do get a big parched bit parched and it's the best time then to satiate that thirst with a great full creamy pint of Guinness. Obviously, don't drink the whole thing, but some people will finish a pint of Guinness in nine gulps, eight gulps, seven gulps, some extremists would say, or diehards, some of the traditions would say seven gulps. But that's kind of like Guinness is a bit special, a bit different from the other ones. Okay, so I'm really painting a nice picture there. I know I'm a Guinness, but I've got thirsty myself. Yeah, but what else can you try? I mean, there's bound to be more to a pub in Ireland than Guinness. Yeah, well, up until really the mid-90s, mid to late 90s, there wasn't much choice as far as beer was concerned. You did have Guinness and you did have the big guys, big traditional ones, many of which were going since the 17th of hundreds or early 1800s. And, you know, since the mid 90s, of course, partly led by the US, we have the craft beer revolution. So there's a lot of new craft beers and ciders. There's new whiskey distillers that have popped up. And thankfully, there's also a big surge in the gin making industry. I love gin. So yeah, and it's great. The great thing is like if you wanted to set up a distillery, you do have to wait at least three years before what you have in the barrel can be termed classified legally as whiskey. So, you know, that's three years of waiting. So a lot of the companies make gin, which obviously can be much quicker you don't need. Three weeks about from a fermentation start to bottling, I think. No, no, no, no, no, not. And I haven't made gin. I'd love to try and make it though, but I do love gin. Do love gin. And do loves craft beers and cider. I haven't really got to grips with whiskey, but I'm getting there. It's so nice. And it's a bit more sweet Irish whiskey. It's not as pts. That's more relaxing to drink. Three, if you wanted to kind of simply say what's the difference between Irish whiskey and American or Scottish whiskey? It is, if you just compare the Irish and the Scottish, Irish whiskey tends to be smoother. Most Irish whiskeys don't have that pt. turf taste and they tend to go down easier. And there's a few, I won't get into all the details about Irish whiskey and Scottish whiskey, but there's some great Irish whiskeys. Green spot is a lovely one, if you're not too sure about whiskey or which one you'd like, that's a lovely one to start with. Obviously, if you're buying green spot, yes. Yeah, okay. And you have another great whiskey called Slain. So it's from Slain County Mead and they make their whiskey using three different types of barrels. So they mature it in three different types of barrels, one of which is a sherry cask. So that's a slightly sweeter whiskey. So that's a lovely one to start on as well. And then in the presentation is there? Yeah, they're really tasty ones. I'd love to mention more whiskeys, but it's short of time. Flap beer wise, if you're really into your craft beer, there's a brewery called the White Hague and it's doing some really innovative stuff. It's creating a lot of amazing beers. So it would be, in my opinion, the best brewery in Ireland, if you're looking for something very interesting. But the great thing is that. No, that's up in County Slido up in the northwest. So it'd be a bit of a trek to visit that, but thankfully they've been rather successful. So you can find their brews in a lot of pubs in Dublin and other cities from London. But the best thing would be just to go and ask the barman, just to ask the pub owner, ask whoever's there, can you recommend a great beer? Or do you. The question would be, do you like beer? I'm not recommended. Oh, it's always good to have a reference point there, yeah. I get what you mean. Let's say we've had our beer, how do we pay? Is it paid directly or do you have tabs and do you tip? Yeah, well those are great questions. They're pretty important because it, you know, coming into the Irish pub is a different environment isn't it? And you're not sure whether you're supposed to install yourself in this seat or go up to a waiter, find a waiter, does this pub have a waiter? In Ireland, typically Irish people, well they want to get the beer as soon as possible because conversation could attack you and leave you very thirsty so you don't want to be parched. So Irish people go right up to the counter and order their beer and then generally take it and sit down wherever. So it's handiest just to order and pay in the one go and that way no one forgets. If you're a local obviously you can have a tab, kind of be trusted but, you know, the experience in Irish pub is such that the conversation might take you and seven hours later, you know, you don't want to be asked, here's the final bell, here's the, you know, 36 beers you order, you don't want that kind of situation. Of course, in Ireland people, as I said, they don't go to the pub principally to drink. So you won't find much drunk in this, I don't say much drunk in this Irish pubs. People handle their beer pretty well, partly because traditionally people would have had a drink, you know, every day or at least a few days a week, you know. So I'll give you an example of the tipping answer. So if you were to go up to a bar man and order three bottles of Heineken or while you're Danish, so let's go with Karlsburg, three bottles of Karlsburg and he opens them and he puts them on the counter and says, you know, that'll be whatever 15 euro. Then there's not much of a service involved there and you can tip them if you want, but generally it's not expected. Conversely, if you were to order three pints of Guinness and the bar man says, go and have a seat, I'll bring them over to you and, you know, carrying three pints of Guinness is a bit more difficult than carrying two, let's say. And the great thing about Guinness is it's actually, it actually goes above the glass. So it looks like you're getting more than a pint. So the head, Karlsburg made from nitrogen oxide instead of just carbon dioxide, like most beers, the head has a dome shape because of the thick, creamy head. So yeah, if he comes over with properly poured pints of Guinness and sets them down in front of you, doesn't spell them. And then maybe even tells you a joke and a little story, then there's a service, there's an experience and you can tip them if you want. So just to kind of think of the service, if you've got a waiter there, if there's food being served, then it's typically the same rules as in a restaurant, right? So you're tipping 10% if everything is fine, 15 and more if the server was a good laugh, I actually, you know, knew a lot about recommending beers or, you know, whatever. There's been extra good service. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so 10 to 15% for actual service and then for over the counter, no service expects it. It's really good to know. Do you actually imagine something there? I've heard that you shouldn't just go up and order Guinness and take it. It takes a bit more time to order Guinness. Something about the perfect pour or perfect pint. What's that? Yeah. Well, Guinness have a particular way to pour their pint. So they instruct the barman to pour the pint in two parts. So they'll pour the first part, which would go up to roughly around just a, just a bulb like the Guinness sign. So really about two thirds of the way up the pint glass. And then set it down, set it kind of, well, in front of you, but not close to you, if you don't mean, put it on the bar, basically. Yeah. So you shouldn't grab it then. No, they'll leave it there for roughly about a minute, two minutes, or if they're busy a bit longer, or if they got nothing else to do a bit shorter. And then they'll top it up. And so what is the official reason from the Guinness company itself is that the first part of the pour, you're getting just Guinness, right? Guinness and carbon dioxide. And the second part of the pour has Guinness carbon dioxide and nitrogen oxide in order to give it that head. Oh, yeah, that lovely foamy top that kind of leaves you with a mustache. Yes. Well, that's the aim. Everyone has to drink it in such a way that you get a wonderful mustache, you know, the lovely, the lovely white yellow foam just braces the top of your upper lip. And well, not the top of it, that would be a really deep pour, but your upper lip nonetheless. So it's important to be patient. And this is one great thing about Guinness. It kind of teaches you patience tells you to wait. You know, good things come to those who wait. It was one of their slogans and one of their ads. And just wait. And then you'll get it. And then of course, then you have to wait. So it's not just the case of, oh, it's been fully finished. Now I can drink it. Then you have to wait for it to settle. So for all those gas bubbles to exchange to such a degree that the bottom, the main part of the glass is black and the top part is white. Right. So you have to wait until it looks cloudy. You still have to wait. So by this state, you'll get, you'll be pretty thirsty. You'll have earned it by that stage. You can always have to, you can already have the first part of your conversation there. five minutes or something. Yeah, it sounds like before you're ready. So I get where you have to order up there straight and directly. Yeah, yeah, as I said, you've already caught parched. Fair enough. So at what time would you recommend going to the pub then? Like what time of day or week is there any. What's the best time to go? Well pubs in Ireland do not stay open very late. So you'll definitely need to be there roughly around 10 o'clock if you want to have, you know, a few hours in the pub. So that's an important thing to remember. So you're generally kicked out of the pub before one o'clock and sometimes with some pubs and some days long before one o'clock. So you're not going to spend the whole night on there, right? That's a different story. But you want to get there early-ish, right? And then it's going to be lively. There's going to be a good bit of, you know, noise environments, a lot of great ambience. But one of my favorite times to go to the pub is shortly after two o'clock. So this is when people have come and had their lunch and gone back to work. But remaining in the pub are people like writers, right? People that don't have a typical job. And yeah, amazing to be there in the pub at two thirty or three o'clock. And there's nobody in the pub except you on the bar tender and you can just hear him rattling the glasses. And if it gets really quiet, you can hear echoes from last night's conversation coming out of the dark wooden panels in the pub. So that's a real magic time, especially with the afternoon sun coming in through the dark or even, you know, some windows that are brown stained glass windows and they're bringing in this incredible light. So that's a wonderfully quiet time. And it's it's some ways like a church. You do get into this some sort of a meditative state because it's quieter than it should be. So you feel, you know, you hear your thoughts and some creative juices flowing within your head. So that's a wonderful time for writing down some notes, taking some creative ideas and jotting them down on paper. Indeed, into your phone, but of course, be great to go to pub just with a piece of paper and a pen. So that's the good time to be creative then that sounds really good. That just sounds really lovely. I really, God, I do have to go to a pub as soon as one opens. But you mentioned there that there were so early issue, you said that you normally also like to go to a pub. So that's not the two o'clock, three o'clock thing. That's when about six o'clock I'm guessing. Well, as I said, after two o'clock is kind of if you want to have that experience of just being in the pub in that silence and just try to soak in a silent atmosphere, which is, you know, something to appreciate in itself. And then you've got dinner time, you know, we generally have dinner roughly around six o'clock here. So rather early and then people go to the pub after six o'clock. So if you want to have, if you want to chat to a lot of people really, you know, after seven p.m. After seven p.m. And then that's good tip. And how do you then approach an Irish person? You don't want to chat with them. This is very important. Of course, it's one of the best things you should do in Ireland when you come and visit. You have to talk to the people because we're famous for conversation, you know, because we have all these conversation stations called pubs, sprinkled around the place, as I've mentioned. But we're also famous for wit, right? So this ability to tell a joke and to engage in banter as it's known. So a typical experience for a visitor would be if you go up to the bar and you order a drink and the fella sitting beside you there who has been there for a few centuries looks like he says something to you. Now, if he is a few centuries old, you're probably all going to understand what he's saying. But let's say he is quite comprehensible and he said something. Now generally, it'll be a way to test the water with you. So having a sense of humor and Irish is very important. So he would say something to you that will might, you know, you're kind of step back a little bit and you're like, well, he said that he insults me. So the key here is not to get insulted. You may feel slightly offended, but always come back always retort with something that is witty or equally offensive to the guy, right? So this is this is very important kind of insulting each other because in Ireland, the person that insults you the most is your best friend. And that's how you know he's your best friend, right? That's how you gauge. Oh, he saved my life one time. Oh, it's that's man of my arch. No, he insults me the most. So he must be my best friend. So there is a kind of insulting each other is a determinant of endearmate, right? It's a good thing to be insulted. It's worse than nobody gets. But it's clever insults. It's not. Yes. Yeah. It's nothing brash or vulgar. It generally be something witty and kind of subtle sometimes. It's not a long time. And light hearted or? It depends. Friends on what type of day, what type of the booties, what kind of mood he's in. Okay. So just if you go up, just prepare to just just be aware that that could happen and be ready, be ready. Be ready. Okay. And if I wanted to approach someone myself, would that be the same way or? Well, it depends on who you're, who your approach and so if let's say if you want to start a conversation with someone who's who's drinking what looks like a lager or what could be a craft beer and you want to want to chat to him, just ask, you know, what beer you drink and can you recommend a beer? Or if there are no demands, say, you know, what type did you get here? Just start the conversation like that. Asking for recommendations, of course, is something that inebriated people love, love, they love hearing that, right? Because like, oh, yes, I can recommend loads of things for you. I'm very confident. So that's what I would suggest. That's a good tip though. Do you have any other tips for when people visit Puppet in Ireland or anything they should be aware of? Yeah. So if you're going to a pub because you saw an advertisement, that's probably a bad sign because the real local pubs generally don't need to advertise. So if you're in in particular Dublin, you can get great pubs outside of the temple bar area. There's really only two pubs in the temple bar area that locals visit. So don't feel like you have to go to the temple bar area. There's great pubs everywhere, you know? So something that's kind of down a little street that just kind of fades in, you wouldn't notice it. But you know, when you see it, you're like, oh, wow, I could have walked right past that brilliant. I'm going there. And when you're in the pub, of course, order something Irish. Don't just get the thing you get back home, you know? Have an experience, have an adventure. Expand your horizons. Exactly. Yeah. Try something new. You're visiting. And the great thing is that, you know, it's one of the very few native industries we have. So it needs your support. So think about that. Get something Irish. You know? Interesting. Yeah. I mean, of course, what would you, what would your personal recommendation be for what to get? Oh, what's like what's your favorite thing to get in up of? Well, I think it depends. If if I'm in a pub with a great choice of whiskeys or jeans, like darky kellies, there's a great pub. I'd order one of them, something I haven't tried before. And what I tend to do is if I'm having a whiskey, I'll put a few drops of water in it. And I'll also have a glass on the side because, well, I mean, it can be too strong for your palate to drink something that's over 40%. You can't really taste all the subtle flavors within that whiskey. So that's what I do. And, you know, sometimes I'm in the mood for a cider or sometimes for a beer, if I'm in a great old man pub, I'll order a Guinness. If I'm the first in the pub, I'll never order a Guinness. This is the whole thing about the taps. So you want to make sure there's a good hundred pints coming out of that tap earlier in the day before you order your pint. So that it flows better. Of course, this is partly, this is mostly folklore. This is just what people say, you know, so whether there's sides behind this or not, we don't really care because it makes great story. And it's all about that in the pubs. That's right. Yeah, you got to be able to tell a good story and have a laugh. And what would you recommend that people learn as an Irish word for pubs? What's the what's the word that you need to learn? Well, of course, the most important word is sloncha. Sloncha. Sloncha. Yeah, so I like think of the word lawn. Of course, I have no problem remembering it, but just think of the word lawn. Now I had an accent front of it and you got slon. And then start to say the word church, which is somewhere you should be instead of the pub maybe. But just don't go past the sloncha. So ch-church. Yeah, yeah. Sloncha. Sloncha. So if you're practicing like that a few times, you'll have a very, very good way to do it. Yeah, because if you see it written down, you're not going to remember it because of course it's spelled in Irish. So remember that way of saying it. And of course, it's the Irish word for cheers. So when you raise a glass and you head it to your colleague and you say sloncha. Sloncha means health, which is hilarious because you know, in Ireland we do so much drinking to each other's health that we're the healthiest country in the world. Not true at all. Okay. That's partly a take on one famous quote from Brandon Behan who said, I spent all my health drinking to other people's. All right. Actually come to think about it. You mentioned literary pubs. Is that a big thing in Ireland? Is that what is a literary pub? Well, so I mentioned that pubs are one of the few traditional native industries that we have because of course Ireland was rather poor country. And Ireland, you know, people kind of think of Ireland when they think about maybe they think of music and they think of literature and poetry maybe. And this is partly because obviously we have a great musical tradition. But in terms of literature, if you are a creative type, if you are a budding artist, if you are living in 18th or 17th century Netherlands, then you might become a painter, right? But in Ireland, you know, all you could afford was a pen. You couldn't afford all the paints. You couldn't afford the canvas. So you got a pen. And so a lot of people who were artistic found their voice through the medium of writing. And the pub of course has kind of become linked with a lot of writers because for some people, a lot of people, the drink enables the free flowing of ideas. It lowers your inhibitions. So it can kind of release some of those creative thoughts. Interesting, yeah. And we have a few pubs in Dublin that are directly linked to writers like Patrick Kavanaugh was a great Irish poet. So it'd be a great experience to look up some Irish writers and just kind of, you know, not read all their works, but just become acquainted with their name and what they did and what time they lived in. And then go to a traditional pub in let's say Dublin because of course Dublin being the the biggest city. It's where a lot of these writers congregated where they developed a community together and where they would meet each other in the pub. Yeah, of course that makes sense. So if then people want to go to Dublin and well go on a tour with you, where would they find you and like what can you do on a pub or not on a pub tour but on a tour with you? Like what tours do you have? Yeah, thanks Peter. So the website is DublinTurgey.ie and there you can see a few of our tours. We do sightseeing tours ranging from three hours to five hours to eight hours which you know the longer it gets the more diverse it becomes. So believe it or not eight hours flies by. That's what people say at the end of the tour. We have theme tours like the pub tour. We also have a museum tour so we visit the National Museum, the National Gallery and the National Library which are three of the most underrated visitor attractions in Dublin. Really? Yeah, they're not as visited as say they're going to storehouse and the book of Kale. All right. Yeah, of course it's the cathedral and this is generally because they're free. So because they're free they're not spending a lot of money on advertising. So this is a great tour to really bring visitors into these museums to show them the highlights without boring them you know. So it's not going to be an in-depth look at the particular techniques Jack B. H used on this painting. It's more about showing you the highlights and on this particular tour showing you objects and artifacts that relate to Irish history. So in the National Gallery for example there's an amazing painting that every Irish person who's gone through the educational system knows it's the marriage of strongbow and ifa and it's just this you know epic painting that shows really the turning point in Irish history. So it means a lot to Irish people. So one thing I'd love to do is kind of explain how what that means to Irish people and so you can appreciate it on a different level rather than just saying oh that's interesting you know. Yeah so you get a bit more of a standing and feeling for what it is. Absolutely yeah. So the tour is that we do it's not about the the information it's more about the the feeling because you know Google can just spread out the information tour guides have to know what not to say and how not to see it. Yeah and what they do say they have to construct it very well because you've got limited limited time and limited attention. Of course we of course that we always take a break during the tour so every 80 to 90 minutes we take a break for a coffee or a beer or lunch and yeah so we have we have those tours we have a tour called Sites and Pines which is brilliant if you're coming with a group where half of the group wants to just relax go to a pub have a beer and enjoy their vacation their holidays and the other half of the group wants to go explore and and be a tourist through the touristy things and see the city. So this keeps everybody happy because it's four hour tour we spend the first hour or so exploring the sites then go to the pub and for people that want I talk about things like the Irish language or northern Ireland and these are quite heavy topics to talk about they take a while to explain so it's much easier to to get that in if you're sitting down in a cozy pub with a with a drink in your hand. So it works on a lot of levels so that's the the sites and pines tour and then we also do tours outside Dublin private chauffeur driven tours so you get a driver guy who takes you either to county Wicklow in the site or to county Meeve in the north so just a short trip out of sight Dublin there's no need to go to the far end of the country and back again in one day that's that's a lot of traveling you know it is a small country geographically in all terms of the physical size of it but there's a lot there and so you want to spend time and my advice is obviously if you're coming from Europe it's very easy just to come for the weekend and spend your whole time in Dublin but it's an even better idea to spend a week or two rent a car and go along the coast particularly the west coast as as you know very well Peter we have the wildest romantic way that stretches from the north of County Dunning all where I'm from all the way down south to county corks so that's a wonderful drive it's on my list things to do I have to say but listen here I think Garvin that was amazing thanks for a brilliant introduction to Irish pubs and or pubs in Ireland I should say I'm really really hope I can go there soon I mean you have me too me too cold and still going on so I'll become yeah just out of reach so to speak yeah but I look forward to going there and we might even catch up over a beer or we're pint in in a pub in Ireland if you want one day absolutely and we'll chat some more thank you very much Garvin it's been a pleasure thanks Peter you