PT. 2 - How To Build The Bikini Competitor Physique With Coach Andrea

Hey team, welcome back to the show. Today we're getting into part two of building the bikini physique with coach Andrea and Natalie's kind of here for like participation as well, Natalie and I are both here for participation. But lastly, we've talked about basically training program design strategy, what it takes to get there, priority muscle groups. So definitely go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. Basically, the beginning physique is about symmetry from the top to the bottom. We want plenty of glutes, delts, slats, small waist, good posing is also important. So today, we're going to dig into nutrition phases and what if I don't want to compete. So Andrea, from an nutrition standpoint, what phases of would you say are usually needed to build this physique over time? Pretty much just like with anybody else that is looking to progress their physique, we're going to go through probably multiple series of building and fat loss. There may be other phases that are required in there that are a little bit more person dependent like a health phase, especially like post contest, a health phase. But for the most part, it is going to be going into a fat loss phase, getting lean enough to be able to see some muscle definition and give us a long runway to build muscle. And then an extended time in a build phase focused on growing all the muscles that we talked about last week. Yeah, really not any different than the other golf physique. It's just our progress in towards your golf physique. It is just we may need to get leaner eventually in the pursuit of getting on stage versus like a lifestyle goal. Anything else you would add to that? Natalie, I feel like that's pretty simple. When would you say in somebody Andrea, somebody needs to spend more time in a building phase rather than dieting? If they're already relatively lean and need quite a bit more muscle, which I would say is going to be most women that are in this position thinking about the Keeney competition. I really think of what Janai who by the way has made his same progress. Like her goal both you shared the other days crazy. But like she came in, she was already very very lean. Of course, we talked about her before like her fit model competition, how well that went. She's playing in a competing right? Yeah, she's thinking about the Keeney this time. I was going to say it looks like you guys are playing on that and she's crushed it. That was crazy how much progress she's made. But she was already so lean and it was like what, like two and a half years, something along that I believe to get there and you spent so much of that time focusing on building like very very little time dieting that entire time. Yeah, pretty much fat loss phases have just been really quick. Like I would like to feel a little bit more comfortable going into the summer or this event. And it's been spaced out enough that we can use them that way and still make overall really good progress. But really like eight weeks at a time just to get a little bit leaner. And that also gives us more time that we can spend building with her still feeling good and not adding too much body fat. For sure. And again, if you're coming into your coaching and like your goal physique is something like Andrea or even like the clients you see compete. Same with like Patricia. Dude, you guys spent so long focusing on building like for anyone coming on board chasing a physique like that. Like it is going to be a significant matter time focusing on building. Cool. What if it's someone coming on board or rather why would he think so many when this struggle kind of can fit the building face when that's what would initially improve their physique the most? A lot of time whenever someone's focused on I want to compete. They're looking at stageling competition photos because that's I mean that's what everyone is sharing. And that's the look that ultimately you're going for. And so a lot of people are just seeing I need to be a lot leaner in order to have that physique. And also so many of us are scared to add any body fat. And it's it's uncomfortable going through a build phase because your stomach is more full of food. You're not your leanest. You might not feel your absolute most comfortable in a swimsuit or in your clothes for a while. But whenever you're doing this for sport, it is something that you need to periodize in a way that makes sense for that goal versus it's summer. So I need to cut sort of thing. Okay, okay. How would you guys define like how do we define a successful building phase? What are the biggest characteristics of that? That's a question I get quite often like how do we know if this phase went well? You are getting quite a bit stronger in the gym because that's typically your biggest indicator of your building muscle successfully. You should see your measurements going up. So glute measurement is going up, but shape is holding. And I would focus on that more so than a specific waist measurement or you know like a lot of times in more of a lifestyle body recomposition type of situation. We're focused on progression in the gym, but we're also really trying to maintain a pretty tight number within the waist measurements. Like we don't need that to really be going up all that much. I think in a in a build phase for bikini where we're really trying to push to grow as much muscle as possible, they're probably both going to go up realistically. Your glutes and your waist. You know, like we don't need the waist outpacing the glutes. But if you're looking at the pictures and you're still resembling a bikini shape just softer and your lifts are going up and your measurements around your glutes are going up, that's a really good indicator that we're doing what needs to be done in order to grow that muscle. So you didn't do like a two year recump to get where you're at right now? No, no, not at all. My waist went up quite a bit. And that's like if you suck at training, you don't have a lot of muscle yet. Yeah, you can recump for a while. But if you're past the beginner stage, you're going to maximize tissue growth like a true building phase where we're not just trying to recump the entire time is just going to be so much more productive. But yeah, anything else to add there Natalie? No, I think Nandria touched on this already, but I guess I'll draw attention to like if this is your goal, you don't need to be leaning out for every summer. Like I know that you were able to kind of align that with DNA. But again, like a quick eight week cleanup kind of thing to keep building. Like if it works out awesome and spaced at least a year apart. That was like if that can be worked out like incredible awesome. I love that for you. Like I you know, I don't think like it's an earlier stripes. You just have to like live in this, you know, body that's not leaner kind of thing. But we have to get out of that mindset of like every trip event and summer that comes up. I just, you know, or I will add to that too. We need to stay mindful of that you are chasing a very specific goal. So every single week your check-in doesn't need to say, I feel fluffy. We know, we know. Like you're not supposed to be your leanest right now. Those are both very good points. Getting feeling like you need to get leaner for every event, every trip. I see for so many people being like one of the biggest obstacles. Yes. I don't run into any early as much as I used to. But I remember in the past working with clients who would be like if I was like not we're not going to die it, you would kind of see they were like fall term with a plan and it's like not falling through as well. And just like not feeling the motivated real plan anymore. I feel it's good in my body composition. I just like not able to like adhere to that long term because it's like me so we're so ingrained with this like every time we go on a trip or an event we need to die a back down. And it's like man, we're kind of just perpetuating that same cycle. Like the thing preventing you from seeing the longer term and the physical improvements that would allow you to just feel good in your physique. No, no matter what like I don't think any of us feel as good in our physique when we're fatter versus when we're leaner. Like Andrea, you probably feel the most confident like a sports bra right now versus where you were six months ago. Probably right. But you also know what's not forever. And it's like I don't know, I just think the longer you like getting used to that like it's not like you got fat either, right? You want obese like you're still like very leaner fit. Uh, but I think it's like time working through all those phases. Like the more muscle you have, the more comfortable you are in that body because it is like still a better body fat body composition as a whole. I have something I've talked with a lot of clients about in build phases and like seeing that same number on the scale again that they had been at previously is I've pretty much been the a very similar upper number and a very similar lower number multiple times. But every single time I hit that upper number, I feel better and more comfortable and more confident in it because the composition is different each time. So it's not just that every time you see the scale going up, you're going to have that same discomfort that you did initially. I can take. I do handle building phases different for each client, as I know you guys do too, because every body is different. But I can make up a client example right now, my client Nicole, who is doing awesome in her build. And this scale has quite a bit, like at a quicker pace, but her proportions are consistent. Like we can actually see, like she's start first of all, she did super well in her fat loss face prior. So we were starting from a really lean spot. So anything that we've put on has been noticeable and visible. Like we can actually see the tissue growth. And she's been growing like very proportionally and like body composition is holding and is still very good. And so like that would be an example, like and she's also a little bit more advanced. And she's also more advanced to mature in her mindset in that like I don't think she's ever I've worked with her now for like a couple years. I don't think she's ever once said to me like I feel fluffy. She's like this is great. Like I love building. I'm like you do. Life is really good. But she kind of just embraces the phase that she's in. And it's it's been really cool to like see her mindset through that because like I said, like the scale, you know, has been going up a little bit quicker than maybe someone else like another lifestyle client that that I would want. But like all of these boxes are checked like performance is really good. Biofeedback is really good. We see the tissue growth like it's growing in the right place. So it just goes to show you that like it's going to look different for everybody. And when you're committed to a longer term build, like you are probably going to see some of these things a little bit more than that like every summer we're leaning out. And we're really only ever building for like four or five months. I don't think you ever really get that far in a build. Nor do you like get okay with all these things if you do only build for like four to five months. Right. I've never like my clients who have had just do the shorted building phases or never the ones who build a lot of muscle. Let's that person whereas like to be spent like 12 plus out of the last 14 15 months building where we really start to see very considerable tissue changes there. Mm-hmm. Cool. Okay. So let's talk about what if I don't want to compete and just make this a little bit more relevant to lifestyle clients. So if someone loves the bikini physique but never wants to step on stage, how would you say their approach should differ? The approach is going to be very similar because realistically if they want to build that same shape, they're going to have to kind of go through the same steps but they just won't have to get to the extremes on either end of that range. So they probably don't need to build to the extent that someone who is going to step on stage needs to. They also don't need to and probably shouldn't die it to the extent that someone that's going to step on stage needs to. You don't need to get quite as soft and you don't need to get quite as lean. You can kind of stay within the 80% mid-range. Yeah. I think as long as you don't want that same physique because I do think there are sometimes a misconception of like, hey, I like, okay, here's my goal physique. I want this person's physique but let's do it like the lifestyle way. Where it's like, I don't have the diet as hard but I still get there right or like, I don't go through the building phases. We do like recalphases instead but I still get there because it's like the lifestyle approach to this and it's like, well, that's not really how it works. We still are going to have to emulate the same practices they talk to get there. Anything that you would add to all that Natalie before we continue. If it's a lifestyle client who's giving us a goal physique and it's literally a stage photo, then there has to be a conversation about. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. And I think at that point, it could obviously we're going to have that conversation like, hey, this is a stage photo. This is not a person's off-season photo as well though. I mean, even then, okay, how did they build this muscle? You know, like maybe not the diet as far. It would be helpful to like for us to kind of counter with like, okay, let's pull up this person's Instagram profile. Let's look at what their off-season looks like in terms of like body fat percentage, you know, kind of thing. So it's like, okay, like we can kind of like chase like a similar shape. But the again, the extremes aren't going to be there. I would also add though, whenever that's the case, it's almost always a pro. And even even in the off-season, even though they are adding body fat and their softer, they don't look like any of us are going to look in their off-season. You have to earn that body composition in the off-season. For one, they don't have to add as much muscle tissue. Like they're just making little refinements. And then for the other, like they have so much muscle already that adding more body fat doesn't look the same. Like let's say they they add 12 pounds of body fat. That's going to look like so much less on them than it does on me because I don't have as much muscle tissue. And so I don't have as much muscle pushing out against that skin to still give me that shape that that pro does. So it's still so apples to oranges. I know I like always whenever I see my posing coach, like I actually saw her in Pittsburgh the other weekend. And I was like, Hey, I always ask her like, Hey, are you competing this year? And her, you know, like what are your plans? And her answer is always like, ah, maybe because she's always like just like 12 weeks away from from competing. Like and she has the ability to stay there. So like at any point her, her coach can pretty much just like pull the trigger and be like, Oh, okay, let's do. And that is not most people. Yeah, she doesn't have to plan it a year out like exactly. We're like years out, you know, like I'm going to build for two years and bring a better package. It's like we're doing small tweaks at this point. And like again, she can stay to your point. She can stay very late. So what parts of bikini prep or bodybuilding culture as a whole, do y'all think are useful for less self-as-eat development? I don't know if this necessarily is a lot different than what we just discussed. Anything else you would add there? Well, I do because we haven't touched on like obviously the build phases. But we haven't touched on like the way that they are bringing their consistency and intensity in the gym. But then also have such good structure with everything else in their life. And if you are lifestyle, you may not need to be as extreme as that person. But a lot of that you need to take and adapt and apply to your own lifestyle. Like we're meal prepping. We're taking our food places. We're not just like throwing caution to the wind at a restaurant because it looks good. Like there's still a lot of structure. Regardless of the face that you're in, it just is dialed up to a 10 on prep and dialed back down a little bit in an off season. But I would add though the adding intention, attention and urgency to your building phase. Like not to make any lifestyle client feel like manic or paranoid about like their build, when they're not dieting, like it's is not necessarily like the same urgency that we all feel in fat loss. Like where the stakes are just a little bit higher. But I think it surprises people how seriously they should be taking their build. Like just you know, we've talked through this on previous podcasts, but just because calories are higher doesn't mean that we're like hoarding them until the end of the night for that sweet treat or like we're not stashing all of that extra food around our training. Like because that's the most that that's the whole point of a build, right? It's not just like for you to live the good life. It's for you to fuel performance better and recover from it better. Yeah, so many people don't get far in a building phase because the kind of this approach is a period where we have more dietary flexibility and like sleepish-shitty training is fuel the worst like training that would still like hay work and succinctly missing training sessions throughout the week. We're not applying training feedback with our like the intensity of the days and there and that is a good recipe for us to just gain body fat and not build any muscle. To be wedding because like I'm not dieting. Yeah, yeah, and that's another very easy way for us to just like see the scale go up so quickly that again we do have to kind of cut the building phase short. So yeah, we have talked about that a lot as of late because it is with our demographic a big rate limiter for getting the physique is hey our building phase has to be more dialed in and we have to have more structure with like consistency to our fueling if it's like one to two sessions every week suck because either we're under-slaped or dehydrated we skip their pre-workout meal and we're talking about this like every week it's like man we're just not gonna get very far like this like we need those consistently quality sessions on the other end like I talked about this on the other side with clients as well like hey we're not always gonna get our best sleep we're not always gonna like things aren't always gonna be ideal and we're not soft we can still like push ourselves hard and have a quality session but yes very very important there was another point I was gonna make them ever gone um anything else before we continue from either all right what parts of all of this would you say the average woman who doesn't want to compete should not emulate I mean getting stage is not going to be necessary. Also, a lot of pros, which again is what people are looking at online, have training that you definitely shouldn't emulate because, like we said, they have enough muscle. I was just listening to Phoebe Hagen on a podcast and she said, "I don't need more size. I just need more density." It's like, "Okay, what does that mean to you?" Yeah, and so her training is going to look so different than mine where I do need a ton more size. If you see pros doing weird exercises or being hyper-specific with how they're doing their lateral raises or they've got the tens-unit patch things on their muscle when they're training, we don't need that. We just need to go in and train really hard with mostly compound movements and push hard enough because that's what they did initially to get the muscle they have. You have to look back to the same stage that you're in now and emulate that part of it, not what they're doing now as IFBB pros for the last five, ten years who now don't need that extra muscle size. We need a little corner of their glute mead to grow. That's not you, so you probably shouldn't do what they're doing. Or I'm doing bikini, so I just need to train glutes and I don't need an upper body session. It's like, "Probably you still do. You probably still need tissue everywhere." Yeah. All right, let's just do some rabbit fire. It's okay if we're repeating points here, but biggest mistakes when we make when kind of chasing this look. As a whole, what would you say? You all say everybody each give me one, what's the biggest mistake you see when a man may core trying to build the bikini physique? First thing that comes to mind. Ineffective training movements. Yeah, absolutely. Dating too frequently. Well done. Yeah. We covered training and mistake and nutrition and mistake as well. Okay. Nice. We're going to be in my next two questions. Super rapid. Mindset mistake. I would say really, I don't know what we discussed around building, dieting for every single of land or just not spending enough time building as a whole, trying to recomp your way into like a super muscular physique. Comparing yourself to a pro. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. Cool. Yeah. Which I would also say is what people tend to spill. It's been their wheels for years. Man, we were fucking efficient with that. All right. Let's discuss what we need to do next. So if a woman listening to this wants to achieve this look, how should she figure out what her next best step is? Basically, how does she know she needs to diet or build first? I heard someone say if you're asking that, you need to buy it. Really? Yeah. I chuckled because like if you're on the fence where like, should I build or should I cut? Like you should probably cut. Yeah. You probably have a little too much body fat. Right. Well, you know, again, we always talk about like, no, you don't need to get like stage lean right right out the gates or anything of the sort, but like making sure that you are in a lean enough place to start a productive build where you have a very long runway. Yeah. But we're just gonna have to back in three months like, whoops, you know, body fat, so I am. I would agree. We talked about like a Janay example. What's again, I think is more of the outlier. From time to time, there will be a client. Whereas like dude, you need to stop trying to diet. We're already so lean like we're just pretty, which wasn't Janay at all. But again, there's, I can, I know we can all agree we have all clients where it's like we're so lean in our perception how lean we are is like so far off from your alley where we need to spend like a very long time need more building. But I would generally agree. Yes. Go ahead, Andrea. Yeah. Or even that maybe they're not too lean technically, but they've spent so much time trying to diet that they're starting out already with high diet fatigue and can't stick to anything. And just kind of suck at dieting. If somebody already sucks at dieting, putting them immediately into a calorie deficit is just adding a layer of difficulty that they probably aren't ready for yet. And so maybe like a bit of a recomp phase or, yeah, I would say recomp not even a build phase in that kind of situation to get them to where they're more well fueled and can actually like push their training harder, learn to train and learn to diet and then go into a fat loss phase when they have that skill and they're a little bit more mentally like fresh and ready for it. And then I would also say how's their health? Like that's another barrier if someone is needing to go into a fat loss phase, but thyroid isn't in a good spot or their sex hormones are all low. Their digestion is all over the place. That's also not a great spot to start a fat loss phase. You're probably not going to be able to improve on those things outside of like a maintenance intake. But I think an important weight here though is yes, all of those things. But once we take care of all of those things, we're still probably going to want to get you leaner before putting you into it. Like that part's got to come first. Yeah. I would say in general getting someone, I don't like to be too attached to body fat percentages, but to make it general around 20%, body fat roughly is a good place for us to look at. Okay, we're below this. We're probably in a good position to just build from here. And again, that's very much the exception rather than the rule. For most people, yeah, we're going to need to diet down a good bit. And at the same time, those people typically are going to know how to train well enough or hard enough to really build muscles. So we can kind of add the same time as we leaner, teach them how to train. And then we kind of are in the sweet spot where okay, now we're lean. Now we also really have like, we're picking up the training, we can now effectively train. We're lean so like all of the like nutrient partitioning whatnot is in a good place. And we can see the tissue that you're adding like you mentioned with the call. And we have a really long way for long way for building. And again, we also know how to train well. So like this is going to be a fact everywhere from the start. So typically yes, I think like we are all in agreement, like get to roughly 20% body fat. And then from there, we're in a good position to build for a long period of time and probably spend a good year plus focusing on building from there. Anything else you'll would add there. For wrap it up in terms of like what we need to do next. Cool. I think then the last thing would be. I mean like work always go with the reneas analysis, reneas analysis with clients, right? And looking at where someone's body fat percentage is a big part of it. We touched on the training a lot already, but do making sure that we are assessing your training as well. I mean, that is a big that is a big variable with like more so the direction of the building phase, like how much muscle do we already have? Well basically just take date, like how far back, how far out on this timeline we are from like getting on stage if it's something that you want to do. If we're in a place where we don't have a whole lot of muscle, body fat is fairly high. We probably are looking at a good like two years plus of work together. You guys say it's accurate. I don't know if you have a good amount of muscle and have like an exceptional amount of muscle. Body fat is high. Cool. We might be looking at like just dieting down and covering that. Maybe we need to tune up with some areas, do another diet and we're potentially going to beat. But it's very variable. Anyways, hopefully this was helpful. Go ahead. But also like even people who are very well muscled don't always necessarily fit into a criteria. Yeah. You can have a lot of muscle but that doesn't mean that your shape is bikini, for example. So like even if you are relatively lean or very well muscled, like you might still really need like more glute or whatever. So more so curious. Yeah. Sure. Cool. Well, hopefully this was helpful. If you guys enjoyed the show, do it to each favor. Leave us a five star rating in our view. If you would like to apply for coaching with our team, hit the link in the show notes and we'll catch you guys next time.