פרק 1: איך מתחילים סטארטאפ?

[Music] What's up, Nitzan? What's up, Eran? How are you doing? What are we doing here? We're posting a new podcast. A new podcast? About what? About the start-up, but this time it's a practical thing to do, for those who want to start-up and get it done. And they're all on their way. How do we call ourselves? The owners. The owners, of course. We're the owners. Those who let us go said it would be a great start-up, or on the way to start something. Idiot. So we hope that it can help me start-up really well, and on the way. What are we trying to talk about in this series? About everything. To help the work, to find a solution, to find a solution, to save money, until you have a company and a big business, and at the end of the day, too. Okay, how does the start-up look? Let me tell you what we've been through in the past few years. My career, and the 8-1 classic, we grew up in the 8-1 technological community. And from there, our path was to start-up. When we got to know each other from all our travels, we started out in a real world. I was there for the next couple of years. We decided we wanted to build an Epsilon. We had a different idea before, and it wasn't that easy. I'd like to say a few words. Yes, so we started out in the world of use of DIM to ITEC. It was a problem that was really difficult and difficult. We decided to try and open it up in the future, so that it would be a more advanced approach. We're not going to get into it too much, but we believe that the problem is still difficult. But it's just that when it's also difficult, and difficult for us, we didn't see any difference. Or wine is very strong. And from there, we got to the Cloud world, which was also created by Epsilon. In the Cloud world, we also have a lot of RECA, or maybe even specifically in the Cloud, but building products for developers, building products that are much more technological, what is called. We use a lot of technology that is much more famous, and in the end, I would like to know about our related activities as founders. Yes, so as we said before, we built Epsilon four years ago, and it was a really great experience, it was full of skills, and a year later we decided to go to Cisco, and today we are working in Cisco, in the world of observability, also working with the developers, investing a little bit in startups, and working with the first developers, which is something that we are very interested in doing, and also bringing us together to do this podcast. I think that a lot of this concept is questions that we hear again and again about developers, all the standard things like how to build a go-to market, how to make money, what to do in the next minute, we found out that there was all the closing, and what to do in the future, to complete this podcast. So let's start. You want to start a startup. What do you do, where do you start? Today you are working here, what is the first thing you need to do? I think that one of the things that you always want to do is to get out of work, and there is this kind of concept that I will not be able to, that I will not have an idea, but I will not have an idea, because I will not be able to and I will not be able to save enough time, and in the end it will be more complicated and there will be a lot of people who continue to work in their work, because at the same time there is a problem, and they do not feel the danger to help, but our main goal as people who have worked on this is also to get out of work, and also after we have finished this work, that as soon as you get out of work, you move forward a lot, a lot more, and if you do not get out of work, you simply work on it a lot more time, until you get out of it, and you are in the best time I think that there is some kind of strategy like this, that I work on this for a few hours every day, and also in the end of the week, but if I go full time, it's not really P2 or 3 more than what I do, so it's not true, it's P100 more than what you do, the ability of the army to deal with the problem, to think 24 hours a day and not work all day, and then maybe children, and other activities, and in the end, in the last hour of the day, that already has power, and to think about this start-up, that you want to make, it's not good, you have to be fully minded about it, and that's risk, that's the first risk that you need to take. Yes, for a long time, and you don't need to be ready for a few hours without counting, even a year, but most of the time, it's something that you really need to do, it's possible. Another very important thing is the matter of money. In the end, you want to pay, most of the time, it doesn't matter that you don't work full time, you don't want to work all day long, you want to see commitment, and again, when you feel that it's enough for the Chinese, then to work on it for 100%. Now, we got out of work, not even out of work, there's the thing that everyone talks about, the most important thing, the co-founder of you, that you're going with him, it's like a dream, it's more than a dream, it's more your wife, your friend, how does it look for you, Nitzan? Yes, it's like a dream that you bring a dream or something like that. So the first question is why do we have to, or do we have to co-founder, do we need co-founder, and I think it's critical, I don't know if I was used to doing something without co-founder, but on the other hand, I do know some people who do it on their own, and it works for them well. I think it's mostly about my mentality, more than what I do, in the end, I can remember things that I do almost everything, but it's very difficult to be in that story for a long, long time. So, I know it's individual, I think it takes time to co-founder, because it's critical and you can change it. That's right. There's another question that's always been asked, in the end there are two co-founders working together, we need to figure out what's going on, to split the options, to split the rules, what do we do together that we're doing well, we need to build a group, not build a group, what do we do in this process? First of all, it's really hard to find start-ups that will take you from the beginning, there are several good ones in the country, and also abroad. In general, it's hard not to start building a group by hand, because there are all kinds of solutions, I don't recommend all the legal parts now, but what's probably going to happen is that we're going to build a group as much as possible for the future. Secondly, we're going to plan between the partners, because if someone, it's not going to be a problem, it's one of the reasons, and he decided to help with everything after you've already worked on something, you have to make sure that it's possible and it's less of a matter of who gets what, it's more of a matter of not talking about it. There's something good and everything is ready, and if he wants to help, that's fine. Of course, what you have to say is that from the rest of the group it's going to be fine, and the one who gets it done, I don't think it's going to be a problem. It's really hard to do something like that, I'm going to share a few stories of a founder who is one of the founders, and we have a problem that it's really hard to figure out if the founder is not ready to do something. Okay, there's a founder, we left the job, and what now? Now it's going to be the most difficult part, what we call "idation", what do we do? How was it for us? We left it now to Sabih Frishman for your interview. Yes, it's also important that you have something good in this group too. What do you say, how do you start? Do you stay at home with two people? How do you start? So I remember that we met at our first meetings, and our first date was in Shain, with Frishman Pinnat the king of the kingdom, right? And I remember that each one of us came with this kind of event, with all kinds of ideas, we remember that we talked about GDPR and we also talked about HRTech that we did here. We had all kinds of ideas and ideas. Now, there are two kinds of ideas, one of which is how to deal with these high-level ideas, how to talk about something that he's starting to do, and then, as soon as we have ideas, I think the part of dealing with really top-level ideas is a few things. One, you need to be involved in the business, you need to talk to people, you need to see the trends that are happening, there is Gartner Hype Cycle, that can give a little bit of direction for certain areas in the field, and it can also be a part of what you do at work every day. You come with work, you have your daily problems there, and it can also be part of and open them in a generic and effective way. Really, there are a few ways that people come together. There are two companies that have started to build a self-employed product, and in another company, and then it went to a company. There are these stories that they sound very amazing, and it's fun, but down to earth, our business really wasn't like that, it was much more methodical. We said, we need a good content that we can invest money on, because without it, we can't build a company and move forward. And really, that's one after the other. And it seems to me that in a company that has a few new companies in the HR world, and then it came to a very different world, the main issue that we came to, is that they chose something that you already know well and not to start building a new company from scratch, because that's how it is, it's so hard, so why bother yourself even more? The story of your success is very, very exciting. So anything that can help you, I remember, me and Nitzan are not in the company of HR, and they remember that they were the ones who asked us how do you actually know how to organize the right preparation for the same startup that we did, and who is there for you that understands HR and knows how to do psychotechnics and all the other things we didn't know about. And when you say everything, yes, I'm an advisor, yes, I'm thinking about it, I learned it, it's at least good. We came up with a idea that it's a way of developing, a way that we can use in a way that we understand how to work from the end. And one of them asked us, let's say, distribute the racing, do you know what the problem is? I mean, we're doing it ten years in a row, and we know what we can do and what we can't do. Yes, because you can see all the clear ideas that make money for startups in cyber, very quickly, because in the end, there is a problem. Many people feel that they need some kind of program that has a passion or something that they connect with, which is really important, but you have to remember what is the best program that you have a passion for and you got them out of the money, and you didn't manage to get what you wanted, because instead of getting enough and then you got a big and successful and the company went into a big business. What do you think of us? Let's stop talking about these things and let's not focus on the issues that are just more difficult in the long run. Okay, so we took an idea. In our case, it's really a serverless. How do we take something very high-level, something that is trending in the market and start looking to create something concrete? So you want to be ready in the market, to start understanding if it's a big market, in the middle of the market. If you don't have these things, it's really hard to figure out why we invest so much money in a server. So the first thing to understand, if it's really big, if this thing is going to be bad, or if it's going to be bad, you can't get rid of it. You can't get rid of one thing that's big, if it's just not. So start looking at if it's big, how big, how strong, really bringing in the first things. What are all these things? Yeah, so the thing is that I don't need to be more careful with the details in this question, because no one is going to make you ready for the terminology. But as a matter of fact, Godel Shook is a few companies, if it's called B2B, a few companies that invest in this kind of development for a year. And from there, you go and try to see how relevant it will be for you. So many times they say Godel Shook, Cloud is a lot of money. What is Godel Shook, Cloud? How much is AWS and Azure? How much does it cost to run around? You need to be a bit more specific and get rid of it. After that, you need to get rid of it so that they don't really care if it's not one thing or the other. Many times, I see in the market how much of Godel Shook, Cloud, is 150 billion dollars, and we are building a product for Cloud, so we are 150 billion dollars. And it's very realistic, it's like that. You don't own Cloud, you don't build any services in AWS. You need to think about it more. Sometimes you can get it based on the high level, like Gartner, Forester, and all those companies. But many times, you have to do something that usually comes to mind, saying, "I have a big profit, how much can I pay for a platform?" "How many big profits do I have?" "How much maximum can I get from profits?" And to start thinking about it, what's called a bottom-up, if I reach a point where it's significant. If you reach less than a billion dollars, it's a small profit. It's a profit that doesn't have any VCs, because you're talking here about your plan to collect all the profit, it's very difficult. Most of the prices are 100% of the profit, a small profit, 10% maybe less, so companies that invest in it collect a profit that is tens of billions, and say, "Okay, even if it doesn't have the best profit in the world, we will still be able to invest a million dollars here, and we will be able to invest in it." It's usually very intuitive, and if you feel it's hard to get this profit, then it's a small profit. Most of it is very obvious, and you don't even have to make a decision to tell how many VCs you have, and all of that is very likely that it's a big and big profit, and a very good profit. It's also connected to the why now, maybe now is the time to start a startup, because this profit is very big, very clear, very simple. So, to focus on a profit, to focus more on the world, the industry, the technology world, the industry you want to invest in, you still haven't decided what you're doing there. How do you decide what you're doing there? So, I remember in the past that we focused on server, we focused on all kinds of domains. In fact, we tried to accept it as advanced worlds, like containers, like cloud, and we tried to understand what ecosystems are born when this technology is born. So, there really is security, and of course, we started to look at all of them, to understand what are the domains, what is the current security, what is the size of each of them, and how do we actually tell a story that we are going to be the monitoring server, like Datadog has to be installed on the monitoring platform. In fact, we had a very, very clear story there. I think that the most important things that came after that, after they started to develop it, is to make validation, so maybe we'll tell you how it was in the past. We also created the first idea that we had in HR, and then also in the cloud world, we had a different idea that was connected to Emigration, in fact, we took the second application and added it to the new one. It was very good for us, it can cause problems, it sounds like an issue, it's hard to do on its own, and it was good for us, so we said, let's take it to the networks, and I think they say, in general, it's very good for us, it's not a good idea, we talked a lot about it, the way people talk, in a very simple way, from the devops, from the development, they said to us, we don't want that, we don't want to do this on the application, even if it costs us money. So it sounds like 3-4-5 times on the network, and you're not the only one who loves it. You know very well that your idea is not enough and you have to keep going. And that's weird, because you don't care about it, you care about it for a few weeks. Yes, when we talk, many times I see that it's a little naive, like, is it necessary for a creator to help you to make mistakes? Yes, of course, is it necessary for a creator to make mistakes? Yes, of course. But it's not really very good questions. The questions that I need to ask, and I'm going to read a book, called "The MAM Test", how to do an interview, because we're doing validation, and in general, to continue when we build the product, is to understand how the power today is in this problem. So, OK, I'll talk about the debugging and I'll be back in a minute. The good question is, what are you trying to do with it until today? That is, it's clear that everyone wants to make a better test, and we can come with a couple of time to make a test, and what is it, and so on. But what do we do today? Does it really matter to them? Because it can't be that we came to them from the sky and suddenly we opened the problem that there was a second week and everything was fine, and the point is that they tried to fix it, it seems like they saved some time, another point is, they tried to get a new client, I'm going to change the date, and I'm going to call the next client, and it simply doesn't work properly, because it doesn't belong to this technology, so when we do validation, we have to understand what is the state of power, where is it, why isn't it working, how much money is ready to invest in it, the money in my opinion is a very important question to ask in terms of validation. Yes, and I also want to think about it in terms of thinking about how it looks in terms of validation. So you want there to be a slide or two that says, we talked about these and that, they told us, this and that, and as you said, why don't we solve the problem today? What do we do that doesn't work for us today? And then it's actually very complicated, because a person who is down to power says, I need a solution like this, because what I have today doesn't work, and there's nothing more complicated than that, if you think about it, what power means is the most important thing. That's how you prepare yourself and the environment in terms of things. Many VCs also want to talk with them about the powers you have, and they want this reference from, to hear it from the first place, and not hear it through a quote, or through a tool, and it's really significant, so they don't necessarily try to implement the powers that you have done with validation, and they are willing to be more friendly powers, and to keep up with what they say. With validation, I see a lot that happens in Israel, we see that it's a small relationship, many times it comes with a lot of validation of many Israeli friends, we really have an Israeli ecosystem that is very, very strong in ITEC, for me it's a bit sad, that all the friends in validation are only Israeli friends, and only friends of friends. It's not just of course, it's great, it's good to control it, I think that what they want to see, or at least I agree with you, is what you have done. Have you been able to bring this American company, have you been able to bring someone from the neighborhood, have you been able to bring famous journalists, have you been able to talk with Netflix's CISO, have you been able to talk with more of your neighborhood in J.P. Morgan, it's important to be aware of these powers, of these potential powers, and not only that, all those who have come here, famous journalists, but the whole thing was a friend of a friend, because it doesn't matter if you have money, one day you'll have money, so what have you done? It really depends on the execution abilities, that it's good to see this to the extent that you know how to do it, but also at the end, there is a difference between the ability of a person to talk to you, that you came across as an intro, I'm doing fine, I'll talk to you in a minute, between someone who doesn't know you at all, and really uses what you said to him, and he wants to hear about the problem at the end of the day, what you really need to do on the scale later on. So I'm willing to bring some more information about it and make a change, but how do people get to all these people? I want to hear from someone from the United States, what should I do? It's really hard, because at the end you try to stop, there are two options, one is I'm not a different person, I just want to learn from you. The best way to do this is with Warm Cold Intro, that is, at the end, if you have a warm intro, you can say what you want to do, it's not a scale at all, and it's not a very good execution mode. So what I call a warm cold intro is before you in LinkedIn, before you in Mail, before you in Discord, or it doesn't matter where I need to get you, but I'll do it, it's very exciting. I'll tell you, Nitzan, I mentioned that you talked about Serverless Con in Tokyo about serverless troubleshooting, I would be happy to talk to you, because it's a very interesting point there. It seems, think about yourself, if someone was going to tell you, I read your blog, and I would be happy to talk about it, or I saw your address, and I would be happy to talk about some interesting thing, it seems that you didn't say no, so it's a way to do it in a good way. It's also a way for you to find a solution, so in the end you don't have to, 300% is enough, 20-30% will talk with you, and you can certainly find out where you talked in the news, who wrote the blog, who read my blog, and then in this session it's not that difficult to get contact with people like that. That's right, and then really to give you the time, part of the first, in my opinion, the first session should be a pure interview, not to make a comment, not to talk about how I'm going to treat you or what you're going to do, but I want to understand what your needs are, how you're going to treat yourself today, how much time you're wasting on this, if you're going to do other interviews, and until the end of the session, I'm going to start with the interview that you're thinking about, and you're going to see the fifth session, the interview, and I'm going to tell you what the interview is about, that we're going to talk about, that there's a lot of time for us to talk about the interviews, so now we're going to talk about the interviews that say, okay, instead of taking the interview do you think it would help you? So the first part of the interview is to see what we have, to focus on the interviews, not on the content, there's this process that you see a lot of time that can also work half a year or a year on content, and not go to the interviews, and get to something that works well, I think it's not relevant, it takes a lot of time, and as the society begins to grow, it needs to work, and then it needs to build everything up in a better way, so the best thing to be able to focus on is the kind of fiver or something like that to create a few nice interviews, and to focus on the interview, in the end, think about yourself, you really don't need to be so serious to understand how it works, or why it will be good for you, enough to understand its concepts, and to say, okay, when it will be like that, bring it to me. Yes, we had a very good experience, after we realized that from the beginning it wasn't a good interview, and we realized that the server was good, because we saw that there's a feature in security, development, monitoring, but what really helped us was monitoring and troubleshooting, and after like 5-10 interviews, we started to realize that it was a problem, because they were monitoring in a way that didn't fit to these new sectors, and then there was also a lot to be accepted to other big companies, like monitoring, that worked and grew, and of course it was big, so it was a really methodical process, there wasn't any issue here, but not more than that, and at the end of the process, we were ready to start telling the story of Ashka. That's right, I also remember that, I and Nitzan, let's say, were less experienced, and more good at code, and Nitzan started a serverless conf in Tokyo, to listen to the feedback, and I said, good, it's a good time, it's just me and the thought, I don't know how to turn off the camera, I know how to turn on the camera, but of course, as soon as we turned off the camera, we turned it off, but in this case, it was a bit too late, I built it in a way that I know, but in the same way, it could have taken me a day or two to turn off, or to ask someone to turn it off. Even though I don't remember, but we came to check, and we told them the basic performance, they, by the way, it was a really good performance, because we already have a kind of first-class performance, although it's clear that we didn't really use it, but where do you work? Do you work in a salon? Is it important at all? What do you do? I don't know how to deal with this, of course, not to mention the documents, it's very convenient for people, they can work in a salon, with this kind of training, you can also buy something in a local store, or something simple, just because it's a little bit more convenient, you can get used to it. Today, for everyone who has an office like this, a equipment that can work with it, with a lot of data, a lot of relevant information, I also bought a lot of coffee at the coffee shop, so bye. Yes, there is a place where you can work really early in the morning, we had an appointment, we had a meeting, but what I also see sometimes is that one of the founders is a full-time and the other is still working, so they work three times a week, and it's very interesting that there was an alignment and everyone was full-time, every day early in the morning, you also feel that if you don't do what you want at the time, you'll spend a bit of your time, you're much more motivated to move forward and get to work. We talked about a lot of things, in the end, in the end of the day, "Okay, I have to go now to work, what should I do in the workshop?" "What is the title of my name?" "A good workshop, an organization." Yes, so let's ask a few more questions about the idea of Gius, which is a big deal for itself, and also about the Gius workshop, and as far as I know, Gius has a very standard building, and we also have a small workshop in this matter, but we start in the workshop, because that's all there is, you have to take care of the workshop, it's a really good A-team workshop, the best that can be in any problem. In this part, you also need to make yourself better in the workshop, you have to tell why you are the right people, you are the best, your entire career is built around this matter, it's a bit of a hobby, but you don't have to do anything, you really have to feel it, you have to make the most of your life, and you have to create less of it, you have to create more than one, you have to create more than one, you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and you have to create more than one, and it seems to me that I have reached all the steps that are in progress. That's right. That was the first part. Yes, it was fun, and we will continue to do many more things. Thank you very much everyone.