PROOF They've Been Hiding UFOs For Decades

- For more than 60 years, NASA has shown us the universe. It's taken humanity to the moon, placed telescopes past the atmosphere, photographed planets light years away, and it has broadcast some of the most extraordinary moments in human history. But what has it chosen to not show us? Buried inside thousands of pages of mission transcripts, astronaut interviews, technical reports, classified documents, and newly released government files are incidents that have never been fully explained. Flashing objects following spacecrafts in orbit, strange lights moving above the moon's surface, and astronauts, military pilots, engineers, scientists, and some of the most highly trained observers on Earth describing things that they could see, track, and photograph, but they still couldn't identify. These objects didn't just show up once. They appeared during Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo missions. Individually, every incident could be dismissed as a technical anomaly, a weird light aberration, debris drifting outside the spacecraft, or a crew member misunderstanding what they're seeing. But taken together, is it possible they form a pattern stretching across the entire history of human spaceflight, a pattern of sightings, uncertainty, and even control? Because the question is no longer whether astronauts are seeing strange things in space. The question is what NASA believed those objects were. This is the story of NASA and their potential alleged UFO cover. So if you were interested in space and aliens, and extraterrestrials, and bizarre crafts, and things of the unknown in relation to space, this is the episode for you. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, and controversial stories from all time, forever, and for always. Yes, that is what I do here, is that I go on crazy deep dives and rabbit holes of all the most insane things I can find on the internet. Yeah. I consider the show some days as the sports center for conspiracy theories. I like to entertain all of them. I'm not a believer of every conspiracy theory, but in my opinion, every theory is fascinating. There are things in them that may be true, and it is that little thread that I'm chasing. So join me today as we deep dive on NASA and the alleged UFO cover-up. But before we jump into that, I want to say, I want to say a few things. First off, I want to thank you. Yeah, dude. I want to thank you for tuning in to this episode, because every time you click or comment or anything like that, you help keep the lights on in the tent, and you keep the fire burning here at the campsite. And now I also want to thank another dude, not just you that's listening or watching this right now while you're driving your car. I want to thank my pal Christos Palapakados. For coming back from Greece, I want to thank you for returning from your long odyssey away into the Mediterranean to join me back in this tent. We back, baby. Nice, we're back, Christos. No time to waste, okay? People don't want to hear about your amazing vacation. You're going to make us all jealous. So instead, let me just talk to you about NASA, all right? Now, I'm not like the biggest UFOs-are-definitely-here guy. I think there's something going on, and there's something strange that we can't really explain, but I am averse to certainty, and I'm never going to come on the show and be like, "Dude, there's definitely aliens." But there's something going on that I don't like that it's sort of being brushed off by many people within the academic world. Now, NASA, as you know, this is the, you know, these are space people. They do all sorts of cool space stuff. How is it possible that NASA could be doing space stuff and see a UFO and not tell us, right? This is the theory. This is the question that we're going to break down. I'm going to give you all the pros and cons, why people believe it, where it comes from, why some people don't believe it, and you can choose for yourself. Now, every Apollo crew went through some technical debriefing after they came home. Engineers sat them in a room, and they walked them through the entire flight. They go through how the suits will fit, how the thrusters performed, food, sleep, cameras, everything. And buried in all of this is a section that is titled Section 21: Visual Sightings. And that is where the weird stuff goes. It's not classified, it's not redacted. It's just filed between, like, miscellaneous systems, pre-mission planning, and right in the middle, here's all the weird stuff we saw. The Apollo 11 technical crew debriefing is roughly 500 pages of two volumes that is fully free to read. You can go right now to nasa.gov, and you can read it. And somewhere in the middle of a conversation about how everyone was sleeping, three men start describing an object that they can't identify. Nobody classified it because they didn't have to. Because if you're a normal person, you're not gonna read 500 pages of spacecraft telemetry to find one paragraph. But fortunately for you, I'm one of those weird people that had to look into it. And NASA never really has to lie about a coverup or do anything because NASA never conducted an investigation that would produce anything to cover up. But that doesn't change the fact that the astronauts saw something that they thought was weird. Now, one of the earliest sightings was around December 4th, 1965, when Frank Borman and Jim Lovell launched on Gemini 7. The mission was brutal. Two men, 14 days, inside a capsule roughly the size of, like, a Volkswagen Beetle. There's no airlock, no separate sleeping area. The men can't even stand up. And on day two, December 5th, Borman speaks into the mic and says, "We have a bogey." And the bogey goes off at nine o'clock high. Now, that word matters. Bogey is fighter pilot language, okay? As you know, basically every NASA astronaut, especially back in the day, they were all trained pilots. Now, he's using this term, and it means an unidentified aircraft, potentially hostile. That's the way you would use it if you were, you know, you know, at war in Korea or something. So once you identify it as an enemy, it becomes a bandit. Borman was a West Point graduate and an Air Force test pilot, so he didn't pick that word by accident. He picked it up at, you know, flight control. They immediately push back, and they ask the obvious question, "Is that your own spent booster, or is it an actual sighting?" Right, like, the boosters go up, and then they dislodge them, and they're floating around in space. Borman's answer, "We have debris up here. This is an actual sighting." And then he confirms, "We also have the booster in sight." So the booster that they're referring to is the Titan II upper stage, which separates from the capsule when they're in space. But Borman confirmed that what they were seeing was not the booster, I see the booster right here, and this bogey is just posted up right next to it. Now, Borman described the object as having hundreds of small particles drifting past it three or four miles out. He says, quote, "It's a brilliant body in the sun against a black background with trillions of particles on it. It's ahead of us at two o'clock, slowly tumbling." 61 years later, the audio recording was pulled out of the archive and posted on a Department of War website as an unresolved UAP case. But here's the part that gets skipped over in most of the retellings of the story, and I think it's important. Both men spent the rest of their lives saying they were describing debris. Not a craft, but debris. Neither Borman or Lovell ever became, like, UFO disclosure guys. Borman was openly dismissive of the subject, and Lovell went on to command Apollo 13 and become one of the most, like, trusted figures in the history of the cosmos and spaceflight. But this isn't just a one-time thing. The sightings continue to repeat on future space missions, and they kind of get weirder. Hey, real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed, and when you subscribe, you help the channel grow, and you stay in the loop with every new drop. Religion camp, history camp, and Camp Gagnon. Now, let's get back to it. So that takes us to the next story. July 1969. Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins, who is always left out. Shout out to Michael Collins, right? Justice from Big Mike. They were roughly one day out from landing on the moon. In the debrief, Buzz Aldrin says, "The first unusual thing that we saw, I guess, was one day out or something pretty close to the moon. It had sizable dimensions to it, so we put the monocular on it." Monocular. Not to be confused with binoculars. Monoculars. Now, the first thought was that it was the SIVB, which is the third stage of the Saturn V rocket. That's the thing that pushed them out of Earth's orbit. Kind of the same thing that happened with the first story. But the crew had to be sure, so they called Houston, and they asked. However, they weren't expecting the answer that they got, because mission control told them that the SIVB, that booster thing, that detached, they said it was 6,000 miles away. So now we're starting to think, okay, what am I looking at, right? That's what all the astronauts on board are thinking. Armstrong described it as L-shaped, like an open suitcase. But when Buzz Aldrin went down into the lower equipment bay and put the sextant on it, it looked like an out-of-focus cylinder. Michael Collins, the other astronaut, he said, "You could see this thing tumbling, and when it came around, and on, you could look right down in its guts. It was a hollow cylinder." They also claimed that when you adjusted the sextant focus, the cylinder turned into that open suitcase shape again. So Collins' verdict, verbatim, was, "This thing is really weird." Now, to be fully transparent, the crew themselves talked down the experience. Armstrong pointed out that the object was right at the resolution limit of the human eye, and that without knowing the range, you can't really know the size, and without knowing the size, you can't know the range, and vice versa. Buzz concluded that the cylinder shape was caused by the sextant, like, by the actual tool that they were using to measure it. And Collins said that he suspected the thing came off their own spacecraft. Maybe it's, like, a panel, or, like, part of an antenna, or something. Fun fact: Collins said he could guarantee that it wasn't one thing. Kind of funny. Initially, they thought maybe it was, like, their urine drop. So Apollo crews vented wastewater and urine into space, where it instantly, like, flash froze into a spark. And it was, like, a big, sparkling cloud of ice-pea crystals. entire mission, which is very funny. Like they're going up in space and they're like looking at Earth and they're like, Earth is cool, but look at these pea crystals. I mean, these are gorgeous. So several UFO reports from space missions could almost certainly be frozen astronaut pea reflecting off the sun. Just a fun little fun fact. So Apollo 11 isn't proof of anything, of course, but strip it down to what's in the documents and you're left with this. The first crew to reach the moon spent a good amount of time examining an object that they couldn't identify. They ruled out their own booster with mission control saying it was thousands of miles away. They couldn't agree on the shape and they said it definitely wasn't pea. And to this day, it's never established what it was. But this isn't the only strange thing in that debrief. A few pages over from that section in the same sort of debrief part, the crew describes something else. Flashes of light going off inside the sealed cabin in the dark with no obvious source. Now, this phenomenon was never confirmed on this specific mission, but it actually happens so much in future space missions. NASA eventually did an experiment to figure out what these weird lights were. And we'll get to that in just a second. But all of this has been in the file and it's been in the file since 1969. But as we said before, basically no one is going to go through 500 pages of space data to find one piece of commentary. So just a few months after the Apollo 11 mission, Apollo 12 took off in November of 69 with Pete Conrad, Dick Gordon and Alan Bean. Now, Bean is at the Alignment Optical Scope, which is the instrument that astronauts will use to like lock onto stars and like orient the spacecraft and where it's supposed to be in space. And the cabin is dark. So his eyes are fully adjusted to what he's staring at. And he starts describing what he sees, these particles of light and these flashes and objects moving in different directions. He says, quote, some of those things are escaping the moon. They really haul out of there and just press off at the stars. Now, it's weird, not because it proves anything once again, but because of who's saying it. Alan Bean was a Navy test pilot who later became a professional painter, and he was by every count one of the most grounded and like you could say least mystical people in all of the astronaut core. And the most likely explanation is boring, right? The spacecraft's water boiler would sometimes vent and throw off ice particles that sparkled in direct sunlight. And maybe, you know, Bean knew that, right? He probably was aware of this phenomenon, but he wasn't certain. And no one in the transcript tells him what he's looking at. Now, the last time human beings stepped foot on the moon was December of 1972. Gene Cernan, Ron Evans, and Jack Schmidt, who's actually the only professional geologist to ever walk on the moon, fun fact, they took off on Apollo 17 and ended up recording not just one incident, but three. The first event is classified as the 4th of July. In this story, the crew reports a field of extremely bright particles and these like weird angular fragments tumbling past the spacecraft as they maneuver. And compare it to the 4th of July. Literally, that's how they describe it. They're like, it looks like fireworks, which is obviously where it gets its name. But this time, mission control engages and starts working on the problems ASAP. Now, this whole event probably has a boring answer. Ice, paint flakes, thermal blanket debris, like the aircrafts while they're going through space, they're shedding materials constantly. But note the behavior. They reported it and the ground investigated it. The second incident involved a flashing object and is more difficult to explain than like obvious debris coming off the spacecraft. So, Cernan, he described a bright object at some distance from the spacecraft that appeared to flash at regular intervals, suggesting that they may have been rotating and reflecting sunlight as it moved. The transcript says this, it is a bright object and it's obviously rotating because it's flashing. There is something out there. Whoa. The crew and mission control discussed whether it could have been like the spent SIVB rocket stage, but there was never an official confirmation on what this was. And then, of course, there's the third incident. While Cernan and Schmidt are literally standing on the moon, Ron Evans remains alone on the command module and reported seeing two flashing objects at the same time. And while Ron was seeing this from the command module, Schmidt described something that he was seeing while standing on the moon. He says it's like a brief flash that appeared to come from the lunar surface near the crater Grimaldi. Many scientists think that this was a genuine scientific mystery. It's known as the transient lunar phenomenon. For centuries, astronomers have have like reported these kind of things, these brief flashes, these glows and changes in brightness on the moon. And many people have different theories. Some have been attributed to meteorite impacts, while others may involve gases escaping from beneath the lunar surface. But the phenomenon is still not fully understood. What are these weird light aberrations that are happening on the moon? But one other thing that happened on Apollo 17, and this is a weird thing, but it's a weird thing. This is a weird one, because it actually concerns a photograph. In the images recently released in the documents, there's a frame showing a lunar mountain range. And there's this enlarged section of the photograph that highlights three small bright lights in a triangular formation. You can see the image here. The government states that there is no consensus regarding the nature of the anomaly. And that preliminary analysis suggests it could represent a physical object, but they're just not certain. The image is strange, and it's been released, and there's no clarification on what it is. But there is one phenomenon that NASA has actually solved. Like I said, as Buzz Aldrin was lying in the dark with the window shades up, he kept seeing pinpricks of light inside the spacecraft appearing a couple minutes apart. Remember that story? He tried to explain it away as like, oh, it's static electricity from my actual sleep harness, but it didn't hold up. Armstrong actually stayed up on the last night and logged around 50 observations in one hour. Aldrin's description in the debrief is one of the more unsettling things that an astronaut has ever said out loud. And this is the quote. It did give you a rather funny feeling to contemplate that something was zapping through the cabin. There wasn't anything you could do about it. And then Armstrong, with no data and no instrument, guesses the answer. He says it might be some kind of atomic particle passing through them. And crazy enough, he was right. Hey guys, we're gonna take a break really quick, because if you know me, you know I'm constantly trying to find the perfect level of stimulation. Yeah, I want enough energy at the beginning of the day to go to the gym, be a good dad, and then record a three-hour podcast about like ancient civilizations or the Knights Templar or something like that. So, you know, I like a little caffeine, but if I do too much caffeine, I can start to hear my own heartbeat coming through my chest. And that is where Mudwater comes in. Mudwater is a coffee alternative made with functional mushrooms and adaptogens with about like one-seventh the caffeine of a regular cup of coffee. So, you know, I'm constantly trying to find the perfect level of stimulation. And you're gonna get that morning ritual. 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The frother alone is absolutely worth it. That's right, up to 43% off with the code camp at mudwtr.com. Go to mudwater.com slash camp, and after you check out, make sure you tell them that the good folks here at Camp sent you. It really helps out the show. Hey, dude, we're gonna take a break really quick, because I want to talk to you about something. You know the entire premise of this show is basically me going way too deep on something. Like, I'll read two books, watch a documentary, and then talk to someone for two hours, and then three weeks later, I'm like, who is the CIA guy talking about mushrooms? And that's what I love about Plot. The cool thing is, I don't really think of it as a voice recorder. It's more like a searchable second brain for conversation. It looks just like this. It's tiny. I can use the Plot note pro during a conversation, or an interview, or a research session, or even when I'm doing a stand-up comedy show, and afterwards, it gives me a transcript, summary, key points, and action items instead of me having to go back through two hours of audio recordings. And this is the part that I actually love. I can literally ask it something like, hey, what did Tim Hogan say about the treasure of the Knights Templar? And instead of me scrubbing through an entire podcast trying to find it, Ask Plot pulls the information back out of the conversation for me. It's insane for what I do and for my life. And if something important happens while I'm recording, I can tap to highlight that moment so it knows, hey, pay attention to this. It also works across Plot desktops. So all of this stuff can live in one place instead of being scattered across voice memos, and notes, and podcasts, and a bunch of Chrome tabs. And because these are actual conversations, the privacy side is so important. Plot says that your data isn't used to train AI, and they meet standards for GDPR and HIPAA. Obviously, if you're recording a conversation with someone else, you should get their consent. But if you're someone who has a lot of conversations, or meetings, or interviews, or stand-up shows, check out Plot. They've also got a 30-day return policy, so you can actually try it, see if it works. And if it doesn't fit for you, you can send it back. Check out the link in the description and use the code G-A-G-N-O-N. That's Gagnon for 10% off. That is Gagnon at checkout in the description below. Click the link, and you're going to get 10% off Plot. And let's get back to the show. Those flashes that they were seeing inside the actual capsule themselves, those were flashes of cosmic rays. Yes, high-energy particles from outside the solar system striking the astronauts' retinas and optic nerves directly. They're not entering but radiation is passing through the eye and then being registered as light. This is a crazy phenomenon and it only happens outside the protection of the Earth's magnetic field, which is why no one on Earth really has ever reported it. And unlike the flashing objects, NASA actually chased this one down. So on Apollo 15, the crew sat blindfolded in the cabin for an hour, calling out every flash that they saw. On Apollo 16 and 17, a crewman wore a device strapped to his head called the ALFMED, the Apollo Light Flashing Moving Emulsion Detector. And this basically has emulsion plates covering the front and the sides of the skull, recording the tracks of particles as they make their way into his brain. So in this case, an anomaly was reported and then an actual experiment was designed and then the question was officially answered. But this is exactly what NASA did not do with the bogeys or the flashing objects or the triangle picture that I showed you above the lunar surface. Now, there's a second category of evidence here and it needs to be kept strictly separate from the transcripts, right? The transcripts are very official. That is mission data. What I'm about to tell you now is not mission data. This is a testimony from Gordon Cooper, one of the Mercury 7 astronauts and the last American to fly in space alone. Cooper claimed that in 1951, flying an F-86 over West Germany, he and other pilots watched formations of what he described as metallic disc-shaped objects over two days, flying higher and faster than their jets could ever reach. He also claimed that in May of 1957 at Edwards Air Force Base, a camera crew he was supervising filmed a saucer-shaped object landing on a dry lake bed and that he shipped the film through official channels and then he just never saw it again. And then in 1978, Cooper put a version of this in writing in a letter to the United Nations and he stood by it publicly until his literal death in 2004. And then of course, there's Edgar Mitchell. This is the famous astronaut on Apollo 14. And he's the sixth man to ever walk on the moon. On July 23rd, 2008, Mitchell went on Kerrang Radio in the UK and flatly stated that he'd been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we have been visited and that the phenomenon is real. I mean, it's a pretty crazy statement for literally a man to walk on the moon. NASA responded within a day and claimed that the agency doesn't track UFOs and that it's not involved in any type of coverup about alien life and that Dr. Mitchell is a great American, but they completely disagree with all of his opinions. And two days later, Mitchell clarified something very important that gets forgotten. His claims had nothing to do with NASA. So he says that he never saw anything on Apollo 14. His sources were people connected to Roswell and to the intelligence world, men that he considered credible. And by that time, most of them were dead when he was speaking about it. Mitchell walked on the moon, founded a consciousness research institute and spent the last three decades of his life saying that the government was sitting on truth before dying in 2016. Without ever officially producing a document. I mean, it's a pretty substantial claim for a guy to walk on the moon, but you can see the discrepancy here. He never said that he saw anything while on the missions. It was never put in a debrief that's being held by NASA. It's just his own personal intuition based off conversations he had with people connected to intelligence. And then of course, there's Ingo Swann, who's honestly in a category all on his own. We did a full episode on Ingo Swann. He's fascinating. You should absolutely check out that episode. But just as a, maybe as a summary, here's what I can say. Swann was working as an artist in New York and he became the single most studied psychic subject in American intelligence history. He actually worked at the Stanford Research Institute under physicists Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ, and he helped develop coordinate remote viewing. This is basically like being able to blindfold yourself and see specific coordinates just with your mind. And this became basically the standard methodology for the CIA funded Stargate program. But here's what's not documented. In his 1998 book, "Penetration," Swann claimed that in February of 1975, he was contacted by a handler who would only identify himself as quote, Mr. Axelrod. The assignment, according to Ingo Swann, was simple. Go to the moon and describe what you see. Try to remote view the moon and tell me what you see on the moon. And he claimed that he perceived towers and domes of various sizes and bridges whose purpose he couldn't work out and machinery and lights of different colors. He even claimed that there were humanoid figures working on the surface of the moon. But the detail that makes the story so interesting is that he claimed at some point during the session, two of the beings looked up at him. Now, nobody has ever produced a tasking document for that session. We can't find Mr. Axelrod. The Stargate files confirm Swann's participation in the program and validate the institutional structure around him, but they do not contain any lunar assignment. So you can't file this under hard evidence or cover up. File it under like, hey, a really valuable psychic asset that the US intelligence community was working with. Basically believe that he went to the moon and saw the humanoid things work in there. Now, how does an agency of this size handle this kind of stuff and these weird sort of aberrations and these weird sort of, you know, documents without a single leak of a smoking gun? Well, it doesn't really need a conspiracy. It needs a filing system. So here's how it probably works. The first is, compartmentalization. The astronaut sees one thing, the Capcom on the ground hears one thing, and the photo analyst sees one frame, and nobody ever assembles the whole picture because assembling the whole picture was never actually anyone's job. It's spread between a bunch of different people. The second is normalization. Anything near a spacecraft gets logged first as ice and then debris and then paint or a reflection or hardware, obviously, right? And most of the time, that's probably what it is, which is exactly what makes it a pretty useful thing if you were to cover it up. Now, the third is language. NASA doesn't use the word UFO. It writes unidentified objects, visual phenomena, particles. So when people maybe see a UFO, they immediately think of aliens, but by not saying UFO, NASA makes the same sighting sound a lot more ordinary and technical and most importantly, unimportant. And the last one does the heaviest lifting. Nobody ever went back and tried to connect these dots. In September of 2023, NASA released the findings of a 16-member UAP independent study team chaired by the astrophysicist David Spergel. But NASA's own press release contained a sentence that a lot of the coverage on this just skipped over. It said, "The report is not a review or assessment of previous UAP incidents." So what was it? It was a roadmap for collecting better data in the future. It was never designed to look backward at Gemini 7 or Apollo 11 or Apollo 17. So when NASA says it has found no evidence, that statement is completely true. Well, it's true partly because the agency has never publicly conducted the historical review that would produce evidence one way or another. And then there's another weird ripple in this. NASA announced it was creating a director of UAP research, but at the press conference, officials refused to name the person due to members of the study team having received "harassment and threats." And then roughly seven hours later, NASA changed their mind. And then they named him. The guy is Mark McCurney, the agency's former liaison to the Pentagon. He held the role for about a year before rotating out. And as of today, nobody has been actually rotated into that position behind him. So NASA created a UFO chief, didn't name him. And then a couple hours into later, named him anyway, and then quietly just released him and never filled the position again. Just kind of weird. Now, the story didn't end, of course, with the moon landings. They continued into the space space shuttle era and in 2026, the government began releasing the records. So February 19th, 2026, a presidential directive ordered federal agencies to identify, review and declassify documents related to UAP. And then on May 8th, the Department of War launched a public portal at war.gov/ufo, and the system was called PURSUE, the Presidential Unsealing Reporting System for UAP Encounters. The first release contained roughly 162 files gathered from across federal governments like the FBI, the Pentagon, State Department, the Department of Energy, NASA, all that stuff. 15 of those files came directly from NASA. And they included the Gemini 7 audio transcripts and photographs from Apollo 11, 12, 16, 17, the Apollo 14 debriefing tapes. And then of course the crew debriefings from Skylab. And that was only the beginning. Three more batches followed, May 22nd, June 12th, and then July 10th. But it was the fourth release, that moved the entire story beyond Apollo entirely. So buried among those 40 files were three photographs taken aboard the space shuttle Columbia in 1996. The mission was STS-80, flown between November 19th and December 7th. At more than 17 days, it was the longest space shuttle mission ever completed at that time. The five person crew included Story Musgrave, the only astronaut in history to fly aboard all five space shuttle orders. And in three separate frames, an object can be seen near the like glowing edge of earth. And according to the government's own caption, the object appears to change position between the photographs. Rotating or maybe tumbling around its major axis in a way consistent with just a free floating object. Which is a very careful way of saying, hey, we photograph something, we see that it's moving and we don't know what it is. So let's try to wrap this up as honestly, honestly, as I can. Did NASA hide alien spacecraft? Did they hide hard evidence of aliens? Well, there is no evidence of that. Not in these files, at least, and not anywhere that I can find. Did NASA astronauts repeatedly report things that they could not identify over a decade in real time on the record with mission control listening? Absolutely, yes, unambiguously. And it's their own paperwork that proves it. You can read them. I just read them to you. Multiple times, astronauts have been like, I don't know what that is. Now, again, it doesn't prove that it's aliens, but it does prove that there's a lot of stuff going on that they can't answer. Gemini 7 in 1965, Apollo 11, 69, after the ground told them that their booster was 6,000 miles away in the wrong direction, they still didn't know what it was. Apollo 12, also in 1969, Apollo 17 in 1972, twice, plus a photograph that the government itself now says might show a physical object, and then, of course, the Columbia in 1996. Now, certainly, some of these weird things that they're seeing is ice. Maybe some of it is debris. Maybe some of it is, it's the frozen urine that's catching the sun and it looks beautiful. Wow. And some of it, a small fraction, has never been explained by anyone, including the very people, the trained scientists who wrote it down. NASA did the science on the cabin flashes. They saw these weird flashes going on in the cabin. They built instruments. They strapped them to astronauts' heads, and they flew to the moon, and they got a hard answer. Hey, these are literally just like rays coming from the sun going straight into your brain. Crazy. But it never did that for anything else, or at least they haven't disclosed it. And on June 30th, 2026, the sitting NASA administrator, Jared Isaacman, has said the agency has captured imagery that, based on the data inside it, they don't know what it is. He also described the older material in this exact same way. We kept a lot of that buried in the file somewhere. The files don't tell us what the astronauts saw. They tell us something that's kind of more annoying to sit with, that NASA always knew that these encounters were happening and that these observations were going on, and they just didn't have a word for it. It knew about the weird bogey. It knew about the object that wasn't the SIVB rocket launcher or the thruster. It knew about the lights escaping the moon. It knew when Apollo 17 said there was something out there. It just never really made a big deal about it. And all those stories may be connected, and maybe they're not. And of course, maybe it's just frozen urine flying in space. And that, my friends, is a brief story of why people believe that there is a nuclear war. NASA UFO cover-up. I mean, it's an interesting question, right? I don't know if. I just don't see them, like, putting the, like. If there is something out there that they're seeing that is, like, damning, like, look at this spacecraft, I just don't think they're going to put it in a file that's going to be released to the public. I think they're going to be like, yeah, we're not going to tell the public about this, because for all the reasons that, you know, disclosure is not happening, they're not just going to be like, look at this spacecraft. Now, as far as the astronauts, I mean, Buzz Aldrin straight up, like, punched a guy in the head for claiming that they didn't go to the moon, which, kind of badass. If they did go to the moon, which I believe they did go to the moon. Like, yeah, it was kind of sick. I actually, my favorite theory on this, and maybe we need to do a whole moon landing episode, my theory on this is that they did go to the moon, but some of the footage that we see may be fabricated. I agree. It kind of, that theory sort of does everything, right? Because they're like, oh, we lost the original footage of the moon, and, you know, we were literally making a live broadcast from the moon to earth, and everyone saw it live. Like, I can't even FaceTime in an elevator. It's like, they did that live? But at the same time, if you shine a laser at a mirror on the moon, you're going to get a laser back. We've been to the moon. But maybe some of the footage is, maybe Kubrick kind of handed it. I'd go as far as to say that all of the footage was fake, but we did go to the moon. Like, imagine they go to the moon, and then, maybe even the broadcast is legit. And then they come back and they try to look at all the footage, and it gets destroyed in radiation. They didn't realize that it was going to get blasted when they go through the Van Allen radiation belt. Or the actual footage that they tried to take was so damning about actual aliens that they decided not to use it, left on the cutting room floor. Now we're talking. I disagree with you, but that's a fire theory. I like that. Imagine an alien punch Buzz Aldrin in the face. They go, yo, you did land on the moon, bang, sucker punch. I got punched in the face. How are you going to tell me I didn't go? Yeah, that's crazy. Cracks his glass. That's wild. I mean, maybe, but I don't know. I think, uh, I, I, I just, I think the most likely stuff is unfortunately the boring answer where it's like, just cause you see something in space that you don't know what it is, doesn't mean that it's aliens, right? Like you're in your house and all of a sudden there's like a weird flash in your window. It doesn't mean that like there's aliens. It doesn't mean anything. It just means there's a flash in your window. It might just be like a car with its hazards on, you know? Yeah. So it's like, yeah. You can't just all of a sudden claim it's aliens. I think it was arguably more compelling evidence for the alien stuff. And I'm still kind of on the aliens are interdimensional theory. I kind of like that the best. That we can't reach them? That they're just coming through like a multi-world or like a multiverse kind of thing. Some type of like technology that can bend space and time. They're coming into our reality from a different reality. I kind of think that makes the most sense than like actual interstellar travel. But who knows? That's just my personal theory. What do you guys think? If you're a NASA astronaut watching this. What'd you see? Anything weird? If you're someone that studied this stuff or you've gone through all the most recent UAP disclosure stuff from the Trump administration. What are your thoughts? Please drop a comment below. I read all of them. YouTube, Spotify. I go through them all. Even if I don't respond to them, I do read them. And I'm sure someone else will respond and it'll be productive for the discourse here at the campsite. Just be nice about it. Okay, dude? Because let me just tell you right now. We have a nice little community. It's small. And I kind of like it that way. I sort of like that not that many people know about us. And if we can just keep it just, you know, civil. And kind here at the campsite. It would mean a lot. 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