Speaker 1The Telegraph He's been
Speaker 2following King Charles around for half a century, so what does royal photographer Arthur Edwards think of the crown as it stands today?
Speaker 1He shares his tales from royal tours, how he won over Princess Diana and the moment Prince Harry changed after meeting Meghan.
Speaker 3It's going to take more than just an apology, I think, for Harry to get over it. He's going to have to really show a lot more repentance, in my view. I mean, we make mistakes in our life, we all do, but sometimes you've got to do the penance and that's what he's got to do.
Speaker 1We are joined by Arthur Edwards, who is the undisputed king of royal photographers and now has a book, Cup of Tea, Arthur. It's a cup of tea, the royal tea, match made in heaven. Thank you so much for coming in. Can you tell us about the title of your book, please?
Speaker 3Yes, of course. I think it was 2010. It was 2010, at which time nobody bothered going with Prince Charles on his own anywhere, but I always used to go and the office always used to let me go. And he went to Germany and he was going to a couple of army bases there. And at the first army base, he did this picture with these kids flying a toy aeroplane. It was a nice picture. And then I got onto a helicopter with the palace press officer, Manns, and we flew. And then we were flying off to the next airbase. Prince Charles is on one helicopter, we're on the second helicopter. And I'm sending this picture, get it off my plate, you know, get it in early. And then we land and I turn to Amanda and say, "Are we there already?" She said, "No," she said, "We're in a massive storm and we've had to make an emergency land." And he said, "We've got to go into that house over there." And we landed in this middle of the field and walked into this house. And there was all these muddy footprints across this white carpet. I followed the footprints, walked into the room. And Prince Charles was sitting there with a teapot in his hand. And he said, "Would you like a cup of tea, Arthur?" I said, "Yes, please." And we sat there for an hour and we drank tea and we talked about my holiday and Norway and different things. And the equerry kept coming in and out saying, you know, the prime minister is now going to meet you at the airport. And the second visit's cancelled. And we just carried on talking for an hour. It was really lovely.
Speaker 1And it hasn't always been quite like that. Let me just read what the King. The now King said about Arthur a couple of years ago. He said, "Arthur, when I first knew him, used to be crawling about in the undergrowth. But it's amazing how life changes. He's a very good photographer, a jolly good bloke and a very special person, which we agree with." Yes. How has your relationship changed over the years, Arthur? What were you doing in the undergrowth?
Speaker 3I did, yeah. That was, of course, when Charles and Diana went to the Bahamas. On holiday and Diana was, I think, five months pregnant expecting William. And I've got these pictures and there was a bit of a row here about it all. There was one member driving in from the airport and putting the radio on and there was an editor of another newspaper that didn't have the pictures complaining about intrusion. And then there was an MP saying, he's brought a question up in the House of Commons about this intrusion. I feel pretty lousy. And when I got to the office, even the office driver, you know, he said, "You disgust me." I walked into the office, but the only person who was really happy was the editor. He was thrilled and he lifted me up off the floor and he said, "You've come back here a hero." Was that Kelvin McKenzie? Kelvin McKenzie. And, of course, he said, "I don't know what the fuss is about," because I missed the first edition, so he ran the pictures again the second day in the paper. What's all the fuss about? And it was great, and the thing about that was about a year later, I was with the princess, I think it was in Australia or some remote place, and we were at one of these press briefings, and she said, "How much money did you make out of the Bahama Mama pictures?" I said, "Well, ma'am, I've got nothing," I said, "Just the question of my expenses, as I was covering a court case in Bradford," and she said, "Pass me the Kleenex."
Speaker 2So, maybe she wasn't that bothered with the powers that be were.
Speaker 3No, she wasn't that bothered. But it was, you know, in the bushes, and, of course, this all came, this quote came from when he asked me to arrange his 70th birthday party. I asked him on a plane coming back from Canada what he wanted to do for his birthday, and he said, "What I'd like is a party for people all 70, the same age as me," so I ignored that. And then on his birthday, he said, a message came, "The prince wants to know what are you doing about this party?"
Speaker 2Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 3So, anyway, we did a come on, and in the paper saying, "Anybody that's a carer, a care worker, or mules on wheels, 70 this year, like to come and have tea with the prince and Duchess, of course, lovely Camilla, apply." Well, we had about 1,000 entries, and we picked 70 and their spouses. So, anyway, we did a come on, and in the paper saying, "Anybody that's a carer, a care worker, or mules on wheels, 70 this year, like to come and have tea with the prince and Duchess, of course, lovely Camilla, apply." Well, we did a come on, and in the paper saying, "Anybody that's a carer, a care worker, or mules on wheels, 70 this year, like to come and have tea with the prince and Duchess, of course, lovely Camilla, apply." And they came, and I was the host. And I was the host.
Speaker 2Oh, because I was on his land. I was on his land. And you shouted at him once, I think, at least I've got a job. Tell us about that.
Speaker 3Well, he said to me, I was on a public footpath down at Highgrove, and he came up on his horse and, what are you doing on my land? I said, I'm not on your land, I'm on a public footpath. He said, well, that's for walking on, not for taking pictures. And I'd been on the paper about 18 months. I said, well, I'm just doing my job. He said, some job. I said, well, at least I've got a job. Which he took as an insult. I didn't mean it as an insult. I wish I'd have thought about that before I said it. But he screamed off. He hit the horse so hard, he took off screaming, and steam coming out of his ears. And I took off steam and got out of there pretty quick as well. And one of the policemen the following Wednesday said to me, whatever happened? I said, well, he came in, he said, we was all sitting around the table in the kitchen drinking coffee. He hit the whip on the table. He said, the coffee cups went flying. He said, you're supposed to be guard. And Arthur Edwards is on my front lawn. So, you know, that was a bad start. And then, of course, there was another one up at Sandringham where he screamed, Mr. Edwards. And I said, well, Mr. Windsor. And he sort of said, well, I said, look, I'm not chasing your wife around Harrods or Harvey Nicks. I said, I'll be photographing an MP supposed to be doing his job in the House of Commons and he's shooting with you. He calmed down. We had a long chat about it. And that was the second round. And the third one, he just got a bit steamed up at a polo match one day when we was all photographing Diana and not him. Yeah, well, that will do it. But since then. And then I changed because, you know, I worked for a really, I suppose, a very demanding editor, you could say, about Kelvin. He had no regard for the royal family. In fact, when the Queen asked all the editors. To go to the palace, he made an excuse not to go. I don't think you want to be compromised. Yeah. And but I changed and I changed because I saw the great work he was doing. I went, I've been through every rainforest in the world with him. I've been to the Brazilian rainforest three times with him, the Amazon rainforest three times. So I know how much he cares and how much I watched him plead with his presidents and kings and prime ministers to stop ripping up this precious resource. And I realized that he was. You know, I meant it. And then one day he asked me to go down to Clarence House and he showed and they showed me all the plans he had and the proposals he was making. And I realized this was a serious thing with him. And and and so I started doing nice pictures of him. If he pulled a face, I didn't send that picture anymore. Of course, if he fell off his polo panty, I'd just used to send that. Well, obviously, because that's it. That's a new story. And of course, the girlfriend. You know, obviously, then the editor, when I first joined, the son was Larry Lamb, who said, I want you to find out who the prince is going to get married to, because he said 30 was a good time to get married. He made this speech and he was 28 and it's come out the Navy. So. I just was like driven. I just go to, I mean, three polo matches a week. I said, go to I hate the game, but it's so boring.
Speaker 2It's boring. Yeah, it's dreadful.
Speaker 3I mean, it's and slowly the different girlfriends turn. turned up, and it was only when And I went to a, believe it or not, a polo match on a Saturday, because we had no paper on a Sunday, because it was a little place down in West Sussex. And I was told he's here with a girl called Lady Diana Spencer. I said, what's she look like? He said, I didn't see him arrive, but she's definitely here watching him. And I walked around not having a clue who to look for. And I saw this very pretty girl. And she had a necklace on with a D on it. I said, are you Lady Diana Spencer? She said, yes. I said, may I take a picture of you? And she said, OK. And she posed that for me and did the picture. I rang the office and said, can you tell me a bit about Lady Diana Spencer? Come back. He said, she's the youngest daughter of Earl Spencer, a former equerry to the Queen. I said, how young? He said, hang on. Just had her 19th birthday. And so about five or six weeks later, I'm driving up to the Braemar Games. And I see Prince Charles fishing. And next to him is Diana. And I go out of the car, grabbed the cameras, rushed across. And I got the pictures of her running through the woods. And him, you know, very angry, throwing the fishing rod down, storming off. And I figured, you know, he was hiding there, you know, he was protecting her. I thought to myself, and I rang Harry Arnold, who was then the Sun reporter, who was having a, I think he was drinking champagne at a cricket match somewhere.
Speaker 2Vintage Sun reporter behaviour, can I just say?
Speaker 3I said, Harry. This is it. And we splashed on it on the Monday using the picture that I shot at the polo match five weeks earlier with the caption, Lady Diana Spencer, all the qualities to be queen. And then inside him fishing and her running through the trees. And that was it. And then, of course, that was, I think, in the September. And then in the February, they got engaged. I remember Harry and I saying, in a telegram, you remember what a telegram was? Vaguely. In then days. And we said, congratulations, Your Royal Highness, on your engagement to Lady Diana Spencer. Hope you both be very happy. And the following day, we got a telegram back from him saying, thank you for your kind wishes. Hope you won't be made redundant.
Speaker 2That's good. But isn't it nuts to think now in this 24-hour news cycle that you could have sat on that picture for five weeks and waited for the right moment. Did you have any sense at all back then that this woman had extraordinary star quality or was she just another girl?
Speaker 3I thought she was just another girl. But the fact is that she grew up at Sandringham, at Park House. So she knew the family very well. She'd been to Park House about six months earlier. No, she'd been to Sandringham six months earlier. And I saw them leaving with Amanda Natch. But it was then, I thought, the favourite to be the next Princess of Wales. So the time I turned around, they'd rushed back into the house. And I remember going to the station, Kingsland Station, and the station master saying, oh, they've gone, they've gone. They've gone to London. He said, you know, there's a photographer up there, Arthur Edwards. He's got a very big lens, but he's missed them. So I said, well, has he? I said, what time does the train get to London? He said, oh, get 4.15. So I rang the office, and they got a photographer in Liverpool Street. And he got a picture, but he was photographing Amanda Natchable. But actually, he did one of Diana. And it's in the book, that picture. And he, you know, it was just strange, you know, that he was this girl. And then I went to the nursery, and I asked, and this is another thing. This is another story that happened. I never followed the car. I never followed the car from the nursery. I did it. I knew from where she lived in Colhorn Court. I went to three or four nurseries. And on the third or fourth one, it was the one in Pimlico. And I said to the lady when she answered, does Lady Diana Spencer work here? She said, yes. I said, would you ask if she'd come and do a picture for me? And she came out. She said, yes, but she's going to bring two of the children. And she came out with the children. I took her to a little park next to it. There was a tree. At which time, all the paparazzi were sitting in their cars waiting for her to leave. Jumped out of their cars. But by this time, I got in a position I wanted. And then halfway through taking the picture, the sun came out, and we saw those wonderful legs.
Speaker 2This is the famous shot, in case anyone doesn't know of her. And she's wearing kind of chiffon skirt, and the light just catches her. And that's the moment, actually, where a star is born, in a way, Hannah. That particular photograph. But carry on, Arthur.
Speaker 3Anyway, so I went back to the office. And, of course, they splashed on it. It was a picture splash, which is, and it was, he's in love again. And, you know, this is Charlie's girl. It said, hello, Charlie's girl. And then, of course, we went back in the afternoon, because Harry Arnold wasn't there. Harry didn't work that early.
Speaker 2Those were the days.
Speaker 3He didn't start till 10. Fair enough. So I said, well, let's go down there in the afternoon. And she came out and had a chat to Harry. And Harry's a brilliant reporter. I miss him terribly. He was, he said to her, you know, he was asking her, and he said, you know, about your romance with Prince Charles. And she said, well, you know, I can't talk about that. And Harry asked a very clever question. He said, but did you tell your mother about it? She said, oh, yes. And, of course, it was on. And it was just a question of not if, but when. And it all, that summer was fantastic. You know, I remember her crying, breaking down at one of the polo matches from all the attention. And him sort of being so caring. And the wedding, of course, you know, which was a fantastic day. Picked the wrong pass. Went to the, went to the, went to St. Paul's rather than Buckingham Palace. I've got a nice. I've got a nice picture at St. Paul's, but I didn't get the kiss picture at the palace. And ever since any occasion, I go to the palace.
Speaker 2Yeah, always go to the, got to get the balcony shot, Arthur. That's right. You know this. I didn't know it then. No, well, it's a learning curve.
Speaker 3Because you've never kissed before.
Speaker 2It's a learning curve.
Speaker 3It was. You learn, and you've made that, you know, you learn by your mistakes. But I did get a nice picture. I've got a lovely picture of the train coming down the steps. And a great sub put a great headline on it. The train now standing at St. Paul's. Oh, that's good. It was clever, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. Shall we move on to more modern royals? Yeah, I was just going to ask you, Arthur. All this stuff is very different era, royal reporting and royal photography. There's an amazing line in here where you need to get somewhere. And you said, the flights are booked, so I just charted a Learjet. Yes. You actually went on to have an amazing relationship with Diana. Yeah. What was the turning point? Was it the bins?
Speaker 2When you tried to rescue her from being angered. She was being angered by some French paparazzi.
Speaker 3Yeah, they were putting these beer cans. These beer kegs. Trying to block her car in. And she started crying. I said, don't let them see you cry. That's what they want you to do. No, we got on pretty well because she would stop and have a chat. And I kind of liked her straight away. And she was pretty shy as well. She used to blush. When you see William, they're doing the same now. When I look at William, I know who his mother is because he does that same thing. He blushes a wee bit. But she was a young girl. You know, she was 19. I mean, it was incredible that she took on that role. And everybody says, not everybody, lots of people say never truly loved her. But I remember doing that first tour to Australia. I mean, we were away five, nearly six weeks to Australia and New Zealand. And they were so loved up. I can't tell you. They just couldn't keep their hands off each other. You know, it was just tremendous. And it was William with them. It was sensational. You know, every day it published that story. Can you imagine for five weeks publishing?
Speaker 2What was it like when the princes came on the scene and you had to handle the photographing of children? Because obviously we know how Prince Harry now sees it. I mean, he makes out as if photographers made his childhood a misery. I'm not sure whether that story is actually told in some of the photography. Of him on log fumes and all the rest of it.
Speaker 3Well, the thing is about then, you've got to remember it was the 80s. You've got to remember that there was no, none of these controls. We know it is a code of conduct then. Anything went and you had to be there. And you, when the children started their school, you were there when they started school. When they had the school play, you were there for the school play. I mean, and I must say, I mean, one of the policemen told me, Harry, William used to say, I hate photographers, I hate photographers. I remember Harry poking his tongue out at the car window. I mean, he wasn't.
Speaker 2So Harry kind of played to the cameras more than his brother.
Speaker 3Harry was, in fact, you know, I've got to tell you this. Harry was an absolute star as some readers were concerned because he was so full of fun. You know, when you went on a tour with him, I'm sure you both agree on this. He was, he was, he was, he did everything to help you. He'd give you a great picture. is you ask him to do something I remember we went to jamaica i mean it was sensational he was running with hussein bolt he was cheating he was hugging the prime minister he was dancing with his blue suede shoes with the girls bob marley's i was on that tour it was a great tour fabulous tour he was all right then we went on to brazil and he was playing the kids on the beach and fighting them and we
Speaker 2went up to the charles the redeemer statue didn't be at the top of that mountain but then what happened arthur then he met her
Speaker 3right and it all changed it changed instantly from him being a great person to work with to someone you didn't want to work with and i didn't want to work with them i didn't i did that i did that first year with megan and harry and i realized it was it she was she was kind of acting all the time and and then when it all sort of started to become difficult i didn't go i wouldn't go on the trips paul my son went to australia and i just couldn't i just didn't want to know he just was cut us all dead once he met her he didn't want to know it was though we were the sort of evil monsters where before he would we'd all go to the pub you remember after after the trips we'd all go to the pub
Speaker 2we had that drinking session at sandals resort i don't know i'm not sure quite what happened after it was the beach yeah i was kissing an australian news anchor on the lips but anyway that's that's enough that's a tale for another day i
Speaker 3remember that so well that evening yeah because yeah of course yeah
Speaker 2four years ago wow um so okay so that made things difficult i mean where where are you with him now because obviously you've got this huge admiration for the king he's had a very difficult time since megxit we've now had prince harry come out this week saying well i'd like to reconcile i can't understand why nobody wants to get back together and it's like well it's
Speaker 3probably because read the book read your book harry yeah a book he didn't even check he didn't even read the galleys he couldn't have done because in there i mean he says in his book he was he was at uh eaton when the queen mother died he was he was at close to us because i was going to because it was easter saturday yes when she died it wouldn't really and and and they were there and we're going to they were going to go to church the next day easter sunday so i was driving back from i went to mass down in one of the villages on saturday evening i'm driving back up the thing and and i hear the news and and of course the following morning we just photographed them
Speaker 2leaving oh really i'd like a fact checker on that because he says that i was wrong about everything all the time and it was only just some of the time or perhaps never 50 50 well i'm not sure um but um hannah what do you think are you pleased to see him back arthur
Speaker 3yes and no okay yes because i think the royal family who needs someone like harry they need they need despair they need someone i mean he was very good at the job when he when he was when he without her i mean with her now he's always holding her hand and looking at her and makes me feel sick the way he goes on about it but when he was on his own he was a star i mean i can remember great trips you know with especially with kids when he when he was when he was with kids he'd become a kid you know i remember going to this children's hospital in barbados and i was
Speaker 2there too that profoundly disabled girl he was so amazing with
Speaker 3her he was just he was just like fantastic he wouldn't stop till he got this little girl to
Speaker 2smile yeah he wanted her she loved the song umbrella by rihanna i remember because and he was extraordinary and then we all interviewed him do you remember we went onto the roof and he started giving us some great quotes about whenever i'm on the roof i'm on the roof i'm on the roof i just think of my mum and i want to continue her legacy and he's like i'm at my happiest when i do these jobs and it was so genuine and i thought goodness me i was so impressed with him that that
Speaker 3trip well i went to i went to uh the sutu with him twice for this said to barley and i remember the second time when he took his brother and we went to this night school which he created and these kids used to sometimes put the herds down and and walk some up to two hours at this night school and i remember afterwards we went into and he went into a little kitchen and he and he made me a cup of tea and we're sitting there and i said is this important how important is this year he said it's the most important thing i've ever done you know and he was passionate about it and that's the harry that i'm missing i know that's still there and but you can't go and accuse the royals of being racist one minute you can't say bad things about his brother and he's and his sister-in-law and he's not going to be able to do that and he's not going to be able to do that and he's not and and and the queen and you can't just say well that's all right but you know i made a lot of money out of that but now i just want reconciliation yeah and i just don't think it's going to happen like that and i think when they had that meeting that the both families down at high grove about maybe six or eight weeks ago now when nothing came out that we don't know what went on with that no conversation when
Speaker 1they took archie a little bit to the
Speaker 3children yeah i think i think i don't think that the king laid the rules down then this is what you can do and this is what you can't do and uh and i think this interview is given this week harry when he said you know i want to say if somebody's not interested well it's going to take more than just an apology i think for harry to get over it he's going to have to really show a lot more repentance in my view i mean it's we make mistakes in our life and we all do and um but you know sometimes you've got to do the work and that's what he's got to do and until he until that i think eventually he will come back working for the royal family because he's a great asset i mean we know that don't we yeah he was he was a fantastic person he was he was tremendous i really did i really did like him i used to i remember that that when we were in that jamaica trip talking to one of the one of the um one of the parliamentarians there and she said they wanted to send us princess ham we sent we sent a delegation alone and say we want harry we want harry
Speaker 2well he was the king of the caribbean at the time yeah and he was the great republican slayer at that point i know that um obviously they went on to decide to ditch us but at the same time back at that moment there was a very republican female prime minister and he absolutely charmed
Speaker 3the socks off her and when he hugged her i said uh why'd you hug her harry he said my father said she likes a hug so i thought i'd get him first
Speaker 2um arthur what's your um analysis of william and kate at this stage in all this i mean obviously you've photographed them a lot particularly the new princess of
Speaker 3wales i think she's absolute superstar i think she um i think that i mean when you work with her she's so natural she's just i did a job recently down in sussex and um with with some elderly people at sort of elderly lunch people's lunch i felt like i should go there myself and have something to eat anyway it was it was and she was fun she was lovely laughing she was it was tremendous stuff it was it was the easiest thing you'd ever have to do in your life just be there and you get great pictures and and of course she is she's she's the she's the star of the royal family now i mean she is the superstar as as was diana and and she doesn't i don't think she likes that i mean you know she she she's got this role and she's doing it best but at the same time she's a mother of three children and i think she spends a lot of time with them which is i think she should do and and doesn't do an awful lot of work i mean why should she she's got the children and and but um she's the star but the person the reason i carry on working the reason why is because of the king because i think he is an amazing man he's living with cancer he's determined not to he's not his legacy not to be that of a sick man he's piling more and more work on himself and um and he's brilliant and and as i said in the book you know people when he made that speech in washington to the congress and it was a magnificent speech and people say what great man he is what a great man he is but i've known he's been a great man for a long long while i've been to some of the places in the world where only i know what he did for these people i remember once coming out we came out of a youth club in burnley burnley a city in the north of england and it was pretty run down the booth club and he said what can we do what can the sun could do to help this youth club i said what have you got in mind he said well he said what about if i have a reception for page three girls i said you serious he said yeah he said uh he said well we said i have them for the archers he said i have them for coronation street you know page three girls so i completely ignored it anyway a month later i get a call what are you doing about the page three girls thing unfortunately i'm not going to be able to do that i'm going to be able to do that i'm going to Michael Peet, his secretary was with him at the time, I said, you heard that Michael didn't you?
Speaker 2He said, yeah, right.
Speaker 3So I said, right. Michael Peet's having a heart attack at this day. So, so I rang the editor, I spoke to the editor. And Michael Peet said, get Dominic to ring me. And I was the editor. And we set a plan in action and with Breakthrough that just, the breast cancer charity. And we organised a big event at the, I think the Natural History Museum. And, I mean, the page three girls turned up fully dressed, I might add. And, and he didn't come. And I said to him, why didn't you come? And he said, they took me out of it.
Speaker 1Oh, those men in grey seats again.
Speaker 3That's right. So, you know, but that's just, but he wanted to do this for, to raise money for this youth club, you know. And in fact, we raise a lot of money for the breast cancer charity. I think we, I'm not sure if we sent money to the, to the youth club, but that's what he's like. He's always thinking, another time we were in Nepal and we would been to Kathmandu, we'd been to this sanctuary. where the women are trafficked into the brothels of India. When they come back, the families reject them. And this lady, a centre for them, it was just a few tin huts. What can the Sun readers do to help her? What have you got in mind? He said, well, what about if we sell a limited edition of my painting of Annapurna, one of the Himalayan mountains? He said, 250 for 250 pounds each. I said, great, let's do it. Anyway, we did. We could have sold 1,000. Just everybody wanted one. And we bought a big, huge piece of land for this woman. And some industrialist, German industrialist, put a building up. But I went out there for the opening. I mean, it was an amazing place. And that was all down to him. What can we do for this woman? And I'm not going to tell you another story about it. And we went to Krakow in Poland. And we went to the Jewish quarter there. And he was sitting there talking to them. And they said, well, the problem is, sir, we've got nowhere to teach our children. And he came back to England. He rang, well, he didn't ring. Someone rang the World Council of Jewish Relief to say, come and have lunch with him. And he explained the problem to the Jews. In Krakow. And they organized two dinners. He went to both of those dinners. And they raised four million pounds. And they built a center. And I went out there when he opened it. And it was fantastic to see the happiness. And it's called the Prince of Wales Center. Very small outside. But, you know, that's him. And he did that. And he just does that all the time. Helps people. Helps people. And he uses me twice. Three times. Organizes parties as well. Well, fair enough.
Speaker 2I love that. From the East End to the photography darkroom to. The Royal Party Planner.
Speaker 1Exactly that. This is an absolute treasure trove of your stories, Arthur. We loved it so much. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2On the Royal Tea with a cup of tea. Arthur, at some point you might have to retire. Can I just say that to you?
Speaker 3Well, if I do, you know, I'll have to die with great memories. Indeed so. Especially working with you two ladies.
Speaker 2Thank you very much. We'll be back on Monday, 5pm.
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