In this special Pride Month mini season of Spaghetti Talk, host Taylor Capillary introduces a three-episode series centered on two young queer men from the theater community. The initiative began when a young man approached Taylor at a local event, requesting to share his story on the podcast. Taylor, wanting to use her platform to celebrate Pride, agreed and invited both him and his best friend to participate. Episode 1 features Noah Bauer, a recent high school graduate now studying musical theater at Ball State University. Noah recounts his journey of self-discovery, from experiencing bullying in elementary school for being feminine to grappling with his identity during COVID after watching "Glee." He describes the emotional moment of coming out to his mother, who accepted him but asked him not to be flamboyant—a request that later caused resentment. Noah also discusses his transition from competitive swimming to theater, where he found a supportive community and an adrenaline rush similar to sports. Episode 2 will spotlight Anthony Williams, a drama director and actor, and Episode 3 will bring both guests together to explore the meaning of Pride Month. Taylor emphasizes her role as a facilitator, providing a safe space for these young men to share their authentic stories.
[Music] Hi, welcome to Spaghetti Talk. I'm your host, Taylor Capillary, and surprise! Guess who's back? Back again. You thought we were on a break. So did Ross Geller, just kidding. I thought we were on a break, but you know, the universe just has its way. Okay, so you're probably wondering what's happening. I'm going to tell you. For June, I am releasing a special mini season for Pride Month, and the way that this came about is actually pretty awesome. I was at an event. I had a local theater event not too long ago, and a young man who is a part of the queer community and also the theater community came up to me. It was like, you should put me on your broadcast, and I was like, yes, I should. And not only should I put him on my podcast, but his best friend. Every year I try to think of ways to celebrate Pride Month, and it was a no-brainer. I have this platform. Yeah, I wasn't doing anything with it for June. Why not share it and allow somebody else to share their story. And you will see in the next few episodes, there will be three total. I don't really say much, and that is intentional because I wanted to give these two young men a safe space to share. And yeah, it's not really about me. Like I mentioned before, it's going to be three episodes. And our first episode is featuring a young man who graduated from McCutchen about a year ago, and is currently enrolled at Ball State University in their musical theater program. And his name is Noah Bauer. And episode two, we will be featuring another young man who is a part of the queer community and also the theater community. And his name is Anthony Williams. He is the Harrison High School drama director. He recently stepped into this role this last spring. He is also a working actor. And I recently had the amazing opportunity to see him perform at Civic Theater's production of Fun Home. Oh, it was incredible. You guys, I don't know if you've seen the Civic Theater lineup for next season. They, their shows are going to be amazing and I cannot wait to see them. Sorry, that was a side note. Anyway, episode three is going to feature both of them. And you'll see they are together in each of these episodes, even though one is focused on the other. And the reason for that is they are supporting each other in this moment of sharing their story, which I thought was beautiful. But for the last episode, we will focus more on Pride Month and what Pride Month means to them and their experiences celebrating Pride Month and you know, whatever other fun things that we want to talk about. And yeah, so that is that is our little mini season for June celebrating Pride Month. I am so honored that no one and chose me to be their safe space to share their story. I can't wait for you to hear what they have to say. So here we go. Happy Pride Month. And here's Noah. Okay, so hi. Thank you for coming in. This is my first nighttime interview, which is why we're the shirt listener. It says Buenos Serrata, which means good evening and timing. Good evening. It's cute. I love your outfit. I love your outfit. Thank you. I want both of your outfits. Yeah, they've never known. Paul's got a lot of outfits really quick. I seriously want to thank you both. Like this was kind of last minute. But when I saw you that night and you're like, I should be like, yes, you should. Yes. In the name. Thank you for playing that seed. So many things to talk about. I know we already went through our list, but we're going to start right from the beginning. Little babies. Little babies. Baby, baby. Okay. We'll start with you. Central. I'm left. Okay. So I am from Lafayette. Well, technically, I was born in a small town called Clarksill, Indiana. I don't actually know how far it is. I think it's about 20 minutes from me. And then we lived in that house for a little bit, but it was like severely haunted. Yes. Oh my god. I will tell you so much. So I don't know this. This is going to be fine. Yes. Yes, it was this old blue house. It wasn't old when we bought it, which was the weird thing, because the ghosts that were in it were older. I grew up not like to a specific religion. My parents always told me that I'm allowed to study whatever religion I want to because that's my choice. But we are pretty spiritual. My mom, well, my grandma always says that we come from gypsies. So I've always felt pretty magical in that sense. But in this house, random things would be moved. I as a kid, when we would sit at dinner, it would be like, this is the dinner table. And then the door is the hallway and the lights would be off. And I would point at the doorway and I'd be like, I don't like her. There would be no one there. This is my day job at U-Coming in. Yes. My grandma, one time, baby sat for me and she said that she was upstairs, putting me to bed. And she heard plates crashing downstairs and she ran down and there was nothing. My mom would hear running up stairs when no one was home and she would tell it to stop and it would stop. But do you know the cover of Bridge Festival? Yes. My mom went to that with my grandma one year and my grandma always goes to the same medium who's there and gets a psychic greeting. And so my grandma was like, oh, you have to get a psychic greeting from her. So my mom went in. In the second, my mom stepped in, the psychic was like, oh, honey, your house is haunted. And my mom hadn't told her anything about her life. She just like felt the spirits like attached to her. I was just about to say that they were falling everywhere. Yeah, yeah. And she was like, I'm going to give you this number to call a priest. You need to get some holy water and some Jesus statues. And here's like my car. I'll come over. Clens your house. And my dad had also had a few experiences. But basically the ghosts were like civil war ghosts, which is why I was like, it was weird because the house was not built during civil war times. It was newer. I'm pretty sure. But there were boots and the attic that were civil war boots that my dad had found. And we assumed that it was to that. And yeah. So then we ended up moving. Not because the house was haunted, but just because my mom wanted to move into the town and to Lafayette. I always say that it's because our house was haunted. Wow. Yeah. So we moved to Lafayette when I was five. So 2012. And I live in a small town called Dayton, which is about 10-ish minutes outside of the town toward Rosville. If you know where Rosville is at. And I went to Dayton Elementary School. And since it was Pride Month, I'll talk about my experience there. My parents were very accepting for sure. They always told me that I could love whoever I want to love. But it never sat with me because I didn't really understand what that meant. I just kind of was like, yeah, sure. Like I love my mom. I love my mom. Yeah. Oh, yes. And I would say that I really didn't experience like homophobia until probably for a sure second grade. This girl was like, came out to me and she was like, are you gay? I was like, what? I was like, what does that mean? And she was like, you're really gay. And I was like, what? Like I actually had, it was like a foreign language. I didn't even know what that word meant. And I asked my teacher. I was like, what does gay mean? And she was like, it just means really happy. And I was like, okay, I was like, period. But then people started saying it to me, like in a negative way. And like, you're really gay or like, all you do is hang out with the girls. Like, why don't you hang out with any of the boys? And I was like, I'm not like, I don't know what that is. I'm not gay. And I played sports all throughout my life until high school. So I did baseball. The guys during baseball were all fine. They never said anything crazy, which I was very fortunate. I was mostly just the guys at school. Elementary school was fine up until about fourth and fifth grade. I just really was depressed all the time. I was in the principal's office all the time because like crying to her about just like, who's being rude? Like, the guys would call me a girl just because like, all I did was hang out with girls. And I liked
more feminine things. Yeah, it got to the point where I had to go to therapy for it. Like as a young kid and I completely forgot about it until I like uncovered it the other day, like thinking I was like, oh my gosh, yeah, I have been going to therapy for quite a long time just because of this. - It's incredible what the body does. - Oh my God. - You know what it hides, what it stores, and then when it decides to bring it out. - Bring it up. - And there's always a reason for it. - Yeah. - Then middle school was honestly fine. COVID hit my seventh grade year. And as I heard in your last podcast, like we literally talked about time free COVID and post COVID. - Yeah. (laughing) - So yeah, COVID happened this seventh grade. And that was like, it was crazy living like such a historic event because like, I know like years from now people are going to talk about COVID as if it's like, you know, - Totally. - Because it affected our world. - Yeah. - And I remember exactly where I was. I was in the cafeteria and they were like, okay, we're going to have two weeks of spring break. And I was like, two weeks. I was like, wow, that's a long time. I was like, I can't wait to go into my mom. We can go on a longer vacation. We already had our vacation bland and everything. Then we went on spring break and they were like, we were not on spring break, but we went home. And they were like, it's because of like a global pandemic. I was like, I don't even know what a pandemic is. - Oh, I've never even heard of that. - I didn't either. - Yeah, exactly. - I'm a very extroverted person. And I love being around people. So I had missed my friends and we live out in the country. So it's not like a neighborhood where I can just come and be out with people. It takes extra work, I guess. I was very depressed during COVID just because I didn't have people, but my room became my sanctuary. So I would watch all bunch of new shows, play my craft every day and to with my friends online. A little flashback. When I used to ride the bus to school every day. - In this girl, my bus was watching Glee. If you've ever seen Glee, you should not be. - And Glee, she was like, have you ever seen it? And I was like, no, she was like, well, you should watch it. You're kind of like looking me up and down and I was like, well, okay, sure. So I had remembered it during COVID and I was like, oh, well, this is the perfect time to watch it 'cause all I do is sit and watch TV or yeah. So I started watching it and fell in love with it. And there was this character and it Kurt, if you don't Kurt. And in the first few episodes, spoiler, Kurt's not gay. He's closeted. He's considered himself straight and is not out to his friends. But I had connected with him 'cause I was like, yeah, he's so feminine and only hangs out with the girls and he's all these things and he's straight. I was like, yeah, that's so me. That's perfect. Now I feel like I'm getting representation. And then the second or third episode he comes out. And I was like, I walked in and I was like, huh, good for him. (laughs) And it wasn't until later that night that I was like, wow, we are really similar. And I was like, he really likes all these things. And I was like, but those things don't make you gay. I was like, you can't be, I was like, I can't be gay. I was like, no, I can't. And then I started sitting with it, sorry. - If not, yeah. - You could take a pause. - I was like, I wasn't upset that I was gay, that I was mad that the people who bullied me were right. - Oh. - Hello. - Yeah, that. - Yeah. - And I was like furious. That I, my sister and, well, my sister is 13 years older than me. She's my half sister, shout out Michelle. She practices Christianity. And so I'd been going to church with her my first two years of middle school. And so during this time I would like, try and pray the gay way, 'cause I was like, maybe like, I just don't want this. I don't want to have to deal with it. But then I sat with it and I was like, you know what, it's me. I've to accept it. And I was like, I was like, well, I really never have been attracted to girls. I'd always had like a girlfriend in elementary school, or whatever, just like, I don't know what girl that I liked. But I really just thought she was pretty and I wanted to be her. But, so then it wasn't until about a week later that I had told my mom, and we were at the grocery store and I was like, why don't we tell her? And I thought about the whole ride there. And I thought about it in every aisle. And every time she would stop, I thought about, is it now? Is it now a good time to tell her? She's got things for the frosted flakes. This is like good. So then I didn't. We got out to the check outline. I was like, definitely can't do it now 'cause there's a person here. And I was like, why is this so taboo? Like why is it like, this shouldn't be hard. Especially my mom who literally all my life was like, yeah, be whoever you want to be. Do whatever you want to do, it doesn't matter. And I told her we were in the car ride home and I was just like, mom, I think that I'm gay. And she was like, okay. And I was like, I started bawling like. I've already cried. I was like, oh good. I literally was bawling so much. She was like, why are you crying? And I was like, 'cause this is gonna change my life. Like I can't hide anymore. Yeah. I can't, like this is gonna change everything to you. Like, but it doesn't have to. It's not have to change your life. And I was like, yeah, but it did. And like when I sat there and I like sat with it, it felt like all of my cells had like flipped in my body. Oh. So like how we talk about like pre-COVID and post-COVID. Yeah. For me, it's like pre-coming out and post-coming out because like I really just feel like a completely different person. A better one. Yes. I can be myself. To be in your body. Yes. For real. Yeah. Maybe that's what it was. It was like I really could sit with myself. It wasn't a bad flip. But then I'm gonna say like trust the process because I'm gonna say something about my mom, which I think Anthony probably knows. But we got home. My mom was like, are you like sure that you're gay? You might be by. And I was like, no, I'm definitely gay. I was like, I definitely do not have any attraction women in that way. Love my girls, so. All I asked, she was like, I don't care who you love, who you date. But all I asked is that you please don't be flame boyant. And I was like, is that mean? She was like, you don't need to force a personality to be gay. You can just be gay and not have to talk about all time. And I was like, okay. And as you see me now, I do not follow that. And that honestly created a lot of resentment towards my mom. Now in days, when we like have a relationship with anyone, it mostly starts online or like, yeah, through a friend of a friend. And the hard thing with queer people is people are like, oh, I have this gay friend, he's perfect for you. But it's like me and Anthony sitting next to each other. So it's like, is he really perfect for you? See? Like, yeah. And. And at first, I also was like, I only like much a man, like more masculine, like you don't even know that they're gay. But as I've grown, I'm like, I really don't care. I actually would prefer more of like a queer person who understands the culture because it means so much to me. It really happened. It was great. I came out to all my friends and it was half and half. I think everybody knew, but half the people were like, oh my god, I had no idea. And like, we're just like there for me and whatever. And then the other half were like, yeah, I know. It is now thinking back on like, it's kind of offensive to be like, yeah, I knew your gay. But I don't really care about it as much because I'm just like, I got it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, as a kid, I really just-- Most of people's reactions are usually from their own-- Yes. Shit. Learned-- Yeah. --experienced-- Not like I'm a better word. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I always say like, people's personalities from a kid's standpoint is learned from their parents. And then once you hit middle school, it changes a little bit. I will change this a little bit more. And then college is when you really get to pick your own. You get to pick what you keep. And then you get to pick what-- Well, sometimes you get to pick what you keep. Sometimes mannerisms come from parents, and you don't even mean to do them. But an eighth grade ended up going into McCutchen. And then I was doing swim competitively. I was a competitive swimmer. Oh, wow. Yes. And which is so crazy to think about? Because theaters become my whole life now that it's completely forgot that I had a whole-- at least I've said now-- a whole half of my life where I did sports all the time. My question, you're my mom was like, you can absolutely do theater, but you have to continue to swim. I was like, OK, that's fine. And I used to swim for the Jeff team as a middle schooler, because I was just that kind of-- Oh, wow. But when I switched to high school, I had to start, because there's a rule that you're not allowed to swim for a different team of a different school, which sucks, because I did like the people. But I didn't want to transfer to Jeff, because I had all my friends. Yeah, yeah. And you know, friends are like-- Friends are everything, yes. Oh, yes. And now. And now. And all phases. And all phases of life. Well, I went to the-- we had a drama club. And the drama club was not directly linked to our fall play in spring musical. It was separate. And it was a club where we would play games and learn about theater every Monday. We had our theater Mondays. I went to the drama club call out. And I was like, wow. Yeah, this is my place. Yeah. So it was like, wow, these are great people. And I was just so excited, because all I had dreamed about was doing choir and high school and doing drama club. And I was like, wow, I'm just so happy. then. and they started doing theater Mondays and I also was taking a theater arts class. My first year I was full blown theater. I was like, here we go. I could finally do what I wanted to 'cause we didn't have drama club in middle school. I didn't know about Civic. Like, I didn't know idea about it until high school, which is so upsetting because I just like, I literally was in my box of like straight sports. - Yeah. - And the only thing that I had seen prior to that was like when we would take elementary school trips to go see shows when my coach and did was sort of awesome. I went to go see that in like third grade. - Hello. - And yeah, that was the only exposure to theater that I had prior to doing in high school. - Do you miss sports at all? - Ooh. Hmm. Okay, Zindeling, I actually was talking about that's with a guy the other day who goes to or is graduating from a coach in this year, who does baseball and I'm like, I think about if I would have continued to do baseball. I think in the sport aspect, disregarding the fact that I am queer, I do because I'm very competitive. - Yeah, I'm pretty sure. - Yes, yeah, I am competitive. - Extremely competitive. I agree my friends always do that. I mean, they're my partner because if they mess up once I get hell out of them, but when I mess up, it's not a problem. (laughing) - Shake it off. Shake it off. - Shake it off. - Shake it off. - So I love it. - Yeah, very competitive. So I do miss that aspect of it, which I found in the adrenaline of doing theater. So I like found that. I don't know when to rush again. - Yeah, yeah. - Which is nice. But being openly queer and doing sports, it just sounds horrific. Like I just can't even imagine, 'cause I just don't think I could handle that mentally. And I think the university of that too, which is why I think. - Well, there are adult softball leagues that exist. - Yes, there are. - And my husband plays on one and you can make your own team. - With white hair. - Maybe that's our new brand of jokes. - Yeah, exactly. - I mean, now I just kinda go to the gym. - Yeah. - I still swim laps sometimes, 'cause I do miss swim. - Oh, can we talk completely forgot to talk about this? I, in fall, when I auditioned for the fall play, I got in, I actually got a pretty big part. We did an summer night stream. - You did. - And I got Liceander. - That's crazy. - Which is like one of the four leads. - Wow. - Well, I'd say like five. - What did that feel like? - It was crazy being a freshman and getting casted as I was like, wow. - Yeah. - I was like, maybe I'll be winning. - Yeah, I'm like, wait. I'm ready. You love me. - I love you. - Lice camera action. - This is great. - Absolutely. - But swim started in the middle of the fall play rehearsal process. And my mom was like, you're still doing swim, you're still doing swim. I had all my gear purchased. I purchased my, 'cause you have to pay to do a sport. - Yeah. - And my mom had purchased it. And I am very intuitive and like a big empath. And I was like sitting there in the rehearsal seat after fall play rehearsal. And I was like, I can't go. I was like, I can't do it. I was like, my body is like complete. Lee rejecting this. I felt like I was gonna like throw up. I was like, I, - Oh my god, I'm lost. - Yes. - I literally was like, I was like, - I know. - Jocely back to the pool. If I, they were already practicing for 30 minutes. So I would have to walk in first day practice, 30 minutes late. And I was like, I can't do it, mom. And I walked all the way there. I texted her like three times. I was like, I don't think I can do it. She was like, you're doing it. I already paid for it. You're doing it. And my mom is like, all love. She was like, in our family, when you commit something, you do it. And you finish it out. I don't care if you're having a horrible time during, you finish it out. And that was that way that entire time. Like when I did baseball, I quit baseball 'cause I started hating it towards the end. And she was like, you're finishing the season. Like you just have to finish the season. I was like, okay. So this is the one time that I really like, I guess, rebelled. That's my mom. It's like, I can't. I was like, you have to come pick me up. I'm not walking in there. All love. I was like, she was like, okay, then this theater thing better be big. And I was like, I was like, I don't think I can do it with theater and like making it to practice and having like competing and I was like, the musical is coming up. I can't do it. I was like, I can't be trouble and I have to pick one. She ended up picking me up and we didn't talk. She didn't talk to her car right home. She didn't talk when we were at home. And I was like, I lost my mom. I was like, I lost her. I was like, no, please mom. I was like, please talk to me. And she was just upset because she didn't want me to be like a quitter because, well, my mom should just come on here and talk about her life because her life is insane. My mom has gone everything that she has in her life from fighting and my mom didn't want me to be a quitter and like lose things because I didn't fight for them and try hard. So I mean, I get it. Yeah, all the intentions. All the intentions were there. We tried. You do. The intentions are there. Yes. I will tell my kids, I'm like, listen, this is where we're going off of. Yes. Exactly. This is all I know. Oh my God. I am not perfect. So yeah, it was a rough two days that we didn't talk. But I'm talking to our actor. I was like, I promise you, like, theater, like I just know. Like I know that it's just like halfway through. But I just have a feeling of this is going to be what I want to do with my life. And she's like, okay, she was like, fine. Then let's hear. Let's get it. She came to our shows and she loved it. She was like, oh my God, you're so good. I don't know a single thing you were saying out there because it shakes me her back. I love it. I love it. I love it. The musical came out that year and it was very poppins. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to go in. I'm not having high hopes because I'm a freshman. I was like, fall play cast is 30 musical cast is 70. And we don't do cuts. I'm a kitchen. Everyone's cast it. Oh, okay. Yes. So which is a blessing and a curse sometimes. But I went into auditions, shaken like a dog. I was like, this is the first time I had really sung in front of people by myself because I had done choir this whole past semester and at a high school level. And I did choir throughout middle school. This is amazing because I have seen you perform and I would have sworn you would have been doing this since you were five. I know. I literally didn't start theater until high school didn't start choir until middle school. Didn't start singing until middle school. Wow. Like I'd sang on my own, but like, yeah. And I don't even know. Like I was shaking. I was behind that piece of paper. Like I know GoPro and K, they were probably all laughing their asses out because I was singing, let's go fly a kite and octave down because I was going through puberty. So I was like trying to play out. Oh, bro. Yeah. So I was like a mess. Then there was a junior who was auditioning for the same role. By the way, I was auditioning for Michael Banks, the younger brother in Ray Poppins. There was a junior at the time I was auditioning for the same role. I was like, I'm not getting it. I'm not getting it. There were voices ahead of me. We're about the same high. We have similar look. And he has way more experience. I'm not getting it. I ended up getting a call back at night for Michael. And I was like, I've made it. I was like, please, please Lord. Then we went on to auditions. And I was like, I just have to give it up my all. And drama club we do practice mock auditions. And all we talk about is like just throw it out there, give it your all. Like make sure you leave. I love that. I love writing what you put out there. I do love that. Yes, it's me. I love that. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. I'm on pick it up. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. I'm on pick it up. I'm on pick it up. Yeah. And then I just had to come back in. There were absolutely no comments. If you would make a comment, they would probably cut you from the cast or recast you. It was very serious. So while all of us were trying at least our hardest to be grateful for what we had, castus came out and my bus ride home. And I was so anxious and I was like, I'm probably not gonna get it. It's okay, I'm gonna have a great time. It's my first musical ever doing this, came out. I got Michael Banks. I was like, this score and I balled my eyes out on this bus. It just hit around me and I was like, that's a crying, but I was like, I got this great musical. - She's like, I was so upset. - Or not, I was very excited. I probably looked really upset. Yes, I was so excited and I couldn't wait to start. I have my script. I highlighted it all throughout, winner of break and I came in and I was like, I'm ready to go. I did my research. I watched where you pop in. I watched a YouTube recording of it. - I'm gonna go on a ramp, obviously. I just go in, I need to stick to my timeline so that way you can start talking. - We had our first leads rehearsal and I was really nervous because I was like, luckily Michael, does I have any solos? He sings with Jane, the basically the entire show. They always sing duets where they always sing together at the exact same time. And I was nervous because I was like, hopefully they don't have me singing my falsetto because it is not strong because he is a child. But luckily they let me sing down the octave, which was nice. We had our first choreo rehearsal and our choreographers were like, do you know your music? And I was like, yeah, I've got it. I'm locked to my ear. Okay, well, we're gonna have you sing that while we're dancing. And I'm like, oh great. So this is my first time singing, at least my solo part for "Dolly Holiday" and for all these people. And I was just so nervous. My voice was shaking and I was so scared 'cause all I wanted was like approval from these people. - Yeah. - Finish that. It was great experience. Loved Ray Poppins met so many of my friends that I have today. - Mm-hmm. - But the negative aspect is I let it all go to my head. And I was like, yeah, I'm the first one who had two leads and I'm this, this, this, and that. And I'm gonna be the new theater's big star. That summer. - Sorry. - I think it was like a high school theater. Like, it's wow. - High school theater is like everything. High school theater is like, - I love it. - You admitted it.
- Yeah, I was really, oh my gosh. I was a CUNX Tuesday. Like, I literally was so bad. It was awful. And I think back to it now, and there are people still to the say that I literally would go to them. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I don't even know what was happening. - It's just 'cause I'm here. - Oh my gosh, it was probably the competitiveness from sports, as I was like, I always wanted to be the best on the team. - Yes. - And now I'm top something that I'm really good at. - Yeah. - So, softener when you came around, we did another play. It was great, but this time, I didn't get the part that I auditioned for, and I was like, heartbroken, but I still had a really big role and had a great experience doing that. The musical that year was Susa Cole, which is, well, it's that. - Step over it. - 'Cause that's where I come in. - Yes. - Like, you don't even, yeah. - So, Susa Cole, I'll stop here for a second because there's a little something that I want to talk about. Susa Cole, there's a character named JoJo. Have you ever seen Susa Cole? - No. - It's all Dr. Sus books, and they intertwine into the woods. It's into the woods on Dr. Sus cocaine. Like, yeah. So, all these stories intertwine and come together. So, JoJo is the little boy that Horton hears a who that he talks to, and JoJo is one of the main leads. And I was like, he's a little boy. It's perfect. I was like, got Michael last year, I got it. This isn't the bag. - Went in saying my song, and I was like, yeah. Walks out, got a call back that night for JoJo, and I was like, yeah, I'm about to snag this role. And then they had talked the last time that they did this musical. They were like, oh, like, to give more roles, we had it be two twin girls. I was like, two twin girls. Why would you ever split a little boy role into two twin girls? And, but apparently it had actually been done a lot before. But I was like, it's okay. Don't sweat it. I was like, I still got it. Went in saying my duet with my partner, 'cause they ended up making, they were like, we're probably gonna have a beat to win still off our moral role. So I was like, okay, it's fine. - And there are twins in the cat in the hat book, so it makes sense to have, you know. Well, the next day the castus came out. I was on the bus, and by this time, I was like, I'm turning my phone on, do not disturb. This is castless time. The only notification that comes through is that band notification, 'cause we used a band app. - Yeah. - And I had also seen texts that I do not disturb. Like, congrats, congrats. I was like, okay, I'm gotten. It opens the app, looks at JoJo, two girls. I was like, okay. - Okay. - All right, went down. Oh, I'm nowhere on the list. And then I kept going, I went through all the ensemble and I was nowhere, and I was like, what the heck? Did I not even get casted? Went back up, went down, and there's these four, like supporting male parts that are called the Wickersham brothers. And it's these like monkeys from the Jungle of Nul where we're in lists. And I was Wickersham number one. And I was like clutching my seat, waiting to get home. And I walked my driveway as long. So I walked my entire driveway, gone to my house, closed the door, and I just screamed, a fucking monkey. I was lifted and I was like, oh, they're gonna to move me from having pre-leads to having a freaking subway, funky, I was so grateful. Oh my God, it was a mess. Oh, that's okay. With short rehearsals. I was like, I'm not gonna enjoy this. This is just a throwaway musical. This is a filler one. And I'm having one of the best times of my life 'cause musicals so fun. It's all dancing, it's all sung through. Oh wow. It's very, so colorful. It's so fun. Such a fun musical. And I had a great time. That was really one of the moments of where I'd like, at this point in my life, I really kind of straight away from having male friends because I just assumed they want nothing to do with me because I was gay. So I had no guy friends. Okay. And it was so difficult to ask. I was actually gonna ask about that. About your friendships in high school. Only girls, strictly. Because I was like, they understand me and like, they guys will, or they're gonna think that I'm in love with him, or like I was afraid that I would get a crush on them. And that was like my biggest fear to have a crush on a guy who wasn't in love with me. Well, it wasn't until Susie Cool that I started becoming friends with more guys and like letting more guys in. And it was specifically guys who did arts. You know, they're already open with this in general. And it was great. And I was like, well, I love having guy friends. It's nice because like there is a lot of things that women do understand, but there's things that I don't understand about being a woman that I can't relate to. So you guys are talking about, you know, like what it's like to like the experience of being a woman. And I'm like, little fem day over here. So it's harder. Like, you know, you go to the bathroom and I have to stand outside. So it's like, it's hard having like, no male friends. So then that summer, it was released that a little theater business would be doing Mean Girls the Musical. And I was like, Mean Girls, I love that movie. I was like, I'm obsessed. And I was like, I have to do it. In the summer before they were doing the summer before they were doing high school musical. And I tried to audition for that, but I had vacation right in the middle and the director had emailed me. She was like, so sorry, but we can't let you do it because you're going to miss a whole week of rehearsal and the rehearsals for that were like five hours a day. It's very, yeah, it's very, so I was like, okay, it's fine. I'm going to try and do Mean Girls, but I'm telling my mom to clear all of the lies so I can do it. - We are not going to be questions. - Oh yes, the Aver would tell me. - Yes. - Yeah, we can't do anything from this day to this day. So I did all my research. I looked up the roles that in the show. And of course, like going in, I was like, I want to be Regina, but I probably can't because I don't know this director and who knows if she would let me even think about auditioning for Regina. Also for Regina is a powerhouse belter and I'm a tenor. So like, not going to happen. But there was a role for Damian, which is the gay bus friend in the show. And I was like, finally, a role that I can play that is for queer presenting person. It's not going to be hard. It's going to be easy. He's witty. It's perfect. I was like, okay, but I can't get cocky because this happened the last time. And I got cocky and I didn't get the role that I wanted. So I tried not to let it get to my head. My friend Trinity, you know, Trinity, go, shut up, Trinity. Shut up, Trinity. - I'm a girl. - I want to live. - I love her. She had done high school musical. I was like, okay, girl, what's the competition? Tell me the cop that I need to look out for. What does she say? She said you. She said, wow. - Anthony Williams is definitely a shoo in because he's from Harris and he's openly queer and very fam. And so he would be good for that role. - Shut up, Trinity. Shut up. - I love you doing exactly what I said myself up for. - And then she was like, it's just him though. And I remember this was like during spring break. The musical had passed. The summer musical was announced. And I was on spring break. I literally remember this. Oh my god, it was yesterday. It's like, oh, coming back to me. I was in the line for Avatar, the new Avatar ride. And I'm like texting her about it. And then she was like, Anthony Williams. So I was like, Instagram, let me go through. - I don't go this part. - I was like, I need a figure out everything. I was like, I'm gonna look at it. - Oh my god. - I was like, wait, do I need to take a voice lesson? - It gets to this point. - It's your voice lessons. - So just get ready. 'Cause I did, I took voice lessons for this role. I was like, I have to get it. I was like, I really need it. I was like, this is perfect for me. And I saw him and I was like, oh, he's T. Whatever. And. (laughing) Whatever. - That's fine. - What? - Man. - Man. - Man. (laughing) - Which I was like, oh, this is the guy who played Harold Hill a music man, 'cause we went to go see music man during Susical. - That's, yeah. - And I was like, oh my gosh, another openly queer person who is in theater, that is like it. Honestly, it's very fun. - Love that you did it. - Yeah. - Like doing music man. Love that you didn't know. - Yeah, did not know. - So satisfying for me. Because it is a big plus to be a queer person in theater who can play a straight role. And you hear from the audience that they had no idea that you were gay. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's a big plus, which is funny that we've been trying to hide our awareness. But in theater, it's the magic. - Yeah. - So I had heard about him. I got to meet him after I saw music man. And I was like, I was like, he was like meeting celebrity. I was like, oh my gosh. - Oh my gosh. - He was like, oh my gosh. Like you're just so cool. Like I was in awe. And then I remember going up to him and I was like, train, can you introduce? - Yeah. - I remember that. - Yeah, she was like, this is Noah. And I was like, hi. And you were like, hi, Gwyn. I know exactly who you are. And I was like, the way I genuinely like, yes, did he win anything by? - I was just like, anything by. But I was like, oh, okay. And I said, my life's like second. But I was like, okay. My bad. I was like, we need to fend off. I was like, you are amazing. You did amazing. I was like, you are so cool. Don't spill too much about our friendship. Yeah. (laughing) Then had auditions for Mean Girls in about a few days prior. Train was like, this guy is auditioning for Mean Girls. She sent me an Instagram reel. And it was his name's Braylon, you know, Braylon. - Oh, yeah. - And I was like, oh shit, another competition. So I looked at Apple. And it was like a video of him singing from Instagram. And I was like, oh, wow, he's like really good. I was like, actually, no, he's not gonna. I'm just as good. And I was like, I can probably be par with him, you know, whatever. And then I started like letting the demons creep in. - Oh no. - And he looks like Damien. - Oh. - And he has like the Damien look. He's also openly queer. And I was like, oh god. I was like, no, no. I was like, but just go in.
Have a good time, you know, you were not even in the ensemble. I had a, honestly, the role that I had in "Susco" was big. Like, it really was not that bad. There's a big part, too. - It was like, if there's the villain, it was like the second lead after the villain. Like, it really was, I, but I considered it like, (laughing) what was the lowest ensemble? Like, I don't know why. I just, wow, it was really full of myself. - That's fine. - I got it. - It's okay, we all have these moments. - Yes. - We did audition for Mean Girls. I think I got a call back. I did get a call back. I got a call back. - No, I didn't. - That's the same idea. - Because they did early casting. And this is the first time that I had ever done early casting for a show. - Oh, I'm sorry. - And they, it's okay. It's all right, so. - They casted Damien that night. And I heard and I was like, I was heartbroken. And I was like, you know what, it's okay. What is meant for me will not pass me by. - I was like, oh. - It's so cool. - Yeah, I was like, you know what, it's okay. I got a call back for Aaron, who's the boyfriend. Went into that call back. Anthony also got a call back for Aaron. And I was like, I'm probably not gonna get it. And I was like, it's okay if it ain't, it's okay because I'd rather it be, then it'd be the other guy. - It's so sweet. - And it actually ended up being the other guy. - So it did. - Neither of us got it. - It did. - Luckily for me. - What did you get? - I got. - What was it? - I was in the play. - I was Shane Omen and you were Jason Weaver. - Weaver? - No, not Weaver. (laughing) - Jason Weaver. - And we're seeing women. - They were. - Um, wow, who are best friends and the best friends? So every day we would have her rehearsal together and we were also specialty dancers. - The only two guys specialty dancers. - The only two dancers. - Yeah. - So the dancers. It was a great time. I loved being an ensemble, especially for that show. That show was so fun to be an ensemble in 'cause it's all comedy. So you know. - Yes. - It was great. Him and I were getting closer and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. And it was like, I finally have someone who understands me who is openly queer, who is feminine too, because it was very hard to find someone who is openly feminine, who loves just like everything about me and I love everything about him. And it was just perfect. There was only one moment during me and girl so I was like, let me sit down and we were dancing on stage. I was across the stage and I had a meeting. - Oh my gosh, no, yes. - I had a PhD and I danced so. Like I truly, like when I'm on stage and we're doing rehearsals, the director would even yell at me sometimes, she's like, you have to chill. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm really trying, I really can't like sit. So I'm like, I'm like sitting down and I'm like tapping my feet. I'm like doing a time step. We were sitting on opposite sides and he was Noah. Knock it off. And I was like, I have to interject. I was just coming off of the high of being the president, the lead. - The president, the lead. Multiple leads. - We'll get there, but it was all, and also having his moment. - My little wife. - My baby game. At that time. - Okay. - Or segment. - I love it. - I'm gonna talk about queer family trees. - Oh my gosh, chosen family. - Oh. - Choosing family. - Oh. - Yeah, your birth given family. - Yeah. - My mom, Robin, my dad, great-grandfather. - Yes. - And you had your chosen family. - I love it, chosen. - Love it, chosen family. - I can always talk about that. - The best chosen family. - So in the queer community, you're from New York. So you know about Ballroom. - I've lived here. - For you, you lived in New York, but you know about Ballroom. - Yes. - Yes. - So you know about Drag. - Yes. - Have you ever watched RuPaul's? - Yes. - Yes. - So you know Drag Mons. - Yes. - And Drag Daughters. There is like not a hierarchy, that's why I say like, feel that it's green. So you have a Drag Mother. And the Drag Mother's Drag Daughters or Daughter is usually the ones that they like train to become a Drag Queen. And this all came from Ballroom, which was created like 60s, 70s, but really blew up in the 80s and became popular. - 80s. - Yeah, with the AIDS epidemic. And so families and chosen families were like all queer people had, especially in larger cities. So Ballroom was huge. Drag Mother can have Drag Daughters. And the Drag Daughters can have Daughters. And then there's a grandmother. So during this time, I'd known a little bit about like queer culture and aunt was like, mother. I was like, drag mom. And so now like in our community, like just having people that you can look up to is amazing. And then also being your friends is even better. It's absolutely amazing. So whenever I had questions about being gay or being queer, I would absolutely-- - I mean, we're on to aunt. Like, spraysing like, like, I didn't know anything about anything. Because like my parents didn't know anything. So they can't educate me. - Yeah. - And you don't learn about a health. - You don't learn about a school. You have to learn all by yourself, which is one of the things that I was not ready for. So having someone who does know about it and did educate themselves, it's amazing. - Yeah. - Totally. - And willing to share that information. - Yes. - Totally absolutely. - Absolutely. - Absolutely. - So then we stayed good friends. He ended up moving to Chicago. And I was like, okay, it's fine. Whatever. - He was following. - He was following. - He was following. - And then we'll become friends again. - Bullying was a huge for me in high school. There would be guys who would walk past me. And, wow. I'm saying like not huge as if like calling someone the slur is not huge, but it really is. It's just not huge to me because water of a duck's back. I tried to let it just slide 'cause my mom was like, you were always better than them. The people who talk down to you. - This is true though. - Yeah. - You are better than the people that talk down to you. - Down. - So guys who have passed me in the hallway and just be like, say the F slur at me and whisper it. I'd be like, did I hear that right? Am I crazy? I would cry, let it go. It's fine. Junior year. I finally have my license earlier that year. It started school that a month and I'm driving to school. I've worked in the parking lot and I'm walking up and I hear someone, can I say it? 'Cause I just, yeah. I hear someone yell, "Faggot." And I was like, "What the fuck?" I was like, "Can't be me." And I was like, "Yeah." I can't be the only one out here though. Just like me. I was like, maybe they're just saying it with their friends, you know whatever. I keep walking and they say it again. I don't know what. I'm walking behind and it's just like, I kept walking and I heard someone say, he probably didn't hear it. You gotta say it louder. Oh. And I was like, oh my god. I was like, I was like, I'm gonna get shot. I was like, "Do you want me to get killed in this parking lot?" And I was like, I just don't say anything. Just keep walking because all throughout elementary school and all through middle school, I always had a support system which is great. My girlfriends always fought my battles for me. I didn't have to fight a single battle. But that made me not be able to know how to defend myself. So they kept saying it until I got about 20 feet away from the door and thank the Lord above. We always had teachers have spots that 30 minutes before school started where they would just like stand there like watch the bathrooms, make sure nobody's smoking, you know whatever. I walk in and I'm like, do I just let it go or do I tell someone? And I was like, I should tell someone because this is more serious than people just whispering in the hallway. 'Cause your fear set in. Yes, I was shaking. Yeah. The first teacher that I saw and I was like, the people behind me, like I'm pretty sure that they just slurt me out and they're like, what? I was like, yeah. I kept walking and I was like, okay, I'm fine. Dull with it. Good. First battle fought. I was like, great. I go to class. But also that takes a lot of courage to go to someone that you don't even know what their thoughts and views and opinions are about. They can be like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. That was a risky moment. It is. So I go to class. My first period was math at this time and the teacher gets a call and she answers it that she looks at me. She looks like the phone. She's like, y'all sent him down. I was like, can't be me. She comes under me. She's like, they want you in the main office. Mr. Walchins. I was like, okay. And Mr. Walchins, I'm pretty sure, deals with discipline. So I was like, what did I do? I'm like walking down to the office, thinking about every bad thing I've ever done in my entire life. I get down there and he's like, sorry, I heard about an incident that happened this morning where you were called the Eftler three times. Yep, that was me. He was like, we looked up the camera as we identified the people the most we can do is suspend them for a day. I was like, okay, if that's all you can do, then a guess that's fine. Mm-hmm. Left and I was like shaking and Trinity's mom works at the school and she had seen me and she was like, are you okay? And I broke down to her and she let me sit in her office for the rest of the period. And I was like, okay, I think I'm good. What are for ducks back? Got called down the office the next day. Oh. And they brought in one of the kids and had me sit in the office with him. And I was like, so scared, 'cause I went to middle school with this kid. So this kid knows me personally from when I came out until now. This is four years later. He was like, I'm so sorry for my friends. I was like, oh, you're sorry? And he was like, yeah, like they're such douche bags. I told them not to do it, but they did it anyway. And you know, you reap what you sow. And I was like, yeah, you do. I was like, you got suspended for a day. Is it that did anything? Oh, wow. No, he's definitely not gonna say that, Slur. That was nice to have an apology, but I mean, not from the person that's still in general, it was nice. And that honestly was the last time I'd been slurred out since then. Ever had a problem in school after that. Yeah. Junior year goes by, I did booting the beast. I didn't get the role that I wanted for fall play that year. Just so stupid that I was mad about it 'cause I had a great time and I loved the role that I had. And that's when I liked was like, I really just have to accept the rules that I get because I can't be upset and let it drag down my experience. I auditioned for Footloose, that Civic that year, 'cause my friend Trinity, you should do it. I did that work for Footloose. You did? Yes, yes you did. I was the artist. I did, that's so beautiful. Yeah. And I loved Footloose as a kid. I loved it.
love that movie, my parents exposed me to all pop culture from the '80s and I had a huge '80s obsession in middle school and I was like, I don't know if I should do it, like you know whatever and she was like, do it. I did not get casted at all in photos. Didn't even get on sample. And I was like second below audition for Being the Beast. I really wanted Beast because I was like, I just want something new. I was like, I hate playing these comedic, funny, beautiful characters. Like, right. I was like, so bad. I was like, I want to be the scruffy, straight guy. I was like, I don't know why, but it was just like, I feel like I had something to prove. So I auditioned for Beast and I was like, I did so much homework. I looked up everything about the movie because I loved the movie as a kid. I looked up the show. I looked at background stuff. I even got acting lessons with the director that I worked with from the summer show and Mean Girls because she did acting lessons. I was like, okay, I'm ready. I was like, I'm not going in thinking that I'm getting it. I'm just going to put in my arm. Ended up getting a callback for Beast, but I also ended up getting a callback for Lumiere and everybody was like, you're going to get Lumiere, you're going to get Lumiere and I was like, no, not. I'm not going to get it. And I was like, I don't want that. It's an amazing role to have. Anyway, so I was like, I don't want that role. And didn't end up getting casted as Beast. I was so depressed. And I don't even know why. I ended up getting casted as Lumiere. And it was one of my dream roles. I was so upset that I was casted as Lumiere and I let it drag out through the entire rehearsal process until the week before tech week. I was like, I hate this. I'm not going to enjoy this. Like, I was so mad every time I showed up to rehearsal as like, I hate this process. Like, I don't want to do this. Like, because I was so devastated about not getting this role. And I think I was just mad that I didn't get my chance to prove something. It wasn't until we did our costume rehearsal because when you rent costumes, you don't get them until the week before your show, your opener. You don't get them until that week before. We tried on our costumes and I was like, oh my God. Wow, like, this is beautiful. I love this costume. And I was like, this is stunning. And we just go see Little Shop at Harrison. And I was watching it and I was like, oh my God, everybody has like a role. And they just look like they're having an amazing time and they love it. Which is funny. This is my third year doing theater. And I didn't like really let that sink in. I was so focused on like me instead of like the show as a whole. It wasn't until opening night, we did like cameos where like the characters would come out and their costumes instead of like taking off your costume. Right after the show, you would come out and take pictures with audience members. Like crowds of people were coming up to me. And they were like, you were so good. You were perfect, Lumiere. And even that director who did the summer shows that I didn't, she came out to me and she was like, you stole the show. You were like one of the best people and I was saying really? I was like, I think. So I was like, I really didn't think that I was because I was like, had such an awful, awful time quotes around that because it was a great time. Awful time doing it. And it wasn't until closing night. I was taking off my costume. And I was like, why did you sabotage yourself to that whole experience that you could have enjoyed? And that fun. Playing one of your favorite roles and one of your favorite musicals. For one of your mom's favorite musicals. Oh. Hey parents, showed up every night in the first row wearing Lumiere T-shirts. And my family came out every night. I always had the first row for a year. This is why you're here. You're like invisible string theory. I can't wait. Yes, that's crazy. Like my, like, low, this is like, think the biggest crowd of my family that would come to see me. And I was like, why did I sabotage myself to have an awful experience when this is one of my favorite things to do. And it's also a passion of mine. And I was like, so mad at myself, like taking down my, like, sat in the dressing room. I was like, you idiot. I was like, he's so stupid. I was like, I'm not. And then I like, everyone was out of the dressing room. I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, no more. I was like, you're not. So I was like, you're so-- I just wanted to applaud you. Because it's probably like the third time that you have talked about something you perceive as doing wrong or not. But you see it every time. Yeah. Most people don't learn from their mistakes or what-- I'm even calling a mistake. But you are very self-aware. Thank you. And even though you were being self-tra-- I mean, you're a teenager. Yeah. I-- You know? Yes. Do you want to hear about my junior? No. Honestly, yes. You're a junior. You're a junior. You know. You're a high school. Yes, junior. I was a junior. I just wanted to point that out. I think that is an amazing skill to have. You have that much self-awareness to realize something in the moment. Thank you. That is huge. I appreciate it. I will literally leave it all. OK. Yes, I need to applaud myself. But I got to give it to therapy. My mom put me in therapy. The moment that I came out, yes, therapy. And she put me in therapy not to fix me, but to have someone to talk to about me. Yeah. Because she still wanted me to come to her, but she was like, I want you to have someone that understands the queer community. So you have someone to talk to about it. And so, yeah, I have therapy. It's amazing. eighth grade freshman year, sophomore year, junior year, and senior year. And then I even did it in my first year of college. I still do it for the-- Yes. I love therapy. I love therapy so much. I love talking about myself every day. It's great. So did beating the beast. I was like, no more. I was like, I don't even care if I get a small role. Every role matters. And like, to this day, I'm like, that is so true. And it is. Yeah. It is amazing. And you can find joy in any art that you do. And I'm guessing that is something-- I mean, I've never done theater, but do you have theater kids? You do art, though. Yes. But I think it's something you kind of all go through as an artist. It's very-- Absolutely. You know, you're very instillers about me. My art, my clothes. And then as you keep doing it, as you mature, you realize, oh, wait a minute. It's not just about me and my craft. It's about sharing your gifts and your story. And the community. And yeah, you don't realize that until-- I mean, I don't think I've learned that until I was four years old. But-- Yeah. And I'm still learning things now. So I think you will always learn, which is the art and pursuing art. Soxata doesn't pay that much. Yeah, I know it doesn't. It's also one of the most vulnerable things that you can do as a human being, which is crazy. Pay us more. Pay us more. Yes. Yes. We do so much. And do you hear us now? Please, yes. After beating the beast, my mom and I-- Short little snippet. My mom and I went on vacation a lot where it was just her and I. Not because my dad didn't want to, but because my dad was always working. So my mom and I would always have mama Noah trips. What we called them? Where it would just be us to invocation. Or sometimes we would bring a friend. So we had a mama Noah trip. And I had packed on my stuff. And we went. It was a great time. We were visiting colleges. We went to Chicago. We went to New York. We went to-- I went on to visit Yoldo Sasiad. I didn't think that I would get in. But I was like, yeah, let's go bigger. Yeah. It was a great trip. I was starting to experiment with more fashion. And there was a time in the past where I was not allowed to get nails. Right now I have them on. I was not allowed to get nails. I was not allowed to wear crop tops. I was not-- like my parents did not want me doing these things. And I would get so mad at them. My mom and I ended up having a talk. I think it was the end of my junior year, where I was like, I don't understand. I was like, can we talk about this? I was like, you won't let me wear a crop top. You won't let me wear a feminine clothing. I'm like scared to even step onto the feminine side of a store. Like go to Tilly's and go on the left side because I'm scared to grab anything. But like I'm over here grabbing the men's jersey as I'm staring at that cute little red square neck top that I could look so good in. And I was like, why? I was like, why? And she was like, she broke down. And I was like, I'm not trying to be rude. Like I really am not trying to be mean to you. But I just don't understand. And I was like, you've come to me about questions about the career community. And I educate as much as I can because one of the things that I took out on myself was I wanted to be educated about my own community because this is finally something that I have. That's like, yes, I love. Sorry, it's like, you come to me about questions. This is my question for you. It's because I didn't want you to get hurt. She was like, you've come to me so many times crying about people like talking about you. She was like, I just didn't want you to get hurt. I didn't want you to be. It's not that I didn't want you to be who you wanted to be, but I didn't want you to get hurt in the process. And I was like, you can't protect me. Yes, we live in one wrap our little babies and like, it's a ran wrap. And I'm probably gonna be nasty with her. And so I'm gonna be extreme and sexually like, tell yourself. Great, here we go. I was like, see, I just thought it was this whole time that you were home with a full bag. I was like, I'm gonna be completely honest. I thought, she was like, no, I'm not seeing that. And I was like, because you told me not to be who I am. And I was like, this is who I am. I was like, I love feminine clothing. And I'm like, I'm not gonna wear, I don't want to wear skirts because they make me feel uncomfortable, but I love wearing cop tops because I just feel like in my skin. Yeah. It just feels like a blessing. And like, I would do it behind her back, of course, 'cause you know, rebellious, deem. So go over to a friend's house, they dress up and I'm like, oh, this conflict's so good on me. And she was like, and I wanna get my nails done. She was like, why? She was like, they're so gross. You like, and I was like, and I wanna get my ears pierced. She was like, okay. It was hard for her not because it was weird for her, but because she didn't want me to get hurt. Like I said, can I ask you, like, can I just please have this one thing? She was like, okay, but if you're gonna do it and you're gonna do it for yourself,
I'm gonna say that you have to pay for it for yourself. And I was like, deal. Okay. And I wanted to start doing makeup. - I tell my dad to, I'm like, "If you want to do it, you go into Sephora." I'm like, "Uh-huh, it's a sexist." - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - It's a new dollars for a mascara. - Yeah. Oh yeah, make up was another thing that I was not allowed to do. I was like, "Okay, fine." So I got a job. I already had had jobs by this time, but I spent my money like it was here. Like I literally, it came in the savings, putting the checking right out in point three seconds. So I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna save up my money and I'm gonna buy more makeup products and stuff." Started doing it and she was like, "Wow, you look beautiful." And I was like, "Thank you." - Oh, that's so important. - And the transition from Anthony probably might really do this. So transition from getting called handsome to beautiful while still being a man is so like empowering, yes, and monumental. It's like, "Okay, I have to say this now." I was like, "Do I say this is weird?" - Yeah, I know, I know. - I love that please. - Please. - Amy can attest to this, but I did refer to you. I'm like, "No, it is a beautiful boy." - I didn't even thought. - He is. Hello, good morning. - Thank you, hello, good morning. - And I didn't know your name. - You were like, "No, no, please, look." - That beautiful boy. - That beautiful boy. - And look, that beautiful boy. - I was like, "Call it as it is." And this is when I really like, this is a big chemical shift for me because I was like, wow, okay. Now the world is my oyster. I can get what I want, I can buy what I want. And I was like, "It's so hard because we grow up in a society where it's like, I can't even be mad at like, Gen X Community and Millennial Community because it is a portion of it is you grow up this way. - Yeah. - But you have to take in the initiative that you live in 2026. - Yeah. - And this is not to like, hate on my mom. - I'm just saying in general. - No, no, it's even with the generation before me. - Exactly. - And all things taking the initiative to learn and educate yourself. - Yeah. - I mean, it's just important. - It is very hard. - It takes a lot for an adult to realize, oh, I don't know about this. I'm not educated in this, whatever topic. And I need to go learn about it. - I'm learning a habit that you've had for 20, 30 years. - It's like, it's impossible. - Yeah. - Well, it's not impossible. - That's how you have therapy. - Yeah, you have to get therapy. For some family members, when I would educate them about non-binary people, I am myself, I'm not personally non-binary, that's it right now. But when I had to educate them, like they didn't get it. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna teach it to you this way and like we'll slowly implement it. And it just takes time. I used to not have patients at all. And now I feel like I have a lot of patients specifically when it comes to something that matters to me so much. - Yeah. - So yes. But I also realized is things are not girl things and boy things, they are feminine and masculine. And I think the thing in society that we don't understand is that we assume that girl things have to be feminine and boy things have to be masculine. But they really don't. They do not have all. - They don't. - And I was like, one of the things that I love about myself is I love that I am so feminine and I am and draw genus. I have feminine features and masculine features both at the same time. But I also love that I can just be a man. I don't have to like transition. I don't have to be a woman because I am feminine. I can still be a man to be feminine. Love the dolls. Love the transgender girls. Because that's the thing that people don't understand. - Shout out to the dolls. The thing that people have a, not a problem, but misunderstand about me is that they do think that I am trans because I present more femininally. Just because you present femininally, it doesn't mean that you have to be transgender. Gender is an identity, but it's also a spiritual thing. - Completely a girl. - It is something that you feel. I thought about it. I absolutely 100% thought about it. - Absolutely. - People have asked me if I've considered transitioning and I'm fully open. I'm like, yeah, I have thought about being a girl, but I'm like, that doesn't feel right for me. - Yeah. - I love being a man. I just have no other way to put it. And who knows, maybe 20 years in the future, I might find something and I'm like, maybe I will transition, but as of right now, I really don't see that happening because I love, I love walking in heels down the street and going by he/him. - So, love it. - Yes. - I love it. It's a power. - It is a power. - It's a great thing. - When I was in design school, my specialization was tailoring. - So, yeah. - So, I love that. - And this little Italian man taught us to make suits by hand. - Oh my God. - And so, going into that specialization, it was never like, oh, suits are for men. No, we were making suits for mostly women, most of our models. - Yes. - For women. - Totally. - And that is something with my daughter, like now that she's starting to explore, like her fashion sense. You know, we talk about the shoes. - I love her out. - Yes. - Yes. - She's like, oh my gosh. - She's like, no, wear. - I love her. - I love that. - It's so good. - She's on catch the other day. All dressed up. I'm like, oh my gosh, where are you going? She's like, no, wear. - I love it. - I love that. - Shout out to my baby capuaries. - I'm wearing a uniform. It was very like, oh, you're wearing a tie? I'm like, yes, it's gorgeous. - Yeah, Tony. - I'm wearing this tie with my suit jacket. - Yes, absolutely. - Oh, I love it. Fashion is absolutely the first thing that should not be categorized by male and female, which is hard. We could have multiple podcasts. - I know. - I know. - I know. - We could. - I got to keep showing, but why is that? - Because I will go on so many tanges. - I've already decided I'm going to, we're going to do, we're going to break this up in several episodes. - Sending. - I love it. - Beautiful. - Love it. - Love it. - Perfect. - Great. - So do I. - Yes. - Here we go. Okay. Now, did Mamma Mia that year for the summer musical? Had a great time. Anthony was the assistant director. Gotta become so much closer with him that summer, which is so funny because you would think that someone who is at the same status level because we both cast members. And now he was an assistant music director that it would be like a power imbalance, but Anthony always made sure to make friends and give me attention, but also let me know. This is his job. (laughing) - So. (laughing) - Yeah. - There's a balance. - There it is. - Then. - Yeah, there's a balance. - Senior year. - Oh my gosh. (laughing) Sorry, something just came to me. - Go. - I have to go back just like three more months. Okay. That's not funny. - That's not funny. - Senior year. Around this time that I had this big realization that I wasn't going to worry about theater in my personal life. Because I consider theater a passion and also work. And my personal life, my friends and I were having a problem. - Oh. - My friends were really messing with the jokes that I was making. In the queer community, I was watching a lot of drag race. And you know, when drag race, they love to clock and they love to read a sister down and like say what's wrong about them, but it's all jokes. It's all fun. - I see. - And I was taking that. - Yeah. - He was using it in rule Indiana, rule Midwest. - Did not. - It did not sit well with some people. And some of the things I will say though, I also didn't understand. And so I was just saying them just to say that. - Right. - Because I thought I was being cocky and fun and funny. But there were imbalances on either side. They didn't understand that this is the drag culture. And this is the culture that I surround myself with. So it's an educational standpoint. But it's also a, hey, you need to know when like you offend people and where the line is. I was saying a lot of things that were just out of pocket. Like rude and I would just be like, you're off its ugly. And it's like, great. That makes me feel great about myself. - Oh my god. - I'm more in high school and insecure and like one thing can be where you're in tired day. So it's like, I would just say things. And I was just like, oh god, you know, this is horrible. Our friends during and around after beating the beast, we kind of just started like, we would hang out and it would just be like fights and just like rude. - Oh, yeah. - I'm so done. Like I hate hanging out with these people. I don't know why I do it. There was one time we hung out and it was right before my big trip. And I literally left early because I was like, I can't be here. I was like, I don't feel welcome. This will sound welcoming. And I was like, it's all you guys. It's not me. I ended up going on a two week yellow stone road trip with my family. - Oh. - And one of my best friends, Michaela, shout out my Michaela, was home for a week. Then went to a three week acting intensive in interlocking Michigan, which I've heard of this. - It's a love interlocking. - It was no personality for two years. - It was my personality for two years. - There's that clocking thing that we just talked about. - That clocking thing. Yeah. It's just, oh my gosh, I would come back. Like Mama Mey rehearsals. I'm like, yeah, you know interlocking arts. - It's for the elite actors. - Little in high school. 'Cause this like the arts can't produce so many people. Like Nora Jones went there for music writing. They have, it's all are all physical. - Wow. - Singing, acting art, musical theater art. - Art art. - It's all of them. - Instruments, it's everything. And they produce so many artists. Like Chappell Rohn went there. - Oh wow. - Chappell Rohn was two dorms, two cabins down for me when she was there back in like 2014. Yeah, I was like, it was insane. So many artists would just come up and be like, I don't know, I don't know. There was so many. It was awesome. It was a great time and a great de-stress because I didn't have my phone.
We weren't allowed to have somethings. And it's in a cabinier cabin with 12 other boys. And but they all do art. So it's like, you know, it's fine. Oh, it was a great time. And I was so many good friends. And it was in Michigan. So it's beautiful right on the lake. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. If I could relive those three weeks, I would. It was great. It was beautiful. Like before the July happened, it didn't even feel real. 'Cause I felt like I was in an alternate reality. Like it was perfect. Everything was perfect. It was great. It was beautiful. If you ever consider sending your kids to interlocking, they also dance there. It's crazy. They have everything. If you ever consider sending your kids to interlocking, I highly recommend it. Did that. So wasn't on my phone for Yellowstone was home for a week. Wasn't on my phone for three more weeks. My friends ended up texting me and they're like, are you okay? And I was like, I'm not talking to you. I'm like, I was like, this is, I was like, I hate everyone. There's like nobody likes me. But it really had time for me to like sit and I think with myself and be like, you know, maybe they are right. When I went to interlocking, I had met some people that joked the way that I did. The at me. Mm. And I was like, oh. Oh. Or other people. And I was like, oh, that is rude. And I saw how it affected them. I would watch them walk away after they said that. Not only am I here to gain an experience, but there's also a lesson to be learned here. Especially from beating the beast, I like thought about all those lessons that I had learned. And I was like, everything that I do is going to be a lesson in an experience. Totally. So I took that and I was like, oh my God, they were right. But this time I didn't cry. And I was like, I want to make a change. And I was like, OK, I really just need to think about myself, think about what I say and just filter it. I ended up calling my friend Trinity, because we didn't talk for a month and a half. Oh my gosh. And I was like, I want to talk to you. And I want to apologize. And I want to apologize to everyone else because I know what happened. And she was like, we all talked. And we also want to apologize. Oh. I was like, OK, did my mom and me all of me. It was great. Had a great time. Senior year was coming up. And I was like, I just want this year to be perfect. I was like, everybody talks about how amazing senior year is or awful. It's either one or the other. It's never in the middle. And I was like, I just wanted to be perfect. And I want to have a good time, because there's so many things to look forward to. Senior sunrise, there's senior cook out. There's so many events and special things to be a senior. The first did fall play, got the lead. I was like, wow, OK, well, this really is true to you. You don't even have fun. You were the only one that I was. Yes. I don't know why I didn't know that. It was a play again. Girl crazy. It's a play adaptation of the movie of the same name starring Judy Garland. And then it was adapted into a musical called Crazy for You. But same-ish, similar as plot. Did you have this a little bit? It's stunning. But it was OK. So at a great time, it was with my friends. We had our group. We were stronger than ever. My friend Chris-- Shut up, Chris. Chris. And I-- Same brain as well. --weroomed together at this choir retreat that we had called I Will. We roomed together our junior year as well. Like, we're not the closest of friends, but he had just joined choir. And so we roomed together, because he was also gay. And I'm sure you guys are going to want to move with me. They're going to think that I'm going to go with them. So I was like, let's do it. We roomed together. We started talking. We had never really talked before. And then we ended up staying up until 1am, talking about queerness, life. And he was like, can I tell you something? And I was like, sure. He was like, I used to hate you. I was like, are you serious? And he was like, I used to hate you first when you're-- and it's especially sophomore year. I was like, I knew I was evil, but I didn't realize I was that evil. He was like, you're so mean. I was like, oh my god. I was like, I'm so sorry. I was like, I don't even know what I said. But I'm so sorry. He was like, there was only one thing that you said to me that I was like, absolutely not. And I was like, oh god, what was it? And he was like, we were at the lockers. And you said, you turned to me and you said, you know I'm the better gay, right? And I was like, no one bad word. I know. Mommy, please don't turn to me. I know. It's OK. I was like, you're like 15. And the worst part about it is I don't even remember. I was like, Chris, I'm going to be completely honest with you. The worst, like, I guess a red flag that I have is if I say something and I don't mean it to be rude, it slips my brain. I didn't even mean that to like hurt your feelings and like, make you hate me until the point. You just thought you were being funny. I thought I was being funny. Yeah. It's like whatever. And when it is something that I say that's rude, I usually remember it because I'm like, I meant that, like with passion. And I was like, I'm so sorry. And I did not mean that. And if there's anything that I can do, he was like, honestly, you apologize. I think just now just healed two years of trauma. So I was like, OK, and now we're great friends. Homecoming. So we did homecoming. And I'm pretty sure, Eva, it's told you and you've seen like there's a homecoming core. Yeah. Like people run and everybody wins whatever. I only, I actually didn't run, but I wanted to be in a homecoming court so bad. Like the glitz and the glam, like wearing a beautiful outfit and getting to sit in the hot core that convertible that drives around. And you wear a little tiara and you wear a little fans. And I was like, I was like, I loved it. And I wanted it so bad. And then senior year came along. And I was like, you know what? It's senior year. Let's just go. Let's run it. Sure. Raining with one of my best friends at the time, Vanessa Kerako, shout out Vanessa. We were like, let's just run. Let's do it. We ran. And I was like, I'm probably not going to get voted because I'm openly gay. Whatever. The ballet came out and my name was on there for a nomination. I was like, oh my gosh, I made it. I was like, thank God. Then it was sent out to all the seniors and they were like, vote for who you want. See your homecoming king. See your homecoming queen. And I was like, I'm glad that I even made it. At least I get to sit in the car because once you get nominated, the nominees, the senior nominees each get to write in a car. And I think it's like five girls. So regardless, the senior nominees too, but the junior sophomore and freshman, they have like a winner who has like the most votes. So I was like, I'm just glad that I got to sit in the car. And I got to dress cute. And that's all that matters. And my mom showed up. A few of my like friends who like didn't go to my kitchen showed up just to see and watch. And I was like, I'm going to tell you I'm probably not going to win. So don't have her high hopes. Go around. They announced my name. We're what I'm doing in the future, whatever. And they didn't let me sit at the top of the car because there's only room for one. And they give it to the girl. So I was like, OK, it's fine. I'll sit in the bottom. Wait, my cute little hand. We sat in the, we stood in the line. I talked about who's going to win earlier because a lot of people were voting for like this same couple. And I was like, I know it's going to be them. So I'm excited to watch them. And we stand and they're like, here's your homecoming core. Your homecoming king is no a power. What the heck? I literally was so surprised. I was like, where's the bucket of things? That's going to spill on my head after I was like, are you serious? I walked up. My friend Vanessa ended up winning too. So we won. And I was crying. So I was like, wow, it's like, Franklin. I was like, yeah, I want to. And all my friends were screaming. And people in the stands were screaming. And it was great. And I walked out and like, people came up to me like crying. And I was like, why are they crying? You know, whatever. And my English teacher, Ms. Alba Shahn, shall I be? She came up to me. She was like, I am so proud of you because you have no idea what this means. Yeah. I'm the first openly queer person to win in Little Midwestern India. I was like, this is amazing. And it's not even like, this time it's not like amazing. And yay, I get as a surface. It's like, oh my god. Yes, I am just happy to represent something for people with-- Respe representation is so big. Oh, my god. It means so much to so many people. And like, that really sat with me. And I was like, OK, now I really can't be mean because I really have to take what I said and switch. And like, be nice because one-- Now you're a leader. Not in the leader. And I mean so much to many people. You're an example. Yeah. OK, here we go. You're a totalist. I've got to think about my ever-moved now. So senior year was great. More like baby gays. And baby gays are like what we consider people who are recently open or like have just come out of the closet. So like, technically, I was still a baby gay. But at this time, I felt like mature because I mean, high school, you feel like bigger than shit, weaker. That's the younger you're in high school. So baby gays would come to me. One of my good friends-- our good friends now, Ray Bridge, came to me and he was like, this means so much to the queer community. He was like, to see someone who's feminine. He's one wearing heels. And is wearing a crown. It's so special. And I was like, wow, this is perfect. Check one of perfect senior year. Got the lead, checked two. Quire concert was great. Got a solo, checked three. They announced the musical. And we all thought it was going to be like, Shrek, something else, and ended up being Joseph. And I was like, oh. I was like, OK. I was like a religious musical, Christian musical. This will definitely draw on the crowd. So I was like, OK, I had no hope. So I was like, here we go. But I had heard one song from the show called Close Every Door. And I knew of that prior. And I was like, OK, I know that song. I love that song. I've been singing it for two, three years now. I don't have to get this role. But I would love to have it. Joseph, if anybody knows the show, Joseph, Joseph is the lead. It's about the biblical story of Joseph. And is 12 brothers, 13, 12? It was 12. 12 brothers and his dad. But it's very campus, very Vegas. It's that story on-- I saw that you got that role. And I am so sad that I did not-- It's OK.
to see it. But I saw the pictures on Instagram and you look amazing. Thank you so much. I can only imagine what that was. I have a DVD. Do you? Yes. Yes. It's like you really do it. Recording on it. Great. I will say my country is all on top of their recordings. So. Oh my god. Even if I look to watch it. Yes. I will literally hold onto you anytime. So please do not be afraid. I will literally give to you next time. I will just carry around with me in my room. Yeah. This is what I'm like, oh, finally. It was great. Oh my god. Around that time that I got that, I was like, this is what I want to do with my life. This is absolutely what I want to do with my life. And I had known that I wanted to do film and TV acting. So I was like in elementary school. I was like, I can't see myself doing anything else. The only other passion that I had was I was like, I want to have a bakery and a daily. Yeah. A American food and paris. It's like, let's make burgers. It's like, absolutely not. Yeah, but I mean, hey, maybe we'll do great because it's like, it's like Chinese food here. Like people love Chinese food. Yes. So yeah, I don't know. So yeah. But then I was like, yeah, I wanted to film and TV because I just love the art of theater. And then doing musicals absolutely so that if I had that and added Broadway to that. And I started educating myself more on Broadway. And I was like, yeah, I was friends with a girl at the time named Izzy who I did theater with. Shout out to Zing. We did a few shows together. And she was so knowledgeable on auditions and the whole process and college. Yeah. Yeah. Everything. Peter. Yeah. Maybe she was the Google of college auditions. And so I'd always come to her with my questions. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. My parents don't know what I'm doing either because like, they like don't understand like, you know, my dad studied, got his associates in engineering, electrical engineering. And my mom got her real-ter license. So like, I don't even know that much about college let alone programs. Right. If to anybody in that process, I can't. Oh my god. Ruining that is spill all the tea. Art programs in colleges are like their own thing. It's like a sports team. It's like they're separate from the school, but they're still underneath the school. Because it's like, we are connected to the school, but we're our own like hive like our own bee hive. But the audition process is first, you have to prepare multiple monologues, which is just like a paragraph of lines one or after the other. And then quite a few songs you have and they have to be specific. So it's like golden age or contemporary and golden age is anything pre 1970. And contemporary is anything post 1970. And then there's up tempo, which is like happy songs, like your guests. And then there's a ballad, which is like close every door or like I will always love you. Like, you know, it's not like that. And you could do anything, but it is highly encouraged that you don't do something that's popular unless they're like you can sing the hell out of it. So if you can sing that hell out of divine gravity, sure. Yeah. Sing it. You know, you better impress us. And the competition isn't saying because these schools have these programs only accept 15 to 30 people. So the acceptance rate to get into the school is small. The acceptance rate to get into the program is even smaller. And you have to get into the school to be able to audition for the program. So yes. Yeah. It's insane. It's insane. And you have to send in videos. First, they're called pre screens. And you send in videos of you doing the monologues and you doing the songs. Songs. And then they tell you if they want you to come back for an in-person audition or a callback. And they you can either do them at the school. You can do them online. So you can go and fly out to Arizona to go audition for the school. Wow. Or they have these things called Unifieds. Okay. Which is yes. They have one in New York. Texas, Chicago and LA. I think it's just those. I heard of this from Warner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did it together. Oh. We both went to Chicago Unifieds. And I told my mom, I was like, I have to do this because like, I'm so sorry. It's going to be a big check out of your. We have to go because I can get them. Most of them done all in one thing. Well, I thought until I got my callbacks back. And I went to go sign up for a time slot at Unifieds and they were all filled because it's like thousands of kids. And sometimes people do them in multiple places. Like I heard of kids being like, oh yeah, I had a callback in Chicago. Then I had a callback. Oh, wow. Oh, my god. So there was like ones that were filled. I only got one college in at Unifieds. And we had already booked our hotel, booked our flight, our flight, our drive. And I was like, it's fine because you can do walk-ins, walk-in auditions where you don't even need a pre-screen. And you can just audition for the school. So I was like, I guess I'll do a few walk-ins and we'll call it a day. I had a callback for Carnegie Mellon, which is something that's a very nice school. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of great alum that went there. So I was honored to have that. Did that callback in I was so serious about theater and so serious about being the lead in Joseph that I was like, I'm going to Unifieds and Mom, we're driving back that same day. So I can make it for rehearsal. And that next weekend we were flying out to North Carolina. So I could do my callback at Elon. And I was like, we have to fly back that night so I can make the choreo rehearsal. I was like, we will make this where. Because a lot of seniors that I had talked to didn't even do their senior musical because the college audition process is so like time-consuming. It's insane. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the trenches. That's what I called it. Yes, it is. It really is. Opening night of Joseph was the first wave of offers from schools. I was like, great. Of course, here we go. And I got my email from Carnegie Mellon that my mom was like, you're not allowed to open that. I was like, now my mom is full blown theater moms. She's like, you're not allowed to open that. I was like, okay, girl. I'm sitting back there literally. They call places. The notification pops up on my phone. Oh my god. I have to see it. I opened it up. Didn't get in. And at first I was like, at first I'd like, I told myself if I'm not going to get in, it's fine. But then I saw that and I was like, oh, I really was kind of banking on this one. This is the big one. That hurts because it's like back again to R when you put something out there. Yes. It's not well received. Yes. It feels like a personal attack. Yeah. But it's not. Yeah. It just means that you weren't either wrong place. Mm-hmm. Wrong time. Right place, wrong time. Or you just weren't meant for the program because all the programs have like a personality that you could fit into. And it's that's loose. Yeah. Like personality. Yeah. A vibe. Yeah. Like I think all vibes. Yale School of Drama. And everybody's like, marital street. You have to be Shakespeare. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It has to be Shakespeare. So it's like literally. It also matters about connections. But then it doesn't. And it's like, you could be amazing and not get into the school just because they just felt a vibe was off. Mm-hmm. So it's crazy. It's even harder because then it's like, you may not even get it not because you're not good or that you are good. It's like it was a vibe. It's a vibe. We didn't feel you. Great. So my maybe this time wasn't good enough. Yeah. Thank you for laughing at that. You're welcome. It's a theater. It's a theater. It's a theater reference. But I was like, you know what? How many use this loss as a hell of a power ballad for my close every door. Yeah. And I balled on stage. And they were like, wow, you're crying or so. We're all like, great. It's like thanks because it's because I just got rejected from my dream school. Joseph was amazing. At an amazing time, not only because like I was the lead and I had a great time, but I made it my pack to talk to almost everyone in the cast and make a connection. And also make sure that I wasn't the lead who like was so self-centered because I was like a hated in the past when all I could about was me. And that's why people didn't like me. And I just wanted to make sure that everyone felt loved, especially during the time totally, but also making up time for myself. Yeah. Joseph was amazing. I ended up getting into three schools. I got into Mary Moutman-Han, which is in New York. I got into Maloy, cap 21, which is about 40 minutes outside of Manhattan. Then, Ball State. I remember telling my mom the night before my ball of state audition. I was like, I'm not going here. I'm sorry. I was like, I really just like, this is not where I want to go. I want to get outside of Indiana. I hated her. I hated it. Theater was great. I loved my experiences, but I got to go. And she was heartbroken that I wanted to leave, but I had to. Went to my audition for Ball State and absolutely loved it. I was like, shit. Visited the school twice. I've heard great things. It's amazing. I do love it there. Okay. Spoiler alert. I did get in and I did end up doing that place. The reason why I know you'd be like, what? No, why didn't you pick New York? Why did you pick home? Well, number one was price. It cost a lot to move across the country. Then, a Ford school. And a Ford to live. And pay outside of state tuition. That was one thing. Yes, one of my goals is to become famous, but it's also like, these people are famous because of their craft and also because of the connections. I wanted to school that had great connections as well. I was like, Ball State has a connection with Sun Foster who's a Broadway legend. And she was the original Fiona in track. She was the original millionth early modern mille. She was in the revival of anything goes. She's done hella stuff on Broadway. She is a professor there. She comes once a year to do a masterclass. That's huge. That is huge. That was one of the things about why I transferred. Because I didn't start off at FIT in New York. I went to Framey Hans State College in Massachusetts because it was cheap and it was, you know, you know, I'm paying for school myself. But it was
felt like Susie Holmaker sewing classes. And I'm like, this is not sexy. - It's a big challenge. - It's like a fashion I got I was gonna do. - That is. - And transferring and having that experience where your professors are actually in the industry was huge. - Oh my gosh, yes. - It's like these people, if you're good in class, do you graduate and you have a good relationship with them? They will connect you to so many people. - Yeah. - So yeah, so I was like, okay, I'm gonna visit one more time. I'm on the side if I go there. I visited, I met with a current student there, his name's Ben Adair, Chenappan. He was like, okay, girl, tell me the tea. He was like, why aren't you picking boss A, you know what? And I was like, well, I wanna hear why you picked boss A and he told me this is in that, that he liked it, based off the programs that he got into. And he was like, why aren't you? Or like, what's holding you back? 'Cause you would have accepted already, 'cause you seem like you like it. I don't wanna go to school in Indiana. - Yeah. - I have horrible seasonal depression. My only time that I'm happy is from like late spring to fall, which is barely half the year, 'cause our winters are so long. And I'm like, I just don't wanna be stuck here. That's what I'm gonna say. You can go to school in New York, have a great time, spend all your money there and have to move back home and then say about money and have to move back out. Or you can stay here, get a great education, save up your money. - I'm a relief. He was like, just because you're here now does not mean you have to be here forever. - Yeah. And then because you have that degree, you could work. - Yes. - And still pursue whatever. - Yes. - If you're doing a masters or if you're working or what, yeah. - They're only-- - That is great advice. - Yeah, he's someone who did it the other way. I wish I did it that way. - It's okay, lesson learned. - But you know, then it wouldn't be working. - Yeah. - Wow. - I took that and I ran. I was like, okay, let's go. And networking. - Yeah. - And so, which is why I came to you. - Yes. - About cast because my mom always taught me if you're gonna get anything in life, close to her, never get fed. - Yes. - So I was like, love your podcast girl. - No mom, social media. - Oh my God. - I love it. Oh my God. - She is crazy lady. God, I know. - I know, I know. - That's incredible. And I'm like, oh my God. I have to watch. She's hilarious. - She is. - She is. - She's so funny. - She's good. Can't let her have too much. - Yeah. - No. - God, I love her. I love that woman. And especially my senior year, my mom and I became so close. Like, well probably because she knew I was leaving. So you know. - Yeah. - And we had so many talks about like life and just like about her past. And like whenever I thought my mom and I were close before, my mom and I became even closer and she became one of my best friends. So and she started going to Pride and she has a standout Pride and she is always like my openly gay son. She's like both about me. I mean, you probably see her face like she posts me all the time. - Yes. - God love her. - Ball State, God in was just happy to be into school. Ended up graduating. It's a great time. And after that, I was kind of like, I didn't realize that I had such like a standing here. And I was like, I am like kind of a small town's celebrity just in the high school aspect because like, I just theater. - Yeah. - So that definitely put me out there. Because you know, doing art is very exposure to me. Summer was great. I did Chicago that summer as the summer musical. - I'm jealous. - Thank you. I try. And so ready to spend every day, all day, every day doing what I love. College can only get better from here. I was like, I'm gonna be around people that love what I do and we love doing it together. And I talked about this with Trin actually a few weeks ago and I was like, I have this star where everybody was telling me, when you go to college, like you don't really talk to your high school friends and like you mostly talk to the friends that you meet in college and then after that, you talk to the people that you meet in life. Well, then I guess I'll just drop on my high school friends 'cause I guess I just won't talk to them since I'm probably not gonna talk to them anyway. So I spent the summer with them and then when to college, I really didn't reach out much 'cause I just expected that I wouldn't talk to them and I would make my best friends college. College was fine at first. It was great. The first welcome week was stunning. I am gonna be so blunt. I haven't like horrible first year experience away from home and going to college. I'm also, yes, I have an older sister, but we are 13 years apart. So I basically was an only child. And living with someone in the same room was a big stretch. Yeah, and I was just like big change and I also have to find a lot about myself and all my friends were texting in our group chat from home and they were like, love college, love my roommate. I'm like, great, I have a horrible experience. And I was like, I can't go home, I can't go home 'cause I don't wanna be that kid that goes home ever for a weekend at college 'cause I wanted so badly to be like, I'm a free bird, like, you know whatever. And it wasn't until I came back for homecoming again 'cause when you went homecoming king, the next year you have to come back, king and queen. You have to come back and crown the new winners. So I was like, okay, you know, I'll do it. I came back and I was just like welcomed with so much love and I was like, oh my God, I don't know why I was so like ready to leave and like why I hated this place so much because this place showed me nothing but love and appreciation and especially because like, I still had my platform here, like having people come up to me, that know me either through my mom or through theater or just like life. I mean, like, it was weird because like, going to both state people like to know who I was and I was like, I wasn't trying to be like all in my head but I was like, you like, you know, whatever. And like, and I spent all my time with my home girlfriends and I was like, why did I ever wanna leave them? I was like, I was like thinking and I was like, oh my God, the reason why we're so close is because we had four years together building this relationship and ended up breaking and then we ended up rebuilding it and now we are stronger than ever. And that's why we're so close and I was like, I was expecting to find that in other people at Ball State but I completely forgot that it takes time to make a close friend. It's not gonna be instant. So you can have like an instant connection with someone and chemistry can be great, but it's the long term connections. - Building that trust. - Yeah, it takes time. - Absolutely. And I just threw my trust out like it was, like we weren't in a penny shortage. Yeah, so it was tough. Living in an area like this, like I said earlier and trying to find a romantic partner is extremely hard. - Oh, I'm sure. - Especially at my age too and finding a boyfriend was my main focus throughout all of high school and it leaked into college especially because everybody was like, oh, when you go to college, there's more fish in the sea, there's more fish in the sea but there wasn't 'cause it's still Indiana and the fish that we're in the sea were closeted men and I felt like just so used would cry myself to sleep because I'm just like, I feel so unlovable. Like why does anybody want to be with me? And like, it's because it's not because I'm not pretty. Like I was like, it's like I don't understand and I prayed to God like every night and I was just like, universe like send me someone like why does no one want to be with me? Is it just like, it's love not meant for me and it was like the one thing that I wanted. And yeah, and it's also hard because like, a comment that my mom had made earlier in high school when I wanted to dress more femininally is I would come to her crying about like these boys at like whatever and she was like, well, maybe if you didn't dress so femininally, then boys would like you more. And I was like, mom, why would you ever say that? And she like didn't know that I would hurt and we'd talk about it later and she said, I'm so sorry, but that's that with me. And I was like, there's this pandemic as a recently, especially with queer men where like mask for mask, masculine guys attract masculine guys. And I was just so confused like that because we grew up in a society where like opposites attract and like, feminine things attract masculine things. And I was just like, I don't understand like it. I couldn't comprehend it at all. And I was like, this is the queer community and not the straight community. So it's like, of course, it's not gonna make sense because this is a whole other beast to conquer and understand that nobody has done research on and that we've all experienced and know about just through life. I was like, okay, so it was the battle between, do I present the way that I wanna present and just wait or do I change myself and make myself look different to attract love? And I was like, I can't. I was like, yeah, I was like, I mean, the answer to that. Yeah, I was like, I know better than that. And so it was a hard battle. And I mean, I don't go through it as much today because especially this summer, single summer, I'm not focusing on ways because I just realized that men and shit, like they aren't anything until like, you become older and they also mature with you. Totally. So it's like, I just had to realize that I'm at a level where like, I know what I want, I know what I'm looking for and I need someone who's going to make me a better person and not drag me down. And unfortunately, the men that I am attracting at this moment in time and in this society that we live in and in this place that I live in, they aren't gonna be the ones for me. That's okay, but I was still like upset in college and I was like, what is wrong? I was like, I'm fine with my friends. All my friends are fine.
I don't care about boys as much as I used to. I wasn't so boy centered as I was in high school. I don't understand. Going to therapy and I have my college therapist and it literally clicked. I don't make any time for myself. - Mmm. All I did in high school was I would go to school, come home, shut my door, take off my clothes, eat in my bed and watch friends or sex in the city and just spend hours by myself. And those were my hours alone, my knee time. I would go out and go shopping by myself or go out and eat dinner by myself. Like I didn't care. - Yeah. - But I didn't do that at all this entire year of college. And it was hard too because like I have someone that I live with in the same room. So it's hard to make time for yourself. And I was like, that's why it's because I never looked inward and like made that time for myself, which is the biggest lesson that I had to learn. - That is a huge lesson. - Yeah. - Because out seeking anything you just know with yourself, taking it nurturing yourself, whatever, yeah, cereal and pudding. - Oh my gosh. - Yes. - And it's the fact that I took a semester and three, four, so the second one, because all I was doing was looking outward and looking at all these other like tiny fires that I had to put out or didn't have to, but that I wanted to put out because I thought that those were problems or lessons that I had to learn, but the lesson that I had to learn for myself was to focus on myself. - Totally. - The year ended, I was so ready to come home and be with my friends and the first hangout that we had, I literally balled, 'cause I was like, I'm just so happy to be with people that understand me and I can just say anything I wanna say and it doesn't matter. And the summer so far has been great. And I am excited to go into school next year because I think it's gonna be better, because I think it's gonna be, especially your next year, that as of right now I'm living in the present. - Also, you know yourself better. I do a lot of power. - Yes. - I know what you need and when you need it. - Absolutely. - And you run towards it. - Yeah. - Wow, mother just clocked in. - Hello, some more to like to add. - Yes. - Yeah. - And that is my story. - I know. - They found that. (laughing) - Woo! - Oh, that worked. - Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. (upbeat music) - Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. (upbeat music) Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. Spaghetti top. (upbeat music)
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The host, Taylor Capillary, is releasing a special three-episode mini season for Pride Month in June.
The idea came from a young queer theater community member who asked to be on the podcast, leading to a focus on sharing others' stories.
Episode 1 features Noah Bauer, a recent McCutchen graduate now in Ball State's musical theater program.
Episode 2 features Anthony Williams, a Harrison High School drama director and working actor.
Episode 3 will include both guests, discussing Pride Month's meaning and their experiences.
Noah shares his coming-out story, including early confusion about the word "gay," bullying, and a pivotal moment watching "Glee" during COVID that helped him accept his identity.
His mother initially accepted him but asked him not to be flamboyant, which later caused resentment.
Noah reflects on moving from sports to theater, finding a supportive community, and missing competition but preferring theater's environment.
Summary:
In this special Pride Month mini season of Spaghetti Talk, host Taylor Capillary introduces a three-episode series centered on two young queer men from the theater community. The initiative began when a young man approached Taylor at a local event, requesting to share his story on the podcast. Taylor, wanting to use her platform to celebrate Pride, agreed and invited both him and his best friend to participate.
Episode 1 features Noah Bauer, a recent high school graduate now studying musical theater at Ball State University. " He describes the emotional moment of coming out to his mother, who accepted him but asked him not to be flamboyant—a request that later caused resentment. Noah also discusses his transition from competitive swimming to theater, where he found a supportive community and an adrenaline rush similar to sports.
Episode 2 will spotlight Anthony Williams, a drama director and actor, and Episode 3 will bring both guests together to explore the meaning of Pride Month. Taylor emphasizes her role as a facilitator, providing a safe space for these young men to share their authentic stories.
FAQs
The host is releasing a three-episode mini season for Pride Month, featuring two young men from the queer and theater communities sharing their stories.
Episode one features Noah Bauer, a Ball State musical theater student; episode two features Anthony Williams, a drama director and actor; episode three includes both of them.
A young man from the queer community suggested being on the podcast at a theater event, and the host wanted to use their platform to celebrate Pride Month by letting others share their stories.
In second grade, a girl called him gay without him understanding the word, and later peers used it negatively, leading to depression and therapy by fourth and fifth grade.
During COVID, he watched 'Glee' and related to the character Kurt, who came out. After reflection, he accepted his identity, though he was initially upset that his bullies were right.
He told her in the car after grocery shopping, saying 'I think that I'm gay.' She responded with 'okay,' and he cried, feeling that his life had changed forever.
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