Presley Gerber Dead at 27, Plus Nikole Hannah-Jones Admits She Harmed Her Daughter's Education, with Stu Burguiere | Ep. 1402

Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, live on Sirius XM Channel 111 every weekday at noon east. Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show. Happy Monday. A lot of news to get to. There are big updates in the Lindsay Clancy case. I mean, serious updates in that case. Yes, Patrick Clancy was on 60 Minutes last night. We'll get to that. But this morning, Kevin Reddington, the defense lawyer, really upped the ante on his targeting of the lone holdout juror, Michael. And we will tell you exactly what he's now demanding. It is extraordinary. Just a little preview. He wants the guy's phone records during the deliberations. He wants the actual phone turned over. And he is really leaning in to harassing this juror. Who will protect Michael? Truly, he's got a lawyer. I'm not sure that guy is going to be able to protect him because he's trying to get the court system to bear down on this guy. It's obvious intimidation. So we will be getting to that in one minute. Also, Nicole Hannah-Jones, you know, Ida Bay Wells is her ex-handle. She's the author of the 1619 Project. What happened with this woman yesterday was unbelievable. My team must have sent back and forth about 100 texts on this. She, long story short, and we'll get to it in the long version when Stuber Gear joins us next hour. She decided, because she needed to prove some story, some point about racism, to send her daughter to one of, if not the worst public school in New York City, where there were open fights all the time, absolutely no teacher presence, a shitty principal, according to her, reading and math levels in the toilet. Her daughter basically couldn't read. Next to that level of despair, the tests weren't being looked at by the teachers. And she just continued forward because whites and racism. And finally, it took until her daughter said, what on God's earth did you do to me? For her to realize that all the dining out she'd been doing on the daughter's misery, patting herself on the back for being an anti-racist and never eschewing a school where black and brown bodies struggle, her daughter is below national reading levels and math levels and so on levels across the country. But Nicole Hannah-Jones feels really good about herself. And it took the daughter saying to the mom, you fucked up. You completely screwed up my childhood. Why did you do this to me? She didn't change the schools, but she did under-educate her daughter and take away actual meaningful opportunities that that kid could have had. She humiliated herself so that she, it's the epitome of wokeism, where it's virtue signaling so that they feel like a better person. You and I have talked about this countless times. The whole point of wokeism is to virtue signal so other people think you're better than you are and then they are. And that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the whole point of wokeism is to virtue signal so other people think you're better than you are and then they are. It's not like Presley Gerber is at the top of everybody's minds, but everybody knows who Cindy Crawford is. And they're getting to know her daughter, who was two years his junior, Kaya Gerber, who also revealed in a Vogue magazine interview in August that she is big into psychedelics and there's nothing wrong with psychedelics. They can really help you as a therapy. I don't mean like, yeah, let's everybody shroom out, but we've talked a lot on the show about how psychedelics in a controlled form under the care of a psychiatrist can be life-changing for a lot of people. And you remember, well, we've done long, full shows about this. But she's also struggled. Okay, so we're going to get to all of that, but I'm going to show you this very long soundbite. Listen to every word. This was Presley almost a year ago, November of 2025. And within 10 months, he would be dead. All righty, folks, let's just give you an update. I feel like honesty is the best policy. So long story short, where I'm at currently, I'm on one milligram of buprenorphine, which is what's in Suboxone. It has Naloxone in it, which is what Narcan is. But that does, I don't know, there's something weird about that where we can get into that another time. Long story short, I'm on one milligram of buprenorphine twice a day, morning and night, sometimes a little more if I need it. The benzos have been fluctuating up and down depending on what's been going on in my life. Unfortunately, I've had a lot of loss. And in many different forms recently. So that is not an excuse, but it's the reason or a part of why I am where I'm at now. So it's that, which is a partial agonist, opiate, buprenorphine, then the benzos, Xanax, a little bit at night or when the panic attacks are really, really bad. I try to take it. A little of that is possible. The Valium, I take a little bit in the morning or not. I don't know if it's a little or a lot. Who knows anymore? All these doctors say a lot of different things. So it's kind of scary. But hopefully between my research and their research and the world and God, we can figure this out. So, yeah, trying to stabilize them, just Valium. So it's not two different benzos. Then. And antidepressant wise, I don't think it's an SSRI. It's not, it's something else, but it's similar to an antidepressant. I take, well, I just jumped up from 15 to 22.5 milligrams of Mirtazapine, which is called Remeron as well. And then I take Prazacin, Prazacin is a blood pressure medication also used to treat night carers and PTSD and that kind of stuff. I get a lot of night carers. So I take one to four milligrams of that at night. It's been one, but that's not cutting it. So I think I'm going to start upping it to like two, three. The things that scare me are the things that you need to take. So once you start taking them, if you don't take them, something not good happens. And obviously there's a spectrum there on how intense the quote unquote withdrawal from certain medications is. But yeah. So it's those three meds really, I guess four if you're counting the Xanax, but three classes of medications, I don't know, four, blood pressure, opiate, benzo, antidepressant. Then I have like the comfort meds, which I try to save for when I'm doing cuts, meaning, okay, this week we're dropping a little bit on your benzos or we're dropping a little bit on the opiate, whatever that is. That's like Gabapentin, hydroxyzine, colonidine. I mean, stuff like that. It sucks because I don't have as much direction as I would like to have. I'd like doctors to be like, hey, dude, you take this three times a day. You take this at 10 a.m. You take this at noon. You take this at, you know, 9 p.m. But every psychiatrist I've had, I've had like 15. They're all just like, well, here's 20 medications. And take this if you feel like this. Take this if you feel like this. Take this as needed. And I'm like, no, like, don't. Give me that much leeway. I need some direction. So I'm just trying to work out and sauna and take baths and, I don't know, hopefully find a good community of people making me good influences on me as I've grown up in Hollywood. And, you know, there's a lot of people I'm around that I love to death. But right now I try not to be around. And I want to say my last drink, though, on a good note, was on my birthday. So I haven't had alcohol in a couple of months, which is dope. That is no longer serving me. And prior to that, I think it was like a year, a year and a half. I just didn't really wasn't talking about that as much. But anyways, yeah, like one. Or two nights, maybe, of drinking in the last few years. So that's where I'm at. Ketamine. Ketamine. I mean, I do the NAD and ketamine drips out in Vegas sometimes, sometimes here in California. Typically, I use them more for when I'm like detoxing, if I'm having to do like a hardcore detox, which I'm hoping not to ever do. Again, and do more of a tapering thing. But I'm just looking for a doctor that's going to actually help me taper and not just keep me on some stuff. So there's that. Yeah, I definitely probably use that more than I should. It ebbs and flows. Yeah, sometimes it's not in a clinical setting. But I feel I've gotten to a place with it where. Yeah, it's not serving me any longer. So anyways, that's the update on my life. I'm hoping this reaches people in many ways. A, so you feel like you're not alone, because that is how I feel most of the time. And I have a feeling if I say all of this, a lot of people will not. Well, at least know that there's someone else going through it. And the second thing is, is hopefully I find some people. Out here that are willing to help and or are people that know someone that can help. So that's my update. Thank you all for being patient with me with the mental Monday stuff. You know, life comes in different ways at different times. So I had to take a little break. But anyways, that's an update. Okay. Minnesota. It's 175 degrees. I said to 200. It's taking a minute, but that's where I'm at now. It's Monday. I don't know the date. It's Monday. Something that's almost December or maybe it is, but happy Thanksgiving or post Thanksgiving. Everyone, you know, the holidays can be weird as hell. Yes, they were for me too. So love y'all. Peace and love. And hopefully we can. I don't know. Head in a direction or get somewhere with all this. So yeah. Adios. Oh. Gone too soon. At 27. So how does this happen? How does somebody with all of life's advantages seemingly die of a drug overdose in a rehab center before his 30th birthday? Well, I think it's a good question. I think it's a good question. Presley Gerber last year. year after I saw that Instagram post and said, this is not going to end well. The number of medications he cited, I was just looking them up. Virtually every single one of those, a side effect is drowsiness. Now you tell me if you're taking five or six meds at once, all of which have a side effect of drowsiness, and you are already a depressed person, what that could do to you. Everything was a drug cocktail, and you heard this guy begging to get off of it. But hold on, before I get to that, before I get to the drug cocktail and what the system does to anybody who expresses any statement about depression, which is medicate them immediately. He was begging in that video to be titrated off of it, but couldn't seem to find a doctor to help him. That's what he was saying. I mean, explicitly. But prior to that, what was Presley Gerber's life like? Growing up the child of two people who seem in love, who by all accounts aren't drug addicts themselves. But we don't know that, to be honest. And Kaya Gerber also told Vogue in August that her mother has always been a very private person. She's got her, obviously, her public persona, but that she doesn't out the family problem. So, I mean, the truth is, we don't know. I have no reason to believe it's so. Well, he told us, he explained what it was like growing up and the thing that brought him the most happiness when he was a young boy, an adolescent. Listen here on Stop 4. I just think there's something to be said about when I started working, which was like around the age of 14. And I started traveling and I stopped doing like all this, you know, I was maybe in New York shooting something or I had to. Do a thing in Europe that like, you know, there's more like 15, 16. But what I'm trying to say is the less activity that was in my life, especially for me, the ocean, like the more medication I found having to be integrated into my life and the more I just, the quality of life rapidly decreased with a decrease in natural endorphins and dopamine and that kind of stuff. Like I had to start making money. I had to start getting out a job. I mean, I was working at a smoothie place by the time I was 14. And I'm not saying that, oh, I shouldn't, you know, they should have just, my parents should have just let me surf all day and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. What would the outcome have been? I don't know, but I can say for sure. And I've, I still firmly believe by, you know, this, because there's data, activity is important. And if you're someone who likes dopamine, adrenaline, and physical activity is a very important thing to integrate in your life. And I think that you will be a lot happier if you do it. It's also, I mean, it's something to be said about the more that we've evolved as a human race, the more things we've needed to survive. I mean, like you think about, and I'm not going to give dates because history is not my forte, but I'm talking back a while ago when we weren't living in structures like this and drinking things out of cans. We needed a whole lot. Yes. And I just think that there's something to be said there. Yeah. He talked about how, what he loved most prior to his modeling career was surfing and water polo and about how he used to spend an average of 10 hours on many days in the water, either playing water polo, which is a demanding sport. I actually just realized that water polo is played in the deep end of the pool. That's how clueless I am. Ben, about that sport. But yeah, I mean, think of the shape you have to be in in order to be an excellent water polo player. And apparently he was. And also an excellent surfer. I mean, that's every muscle in the body, especially when you're surfing out there in California, where the waves come, they come regularly. And he was loving it. I don't know what he's talking about. I had to get a job at age 14 selling smoothies. I mean, it's possible his parents were trying not to raise someone who was a freeloader. You know, who felt their wealth and thought everything would be handed to him. It seems odd to me that any parent would tell a 14 year old you must work or else I don't know what really happened there. But he himself pointed out the endorphin flow. He got the natural serotonin boost he got from surfing and being in the water, whether it was water polo or, or on the ocean. And that that all stopped when he got commercialized. There he is with the little sister, Kaya. And let's face it, both kids were commercialized. He said he was signed when he was 15. Kaya was signed when she was 13 to these major modeling agencies. And Cindy Crawford of all people should have known the dangers of that. She should have known the dangers. I mean, not for nothing, but with his good looks, that gorgeous face and the bone structure and all that, and you've got a teenage boy being sent over to New York, to Europe, Hollywood. And he remarked several times about how bizarre it was to grow up in Hollywood. And you better watch him. There are predators in that industry. Predators in modeling, in music, in Hollywood. We know this. I mean, we all know this. So something very damaging. happened to Presley Gerber along the way. And I don't know what it was. I only know what he told me in the videos that I've watched and that some of which you've seen. He missed his active childhood. It doesn't sound like he really wanted to be a model. And when you hear many interviews of him talking about his time as a model, it's very rare that he was talking about it in laudatory terms. Here's just one example. Here's Sot 5. I did my first job. I was signed to IMG at 15 years old. I think my sister was 13. We got scouted and signed like the same day. Getting thrown into the modeling industry, it's like you sink or swim. That's like bottom line. So you're thrown into it and you immediately have to know how everything works. I remember within the first week of signing, I'm like in New York, people are taking pictures of me, like shirt off. I'm like, this is, you know, like just my whole life changed within a month. And like, it was just, it was, it was just a very profound experience because I had to grow up quickly. All of a sudden I'm in social media school and I'm sitting in a class where I'm literally being told how to answer questions. When people tell you, when people ask you this, we want you to respond with this. When people ask you this, we want you to speak like this. And, you know, obviously I've clearly forgotten a lot of those skills, you know, over the years, but it was, yeah, like you said, it was, uh, it was interesting being thrown into that mix where you're around now these celebrities and we were definitely some of the younger ones at the, at the agency. Can you imagine, I mean, honestly, can you imagine putting your 13 year old and 15 year old in modeling? I was just, I just think it's a reckless decision. I think it's known to be a terrible industry. It's the same as putting them into singing. The odds are overwhelmingly against them growing up to be well people. And look, this is just my, and I have nothing but empathy today for Cindy Crawford and Randy Gerber, nothing but empathy for them. I'm sure they are in the depths of despair. They've issued a statement confirming, that he died and asking for privacy. They don't want to make any public statements or be asked for them. And I don't blame them. This is for the rest of us. This is, this is not about how they parented necessarily though. And in part it is, I don't think it was a good idea to put young children in modeling, but it's really about parents who in general are allowing their children to grow up or forcing them to too soon. 13 years old, 15 years old, going to Europe, and doing modeling contracts and doing social media school, where you learn what, how, how you have to present, which is not your authentic self, hint, hint, and being thrust into a vapid, toxic, empty industry, where the only thing that is prized is your outward appearance. No one gives two shits what your inner strength is, what your inner beauty is, what your inner wind wisdom is. They couldn't care less. I mean, back when I would occasionally, go and have a magazine shoot when I was at Fox and so on, the models were talking about how they would have three, like they, they cater these events. And the models would have three little tortellinis, like the little tiny ones that you might serve in a bowl of pasta. And they would, they would use a knife and a fork to cut them up and eat them as a meal. I mean, that's chain smoking. And he talked about how he began smoking at rehab. He said, because that's what one does. So he was already in and out of rehab. He said he was an addict by the time he was 18. Now that would have. taken a while. So let's assume 17 is when at the latest the drinking and the drugs began. So it took two years of him entering the modeling industry for him to become an addict and three for him to need inpatient rehab. I mean, this is not a win, not a win. And you listen to what he said in that message, which he later deleted the long one that we played at the top of the hour people magazine reported that he later deleted it. And what was he saying? I feel alone most of the time. I I'm hoping to find a good community of people that can be good influences on me as I've grown up in Hollywood. And you know, there's a lot of people I'm around that I love to death, but right now I try not to be around them. Who did he mean? Who is that? I don't even, he was a grown man. He talked about loving his family and being close with his family. He referred to them as his best friends at one point, but also said, I feel alone most of the time and was begging, begging for somebody to step in and help him taper off the drugs. I'm just looking for a doctor that's going to actually help me taper, not just keep me on some stuff. I mean, the number of times I've been on some drugs, I've been on some drugs. I've been on some drugs, I've been on some drugs. I've been on some drugs. I've been not considering himself an addict. Suboxone, that's a drug that helps opioid addicts wean off the opioid. So it's almost like a teeny tiny dose of opiate that will help you not go max on, on the opiate addiction. It's actually a miracle drug. They talk about it in drug sick or dope sick. But unfortunately, it's a miracle drug. It's a miracle drug. It's a miracle drug. It's a miracle drug. But unfortunately, it will show up on a blood test and some employers won't hire you if you're on that, which is like effed up for an addict. Naloxone was one that has, he said, fast acting emergency medication used to temporarily reverse the life-threatening effects of an opioid overdose. I think he means Narcan is where, I mean, that's another name for it, which he had on hand. Myrta, or Myra, Myr, sorry, Myrtazepine prescription antidepressant. Remeron prescription antidepressant. Prazozin prescription medication used to treat high blood pressure, but also addresses night terrors, which is what he said he was using it for. Ketamine, a versatile chemical compound primarily used in medicine and veterinary care as a disassociative anesthetic and painkiller. Ketamine can also be used in these, like a psychedelic would be used, although like Sean Ryan was saying, it's not the best. Like there are other psychedelics that they've shown more success for. And so it's a miracle drug. In treating depression, benzodiazepines, including Valium and Xanax that he was on, that he really didn't want to be on. I mean, it was, his whole life was spent drugged, drugged, drugged, and more drugged. He would eventually after, so that was the thing about talking about how his life changed dramatically. That was in 2023. When he talked about the rush that he got from the drug, he was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that was the July. It was July a year ago. Then he did the November post that we began the show with. Now, by the time we got to March of 2026, he was struggling again because he posted something online about Ibogaine. And this is the drug that Joe Rogan worked with Trump to make more accessible in particular to veterans because they've had a lot of people who have had a lot of success turning around depression with our military veterans on it. And what he posted online was, hold on a second. Yeah. Quiet moment before everything changed. I was absolutely terrified. And I knew I would be again, if I ever had to face something like this helps to not go into situations you do that get you there, but that's life sometimes not totally understanding either. He writes, my mantras were love yourself. And it's got to be the last time, for this reason, letting go of control didn't come easy, but I trusted there was something bigger than me guiding it. I knew why I was there. I faced what I had been running from and somewhere in all of it, I started finding my way back to myself. We shall see praying. It's the last time I have to come back next time. I'd like to choose and absolutely can't forget the incredible caring, kind, and on their shit team helps a lot. Ha ha. And I made some dope ass friends there. And then hashtag Ibogaine rewiring our brains. Love you. Love yourself. Hashtag mental health. So it appears that he went to a Mexican treatment clinic and received a single high dose administration of the naturally occurring psychoactive substance Ibogaine. This is derived from an African shrub and is reported that it helps withdrawal symptoms. The high dose is designed to induce a profound reset. Again, it's used for depression. He posted a video online of him getting treatment, at this facility. Here's what that looked like. There's no sound, but it's a small woman standing in front of him. First, they seem to be praying or meditating. And then she's lighting a bunch of very smoky incense, um, right around his face, ears, head, and so on. And he's kind of standing there receiving her blessings, karma. I don't know. After this happened, every member of his family, Wade in online, his dad, Randy Gerber. I'm so proud of you and your courage facing what's hard takes real strength and watching you find your way back to yourself is everything. I love you so much. Thank you, pops. And learned it from you, Kaya. That's my brother. And I am so down damn proud. Presley, love you so much. Cindy Crawford, you are a warrior walked through the fire to find yourself so proud. Presley, love you, mama. Um, obviously it didn't work. Kaya Gerber is mentioned at the top was apparently also using some sort of, um, therapeutic modalities is what Vogue reported. Kaya, they write comma, who has pursued multiple therapeutic modalities and is a champion of psychedelic therapy in particular is deep, is deeply proud of her brother. My parents for most of our lives were very, very private and did not share anything. And now we have this absolute teacher, my brother who says, I'm going to be very human for everyone. There's only so much you can hide from the world, she says, and trying to put a lid on something just makes the person feel like you're ashamed of them. So she seems to be revealing something about Presley's feelings about the parents preference for privacy. She also said that quote, her older brother, Presley Gerber's decade long struggle with drug addiction appears to have provided a sort of foil as Kaya was discovering who she was. When something like that happens in a family, she said, it kind of levels everyone. I think that's also why I started to started to self-identify as the easy one and never wanted to ask for help because it felt like too much to have two children who were needing. And yet what they seem to have is a girl who's two years younger than Presley, now 25, who's been modeling for 12 years, who herself was thrust into the same environments at an even more tender age than her older brother and already has had to result to multiple therapies, not to mention many very public, if you ask me, precocious relationships with men who are older and much more sophisticated than Kaya was at the time she was dating them in a way that I think would make most mothers raise an eyebrow. It all comes back to the same thing. Your child doesn't need to become model of the year. She doesn't need to become a singer like Northwest on stage at age 13 with multiple piercings and hoping for another one in between the eyes. Your child doesn't actually need to pay the bills when they're 15 years old and they don't have to actually choose a profession that they can choose once they become an adult at 18 or God forbid, 21, when heaven forbid, they may have lost a few years of income or building a name for themselves. What they actually do is they choose a profession that they can choose once they become an adult at 18 or God forbid, they may have lost a few years of income or building a name for themselves. What they actually do need is time with you. That's it. More than anything else, they need time with a loving parent. And you can be as loving as you want, but if you are flying all over the world, working on your own career, your next billion dollar deal, it's really tough to put in the time that is needed to raise a well child. It just is. And too many parents forget this, you know, and then on top of it, you create busyness in your adolescence schedule like that, like that level. Dr. Leonard Sachs has come on here. So have other parenting experts talking about it's no excuse to say, oh, he's got, you know, whatever practice. That's why we can't have dinners anymore during the weeknights. Bullshit. Then you eat late. You eat late. You eat it. eight o'clock at night, that's what you do. And you make sure that you sit around the family dinner table, if at all possible. You know, there are some families that literally cannot do it because they're working two jobs and the parents are not home. Even those families have to try to find a way, have the meal in between the jobs, do something because you're setting your kids up for failure. They need time with a loving parent, even if you are sitting there on the couch next to each other. You're both reading a book. You're both watching a television program. You're watching a movie. It doesn't always have to be interactive, but they do need time with you. And, you know, the push, and I've seen it too, like the push to make sure your kid is the most popular, you know, doing the most provocative things is not a wise one. Let them be young and relatively sheltered as long as humanly possible. Before you know it, they will be off on their own. They actually will be 18. They'll either go to college or they're untimely. They'll go into the work world or they'll just go. Gap year, what have you, and they won't be with you anymore. And then your chance to make that imprint, and more than that, it's not about you imprinting yourself or your values on your child, though it's in part about that, but just the wellness that comes from immersing yourself as much as you possibly can in a loving, supportive environment with people you trust and who trust and love you will be gone. You can't get it back once it's gone. Remember when Leonard Sachs came on and he took calls? This is early on in our tenure on the show. He took calls and there was a very sad parent who called in about her daughter who was saying that she was trans. And the daughter, I think, was 19 or 21, right around there. And he said, I'm sorry to tell you that it's too late. I can't help you. It's too late. It was crushing. We were all very sad about the exchange. He wasn't trying to be mean. He was trying to be honest. There's no do-overs. Now's the time. And if you haven't been doing it, it's not too late for you either. If your kid's still in your home, do it. The modeling career can wait. The music career, all of it can wait. And you know what? Your family dinner can wait if your kid has obligations that keep him or her out of the house during the traditional dinner hour. Hell, the Europeans eat at nine o'clock every night. We can try that. We can try that. We can try that system for a time. But do what you have to to get time in with your child. You do not want to get a call like the one the Gerber family got yesterday. My prayers are with them. I'm very sorry for their loss. And speaking of loss, Patrick Clancy went on 60 Minutes last night with his new wife and had quite a few big reveals about his experience. First of all, we knew that his baby Callan, his eight-month-old, who Lindsay did kill, there was Callan, there was Dawson, who's three, and there was his oldest child, who was five, his daughter. And Callan lived for four days after she strangled him. And he spoke to what happened during that. And the moment Callan actually died, he was about seven. So I didn't have all the details of Callan's condition. I just knew that they got a heartbeat back. So I remember that night, I really thought there was a chance that Callan would live. And I remember just thinking, just give me one. Just give me one kid. And I would raise him as best I could. And I would give him the best life I possibly could. And I'd tell him about his brother and sister. And I was holding out hope for that. And then when I got to the hospital, I saw the doctor, I saw the look on her face, and I knew that it wasn't going to be a good prognosis. Callan's heart kept beating for four days. I'm so grateful for those four days that I had with him. And I'm so grateful he hung on. Did you talk to him in those four days? Yeah. Can you tell me anything you said? I said, I'm so sorry. And I got to hold him. I got to lay down next to him. And he died in my arms. It's so awful. I can't help feeling that it's, I shouldn't be hearing it. I can't help feeling that it's It is definitely not my business, the last words between a man and his son. I'm not exactly sure what the purpose of going on 60 Minutes was, but it was absolutely heart-wrenching. The people who think Patrick Clancy did it, you know, it's like, again, you guys know how I feel about conspiracy theories. I just don't spend time on them. I wish somebody had told him he didn't need to either. He didn't need to go out there and say he didn't kill his children or show people that he's normal and that he, you know, it's like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what this is about. But obviously he had something he wanted to say. And, you know, it's, that's, that's for him to decide. He was asked about whether he, whether Lindsay has asked for his forgiveness. This was very telling. Watch SOT 8. I saw headlines that said, you know, killer mom and baby murderer, monster, and none of them were accurate. I believe that it was her mental illness that caused that. So I shared those words and I think when it comes to forgiveness, I also felt that if I didn't get there, I would be eaten up inside forever. Did you ask Lindsay why she did it? Um, I asked her if she remembered it. And what did she say? She said it was like a dream. And, uh, she remembered it much in the way you would remember a dream after waking up. Do you feel like you failed in some way in this period? Or do you feel like you did the best you could? I think I did the best I could with what I had at the time. And I live with the outcome. I live with it every day. Has she ever asked for your forgiveness? Um, no. But I gave it to her. Hmm. So she's never asked him for forgiveness. How about that? That is stunning to me. I mean, aren't we told that she's like doing better now because she's on the meds? The voices are gone. Why would she not ask for forgiveness? To me, that's evidence of cold-hearted indifference, which is the case that we were making, those of us who supported the murder charges. Um, that's stunning to me. He's correct, though, that, you know, forgiveness is a poison you give to yourself. Sorry. Resentment is a poison you give to yourself. And not forgiving hurts you more than it hurts the person who hurt you. So good for him for finding the strength to do that. He did talk about the panic attack he had before they played that terrible 911 call in court. This is moments before he was going to go on the stand and they were going to go on the stand. And he was going to play it and he knew it would be horrific. Watch testifying is very difficult. On the second day, a lot of that was focused on the night of January 24th. We did take a break right before they played the 911 call, which I knew was going to be just horrific. And I went to a back room and I started having this massive traumatic panic attack. My heart was pounding and they put me in an ambulance. They offered me some medication, but I said, I don't want it because I want to go back and I want to finish this so I can be done with this. I went back and I finished the testimony. I'm sure that took Herculean strength, honestly. But they had to play it. They had to. They had to show the jury how horrific the scene was. It was an element of the first degree murder charge. Like they had to do it. I would have done it as a prosecutor, too. The difficulty that that put on him is a possible reason why Tim Cruz, the D.A., could yet come out and say, I'm dropping this down to a charge that we can both agree on. You know, a voluntary manslaughter, a second degree murder would allow her to go in front of a judge instead of a jury. But that to spare the family the pain of testifying is often, you know, you see it in child abuse cases all the time, a reason why D.A.'s will not be able to do it. And I think that's a really good example of that. I think that's a really good example of that. before that spouse can spend any alone time with them. any, any. That's what this case shows us. He was asked about that. I'm going to play you that soundbite after the break. And also we met the wife and found out something about their family. When we come back, Stu Bergeer is here. We'll finish up that discussion and talk about the new harassment by Kevin Reddington of the holdout juror, which is just stunning. The ferocity with which he is going after this holdout juror, who again, whose thing was he didn't vote along with the others. This is, he's starting a dangerous new precedent. We'll talk about that and we'll do the Nicole Hannah Jones update. Stay tuned. Lots more to get to. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet and that now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack and that senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans. Credit cards can keep your payments secure and provide rewards that families use to help make everyday purchases more affordable. The Electronic Payments Coalition says the Durbin-Marshall mandates would let corporate megastores cut corners on credit card processing, routing transactions over cheaper, untested networks with weaker security and fewer protections. Find out more at guardyourcard.com and consider telling Congress to guard your card. Back now with Stu Bergeer. He is the host of Predictable with Stu, which you can find at predictableshow.com, as well as the co-host of Stu and Dave Do America on Blaze TV. Stu, good to see you. Great to see you as well, Megan. Thanks so much for having me. The pleasure is all mine. So we left off in the middle of looking at the 60 Minutes interview with Patrick Clancy, and I didn't get to this soundbite of Patrick and his new wife, Dr. Rachel Dannis, with some news. Sot 10 here. And you guys are starting a family. Yeah. What are you going to tell your child about their brothers and sister? I think every parent can agree you have different relationships with your kids, but they're all your kids. And I can't wait to tell them about their brothers and sister. Oh, man. That's dark, too. I mean, I know it's supposed to. It's supposed to not be dark, but that's dark. So she's expecting a baby right now, which is one of the reveals there. I don't know, Stu. I just feel like, why? Why are they on camera telling this story? I just feel like this is the worst tragedy that could possibly happen to a parent. Who would blame them for staying private, eschewing the national spotlight, going about their business, you know, conspiracy theorists can think whatever the hell they want about them. I mean, they think that I'm Nicole Brown Simpson reincarnated. There's no talking people out of these beliefs. Or maybe not reincarnated, that I'm the original her and she was never killed. I don't know what happened to the baby Megyn Kelly, who was born in 1970. Whatever. The point is, you just. What's the point? I just can't imagine going on 60 Minutes and talking about this with a bunch of strangers or putting the new wife. The new wife up for examination by a bunch of strangers, which makes her fair game, frankly. You know what? What do you make of it? Well, first of all, I know what I'm doing for the rest of the day. I'm going to be Googling Megyn Kelly and Nicole Brown Simpson. I'm going to. Didn't predict that one, did you? No, I didn't. I didn't. You know, I watched the interview. I found him largely sympathetic. And I guess maybe that's the reason why you do it. But I'm with you, Megyn. I don't understand it. I think, you know, I come from a. I come from a producer background. I started on the Glenn Beck program as a producer for many, many years. And there was a lot of times I had conversations with Glenn before we would go on some particular topic and he'd have some take on some controversial thing. And oftentimes it would go to this place where he'd say, well, we have to talk about this. And I would say, you're going to be surprised to hear this. No, you don't. You actually don't have to talk about it. You don't have to insert yourself into every little battle online. You don't have to have a comment about every little story. You can actually talk about it. You can actually live your life in a different way where every little bit of it is not exposed. Now, look, this is a massive story. Everybody's talking about it. And the part where I did see a little bit of the understanding of him going on and doing a show like this was when they were talking about all the conspiracy theories and craziness that's been spread about this guy in particular. See, that's the part I find the least necessary. Yeah, no, look, I. How many people did he disabuse of their conspiratorial beliefs about him? None. Absolutely not. Not one. No, it never works, right? Like, I mean, we used to talk about this all the time, you know, when Barack Obama was talking about the birther conspiracy theories. Like, he would come out and say these things all the time. There would never be a birther who would be like, you know what? Actually, he was born in Hawaii. And there's never going to be a person who comes out. I was wrong. You know what? Megyn Kelly isn't Nicole Brown Simpson. Those people don't get convinced out of whatever conspiracy theories they have. They never use the phrase, I was wrong. No. Never. It doesn't matter how much proof is right in front of them. It's just not the way conspiracies work. It's all about like. And it's through no fault of their own. There's like, it's just kind of. And let's face it, a lot of the conspiracies have come true in the COVID year, so I'm not disparaging them. I'm talking about like the deeply conspiratorial people who just genuinely. Like that, you know, immediately they're going to say Patrick Clancy did it. There's something about the mind that says like, I question everything and I know better. I'm being lied to. And so when like the truth comes and like it's so obvious to the rest of the world, you're like, you don't get it. I'm one of the few who gets it. That's how their minds. A 60 minutes interview is never going to do it. It's not going to do it. I can understand the motive. I can understand why he thought, you know, you think you're going to one of these theories. It's a big audience. Maybe you can move some people, but it's never, it never, it never ever works. You know, I did an interview years ago with Penn Jillette, a famous magician and. Yeah. He's a genius for many, many things. Very smart guy. And I was talking to him and I said, you know, you're kind of a contrarian on everything. Like why, why are you like that? He goes, hold on, let me stop you for a second. It's not a contrarian. It's a skeptic. And I think that's, I thought that was such an important way to think about it. Contrarians constantly take the opposite side of everything. When you're talking to someone who's really involved into deep conspiracy theory, one of the most common phrase they say is something to the effect of, well, that just proves, and then they go back into their conspiracy theory. Right? Like, it doesn't matter what the evidence is. So if you're one of these people, especially a guy like this who, yes, he's known because he was, you know, he's been around the trial and, and, and, and people, you know, who are obsessed with the story do know what he looks like and everything else. But one of the things he talked about was wanting to be anonymous, right? Moving to New York City where you can blend in and everybody's, everybody, every other person is on the, on the sidewalk, you know, sobbing brutally about God knows what. It's hard to stand out when you're going through a tough time in New York City. People don't know who you are. You can be swallowed up by that city to, to, to make that decision, to try to be swallowed up by the city and, and disappear after the worst thing that's ever going to happen to you. And then come out and do 60 minutes. I don't think those things work very well together. So I generally watched the interview and, and felt a little sympathy for him. And, and it's, it's gotta be the most impossible thing in the world to deal with. But at the same time, you know, just going away and, and living your life and maybe not describing your future family, but just going away and, and living your life and, and living your life to millions of people, it might be the better way to go. I know. And you're gonna, you're gonna talk all about the first three kids to the kids you're gonna have with this woman who also wanted her moment in the spotlight. That was weird too. Like, why is she there? Why, why now we're supposed to be celebrating the new, who, I gotta be honest, she struck me as kind of odd. She was a bit of an odd duck and like her candle lines. It was like, I just don't think he helped himself with like normies and I don't think he helped himself with people who think he did it. I think he should just look, I, I, I realize he's a victim too. Definitely he's a victim, but there are people like me who have, I don't have scorn for him, but I do have real questions about how the hell he left his wife alone with his children after she said she was having thoughts of harming them. So it's like, I don't blame him exactly, but I, I don't totally exonerate him either. I, I do feel like you needed to be more careful. You needed to believe your wife when she was telling you that you needed to be your children's protector. He knows all of that. He knows I doesn't need Megan Kelly to tell him, but that it's the reason it's the thing that kind of stops me from being anything other than just fully empathetic toward him. I'm, I'm, I, I confess I'm, I have some feelings of like, ah, where were you? Yeah, totally. And I, you know, I think that the, the vibe on him after the trial was like, oh gosh, he's so stoic and he didn't even show any emotion. And, and like, I felt like maybe he, I could see that, right? It's really, it's tough to, how do I put this? I don't know. How do you deal with a situation like this? I don't, I don't think they think I'd be heavily medicated. Yeah. Yeah. And, and probably dealing with it. You know what, how I would deal with a situation like this really poorly. Like God only knows what I would do. I don't know. I mean, I hate to say things like this, but like, I don't even know, like myself, if I had to deal with a situation like this, I don't even know if I'd make it to the 60 minutes interview. I, I, I would be catastrophically destroyed. And I'm sure he is. I certainly wouldn't be thinking about like my image in the public. eye and how to rehabilitate it. i would never want to have another conversation with anyone who knew who i was again in my life and then that's probably the best side of how i would react to a situation like that you know but i think like one of the things it's been interesting and i i'd love to you know your journey through this i'm sure has been really fascinating as well but like i i would talk to a lot of people about this particular case who had more sympathy and understanding for lindsay clancy than i would have necessarily uh thought and and it's because you know i because i think you know particularly women connect to the idea of postpartum depression and the idea of this these mental health struggles that were real she did seem to really try to get help and and and all of this and i get that of course there's the you know they all didn't kill their children so there's a massive difference between these two stories um but at the end of the day if you have if your wife comes to you and is is admittedly that and is seeking help for that type of thing that's i i can't even imagine my wife saying something like that to me just saying it once let alone checking herself into treatment for it if that happens there's absolutely not a second that goes by that she's with those kids you you can't at least for years and years and years and years to the point that maybe to the the point that where they could defend themselves right maybe they're adults before that even happens yes you can't take a chance like that right megan now you're speaking sense yes you are speaking sense this is how i think most people would see it and he was asked in this it wasn't in last night's interview it was in a 2024 interview he gave to the new yorker and he talked about how this is you know one of her best days he talked about on the stand a bit too this is one of her best days and that's why he felt comfortable leaving her alone with them and um you know he he asked her like did you plan did you send me out of the house on purpose and she said no it wasn't that i just snapped you know i snapped and there's a whole show about women and snapping usually they kill their husbands but still she had warned him you know on the long list of people who failed lindsay clancy patrick clancy appears there's just that he's on there he she said to him i'm thinking about hurting the kids and he is the other human being on the face of this earth who shared totally co-equal responsibility for making sure that they were protected as every parent out there knows and uh you know i don't know i don't know when the danger is the other parent it's it is your obligation to step in and protect them and he just didn't so i don't i just i guess i'm i don't know sorry maybe i sound heartless i just i'm i'm kind of not interested in listening to patrick clancy and the new wife go on about their wonderful next chapter like okay whatever okay but i am interested in what kevin reddington is doing on behalf of lindsay clancy the harassment of the holdout juror michael continues and not only does it continue it's even worse because it's not only does it continue it's even worse because it's amping up so he filed a document this morning um and a reporter for la magazine laura lauren conlon got it and it seeks the confidential jurors sorry the holdout jurors confidential questionnaire this is with the court they're saying please remove the court for orders regarding this jury we want the clerk to preserve the original confidential juror questionnaires we want the jurors this particular jurors summons badge and service records we want every jury note and the court's written responses we want courthouse video of the jury room corridor for the following dates august 27th through september 4th the this is the deliberation period the impounded juror list and all juror information that the commonwealth obtained before or during trial we want the clerk to produce to the court and counsel this jurors confidential juror questionnaire and any supplement also the that the commissioner of probation produced to the court under seal juror doe they're calling him john doe juror doe's record from the statewide domestic violence registry this goes back to that alleged domestic violence incident between this holdout juror and his wife six years ago that the commonwealth state under seal within seven days what juror information it obtained under its motion for access to prospective juror information before this trial began so they obviously before that while they were picking the jury or thereabouts the the state sought some information on some of the jurors i don't know what was in there but the defense is asking to find out that seems fine what background checks it ran and produced the results whether the plymouth county district attorney's office has or since january 1st 2021 has had any matter in which juror doe is a defendant complainant or subject so any of his dealings with the county district attorney's office and that summons his issue returnable to the court for review in chambers to the carrier serving juror doe's mobile telephone for call and text detail records sent during the dates of the deliberation between the hours of 8 30 a.m and 4 30 p.m on deliberation day and directing juror doe to deliver the mobile telephone to the county district attorney's office and that summons his issue returnable to the court for review in chambers to the carrier serving juror doe's mobile telephone for call and text detail records sent during the dates of the deliberation between the hours of 8 30 a.m and 4 30 p.m on deliberation day and directing juror doe to deliver the mobile telephone carried into the jury room during that period to a neutral examiner designated by the court and returned within 48 hours also they want the court to examine juror doe on the record orally with counsel present on three subjects the truthfulness of his questionnaire and voir dire answers the sworn assurance of september 3rd in which he said i can be fair and follow the law and the use of a mobile telephone or receipt of outside information during jury deliberations i'm just going to go ahead and say it this is the hen jurors selling this guy up the river and not just the hens that male juror because they mention him in particular as having said something about this guy allegedly using his phone at some point during the deliberations or during while he was in the jury deliberation room and they're trying to gin up trouble for him suggesting that he was coordinating with somebody outside of the jury room etc well who else will use their phone what are we going to do this for everybody or just the one holdout juror he's the only one getting a legal colonoscopy stew and it's meant to harass him and to make sure the next jury should there be one understands you vote not guilty by reason of mental defect or you'll get the same as the holdout juror yeah that's exactly what they're trying to do and you know i megan i come from an old maybe an old school line of thought that if you are a lawyer and you have a client who's admitted to murdering their three children you pray for a mistrial like that's the thing you're hoping to get to that like the fact that there was only one guy here who is actually holding the line on you can't kill your three kids and get a and and and and get off for it is like a massive change i think in our entire civilization i mean i look i get that uh there are there are complications here and like i i you know like you can make an argument i think that like maybe uh you know there's there's some i lean on your legal uh analysis here megan far more than i am i'm no expert on this stuff but just talking from a regular person perspective like if someone really did go through this they really did look for help they they may have had some terrible reaction to some medication all these arguments that have been brought up that's okay put that to the side that is different than whether we should separate this person from our society like i have relatives with young children the the person that has is capable of strangling their three kids with exercise bands can't be in the same free society as them that's just not a thing that can happen it's a no it's a no it's a no now is should she be in prison for the rest of her life should she have the death penalty thrown at her should she be a person who is in a high security mental institution for the rest of her life there are all sorts of different ways that could go i suppose and those details do matter certainly for her and certainly for our legal system we should follow the law as it as has been designed but like what are we talking about here we're not talking about the law we're talking about the law we're talking about harassing the one guy who said absolutely not you can't kill your three kids that's the guy who gets the harassment what we're upside down as a society if this guy who at the very least is making a very understandable argument that this is an unacceptable activity to engage in that's the guy who's getting all the crap for this not not the parents not not the one woman who did it not the dad who left in a questionable circumstance but the guy who said no i'm holding the line of murder of children that's the one we're going to pick apart it's completely upside down they will rue the day they allowed this kind of harassment of a holdout juror because nine times out of ten as you point out the holdout juror is the one saying not guilty and it's the rest of the jury that wants to send somebody to prison potentially for the rest of their lives and it often involves a black defendant whose life hangs in the balance and one one juror will say no i'm not doing that and if we're going to give the legal colonoscopy to every holdout juror well he was seen with his cell phone your honor i saw him in the deliberation room with his cell phone maybe he was checking the weather maybe he was making sure his new baby which he has hadn't been born or was well because she hadn't been that morning i don't know but the the nerve to jump right to oh the black man did something wrong honestly like they are setting a dangerous precedent yeah no you're totally true i mean and the left look they have i i don't even understand what they're doing i mean we saw this in the me too era as well where you know all we saw case after case after case after case where there would be a white college girl who would accuse a random black student of uh you know some sort of activity that was not appreciated or not approved of when it came to their relationship. And we'd see the colleges be like, OK, yeah, they're guilty. We're not even going to give them a chance to defend themselves. Like, how can that possibly be the right thing? That happened over and over and over and over again. Something, by the way, we should appreciate the Trump administration the first time for helping to correct at least a little bit. But still, I mean, this is the type of situation where it's like it's whatever's in front of them, right? Like this case right now is the black guy supposed to be the bad guy. And, you know, next time it might be the opposite. But like, this is why you don't you know, you shouldn't be judging people based on this on their skin color in the first place. I mean, that revealing clip of Gayle King, who's like, oh, my gosh, I have to sit with this for a moment. Like, how what a revealing thing about her, the way she thinks about people, right? Like the fact that she couldn't even consider that this person would do. This because, number one, it was a bad thing to her, convicting a woman of killing her three children. And then number two, that it was a black person who would do it was just a riveting, just, you know, wormhole into her brain to see how she actually thinks about these things that someone with her skin color couldn't possibly have done something wrong. I mean, that's awful. You're supposed to be judging people. The word you're looking for is racist. Yes, thank you. She's a racist. Much more. I mean, that's what that is. Yeah, I can't conceive of the person doing something I find abhorrent, having black skin. In my mind, of course, it was a white. That's what she's saying. It's it's so clearly racist when you say it explicitly just because she had, you know, the pregnant pause of silence around. Oh, I need to sit with that for a minute. Doesn't excuse it. It's blatantly racist. She gets away with it. It's because you're allowed to be anti white. That that doesn't cost you anything in today's day and age. But it she should feel humiliated. She should actually apologize because it's offensive what she did. All right. So that's the latest in the Clancy case. We'll be back to it as this judge rules on this motion and lets us know just how how how aggressive is the colonoscopy going to be? Is this like on a patient who already had stage four colon cancer? We're going to go that level. Or is it just like every five year screening? I don't know. Sorry, but we're going to find out. And I think we're probably not going to be. You might already own a firearm, but what if you could start with less lethal methods or just have them as part of your arsenal to avoid the financial and mental repercussions of actually pulling the trigger of a gun? This is where Burna comes in. I love Burna. It's B-Y-R-N-A-F-Y-I. Burna's less lethal launchers are equipped with tear gas and kinetic ammunition and designed to incapacitate an attacker for up to 40 minutes. And with Burna, you don't actually have to hit the perpetrator if you get like the wall right next to him or the door behind him, it still works. And they are very excited at Burna to be introducing the new compact launcher. Sleek, slim, and hits like a sledgehammer. The same size as a smartphone, which allows women in particular to conceal carry everywhere comfortably and with confidence. This thing fires at 400 feet per second. That's a lot of power to stop aggressors in their tracks. Their pistols are American made and hand assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana, with over 80% of the components. Burna's legal in all 50 states, no background checks required, and it can be shipped directly to your door. Burna is also trusted by hundreds of police departments, too. It's part of your self-defense plan. Try before you buy by visiting Burna.com to find a Burna dealer partner near you. That's B-Y-R-N-A dot com. We need to talk about Cozy Earth's bamboo stretch knit pajamas. These things are so cool. These things are silky smooth and buttery soft at the same time. You can feel it the second you put them on. They are naturally temperature regulating and breathable, too, so they keep you completely cool without ever waking up hot or clammy, but you're also perfectly comfy. They are crafted from viscose from bamboo with just the right amount of easy stretch. The fit is relaxed, so you look completely put together even while sipping morning coffee or answering the front door. Plus, there is no real risk in trying them out. They offer an easy return and exchange window if the fit is not right, and everything is backed by a warranty, too. Head to CozyEarth.com. Use my promo code MEGAN for up to 20% off home and sleepwear. That's code MEGAN for up to 20% off home and sleepwear. And if you see a post-purchase survey, be sure to mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with the Megan Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news, only on the Megan Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app. The thing with Nicole Hannah-Jones is it's got everything still. It's got everything. So she comes out with a piece like the mea culpa, right? It's the new New York Times piece in which she takes responsibility. It's titled, In Fighting for Every Black Child, Did I Betray My Own? Subtitle, A Decade Ago, I Made a Decision About My Daughter's Education That I Hoped Would Challenge New York City's Separate and Unequal Education. level in any of her academic subjects. subjects, that she was not a proficient reader. We were perplexed because she was always a good student and her past reading assessments were always at or above grade level. What followed was a series of emails and phone calls and meetings trying to get basic items like copies of her graded work, her reading assessment, her test results. We received nothing. Then one day in December, she came home and excitedly informed me she had suddenly jumped three grade levels in reading in one month. What became clear to me was that Naya's teacher had most likely never performed the school's mandatory reading assessments for Naya at all, but instead had assumed the flagging competency of these mostly low-income black children. So when she got the word that she was not performing on grade level in any of her subjects, the woman had no idea where her child was. She was just assuming that she was an underperforming black. So she had a racist teacher who looked at her black child in this shitty school and said, you're dumb just like the others. And still she did not pull her. Apparently, Jones, also didn't look at her child's work because she reports, I started checking Naya's work and discovered most of her answers were wrong. Naya believed herself to be good at math. It was her favorite subject, but now I understood basically she didn't know shit is what she's saying. She could not, she only thought she was correcting all of her problems because her teacher was not checking her work. Similarly, her writing assignments were rife with uncorrected punctuation, capitalization, and grammatical errors. They sobbed about their daughter at this point still sobbed, but they still worried about the others. But that night after I tucked her into bed, I sat across from Faraji in our living room and broke down in sobs. Should we consider leaving the school? Yes, you fucker, leave the school. Your kid cannot do math and the teacher's not even looking at her tests and they're fighting and there's no food at lunch. Fucking get her out of there, you idiot. This is so infuriating. Okay, we fell. Utterly stuck. Our child was suffering, but they all were. They were languishing in classrooms with educators who did not take their academic potential seriously and largely refused to teach. Whatever should I do? What would happen to these children if we abandoned them as everyone else with power had? Here we were, upper middle class, educated, highly involved family with a house brimming with books. Naya's principal and her teachers knew that I worked for the New York Times reporting on school inequality and that we were not going to be able to do anything. Faraji served on the PTA and the school leadership team. And yet with all the power and resources at our disposal, we left her elementary school at the end of fifth grade, feeling wholly defeated by a system of inequality, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Long story short, we set out to find a different middle school. They chose the same thing. The Urban Assembly Unison School, which 22% of the students scored at or above the proficient level for math, 27 for reading. Once again, fights and in the hallway, less experienced teachers can't manage their classrooms. Nadia Naya had similar complaints. The teacher didn't assign any homework. She wasn't happy. She told her mom, this makes no sense. Putting me in this school did not change a thing. I was not trying to be in this kind of environment. She said, you can pick your own high school. Guess what? She chose one that was heavily white and that screened their students with tests. The very type of public schools, writes Jones, I agree with you. I'm not trying to be in this kind of environment. I'm trying to be in this kind of environment. I'm trying to be in this kind of Allegedly, they made comments that demeaned her child or other black kids. Bullshit. I call bullshit. And now Jones feels overcome with regret. Naya deserved better. They all did. I had not chosen her. The daughter's mad. The daughter feels she still doesn't get how grandly she fucked up. And this was all, Stu, all to make Nicole Hannah Jones feel like she was a better person than the teachers or than the parents who chose to put their kids in schools that actually teach. Well, all I can say about all of that is how brave of her to write about it. Wow. What a miracle that she had the bravery. Because that's what this is. This is how it's being treated, is that this is a great, wonderful story of her bravery for admitting how terrible she was as a parent trying to put her own sort of ideology and honestly, like, credibility at, you know, various cocktail parties ahead of her children's, her own child's welfare, right? Like, that's really what happened here. And like, yeah, look, I'm glad she admitted it. That's a good thing. I'm glad we're talking about that. And people can see how bad the situation is. And, you know, at some level, I guess you at least believed it for a time. I mean, at least she was authentic at some level and said, OK, I'm going to send my kids to these schools that I'm defending. Unlike most of these people that we hear from, politicians constantly who will come out and be against school choice publicly while sending their own kids to private school over and over and over again. So I guess there's I mean, you know, if you're going to be a failure, maybe this is an F plus story rather than an F. It's not an A. It's not an A plus like she's being treated in the media today. I mean, she's being she'd be it's like she would have an Oscar for writing, writing this thing. And it's terrible. And also an Oscar for the first writing. Yes. I mean, that's that's what's so galling. The first the first piece that she did all these years ago, you know, taking this position in 2016. That one was titled Choosing a School for My Daughter in a Segregated City. And she got all these plaudits for writing it and doing it. That's why she had no choice but to come out and take a different route and was pissed because back then, Tablet Magazine described it as a deeply personal account and reported she won a six hundred and twenty five thousand dollar genius grant from the MacArthur Foundation for it. She also won the 2017 Hillman Prize for magazine journalism. Her cover story shows us all that all of us politicians, educators and parents play a role in perpetuating a deeply unjust system. An op ed in Kappen Online, which features articles connecting educational research, practice and policy, called her. The Beyonce of education journalism saying in focusing on her own child's education, she took segregation out of the political arena and brought it into readers homes. Then when she write about writes about this, she she tells her daughter, like when the daughter is like, why am I going to this shitty elementary school? Even she knew even when she was in the single digits. This is a bad school, mom. I shouldn't be here. So I was I was aware I said I was aware of her school's academic rankings, but that tells me that she's not Test scores alone do not define a school. Glancing between her and the road, I told her everything that I had said a hundred times on stages, in interviews, in discussions, since I had made her a symbol of how the choices we make can help sustain or dismantle educational inequality. I talked about the deep inequality in New York schools and how, like those black families who came before us, we had an obligation to be part of the struggle of our larger community. Now, Naya was asking what I had accomplished by not choosing the best school for her. And the honest answer is, I don't know. I don't know. So my point is simply, she's been dining out on that 2016 article and all the plaudits she got and awards she got. Beyonce, please, ever since until the daughter rose up and said, F this, I'm getting out of here. And really, it sounds like. Left her with no choice. And still, she didn't go to some Tony private school. She went to a nicer public school. And Nicole Hannah-Jones was outed as a fraud. I'm sure she was worried she was about to get outed as a fraud. That's, I guarantee you, why she wrote this. This isn't her actually coming to Jesus. This is her daughter browbeating her into submission and her trying to turn it into a triumphant moment for herself. It's a great point. You're the first person I've heard make it because it's it's she's trapped, right? She was she publicly took a massive stance. And now all that has changed at some point in the pretty near future. There would have been a piece by probably a conservative source outing that this was going on, right? Someone would have figured it out and someone would have leaked it and it would have been a big story. She's getting ahead of the news is what she seems to be doing here. And, you know, that's that's that's something to necessarily. Praise it's it's it's she was she trapped herself with her big mouth is what happened years and years ago. Yes. And she had no other choice to reverse herself. And you point out to like the the school system in New York is different than everywhere else in the country, right? Like there is a very like I have friends who live in New York who, you know, especially kids with particular educational needs to get them in the quote unquote right high school is really difficult. It's like it's a lot of work. It's hard. And unless you're going, you're going to spend. you know, a fortune on private school, getting them into the right public school is very similar to the type of thing that you, you know, in Texas or Florida or Iowa might go through to get them into the perfect, you know, private school, where it's very difficult. There's all sorts of questions. I would wonder almost how she was able to get into it, because it's very, very difficult. But someone with that sort of persona probably pulls a lot of weight in those particular arenas, I'd imagine. You know, I read that article and you hit on, I think, the part that made me like the most depressed about it. Because you have a mom who's making a decision based on her own, her own sort of life, right? Like what, what kind of benefits her? How does she get a $600,000 grant? How does she, you know, continue this public persona? How does she do this? And there's that moment where she talks about how her, her daughter was failing at math. And, you know, she, it was, math was her favorite subject. And the reason it was her favorite subject is because she believed she was good. She was good at it. And she was getting good grades because the teachers couldn't care less whether she was doing the math program, a problem, right or not. They were lying to this poor kid, like almost like a, a parent of a bad singer on American Idol telling them, hey, no, you're actually really, really good at this. And then they got on stage and embarrassed themselves. And it's like, that's crushing. This poor girl just wanted to be good at math and thought she was. And because of the decision her mom made, put her in this like, you know, spiral. Really? Where now I'm sure these conversations as she's presenting them happened, but God only knows, I'm sure they weren't very pleasant. You know, so now she's hurt her own family. She's hurt her daughter's development all to stick to this thing that I think most people who say it know is a lie. She apparently didn't, that these schools are good and you could actually get through them. And there's all these inequality problems. Look, there's all sorts of inequality all over the world. I, you know, one of the reasons I show up to work every day, Megan, is to pay for a school tuition for my children who go to what I think is a really good school. A really, really good school that I think is better than what is around me, which is our very good public schools. And I do that because faith is involved in it. And I think that's a really good thing. And I'm glad we're able to do that. Not everybody can. I'm glad there's school choice programs that are making it accessible for many more people today. Thank God. One of the good things that came out of COVID is that. But like, I'm not like, I, the, one of the reasons I show up to work every day is to make my kids life better. Not to try to, not to try to prove my points by ruining their lives. And so this is not someone who should, who should get an award for this. This is something to be seen as a, a real moment of, of self-reflection. Hopefully it is for her. I don't know that she's capable of it, frankly, with the other work that she's done. I've got, I've, I've got to say this. I don't believe, I don't believe in any of the self-reflective bullshit that she's putting in this piece. I'll tell you what Nicole Hannah-Jones is actually thinking about. This is my opinion. The kid's 16 now, the daughter's 16, and I believe a junior. And when you are a 16-year-old junior, you are starting to think about college. And I will venture a guess she's not at the top of her class at this new school. And I'll bet she's probably not doing so well on the practice SATs, given the fact that she wasn't learning math for her entire education, thanks to her mother. And I guarantee you, Nicole Hannah-Jones is trying to very publicly grease the path into whatever. She's going to go to her vaunted university she wants her daughter to go to, because all bets are off when we get there, and just telegraph to everybody, these terrible scores and these terrible grades are her mother's fault, not hers. And you should know that part of her story is she, too, is full of virtue. She went to these schools because we were trying to improve them. So those D's she's getting at the tougher school are really ethical A's. And I guarantee you, Nicole Hannah-Jones is trying to very publicly grease the path into And that's how you should be looking at Nala's transcript. I'm telling you, Nicole Hannah-Jones is a bad person. She's a total liar. Read her piece about Charlie Kirk. It's a disgusting, filthy, defamatory smear. She smeared him in his grave. She didn't give a shit what that would do to his legacy, his children, his wife. She enjoys heaping pain on white people who are conservative. She's a bad person. So I don't believe this. For one second, she's had a come-to-Jesus moment. She's greasing the wheels for her now uneducated daughter to sail right into whatever university of choice she and the husband went to. That's what she's doing. And you know what? The sad part about all this, Megan, is you know who's going to buy that argument? 98% of universities around the country. She will get into any school that she wants. I mean, she will get into any school that she wants. It will work like an absolute charm. You know why? It's similar to what you were saying about the juror earlier. They're all going to be terrified to reject this kid. God forbid you say, you know what? Your 18 score on the PSATs isn't high enough to get into our university. You know, like, what's going to happen? They're going to be in the New York Times. They're all going to be, their university is going to get trashed if they say no to her. Every single university in America, with the very few exceptions I could probably name, off the top of my head, are going to say, of course, come in. Absolutely. And you know what? Whether she's smart or not, she'll get good grades in the school, too. It's a terrible, I mean, like, it's everything that they complained about with that actress who said, I can't remember her name, you probably know it, but the actress that sent her kid to the school and, you know, was Lori Loughlin. She got bashed for that. What's the difference? At least she cared about her daughter's education. At least she cared about her going to a good school instead of a bad one. I mean, gosh, we get so fired up about this. I can't believe, we all know how this plays out. And I think you're totally right. She knows how it plays out, too. And she's playing the right side of it, at least right now, for her. The only justice that could possibly emerge from this is if the daughter registers Republican, declares herself a conservative, and says she wants to go to Liberty University. I mean, if there's any justice in the world, that's what will happen next. That the daughter, having been firsthand as an object, obviously bright kid, stuffed into a shitty school and pushed to accomplish nothing by a woke, virtue-signaling mother, who we all know is a nightmare, revolts against this whole system of identity politics. And no one gives a shit about individualism. And it's all about, allegedly, the collective good, even though they can't change the collective good group at a time. It has to be done on an individual basis by demanding excellence. And she's not at a place. That demanded that of anybody. And the irony is neither did Nicole Hannah-Jones. You know, you actually could be. If you want to go tiger mom and be that person who's, like, all over your kids' stuff, you can do it. But I got newsflash. The very groups that aren't getting into these universities now, the Asians, those are the ones who actually will go tiger. They will make sure those kids are getting A's. Like my friend Amy Chua says, if an Asian kid ever came home with a B in math, well, that would never happen. That's what she says. But I was just saying, like, so she threw her to the wolves and then said, go ahead and devour her. She didn't check the homework. She didn't make sure she could read. She didn't take a look at the assignments. And at every turn, when the child complained, she went in, she saw more problems, and then left her there. Yeah, you know, it's so funny. I thought of that, too, as I was reading it. Like, I don't think that could happen to my kids. I don't think it could happen. And I'm not saying this is a point of inequality. I'm saying the point is that, like, I see their homework. Like, I would realize they weren't good at math before the school had to tell me or the tests had to tell me later on in their years. Like, you'd look at it. You'd see, wait a minute. No, wait a minute. How did you get an A on this? These are all wrong. Like, I would have noticed through this period. And look, I'm sure she's really busy, you know, doing her $50,000 an hour speeches, right? And I get it, you know, because capitalism's evil, you know, of course. You've got to show up for those $50,000 speeches. But, like, any normal, I think, parent, right? Any normal parent would notice when their kid thought that they were proficient and it was their best topic. And in reality, all of the questions were wrong. Now, she did say she asked for these graded papers and they weren't giving them to them. But, like, I don't know. My experience with my children and every other school. Right, yeah. And then she stayed anyway. She stayed. Stayed anyway. To prove her little point, right? To prove her little point. You know, it's like some parent being like, you know what? I believe smoking does not. It does not cause lung cancer. So I'm having my kids smoke over and over and over again. And no matter how much evidence you get that smoking causes lung cancer, you just keep popping the Marlboros in her mouth. Like, this is ridiculous. And you're doing it for your own benefit, which makes it worse. And then the nerve to play the racism card. She finally transfers to a good school. And in the pages of the New York Times, Nicole Hannah-Jones has to dump on the school by calling them, a bunch of racists who allegedly referred to something about her daughter as ghetto, which, by the way, can be said about anybody. You know what I mean? Like, I've got certain earrings that people call ghetto. Whatever. Of course, she's got to go the racist thing, right? Like, when it didn't work out perfectly, and all white schools that are public in New York, the presumption is that they're racist. It's the same thing we saw with Sunny Hostin last week when we were making fun of her because she's written these absolutely terrible, terrible romance novels still. And she was on The View complaining that not one has gotten made into a movie. And she said it's because the publishing or because of the Hollywood industry is racist, that they are bigoted against black and brown stories. Sure, sure. She's got to play that card, right? Her son went to Harvard. But like the whole system, right, education, in her case is Hollywood, racist. It's like whenever these privileged black women don't get exactly their way, they've got to play the card. Just so just so I guess people know there's still a card carrying member of the woke left who doesn't like whites. It's just so cynical. Yeah, I think what you're trying to say is Nicole Hannah-Jones bravery is really on display for writing this piece. And you're giving her all sorts of plaudits for that. I see what you're saying, Megan. I see what you're saying. Unbelievable. Sure, she'll be on the MK show soon. Soon to do a first person account. But hats off to the daughter. I will say that. Stu, thank you. A great time. Great to see you. Thanks so much. Tomorrow we are back. We will give you the full rundown that the Earl has been up to over in the UK, along with our pals from Ruthless. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No BS, no agenda and no fear. You.