Preseason Takeaways and Bold Predictions That We're Chewing On!

Welcome to the wringer NFL show. I'm your host, shield Kapate. We've got a couple great topics today. First of all, pre-season takeaways. And if you're thinking, "Shield, I didn't even really watch much pre-season," don't worry. That's why we have our guest Austin Gail. The guy loves the pre-season. And he came to the table with pre-season takeaways that he felt like I and all of you need to know about. And they led to some lively discussions, arguments you might even call. So that was really fun. And then in the second half of the show, I have these takes that I'm thinking about going on the record with. But I'm not sure if I can get quite get there for the 2026 NFL season. So I brought three to the table with Austin. And he either said, "Yeah, I agree with you. You're right, shield." Or he talked me out of them. So it's a really fun show. Let's take a break. We'll come right back with Austin Gail. This episode of the Ringer NFL show is presented by Orgain. Orgain Criatine helps improve muscle size, strength and power when combined with a regular exercise and weight training routine. Plus, it's certified with informed choice, which means it's tested for prohibited substances in sports. Upgrade your performance with Orgain Criatine, available at Amazon, Costco, Walmart, and Whole Foods. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. All right. We are back here on the Ringer NFL show with my friend Austin Gail. Austin, I noticed I didn't prep you for this. But I noticed that we are on very different schedules because as we were texting about the pod and what we're going to talk about, your text came in at 5.11am, my time, and I responded like an hour later. You live on the West Coast. I live on the East Coast. I just feel like we're living very different lives. Yeah. The preseason sink has kind of caught me some sleepless nights here, having a rewatch tape. I also do that kind of like millennial thing where when you have my text attention, I might send you like four texts in a row on the same subject and like half of them might be LOL. So I kind of bombard you with notifications at 5am your time and that's on me. It's okay. I appreciate it because I go silent mode when I'm sleeping anyway. So don't worry. You didn't wake me up. I saw it when I woke up. We talked about, hey, what are we going to talk about on the pod? And here's what we're going to talk about. Austin loves the preseason. He once pitched an idea for I believe himself to watch every minute of every preseason game. I remember that Austin many years ago. And I was like, man, this guy, like I like football, but this guy like really, really, really likes football. So I'm someone who usually says the preseason's a liar. Everybody settle down. They don't draw big conclusions about what you're seeing in these games. So here's your goal here. Austin is to convince me why I need to pay attention to some of your takeaways from the first week of preseason. So let's do it. What is first on your list from preseason action that I actually need to pay attention to? I have overarching league takeaways that are important if we have time to get to them. That's a tease there. But let's get to specific team takeaways and start with a team that played their starters on both sides of the ball. A lot of their starters on both sides of the ball deep into their opening preseason debut. And that was the Tennessee Titans with new head coach Robert Salah and the new offense coordinator Brian Dayball. And the only takeaway I had from that was going against the Niners backups. The substation survivors. They look horrible. Like Kim Ward is missing easy passes. It feels like they're trying to press the easy button with him already in the first preseason game. The offensive line at the tackle position feels underwhelming. I know they just paid Skaronsky in the middle there. But like everywhere else it feels like they have a weakness. I'm just not I want to buy this like massive coaching improvement over the Calahans with Salah and Dave all. But like this is going to be I think a lot of newness for the Tennessee offense. It looks like they want to funnel like 120 targets to Wondail Robinson. The free agent receiver they brought in from New York paid him a ton of money. But like small catch radius need those balls to be accurate. Carl Tates a rookie. Maybe Ridley is this guy. And we'll see more of him in the regular season. But it's hard to have any reaction after one game. Obviously it's one game. But looking at the Titans starters against again, Niners backups. They look bad. Okay. So there's two parts to this to focus on. I think probably the bill. Let's start with the big one. And that is Kim Ward believer or nonbeliever. And I sort of remember you even going back to last season being like, you know, I know the film guys are saying they're still bullish on Kim Ward. But I'm not so sure is that is that kind of where you're at with Ward as he enters his second season? Because I think there will be some people who predict that he's going to make a big leap this year. And it might not result in the Titans being a playoff team. But like if you're a Titans fan, you want at the end of this season to be like, all right, Kim Ward really has potential. He looks at the very worst like competent, maybe above average starting quarterback that we can project being our guy for years to come. Now as we know, there's no guarantees that that's going to happen. So where are you? Not just based on what you saw because I did see Kim Ward snaps in that preseason game. And it was a lot of the things we saw last year inaccurate, questionable decision making. It just feels a little panicky at time like it's a countdown until he does something crazy. And you weren't sure is that a rookie being a rookie, or is it more than that? So where are you on the potential for Kim Ward to make the leap versus the potential for the Titans to be in like, I don't know if we actually have a quarterback at the end of this season. I think of course that with the talent that he has, there's always going to be potential for him to be a crazy starting caliber quarterback in the league in the same way that there's always potential for Anthony Richardson. Now I have a higher opinion of Ward than Richardson even after his recent preseason game. But with Ward, to me, it's like, why with second year quarterbacks, right? Do we all, I mean, I shouldn't say all, but do I think there's always among fan bases, especially this assumed second year job. When like when you look at data, it suggests that oftentimes it's more of a second year slump. And you saw it with Stroud, and you've seen it with Daniels. And like, not everything stays the same. And guess what's changing with Kim Ward, the entire offense, his number one receiver, the offense, like you have, I think, I think so much newness that like it's, it's also, I think fair to expect that it might not be great right away. Even though I think going into this first preseason game, I'm like, holy shit, Brian Callan and his dad were terrible. And maybe just having Salah and Dave all here to failed head coaches, maybe I'm missing something there, but like having Dave all in Salah is going to like dramatically improve this team. I like the Simmons contract. I like what they added on defense. Like it feels good. But now kind of pulling away. It's like, well, what if it takes time for Kim Ward to figure out this offense? What if it takes time to figure out Robinson as this go to threat who needs to turn a screen work? Like what if the Titans are slow out of the gate and then all of a sudden, because they aren't like a super talented team and a young team with new coaches, do this is kind of like a middle, if not underwhelming season for a second year quarterback. That like I said, everyone thinks Shuck, when Kellanmore year two, big jump, Max Kellerman on game over is like, we have our quarterback Jackson Dart. He's the future. It's like, how are we blindly bullish and confident on quarterbacks when like, obviously so much can change, right? Like we are game to game with these guys because of how important they are to winning games. I think it's always important to when it's a rookie quarterback specifically to add context, because most rookie quarterbacks are not going to play well. And maybe we'll talk about another one later in this segment. But just for context, Austin, I was looking at the last 10 years of rookie quarterback performances. There's been 32 rookies who have basically started in their first seasons. Among that sample, among 32 Kim Ward's rookie season ranks 26th, the guys below him, Justin Fields to Sean Kaiser, Zach Wilson, CJ Bethard, Bryce Young and Josh Rosen. So it's not great company of guys who bounced back and had great career now. I will say Caleb Williams, Trevor Lawrence, Josh Allen, those guys were not good as rookies and they did make something of it. But that's just to put into context kind of what we saw of him as a rookie. I think the Josh Allen comp has to die eventually because he was literally built. It has to run away. One of one, please legitimately. I remember covering him when I was a writer for San Diego States newspaper and he was at Wyoming in the Mountain West Conference. We played him twice that year down the stretch. And you just immediately saw that he was just the freak usually big athletic superhero quarterback. And I feel like obviously it took time. He developed with the ball. But I think for me, and how it kind of comes back to Kim Ward. And I feel like I want to talk about this with Fernando Mendoza as well. The number one overall pick for my raids is, what did we learn from Kim Ward playing all last year? If anything, I think Dave Almighty walked into that room and said, forget everything. Literally forget everything from week one. All we've got is some sparks, some highlights, some things we're excited about. Now we're going into year two, expecting bigger things. And now like the expectations are actually arguably after a terrible season, higher, even after all the data you just presented him being as terrible as quarterbacks. We barely even name anymore. We're still really excited for this year to with Kim Ward. And I feel like it's just again, young quarterbacks, especially number one overall picks, things that like your team is going to be four years in the hole. If this doesn't pan out, there's so much blind optimism going to year two. And like, again, it's one preseason game we're overreacting. We still need to watch more team. But like, again, I feel like I came into this year wanting to look at Titans 7 plus wins. Titans, maybe dark horse make the playoffs, but until I see something better from the starters going against backups in the preseason, like I'm fading this Tennessee team until these two failed head coaches. And a quarterback, we still don't know who he is yet. It does something relevant. So you mentioned the coaching situation last year. And I would, I mean, Brian Callie, that was just an all time, I mean, one of the worst coaching performances I've had. His dad was on that step. I want that known. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, if we're going to call out every coaching staff that has a family member on it, it's going to be a lot. That might be a good pot. Maybe next off season, we go ahead and do that. But, you know, I think the assumption that Brian Devall is gonna like come in and just man, he knows what he's doing I don't know where this comes from other than Brian Devall's own, you know, propaganda among among the media or whether it comes from just living off of Being next to Josh Allen for a couple years when really what we've got a gacy the more you think about it with gays and manning and Gays and Rogers like we got to see it. We have to see it with Cam and like if you had to argue is Devall Coaching for his job closer to coaching for his job or feeling really secure same thing same question for Salah I would say you know this year looks like shit both those coaches might be looking at you know being scapegoats after the season Especially if the fans want to still be bullish on their number one overall pick Cam Ward. So he like Amazing, see I say brief season the liar and Austin saying one and done Salah and Dave all you're out of here after what I just Want to watch until next week until next week again the jury's out until next week. We're gonna be watching more tape We probably should move off the Titans. That's on me. Hold on. I do. I just want to make the hammer home the day ball point because the resume here Okay, so we had a good first year with the Giants, you know with Daniel Jones and now they make the playoffs the next two years They finish 29 and 29 Any paper drive and you can say she'll come on look at they eat enough talent What I wasn't paying attention Austin. What did Daniel Jones do once he left? Brian dayball did he or was it? Oh only the like the biggest story in the NFL last year Bleeding the number one offense in the NFL. So I don't understand why I'm supposed to believe that Brian dayball is gonna go there And you know the offseason. It was like he was this hot commodity everyone's fighting over Brian dayball I'm like dude. It was no one paying attention the last two years here So yeah that I have a question about the old line. I have a question about Brandon Thorn has them as the worst offensive line in the NFL He did his projections on established the run and he had the Titans 32 and then the first point you want to talk about guys sending 2 a.m. Texts that's Brandon Thorard about offensive line. Plants are if the Titans are 30 second That means something's wrong something's really wrong and they have big investment along the offensive line They just made scrawls. He one of the highest paid guards in the league like this isn't an offensive line That's like trying to figure it out. They've like late them's a first round pick. Like it's it's weird. It's it's gonna be interesting And it's like do you trust it because you mentioned earlier Salah and Brian dayball a combined 36 games under 500 as head coach yourself I'm sorry Titans fan. This is for listen. This is probably too negative of of one But I have to be honest. I'm going through my team by team breakdowns and the under on the Titans was one of my favorite You know I like that one quite a bit where I'm like wait this team's gonna get to seven wins this team with this online But I want to believe in Kim war. I will say this the NFL is more fun If if if everyone's laughing at us for this pod in week seven or week eight and it's like Kim word came out and the talent Showed and he looks like one of the bright new quarterbacks in the NFL because when he's on he is really fun to watch He's got the peaks even last year in that train wreck. We saw the peaks It's a matter of consistency and it's a matter of those valleys. Maybe not being so long. Okay So came that's the case. I'd like to see it against Seattle in Nashville next week like these are pretty easy games He's gonna play like it must win. It's not much win But like could I see some good play like could you play well like Drew Aller. I mean Ty Simpson is getting unwirly Attention already like I mean if he if if if Kim Ward had Drew Aller's game or Haynes Kings game or Carson That's game even Fernando Mendoza's game We're having a completely different conversation because obviously we're one week into the preseason and we've got two games left There you are. Let's take a quick break. We come back. We get to more of Austin's takeaways from the first week of the preseason This episode is brought to you by EA sports madden NFL 27 Powered by the all-new persona engine here. It's your league every decision you make counts and for an extra challenge get the kick-off bundle It comes with the college football 27 and madden NFL 27 standard editions from campus legend to NFL superstar Make your rise with the kick-off bundle learn more at EA dot com Read it e for everyone with mild lyrics users interact and in-game purchases Includes random items conditions and restrictions apply scan QR code for more info All right, we are back here on the ringer NFL show are we covered Kim Warden Titan's Austin. What do you have? What's number two here? All right, I've been teasing it. Let's hit Fernando. Okay. Let's talk Fernando a little bit You are Raiders fans. I'm very curious to hear how excited you are how unexcited you are what you think go ahead Die Hard Raiders fan lifelong Raiders fan. I was there for Jermarcus Russell and who was selected number one overall Couldn't be more different quarterbacks. We have now at first overall and I think we have a much much better plan Right, I mean Jermarcus Russell's rookie year was ruined because he held out for a contract when rookies could still do that But for now like there's a Ted talk essentially that's about 10 minutes long circling the internet if you look for it deep for it That we're Tom Brady kind of explains why developing developing Tom Brady by the way that Tom Brady the best quarterback ever He explains why developing quarterbacks now is so bad because they rush them in with high expectations and dumb down the offense Because coaches are trying to win now because guess what happens when you're drafted number one overall You're on the worst fucking team in the NFL with coaches like Matt Eberfluss or Callahan or Urban Meyer that might just completely Shit away your initial season right like just lose it and then with the Raiders They're not even in that situation with Kubiak kind of betting on him is this long term often to play collar that should be with Kubiak or with Fernando for the rest of his career they have stability at coach for the first time in a very long time Right, they have fired 14 head coaches since the year 2001 the average of the NFL in that span is seven no other team is higher than 11 They've rebuilt and reborn every two years essentially now they actually have a plan where Kurt Cousins Even if he starts out horrible and they're one in 12 to start the season It's setting better expectations and giving more time for Fernando to learn what has to be a very complex Motion-heavy multiple personal offense for Kubiak to thrive as we saw when he brought Sam Donald a limb party So the fact that they're sitting him on the shelf and tempering expectations and people are crying at him Starting sooner and blah blah blah. That's a better situation than trying to rush him in and make sure that everyone can start having takeaways on Fernando Mendoza as soon as week 1 because there's no rush to winning in 2026 You know that the long-term plan is Mendoza and if it if it takes time until he's ready in the offense understands everything I think the best plan their buy is late this year week 13 they have five games after the buy three straight home games It's Denver Chargers Titans road cardinals road cheese he gets three straight home games out of the buy Two shitty non-division teams and then all three division rivals to prepare for 2027 when things start to matter that to me is as close to the chiefs Alex Smith plan or even like other plans where we've gone into the year Wanting to sit the no more overall pick we wanted to do that with Baker until Hugh Jackson was so bad that he had to start We wanted to do it with Herbert until Tyra Taylor got stabbed in the lungs We wanted to do with Carson Palmer and then when he got his time started to look good go off the same way like you look at no One overall pick specifically when you go into the season with the plan to sit him you Look back on history and time and time again. It actually ends up leading to better results I think this is the perfect situation for Fernando and I don't think I want to see him sooner than week 14 Wait, so you actually believe that they would be willing to start Kirk cousins and go one in 12 and sit Mendoza on the bench So you do think this is a come just a this is a Brady decision a Brady edict where he basically told everyone in the organization This is what we're doing. We're not strained from this plan. This man is not seeing the field until we get I was convincing People when people you know before Pete Carol was let go. I still miss him by the way But before Pete Carol was like oh that they were gonna one-hand done him like they were ready to one-hand done him And the day that they did the first thing the Raiders release is that this is Tom Brady's decision now Tom Brady is gonna pick the next hug coach Tom Brady is gonna picks the next quarterback and that's where we're going because Mark Davis because he's fired 14 different regimes over the last 24 years does not want to touch this team anymore He doesn't he wants someone else to make the decisions and someone else to take the blame Brady is all over the Kubi Act decision which somehow the Raiders are really one of the worst landing spots added The best offense to play color available in the offseason with 10 openings don't know how that happened Maybe it's Brady and then you layer in this additional idea that like Mark Davis like me and maybe others trust Tom Brady on how to develop the quarterback position almost blindly Maybe that's dumb and it ends up like his end-of-t situation or the Brady brand that's been deleted or the whatever else Everything else in his life close play career is what I was really bad there. Yes. It's been really bad But like this I'm not asking him to be an announcer. I'm asking him to tell you know Fernando how to get under center like legitimately Like get under center. How is he hands on in there like he's doing a bunch of different things And you're just handing him the keys and saying he's gonna have a great plan for the Raiders and Mendoza and I trust Tom Breath like why do you trust Tom Brady? I know that sounds stupid for beta said given his playing days But this is a very this is a very different job than going and preparing for an opponent and playing quarterback I know he's good at that. I know he was great at that I don't know that he's good at this job and by the way We have zero evidence that he's good at this job other than I mean clear lesson You're very excited about landing the guy who had the 16th ranked offense last year based on EPA for drive Don't even start this guy's a winner. What are you doing you're gonna disperse who disparate him and the Fernando my god Oh, you're talking Yeah, I just took journal to a Superbowl and you're calling him washed 14 and three the year before in Minnesota. I don't maybe there was a little more talent there. I don't I can't with you I can't I if you go back and watch the all 22 which I've done twice now on the Raiders Cardinals game look at the offensive line I let's remind the audience the Raiders offense of the season game. You've got no no no need to of course of course It's the Raiders but last year the Raiders offensive line was coached by Brennan Carol He's only ever had a job in the NFL when he's working for his dad Pete Carol the Seattle offensive lines He coached were the worst in the league by past blocking efficiency remember the Ben jock demeaniers the germane of petty years Oh, those were great. Then he comes back first time back in the league coaches the Raiders decides to switch up the entire interior Colton Miller gets hurt and then the offensive line has meetings without him because they were trying to get better That's what was happening last year So you bring in and Chip Kelly who's now been somehow golden parachuted to Northwestern I can't wait to watch that team was calling plays that he did not install in practice So you're going from that lack of detail to Kubiak and an offense in an offensive line now, and I can think of you know like Invest in it tied in with powers and mayor and and I think they're receiving things a little bit overblown Because they're gonna be in so much 12 and 20 personnel I think the improvement for the offense and I say this every year because we've rebuilt every you know two years less Whatever, but I honestly think this is the the time you see this offense taken major lead because the Kubiak edition The Linda bomb edition those two alone with powers healthy with Colton heli healthy It's gonna be massive. I think the Raiders are gonna be surprising offensively at least I think defensively it could still be a nightmare But I think number on this like how good you and with their like I think they're 12. I think they're top 12 No, you think the Raiders are gonna have a top 12 offense this year. That's true. Okay. Let me let me reshape Let me reshape this to top 14 Our audience was not grinded the all-twenty-two film of their preseason game twice Tray Tucker maybe one of the most underrated receivers in league just go watch the tape They brought in speedy nailer speedy for a reason. I don't even think he's gonna play that much jack best looks better now Then real coaches coaching the offense the offensive line is healthier obviously coached by a better offensive line coach and Rick Denison Kubiak and then they're not gonna play that many receivers This is a Brock Bowers and Michael mayor operation a Cameron Hayward who looks really good in the 34 transition from the a3 in Pittsburgh Is now gonna play full-time full-back for them. They're gonna be in two wide receiver sets all the time So I don't really care if they don't really have more than two good receivers because they're not gonna play that many Brock Bowers is six foot three two thirty five you want to look for the right receiver one. He's right there I mean just I could picture defensive coordinators Staying up at night. How are we gonna defend Connor Hayward and Michael mayor who no, oh wait wait for Michael The mayor Las Vegas just heard that just heard that okay. He just heard that all right So here's what I'm gonna do Austin cuz you really I like listen I like when someone makes a bold proclamation and then you ask for a follow-up that they don't cower You know you felt the heat you could have been like well. I don't know. I think you didn't do that He said top 12 if they are top 20 go at what metric do you want to use EPA DBOA let's go Combined you'll success rate and EPA let's go like kind of composite. Yeah. Yeah, yeah I got you if they finish top 20. I Will buy you dinner. I'm not expensing it because a lot of times a lot of times we see each other You know where they would set a work thing so I can expense it. I will buy you a non-expense dinner at any restaurant of your choice If they finish top 20 in EPA. I'm coming to really cuz that's it. Okay. I can't wait that would be great I would love that people are feeling we love to see you now all right So Austin's on board with the Raiders plan sit Mendoza start cuz it's Austin here's where if I was like presenting to Tom Brady I'd be like Tom listen good to see you first of all Thanks for joining us in Vegas here wherever you were running the team from earlier in the week that was fun to but Tom I like your plan with the quarterbacks, but you know what I kind of think with Mendoza Maybe we don't need to do that because did you watch him in that preseason game his head wasn't spinning He looked good. He was firing in breakers tight windows out breakers He was making a bunch of different types of throws. Did you see that touchdown passie? He made he was protecting our receiver in the end zone and Tom This guy's got great intangibles. We may be showing up earlier than everyone in the morning. He's leaving late He's all about football his teammates love him So we don't have to worry about him the way we would a normal quarterback and here's the thing Tom from a team perspective One of our you know analytics guys was doing the research the average rookie quarterback Generally performs like let's say the 26 best starter in the NFL and you know cousins who we're gonna start here Last year he was like the 25th best quarterback in the NFL statistically So if we're just convinced that Mendoza can give us average Start rookie average start quarterback play for a rookie. It's probably gonna be around the same level as cousins Plus he's getting all those wraps. I don't think he's gonna develop that habits. What do you think? Maybe we just throw him in there week six weeks seven. What do you think Austin did I convince you? I think I'd laugh you out the room and fire you because You're crazy. You're saying Brady no listen you can't me and said you watch more pre-season I don't think anyone can have takeaways from pre-season. Did you say that and so that your pitch would be to go to Brady and say Fucking Mendoza looked good in one preseason game against backups and you're like It looks good. Oh, you've seen the practices you see the practices On top of that that like well technically Brady the 26 the rookie plays 26th and and Mendoza If he could get to 24th and take 40 sacks and play like shit and everyone have a takeaway in his You just don't mean their online is gonna be good But but maybe it's not and then their photoshopping Michael Sarah on the Fernando Mendoza after primetime games and like Yeah, like I said, maybe he's wired differently your friends aren't your teammates aren't your family isn't he's still gonna see it Yeah, he's only on LinkedIn still everyone else in the room could see it He throws three picks in an island game all of a sudden He's JJ McCarthy and that one mean like those takes aren't worth it because these games this year don't matter And that's what Brady understands like like it doesn't make sense to aim for average quarterback play and maybe make the playoffs in a division with Patrick Mahomes just a Herbert and fucking Sean Payton like this isn't the year you need time You're gonna trade Crosby in the Aussies and incompletely reset take your time build this right and don't try to aim for the Analytics or over react to this one preseason game. You'll play your game trust your plan. There's no reason to react Okay, but reps do matter I think even Brady would agree the way you get better the most is to Play in games and learn from what that's like well, then you should go watch his TED talk because he says you probably shouldn't play as a rookie until you understand the offense completely now if you tell me Maybe those a yeah, maybe he does like if you start to see reports that like Fernando's ready He understands the offense better than Kirk. Let's start seeing some reps. Let's go But if like we see some hints of that Austin I are, but it's one game. We're one game in no But I'm looking at some of the comments Kubiak is made Recently, like I had the conspiracy theory that he threw Max Crosby and Kirk cause he suspended on for the practice so he could have Mendoza get some first team reps there Yeah, he also did that because I feel like I mean he bought every player on the Cocks roster a Bible last year like he's the guy that I feel like has like a Standard and he made team the Raiders earned their shield in training camp like he's got like a traditional kind of like high school You know, Chuck's vibe about him. It's why I think him and Mendoza are gonna really work together along with kind of cringy ass Brady, but just do it on our time like we do not have to rush anybody in. We're not playing this game for anyone else The Raiders have been at the bottom of the NFL for as long as I can remember. Let's take our time All right, so you know the infrastructure of this team the power dynamics the management set up better than anybody I know let's say it's week seven and they're two and five and Cousins is just falling off the cliff He looks like one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL and that because it does matter to teammates who you know whether you're actually playing the guy He gives you the best chance to win and Mendoza's crushing it in practice and he just seems he seems like he knows the playbook inside and out He's you know in the meetings. He's pointing out stop that that they're just they've never seen from a rookie before and Coupi Act goes to Brady and has that conversation Tom and what you said. I'm with you. We're on the same page here But I do think we need to reevaluate this How does that is it just Brady just have the final say on everything and Coupi X not even think of having that conversation or how does that conversation come I'd be Absolutely shocked if Brady's opinion is not had on win Fernando plays I think his opinion can change but I don't think it's going to change based on how good Fernando plays in practice or in Preseason if Kirk is even just Serviceable and giving us an opportunity to evaluate the other players on the roster Kirk let it touch down drive in that game Obviously Fernando looked good too. It's the Coupi Act offense. That's really speaking but like Let if Kirk is like what you said 20 second, you know in that range and the Raiders aren't losing games because of the offense or Unable to evaluate offensive skill players because of the offense But it's the defense that has questions in the secondary Crosby's kind of by himself along the D-line like they brought in new linebackers But it's a lot of newness new defensive coordinator I think that like they could be losing games because the defense but the offense still looks okay even if it's not no the ceiling We expect I think what's really going to determine if Brady shifts off this plan or even Kubi Act shifts off this plan is if you know Kirk completely bottoms out which is very much in play or gets hurt right that I think it's gonna be the hard like okay Duh we got to play Mendoza, but if Kirk is Serviceable like I'm talking Alex Smith the year that the chiefs traded up for Patrick Mahomes serviceable I don't see the reason for the Raiders to rush him in like the chiefs Yeah, I didn't draft it Mahomes first overall But they trade up in the first round to go get him and they still stayed calm And now Alex Smith was a different caliber quarterback than Kirk is now, but I I think they see it as a similar situation All right last Raiders question before we move on Max Crosby is he on this team after the in season trade deadline Really depends on the start obviously. I think that if they start out Terrible, I think they're gonna look to move him again and field calls and be okay with not getting to work Because as they should, right? And I think they're gonna be okay with not getting too first because all of the capital is gonna be in 2020. And if we know anything already about this 2027 class, is that good non-quarterbacks are gonna fall in the first round because there's so many quarterbacks that are expected to kind of dominate that those first 10 picks, archmaning, Lenora sellers, Dante Moore, Mestemaker, CJ Carr, we could probably keep going down the list. The Sam Levitt, there's so many quarterbacks that are gonna be in people's draft guides starting in October that teams are falling over and then next thing you know, good off into tackle slips. Call 'Nsonance' from Texas slips. Gooseby, give me Gooseby. - We can't be making a cheermice mess. - I'm already 2027, baby, look out, look out. - Okay, all right, okay. So Austin says, maybe they trade Max Crossby. All right, what's the next take? That was livelihood. We might have to do, maybe we do like a social only shield in Austin, yell at each other about the Raiders weekly. Said, I mean, that could do numbers, I think. Okay, all right, Austin, what's the next take away from precincts? - I'm gobbling up the garbage time, Browns. I'm calling them the garbage time Browns this year for multiple reasons. One, the first is, we are not going to, I think, market correct responsibly to how bad the Browns defense is going to be compared to the way they've been over the last five years. And it's not because just Miles Garrett, and they added Jared Burr, so I think that mitigates on it. It's that Jim Schwartz, the defensive coordinator, didn't quit on the team, like literally quit on the team. Like, he wanted to be the head coach, they went with Monkan Schwartz leaves, and you lose Devin Bush, and you lose Miles Garrett, and Malik Collins is still recovering off the pub, and his backup has been dealing with injuries in August. Like, you start to stack this stuff up. There's so much newness, new defense coordinator, no Miles Garrett, Monkan, in his first year coaching, by the way, older guy, first year coaching, who's focused probably is going to be 100% on the offense, because he's going to look himself in the mirror as a 60 plus year old man, and say, my defense is not getting better without Jim Schwartz and Miles Garrett. So I think that Browns are going to be shit on defense, and offensively, they're going to be in this position. We really haven't seen them, where they have so much skill to play their talent, Quitch on Judkins, Harold Fanon, Denzel Boston, Casey Concepcion, even Jerry Judy. Like, they have, Dylan Samson looked good in the preseason, that if they're in these games, they're down 30, like they weren't all these past years, even if Watson as Shudder look as bad as they did in that preseason game, which I would say is middling to bad, I still think that this offense is going to be very fantasy relevant, and honestly, like, I could see them maybe finding their stride for a couple games and shocking some people, because so many people are just all the way out on the Browns for obvious reasons. The quarterback room is the most disgusting in the league, and the defense, I think, is going to get significantly worse, but I think the stock is so low that I'm just going to gobble it up right now, and I'm looking at Browns, offensive skill players in fantasy, and I'm thinking about betting them in stretches where I've like, there's both defenses are bad, and I think the offense can step up. - Just 'cause so lack had it, you know, viral tweet about Denzel Boston, this and that, everybody gets all excited. All right, so lack, we saw that, settle down. Okay, you know, it could be great. I understand, Browns fans, if you're excited about the rookie class, they do have some fun young players. I'm with you also about the defense. I think there's some thought that they're going to have their defense is going to be pretty good this year, and I like Carson Schwestinger, and I like Jared Verse, but I look around and I'm like, wait, who are the other really good players on this defense, and I'm with you on Jim Schwartz. I feel like he's maybe the most underrated defensive coordinator of like the last 25 years. It just feels like he has a strong, strong track record of being able to coach up defenses, and you have that, and you have losing miles, Jared, that I don't think their defense is going to be very good. I just, my only question with the fantasy stuff is just like, are the quarterbacks going to be able to reach a level where those other guys are relevant? 'Cause they just could have, you know, they just could have the worst quarterback in the NFL this season. That's not going to be shocking to anybody. Probably, I think that's definitely in play, but I think that's priced in. Like, is there a single random casual fan that thinks the Browns quarterback room is good? I think people would rank it 30 seconds across the board. That's the time to buy, because I watched Dylan Samson with some real scoot, take a screen like 40 plus yards. And like, I see, I know Harold Fanon's attacker breaker who dropped a third down that could have extended a drive in the beginning. I know, you know, they had to show, you know how the Browns feel about the Sean Lawson? They had him playing behind the back up Browns offensive line. In the first drive, he was behind the starters, which are, you know, essentially five brand new starters, Kevin Jenkins is coming back, but they completely re-hauled the four other starters, and then they kept playing Lawson behind the guys who played behind those guys. And then you're like, oh man, he's under pressure all the time and kind of looks like shit. And then there was that fourth and one where he has the sack and obviously it looks bad, but like, oh my gosh. He was playing with five legit brand new starters on the office line backups to their starters and didn't look that great. Neither did Shedur. Monkin only cares about the offense. And he has so much skill player talent and a quarterback that like, everyone is already all the way out on. I think that's just how do you fade the Browns at this point? Is there even a way to like fade the Browns? I don't see how it's possible. I do like Monkin too. No one wants to watch the offensive coach, so. He's coaching for his job, right? Monkin is, we'll get fucking thrown out the room if the offense looks like shit and they think it's his fault. He's coaching for his job and a big part of his job is making this quarterback room, chicken shit and a chicken salad. And I have more confidence in him doing that than, you know, you know, completely buying the side that thinks it's gonna be the worst offense in the NFL hands down. My favorite stat about the Browns quarterback, the room Austin is that, the last two years, there's been 78 quarterbacks with at least 200 dropbacks. Among that sample, Shadour Sanders last year ranked 77 and the Sean Watson 2024 ranked 78. The worst two quarterback seasons of the last two years are competing for the starting job. And even with Watson, like, I'm sensing some people wondering like, hey, maybe I'll be a little optimistic on, Watson's played 19 games in the last five seasons. Like, even if it comes out, yeah, even if it comes out and like, oh, it looks so better the first two, three weeks. It's like, it's very unlikely that that's gonna last. But yeah, you are right about the skill group. I am excited at least to watch those guys, two who kind of proved themselves last year and then the rookies who are coming in this year. All right, Austin number four, what do you got? What's the fourth takeaway from preseason? - This is kind of a couched take because I think there are harder takes to hat. I mean, you could be a bit more aggressive here. I think John Harbaugh's Giants could suck out of the gate. Just like, not be good. - I think you could take out - I think you could take out out of the gate would be up strong. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - You want to go stronger? - Yeah, you want to go stronger? - Yeah. - And maybe that's fine. Maybe that is that take. I do think they're getting, you know, I do think that like they have talent and maybe there's a path here. But they open the season on Sunday night football at home against Dallas. And then they, that's Primetime game, Island game. And then we too. - We're just excited. - So far, cross-coast, Monday night football against the Rams. That's their first two games start the season. Those two Island spots against probable playoff team. Some people have Dallas winning the NFC. The Rams are literally the Super Bowl favorites. And I think we're going to come out of those Owen, you know, Owen too, possibly. And the blame bus is going to get gross. It's going to be Roman. It's going to be, it's going to be great Roman. It's going to be naggy. They're going to get Callahan mixed in. They might get Tyrone Tracy's ass. The offensive line could go at blame. Jackson Dart will still be trying to understand what's happening in that time. But like, Skatabo too, but like, they're going to be, the blame bus is going to be, whoo, gassed up, buddy. Gassed up by Owen too, if they start two Island games, where Dart ends up in the medical tent, which has happened in 43% of his games, according to Scott Barrett, including the preseason. Or Skatabo doesn't look 100% coming off a crazy broken leg. Or Malik neighbors coming off an ACL, doesn't look 100% or the defense with brand new defense of coordinators, it doesn't look good. Out of the gate, all three of the Giants starting cornerbacks are hurt. And the starting cornerbacks are Paulson and DeBeau, Drew Phillips, and I'm forgetting the other corner because it's a no name, but like, he's also out. Like they have three hurt corners. I just, I think the Giants could suck right out of the gate. And I think they could start Owen too, kind of be a lost season from there. We know only like 13% of NFL teams make the playoffs after starting Owen too. And if the blame bus is already going around, it's not going to be a healthy work environment. I'll say that. So the big story from the preseason game, you mentioned Jackson Dart going to the Blue Medical 10. So Tyrone Tracy misses the blitz pickup. Jackson Dart gets rocked. So this wasn't one where, oh my god, Jackson Dart's being reckless. No, he was standing in there. The guy was supposed to be picked up. He wasn't picked up. He gets rocked. He goes to the Blue Medical 10. Afterwards, he's upset. He's like, it's a head scratcher to me. It's puzzling why I keep getting sent to the Blue Medical 10. I think the athletic set said that last year, he got sent there five times. And one time was a concussion, but like-- And another time Brian Dable was in there too. Oh yeah, Brian Dable, just like a man. That was just-- that was unbelievable. He was like, get him out here. It's like, already his brain might be scrambled. Brian, do you mind if we do a couple tests here? You might have a lot of damage from this. Dable's like, I'm trying to say what I'm trying to say. I mean, that said a lot, I think, about Brian Dable. But listen, I think there are plays that Jackson Dart makes that you totally see it. Even in this game, he comes back in, no, it's not in structure. I don't know if he's ever going to get there in structure, but he makes the play, he's scrambling to his left. He throws a touchdown to Malachi Fields. Everyone's all excited. Let's say that I can assure you that Jackson Dart is going to be relatively healthy this season. What are fair expectations for how he actually performs? Are you bullish on his talent if he can stay healthy? Because if he can stay healthy, we can all agree. That's a question. Are you bullish on his talent and his ability to perform if he can stay on the field? I feel as bullish as anyone on Tyler Schuck or Cam War, honestly, like, hey, second year quarterback showed some things, brand new offense. Schuck's not in that situation. He's getting that continuity with more. But I think for Dart, rookie quarterbacks, you see some positive things, but you need consistency, right? Because it's a position where if you get sent to the medical tent half your games. it matters if you make bonehead decisions even on two, three, four percent of your plays, you're losing football. Like you're losing football games. Like I think Dart, it's easy to say he has all the talent in the world. He's lightning quick, strong arm and looks competent and like a leader out there, but you need to see a game to game. And part of the reason you haven't is 'cause he keeps getting hurt. And he doesn't even understand why when like there isn't another quarterback in the league taking hits like him. He's the only one who's taking hits. They had to tell him to slide in practice. How am I getting hurt when I'm being told to slide in practice? Like that's how you're getting hurt pal. Like you're getting hurt because you're being reckless and scatabos a little reckless. This team feels a little reckless. And you get a little wet and reckless. You start 'o and two and two island games and everyone's phones buzzing with Michael Saramima on your face, like it's gonna be a little different. And I don't think Harbaugh's gonna be blaming himself. Blaming himself. I don't. I think it's gonna be other people. - I mean, well he does need to look in the mirror with the offensive coach, Safi Hire. I mean, you mentioned that. Maggie Cowley is looking in the mirror with that though. Like it's a scapegoat process. You know, he man did that on purpose. Like it's like, oh, the offensive doesn't work. I might just fire all these guys that have been fired before. Might as well. That's one more shield in front of me. Joe Shane's still up there probably gonna toss. Like, again, like John Harbaugh's not going to be to blame if things go south. And there are a lot of reasons, like real reasons, injury reasons, schedule reasons, youth reasons, newness reasons to expect this to kind of, like least be like a stumble out of the gate versus what it was billed as is like, the giants got the home run of the coaching, you know, characters like they got Harbaugh. Oh my God, they got an adult in the room. It sounds so much like the Pete Carroll thing in Vegas last year, bigger difference is being, you know, Pete was a lot older and was forced to work with people. He didn't know, like Chip Cowley. And like, you know, you don't want to force an old person to get to work with someone they don't know. Like it's just not gonna fly. And like, I think this is a little different in that Harbaugh's working with people he does know. But still, I think there are similarities in that. We're just assuming this monster elite because Harbaugh's just like, you know, professional experience, you know, playoff caliber coach when like, you know, you ask Mallory Ruben as big of a Ravens fan as I know. You know, they're ready to see Harbaugh go, right? You even ask the owner and that a lot of Vans Ravens fur. And it's like, okay, like, you're expecting this big improvement from a coach that the Ravens didn't even want. That it's certain to add up, right? With a coaching staff that everyone hates, I don't know, man, and a lot of injuries, it's gonna be a weird season. I think it's gonna be a tough season, potentially. There are pockets of talent, certainly, you know, the old line could be decent and leak neighbors, dual carder, Brian Burns. It's like, sometimes you look at the depth chart and you're like, I can kind of see it, you know, it's shit. But they trade away Dexter Lawrence, right? - No. - And like, I know they could have the worst for defense in the NFL. - Yeah, they really could. - But they throw out his talent like a leader. Like, he was like the longest tenure giant, I believe, when they moved on him from him like a thief in the night when Harbaugh was just ready to fucking go. Like, just gone, like, I'm gone, it's gone. - Yeah. - And like, did you get a good fit? - If you're gonna trade it, of course. - You got a great sensation. - Yeah, but I wanna ask the giant's defense that's rostered this year. If they really are happy about that 10th overall pick, which I believe is Frances Mary Noah, because they're missing Sexy Dexy, who has not just been the reason their run defense has been up there, but also have really good past rushing nose tackle and someone that has been on the team leading the huddle for fucking what, 10 years? - Yeah, it's a big change. - Look at you. You're all spent in my Dexter Lawrence's leadership ability. That might, that's amazing. - I happened to be in that locker room, actually. I mean, that guy has fucking like legitimate, like, gravity dog, like, obviously, 'cause he's huge. - Okay. - I think it's more gravity 'cause he's the size of a planet, but like, the player's huddle around that guy. He's the reason they knock. - All right, there you go. Austin, great job with the preseason takeaways. I feel like I'm up to speed. I know what matters. What did it matter? Now, we didn't mention Jeremiah Loft. Do you have anything to rant on with Jeremiah Loft and the high ankle sprain on his 14 freaking carry? - Sorry, you said it's a high ankle sprain. LaFlohawk said it was not nothing, said it was nothing. Oh, no, but now it's a high ankle sprain. Now it's a high ankle sprain. Interesting. So he tried to poo poo the injury. When you go back and watch that play, by the way, it's a clear hip drop tackle, which you hate to see. But Jeremiah Loft is not only getting his 14th touch of the first half of the first week of the preseason. - That's grounds for firing. - Grounds for firing, but also, when you see him looking down at his ankle, after a clear hip drop tackle, where I'm like jumping up and down at my screen, like holy shit, he looks hurt. He's looking down at his ankle. LaFloor's looking to the next play, like he's calling the two-minute drone, the fucking Super Bowl. - Man, I'm calling the time out. - Because he need to swap fucking up. - It's like, hey, love, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, they call time out, love gets pulled out. We don't really hear about the injury. The broadcast is not even talking about it 'cause the home broadcast, I'm watching Kirk Morris and Rich Ganon talk about the Raiders. But then out of the gate, LaFloor's like, oh, it's an ankle, we'll see. And then like, now it comes out at the high ankle, which is like the worst anchor injury you can get. And then you layer in, that's their first round pick. Their second round pick, Chase Besantis on his 70th snap of the preseason is now out for the season, 'cause it's towards me. I think it was his knee. Then you have their third round pick, Carson Beck, who looked to it in that Hall of Fame game, now out missing time with a rib injury. And their fourth round pick, Kaila Proctor, Diffits Tackle, missing the entire season with an injury. So all four of their first four picks in the really class are all hurt, including Jeremiah Love. After his 14th touch of the preseason, Besantis got 70 when he's competing to start. - Rock, please. - Make it make sense. Make it make sense. I don't like it, I can't, I can't. - Horrible. - All right, let's take a break. I'm back, I'm gonna hit Austin with some takes that I'm chewing on, and he's either gonna talk, talk me into them, or talk me out of them. All right, we're back here on the ringer NFL show. All right, so here's the idea, Austin. It's almost prediction time, right? We're gonna all go on the record in the next couple of weeks here. It's gonna, who's gonna win the Super Bowl? Here's who the surprise team's gonna be. Here's who's gonna make the playoffs. I have three takes that I'm considering, and all my little documents and spreadsheets over here. I'm like, I think I think these things, but I'm not totally sure. I'm gonna present you with the cases, and you're gonna help me either push me over the top and say, "Shield, go with that." As your friend, as your trusted confidant, I want you to look good. I don't want you to get all takes exposed. You're gonna be good with this one. Or, yes, a shield, don't do that. I'm telling you, like you're gonna regret this in December. I've got three of them, are you ready? Yes, okay, first one. The Minnesota Vikings are a playoff team. That is my first one. I'm not telling you, these are all like the craziest boldest predictions, but I don't think most people are picking the Vikings to make the playoffs. I think that I'm gonna have them at 10 and 7, and a wild card team. And here's the case. Kyler Murray, when you're watching him, feels like the most high variance quarterback in the NFL. However, if you look at it statistically, he pretty much ends up in the same place after every season. He's ended up between 12th and 21st every single year. If you look at EPA for play, he's played football. So it's like, he's most likely going to give them mediocre quarterback play. And I know we're not hanging banners for mediocre quarterback play, but when you look at what they had last year, they might hang a banner for mediocre quarterback play, 'cause they had bottom five quarterback play in the NFL with the guys they started last year. So on the offensive side of the ball, I think they can reach a level of competence and mediocrity, and on the defensive side of the ball, I'm just putting my faith in Brian Flores, I'm adding those things up, above average defense, average to above average offense, and I think they can get to 10 wins. And I feel like they're getting slept on in the NFC North Austin, 'cause they are plus five, 10 to win the division. And I actually don't think there's a huge gap between them and some of these other teams. Sorry, where are you on this? - I think it's something I can entertain for a second, but I think where I struggle is, even if Kyla Murray, who I think is gonna win the job and unless it gets hurt, will play over Jay-Jim McCarthy every game, just based off of what we saw in the preseason, but also what we saw last year, and knowing what Kyla Murray, what problems Kyla Murray can solve when the offense doesn't have an easy win versus Jay-Jim McCarthy can barely even hit the easy wins versus create outside of that. But the problem with Murray is, even if it nets out to be like average, or even slightly above average, starter average GPA, I still think the week-to-week experience with Kyla is so roller coaster, it's not first half of the season, second half of the season, stuff we saw with, the cliff, like Cliff Kingsbury falling off the cliff, from the second half of the season. So I've been calling the Vikings. High-fits kind of helped me, Danny High-fits, the Rainier Fantasy football show, helped me kind of put this together, but I'm gonna call them the pump and dump Vikings in that I think that the Vikings are gonna start the season pretty warm, and you're gonna see some of the stuff that you're seeing where, oh, Kyla is competent. Oh, the offensive line is kind of good. That is Justin Jefferson, TJ Hocketson. I thought Aaron Jones looked pretty spry in the preseason, just a couple of touches that he had, and then defensively, you have one of the best defensive play colors in the game. Like, I think Brian Flores is that good, and you're gonna get these just easy, easy turnovers, short drives on the other side of the ball, when you go against bad quarterbacks 'cause Flores just choose them up, like we saw with Dart and the Giants even in that preseason game. So I like the Vikings a lot like week-to-week, but I feel like the volatility with Murray and the injuries in the second half of the season, and then also the volatility, even with the defense, right? I think he's the best week-to-week game play collar, but there are better offenses, better defenses that have seen the Flores stick before, and good quarterbacks can still choose them up. Their secondary still isn't that good. So, I don't know, I think I'm afraid. - You're telling me to chew on it. - Or sleep on. - I just don't think I'm rushing to place any season-long positive bet on the Vikings right now. I feel like there's still so many questions. Like, if you're bullish on Minnesota, bet them week one, like bet them week two, look at their, look at their, you know, their spreads in that area, or if you're like thinking this offense is just gonna be better, maybe you're a fantasy buyer of Jefferson above value, Aaron Jones above value, but I don't know, season-long bet on the fucking Vikings. I think my bullish take is that the Vikings fans are gonna turn on Kevin O'Connell at some point. In the same way that Dolphins fans, like, maybe needed to move on from Mike McDaniel, even if he is this, you know, arguably best offense play collar in the game, because I think there is gonna get to a point where, I think Kevin O'Connell did a really good job getting his name off of the Sam Darnold decision, [BLANK_AUDIO] to go with JJ and that's why Quessie Adolfi Menza doesn't have a job anymore. They're GM, but you go through this season and it doesn't look good at all with Murray. It doesn't look good again with McCarthy and they still have all these weapons and a good offensive line. It's like, okay, I guess we'll give Kevin O'Connell another chance, but his floor is going to be there next year. I don't know. Don't you think it would be justified, Austin? To turn down? I mean, it's interesting. Yeah. There are coaches who, if you put them in this situation with this talent on offense and you told them Brian Flores, if they're DC, I do believe that that's, you know, shanning hand, McVeigh, we could go through whoever you think the best coach is in there. I do believe that those guys would be able to get this team to the playoffs. So I do think in a way, it's kind of a fun, rough random on his KOC, actually that guy, because if you look at it, their offense has never finished about 14th. I forget his DVOA or EPA per play. His best move has been hiring and being able to work with Brian Flores and staying out of his way. That's kind of crazy. Honestly, yeah. And then you want to give him credit for that Sam Donald season. I mean, fuck, it could be I took him the whole way. Like, right. Sam Donald, Sam Donald looked like garbage in big games against good defenses in Minnesota and everyone blamed on Sam Donald, because that's all we knew of him before. But like, should we look at KOC for a second, just to see how it feels like is Cliff O'Connell anything? Because Kyla Murray is back. I'm interested to see if he can really, really do it because, you know, I think we get, especially if you're hot in this league, you get, you get quick to be like this guy's a quarterback. You see it with Stofansky, you see it with O'Connell, you see it with Kingsbury. You know, I think it's a question between the La Flores right now is Mike Laflore-Hotter is, is, is, uh, uh, is the fantasy show doing that? Are they just doing quarterbacks? Are they safe? Next year. Next year. Next year. Next year. Next year. Okay. I think DC is to get in the mix. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Okay. Listen, you helped me as my friend talking me out of that. I'm going to, I don't know that the pump and dump Vikings to you in high fits. I don't know that it's going to stay. Maybe table that one and, you know, brainstorm a little bit, but maybe I've been wrong before. You know, I've been wrong about the fight. That's right. Someone's got to try something. All right. Next one, Austin, the lion, we're staying in the NFC North. The lions are a super bowl sleeper in the NFC. So here's the thought. Everybody who doesn't care about content and just wants to, they're going to pick the rams in the seahawks to come out of the NFC and I don't blame you. They are the heavy favorites in the NFC to go to the Super Bowl. But when you're in content, what you got to do, you got to look beyond the big favorites and say, all right, who from this next group, from the rest of them? Might I actually pick? And I keep coming back to Detroit, but I also can't totally get there with Detroit. So here's the case. Last year, they're nine and eight. And that was like the year from hell. They had the second most injured team in the NFL, according to adjusted games lost. And by the way, the advanced stats really liked the lions last year. Again, do you hang the banner for that? I mean, I would, if I were an owner, but they're probably not going to do that. But they were third in DVOA behind only the seahawks and the rams. There were one of only two teams to finish top 10 offense, top 10 defense, top 10 special teams. So they got some bad luck last year. They weren't really as bad as nine and eight. So I look at that and I look at this year and I say, you know what, they faced the second easiest schedule in the NFL. If you go by Super Bowl odds, their offense still has a lot of talent. They're 45 and 23 under Dan Campbell. I have questions about their defense, but the offense is reliable, easy schedule. I think they can win a lot of games. I think they can win the NFC North. And maybe they are the biggest challenger to the rams in the seahawks, Austin. What do you think? I'm all the way in. I'm a big lion. All the way in. I'm a big lion's buyer. Okay. I have some small capital on 11 plus wins for the lions. I think they're a dark horse to win the NFC. I think they're a dark horse mostly because I'm really just buying the offense again. Even with the Cade Maze injury, they signed Cade Maze Center from Carolina, Inferienci, gave them a nice deal and they've been trying to figure out this Frank Ragnall whole Hall of Fame Center that they tried to bring back last year and then they find out he had like a torn something and couldn't actually play, but like they brought in Cade Maze. He's hurt. They're going to now bring in juice Scruggs who they traded for from Houston to start at center, which I think is interesting because they have three guys before the Maze injury that have over a thousand snaps played on their bench along the offensive line in Ben Barch, juice Scruggs, and Larry Borum. So they were kind of surprisingly fit. I feel like for this injury and they understand how important it is, bringing in Blake Rogers the Clemson offensive tackle in the first round. I think Penace will move in the left. It's going to work like a dream. I think overall when you look at bringing in Drew Petsing, he's someone who's experimented in the past with six offensive linemen. The new meta is, what if I had 12 personnel? Ooh, what if I did 13? Three tight ends. Well, they're bringing on these Jackson Haas, you know, Nick Bedaker types or Sam Roush types because they're better blockers that can kind of catch. What if you have an offensive line that's kind of interestingly, you know, and G. Troy has played with this before with Dan Skipper, you'll fit to bring in a six offensive line and try some of this stuff out. I think they're an interesting one there and with Gibbs and then wanting to give him like, you know, a thousand carries this year. His backup, Pacheco has already hurt. I'm interested in their run game. You know, when you look at last year, why they're often struggled. I think some of it was the offensive line, but it also was John Morton, right? Weeks one through nine. This was one of the worst teams in the NFL at creating explosive runs on the ground. I think it was bottom five and explosive run rate. When John Morton got let go and Dan Campbell took over play calling, a guy who's not an offensive play caller, by the way, they immediately shot back up to top five. So there are easy buttons as Dan Campbell knows to press in this offense to get explosives on the ground. Some of that's competition. Some of that gives it to being healthy, but I like the lines offensive line, even with the Kade May's injury. I love Gibbs, obviously. I think Gough, when protected, which I think I'm assuming here is really good. I think Petsing is an ad to what they had with Dan Campbell over last year. And then defensively, that's where things start to fall off, because Brian Branch, Brian Branch and Kirby Joseph, they're two, you know, projected starters at CT, are still on the pup, recovering from injuries. That worries me. They cut Terry on Arnold after the arrest of the, you know, on the eight felonies. So this secondary kind of beat up, right? No Terry on Arnold, no Kirby Joseph, no Brian Branch. I could see their defense in the secondary, specifically struggling, but I'm buying this offense and I'm buying kind of Dan Campbell and Petsing overall. I think this is the right kind of dark horse bet in a loaded NFC whenever one wants to bet the Rams to win the Super Bowl. Yeah. We're like in the exact same place on this. I'm with you on Campbell, I'm with the reliability of this offense. I mean, you know, they've had different, they obviously had Ben Johnson. And then like you said, they tried John Morton last year. It doesn't work out. If you look at it, I think the last four years, they've been, you know, top eight in offense by any metric, you look at it and again, that's been with sort of different talent, different coordinators in there. The defensive part scares me. If you're listening to this and you're like, okay, you guys are just going to gloss over the fact that they're two starting safeties, by the way, who are two of their best defensive players. They have no idea what they're going to get from them this season. That's what's really holding me back because I don't think their defense was terrible last year. I think it got worse in the second half and it got exposed at times. Overall, I don't think it was terrible. I was actually surprised looking at some of the pressure and sack numbers because in my head, I'm going, they have eight in Hutchinson and nothing else. But if you look at it, they were seventh in pressure, eight, sixth in sack rate. He said, man, we talked about Max Crosby in the first segment. If they traded for Max Crosby, I think I would just be going all in and being like, go win with the past. It's the exact team to do it. He's a mission guy. They should be a team. That's the time, man. They have an easy schedule. They should be, they should be like, you could just say it. It makes a ton of sense. Yeah. And it does right by Crosby, which they tried to do. And like I said before, the plan is not 2026, the plan is 2027. That's when we're going to get Fernando really unleashed. Yeah. Listen, their defense could be horrible, and this looks stupid, but I do feel good about a lot of aspects of this football team. And I think they're going to bounce back in a major way. I like them to win the NFC North. And Austin is with me on that one. All right. Last one here. Austin. The Bengals are going to win the AFC North. Okay. So they are plus 184 to win the AFC North. Ravens are minus 112. So Ravens are the favorite. I think it's kind of a coin flip between these two teams to win the AFC North. I think it's closer than those odds indicate. The big thing I'm looking at here is when Joe boroughs healthy, and I know that's a big if, but listen, we don't know what quarterback's going to be healthy. We could say that about so many of these different quarterbacks. What he's healthy, their offense is good. That's just, it was that way last year when he was on the field. It was that way in 2024. It was that way in 2022. I don't know if to bore you with all the numbers unless you want some proof. But they've been top eight, all those seasons when Joe borough has been healthy. He still has jamar chase. He still has T Higgins career low, sac rate last year, Austin for Joe borough. So the offensive line, it's not great, but it might be good enough. And the question once again comes down to the defense and did they do enough not to get them to a top 10 defense, but to get them to like the 25th best defense with guys like Dexter Lawrence and Boyet Mafe and Brian Cuck and maybe corner DJ Turner builds on a strong year from last year. They also have a very easy schedule, 30 easiest schedule in the NFL Austin. So I fall for the Bengals almost every summer. Some of our other friends here at the ringer will talk, try to talk me out of it or tell Michelle it's happening again. You got to check yourself. Are you going to tell me that this year or are you with me on the Cincinnati Bengals? I can't ride with you. I'm sorry. I can't do it. I don't dare you. I think on paper, the on paper Bengals are maybe everyone's favorite team in the league. I'm out because I think that the Zack Taylor of it all needs to come to roost. And he's kind of like hot and cold on how much he should play a starter in the preseason because his September record is so loudly awful. And when you go back and watch the Bengals against Detroit's backups, they're starting offense. Nice burrow throws, but I saw another offensive line with some or some worries and, you know, Zach Taylor on 3rd and 15 calling the screen and kind of hanging it up. Like it felt like we were already in mid season form with this offense, you know, trying to kind of just go, what, like I think Zach Taylor's biggest problem is he kind of just does whatever Joe Barrow wants, right? And like, how's going to bring up this stat at the end of the show? But in the preseason so far, the league average for under-center percentage is 44%. The league has not averaged 44% under-center for any season since 2012. When Adrian Peterson won MVP, it is a completely different game if we're no longer in 11 personnel all the time and we're in the shotgun. It's a completely different game when we don't only need passing explosives 'cause the defense haven't caught up yet and linebackers are still fat and slow and safety's aren't running too high yet. 'Cause the league has changed. Mike McDonald has changed it. My homes has changed it. And if I know they're trying to get under-center more and the Bengals under-center percentage is higher, but like if they're running, they run into friction with this offense and let's look at the start of the season. We got Bucks at home, interesting. And then you gotta go on the road to Houston. Then you got Pittsburgh. Then you have the Jaguars at home. Like four tough games to start and if they get out of a sloppy start, I don't think it's gonna be the offense blaming Borough. It's gonna be the offense blaming Zack Taylor and I think he's the sneaky bet for first coach fired. And Joe Borough's end is gonna get into his 30s now. Like are you gonna waste Joe Borough's entire career on Zack Taylor when it's very clear to me and I feel like other people who watch the offense that it's stale and behind and two catered to Borough in that state. - Okay, but it's good every year. - I mean, I can't always hear everybody's upset with that. - It's good because of Borough. - It's not because of Borough. - Okay, but Borough wants to play that way. So it's easier for you to say Zack Taylor doesn't push back on Borough. If I'm Zack Taylor, I am connected to Joe Borough. Joe Borough doesn't like me. I'm out the door in 24 hours. And by the way, we're not losing 'cause we're not going under-center. Obviously, I agree with you. If they brought in a coach, it's like Aaron Rogers with Matt LaFlor. If he got with a coach who could convince him, all right, Aaron, I know you don't like to do this under-center play-action. Let me show you why it works. Can we come up with some hybrid and it wins to MVP's. I agree with you. That conversation would be great. And Joe Borough could benefit from it. At the same time, that's not why they're losing. They're losing because their defense has been the worst in the NFL some of these years. - But that's because they missed out on Dicks. - It takes, in my opinion, like Miles Murphy hasn't been out for an hour. - Yeah, I agree. - Zack Taylor's already hurt. - Totally. - But that's not because they're not going under-center. But if I told every bangle stand right now, that next year your head coach is going to be Mike McDaniel. And but you had to fire Zack Taylor right now. I don't even think they'd let me finish the cent. I don't think they'd let me finish the cent. - That's true. - Because they know that the ceiling on this offense is tapped and if they run into any friction at all, oh no, an offensive line injury. Oh no, a burrow injury. Oh no, one of the skill players gets hurt. I don't think I trust Zack Taylor or even Borough necessarily to be able to solve the necessary problems on offense for this to work. And if they are, after this year, still going to be looking back way deep at 2021, which would be five years ago at the successes that they had, while Joe Borough is going to go into his thirties, when you age differently, you think differently, you've seen that with Borough already. Like I really do not think since Daddy is going into 2020, seven with Zack Taylor and that bet is on, this offense not looking good out of the gate and people getting frustrated in the blame game, I think going around early, like we've seen before. And I know it's even year and I know the guys are healthy on paper, but I would be rather betting them week to week when I know every single player's healthy than actually thinking about them season long because I think eventually that there's gonna be enough concern here and we've seen it with the bangles before, right? They held on to Marvin Lewis way too long. They don't like firing coaches. I think they've held on to Zack Taylor too long. And this year, if there's gonna be any year that it needs to happen, I think it's this one, it's partly wishful thinking because I want Borough to play with a different offensive play color. I'm sorry, like I think he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league with his best friend at wide receiver and one of the best number two receivers in the league. Gassicki, who we wanted, our first round tackle in Amarice Mims. Like, like, what else do you need? Like, it's clear what the limitation of this offense is. And like, we just want to go into another season doing the same thing. It feels like insanity. - I still feel like if I were Zack Taylor's agent, I would be like, all right, you're ripping me for all those picks that they missed on defensively. Look at the product we put up. I think Mike Sandow and his quarterback tears had some stat about like, when the bangles score 30 with Borough, what their record is compared to every other team in the NFL. And it's by far the worst in the NFL. So if I'm Zack Taylor, I'm like, I'm trying to appease my quarterback. The offense is working and our defense is terrible because the front office has missed on a bunch of picks. I actually think that's a fair defense. Now, having said that, I also agree with you that you could be obviously, you could upgrade from Zack Taylor and it would be a better situation. But are the bangles going to be willing to do that? They feel very high variance to me. I think you laid out kind of the worst case scenario where it just doesn't happen. Defense thinks again, maybe the offense isn't as good as I think it's going to be. And Zack Taylor's out of there. I do think there's a scenario where they're legit Super Bowl contenders. If Dexter Lawrence looks like the guy we saw two years ago, if some of these picks that have or the younger players that are like, all right, Daxhill, DJ Turner, can you get something out of these guys? Can you figure out your personnel a little bit better? Can you create some turnovers? A lot of times, defense statistics are about not how good the defense is played. But what quarterbacks did you actually face? Like the Patriots last year, they faced seven quarterbacks who are literally not starters in the NFL this year. Last year, like, yeah, your stats are going to look better when you have that, and the Bengals on paper have the 30siest schedule in the NFL. So, you know what? I appreciate the feedback. I still think they might win 10, 11 games. I have them in the Ravens very even where I'm going to have one of them both in the playoffs. I feel good about that. I think I'm going to have both of them in the playoffs. I just don't know who I'm going to have winning the division. I think betting odds price in that the most likely outcome is that the Bengals, because they're healthy right now, are pretty good because the offense is solved and they added pieces on defense. Black sales banged up, Bryan Cokes banged up, but maybe they're ready to start week one. I'm, I think, saying this, because I'm rooting for them to have a year from hell, because I think we need to get rid of Zack Taylor. I think another year where even if the offense looks banana land, like it did a couple of years ago, but they don't make a run in the playoffs, I'm going to be sitting here again frustrated while we're still looking at Zack Taylor as the head coach. You know how ESPN, every year, asks all those executives to rank, you know, the best players? I'd like to see that same interview for coaches, because I don't think Zack Taylor makes the top 10. He might not make the honorable mentions. Like, I really don't think so. And like, if you're going to tell me, not even a top 10, maybe French top 14 coach in the NFL, who's moved on from Blue and Arumo, who was the hero of that Super Bowl run somehow. And now on his next defense coordinator, who I bet he's scapes go, scapegoats, if the defense doesn't work out well again. Like, I just don't get it. Like, you're going to, you're going to tell me that one of the best quarterbacks in the league is going to play his entire career with a coach that the consensus would be he's not even a top 12, top 14 coach in the NFL. That feels like a mistake. Like, that feels like a miss. That feels like the decision, every other team in this division made, Browns move on from Stavansky. Ravens move on from Harbaugh. Tom and the Steelers part ways. The fact that Zach Taylor's the last coach in this division is nonsensical to me. It doesn't make sense. And coaching staffs do not have, like, you don't have a salary cap for what you can spend on the coaching staff. Like, I was just picturing this team, Austin. What if Brian Flores with their defensive coordinator? Yeah, it's just like, we would be probably having a completely different conversation. So there's a lot of blame to go around in Cincinnati if things go poorly. I think you're right that they're feeling the heat here, with this score of borough, chase, and Higgins and the way it started that if things don't go well, it doesn't feel like they can just have a 8998 season and run it back next season. Now, maybe we're wrong about that and we're having a conversation next summer. I know they ran it back, but I don't think that's the case. All right, that was fun. Those are the takes I'm chewing on. Listen, we got a lot more pods between now and week one. So I will give you my official. Here's where I landed at some point here, but thank you to Austin for talking me through some of those potential takes. Sorry, thanks to Austin Gale. Thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing. Stepin of Sanchez on video and additional production to provision by Connor Nevin's in Arjuna. Ram Gopal, I'm Shilka Padia. We will talk to you next time on the ringer NFL show. 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas, Darcasino or 18 plus and present in DC Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-MyReset, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here, visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope N-Y or text hope N-Y in New York for Louisiana, call 1-877-770-78677.