Prem season predictions & Edwards joins England

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Learn more at Geico.com. Five lives rugby union weekly. Right, that's Paddy's on Honeymoon because it was his wedding on Friday. So we're at the cabbage patch today. Lovely sound. Lovely to do, wasn't it, Friday? What a great do Friday. One not to miss. Great to see everyone outside the pod environment. Brilliant. A very happy evening, celebrating one of our own. It was magical, wasn't it? It's almost there, Hixie was there. You, me, Hugo, Hugo. Why, why are you being like this? I just wondered why you weren't there. You know why I wasn't there. What did you have? I think he's made me a light three times there. Oh, the badger. You can't get too close to a badger, mate. No, he can't. The full of all sorts. So he needs to be shot. I thought that he was on Monday, last Monday for the pod. He's fine. I saw you choose day. And you, apparently, is my fault that I made you know? And you know where he's shot again today. He sits far away from me every time. Okay. I'm normally the middle guy. So I always say to you. I think you need to look at your defenses while you're getting ill and down a years. And maybe more fruit and veg, more exercise, some more eggs, maybe just build up your fiber. Yeah, so I need to prep when I'm coming in to contact with you. Basically, I'll just try and live a hell. I'm just worried about your lifestyle. Are you having a bit? That's matter-to-day. I just worry about your lifestyle, actually. Are you just looking after your body like this? What shit egg intake these days? I don't feel comfortable disclosing that in relation. Can I tell you what happened? Well, yeah, this is an intro, so make it quick. So I was driving home Thursday afternoon. I'd seen Christophe Christophe choose them morning. And it just overcame me from nowhere. I was sweat hot sweats. I ended up in a field. It's not for all I say I felt horrific. And all I could think about was Christophe. So you'd believe in the budget? Yeah, I was being sick in a field. You got a budget? Got home, got in the house on hands and knees. So that's why you weren't there on Friday night. We had a great time. Yeah, congrats to Paddy. Congrats to Paddy. But do you need to work in your defenses? Congrats, Paddy. Speaking of defenses, the big news out the Red Rose is huge. It is also the start of the domestic season. It feels like we've been building up for this for a while. So let's try and start. Sunshine-ing. Some are officially over as of last weekend. Season starts this weekend. Loads together. Loads to talk about with Danny Care, with Chris Ashton, and Chris Jones on rugby and weekly. Rugby Union Weekly from BBC Sport and BBC Radio 5 Live. Friday night was great. It was amazing to be a part of it. Amazing to be invited. It was the only thing we were invited to. We weren't invited to the Stagdo or the official Sarah only were we, but we got the reception. Beautiful place in London, Friday night. Paddy, I've never seen him like it. We're now, I've known Paddy for nine years. You go way more back than that, but so smitten. But it was so nice to be around it. He just kept snogging his misses. And I know, like, it's his wedding day, which is fine. But there's a room full of what, 50, 60 people. And he just kept going, Kate, come here. He just kept snogging it, which it was great. It was lovely to see. But we room full of love, Buncie, as MC, who obviously-- That's, I mean, that's pulling in Buncie as an MC. You know, when everyone's got married, they have their mate or their family member as MC, like to steal your Bunce from the iconic voices in boxing, just working the room. Oh, it was great. But yeah, I was like, you were missed, Ashton. You were missed, it would have been great. Loads to get at. And actually, just to say, don't feel left out, we've been doing a lot ahead of the start of this season. So just give us-- for those who haven't heard it, maybe, just checking back in with the pod as the season gets underway. Some of the big name guests we've had on, rubbing the weekly, the last few weeks. Just a few names. Lurie Summit, Fin Smith. Fin Smith, Jack van Portfleet. For Jack van Portfleet. We've had Fin Russell, haven't we? Oh, we did, yeah. And Marrow. And Finn Baxter, and Courtney Laws, and Nikki Smith, and Jack Morgan. You'd given the viewers and the listeners all that for a podcast. For nothing. Wow. For nothing. No, with-- I love the game. Wow. But there's been so much good stuff. And if you haven't heard some of our previews, they're all out on the rubbing weekly feed. Do you have a favourite in all of them? It was a best-- there was a favourite interview that we've done. Good question. David Jenkins, as well. He was very good. Finn Baxter's lovely lad, isn't he? Such a lovely lad. You just-- there's nothing not to like-- Almost too nice. He could do like a mum thing we're going to read. He wouldn't see what just get away, we're going to read. Just to go and play like low level rugby league for-- What's the world's far off film when he turns into-- he's got that gangster snake, something. Yeah. You know, he's a really nice guy, and then he's not an alter ego. Yeah, you do, yeah. That's what I've been back for. But he's still tough. You can't play loose set for your country without being tough, could you? He still looks 12, like he hasn't aged a day since he was 12. And I think just quietly, he might be one of England's most important players in the next 12 months. Because with that, with Genji having to do everything, and there's other loose says that came into help, but Genji played predominantly all the minutes. But to have Finn back to there, one of the best scrimmages around, and he's tough, and he knows the game, and his hands are great, it can really complement what Ellis springs to that England team. So it's the start of the season. And we've got this really cool thing. Prem Rugby, I've conducted-- they do it in the NBA. I didn't know about this, but apparently it's been going in the NBA for ages. With all the head coaches, they get them to do their predictions, all anonymous. But we've got the results of this. So all the dear ones from the 10-prem clubs have written down who they think is going to win the league, who they think is going to be runner-up, who they think is going to be player of the season, they think is going to be the best signing of the season. If it's anonymous, they don't just do the vote for themselves. But they clearly don't. Because otherwise, you'd have 10% of the votes for every club, but they don't, do they? That's the whole point. It doesn't want to get it out, so that the-- whatever, Lester Boss said that they'll not win the league, unless the fans go, whoa! So that's why it's got to be kept anonymous. But it clearly hasn't worked out that way, because we've got 70% of the airwars picking one team to win the league. Seven out of the 10 have gone for one team. We'll reveal all shortly in the episode. But that's cool, isn't it? That is cool. I mean, I've never heard of that before. And it is great to get that insight. Obviously, you can never know who said who. Interesting to see if Harlequin's get any votes. And if not, who knows that Harlequin's D-O-R voted for? It's not like Whip, but it is cool to see that. Another big episode we had in the build-ups this season, RFU Performance Director Conor O'Shea. And talking of the RFU, big bit of business. We're just here at the Cabbage Patch, the world famous Cabbage Patch, down the road from Twickenham. And after how many years would you say, guys? I think he was offered the England Saxons job in 2007. And then he went to Wales. That end of that year started the '08 Six Nations. He was offered the Saxons. He was offered the Saxons job post-war. What longs are? No, but whether there would have been a kind of do the Saxons and then the fawness of time go into the senior set up. But he was offered Saxons and then Warren Gatlin from had got the Wales job after that '07 World Cup. Old mate from Walsh, Sean Edwards, rest his history. So I've given the game away. It's out there now. Sean Edwards is coming in to coach the Red Roses on a short-term basis for the rest of the WXV. So after all these years, he will be pulling on an England tracksuit. It's probably not going to be the place that anyone thought he would go into. But is there a reason why he's going in there? You think there are a few things that will come out with just dot the eyes and cross the tees with a bit more detail about the role and where exactly he'll be working and more area. But predominantly defence, as it often has been or more often than it has been with Sean Edwards, Danny. And yeah, wow, well, that's a out of nowhere. We know he's left France now and he's officially all-sorted, compensation done. And Sean Edwards back on the market. And this is his first step. So I mean, he's in Red Roses colours. I mean, what an unbelievable addition to an already incredibly high-performing environment to get one of the best defence coaches reunion. and rugby league has ever seen, in short Edwards, the wisdom, the experience, the knowledge, the mentoring that he can give to those Red Roses is going to be frightening, and it's scary really how much better he could potentially still make the very best team in the world and absolute history makers. Yeah, I think those Red Roses are incredibly fortunate they're going to get to work with someone like him as alongside a John Mitchell. You know, it can only help and add to that again. But interesting he's coming in just after the streak is over to an extent. I know they've not been beaten, but they're over. Well, their winning streak is over, literally. Yeah, but it's not. That's not been classes. It's always classes and on being. Yeah, but I've called it a winning streak for the purpose of the streak being over, I'm still not able to take it in draw, did he? No, no Canada, a Brock Lesnar. So they're still drawing wrestling. That's why you can. You can. You can't go to the American sport, you can't. They don't have draws. No, I've seen double count outs, man. What if you were both going for money in the bank? That doesn't change. Yeah, if you both grabbed the ladder, money in the bank start at the same time. And do you remember when they both they'll fight again the week? They're true. I think it's sure Ned was like, well, when the feet touched for all the same time in the rumble, they crack on to get a winner. So you're right. The unbeaten streak is not over, but the winning streak is. Can we agree on that? There are some coaches that just don't like being out of work, do they? They just love to coach. They don't want to sit on the route like Sean could easily go, yeah, that's, that's me. I'm going to take a bit of time, but they don't, do they? He's like, right, words are negative. Take a bit of time to refresh your mind. I need to get in some word to get coaching just to continue being in it. I get why? If you want to coach, so you need to be in it, doing anything. Because Ed, Ed is the one who has six of me used to be everywhere of me. Yeah, just coaching all the time. That looks like Sean's the same. And consultants to everyone, weren't he? Yeah, I mean, there's maybe a bit of technicalities there with Eddie, but yeah, there was definitely a few. You get that before managers, don't you? You get someone like Roy Hodgeson who's gone back in a Bristol city at the age of what like late 78. Just a little bit. Some are happy just going to Portugal to play golf and doing some media. Others are like, no, we need to and Edwards is clearly the moment that the France stuff was all sorted. He's getting back in and as I was saying, Danny, it's a, it's not like you look at the Canada game. We always got nothing. There's, there's work on's there, which is great for the England women's side and for Edwards. He's not coming into a team that's that's one 15-0 their first two games of the, the WXV. There is, there is stuff that he could look out from that Canada game going. England was second best in those areas. Yeah, I think obviously Sean loves working. He loves his job. Whether he's a work a holic or not, but he wants to be in. I think rugby changes and evolve so quickly that I think if you are, if you are too long out of it, the game can quickly pass you by. So, and it's different for him. He's going to be, it's going to be different coaching, coaching the women than in what he's used to. Obviously he's been in France for a few years. But the game, he's going to cattle on with his notebook and just sitting there standing. Yeah. So he loves it. He obviously loves it, lives and breathes it, which is why he is one of the very best. But there's still, obviously, the red roses are by far the number one at the minute. But I was there at Sandy Park on the weekend. Those teams coming for them, they really are. And you could feel that that the Canadians were desperate, desperate to get one back. They talked about it in the week. So if you're good, you're talking about having sleepless nights since the final and they counting down the days to the face. England, they didn't manage to beat them, but they managed to get a draw. And then there's now chaps. Should they have stayed? Should they have kept playing? Coach Kevin Ruay came out with a call. Get the ball off. Take the draw. What do you reckon, guys? Having been there, I can understand it because the Canadians were really struggling to get out of their 22. England's defence was swamping them. And the Canadians kicking game, Tessier X-12 was the one that was exiting everything. So they're passing the ball back 10 or 15 metres every time. So then, because the apps doesn't kick from 9. Apps doesn't kick from 9. So they relied heavily on throwing it back to one of their backs to then escape. And they were so deep in their own half that they couldn't physically get out. I think if they'd have had a penalty at the end, it's a different story because then you go, right, let's try and kick it to halfway, maybe launch an attack. But their scrum was creaking a little bit. Their forwards had put in an unbelievable shift. The tight-ed men in score two tries. She was still on in the 80th minute. So you can't then ask her to scrum for a penalty when she's exhausted. So I think it was the right decision. They didn't end the winning street. Well, they did end the winning street, but they didn't get the win they wanted, but they've still got two games in this trilogy of games that they've got to try and beat them. And they shook England, I think. They did. And they looked powerful. They looked dangerous physically. Some of their forwards energy-wise. They dove in with a hooker was everywhere. My override in feeling from being there was there was more on it for the Canadians than the Red Roses. There's not even a trophy for the to play for in this series, which I don't really understand. So for England, you're almost just there to be shot out. All of hotel for everyone. It's hard to like, yes, it's an international, but it's a friendly. If there's nothing on it, it's hard for I think it's hard mentally. I'm not speaking of behalf of the girls here. But if I was in their shoes, it's hard to just give teams. Opportunity, after opportunity, after opportunity to come and beat you to come and have a crime there. There's kind of evidence. And that sport is littered with those examples. You can rule them off, can't you? Yeah. So I think you can forgive the girls, probably not playing the 10 out of 10 performance. Next week could be different over the road here, back at Allianz. So black first. Edward's in camp. Imagine the odd she got you to get five years ago on those two being coaches of women. John Mitch and Sean Edwards. Together. That shows the attraction the women's games go. I remember when Edward's got the England men's job in 2018, because Paul Gus started left to get a quiz. Eddie brought in John Mitch. I remember at the time, even though he would have been with Wales, I remember at the time Sean Edwards making a comment like, oh, you know, if Eddie Jones thinks John Mitch was a better defense coach than me, I think Sean Edwards would have loved to have been at least asked. And then that leaves the conversation with Wales, because we know how much he would have loved to got into the England set up. But he's in the in the Red Rose set up now. It's going to be dead interesting to see how it all pans out, because it's a different challenge, isn't it? Coaching women. John Mitch was had to had to really adapt from what he would have been when he coached you guys, for example. Yeah, it's a different challenge. You got to build some relationships with some of these girls that were never have worked with you before. Understand that there are differences between coaching men and coaching women. Try and work out what makes them tick and get the best out of them. But I think Sean will be absolutely fine. I think they'll love him. I think they'll want to play for him. And I think he'll only add, I'm gutted. I never got a chance to be coached by Sean. When you hear the stories from the Welsh lads or who's with the Lions, he sounds like a bloke that you would even I would try and defend for. And just finally, if we move on to see some predictions actually, do you understand that Canadian mindset of draw away from home, amazing to stop the winning streak and then really go for a win back in North America in the coming weeks? Or do you have to think you don't get many shots to take down the Red Rose has given their 40 matches on beaten. When you even get a sniff, I know you've got to go from 70 metres. They might not get another one like that. Where are you? It's context of the game isn't it? Unfortunately, there's a bit, you know, when they do poker hands before you see the river, they got a percentage on whether you're going to win or not. That was probably high. Essentially, you're going to lose the game at some point. So just kick it off a tip that draw, I think. Yeah, it's a draw is better than a loss because they have made a dent. But yeah, they're the only team that are pushing in and close at the minute. So in Canada, I think it's going to be different. Yeah, and you see the next Saturday, we've got commentary of that on five live Red Rose against Black Furns. We repeated the 2022 World Cup final again. That was in Auckland. Red Rose's Black Furns is this Saturday full commentary, full commentary on five live. Sarah's there with Katie D.M. And Topsy as well, I'm actually presenting our coverage. So it's a full rugby and weekly. What's up there? Kick off a three. So you're unusual? We've got a prem starting at three on Saturday. Yeah, this is often the way in the sport, isn't it? Okay. Seems to be going to productive to have a direct clash. Yeah, we are working on a prem game. It looks like same time. Yeah, that feels that they could be a staker. They've been great at like a 7/8 clock kick off at Alianz Stadium, wouldn't it? Saturday night. Yes, although I'd dare say, well, not dare say, I know that you would say it'd be better of having the prem game in the evening. And the Red Rose's game in the afternoon given how many keeps the women at a point of difference as well, being a night game, Alianz. No, I know, but having taken my, when she was now four, but I took my two-year-old. I'll be able to take it, okay? And I'm not going to be able to take a 7/8 clock. Yeah, so 50,000 I think, expected. Yeah, great. So England is in the three. X to Gloucester is a five-poss three. We'll be on that. So you've got a five-minute, well you've got five-minute winner. And then cell Bristol's five-thirties, obviously TNT, you know, wonderful TNT, they've staggered the kickoff. But yeah, maybe you could think England is healing could be a one o'clock, couldn't you? Potentially. Yeah, yeah. One o'clock. That'd be nice. Would maybe be best for everyone. Not to be. And then just one more on Edwards, because a lot of England fans for the men's team are going to be thinking, Well, Edwards is now in. He's got his foot in the door at the RFU. And it was always a case of, "Oh, why can't the RFU "and Edwards never come together? "Is there some problem there?" And if there's not a problem and he's coaching England women and that's a short-term gig maybe come longer we'll see, that'll definitely get tongues wagging if things don't go so well or if the England men's team needs some more help somewhere. The fact that he's sort of in now, he's in the door. Is that a thing? Is that. Well, it is a thing for me because previously the issue was like, "Oh, is Edwards and the RFU just something "that will never quite happen?" Okay. Do you know what I mean? Just one of those things like. Or is it something that should have happened 10 years ago? Yeah, and then hasn't. And hasn't, so you think the ship sailed. And maybe the ship has sailed with the men's team. It's not long-term thinking if it's. But they're not going to bring him into coach the Red Rose if they don't think he can offer proper value. They're not going to go, "Oh, he can coach the Red. "He's good enough to coach the Red Rose, "but he's not good enough to coach the men's team." If there is ever an opportunity to coach the men's team now, the fact that he's in and they've started this relationship. There isn't a job for him though, the men's team. No, I know there isn't a job, but we've spoken a lot over the last few weeks about what happens post 2027. Maybe we see how this goes with the Red Rose as now, whether it becomes a long-term thing, etc. It's significant that Sean Edwards and the RFU have come together for the first time. That is significant, and it's great. But England have currently got Richard Wigglesworth in situ. They've got Brian McGuire and Brian Adams as Marley used to call him. Joe Adams, so they've got. No, they've stacked. They don't need another coach in there. No, they don't. It just is still interesting, isn't it? Obviously, when it gets to the World Cup, we all know that depending on results and how well teams do, then there's going to be a lot of coach changes everywhere. What's the harm of bringing him in in the World Cup camp? Well, or in the pre-six nations. If it's job with the Red Rose this short-term. We don't really know what happened with France. Why is the best team in Europe just said, "I'll come and pay you out"? Yeah, we haven't really got on on standing on that, have we? No, no. That's what I get you can do in the women, isn't it? We need to have no reasons why France have let him go. But Edwards's answer would be, well, what had he been in there for six, seven years? Decent shift, one-two-three-six nations. Could just be a closed-up fallout with. Well, it could be anything, but it doesn't have to be. Oh, he's not got it anymore. Could be more right. It could be more right. They need a bit of a fresh. A fresh and up. I mean, all the best coaches in the world get let go, don't they? From stuff. The best man at foot management in the world, you don't. Rare, however, not get sacked as a. As a coach or manager. Maybe there's a world where. I don't know, the men's coaches might look at bringing Sean in as some sort of mentor for these young defence coaches. Like, I imagine. For Wiggy and for McGwiggan to. Be able to feed off someone like his knowledge. The fact that he's in there are a few anyway. Well, I reckon he'll be in there anyway. I'd be walking in there in shock, if. If he's walking, Catalan Dragons. He's going to walk into the men's training. I'd be shocked if they wouldn't. Be asking questions and using all that knowledge to then develop the. These young English coaches in Wiggy. Five lives, rugby union weekly. Okay, start the new season. Days away. And at this stage of the season, pre-season, we're going to be doing our predictions for the year ahead. The ten-primped DORs have all been doing the same. Prem Rugby asked them to fill out an anonymous survey ahead of the season. They've sent us the results. Okay. Who will win the 2026-27 Prem title, Danny Care? Not answering. Not answering, Chris Ashton. I have to say, Sains. So, you've both said Sains. What percentage of the Prem DOR said Sains? It's quite easy because there are ten of them. So, the maths is doable. If they're being honest. If they're being honest and they're not just blind backing themselves, I would say 60-70% of them said Sains, wouldn't you? 70% of the DORs say Northamptons. So, seven out of ten, have back Northamptons and Sains. Let's assume that Phil Dawson's gone for his boys. Which means six out of the other nine. And the only other clubs that got a vote were. Bath. Bath. Sarries. Sarries. And Leicester. Leicester. Leicester. Leicester got one vote. I mean, this is. I want that Leicester, mate. No, but it's a club that have been champions, losing finest or losing semi-finalist. Quite a lot recently. Yeah, they've got to be in the mix here. So, you've seen their team. No, mate. It's nearly a falling season, actually. No, no. They've made 18 signings, right? Apart from Red Bulls, they are by far. They've got to fall into the initial teams. You're like, okay, sale are the ones you talk about when it comes to signings. I don't know for me. Oh, it's sale, I've got to be dainty. Well, sale didn't get a vote from the DORs. No, I know, but they've got to be dainty. Who will Northampton be. You still on the payroll, it's sale. Yeah, not for me. Who will they beat in the finals? You more than like me, it's sale. Hey, don't like me, you know. We were back there the other day for the Courtney into you. Couchs and. Yeah, the dread carpet was rolled out for you. I don't know about that one. Well, it looked that way from where I was. Who will they beat in the final? Bath, 40%, less than 20%, Sarri's 20%. So a theme developing here, most DORs have Northamptons to win, beating Bath in the final, potentially, less than potentially, so it's also receiving votes. Exist the Chiefs and Ashie's beloved sales shop. Can we just. Let's just do our top four. Can we just do a sales shop run through here, a start in team of what they've got? Yeah. Is that all right? If you want, yeah. Nicky Smith. Yeah. Luke Cohen Dickie. Yeah. Tom Francis or Ashie are a poke for Joe. OK, Courtney Laws. Well, there's a Bamba. Ben Bamba. Two curries and eight. Then you never get two curries on the pitch for a long time. Well, the fit, right? No, they are fit. Who's eight? Come back to eight. Scrummuff is. Gus War as Abbey Row. He's come from the Chiefs and Super Rugby. George Ford? Yep. Great. We're missing an eight. They've got a dog mark on her. Dog does still there. A mark on her. Lesoski. Reed. And Carpenter. Carpenter. Yeah. Rowbuck. Yeah, Rowbuck. It's time I flew to, yeah. Most of. We're not even a full international team. Yeah. They're not in my top four. They were about six or seventh for me. Still, I think there's a goal for between the top, top, and the next middling. And the other thing is, no one knows what they're going to do. No one's expecting anything from them. I just think they're going to get a double bar. So you've got Christianza. Christianza. So Christianza plays a lot. Courtney Laws plays six, and they can have courage. That's a big side in Jersey. Wow, they've got a thing. They've also got this THANACA vatoes for Jean from the Drawer, who, according to my sources in the North West, is going to be pretty epic. In Sanderson, say, you've never seen someone hit like this guy does. So, him and Courtney Laws flying around. They've got the person out there. They're going to win it. I think they've 100% got the personnel. The question is, when you bring all those in together, does it just click straight away? You're not talking about season players, aren't we? Yeah, who's gone there? So you're less concerned about their British hit ground running because they're all already going to be steps ahead than we were last year. Yeah, I think that's for me. They've got to be, yeah. So hang on, are we going to do our top fours? No, I'm just going to do the question one, maybe. We've got them back. Do you know the whole sail roster? I'm sorry, I was offended by it. It's missing you where it's supposed to sail. They should be really good. OK, I like the squad. Yeah, I'm still not convinced. OK, OK, what we on next question? I'm just going to do the four playoff teams, according to D.O.R., as Northampton Saints got 90%. So, one D.O.R. has not gotten Northampton at top four. Bath got 90%. So, one D.O.R. doesn't have bath in the top four. Brave, those calls. Exit to 70%. Do you think Exit will be better than last season? They've lost a couple of players. I bought a few in. I'm not sure. Sarri's 70%. They've signed really, really well. They can get the best of Barbary George Martin, Thomas Williams, who the Sarri's players think is going to be the signing of the season. Lester's 60% sailed 20%. So, there's no club outside those six. So, no one has got, has got twins in the top four. No one's got, um. Gloucester. Bristol in the top four. Just white pat alam's proclamation. They're going to win it or can win it. Gloucester or Red Bulls. So, who's your top four? My top four is Bath Saints Sarri's Exit to this year. Saints. Sarasons sail. I don't know about Bath. OK, I'm going to say this. There is not a planet where Bath don't get in the top four. They haven't got the main attributors last season. The main guy. But will he stew its back? I don't know. It's different with that, Thomas Tatoi, but you've lost. They didn't have stew all year. Is that a top trial score for three years in a row? And I think a fit will stew it is. Yeah, but unbelievable play. Have people know where they're going to play? They do the same style of play. Every week, they're not changing it. They've actually gone a bit backwards because Lee Black is not there doing their attack. They're not, they're, you can live with certain aspects of what they're doing. and without a Thomas the Toi, you're in the game. - Yeah, I think they'll be all right. - Okay, I think they'll be all right, but I just wanna be a bit different and not put 'em in top four. - No, that's a shout. I respect it. So Mike Prendergast has come in as their attack coach. So that kind of post lead black-hit issues with their attacking game. - Lots of clubs are after him, I think. - That'll be his remit to get them back attacking like they were in their pomp under black-hit when they're on the league. - I cannot see a world where they're not in top four. - Yeah, sure. - Well, short top four, Jones. - Bath and saints, yeah, probably sail, I think actually sail pitch is one way for Scott. And then for me, the big unknown this season is Sarasons because we've not heard of Peep had a Bren event today. He didn't even come to the Prem rugby launch. Like, they are a club that's run in a very unique peculiar way. A lot of things that, you know, I wouldn't say that it's been to say don't think you're seeing much versus it to be honest. But I have absolutely no idea how Bren the Ventor is gonna work. He's been out of rugby for ages. In his heyday, an unbelievable director of rugby, but this is going back a long, long time. I have zero idea at how dulled in he is. I know he's been back and forth, but he hasn't been coaching rugby for term, has he? They've signed incredibly well, but like not loads of players, but really big names. George Martin is one of those. You mentioned how the curries don't get on the pitch loads for their club. Are they going to get George Martin on the pitch for 12 Prem games out of 18? Almost certainly not because he'll probably with the new enhanced contracts, Peek is fitness around England camps. Unbelievable player, don't get me wrong. Potential world 15 lock on his day. Alfie Barbury, how is he going to fit into Saras? If he, Alfie Barbury is best, there's no better ball-carrying number in league and Thomas Williams is going to be world class. So, for me, they're the elephant in the room. I have absolutely no idea where they'll finish ninth or second. Ninth. (laughing) Well, someone has to finish ninth, don't they? Well, someone has to finish tenth. I mean, they talk about. Yeah, but even without a coach. But first players to get to more than one. His history is littered with a big North Hampton. Well, where were there a couple of seasons ago? Eight? Oh, yeah, yeah. Some year that they got to the Champions Cup final. Yeah, because they focused on one on the other. Sure, but this is the league. It's a weird league. There aren't that many matches. There's only 18 regular games. You can win 10 matches and finish eighth or you can win 11 matches and finish third. Bonus points are key. There's sometimes really not much in it from third to eighth to ninth. There really isn't. So, that's Bristol last year, wasn't it? They had won the same amount as fourth. It was their bonus points, which didn't. Yeah. And I think squads aren't deep enough. It was the ninth. The bottom three is a drop off. If you get two or three key injuries to your start in 15, your season's done. Because there isn't the depth, unfortunately. There isn't enough space in the cap. So, yeah, I think Saturdays are the one this year that I think they might just get it right again and be challenging. And I think Thomas Williams is the best nine in the league. And I think George Martin. If they can get in fit, he can't have as bad a run as he did last year. He can't. I think he could be the sign of the season if he comes out and bangs with Marrow. What a pair. And that is a lot of pairing for both club and. Mum, I can't still in there, you know, every week. Is he? OK. I think they'll do well. I just can't say it with the certainty that you could say it about Northampton and Bath. So, what is your top four, CJ? You've got about seven in there now. No, Bath, I said Bath, Northampton, say it, and Saris. OK, be my four. Yeah, although I do think you have to respect less the Tigers because wherever they've been in the last few years, coaches coming and going turn over of players, they are still so hard to beat a Welford Road. But they've lost Nicky Smith. They've lost Julian Montoya now, haven't they? Where's the last year? No, but in terms of where the scrum was, a couple of seasons ago, when they got to that final, you were like, oh, that is such a good scrum. It's not the scrum. Whether they can have that scrum that they did have when they were, when it just goes, it's just so hard to win a Welford Road when they're scrumming like that. Yeah. So, I think they might just miss out on the top four, but I'll be low to write off Leicester. Be interested to see if Billy Searle can do what he did last season again. It's such a good year, didn't he? It's going to be really hard for him to put that up again. What's great in what we're doing is we're facing our predictions. And one thing I've learned recently is if you make a prediction, you're there to be absolutely gunned out. So, we're going to have six other teams using this as motivation, which fine? I'm lighting they've got more motivation. No, they do, they use it. Mox on a podcast. They're listening to podcasts, CEOs, and DORs, and we listen to podcasts. Do you know what they're probably what they do? It's go no one racist. No one racist. This is what we do with England. Yeah, any three. Everyone hates us. It's one of the things we do here. It's one of the 23 World Cup. Everyone in England, semi-finals, semi-finals, every podcast, so we found a podcast. It's got three listeners, one subscriber, and they think you'll lose the fans. Everyone thinks you're going to lose the Japan. You mentioned George Martin has been the best signing of the season. He didn't even get name checked. The single best signing. Who got the most votes? 30% of votes went to this man. What? Thomas Williams will be up there. Jack Morgan will be up there. Jack Morgan. I think he will be incredible for the league. No way, right? Aaron Wainwright is in there with, he received a vote. Thomas Williams, 20% Jack Morgan, 30% of three out of 10, said Jack Morgan, two out of 10 to Thomas Williams, also getting votes. Alfie Barber, he's Courtney Laws, Hoskins to 2-2, I'm spoken about the Red Bulls and their remarkable squad transition, and then Ashie's man Aaron Wainwright, who's got a vote as well. So those are the names that have been mentioned as the best signing. Jack Morgan, Thomas Williams, and then one vote each for Alfie Barber, he's Courtney Laws, Hoskins to 2-2, and Aaron Wainwright. Yeah, well, Jack Morgan, genuinely well-class, coming to the Prem, which is brilliant for the Prem. Can't wait to see him. And Derby Lake as well will be huge for Gloucester. I just don't know where the Gloucester have got enough around them to justify that being the sign of the season. I think if he was coming into a club that was fifth or sixth last year with a chance to push for top four, then potentially. But I just don't see, unfortunately, I don't see Gloucester yet in their journey being up there to justify that being the sign of the season. That's why I think it'd be someone potentially like a George Martin that could be the difference to take someone up a level to then be able to compete with the best. That's why I went from George Martin. Gloucester reminded me a little bit of extra a few years ago. No one ever was left. And then they're looking for his investment, they're looking to like get no one thought would. We've thought electrically a couple of years ago that they'd be, make the final and have some brand new American investment. Places are now completely different. So I think Gloucester and the similist were extra. I got a couple of good lads, and they just need a good year and surprise a few people just to put everyone's interest. Right, one more answer. Will this finally be the year Newcastle don't finish bottom? I mean, they've got every chance they've thrown enough at it and they've thrown enough signings. They've got some genuine top international level players there. It's their biggest chance of picking a position. They went to last thing once. Yeah, I know it's Prem Crock, but they won well. And that Jonesies point, people don't go to a well-fed road. Well, let's have a pretty strong team out here. What they've got to do is they've got to make their home more of a fortress like it used to be. Used to go there and never want to go there. It's always, it's always cold. It's always miserable. Does the pitch not help with that? It's the pitch more that I care. I know people don't like playing on those pitches, but it's a leveler, so. Yeah, potentially. It allows teams to play their game. I mean, more. My experience of us at Harlequins, the trips always along one. You know me, I have to play them on a Friday night. You can't get back, or if you do get back, you get back at five in the morning. You've got all that. But then the pitch was like, oh, it's perfectly suited to the way we want to play. And if you've got Marcus on your pitch and Tyrone Green and you have George Furb at this year, if someone like Quincy would like brilliant, would love to go play against Newcastle. So maybe, yes, the players that they brought in, I think it might suit them as well. Yeah, they're going to try and play rugby for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I think, potentially, this could be the year that maybe they don't finish bottom. It's a great case study, isn't it? Of. I know we've had a season with them under new ownership, but this is now they've got coaches in place and I Gregor Townsend comes in later. But Dan McFarlane now in place, Stephen Jones, in place, feet under the table, and they've gone and scoured the world for signing 70. So basically, it's kind of 30, in 30, out kind of stuff. And there are players that are coming from the league that we know have been there and done it. And Elliot Millamille was a Tom Wester Sam Graham all from Northampton. Lucy Tueema, Josh Hodg, then they've gone a little bit kind of big names out the box. Hoskins, the 2-2, well-being England fold before too long. Rafi Quirk, who we're hearing, has got a bad knee injury, which is devastating for Quirk. So does the most underrate in sign of the season come from Dan McFarlane then? Maybe he's the guy. Well, he did say, there were times when he was. we're at Ulster we're going so well he's got he's got a great reputation I think's tailed off a bit at Ulster but highly rated they've got they've got everything in place now if he's able to put it in place quickly then he maybe becomes the most under arrest. But is that too many players to do that to do that and any any kind of that's what I mean that's what Raffi was talking about how whole new culture whole new everything. I want you can get that in place quickly and get him going bit of more structure than what they've had a bit more edge bit more ruthless this what what they did not have lost it they were giving up on 50 minutes. I'm sure Dan's tried to put that in place so if he's able to put that all together quickly then he's got a he's got to respect haven't you. I'm speaking to Dan McFarland at the Prem launch and he was saying it's about 30 years since he was last involved in the Prem as a player and he was just absolutely buzzing to get back in the in the fold and attack it and the lad seems to love him like he think he's working them hard but they love him so and what you know experience knowledge how to win games. I like what they're doing now it's going to take a few years but they I love the fact that they're going well we want to be in Europe in a few years and we want to challenge to win the league. You know it they're in a place as well you I don't know what you'd think. Well if you go to certain clubs right now and you're asking to do something a bit different are you asking for money to do this and do that they'd probably go no we're not doing it right now. This is what we've done this is how we're doing it yeah where you Red Bulls won't be like that right yeah that's what you want to do okay once you're going to cost you let's give it a go see if it works. Things like they'll they'll come to London then they'll go right rather than just flying back the next the same watch straight away after could we go and stay at the night in a hotel and fly back the next day in Red Bull go well yeah you can we can do that and then I know and it says little thing but players go um wicked how calls that so then you get they go let's just go and bar up against Quins or Saracens and then we can stay we'll have a night in London we'll go home all as a team things like that do bring a team together and make you fight for each other a little bit more so that they they've as actually said they've got the ability to try different things and you know there's a there's a game on it there's a football match on after can we go and watch that as a team you know little things like that can bring a team together and we can't have if you're if you're pinching every penny exactly well I do wonder how it works with Saracens because it's Red Bull because they've got these facilities and got these so well it's all we're doing it for free you know what I mean whereas the club would have to go and spend to get these point of difference I don't know if they want could fly you back on a private jet that's what a difference was a roster would have to forcoat for a jet for the lads yeah and hotel and stuff or even to go watch the Red Bulls in Germany yeah go watch a football game like Leipzig is it coming it's not coming under the cap because they can I don't know what the answer is to it just all I know if you take if you're going for launch for 50 50 quitting is a player it's got to go in the cap yeah so okay so there's there's a limit to what you can maybe we don't know but certainly they're in a completely different place only and can it for them it's still finished it's not finishing bottom isn't it I know we can talk about that okay so they don't who does I still think they probably finished bottom but probably pick up for four or five wins it's been good if that there's that kind of it's not as if their casts are drift I still would probably think they're finishing okay bottom but they're picking up four four yeah I think the hard thing is who does if they don't yeah and this happens and and do you think someone as I said before someone has to finish nine when whoever finishes nine there'll be crisis but someone has to finish nine whether it's Gloucester Bristol Harlequin's would probably be the Bristol I mean they want to would this it's Bristol you know I'll Bristol gonna where it would what part table are they gonna be in but someone will have to finish but they played half a year without a ten oh look a McGinty as their first choice ten yeah I see them definitely missed half a year but gaps of a toy missed half a year it's hard to think it you couldn't say to me right now who's finishing bottom I said I don't know it's the team that gets a bit unlucky with injuries and doesn't get going early doors which we there'll be one team that struggles and a few things go against them a few injuries come and then they're like wow how are we getting out of this and then they're in a bit of a hole that could be Newcastle it could be Saris it could be Bristol could be Quins could be any of them and suddenly it comes really tough especially because the league will be better this year Newcastle will be better Quins will be better Gloucester will be better everyone will be better than last year but one team unfortunately yeah has to finish bottom and it'd be the team that probably a few things go against them early doors and then then they're struggling because there's not enough games so one man got 30% of the votes from the D.O.R. was for who will be the player of the season who is that man 30% it's not really high is it well I think for one player to get three of the ten I think it speaks volumes as to how high did it give us a position number ten okay Finnsmith Finnsmith Finnsmith 30% of the votes also receiving votes play of the season Manifesto and Exeter Bernhard Jantiff and Rendsburg at the Bears Courtney Laws at Sale Henry Pollock and Althampton Rafi Quirk at Newcastle suddenly quotes me out for most of season Jack van Portfri Leicester Aaron Wainwright at Leicester well I think if if Northampton say to win the league again you'd be very brave to bet that Finnsmith won't be the best player of the season wouldn't you and I just think before of a provider isn't he then to take it all on himself if you know what I mean but is that the best player does the best yeah normally that doesn't it really perceived to be the best I mean I want it once mate so that's all you need to know who won't put the season last year Tom Winnis oh yeah that was a shambles whoever voted for that they finished about six didn't they yeah that that's the best player the league can't be finished it's six I'd say that that completely irrelevant where they finished if he's been standing above it is because you should the best player of the season not a relevant guy that has the most influence on the team or someone who was on the panel to to provide the shortlist that I think was then voted on because it's a joint thing with the our next time as a shambles but who would you have had probably Finnsmith but you you always do this you always do this every time you did this where we voted who did we vote and you're like no it should be on the rest he's in I can't remember who was but someone one player the season a couple of years ago Willis was good Tom Willis he would know the Sarri's win Sarri's testing like they didn't get into top four but they weren't on that run at the start the season when Sarri's rappin down he was awesome he was decent but his team finished well they finished yeah but this this voting is done before the collapse before well with a couple of really couple of weeks to go so and it was really tight it could easily have gone into the top four for me rugby being the ultimate team sport for me the best player of the season has to be the one that influences their team to win so Saints were top of the league all year and that man saying to me would have been Finnsmith someone from Saints you saying they were top league goalie three never like that someone from that team no one's asked me to be on these panels yet so well we matter of time before I'm kicked aside and you come in no don't do just I mean I mean you're right I'm joking I'm joking the Henry you are for three years you're all up three best friend the league in five years Henry Pollock 30% Manifesto voted 20% also receiving votes Noah Calauri Lucas Friday Archimit Parland Finnsmith again and Jack Bum Portfleet Pollock might not be a no Pollock signed his deal it's announced this week as he yeah Saints but he signed it weeks ago well played they've done really well there are there 400 K two years I hear Tommy Freeman 450 which feels fair like I think if you still have you still have 450 for a winger but do you not think that do you not think that would you know what for a winger should have stuck around more he's a bit more like I dare say in your comp you were pretty nowhere near that neatly remunerated no way no near that so I reckon you were getting paid I imagined something like 300 grand yeah but you're not jealous so yeah no 10 years ago daddy I'm pleased for the that yeah you got paid for you got paid I got paid I got paid decent money I'm happy with that I'm the last few years was a sham consider in the other 10 years between trophies he got paid I know over he got myself they want to trophy all pay myself to do you win a trophy of 10 years and then when they put you on a one year rolling deal you want to leak a case that's the lesson there's that CJ was that that's don't like try and assist that's what they want I'd pay for that what combined try and assist you the best in the league history without a mark without a doubt yeah miles clear yeah I don't think there'll be a it's not even a no I think I honestly told me Tommy Freeman and Tom winners with the best plays in the league so I know Tommy Freeman is a winger he's not but he scores loads of tries his first top place in the midfield yeah he's worth his waiting goal for Saints I know Vince missed their highest paid player but it makes sense for the Tommy Freeman to get paid more than Henry Pollock doesn't it is that that's a good question actually is he worth more Tommy 350k in way in gold what's your way by Andre Kilo so do you reckon for that So you know he's been a bit less than 100 KG was not way big life maybe maybe more I'm very pleased to Tommy I need to eat a lot more serves how much of a hundred kilograms of gold? Yeah, I'm gonna find out I before I take over the world can you think in the answer what is Tommy free with waiting gold worth? I wonder who's so Fin Russell's the highest paid player in the prem Who'd be next Fin Smith? Marrow Marrow Marcus Smith. Yeah Faz Well, I think he must have come back on a smaller deal than what he left. We're way off. We're way off, are we? A hundred kilo of gold is so much trick. I don't this is like I'm gonna be Millions out here. Well, I don't guess. Okay, a hundred kids a lot of gold actually. He's a lot of gold. Okay, five million. Oh, I reckon More 100 million five hundred million ten million ten million. Yeah, Gordon Brown's sold a lot. He's cheap He's cheap so so he's actually yeah, he's Okay, but if he'd signed a 20-year contract. Yeah, then he'd be worth his way in gold Okay, oh anything else. I feel like I've not been able to Really commit to some of these answers because it's such an unknown Well, that's really doesn't help when you're doing a prediction podcast. No, no, but that's not Good, I think so okay, so tell me you do know about a she and this was another question asked the deal was who is the best finisher in the league Top Triskaur next season Well, that's not quite the same thing is it Because you could be sure it's exactly the same thing. You could be top Triskaur from hooker with nine rolling more tries Backed a couple like that though. What you did get the on the back of a more once or twice. I Don't even know if you should just say team. I'm next to. Yeah, she's like that's try should be a team try multi-nicked In a in a European Cup game against London Irish once There was a mall. I'd already scored two Luke Wallace is on the back of the mall So I got on the end of the more nicked it and scored And obviously it's my first hat trick ever and fresh the herbicide buzzing Luke E Wallace turned around and went I was also on a hat trick And I've never scored a hat trick. Luke Wallace. I stole his hat trick try. He should just say em It's yeah for more or our emissate Luke Wallace. Do you know how some of you see on Instagram people being interviewed on the street? Yeah, did you see him? Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, it's a Simon's script. We see the guy. Yeah So he ride in a line bike through London and it was it was it was really I don't know what it was amazing for the content because there's this guy on a line fight And I'll know where this guy goes up to him says have you look what's your dream? Yeah, and it's like I kind of live my dream And then he said was quite philosophical about being a quality club player but not playing for England It was just a so much of that Instagram stuff is absolute filth isn't it? Just nonsense. Yeah And that was actually bit of a con. Well, that's all right. I get what you say or absolute slot wherever you call And a lot of it is just brain rotting stuff that ruined your life that was a good bit of sort of And it's very true. It was quite emissate his trajectory his trajectory was Huge he was going to go to the top. I was there by stood by the rock when he got his hip dislocated And weighing I don't want to blame weighing barns, but he was holding on to this ball for a good three or four seconds Don't want to blame but you blame for he saying It was a preseason game at London Irish ground saying this is turnover And as Barnes he went to put his whistle in his mouth this kid came and hit him late as luky and just It was one of the most horrific injured I've seen in my life And then unfortunately luky never really got back to the same Level but I think he he was played for Saxons. I think he could have played another one of those that could have played for him Sam Jones again with a back rower When you say you know when you said he can go right to the top. I just think of that Harry Rednut clip What do you think next to Frank Lamford? He could go right to the top First top quality midfiel player. He scores goals. He passed the ball. He scores goals It won't be anything Frank Lamford went to football. Who's the other guy? Oh Scotty Cannon and Matt Holland. Yeah, but all of the players got a cannon won't be cut. Yeah anyway. Yeah, that was good Good top try scorer Luke Wallace. Yeah, no, no Top try scorer could be anyone. You have to drop the back of them all. Who's the best finisher in the league What does that mean? Who's the best finisher? Well, you might be an amazing like Separating because the question they were asked is who is the best finisher in the league? That assumes it's the back Yeah, she was a winger. Yeah, well you'd have a You could say Pollock Because he's good as any back at finishing. My best finisher is Manny Faye were both so Yeah, it got to be there's no way for free when all 10 tries against the same team because this is That's your sale that you've back to win exactly win the league this year surely 10 tries against one team Tommy's got to be there again as well, isn't he? I just repeat that the team that you've back to Let Noah Calorie straight out of school scored 10 tries against the next year and that's Trying Are you think that team just make a mockery of anything that does so you'll be a obviously bit of a lax is Ten closer to your record all because i'm jealous. Yeah You've got a long way to go Noah Calorie. He's been named chair. Noah Calorie gets 20% of the votes Manny Faye votes it gets 40% of the votes Also received always an interesting one because Second season syndrome is a thing Let's let's hope that doesn't apply to Noah. Give it for me. I don't I don't really know You had 12 seasons syndrome Sorry, that doesn't mean any sense well, so because you didn't Did you see that you was playing with injury A lot of time he mentioned that when he came on the pod that he had a bad wrist, yeah Yeah, I didn't realize to the impact that it was having it stopped him catching and stuff He's still doing quite well. Yeah, he did yeah he finished a real high there playing for England. It's going to try against VG But it is a thing because you're just More known people know what to expect from you people that know well have it have a hope of how to handle you But he is freakish so He's different and he to one what else we've got yeah, and if he can just go again Then it could go the other side couldn't it could make a world cup. It's a lot on it for him. It's the expectation Hopefully he can do it again, but I tell you what he will I'm gonna I'll bet I'll give a thousand points of charity if he does score ten against one true one team right this season Yeah, I think you're probably safe there. I'm surprised that 40% of them have saved save failure both So it's the best finish in the league. I think he's potentially the most explosive player One of the most unique athletes Like an unbelievable player, but the best finisher Oh, that's Tommy Freeman for me Someone who is getting on the end of the little grubbers who's getting the cross kicks all round Who's just bagging tries when other Players wouldn't back them. That'd still be still be Tommy Freeman for me. I think okay But money and Tommy were in that last game of season against Argentina. Yeah, I think we'll win or are that Money was ridiculously no as I said he's as an explosive runner. He's got no equal. I did it more than I know yeah Yeah, but it has a it's a finisher in the kind of 50-50 is he gonna score in the corner? I think Freeman's I don't think we've seen enough of money yet. Yeah, that's just gonna say I think I think money is almost only Scratch in the surface with how good he can be and if he could stay fit all year And be playing for extra week and week out playing for a week and week out he could be the best player Can we want the best players in the world? I think and this one's a good one Which active player will make the best head coach George for George Ford 40% oh in foul 20% fin smith 20% also receiving votes Alex Coles Colesy very highly rated the same to the student at the game Alex Coles and he's had another brilliant couple of years, isn't he well how many backs go on to be Head coaches It's normally forwards, isn't it? Yeah, it's normally forwards and second rowers quite often well. There's definitely the kind of The trend of yeah Those kind of Leo Cullen both the wick um doubts obviously now bat rower George skivington skids And then you stuff you got the generation of coaches who didn't have a stellar playing career You're Eddie Jones is Joe Schmidt stave Rennies more in Gatland. I know he was a An all black in all but name when he sat on the bench a million times for for Sean Fitzpatrick But surely you're gonna surely When you look at those three that have been named Ford Farrell and fin smith they're all tens because surely A 10 surely no, but a 10 has the a 9 and a 10 you would think have the best understanding of the game as a whole you'd think so but Top top level what have you got galtier as a nine the friends and nine Farrell Farrell who was a center slash bat rower. Yeah, so had a good view of everything But he wasn't really a rugby union, but we would believe it. Yeah, let's stand off lose forward But he was a play-making rugby league he played stand off lose for maybe his position in rugby leagues help with the whole We can do it's no guard are like the main out the guard 10 10 10 So actually you say there there are those kind of hardworking second rows that have moved into coaching But you look at two of the the best around in sounds and no guard and then I'm a ten, aren't they? Yeah That is interesting interesting and it will be interesting. I know I mean Ford and Farrell will be the coaches Will will they but if we're having this chat in five years time sitting at the cabbage fudge maybe ten years time Probably to be fair to both of them Could they be rivaled there was at at the Prem? Yes Yes, what else are you gonna do? I suppose then they could be kicking coaches, there could be attack coaches, you could be 10 years, that would get them to. Well, let's say they're both retired within five, let's say, within two, no, George. No, George would fairly can probably go to late 30s. So within 10 years, I reckon they're short, at least one of them would be a deal, well. Within two years. Well, fast is 35. No, he's not. 34, yeah. 10 years, but up to 44. Well, given them 10 years to earn their stripes, be a assistant coach then. No way, mate. So you're thinking what they were before 44? So your shout was within five years, one of four and Farrah, a tear was, you said 10. I said 10, and that's my shout, but you think it's sooner. It's probably in the contract that we'll happen. I think Farrah has a two-year playing contract and then a coaching contract when that's been a nice one, eh? That's a nice bit, isn't it? Security is having a Farrah, isn't it? Yeah, it's a Sarasans, yeah. I think there's certain positions that just don't get a lock-in for coaching. Like what? I reckon there's some in the forwards. I don't think a front rower is just a stormed coach. Yeah, no, you've got a pro mate, he's just a problem. Don't do anything else. Bear in mind. Gatlin and Eddie Jones are both hookers, weren't they? There's not many back for it. Yeah, there's just nothing anymore. Right. Back, uh, Steve Damher's hooker. Steve Damher's hooker. Um, back three, not many. But to be fair, I mean, whenever, whenever a back three would pipe up in a meeting that way, you'd be like, OK, mate, cool, cheers. Like do not listen to a thing. That person says you don't. You're just confirmed. That's not the way you're waiting for the ball. So you're like, let the, let the lads, let the lads who can see the game a bit better. I'm so glad we had this conversation. Because that's just what's happened, what I've just said. Certain positions. So you feel you don't have, you don't get the room. Do you feel like wingers just, are you trying to just keep it to where I'm trying to say over? Right, there's a back row. If we say number seven is generally, especially international level is like the best player, should we say? Yeah, seven. How many sevens coach, most of the lunatics? How many sevens coach, you got to be a lunatic to play seven? There's not a rugby. So you're telling me the best play on the pitch in all the international teams and a lot of top-ren teams. They don't actually coach. Probably not the best. Why is that? The bravest, I'd say. Not the bravest players, but they're the bravest, not the smartest. Have you been in the best five players in the world? I think they'd come from a range of positions. Best five players in the world right now. Yeah, best five players in the world right now would be. Hang on, let's take, let's name your best best five players in the world. Now, the best five players in the world at the moment are Malcolm Marks, Ardi Savayer, Louis B. Obeyeri. That's three and that's a wing at a hooker and a back rower. Number eight. I mean, Savayer's just like everything isn't in the back row. The pont still on there, but. The pont just needs to be playing regularly. Khalisi wouldn't be one of the best five players in the world. One of the most five influential, maybe, but not one of the five best. And then, who else? Who are we missing? I mean, Chess and Corby would say, I'm quite good. Yeah, Corbyn, the whole of Southburns would say. The whole of Southburns would say that. Yeah. Cam Roy Garda think it's going to be. Sasha. It's Sasha. A lot of wingers here, lots. We're not going to say the coaches, are we? No, I must be okay. There must be a winger. You could be the best player in the world, but you cannot coach. Who has been. Who's the best winger to ever coach? Well, it's not as early any. We will struggle to get one here. Connor O'Shea was a fullback. And he wanted. Jim Malender was a fullback. And these guys both want preps, so they could coach us. Why do you wingers not? Do they come? Do they come? Because. Because, mate, you have just done exactly what everybody else does. So you are more respect for wingers than your campaigners do? No, just because you play a certain position shouldn't reclude. That you got the reaction that DC. You see the more respect that we do. Go back and stand on that wing and win it's the game by scoring a ridiculous strike, please. I scoffed when you're paying wingers the most money because. It's loads of them. And loads of people can catch a ball and put it down in the corner. Ah! Not many. You hit a many corner. You're now in a game plan. Crazy. You've not been fighting. You're off-hand for the team exactly where they want to be at the right time and play with the tempo, whether it's fast or slow. You know, that takes a different type of brain, I think. We're being prejudiced over position. But if we have missed any wingers that have gone on to coach. Which we definitely have. Please give us a shout. I'm trying to think there is not any of that come to mind. Well, actually, we could make this a BBC. Why don't you do any coaching? You do your badges and becoming. No. Well, there you go. Stop. I had enough conversations around place where they go. Exactly. You're right. You've not got the encouragement because they just see you. And I'm just saying how you. There is definitely something in this. You've just named the best players in the world. None of which positions are coaches. Okay, but. I remember Gwiggin is trying to be a defense coach and he was a winger. He was a winger. Yeah, he was. Good call. Yeah. That'll be your missing, someone, 100%. Anyway, double header of rugby on Five Live this weekend. We've got the Red Roses game on Saturday on Five Live. And then I'll be at Leicester on Sunday. I'm actually doing double header with TNT this weekend. Friday night. Maybe we could have 30 seconds where we trail BBC out. Oh, sorry. No, no. And just let me trail BBC Output before you start to remember your. Remember that season? TNT coverage. TNT coverage. I also trail the BBC pod. You forgot that bit. You did forget that. All right, before we go, two things. I mentioned the commentaries you got this weekend. Red Roses pod is out on Thursday. Ugo and Sarah going into camp ahead of that big game against the Black Ferns. So look out for that. And one shoutout we got in from Tom Hykris. Could ask you in the boys to give the bath coach, Joe Han Van Grand, a special shoutout for going above and beyond on the pod. My son badly broke his arm playing rugby through school. JVG was watching and sat with my boy holding his hand, keeping him calm for an hour while we waited for an ambulance and I raced in from work. He even asked his physio who was treating Max and Joe at the time to review the injury via video on his phone. What a top blow. Thanks Tom and Max, who's now recovering. So lovely gesture from the bath head honcho. Yeah, amazing. Probably doesn't surprise me that. You hear the stories of Yoann and who does literally go above and beyond for his players. But also that's extending to any of the rugby public or the general public. So yeah, brilliant. And another story of how cool rugby is. You know, one of the best coaches that we've got in the Premier, the minute one of the best coaches in the world going above and beyond and helping people. So yeah, brilliant. And we wish you all the best, mate. I'm just glad to see you. Great to hear from you, Tom. Best love with your recovery, Max. But still, even though you hear that human touch makes him one of the best around, they're not on the top four for you. Actually, are they both? No, I'll have to spot open. No, you'll have to spot. No, you didn't. I've been to about seven to go into four. No, it's a good shot. Look, this is what it's hard. It's hard. Put your neck on the line. You're the new UGO, mate. Not a single prediction will be given from that man. Oh, yeah. No, we will. Oh, she's missed it. Let's get his predictions. We'll get him to take it. We have to get him to publish them. Yeah, because we've all said ours. As she said, bath wearing at the top four. No, no, let's get him. It's a take. But if you're right, then aren't you? Fair play, that's not stunning. But that is about what prediction is. Yeah. You can't leave it open. It's a prediction. Who's going to walk up next year? I'm going to leave it open. There's probably five or 16s that can do that. Let's go. See you later, everyone. Let's see you guys. Thanks for downloading Rugby Union Weekly. For more info. Head to the BBC Sounds app. Sounds app. You can find the BBC News Channel and a claim documentaries to in depth analysis and features. Visit BBC.com/subscribe to find out more.