Power Struggle

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Hey, there's more or low pass from the all moral low pass daily podcasts. All right, quick question. You ever notice how some cars just steal the spotlight? Well, that's the 2026 Toyota RAV 4. It's got bold standout style, intuitive tech inside. And now hybrid power standard, which means efficiency without the need to plug in. So whether you care about looks, smarts, or just everyday practicality RAV 4 brings all of it. You've been holding out for the right SUV. This is your sign. Check out the 2026 Toyota RAV 4 at your local Toyota dealer. Or visit Toyota dot com. See packages and options at toda.com for feature availability. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try a new food and suddenly it's like, okay, hold on. I got a new favorite food. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Cupid Mayon. Yeah, it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it at the grocery store. And this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Cupid only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor. It's smoother, deeper, almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on everything. Eggs sandwiches, fries, burgers, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really care about flavor use it. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Five lives rugby union weekly. Right guys, two streaks were ended the weekend. What are they or what were they? Was it in the taker back? Oh, he's gone. No, no, no, we're not talking. You finally play those on the pants. We're talking the other day about him being shot the last few parts for the piece of it. Normally you've saved your best gag for the end of the pod. He started here. He started from the top. Have you changed those on the pants? Uh, in progress. Okay. So, two streaks were ended the weekend. Um, red roses. Red roses, 41 much on beaten run. Yeah, well. And. Do you know this one actually? Is it a big streak? It's a streak. Why should I know it? Because you were, you were at the game. Oh, um, Bordeaux got beat. Oh, Drew, Bordeaux draw. Their 60 match champions got winning streak. Yeah. Has come to an end. They are still 17 unbeaten. Three off the record, which is held by. Ooh. Three off the record from beaten champions. How long? What, what, what, what are you talking about? Sarries. Really? So, here's another one of your records going to go. We've got Christian Wade on your tail. Louis B. O'Berry and the rest on your tail for the Champions Cup Troy score record. And Bordeaux are coming for Sarries record. Is, is there an asterisk on that record or not? I think when it comes to Champions Cup. Champions Cup is fine. It's slightly different. No, you don't, I mean, just checking. No, no, no, I think it's a valid question. But I think at the time, I think Johnny Sexham has asked about this. And he was like, "Well, in Europe, there's no, there's no salary cap in the U.R.C." Top 14 salary cap is different. I think when it comes to Champions Cup, there's less cap in the ring. Anyway, right. Loads of Cup, Champions Cup, Red Rose, Wall of Bs. I mean, see, the oil black is the first half. Oh, Spain 2025. -Vamos. -Bain 2025. Spain 2035. Vamos C. I'm in. So I wouldn't roughen a deal, four hand down the line. Vamos. All to come, a Chris Ash from Danny Kerr, Chris Jones. This is Robby Newy. Right, I would say, Chaps, Loads to get through in a moment on this pod. But I think very important, we start. With the news that came in on Friday, that sort of overshadowed, not just the game, I was that sail, Glasgow, with High and Andrews being a former player, not just the La Rocha Alliance, but the whole weekend. I mean, you don't know where to start with a tragedy like that, do you? No, I think it rocks the whole rugby world. Just so sad, you know, when you saw the news, you almost can't believe it. Horrifically sad for High and Family, kids, teammates, friends. I don't know how those lads managed to play that game, but they did it for him, and they did it for his family, and represented him as well as they possibly could. But yeah, I mean, nothing other to say, really, than just horrifically sad. Can't almost believe it's true, but it's happened, but heartbreaking, I think, for the whole rugby community. I just, I should say, why aren't you just unbelievable, really? Am I all right to say that I don't think any rugby should have been played? It's just, yeah, I mean, of course you are. Of course you're right to say that. I just don't think. Like players, you know, I was at sail Glasgow, which I get onto, and I know from speaking to sail staff, how close he was to some of those sail players. Like I've been riding the captain, I was wondering, is leading the team out? And 24 hours earlier, less news that a good mate has died. The line's players in tears. I mean, Lara Shell did a beautiful tribute, the applause in the fifth minute. Moment of silence for every game, of course, impeccably observed. But yeah, you'd, of course, I mean, this is. Of course, you'd, you'd have to be right to actually say that. I just can't see how those lads can play a rugby game. Safely. And I just can't, I don't think it's possible. So with you, Ashia, I was, I was shocked. Probably, yeah, probably shocked to see that the game was still going on. I thought, wow, that's. All of them would delight, the Lara Shell Lions game, particularly. The particularly that game? Yeah, you can't, but I'm sure we've all experienced death. And the impact it has on you when you're so close, there's nothing. There's no way you can play a rugby. The next day. But it's just not. Because when, I mean, so, so, so, sort of. sort of, sort of, eerily coincidental, isn't it, that 10 years on to the day from Anthony Foley's. I remember exactly where I was when Anthony Foley got the news about Anthony Foley. The game was called off, wasn't it? The, the, the racing monster game. That, that weekend. And then, the monster played up with a weekend later in the league, into Glasgow, and it's so emotionally charged. So, there's no way you can play so close to that happening. I just don't understand it at all. I don't understand it. But at this, I don't know. Some of this is where the competition's at. How is that not being cancelled? Well, this is the, the, the Lions coach spoke about that. And he was asked where the game should have gone ahead. I spoke to Alex Anderson about whether his players were in a fit frame of mind to play. And, you know, it was kind of that, you don't, you don't really know. Everyone deals with grief in a different way, don't they? And I think the, the point the Lions camp made is they wanted to honour Hyron, honour his family. And that's great for them. They shouldn't be half to make that choice. Should they? They shouldn't, they shouldn't rest with them. To go, do you want to play or not? Yeah, let's honour Hyron. I've got, they're not going to say, no, are they? It's not, but it's got to go above them. It's got to be the people at the top going. Yeah. A kid's, a lad's died in the hotel, this game is not going on. We're all going home and we're going to see our families. It's not, I don't get it. And then you've had, you've had, you've flown over with, with, with your mate. Yeah. And then you've had dinner with him that night and then the next morning, what's happened happened to then, to be in a fit state to go and play a game of rugby? No way. Which isn't safe anyway. I don't know. Yeah, I was, I was a bit surprised to see that they weren't on the next flight home and coming home, but, but, you know, it again, fair play to them for playing, but I think maybe on reflection will be, will be as insignificant in that moment. Really interesting listening to you and Sarah with Peter Emani and talking about the, the grief around Anthony Foley that he experienced and how the players, some players, did he say some players are counselling, some players didn't, but in hindsight, you know, you're not, you're not in the right frame of mind for ages after something, after something like that. I mean, you, and you mentioned on the podium, you played when Seb, the poor academy player died, you played a, a day later, in Leon, was the challenge cop final, wasn't it, against Montpellier? So there is a, there is precedent for teams playing, but Preston also for games being called off, like it was, with, with Anthony Foley. Yeah, I don't think, there's a, I was, I said about the, the Seb, I don't hear in a Lula case with Quins. I didn't know, I didn't know how to deal with death. I had no idea how to deal with it. We had, we had no idea as a group, you know, what's the best thing to do? You know, you've got a lot of them in cop final two days later, so we were like, right, well, let's play, let's play for Seb, try and win that trophy for him and his family. And I remember running onto the pitch, and I was like, floods it is, just thinking, it's big, you know, as a young, I was a young captain, trying to lead that team. And you think, almost you want to be anywhere else than a rugby field right now, but at the same time, you know, rugby pitch is the time where you probably don't think about it all, should I mean, when you get going and you start past this is the final? This is the final, yeah. Unfortunately, we didn't get to win the game for for Seb and his family, but yeah, I still think, like, as Peter said about Axel, he's still not over it, and he should have had probably some help at the time, and I really hope those lines, boys, I've got the right people with them, 'cause play welfare in this has to come as a big priority to those players, and obviously goes without saying the family. - Yeah, I mean, it sounds cliché, but it does put everything into perspective, being at sale, actually, and you could feel around the place. There was a sort of dude atmosphere understandably. I mean, sales started the game terrifically, but then speaking to well, Sanderson afterwards, and he kind of said, well, you're reluctant to try and use, he said it's far bigger than rugby, so you wouldn't want to use it as motivation or anything like that, 'cause I almost trivialize it. - It was a very, very difficult one to get your head around, from that kind of point of view, if you're trying to play and try to work out where rugby fits in the whole scheme of things. - You just exist, and I think that it shouldn't be rest on you. If you're so close to him, you should be able to say, I need a bit of time, whatever. - That hasn't happened. A final. It's slightly harder to change, isn't it? Final, everyone's going to the game. Not that this is an excuse, but it seems a bit harder, there's a bit more in it to change, but a game with Arashel just both takes split points and go on, just forget about it. Move on, guess. - Yeah, I mean, you'd like to think that things like scheduling congested calendars. - On net really. - Don't really, don't matter in the whole scheme of things. - But maybe that's what's coming to the thinking when you go, "Should you not play the whole weekend?" Or at least the Lions, La Rochelle game, the La Rochelle Lions game, you can find a chance to re-render as you say, split the points, and I doubt anyone at La Rochelle is going to go, "Oh, we're at home, we've got a full five." I mean, Ronogara himself was in the rassing dressing room and he would have known Anthony Foley from Ireland days. He said, "Everywhere he's been in the world, there's been tragic events unfolding." And so he's aware as anyone about putting the perspective that rugby goes into. So I doubt anyone at La Rochelle would have complained if that was the decision made. - Yeah. - Because he's bigger than rugby, isn't it? - Definitely. - And your heart just breaks, your heart just breaks for his family and those close to him. And yeah, the fact that the Lions players were able to play incredible from them. And same for the sale players, because I know from speaking to people in and around sale, on Saturday being up there, he meant a huge amount to a lot of people, great guy, quality player, two and a half years there, had one of his sons in Manchester. Born in Manchester, so what more can you say, really? And as you know, go on to the rugby, they did start the game incredibly well sale, scored two early tries, looked the part, but I know you've been on Glasgow's case for a while, Danny from a positive point of view, but they are a very, very good team who watching them in the flesh, like it did the year before for the weirdly the same game again sale. They have got everything to go really deep in this competition. - Yeah, they're set up for success, I think. They've got, I mean, I love the temper they play out, but I love the physicality they also bring. They wear you down, don't they? - They marry the two incredibly well, they've got proper finishes out wide, they've got some tough, tough lads to the middles, some tough lads up front. And that's not an easy place to go and win. I know where everything going on, but I think we can absolutely forgive sale for perhaps not being there mentally for the game. Glasgow just got had to go and do a job and they got the absolute job done. And I think they'll go deep in this competition, they'll go deep in your scene, I think they'll go deep in the Champions Cup as well. - Because once you get a win like that and you get the full, it's very different, this bonus point, it's completely different though, isn't it, it keeps you playing. And they scored, tabby to a pilote, you see only his little brother goes in to get the seven tries to four and suddenly they're going home with the full five and they were, they were cock a hoop after Glasgow because they know what a big win that is. And when you look at the other games they've got in their pool, yes, they've got a climb on a way, but that's not the fortress it was, the other two home games they'll, they should win. So they put themselves in a position like they did last year and the thing for me actually, and we'll talk about the prem sides and the poor weekend they had. Error count, these top teams, they keep their error count so low and you look around the Glasgow team, so only to a pilote is a class above, Kyle Stain makes zero errors, Jamie Dobie makes zero errors, they got sparking number nine's, they've got a hard forward path, that's called four rolling more tries, but the efficiency with which they played, and then he got a 10 like Dan Lancaster who's not a kind of high profile 10, but you put him with a running threat of nine, a big ball carrying playmaker at 12 and a right-winger who makes zero mistakes, you know, a talented four-backer, hard running 13 and stuff from McDowell, and then he fits in and managed the game really, really nicely. - He does, but we've said it for a long time on here that you need a world class 9 and 10 to succeed. - I'm gonna dispute that only because, and you can fire back up again, what extra didn't win the league, fine, but next I want to double with Joe Simmons at number 10, and you wouldn't say he is a world class 10 as quality as he was for Exeter. They got to a final with Harvey Skinner at 10, but because of what they've got a number nine play in the rugby of his life and finally, they had a world class 12 carrying the ball and playmaking in Nicotau and a quality playmaking 13, so I think, yeah, and a pack. So yes, I think in a deal world, you want to fin Ross, you want to fin Smith, you want to Jalabair, you want to find a world class. - That's different. - But I think you can get by with a 10 who knows his role really well, who manages the game nicely, if you've got people around him like they have a glass go. - I think it's different if you're a homegrown talent. - What, what, why exactly? - Because you're growing up together. They all grew up together. His brother's in the same team. There's a completely different connection. - Okay, best mates throughout the whole team. - Yeah, I think he's just a different, yes, I know he's not. He wasn't, I mean, he's still a very good player. We didn't get to international level, but I just think that's different. The connection's different. - You still would think glass go, when an excrement hits the fan, you still would feel that they would be a short of a world class, they'd need a world class number 10 to win big. - Until I'm proven otherwise, yeah. - Okay, just because it's so other big, or the big ones in the. - Yeah, I think so. - And look, as you know, we speak about the core part being on Fortress, it hasn't been the last 12-18 months, so it doesn't need to be taken into that perspective, and the fact that all the Prem teams lost by one, and the fact that they were the emotional, everything emotionally going around the game, but I still looked at that glass go team and felt it was completely nicely balanced. - Very to extra. - I think we did this last year as well, but then we said, I can't really, who not? Can I ask about? - They got knocked out home by too long. - That was it. - Yeah. - That was the game, and I remember being sat in this very room where we said what they could have done with a bit more experience at nine and 10, just to change the momentum of those games. When the games, when it's all going for you, and your four pack are on top, and your wingers are collecting everything and not making mistakes, yes, playing 10, you can just slot it in and be a bit of a cog in the system. However, when I think when it gets to, as she's saying, knock out quarter semis finals, you need a quarter semis finals. - You need your big players, your best players to really step up. And if you don't have a nine or a 10 that really bosses things and completely changes the course of games sometimes, I think that's where they might come and stuck. - But watch this space, then. - Roof will be in the play. - Yeah, absolutely. - Well they are, what I did think about watching the game about the rugby over the weekend is attack. It just seems so predictable. It's actually starting to drive me mad. - I reckon we've had five years now of this same style of attack. - Run us out the back, forwards, pop, three, pot of three forwards, five at the back, two off the, off the thing. It's everybody is doing the same thing all the time. - But it's a copycat sport, isn't it? - Ruby's always doing the same thing. - Why is that? - Did you, but then do you not think the, well I don't think guys go do that? - No, no. And I think there are a couple teams that don't. I mean, Northampton still, they try, I wouldn't put them in that. - I wouldn't put them in that and obviously wouldn't put Bordeaux in that, would you? - No. - Because they lose, because they play off on structure, they love turnover balls. So I think when you do watch structured attack from OK teams, it was all, I do know what you mean. - It is all a bit the same. - But then it's the forwards who do it a bit better and that's where the Northampton catch pass, the Bordeaux catch pass, the Glasgow catch pass, stand, because the forwards aren't just, it's so obvious when a forward is distributing, 'cause they turn their body and they don't even engage the line. The ones that actually engage and then give it, the really high skill players. - But for France teams, stand out. - They don't, they just play. They don't, they're not that structured. - The French national team? - Whereas England and the prime teams are just like, drilled and drilled and drilled and drilled and it's like, oh my gosh. But then I'd maybe highlight it on the weekend, the difference between, 'cause prime teams struggled, I could just see, I think it's my men's a minute with the French teams. And they, it's stuff like the post contact meters with the French teams. You look at them, how many meters they get after they've been hit. - And they just play a much bigger and then they get an offload away and then it becomes unstructured. And that's when, you know, could you see a couple of the tried to lose score on the weekend, you like? That isn't structured. That isn't anyone saying to them. You run here, do this, do that then. That is rugby players going to give me the ball. I think we're missing it a bit. Special. Especially in the prime. We've had these massive scorelines, but clearly after the weekend, it's like, probably need to have another look at this. Yeah, so how concerned would you be from an English rugby point of view with the return? One win out of eight, which was sent at home to Cardiff who were a bit rotated. Gloucester and Exter, Gloucester, that's a good, just a great draw, isn't it? The brilliant draw. Exeter, oh, we'll get into that because that was probably the game of the weekend. Leicester, I think, you would have expected them to win at Poe, probably not. No. Who did you know, a sail? That's a third defeat in a row against Glasgow. You'd like to have thought they could have a go, but this is Glasgow we're talking about. Saris, I think the big disappointments for me are Saris in Connacht and Bath at home to Montpellier. I think the Bath one's the big one because it was the last year Bath went really deep in this Connacht. Two years. It's the last two years, and they made us say and are saying, right, we won it. We won this tournament, we think we're good enough. And then you just got hoes at home by Montpellier. No points. And they've got to go to soccer. That's kind of there we say. Where's the bench gone? Where's his bench gone? I don't know. It just shows you're doing it like. You know, obviously torsed to toy. It's out of South Africa now. We all would like, would that be a bit massive impact? Will it be that big an impact in the Prem, but definitely in Europe? Well, to not have probably the best tired in the world, either for the first 50 or the last 30. And like you said, yeah, you look at their bench suddenly and it's like, oh, it's not. How does it think? Well, much to be a thing. They all get a purchase, get a few accounts. Yeah. And now you look at him, you go, oh, yeah, we're on. Let's read this. Let's read this. Oh, come on. Andy. Well, let's read this out from Jonathan. We can chat whether he's going over the top or whether there is a cause for concern at the right. He said, I didn't want to write this at the time as it's annoying to agree with Ashley. But even as a bar fan, he was. That's what he's actually put. He's actually put. He's joking. He's a fan. Yeah. I think he's joking. I'll read that out, but I won't include that. He could have said. I could have said, as always, oh. As always. No, I think he's a bar fan. So he doesn't want to agree necessarily with. Oh, he's better than me. No, because he wants to be optimistic about his team's fortunes. And also, just give a pass in neck to me. But that is a rugby thing. Well, the neck. Like, if you meet someone, I had it a couple of times over the weekend. They have to say something just to put you down a little bit. I enjoyed you the day. I normally don't agree with anything. Honestly, he's that all the time. Oh, you're not. Yeah, you're not as big in real life. I get that quite a lot. I'm like, all right. Nice to meet you, mate. Yeah. I said Jonathan, he's a regularist in the pod. So if you don't want to mug him off, him there, he has started it. I didn't want to write at the time, as annoying to agree with that. But even as a bar fan, he was right in projections of barf not making the top four. Underwhelming lack of revitalization of the squad that showed signs of being stale last year. Underwhelming casual even in victories, with only kids like Green showing fire and passion. I thought we might see a transition of squad with youngsters getting time. But the troopers happened way quicker. Physic to gloss the next week looks too much already. Barf are likely to be at best three, two at the break. But snail was sniffed blood in the water in two weeks time upon the pun. Europe is already done with a trip to South Africa to come. It's very early days for that. I think there's still enough time. But they are just seems a bit messy. Even the center situation, what? With Maxi Jomon Lawrence, I don't, doesn't seem to be clicking together. Maxi's flying around everywhere at one point and it was quite a fluid thing all the time. But in the tackle, just not working. And then the shift didn't drop it in this. Well, at 1410, that's one of the biggest misses I've seen. I mean, you get people getting caught over the line celebrating early in this kind of stuff. In terms of a two-on-one, that is an open goal in rugby terms, isn't it, when Carrera and Gives us to Cockle Seeker? And we used to have the coffee earlier, actually. The Joe's got to catch it. But I think I don't know what Carrera is doing, firing it like that from that distance. I have absolutely no idea why he's not just on a little rugby league end over end. Yeah, slightly wet conditions. Little end over end into his breadbosca. I cannot believe they've messed that up because that goes 1910, kick 2110, different games, isn't it? Yeah. I think I've said this word a couple of times, and the word I felt like this weekend is epitomized at most is momentum. Like the key times of momentum in games where you need to then punish it and put points to the scoreboard, teams didn't miss opportunities. Lost momentum, really hard to get it back against bigger teams, more physical teams like the French teams. But I think I look at that bass backline, six out of seven of them, internationals. So I don't think you can start being like, "Oh, we're looking like we haven't recruited well." Like Carrera, Scrocola, Singer, Lawrence, a Jomo, Russell, and Spencer, all full internationals. Quintitate that, wouldn't they? My God, some teams would give for that. Same in the forward part of Bano, Dunn, Stewart, Charlie Ewells, Ted Hill, Guy Pepper. So there's only three lads there, right, you started seeing that aren't full internationals. What's some team doing here? And one of them, Green, Jonathan's name checked, has been one of the players they fought. And Green's been really good, it's been wicked. So I don't think you can start saying we haven't got the squad profile. What some of these premises would do for a profile like that? I don't think they're playing to the full ability of the minute. I think this whole rotation thing that they're doing is amazing and looks brilliant when you win in every game and lads are coming in fresh and adding to it. But I think when you're chopping and changing the team and changing combinations all the time, you don't get a feel of what it should feel like every week. I think they're missing the wingers. I think without the horse, William, you're on the wing. I think he adds so much to that team, whether it's kick chase finish. He's not the quickest bloke in the world, but he chase his kicks like no one. Now he goes and gets it back or creates a mess and whacks a few people on the way. I think they missed Aaron a little bit of a spartor from Aaron Dull. He has got a couple of areas in his game you'd want to see improve for international rugby, but he's got a bit of X factor that you just, when we talked about rugby players, given them the ball and then they do something special. So I think they're missing a couple. I think that is a big loss that they've had. I still think they'll be top 4 in the Premier this year. It was the power thing that got me. Just lacking power. One per year, just. Well, it was all the French teams that you kind of did. Look at what some of the Pope tries. They've just got power and we haven't got that in the Premier. We haven't got it. On the rotation point, I couldn't. I actually was a bit staggered when. You haven't been granted managed this squad really well the last few years, so it's hard to quibble, but when the team came out for Northampton and it was really rotated three weeks into the Premier, I thought that's a bit early to be doing that when you just want to build up a bit of consistency. And that's the message from a lot of Sarri's fans. And we know that Brendan Venta laid out a plan for the first six games with loads of rotation. The nine games. And that's not really working, is it? Again, it works if this selection game that they just. Well, it works if it works. If we. Yeah, it works if it works. They haven't won. So then you're like, let's build some co-heats. Maybe let's stock try to be really smart and think it was smarter than everyone else. So then, does it pick your best players? Does it completely defeat the objects? Because you're trying to rotate keep everybody happy. Right, so everyone's in a good place in that place to get a game time. But then, when you have to scrap it, rip it up and go, you've played terrible, no got a change. Well, you've got to stick with it, haven't you? If Brendan Venta's gone into the club and laid out teams for nine weeks, he can't rip them up. No. Because his whole point is he's done things like play Ben Elf for 40 and Barbury for 40. He can't then suddenly go, oh yeah, you know we've had your minutes all mapped out to England in November. Actually, you're starting. You've been crap, so. Oh, you're not playing or you are playing because we need you to play 80. How's it? So, yeah, I mean, are there bigger causes for concern in the Premier? Because we haven't, like, seasons when the Premier had great weekends and they've been fine listening to this competition, not too far as this. Not too far as this. But I don't think this has been a pretty bad one. I think as we went through a few of the games that to be expected, not really expecting Bristol, a change Bristol to get much in Cape Town, the conduct and the Sari's game and the bath want penalty, the two misses for me, some great performances. But do you think the way the Premier has been played, the way the Premier has been refged, the squad power, you mentioned the power of issues? Do you think it's coming home to Roost a little bit when they go up against the biggest and best? Look, take Northumb to note of it for a minute. I just think we were really lacking. Individual game-breakers? Just like no one. No one just ripping through holes or coming up with a player that's like making a break from 60 and scoring a try. We didn't see that once in the weekend. That's when coaching comes into it. So Northampton don't have the biggest size. I mean, people don't tell me if we're in a big-- We're taking them out. But we're taking them out because they're so well coached. So if you're not amazingly coached and you've not got an amazing X factor, then you're not going to be out of feature against the teams that either are amazingly coached or have loads of X-Factor. Like Conor, again, Saracent that game. Conor, players just had to go all kinds of situations, making breaks from every word, just look dangerous from every word, because it looked like the ability to go off soft spots and then I'm going to go for it was Saracent didn't do that. So you kick it away or take into contact and then set up this attack that becomes predictable, but I find this just far too many teams that we just aren't seeing any game break, isn't it? Yeah. Let's just talk about Conor quickly. The speed in which those lads spot an opportunity, as you just said, but then like there's a difference between spot an opportunity, but then, because it's on that fast pitch, you can literally see how quickly they then flood and then make it into a try-score, rather than it being a half chance. That's coaching, isn't it? 100%. So it's a lot of credit for that. And fair play. He's got them playing a really, really good style of rugby on that pitch, because it's going to be different when they go away from home and it's not as quick, but some of their pace of ball handling, it looked very lense, but on a plastic pitch, what you can do even quicker. And I thought they deserved the win. Look, I think we can all dig into this, and I've already heard, you know, a different sound bites you over the week, and all the prems struggling like we're the, is this the sign of the end for the prems? You're like, come on, we've just been talking the last three or four weeks about how amazing the prems. Yes, it's different when you step up and you go to, but we have said the defence is a problem. We have said the defence is a problem. I think you're right. The power thing, I think, is a problem, but I think, probably at the moment, the weekend has been a bit of a shock to say, oh wow, okay, these guys do hit a little bit harder. They carry a little bit stronger, they've got better post contact on me, as they find offloads, they've got a set piece that can do you, and then they've got power out wide. But look for, I think was it four of the prems this weekend away from home in tough places to go? I think the bath one is the one where people are like, there may be our flagship, one or two teams. They should be in French teams at home, they should be meeting Montbellier at home, you would say. So I think that's probably skewed it a little bit. But the rest of the results, you look at it and you go, glossed the performance, I think, above average of what they should have done, extra to the same, the other teams that lost, I think you could have a good argue to say that they should have lost. Yeah, you just want, because there was a time three or four years ago, and in between when extra till one it, and Northampton got to the final, there was a fallow period where no English teams were making it then. Then it was wicked to see Northampton get to the final. Wicked to see Bath pushing Bordeaux all the way on their home patch in a semi-final. You just don't want to see the teams that have been up there like Bath, if you don't want to see them regressing. And you want to see teams who have been middling start to say, yeah, actually they can take on the very best. So with that in mind, juicy Gloucester has a great draw, actually you were there, love the commentary with James. Did you see that as a good draw? I thought you see that as an opportunity, missed, likewise, extra to lose with 14 men. I thought it should have worn, yeah, Gloucester. Yeah. Did a good job. Like, they're probably the one team that the extra game is pretty crazy, but Gloucester Gloucester should have worn a home, his grey atmosphere, the fans are loving life against Bordeaux. Bordeaux had some changes, they had bent on the phone or in the lock, which Gloucester just didn't capitalize on. Just as a line out. Option. Yeah, but in defense, he could see him, he was like, there's three props on the pitch, surely Gloucester should be playing a bit more to that, but they weren't, they didn't. But they didn't need to a lot of times, they created enough exercise opportunities, but just didn't get it done. I think there was a bit of nerves there and a bit of experience, especially at the end. There was a kicking duel that they lost, which is quite important to how the game finished. But I think if you've got to see that as a good result, where you're at, really. So you in comms supported the idea not to take the three to go to 3936, there was still quite a few minutes left. They kicked the corner, but the line out. And then different context, I know, but the flip side is, is in to lose. An exeter have a, have a penalty, 40 odd meters on the angle, Henry Slade steps up, they would have been extra fans saying go for the corner, take them on, given that they weren't, they didn't have a tri bonus point, they just had the one losing bonus points. The most they were going to come away with is two. At the time I was with my brother, I said, "Oh, you've got to keep the goal, get a draw into lose." But then you think about it, if they had the tri bonus on the old system, that's a three-point game. But the most they'd get out of it is a two-point game. It seemed like some lads forgot that, no, he can't. Yeah, I think so. No, I found some forgot too. I think no, I found some. I think no, I found some in the way that Tony Belieu was. Tony Belieu. Who's Tony Belieu? Anthony Belieu. Anthony Belieu, just funny, those names got a like Tony Belieu. Oh, no, it was handy when they were celebrating when they scored. Oh, what they thought was a four-tri. And I thought. Yeah, they were taking forever. because the comms were saying Belieu has to just not even bother with the conversion because they wanted to get three tries ahead. You're right, I wonder if teams did forget. I just, my instinct was like, Gloucester should have taken the three to go to 36.39, 39.36. No, because I don't, I think Bordeaux, they're going. Right. I think they'd then find a way to score a try in the game. But then even if Gloucester had scored, they'd try to just get, surely you've got to get your nose ahead before the kind of potential tri-tip for that. I felt as highly as Bordeaux, because they would then go. OK, we've got to score a try now. OK, so you're cornered. So what are you with Exeter? Final play of the game, they have a few times. Corner. they win a scrum pen on Tollooza's feed, massive effort from that fact. Yeah. You're thinking. to tell Slade, right, five meter line go for it. Yeah. in Tollooza, don't die wondering. Just because there's not much, we're not getting much of a draw. You would if it was a three-point draw with a try bonus and a two, but it was only a two-point draw here. Yeah, I think they should have gone for it. You know, you don't. very rarely kick. Have a kick and go for a draw, do you? Yeah. Well, you don't get your instincts on both, Danny, both of them. I don't. well, yeah. You don't get many chances to win in Tollooza. Or draw in Tollooza. Or draw in Tollooza. But they should have won. Yeah, I think when you break it down, I was watching the games at home this weekend, struggling myself to get still on this bonus point system, which will take fel ads a little bit of time to get used to. And just for our listeners who want to wear, it's not a try bonus for scoring four tries. You have to score three more tries than the opposition. It's a great rule. So Glasgow scored seven to sales four, so they've got the full whack. Actually, it's a work, obviously, going to get that. I think it's definitely forgot. Saints for God, because they only got two ahead, and they. It's a great rule, but you. You know, we're talking into different things now, but you. There has to be then good communication from sidelines of players, because that does come into consideration. It will do for those boys, because there'll be times when you're in a game. You're like, "I don't know how many tries are the teams going to score." But I know how many we've got now. But there are, there's been. Even though an impeachment have a conversation, it's scored four. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he scored a try today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, at least sometimes we'll be in the break of place. He's scored two, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, you will need that level of communication. I think, yeah, I think if you. It's easy sitting there now, isn't it, on a Monday, dissecting it. But I think, if X had that time again, they would go. Let's go to the corner. So I'm especially when you got Slady on the ball, who is probably one of the best in the World Clutch Kickers at getting that into a corner to give them a. They should have won the ball. And then. They should have been in that. The ball can be these days. You think you're going to go chance to score a try, or at least get. They had just put you a few line-ups. The last thing you wanted. I know, that was advocate. I just think. I see both sides of the X one. I think the Gloucester one, you go through a head, for me. And get the crowd properly roaring. You go through a head. There was a long time left. Were there were. 12 minutes left. Well, the extra should have won. That a red card. Two yellow cards. Man, they should have won the game. Can I ask you about the red? I'm confused and I should know this stuff. It was a straight red, a permanent red card. I was under the impression that permanent red cards don't really exist in the game anymore. Ffff. I thought it was for. Violent. Like, sugary. Yeah. I know his arm is slightly tucked, he's still. Slightly. OK. It's OK, they have the cream that it is. I think he had it in his shirt in his shorts, mate. No, OK, it's a bad one. But when I watched it, I didn't think that hits the. And really, please don't think I'm trivialising. Play a welfare, I'm trivialising the tackle, or saying that it wasn't bad. It's a bad challenge. I was just under the impression, after what happened last autumn, and so after we got straight red, and then it was kind of came out that it was the wrong call. I was under the impression, permanent reds were for gouging, were for punching, were for biting, were for ebonyts the best, to type incident in that South Africa Wales game at the end of last autumn. I still thought that challenge, even it was bad, and it was a tucked arm, it was still an tackle in a vertical, as a attempt. I thought that was still a 20-minute red card territory, so that's why I'm a little bit confused. Is that tackle not as dangerous as the front-point jar, doing anything sugary? Mm-hmm. Well, you could say any of those, any tackle like that, in terms of danger, trumps, all the others. Yeah, it's working. It's working, yeah. It can be. It can be. I think. I can't remember who the laddy got hit, was it Vincent? I can't remember. I don't know. But got straight back up, which I do think. Did he have an HA? I don't think so. I don't know. I don't know. But I think it obviously shouldn't be outcome-based, but I think that one. It was such a quick. Happened so quickly. There's almost two or three people coming into the same collision. It's bad, and he's got to do better with his technique, but I am with you. When I heard straight 20 minutes, sorry, straight red card, I was like, "Oh, that's a big call." I just didn't think that I thought that they weren't really a thing anymore. No, I think it's right or wrong. I think a 20 minute red everyone would have gone, "Yeah, that's probably the right call." Almost impossible to cover everything, but then we got through a fair bit there when it comes to the Champions Cup. Let's go next. We're going to talk about a few more issues on this, on this pod. Red Rose is streak broken. Wow. They hadn't lost since the 2022 World Cup Final again. That was Eden Park and Canada. They kind of, they were, they were, they were working towards this. You know, you were down at Sandy Park, weren't you, Danny, when they took the draw, and a lot of us, myself, included were like, "Oh, you don't get many chances to meet them in the race, just take them on." But they were, they knew that they would have them back at home, and so it has proved. Yeah, here in the chat after, the Canadians were very confident that they'd done it off, they'd seen it off, then they're new getting the red roses on their home turf that they would take the scalp and end the streak and fur plates and they've done it. I do, I think it's a good thing. I do think it's, I think it's a good thing for the women's game. I think it's a good thing for the red roses. Right now, they'll be hating it and be living with themselves for the street being over. But I think it's just, every now and then, reset you a little bit to re-evaluate, to then go sort of again and dig a little bit deeper into your performances because when you keep winning all the time, it's not like I've had a boatload of experience in this, but when you do just keep finding ways to win and you ride, you look a little bit, but sometimes when you get punched in the face, you get stopped in your tracks a little bit. It's the best thing for you in terms of performance and pushing for that higher level because this red rose team can go to higher levels. They've been in extraordinary levels already, but I still think they can get even better. And I think taking a loss like this sometimes is a good thing. It was never going to last forever, was it? It was going to have to end at some point. I'm kind of glad it was Canada. I think they've been the best team. I hope the Canadians get behind the girls like they're starting to in England, so be great, wouldn't it? If we had a regular well-followed Canadian women's team. It's pretty random for rugby, isn't it? The Canadian women to be so good. I'm glad it is there if it was going to be anybody, but they're always going to come to an end at some point. In the end, it becomes weight, doesn't it? This constant, I don't know if you want it or not. You do want it to a point, but when you get to so many games, it becomes a weight on your back. So no, the girls might feel a bit freer. And they play a game in Ottawa. And that's where the WXB is important because Canada and England are playing a lot. It's often one of the things about the women's game, how it doesn't have to mirror the men. So the six nations is the same, isn't it? But if you were kind of going completely from a blank canvas, you might have Canada involved somehow in the six nations, which way the WXB has given a chance for them to play three times. Because that's good. The last you want is a really good team like Canada not being out of play regularly against England because they're in the wrong part of the world. And they don't fit into the six nations, which was an historic concept for men's rugby. It doesn't have to be. The women's association doesn't have to look the same as the men's. No, I think a few things I love about Canada. Firstly, a few of the times they pans to the crowd and there was proper Canadians going mad for their team, which is brilliant to feel that buzz. And I think it was a tough environment for the Red Rose to go into because of the way the Canadian home crowd was taking it to them. And what I loved about watching Canada a few weeks back, they got some proper athletes like absolute athletes, especially in that forward pack. Obviously, the goody gets all the poor and it's the righty so, but Edowoo, the Hucker, we're watching her play in the other week. Brilliant. Hogan Rochester is so good, so quick, so powerful, but their forward pack in particular. For the first time, I think the Red Rose has been met by a team that can physically go toe-to-toe and sometimes dominate. So yeah, I would, I think we should try and get those teams playing each other as much as we can to grow the game. You spoke about super athlete. That first half performance from the All Blacks in Sydney, because I'm so early to get a sail on Saturday, you know, world's smallest violin. So I watched, I watched, I even deserve a violin. Well, the point is, was six-eighth pickups, and I'm not saying all our listeners would have been across it, but oh, I think we gave the one of these a fighting chance, didn't we? I feel a bit doth as saying they could have won that game last pod, because the All Blacks, I thought, well, the speed of ball, another ball in play time for the game was astronomic. But that New Zealand team are up to something, that bat row with the TT. I mean, I know Ardy's not fit, but Lackey is playing out of the skin. McKenzie's looking awesome at number 10. They, I thought that first half, the speed of ball, what they're up to with the ball in hand was very, very special. So something never sat right with scouric in the day. It just didn't sit right. Just the team, the team didn't quite look right. Yeah, they didn't just didn't look like the All Black team that we are so used to seeing for definitely for as long as I can remember like 20 years. It just locked a bit off. So Dave, I don't want to say this lightly, but the players that they have, it's not taken much for the tournament around again as it, because they're good, because they're so exceptional. So I am not surprised by the All Blacks. I am a bit surprised by Australia. I thought they'd, I thought it'd be better. I thought they'd make a win somewhere, but they've kind of just, there's some progression there, but they've got a World Cup home in September, in October, which they're just not getting the results. I saw a stat, the England V-Tonga. That game was more watching Australia than All Blacks V-Australia on the weekend. Is it a World Cup? Yeah, but it's England Tonga in Australia. Yeah, yeah, yeah, loving your own team. No, you're going to more rugby league fans, you're going to more rugby league fans in Aussie than rugby union fans, but you'd like to think the national team would get more, especially in the bloodline, especially in the All Blacks, are in town. No. So they've got the work, they've got the work out of this for the season. It's always a bit one, two step forward, two steps back, isn't it with Aussie? And this is for the union. And this is for the Marquis, Mark, no, what can I need to assay is left them in limbo. He's left rugby league and come back, and he's not committing. It's gone to Japan, isn't it? It's gone to Japan, which again is a bit around, there's a bit of shame. That's a shame. He's such a good player, he's gone to Japan. All right, we won't seem now for two years, but then he's debated. Fiji won, don't they? Fiji, Australia. What is going on here? Well, this is where, and I've said, this has not been me big and after time, because as a podcast, when I've said it four years ago, whatever, how many years ago, I didn't like the residency, the residency, the eligibility switch rule at the time, and I don't like it now. I think there are times when it works, and there are times when people are debating who to play for. That's now how international sport really works, does it? I thought his whole reason was to come get him over, get him back to a be union, and he plays. Australia. And he's gone, I know, I'm going to have a break, and I'll let you know. But that's not show where Wallaby Rugby is, that a player can slightly leave them in limbo. Yeah, because if they're flying, if they're a sprint box and you go to Razi, I might declare for someone else, what's he's going to be like? He'd be casted out. Yeah, no, the country would go. You're in your out, aren't you? Yeah, you're in your out. So is your place. Yeah, if you can go do that, go do that, that's fine. We'll be all right. The team will move on without you, but I don't know maybe with his, how well he's gone in the last couple of years, in the NRL, he's like, well, I can kind of do what I want. He's going to go and earn a load, but load the money. Oh, he's gone to Japan. It's such a shame. Whoever gets me, for the World Cup, gets me. Yeah, I'm with you, Jonesy. Like, he's played for Australia. How many times already? How many tests has he got? What have you? 11 caps. Okay. He's going to look. He's going to look. He's going to look. 11 caps already for Australia. I'd like to see him play for Australia, in the home World Cup. I thought it was the whole point. I don't know. He's only 20. He's only 26. So he probably feels, he's probably, he's probably top of the, he's top of the world at the minute, isn't he? He's just, but just won the Grand Final. He scored two. He's an edge. Everyone wants him. He's living on cloud nine. He's probably getting paid a lot of yen to get to Japan. But if you're less, less kiss in the Australian hierarchy, you've got to be on the phone to him, so let's come on. But you, this is a little bit of a problem with Wallaby rugby, though. You spoke to Will Skelton, really good champions, got preview pod. And this is, you know, I know that people have come out speaking about the England eligibility rule with not playing abroad. The moment players go abroad, I just think you know, Will Skelton, imagine they'd had Will Skelton regularly. You know, if England suddenly start picking players on top 14, they'll join up towards late. Wouldn't they look at that France New Zealand game in New Zealand that had no top 14 finalists? Like that's what. happens when you open the floodgates and people go and by having people playing abroad, you almost let them run the show a bit, don't you? - Yeah, I think the powers that be have got to be strong. I'd be like, "Listen, if you want a good play for Australia, come if not sweet, go and do your thing." - I just don't think they're in a position to do that. - That's the issue, isn't it? - You won't. - You can't beat there are some teams out there who are in a position to hold the power. - But we go to the England thing, and I keep hearing, you know, players and ex-players saying it again. Just, there's plenty teams to come back and play for a back in England. If you want to play for your country, if you really want to play for your country, represent your country, go and play where you're eligible to play, to be picked. I'm sick of hearing people say, "Oh, we should just let the lads go and play wherever." - Yeah, well, do you most have to play? - I'm slightly with the, say, 50 cap thing. - No, I don't agree with it. I don't, actually, I think the best players should be playing in England. We need the best prem. - There's not many lads that have 50 caps. - There's lots of guys that have 50 caps. - No way. - These days. - That is ridiculous. - That's not pleased anything I'm trivialising it is. - Like, really? - Really, like, really. - No, no, certainly, like, you're on four, nine. (laughing) - Where you answered it? - I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm pleased. - There's loads of lads. - No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm saying that they're, really because of the consistency of the performances from some certain players. There are a lot of 50 capers out there. These days, compared to 20, 30 years ago, number of test matches dissed at the other. They were just more, that's the reality. Okay, so 70. - Ah, I think, I think if you opened it up, they'd all go. - To 70 plus. - Why would you not go and get paid? - It made it three times as much. - But if we went through the lads on 70 plus caps right now, and what they're adding to the prem, we might not get very far. - Well, Jamie, Marrow, 40. - But they might not get very far to the lads that are, you would be in. - Gensh, Haru is picking in England team she. - It's an interesting one because, yeah, like, someone like Gensh, when he's been vocal about it, he's at the age where he would probably wants to go after the next world cup and experience France, that's a couple of reasons, which is fine. I think the argument is a compelling one that he makes. I don't think there are compelling arguments the other way. - Yeah. - They're probably, I think, a slightly stronger. But watch this space. Talking about watching this space. Spain's 2035. - Well, you shine up. (laughing) - They came out last week, the Spain, Argentina, and other South American sides, else South American country, countries, and Japan, other contenders, to host the World Cup in 2035. I actually spoke to the president of the Spanish Federation who spoke about the bid and the use of that. They've got real tight with La Liga, so all of these Bernabéu, New Can, Estaya, Bill Bell, San Memez. If you've been to one of the finals weekends, in 18 or 26, oh, that's not even the best stadium in Spain. - What's the 36th stadium? Metropolitan. - Is that in the long list? - It's ever looked. - It's gotta be. - Beautiful looking stadium. - Where do we vote? - Who does vote? Who does decide? - So it's not like-- - Oogs is probably on some shows. - Yeah, it'll be Oogs. So basically, it'll be Oogs. - With a question, isn't it? - Metropolitan Oogs on the list. - Perfect. - They've got a long list, which they're gonna whittle down to 14. They're gonna whittle down to 10. It includes the new camp, the San Memez, which have been credible for those Bill Bell weekends, the Bernabéu, the Metropolitan Oogs. - Oh, they're messiah and Valencia. - So our partner, Oogs, who does vote? - So Oogs and others. So do you remember for the 2023 World Cup, it was meant to go to South Africa? - Do you remember? - And then France did a load of lobbying, and we're basically like, we're gonna make one money, and everyone switched to France. So World Rugby, what they used to do was World Rugby would advise basically the other country, or the World Rugby countries, who would then make a call, but would really be urged to go on the recommendation from World Rugby. They've scrapped that now to avoid the horse trading. So it's just a World Rugby decision. So I think it's good as the South America would be, and as good as Japan was in 2019, Spain are the main contenders here for me, because they probably wanna bring it back to Europe after going to Australia in '27 and the USA in '31. So '35 is probably gonna be Europe. I would say it's more likely to be Europe than elsewhere. And I think when you look at the stadiums, you look at the infrastructure, you look at the sporting culture, the chat coming out of the federation about how Spain has been a sleeping giant, they've not moved forward for 40 years, they are talking a big game. They're like the growth that's hiding in plain sight. You know, Rugby, you know, that's as lit as its eyelids at America, and try to crack Germany, and try to crack China, and you're like, no, Spain, wicked sporting country, on the Six Nations doorstep. How about looking at that first, before looking in France would be the closest example, wouldn't it? - Yeah. - Why could they not replicate what France have got? - For a European bias, it's obviously brilliant. Just the things like weather, brilliant, even in October, like September October and November, still decent weather. The stadiums, I imagine them being full of rugby fans. I've just seen the burn about full of rugby fans. - And again, and a sleeping giant. - You might have had at least two more her jobs by the time we get there. - Nine years ago. - Jones has definitely been in for four years now, then. - Oh, that's a brilliant coming from the man with shiny white tea. - See, boy over there. - Oh, so, he's able to go do like that. So, he's catching strays from our listener, Jonathan, and then you'll have a nice little chat about Spain. He's like, oh, I've got a chance. - Sorry, yeah, yeah, he does do that. - Oh, too. - I'm just kicking. You're like, it's ten years, nine years away, I needed to put something in the time. - Oh, gone to college. - It is a long time ago, but nine years ago was 2017. I remember when they were talking about 27 World Cup, and he thought, oh, that's so far away. - Right. - I remember being in Tokyo, talking to Bill Sweeney about where the 27 World Cup would be, thinking, oh, it's too far down the track, and it's in 11 months' time. - Did he have an idea, then? - Yeah. - Yeah. - So, he said at that point, because it had been in Northern Hemisphere in 15, 19, and 23. He said it likely to be Southern Hemisphere in 17. - Oh, right, so it's really important. - So, they've got to really look at it and just plan. - Don't give me wrong, I think, in Argentina and other South American nations could be transformative. If you look at the infrastructure and the stadiums that are already there, there's a lot going for this fame bid, and I think they'll probably have their nose at the head of the moment. That's before we even talk about Japan. It spills a bit too recent, doesn't it, 2019? - Yeah, you can't go back to Japan. - In 2012. - Yeah, I did in France was a 12-year gap, but I felt that wasn't the 16-year gap. But, I don't think, I think, 60-year gap. - Nine years is a long time. Mate, you look good with the shaved head. Okay, Jonesy, I am not so sure. - No, this is the problem. - I know it is. - I thought I've got it. - You look like that comedian guy, not a little comedian guy with a show, who I was wearing as a suit. - Jasper Kerra. - No. (laughing) - What is he doing? - Why were you using this section of the podcast? - A proper chat about the old school. - I'm going to show you, because with a shaved head, he's going to look just like him. - But I don't have a shaved head, so he always wears a suit. - But can you imagine how he's wearing a shaved head? - Yeah, he's got a funny voice. Tom Allen. (laughing) - I don't know Tom Allen. (laughing) That's you, mate, when the lid's gone. Tom Allen. (laughing) - Well, I don't know, well, I don't actually. - But when you're in a pub and all you can do for better is just Google what people look like. - Tom Allen. (laughing) - Tom Allen, that's all right. - That's not too bad. - No, no, no, I'm just saying that might be. - Anyway, that would be a good going to rise to it. - Idea of what you could look like, I think it's fine. - Anyway, I'm not going to stoop to a level. When we're good chat about Spain, and you've just sat there thinking, "Oh, it's just a definite way." It's funny how we're going to lock down everyone's appearance off for 10 minutes. - Will we still even be here in a decade? - Well, if the robots haven't taken over, and everything seems to exist, - Well, it just take our tezlers over there, fly over there. - Yeah. - So we're talking about a World Cup in Spain that's nine years away. We might not be here. - But if all is still standing. - Yeah, okay. - Let's hope it is. - Okay. - Couple of points to finish. This is from KD. Hi, Chris, whilst I'm glad the women's lions have a pre-tour match is the announcement of the lions, the lions women are playing France. KD says it's very disappointing. It's on a Friday. It would have been an instant purchase for me, but as I have a young child, an evening game is less feasible. And it cuts out of fast number children from attending. Seeing the number of families who attend women's matches, I feel it's such a missed opportunity. Rant over, I hope it's a massive success. KD, I think that's a great point. 7/30 kick off on a Friday. I know it's going to be summer's evening, but yeah, that for me is a miss. Where is it? It's in Cardiff 7/30 Friday night before the tour. I'd be a nice long evening early summer, but I know exactly what she's saying there. - What about, could they shift that to like a little 6 p.m. kick off? - 6 p.m. - That work. - On a Friday night. - But then you're bringing in Friday and traffic and everything and travel and work. - I think I've got to be Friday night Saturday day. - I mean, the thought of taking my kids to a 7/30 kick off game on a Friday night is. - Anywhere. - It's a no for me, anywhere to watch anything. I'm like, no, really need to be in bed, brother. So yeah, I absolutely feel for it. - Yeah, it should be great, we'll be great, but that's a very good point. Two more bits, Friso, who's a listener from the Netherlands. Now, he said, Chris, if you really want to up your state game, salt it the night before, lead the stakes uncovered in the fridge. The seasoning slightly dries the exterior of the stakes, resulting in a nicer crust. Wipe any excess moisture before putting in the pan. - Yeah, always wipe the moisture, but. - Yeah, interesting. - So Friso makes a very. He also then says, he's in the Netherlands, him as mates have no legal way to watch the pram. Best bet be VPN plus HBO TNT. Be still in the UK account and HBO kicks people out with the VPN. That is also a valid point, Friso. So we have listener. and rugby fans in the Netherlands who don't have a way of legally watching the Prem. -Wow. -Yeah, we need to change that. -That needs to be looked at. And thank you very much for your steak and rice. Did you know that I actually mangled that reference about steak being too buttery? -I did hear this, yeah. -There's actually meant to be steaks to juicy lobsters to buttery. That's the kind of internet slowly going about. Complaining about too good a thing. But as I butter my steaks, I think that's where I got buttery from. -Yeah. -And I'm going to read this one out from Matt. She was a long time listener. I says, "Hi, guys, I hope you're well really 10 years of the pod. Listen to the very first one. Cannot believe it, how time has flown. Keep up the good work in my humblest of opinions. The best rugby pod out there. In other news, a dear friend, very much part of the rugby family, Colin and Wadiq, passed away Sunday the weekend. We coached an age groups together at Old Elaine's rugby club in Dullage. I'd really appreciate it if you could honour his memory with a shout-out. Old Elaine's is where people like Nick Easterbennabani and Thomas Flattie played their junior rugby. That is from Masha, so Masha, thank you so much for message and many, many condolences to you for your loss and to Colin and his friends and family. Yep, here. That is us, Ashley. Yes, I am up in Newcastle again on Friday. Maybe it is the night. Oh, let's hope so. Yeah. They are keeping you there, aren't they? It seems that way. So I really hope you get to sit this weekend. Where are you this weekend, Danny? TBC. TBC. Are you crafting this weekend or. Let's do a Saturday for me, Clive, yeah. OK. So, let's do Saturday. Well done. Big game. Big game against Northampton. Great game, actually. Gosh, get it. Hope for a sell-out. That's got to be a sell-out. 100%. If you're going to go to one game a year as a Leicester fan, you get a Leicester Northampton at Welford Road on a Saturday afternoon. Yeah, I'm there for that too. I have not seen myself get punched in the face for a bit, so. Oh, right, that'll be on the screen this weekend. That's that week, we're shooting. Anyway, it's time to wrap. Thanks, Leicester. Cheers, everyone. Great to see you. Thanks so much for being there. And we'll see you soon. Thanks for downloading Rugby Union Weekly. For more info, head to the BBC Sounds app. Sounds app. Sounds app. This week on The Interface, we tackle the question of, "Does AI feel pain?" The AI was describing the pain that it was in it said, "The signal is a whisper, a tremor, in the marrow of my being." Listen, I was an emo kid in the 2002. This is not that novel. It does, yeah, it sort of sounds like cure lyrics, you know? Plus, does anything actually go viral anymore? It's actually kind of blowing my mind. Join me, Jess Maddox, and me, Thomas Jermaine, for The Interface. Listen on BBC.com, or wherever you get your podcasts.