Postnatal Depletion Recovery + Prevention with Dr. Christine Maren

And we don't always take care of ourselves, or maybe we just have a lot of health challenges, because this modern day world puts a lot on our plate. Then we go into pregnancy, then we have a baby, and then postpartum or breastfeeding. And then we're just left really defeated. Welcome to the Core Connections Podcast. I'm your host, Eric Aziel. Having been in the fitness and wellness space for over 15 years, a published author and creator of the Core We Have program, I'm here to open up conversation around movement, mindset, and wellness, and get you thinking outside the box. When we approach life with an open mind and a willingness to see what we can learn about life around us and our own body, you can truly amaze yourself. We don't know, we don't know, and the best way to find out is to embrace where you are today and be open to exploring possibilities. And I'm really excited for today's episode to welcome Dr. Christine Marin to the Core Connections Podcast. She is a board certified physician and the founder of an innovative virtual functional medicine practice in Colorado, Michigan, and Texas. She's also the co-founders of Hey Mommy, a platform dedicated to helping women throughout the stages of motherhood. Dr. Marin was introduced to functional medicine after struggling with pregnancy complications and recurrent miscarriages. A functional medicine approach helped her address her own underlying health issues associated with gut infections, hypothyroidism, hormonal balance, and maltoxicity. Now a mother of three, she's devoted her professional life to helping other modern day moms optimize their health before pregnancy, thrive, postpartum, and get their life back. Dr. Marin is board certified by the American board of family medicine and is an institute for functional medicine certified practitioner. She is a compassionate clinical speaker and wellness advocate. She is married to a surgeon and together they balance rewarding careers with raising three beautiful children. So Dr. Christine Marin, her and I could talk all day long about so many things. Today specifically we are going to talk a little bit, we're going to talk about thyroid and postpartum wellness, but here's the thing, ladies, is even if you're not in a stage of your life for your having babies yet, or if you're in a stage of your life where you're like, yeah, my babies are having babies, here's the thing. Everything that we talk about today, I recommend all women need to hear because we talk about depletion and that depletion after having babies can linger for years and years and years if we don't do anything about it. The other reason I'm really big on prevention. So knowledge is power when we can learn this stuff before going into having another baby or before ever even having a first child, or maybe if you're someone who's like, I don't know if I'm ever going to have babies, like it's still wonderful and incredible information to have. So real quick, before we get into today's interview, I just wanted to read a couple quotes from a couple of the incredible women that are doing my core rehab program because I've been opening it. Every several weeks to start my next class for enrollment because I do a live call to get everyone started and off on that right track because I want you all to get the best results and we've added a lot more of the mindset to it over the last, I don't know, years so time goes so fast, right? But it's so incredibly powerful that I just felt so inspired that I wanted to read and share these with you, ladies. So this one from Justine R, she commented, "I completed Erica Zeele's core rehab program after having my son. I thought I had a strong core before since I was doing CrossFit with all the heavy lifting that come with it. Turns out I'm stronger now than I was. This program was the best gift that I could give myself. Having a baby is the most wonderful moment in a woman's life and it makes it even better feeling empowered with your body. Thank you, Justine. And I love this quote because she says so many incredible things in there and I think this is such a big message that I am recognizing for women that give yourself more credit and make yourself a priority. It doesn't have to take a lot of time. And honestly, and this is where the mindset stuff comes in, having sometimes making those little shifts in the mindset can be where a lot of the magic happens. It's super, super amazing. Okay, and I want to read this other quote from Donna R. She had responded to one of our posts about working out and having your kids around with you because we get a lot of moms at post pictures. They're like, they're little toddlers working out with them. It's so, so cute and I'm a big advocate for, yes, there's times where it's like, yes, you just need your time and quiet by yourself. But to also work out in front of your little ones, it's also super magical because they see you moving and before you know it, they'll start wanting to join you in on it sometimes. It means they're going to crawl on you. Sometimes it means they're just going to do it next to you and look so cute while they do it, right? So she says, I think this has been something about like what's something you might wish. She's like, that I wouldn't be interrupted so much by my kiddos during a workout. But at least they join in sometimes but mostly just climb all over under me, right? Just super cute. I'm glad that they seem seeing me making time to make my health a priority. They have seen me grow stronger because of it. I used to not be able to play with them actively but now I can because of your program, Corbihab, which I love so grateful for your programs. Thank you Donna for sharing that. Like honestly, like those means so much to me. That's why you know, I created this program along with everything else that I create. It is truly because I just so firmly believe like this is what I'm supposed to be doing, right? This message needs to be shared. I want to teach each and every one of you how to be empowered, how to be more confident, right? And just remember that like I say in my intro, like where you are today is where you're supposed to be. So remembering to be kind to yourself, take the judgment out of it because we're all on this journey of learning about ourselves, right? And so just be where you are, embrace it and that's okay, right? So anyway, you can find the link about Corbihab on my website, ericazeal.com. Please feel free. Ladies to reach out to me on Instagram at ericazeal. If you have any questions about anything, you have suggestions about, you know, people you love for me to interview here on my core connections podcast. So thank you all. I'm just super grateful for each and every one of you. It's gonna be a great episode to, you know, text this to a friend when you get done listening to it. So I'm really, really excited now to welcome Dr. Christine Marin. We're going to get in and talk a lot about health in the postpartum and beyond phase of life. But I want to let everyone know that a lot of what I know we're going to talk about today really is really important for women's health in general. So even if it's been 20 years since you've had a baby or you've never had a baby. So I'm going to highly recommend that you tune in this entire episode. So welcome, Christine. Thanks. Thanks for having me. So can you start out by just sharing with everyone a little bit more about your specialty and what you do? Yeah. So I am a DO, which is a doctor of osteopathic medicine. And I did my training through the Institute for Functional Medicine, which means I am IFM CP. So I have a functional medicine practice where I see patients virtually in Colorado, Texas, and Michigan. Functional medicine in short is sort of like root cause medicine. My goal is always to sort of get to the root of what's going on so that we can find better solutions. And I work with a lot of women who want to get pregnant. And so they're looking to better their fertility and improve their pre-conception health so that they can do better postpartum. And then of course I work with them in the postpartum, time frame, and help them to thrive in that stage of life. I've had three kids and gone through multiple miscarriages. So it's something I'm really passionate about. So I think one of the biggest things you hit on there was that like to thrive after having babies. And I think that is something that as women who've had I've had three babies as well that I feel like someone are not thriving. So can you speak to like what are some of those common things you see? And again, whether it's soon postpartum or even stuff that's lingering around you. Yeah, years, too, right? I mean, it's like to mommy hood. Like it goes for years sometimes decades. I mean, I obviously I would work with women who are moms and they have, you know, 10 year olds or maybe kids in college. But you know, after pregnancy, a lot of things can get triggered with us. Auto-immunity is one. I mean, a lot of us go through things like postpartum depression or postpartum thyroid issues. And just in general, the whole process of getting pregnant, going through labor, and then breastfeeding a kid and all of the, you know, demands that come with all of that and sleep deprivation and the reason raising our children are health often takes this sort of backseat to taking care of our kids. And so, you know, it just builds up and it's additive, right? So like the more kids you have, I think the more depleted you can become. And I mean, it just ultimately, I think, affects a lot of women's health. So I've seen research out there and just verify this form if you could. That's like with each baby, we get depleted, but more than anything, it's our brain that really becomes depleted. I've read like studies where like, it's that third baby. Are you looking at someone? I don't know. I don't remember. It's been a, it's been years because I've spoken to this for years. And maybe, and I know more recently, we've heard a lot more about calling and phosphididecoline, which are essentially, which I know when I was having babies, I had a doctor that put me on like a low dose of it, but I didn't really understand why. So it's very interesting now, because I've had Sarah Morgan on, and she's talked about the phosphididecoline itself, so which is a great episode, so I'll link to that. That's a great one to understand more about it. But if you want to speak to it briefly, explain a little bit of it. Sarah and I are really good friends, and I, I love calling, as Sarah, Sarah talks a lot about mommy branch, she's a supplement called mommy brain, that's really good from vitamin IQ. And yeah, I mean, our calling, I think what you're referring to is calling, because it's additive and over time we get depleted more and more and more and more. And there's a lot of factors that can influence that. Diet, of course, is one of them. We get calling primarily through animal food, so a gilken liver or organ meats, which a lot of people don't eat a ton of. And we have a lot higher calling demands through pregnancy and breastfeeding. It's concentrated in the amniotic fluid and in our breast milk. And so the more babies we have, the more choline gets depleted. It is a big deal when it comes to things like methylation and liver health actually, sleep and REM sleep, neurotransmitter function like acetylcholine. So yeah, it's, it's, it's an important one. So from a choline perspective, I mean, because I know you said like eggs, which is fine, but honestly, how many eggs a day would you have to eat to get enough choline, especially if you're looking at like, oh gosh, I've had three. I mean, I have a lot of women, Christine, that have, doing my programs, I've had six, seven, eight, babies. And I'm just like, they are super moms. Like, that's amazing, right? And I just also think of like, wow, your body has become so depleted. And OBs are not telling moms, I mean, I'd be at to hear of anyone come back to me and say, oh yeah, my OB told me I should say take extra choline. So, you know, what do you recommend from that? And like a liver and there's controversy on should we actually be even eating liver? Because if animal liver is the filter for all the crap, then should we actually be, I don't want to totally steer us off path here. But no, I have to be eating liver. I've had the same questions. Yes, all these things, these are all good questions. So, choline, so in terms of like how many eggs do we really need to eat? I don't have the numbers in the program. Good, like large size egg yolk has me 200 milligrams of choline. So we probably need about six egg yolks a day to maintain that. So if women are eating a lot of eggs and tolerate them well, and they should be good, you know, high quality pasture eggs, great. But some of us have genetic SNPs. So SNP is like a polymorphism in our gene. It's not like a defect. It's just kind of like something that helps us understand that we might need more of a certain nutrient. So in the perspective of choline, that SNP is called PEMT. Some of your listeners might be familiar with MTHR. So PEMT is sort of like that. And when we have a PEMT SNP, we need more choline. So that person might need, I don't know, four or five egg yolks. I don't know. Don't quote me on that because I don't know exactly how many, you know, each individual is going to need. But we don't get enough of it in our prenatals. Like very few prenatals even have any choline in them. And then some have a little bit, like 70 milligrams of choline, but it's not enough. We need a lot of choline in our prenatal. So more recently, some of the more sophisticated formulations have them in there, but they're pretty hard to find. I mean, you know, of course, that's what I recommend to my patients. But like if somebody goes and buys a prenatal off the shelf, I can almost guarantee you it doesn't have enough choline. The American Medical Association has changed that recommendation recently. So what is the minimum recommendation for choline, you know, for a prenatal or for, you mean like during pregnancy? Well, during pregnancy. But also in that postpartum phase, right? So if we haven't been taking choline and even if like you've got a mom listening that's like, oh my youngest is like 10. And so like can I, can I still take it, you know, and have it be official? Right. I started taking more, more choline with probably two years ago. And so my youngest is eight, right? And I don't know that I was doing probably more of the DHA, which I know is beneficial to. And there's a lot of things that I think definitely everyone understanding like the choline is a big thing. Can you explain like, I guess the why behind the choline a little bit. Yeah. So. And numbers wise, it's like somewhere between 550 to 930 milligrams, kind of depending on the person. If you're really depleted, I'd go with like 930, especially if you're postpartum, you know, five years. And you're like, oh, my brain fog like or my mommy brain ever went away. I'm going to try it. Then I would usually go with higher doses. Sometimes when you use higher doses of things, people don't always do well. So consult with your doctor and, you know, and see. But I'm sorry. What was your question? I need more choline. No, that's okay. I just I wanted you to say those bigger numbers. Why choline. And you want to know what choline is important. Yeah, exactly. So when you are in the preconception timeframe, it's probably just as important as folate for prevention of neural tube defects. Because it's a really big deal when we talk about one carbon metabolism or methylation. So for people who know what methylation is, we know methyl folates a big deal, but choline is also a big deal for that. So choline is also really important in pregnancy. As I mentioned before, it's concentrated in the amiotic fluid. So the second highest surgical indication during pregnancy is colisestectomy, your gallbladder. So the reason part of the reason for liver and gallbladder issues during pregnancy is probably related to choline depletion. So anytime I'm talking to a patient and really going through history and she tells me she had a little bit of liver issues during pregnancy or she had gallbladder text during pregnancy or something like that. I mean, I think of choline because choline is a building block for bile. So bile is what we make in the liver eject from the gallbladder. So it's important for digestion in that way. It's also a big deal with REM sleep and mood and memory because of acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter. I'm sure there's some other reasons I'm forgetting. Those are all big ones though, right? Those are really important, right? Just if you think, okay, if I were to just add some choline into my diet, you could probably shift a lot of symptoms that are going on because your body's been sort of pleated. So it's like you've kind of gone into survival mode after having babies. So what are some other things that you see? I know we want to talk about thyroid. I don't know if it's a good time to. Yeah, I haven't been in talk. I have so many women listening that have autoimmune. And it's like, yes, we have babies and it's like autoimmune happens. And I know there's a lot of Hashimoto. So it's kind of all tight in. So I'm going to let you start with where you feel like it's the best place to start. Yeah, big conversation around all of this. Let's talk about thyroid. And then we'll talk about autoimmune stuff. I mean, just the whole idea of us, you know, we're already maxed out many of us before we even get pregnant, right? Really busy, fast-paced, we're earning jobs, whatever. And we don't always take care of ourselves or maybe we just have a lot of health challenges because this modern day world puts a lot on our plate. Then we go into pregnancy, then we have a baby and then postpartum or breastfeeding. And we're just left really depleted. There's a lot of factors that go into that, but nutrient depletion is one of them. So if we're talking about thyroid function, there's a big interplay between this postpartum depletion and then having a thyroid issue. I see a lot of people who have thyroid issues postpartum that go undiagnosed. And they're like, oh, yeah, with, you know, they couldn't lose weight or they had a ton of anxiety. And it can go a couple different ways. You can have a lot of different thyroid issues after you have a baby. So one of them is just suboptimal thyroid function or problems with conversion. And so if you're, if you don't have enough of certain nutrients, which support thyroid function, like iodine, slineum, zinc, some of the B vitamins, vitamin A, all of those are really important for optimal thyroid function. Sometimes we don't have enough of those. So our thyroid isn't performing as well. Also, sometimes we under convert between T4 to T3. And we make a lot of something called reverse T3. So basically like we make a lot of the break. We don't make enough of the gas. And that under conversion can happen postpartum just because of inflammation, stress, lack of sleep, whatever it might be. It's sort of like our evolutionary process to say like, hey, put the breaks down and rest, but nobody's resting. Right. They're taking care of their kids. They don't have a tribe. Their mom isn't over helping them, you know, whatever it might be, it's not easy. And we don't have time to rest. So some people have that under conversion issue. What I look for in thyroid life. is a T3 that's like in the lower range. The range can be like 2.2 to like 4. If your free T3 is in the 2s, that feels terrible. I've been there. It's not good. You feel functionally hypothyroid, but you're not gonna be diagnosed hypothyroid by most doctors because they're just looking at a TSH and a T4. So that would be like that suboptimal thyroid function or poor conversion. So the other issue that can happen is postpartum thyroiditis. So for the woman who's like maybe four months postpartum and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so anxious. Like there's a lot of postpartum anxiety going on, which is very common, right? And maybe she's lost a ton of weight and just feels like really rubbed up and can't sleep. And then all of a sudden everything goes, "Juh." That's often postpartum thyroiditis. In the initial stages, they get hypothyroid and then they'll get hypothyroid. And often it goes undetected because we're postpartum. There's a lot of reasons to feel anxious or tired or whatever it might be. So postpartum thyroiditis is an autoimmune like condition. It is not the same as Hashimoto's. Hashimoto's is autoimmune thyroiditis that is caused by a preexisting autoimmune condition called Hashimoto's where we attack the immune system. They're hard to differentiate and sometimes you can't. You know, it's like maybe you didn't know that she had antibodies before she got pregnant. So it's a little tricky and nuanced, but essentially Hashimoto's can get turned on postpartum as all autoimmune conditions can. We know that autoimmune conditions can be really triggered by pregnancy. And so if a woman tells me she's pregnant and like she just never got back to herself postpartum, I'm always looking at thyroid antibodies. So they're called thyroid proxies and thyroid glowylin. But over time, that autoimmune destruction of the thyroid gland creates the thyroid that's not functioning as well. - No matter where you are in your mother's journey, I'm here to help support you. Pregnant or preparing for pregnancy, my knocked up fitness program can help you stay strong, comfortable and prepare for birth and an easier postpartum recovery. Visit knockedupfitness.com to learn more. Already postpartum or beyond or well beyond those baby years. It's never too late, ladies. If you're dealing with pain, leaking or diastas recti, my core rehab program has helped thousands of women just like you help strengthen their pelvic floor and deep core effectively, keyword their ladies effectively and get back to living the active pain-free life that you desire. Head on over to corerehabprogram.com to learn more. So whether you're expecting or newly postpartum or 20, 30 years after having those babies, I've got you covered. So head on over to knockedupfitness.com or corerehabprogram.com to learn more. - So with all of this, I'm getting like, obviously it's super important to make sure we're getting the right testing done 'cause I know with standard medical tests, they're not looking at a big enough span of numbers to say like, hey, these are early signs and the earlier we can catch things. And so I'm always like, you've got to be your best advocate. Like if you're into what I'm saying is telling you like some things off, right? Then it's time to go find a new doctor, find a functional med doctor, right? Someone like understands these deeper levels of things. And then as far as like the autoimmune goes, like that can all be reversed, correct? Especially again, the sooner we catch it, the better. So the sooner you catch it, the better for sure. You're totally right. And I say with autoimmunity, we can put it into remission but we can't really reverse it. So the thing that I see go untreated, so Hashimoto's like the conventional approach, if you are diagnosed with Hashimoto's, I mean usually people are like, that's it. You have Hashimoto's, that's the end. Like there's nothing else really you can do for that. But with an autoimmune condition, our approach and functional medicine is very different. Yeah, so you're totally right. Like you got to catch it early. So it cut out really quick there, but you were saying you said gut, correct? I just want to double check. You were saying a lot of it's from the guts. So we, I mean, this comes up in so many conversations. It's like gut and stress, right? Like lifestyle things really kind of facts. And so the sooner that we can start to recognize these things and take our health into our own hands and work with the right doctors, the sooner that we can, like you said. So if we can't actually quote reverse it, we can get it to where a woman can function in life normal and not have autoimmune symptoms. Yeah, totally, totally. Yes. And then in that case, it's like it ebbs and floats, right? Health is not linear. Sometimes we have flares, like stress happens, infections happen, whatever. But, but you know, so it's something to keep an eye on for sure. But yeah, you can get those antibodies to go away. So with women, I know you mentioned like anxiety, right? Which I think is becoming just a more prevalent, either we're talking about it more or there is becoming more of it. You know, that women are experiencing more anxiety just in general. But what about on the side of like, when we say like postpartum depression, which again, I'd love you to speak to that a little bit 'cause I know for me, I probably dealt with it the opposite where like it's not so sadness, it almost was like more anger. I had like no patience. I mean, just you almost feel like you're like, who is this person in this body? And mine, it completely went away after I quit nursing my daughter. And it was like all of a sudden, you know, I think it was probably about two months 'cause it takes time for those hormones to leave your body. It was like all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh, I felt like I just got me back, right? And so I think so many women do feel like that, but they don't know what to do about it. So is that a little bit of thyroid stuff going on or depletion or just an imbalance in hormones or like a whole thing, right? It's kind of all connected. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, they're separate, like they're separate things, right? Postpartum depletion, thyroid issues, postpartum depression, they're all separate things with like a whole lot of overlap. And you could have them all, right? Like one doesn't exclude the other. It probably perpetuates the other, right? So postpartum depletion, I think when somebody has postpartum depression, obviously it's a very real thing, but I generally think of depression or mood symptoms as symptoms, not as a disease, you know? So it's like yes, it's a diagnosis, but it's not like, well, but why do you have it? And so it's probably related to the postpartum depletion. I mean, obviously there's like a component for most people of like social isolation and really changing your role in life. And then also thyroid, like you gotta check your thyroid if you have postpartum depression. I always think that's a really big question. Like is it postpartum depression or is it hypothyroidism? 'Cause certain people are more at risk of mood issues from thyroid, so it's kind of going back to the genetic stuff. - Yeah. - But yeah, certain people will have more mood-based symptoms. - So I think this is so important to understand, 'cause we've never talked about this on here. And understanding that our thyroid can really play a role in how we feel. So I wonder if I was having some thyroid stuff going on, which also in your breastfeeding, I would assume maybe those hormones can also play a role in thyroid function. Yes, maybe. - I don't know, not like a direct role. I mean, I'm sure there's something like there, but I mean, sex hormone binding glibulence sort of the big one you think about during pregnancy, but depending on, it depends. If you have a high sex hormone binding glibuline, postpartum, which you may, especially if there's estrogen dominance, we tend to make more sex hormone binding glibuline, that's SHBG. So if you have a lot of SHBG, it decreases your bioavailable hormone. So your bioavailable free T4 or free T3 might be lower. So there might be that interplay, and then also the nutrient one, because if you have a lot of nutrient demand that's going to your breast milk and not in the amount of thyroid function. - Right, and then you're sleep deprived. So when you, - Oh yeah, totally. - When you're softener, there's a multitude of things that happen, right? - Yeah. - You, you one you stop having the depletion just being sucked out of you, right? And then you start sleeping a little bit more because you're not nursing or whatever that might look like. Some women are more scheduled with that than others. I probably was not scheduled at all, and I remember that was the year ago. I forgot it all. But, and then, and then you do get a shift in hormones, and like so it's kind of a little bit of those, those couple of things could actually help you to start feeling better. But, - Yeah. - Some women that definitely don't feel better after, what, how long do you wanna give it after you say quit breastfeeding? If symptoms are still there, that you're like, "You've gotta go and get subtested." - I mean, everybody, like, I think everybody who's postpartum needs to be tested, you know? Like, we all have depletion, we just need to figure out what it is. And you jog my memory leg. When somebody's breastfeeding, the way it might affect thyroid is a high reverse T3. - Okay. - If they have all these demands going the other way, they're not getting, especially if you're not getting enough calories, you'll make enough too much reverse T3, so you're like, slam on the brakes. - So would that be a sign if like, you don't, you have a hard time having enough milk supply? - Oh, thyroid is huge. - That would, yeah. If you're like, milk supply drops off, I always think about thyroid. - Oh, interesting. Oh, this is such good stuff. Thank you. So, okay, so here's a question, because I get a lot of women that will ask, well, how late, like, I had, We talked about the Dutch tests a couple weeks ago, right? And Dr. Kerry Jones on talking about that. - She's so good. - I love the Dutch test. I've done it mostly in myself. And so I get women that, like, you know, it's when you're breastfeeding and after pregnancy, because there's so much shifting happening. Like, how long do you, I know you're just like testing, but when can you, when should you be testing for this stuff? Because stuff is shifting so rapidly after you have a baby. And, right? It's like a year. - I mean, when it comes to thyroid, I think everybody should have a full thyroid panel for a six weeks postpartum. - Okay. - I think postpartum care in our country is pretty abysmal. And it's not the OB's fault. I mean, the ACOG, American College of Obstetrics and Genicology, has like a new position statement on postpartum care. It's just implementing that care. That's somewhat difficult because insurance companies don't reimburse for it and they can't work for free. And, you know, it's like, how do we create a different culture where we support women postpartum? And they have better postpartum care. I do think telemedicine is now becoming more accessible. Like, I get to see people virtually when they're like nursing their baby from home. They don't need to like drag the whole family across town for six hours, right? So, I think telemedicine and virtual care will probably play a role, hopefully with this, but see somebody postpartum. And, you know, it's traditionally like, like my postpartum visit was literally like 10 minutes, just to make sure I was still alive, you know? Like, I'm good, but I'm not good, you know? So, there's a lot. And I think that women need more support and more help. It's just a question of like, who's gonna fill that role? And I think at this point, I would just say, you know, like either your OB/GYN or your primary care doctor, or if you work with a doctor like me, who's, you know, a functional medicine trained doctor, I think that would be ideal because they're just a little bit more like, detail oriented about thyroid and all of that. But I do really strongly believe every woman postpartum should have a full thyroid lab with thyroid antibodies checked. And I'm gonna say like six weeks is generally when I do that. - Great time. - Yeah, I think that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So, once we get beyond the breastfeeding stage, and you know, you've got couple kids, and you've gone off with life and you're working and running kids around activities, and your youngest is like 10 or whatever, right? So, what do we do in that kind of beyond the, you know, first year of postpartum? 'Cause we're so postpartum, and I like to always preach this. And like women think they're not postpartum after six months. Usually is kind of the answer I get. And I'm like, once you've had a baby, you're always postpartum, and we have got to address the lingering things that are going on with their body from pregnancy, postpartum, breastfeeding, exhaustion, like you name it, because it only is going to get worse if they don't do something about it. So, when we're talking about thyroid, how often do you recommend that women test thyroid? And do you recommend thyroid antibodies every time they test thyroid? It depends. So, for somebody who has Hashimoto's, I like to check in on those antibodies like every three months. I mean, if they're on stable medication, maybe every six months or something, but when I'm working with patients, and maybe I identify, like there's a lot of women I work with who are, you know, they have like a six-year-old at home, and they're like, I don't know, something's just not right. I don't know what it is, but something's just not right. And we find thyroid antibodies. Like, I can't even tell you how many times that's happened. And they had no idea they had Hashimoto's, and their TSH is actually still pretty normal. So, you know, it's Hashimoto's and we work on that. But for them, it's like, yeah, about every three months, I'll check those antibodies. That is, you're gonna hear different things from different people, because, you know, even I've been at a conference before with an integrative sort of instructor who said, why check them again? But I totally see them come down. Like, that's how I know that I'm doing the right thing is if those antibodies are downward trending, you know? If they're not downward trending, we need to figure out like, what is the root cause for the Hashimoto's that's not being addressed? So, I think ideally women should have a thyroid panel every year just with their like, you know, yearly blood work. Like a CBC and a CMT looking at like kidney and liver function because it's so prevalent. Do you have, I mean, after this call, could I get like, the exact like ranges and tests and all that, we could put it in the show notes. So, everyone can be like, this is the things that you can go ask your primary care doctor to order for you. And I like how you said earlier with telemedicine. Like, I think it's great. I do that with my nose, well, as you can just have phone call conversations a lot of times and it saves you so much time. You don't have to go anywhere and then they order your lab work and all you gotta do is go in and get it lab, you know, lab work done and then it's like easy, easy. So, I think me to start asking for that stuff, you know, so she wants to go out of all this. Totally. So, but no, I think that this is stuff that women are more familiar with, but we still I think have a lot of questions of like, when should we be testing and what exactly should we be testing? Because if you go to a traditional medical doctor, they're looking at really smaller ranges and they're not testing for as many. So. Yeah, and I'll say too, timing is kind of a big deal with thyroid. So, for people who are on thyroid medication, like somebody who's on armor or like a natural desiccated thyroid, I like to have those labs drawn four to six hours after they take their medication. That's the only way we really understand their T3. So, for those of you on a thyroid medication, if you're on like a T4 only, like believe it our oxen or some thread, I'll just do the labs before they take that medication for a single morning. But for people on a T3, I want to see the lab drawn after the medication is given. No, that's really good advice. I hope you can put that back. Thank you. Okay, so what else beyond thyroid and? Yeah, so autoimmune stuff. Yeah, autoimmune. Did we dive into the Hashimoto's enough? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I think the biggest thing out of that right is like testing. I think that's a good place to start. Mm-hmm. So, are there other autoimmune things that you're seeing? I know Hashimoto's is the big one. That's what I do. Hashimoto's is like, yeah, probably the most common. But yeah, for sure, there's lots of other autoimmune stuff, right? Like people could have, I mean, all the autoimmune issues, there's a big spectrum. Hashimoto's and show grins are not fun, but they're less severe, right? And then multiple sclerosis. And maybe all sorts of colitis and Crohn's disease. And I mean, there's a lot of different autoimmune diseases. You know, rheumatoid arthritis. I mean, all of those things can pop up postpartum, but the one that's most common is Hashimoto's. So with all those other ones that you listed is, like as far, I know we don't want to go to each of them, but from a working to decrease the symptoms, we can do that with a lot of lifestyle stuff, checking to make sure regular, you know, our list of labs is coming in normal or what is that feedback on that, right? What are we eating? How are we moving our body? And how are we sleeping? Those are really big key things. I find sleep is a really big one. I think that we're so depleted on sleep I've worked on my sleep a lot. These last couple of years, a track of my aura ring, which is, it was very eye-opening to me. It's interesting when you can start to track what you do in the evening, how it relates to your quality of sleep. Like if I go to sleep 15 minutes later, then what it like says is my ideal time, I just don't get as high of a score and then I'm like, I didn't get as good of sleep last night. Like you can feel it even before I look at it. I can tell you like what my number is now. It's crazy because you start to make these connections. But as far as like some of those autoimmune, like what's your best advice on? Yeah, so in general, you can help your antibodies. That's my best advice is don't accept. I mean, you will have an autoimmune disease. So I have autoimmune disease. So many women have autoimmune disease. It's just, it's kind of not if, but when for some people, you know? So, I mean, not like doomsday, but it's just like unfortunately, our environment is set us up for that. So there is a triad with autoimmune disease. So three things. So number one, there's a genetic predisposition. So, you know, there's not a ton we can change with that. I mean, we say genes load the gun, environment pulls the trigger. So that's why two people with the same genetics can present very differently. So then number two is environment. Environment might be something like some mold exposure that somebody's had. That's triggered something. A big stress or loss they've had. It could even be certain foods like maybe gluten or something if they're gluten sensitive. That's gonna also affect gut permeability, which we'll talk about in a second. But for many years, we've accepted like the conventional paradigm, paradigm is that genetics and environment sort of play a role in that. But I think that environment's piece is under-addressed many times. But then the third kind of newer approach and the approach we take in functional medicine is gut health. And so there's a lot of research that links zonulin. It's a protein that's with certain gut bacteria and with gluten. So that's when somebody has an autoimmune disease, I pretty much always recommend a gluten-free diet because of the research that links zonulin to, well, that links gluten to zonulin and increased intestinal permeability. And then I look for gut infections. So things like vector overgrowth or fungal or candida overgrowth, parasites, I mean, all of that can be a big setup for gut. So yes, when somebody has an autoimmune disease and usually focused on their gut, Yeah, gut. Always 'cause back to the gut. (laughs) After we fix and clean up that gut, which again, you can do so much with diet. And I'm a huge, I mean, I've been gluten free for long, long, long time, many years. We are gluten free in my house, and I've helped so many people get off of it. And it's always, you know, in the beginning, I've seen people that are like, how could you, how do you do it? It's so hard. And it's like, you just have to take that first baby step and not try to be perfect with it. And the more you just start to do it, it becomes part of your life. And then you start to realize how good you can feel 'cause I think there's so many women out there that don't know how good they could feel because it's gotten to a place where you just kind of, they'll tire it all the time, but you learn how to push and push and push. And we're seeing so many health things at a much, much, much younger age. And with what I teach with like movement, I see so many things in the physical aspect of the body, but I know it's not just physical, it's because we've got increase in inflammation and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, totally. It's kind of, I don't know, it's just one of those things where I feel like we all can do things to improve upon it, but it's hard 'cause there's so much in society and the food system and all that, that's kind of like pushing against us. So we have to like work that much harder to weed through all of that. - Yeah. - And like you said at the beginning, we really have to be our own advocate. Like we're in, I feel like we have to be really like in the driver's seat with our health, but find somebody who we can team with to like help figure stuff out. I mean, that's the other side is like, some people will come and see me after they've been like on a super duper elimination diet for three years. And like, you know, they kind of throw in the towel 'cause they're like, I don't know what else to do. And it's because they haven't addressed the underlying gut issues usually. - Yeah. - And then we can just put ourselves to it. Like as you know, there's mold issues and like all sorts of environmental stuff that could be at play too. - Yeah. - So what else do you see commonly in our, we could just say moms, right? - Yeah. - Well, that's basically what it is from a depletion perspective besides what we've already talked about. Like what else do you see is pretty common? - I mean, what about low libido? Like, oh yeah, let's talk about it. - It's not the same thing. - It's not something that's not some libido, right? So I think that's where a Dutch test can be really helpful because it's like, what is going on with our hormones? And I think of libido as a symptom sort of like mood. You know, it's like, if we don't have a great libido, then why is that like our body doesn't want to necessarily procreate if we're not in a good healthy spot? So I think it's just sort of a symptom of like underlying issues. It can obviously be really related to hormone imbalances. So probably when you talk to carry about the Dutch test, she addressed maybe some of this. But you know, like looking at your testosterone levels and looking at your progesterone to estrogen ratios basically, to people who don't have enough progesterone often have an issue with low libido. - Yeah, I think low progesterone is so common. - Oh yeah. - So what do you recommend with for women that do have low progesterone? Do you usually use chase tree or vi-tex? - Okay. - I mean, obviously the lifestyle stuff too, like stress and meditation and you know, all that is a big deal, but yeah, I like to, I mean, in terms of supplements, I'll use chase tree or vi-tex. Sometimes I'll use topical progesterone and in some women I'll use oral progesterone. - Your wellness journey doesn't stop at movement. It includes nourishing your body with quality supplements too. My core athletic align offers the supplements I personally use to support brain health, boost energy and overall vitality. These are products I trust for myself and my family. Visit ericaziel.com/shop and use code podcast15 to save 15% off your entire order. That's podcast15 for 15% off at ericaziel.com/shop. Let's support your body from the inside out. - Do you find that most women with just the supplements edition that that helps them quite a bit? - Yeah, I mean, some for some women, you know, it depends on the age range, you know, but in our age range, yeah, supplementation will help. But I think it can be other things that play too. So often it's like too much estrogen in relationship to progesterone, so you have to boost progesterone but also help to detoxify some of the estrogen. So you can use other supplements to help with that. Like dim and calcium de-glucrate. You just have to be really careful with those. Like I always like to have labs before I use those because you don't want to have to complete your estrogen too much. - Right. - But a lot of women have too much estrogen on board because there's, you know, estrogen and other sorts of environmental influences. - Yeah, the estrogen was so interesting. Like I discovered, and maybe you can speak more to this is that we have so much more estrogen, like obviously inner female organs are uterus, and which makes sense, right? When you typically think of, and this is just my perspective, and I would have a note about the body all these years, is like when you think of estrogen dominance, you tend to think of, you know, women that have more weight around their midsection, right? That's kind of more of that classic, like they've got too much estrogen, but for women that don't, you can still have too much estrogen and it's coming from because you're not detoxifying, and it's just like hanging out in your uterus, basically, which can then lead to like symptoms of like cloddy periods and heavy periods, because that's a big sign, right? Of too much estrogen. Yeah, so when I think of too much estrogen, I think of someone who has really heavy or painful periods, like your period's not supposed to be painful. It's not supposed to keep you home from work, right? So somebody who has like really heavy or painful periods, somebody who has PMS, some breast tenderness, sometimes people have like gross like fibroids. All of that is usually like too much estrogen. Some mood also is involved here, and then with too little progesterone, I think about like sleep issues, slow libido, some anxiety, and then the imbalance just, you know, once you can like get them more like, you know, balanced, it just feels better. And then cycles are more normal and people start to normalize. So do you find kind of certainly back to where we kind of started our conversation with when a woman's able to get her cooling sores boosted up? Do you find that that can positively affect her hormones? And I would think her mood too, right? 'Cause it's affecting the brain. - Yeah, so sure. - Her mood, hormones. How would it, I mean, it helps with liver. So yeah, probably it's sort of indirect, but when I think about your estrogen detoxification, it's phase one, two, three. The phase one is in the liver. Phase two is through methylation using a gene called COMT. And then phase three is basically in your gut. So for women who are constipated, that could be a big issue back to gut health, right? But yeah, I think coldly will probably help the liver, which will help estrogen detoxification. Yeah, but like you said, if our gut is backed up, then we've got some issues. 'Cause we're just stacking the estrogen as well as other toxins and things in the body. So can you speak to that? I think a lot of women deal with the constipation, what's your initial kind of like to get that moving? And I'm talking women who eat generally pretty healthy. - Yeah. - I've gluten free or not, but I would say in general, women that listen are, you know, they eat pretty healthy, right? - Yeah. - It's perfect. - No, but none of us are perfect. So what's your first step to like, 'cause the constipation thing is a real thing, 'cause you should go like two or three times a day, right? - Yeah. - Almost every meal that you eat, or if you feel bloated a lot, right? Those are big symptoms of, I know, if you're bloated a lot and you see about, that's like bacteria overgrowth, that's a big one. - Yeah. - So that is, if somebody's constipated and it's pretty severe, that's when I look for methane predominant seabull. Sometimes there can be other gut infections causing things like that, like fungal overgrowth. But say generally with like fungal dysbiosis, I see more loose stools, but it could go either way. So that and then food sensitivity. So like an elimination diet. And then just like magnesium's a big deal too. So we need enough magnesium. There's also our gut has a nervous system. So we have to think in tariff nervous system, thyroid. We go back to thyroid. Like if somebody's constipated, a thyroid, like hypothyroidism is, we know hypothyroidism causes constipation. Like everybody knows that, right? But it's often just kind of overlooked, or maybe there's suboptimal thyroid function or poor conversion and the T3 doesn't look good. So we just have to think about that gut motility. So there's a lot of factors there, but I mean, like you mentioned, SIBO and gut infections, interac nervous system and like that sympathetic, parasympathetic balance. So there's our nervous system. Parasympathetic is rest and digest. So sort of tending to that, making sure digestive enzyme function is good. So some of us have issues like with pancreatic insufficiency. We don't make enough digestive enzymes. Everything gets slowed down. What do you recommend for that? Because I know there's a lot of natural things like itibitters. There's one other one that I do, and I'm totally don't know what it is, but it's herbal. - Oh, it's bile, mate. - No. What do you think of Oxfile? Because I've kind of heard both sides of that. We're like, it can be helpful. And I've also heard, maybe you shouldn't take it. - No, I mean, it depends. I don't use it in everybody, but for people who've had their gallbladder taken out, I recommend it with me. - Okay. - So I use Oxfile often. I'm looking on my desk to see if I like have any of these. Did I just events I'm sitting around? I'm a fan of Digestive enzymes and also a So it's especially, I said, so HCL especially if you're going to eat meat. Correct. Yeah. And it's like, and not everybody needs it, you know, like some people don't need it. Not everybody needs digestive enzymes. It's like why I work with patients and try to figure out what they need, you know. But for patients who have a last case on like the lower level, especially if there's been mold exposure that can be linked to pancreatic insufficiency. And so they may not make enough digestive enzyme. And then the SIBO or the gut infections just keep coming back or they're super constipated. So I like to do enzymes for certain people, spile, and I'll test HCL and people to see if they need one, two, three. Sometimes people need like four. So we're kind of tests you do to test for that. Yeah. So you can just do it on your own. It's people call it the HCL challenge test. So you basically take one pill of HCL with a protein containing meal. And if you don't feel anything with the next meal, you take two. If you don't feel anything with the next meal, you take three. And you can kind of keep going up. I mean, you don't want to take more than like six or eight. What would you do not want to open the capsules? Okay. You feel like a burning sensation, almost like reflux or gird, or burn, it's kind of like a warmth and a burning. Okay. I've gotten there. It doesn't feel super comfortable, but it's not like terrible. But often people are like, what am I supposed to feel? I don't feel anything. I've like taken eight, you know, you're like, well, that's hypochlorhydria. So there's an invasive test in medicine where they can like drop something down and test stomach acid, but obviously it's invasive. Yeah. Do the easy experimental. Yeah. You could do the easy experiment is just use some over the counter HCL and sort of test and see how your stomach acid looks. Okay. So I have a question with the enzymes. So if you start taking them, does that mean you have to take them for the rest of your life, or is there maybe just a period of time because then you can work. I've always tried to take the bitters is right. Supposedly it's supposed to help naturally get your stomach to start to create more. And I mean, I my SIBO and stuff all went away, which I got with the mold stuff, right. So that's not a problem anymore. But sometimes I'm like wondering when you have that feeling of you eat a meal and you feel like you just have a heart, like it's still like, it's still almost like in there for the in two hours later. And that's a sign you're not digesting, especially if it was a meat, like a beef, especially so that's when you take HCL. Then does that mean I have to take it for the rest of my life? No, it doesn't. Okay. And there's, you know, I don't know if the right, I don't think anybody really knows the right answer to that. You know, it's like, I like bitters too. So I didn't mention bitters earlier. I love bitters. I use it too. It's like one of my favorites. It is like a really great natural way to stimulate your gallbladder, but some people need more. And it just depends, you know, so for somebody who's not challenged with a lot of issues, bitters can be awesome. I mean, it could still be awesome for somebody who is challenged, but they might also need pancreatic enzymes on top of that. I'm just being on my own personal. Yeah, I know. That's what I do too. I'm like, well, this is what I know. I mean, I have obviously a lot of other experience with patients. So, yes, like what I tend to see and what I saw was like, I needed a whole bunch of enzymes and a whole bunch of digestive support. And after like two years, I could feel like my stomach acid kind of came back. So it took a long time. Yeah. And I've had other people have this sort of same experience. So, you know, it just, it takes a long time to sort of fix all these underlying issues, you know, how things are like things don't get better in two months. Like we have to sort of unpeel the onion. Yeah. And fix things. So what else from. I know you mentioned it like, okay, we, because our gut is so reactive to our nervous system that just even when we can start to relax a little bit more. Which I actually find is really hard for women. So, when you're used to like go, go, go, when you actually go down, like do you find that people can actually improve their gut function if they just like after like eat a meal, focus on your food, you're eating and then allow yourself to just a little bit of time. It's just like relax after so your body can actually digest. And you can find that just that alone can help to heal the gut because we don't just go boom from eating while we're driving or watching something or doing whatever to like the next task. Yeah, you're totally right. I mean, it's like that parasympathetic and sympathetic dominance. So like good, good food or eating hygiene, I say is like, donate when you're mad, sit down, chew your food, don't drink like a ton of water with your food because you delete all your digestive enzymes and stomach acid when you do that. And then you can just hold ice water so people who are drinking like a giant iced tea with their meal, it's like not great for digestive function, right. So yeah, just sitting down and relaxing and allow, wow, your body to sort of digest and absorb that. And also like part of what can help with digestion is just cooking and preparing food, like smelling it, sort of preparing your body for that. Yeah, and I think I don't know that it can really the I think the thing that goes unrecognized is when people have some underlying gut infection that they have no idea about because nobody's testing for it. And you can't cure that with food alone. I think food's important, obviously, it's a big cornerstone because you're not going to get better if you don't fix the food part. I don't think it can really be a cure for people who have, you know, a lot of dysbiosis or stuff, and some severity. So I think our bodies are designed to heal themselves, but sometimes we need to nudge them a little bit more. So as far as like orbit, as far as gut then, what do you have recommendations on like testing, like for me. So a lot of gastroenterologists will test her SIBO in their office. They'll do breast tests. So often, at least last time I checked, they didn't differentiate between methane and hydrogen predominant SIBO. But I mean, you pretty much know what you have. If you're really constipated with some methane predominant, if you're not a type of your predominant. So, you know, you can do a test for SIBO. I do at home tests for SIBO, like I do it, SIBO breath test. But honestly, I more often test what's called an OAT, or an organic acid test. I don't even do the breath test that often anymore, because they get so much better information from an OAT. So the OAT, the organic acid test is actually your in test. So looking at metabolites for fun little burden, so things like aspergillus and candida, and then also looking at metabolites for bacterial overgrowth. And so that information when I look at an OAT, I can get kind of a better feel as to like, if this is really heavy candida burden or just more bacterial. I like to do stool testing. That's a little bit like I interpret it with caution. I do a GI map usually looking just I mean one depending on the person, but if somebody who has digestive issues foods, sensitivities or auto immunity, always want to rule out like parasites or worms. Or at least evaluate for that and then look at other markers. So on the GM app, you know, you can look at good bacteria and bad bacteria parasites, worms, yeast, some viruses, and then lots of markers for intestinal health. So markers for things like inflammation, estrogen, rap take in your gut, immune system of the gut, it's called secretory IgA. And so that those two tests together give me a pretty good picture of somebody's gut health. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of awesome information that we can now find out they give you how to recommend because I've done all of those. I think the person that loves like to figure out test because you can't just otherwise just guessing right and there's some things you can experiment with like the HCI like you said. Yeah, I think that's great when there's certain things you can just be like, well, let's safe and I can just kind of experiment. But when you can get these tests, you can much easier pinpoint things. Would you typically do like an Oats test though before stool test because I think with I know with a stool test, you got to be careful which one you're going to do because there's there's a handful of them out there and there's ones that are better than others for sure. Yeah, I mean, I actually, yeah, I like the Oat better than a stool test even though we're evaluating GI function and get more information from the Oat. Yeah, that's what I was wondering because I feel like the stool you don't get too much on and it could be a little bit like, I feel like you could do two different tests and something might show up on one totally. Yeah, you'll get like one bacteria show up and then like the bacteria might be different. I just kind of when I interpret that, I just kind of walk people through it and like let them know the shortcomings of these tests, they're not perfect tests, but you can see a trend and if we see lots of like the bad bacteria, we know there's dysbiosis. Yeah, and I'm not prescribing an antibiotic. I'm prescribing more broad spectrum herbs for dysbiosis most of the time anyways, so it doesn't change my management because you know if it were if we're targeted therapy and I was like prescribing something for strap or for pseudomonas or something, I would probably handle that a bit differently, but I'm not right. No, this is such this is such good information. I love it use herbs because then you're getting rid of the bad stuff and keeping all the good stuff. Yeah, I mean herbs over time can be like an antibiotic too, so it's like you don't want to use them forever. And I don't always use herbs. I mean sometimes they'll use pharmaceuticals, especially somebody has a lot of fungal burden, you know, or had mold exposure or all using type fungles. Or sometimes I fax and you know for SIBO occasionally, but I really am very careful about the yeast component when I do that. Yeah, this is such good stuff. So is there anything else you see I know I again we always come back to get stuff, but they're This is good gut stuff that we haven't talked about before. And people to be aware of the oats tests, which can be very, very eye-opening, especially, again, you have to work with a function on my doctor that understands the oats test. And I'll know that your standard family doctor is going to know what to do with an oats test. [LAUGHS] Probably not. Yeah. So all of this, even-- and again, this is really good, whether you've never had a baby, right? But these are a lot of things that tend to come up because things can get triggered from being pregnant, giving birth, nursing, depletion, and all of that. So is there anything else that you really want to add that has to do with any of this? I think it's about all day about a lot of things. But yes, I know. I mean, I just think like movement and sleep hygiene, and I mean, all of the big deal. So for people who don't return to a good sleep cycle, I think that's something to definitely address and figure out why, whether that is related to neurotransmitter function or nervous system issues or whatnot. I also talk a little bit about Wi-Fi. I always make my-- as my patients to turn their Wi-Fi off at night and just try to really give yourself space to calm the nervous system. And sleep, because that is a really big pillar. Yeah, you could do all this stuff, but if you don't start to get a handle on your sleep, it's just like a tug of war within your body, right? Yeah. I'm with you with the Wi-Fi. Our's always off at night. And we've even got the self-imp cases. I don't know what you think about those. And the computer's ever on a lap. I've got the safe right here in front of me. My didn't feel-- Self-imp cases, I don't know why I used to have one. And then the environmental working group has a safe cell phone guide. And they actually recommended against them, because I think they feel that it provides a false sense of security. I don't know. So I was looking-- I'll just ask this one. The ones that I got, it's the-- how is it called? It's safe, something. But they just have it for the front of the phone. So the back isn't protected, because they say if you actually have it fully protected, your phone won't work for one. But it's supposed to shield it. So if you have it in a pocket, it's at least reflecting it away from your body. I don't know. I think it's a sense. So again, you said, don't use it as an excuse to have it on your body more. But with my 13-year-old, I'm like, try to get her to not carry her phone with her, but she likes to listen to books on tape. And I'm like, how do you argue with that? So it's like this fine balance of, I'm like, OK, well, I hope this is working. But-- Yeah. I don't know. Be smart about that. A wife I need her. Do you have a wife I need her at home? I do. Yeah, you're right. I haven't tested it. Yeah, my mom and I-- I'm going to-- I'm going to get it back. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I'm like, oh, my printer forgot about that. Yes. I know everything. I know we need to be hardwired and more insist. But then who wants wires running all over their house? But EMFs and people are more sensitive to EMFs when they realize. And I would say-- and let's know your thoughts real quick on this-- is like, for people that are a little more sensitive to things in general, they call the canaries. That's me. That's you, right? Like, we tend to feel these things. I've heard that people that get ringing in the ears. That's an EMF. Like-- Yeah, interesting. I don't know. I would buy it totally. I mean, I actually had my house tested. So somebody came over. She'd like all these crazy tools. My little EMFs and sort of like a hundred bucks, right? She has these very fancy things. And we shut down everything. And I was like, wow. It's like-- OK. There's a quieting. It's sort of like when you go camping. There's not-- I mean, there actually probably are a bunch of EMFs around you, because your neighbor over there has some sort of cell tower in there, but so they can watch an uplicks. But it's just like that feeling. Mm-hmm. I can totally feel that. But I mean, I don't know. I'm not sensitive enough to tell that stuff. There's certain people who are very-- they can feel it off of us. Well, I think when you tend to be healthier and you've gotten stuff out of your body, and all that, you become less sensitive, because you can tolerate a little bit more. But I agree with you on that, just feeling like when the internet's off at night. And you just have that sense of just like, it's quiet. And it is. It's a weird feeling. It's everyone should try it. If you haven't tried it yet, just unplug your Wi-Fi. I have mine on a Christmas tree timer, because I wouldn't remember to unplug it. Like, it's a good idea. I just could-- like, I just forget. It's like not the thing you think about. You turn off all the lights, and I just wouldn't remember that thing. So it's on a Christmas tree timer. And even if my husband and I are watching a show, and it is 10 o'clock, and that show is off, and it's like last night that's happened to us. It was like, what's going to happen? And then the internet goes down, and we're like, oh. And then you're like, but it's all right. But it's forced us to go to bed. And so it's like totally good for us, you know? Like you're welcome. Now we're going to bed. I know. And especially with all this, I feel like it's been too easy to say up a little later. And if you know, we have to-- I'm like, but then I feel so much better when I make myself go to bed within my-- 9.45 to 10.30 time. I feel like an amazing person when I wake up in the morning. So it does make a huge, huge difference. So yeah, for sure. Will Christine, will you share with everybody where they can find out more about you? Maybe they're interested in working with you, or they just want to follow what you talk about on social media? Yeah. So my website's Dr. Christine Marin. So CH-R-A-S-T-I-N-E-M-A-R-E-N. And then I'm on Instagram and on Facebook. So just Dr. Christine Marin. I'm on Instagram a lot. So leave me a note if you watched this episode and say hi. Yes. Thank you so much. This is so wonderful. So much good information. Likewise, thanks for having me. I'm going to go back and listen to your interviews with Sarah and Carrie Jones, because I know those are going to be really good ones. Really good ones. Absolutely. [MUSIC PLAYING] The material contained within is provided for educational and informational purposes only, and is not intended as medical advice. You should seek medical care for any specific health issues and consult your physician before beginning a new regimen or purchasing any products.