Politics for ME (and You) with Graham Platner

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Hey, everybody. It's Jon Stewart. Welcome to the weekly show podcast. We have a fine, fine program for you. We're going to pivot a little bit from the issues of the day to the candidate of the day. But boy, it's what it's today. Tuesday. Tomorrow is Wednesday, April 29. Who knows what's what's going to happen? Apparently, the Iranians are begging Donald Trump to be able to unconditionally surrender because they're collapsing. They're apparently completely collapsing, except for their ability to choke off the Strait of Hormuz. Apparently, everything is falling apart, but their ability to keep all boats other than Russian luxury yachts out of the Strait of Hormuz. It's I don't know about you. I am sure you're all fucking exhausted by all this to have the White House Correspondents Center and in gunfire and somehow that get flipped around and be an assault on apparently Jimmy Kimmel's jokes. That's the land of absurdity we find ourselves in in today's society. But you know what? There is there is hope. And the hope is in the people that rise out of, you know, I've always believed. When they say make America great again, Donald Trump will make America great again, just not in the way that he intended, because the reaction to his fragility and impulsiveness and incompetence will spur people that you would not expect to rise above the madness and help to begin to rebuild the very thing that we need in this country. And our guests say maybe one of those individuals. And I'm very excited. To actually talk to him. He is. Kind of came out of nowhere. One of those ordinary people who has suddenly stood up and raised their hand and said, hey, maybe maybe I could help run this thing. He is from Maine, a simple man, a Mainer, a Marine, an oyster farmer, and now a U.S. Senate candidate for the great state of Maine. Let's talk to Graham Platner. Well, folks, we are excited today to be talking about a young, rising voice in the Democratic Party from the great state of Maine, a Mainer, Mainer, Mainish, Mainer, Mainer, Mainers, the correct term, Mainers, the correct term, former Marine, oyster farmer, U.S. Senate candidate from the great state of Maine, Graham Platner. What's happening, man? Oh, you know, not much. Not much. Everything's real mellow. Having a real mellow, mellow. My life is definitely on the exact path that I thought it would be. Yeah, everything's chill. Very interesting. Graham, can I just even getting started on this, what what drove you this idea to to run for for Senate in Maine to join that assisted living facility that is the Senate down in Washington? What what possessed you to even consider something like that? Well, I mean, and do you mind if I give you like the two minute spiel on this? Because I think it's rather important. Give me the spiel, baby. That's that's what we're here for. I'd love to hear it. So I moved back to Maine in 2016. After my after I deployed a bunch in my 20s, early 30s in the Marine Corps and the Army. And what I got back from that was very disillusioned, was very, frankly, bitter, was was really and then was also struggling with all the standard stuff that one goes to after. You know, multiple heavy combat deployments. And I and I went to college in D.C. I went to George Washington. I didn't graduate, but I kind of went to school, was a bartender, actually bartended on Capitol Hill, which gave me a look behind the curtain. And I realized that the wizard is, in fact, a very small man. And seemingly dumb and see me. Well, so honestly, there was there was. Part of my disillusionment was actually living in D.C. and kind of meeting people in the political space and realizing that, like, this is it. Oh, wow. Like, I went through all of that horror. I saw like my friends got killed. I saw awful stuff because of you people. You're like, you know, there was this kind of like deep like frustration. But so in 2016, I moved back to Maine. And after I moved back to Maine. Things changed significantly. I started getting help from the V.A. I moved back to my hometown. I got into oyster farming and I I wanted to check out. I wanted to I just wanted to be left alone. I thought the whole thing was broken. I didn't want to have any part of it. I just want to sink all my time and energy into the place that I'm from. Started making a living on the sea. Got into diving. Got into oyster farming. Became the harbor master. Got really involved in my local community. And honestly, in that time frame, all my disillusionment disappeared. Not with the bigger system, but like I went I went from blaming like America and Americans to because I used to have this feeling like, why did you make me go do this? Like, why did you guys make us go do this thing in Iraq and Afghanistan that like I for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose was. And when I got back here and started really, really settling in, I realized I became quite convinced that the average American is a truly wonderful human being. Most people are most people are normal. The problem is we have a political system that elevates a lot of abnormal people. And so you get cable news. Yeah, I've watched. Yeah. And I've always been I've always been a very politically active and interested person, but not in like electoral politics. So I I got I really sank my time into my into local governance. I became chair of the planning board. And then I got really into the community organizing around. Social justice and economic justice issues and in all doing all of that, I also became to the realization that when the system itself is quite broken or not even broken, when the system itself is built to be a raid against the average person, you know, when you're working at the ground level, you're pretty much just putting Band-Aids on things. And but I did think that that was exactly where my life was going to stay. I mean, I really I moved back here to Sullivan, Maine, where I currently live. I moved back to Sullivan, Maine, where I currently live. I live on the road I grew up on. - Do you really? You're on the road you grew up on. Yeah, I live a couple houses down from the house I grew up in. Oh, fantastic. Which is nice. And I come from, I mean, my town has a thousand people in it, and it's where I grew up. So I know everybody. Everybody's known me since I was a kid. It's a very nice, I don't know, it's a nice feeling. Last summer, end of July, some people came to my house. They had been in Maine for a few months working with the AFL-CIO and a bunch of labor unions. Looking for someone to run for U.S. Senate against Susan Collins. And they were looking specifically for like a kind of a working class person on kind of working class economic policies. And they had found me because I did a video a few years ago fighting against the Norwegian salmon farm that was trying to come into our bay. A bunch of us mobilized against it, and I did a video with the group. I don't know that there's anything I've ever heard that's more Maine. A bunch of guys come to my house because they saw your Norwegian salmon video. Yep. And then they looked me up and they saw I donated to Bernie Sanders. And they were like, oh, well, maybe this, like, they were like, we should go check it out. So they literally came to my house and said, we think you should run for United States Senate. And my wife and I, quite honestly, told them to fuck off because that was the weirdest, weirdest, most random. The absolute problem. Proper response that you should have given. I mean, it was also like it was in the morning. We're getting I'm ready. I'm getting ready to go out on the boat. We're like, we're going to work. And we're like, what the hell? But they came back the next week with a more kind of fleshed out idea. They're like, listen, this isn't like they're like, this isn't like a joke. They're like, we we've got someone who can help you do small dollar fundraising. We've got someone who could help get your name in the papers. And we've got someone who's who can shoot a launch video, which was the launch video that got made. And at that point. And because my wife and I, we have no money. And so I'm like, I'm like, I know how this said, I know, I know how these campaigns work. I'm like, where, how is this going to, uh, is this going to happen? And essentially they were like, look, we're not like, we've got some people who can help early on. And that, and I'm like, well, so there was this moment where for my wife and I, we spent a lot of time being frustrated with the larger system. We spent a lot of time thinking that. And, and ironically, ironically. We've also had a theory for years that the United States Senate, because it was set up to be a specific bulwark against working class people to protect elites. That that actually makes it a unique place of power where if we can get a few normal people into the U S Senate, and I, and so like, but I, and I felt that way for years, never expecting that. Like I was going to be right. You'd be one of the normals. No, I, it never once. But then. But this opportunity showed up. And so, I mean, essentially my wife and I had to ask ourselves, do we actually believe what we think we believe? Because, because if, if we, if we do, if we do then an opportunity like this to do something of this scale and of this visibility and, and to frankly organize like using this as good. I mean, cause my wife and I have been very engaged in a lot of local community organizing and we realized like. This is a, this is an ability to do a statewide organizing project on a scale that like we never could have dreamed of with resources and visibility that we never could have dreamed of. And so we said, yes. So, so the fuck off became actually, this might be an opportunity to put our principles that we've kind of been living by for all these years into practice. Yeah. But we didn't expect it to. To do what it did. I mean, we didn't think it would work. We didn't have any idea that this would actually work. I mean, I mean, early on there was this element of like, it was almost like things are so bad now and people are so frustrated and including us were like, we might actually pull this off. I mean, there was this like, but we did, but we certainly didn't expect it to explode the way that it did. I mean, I thought we, we really thought this was gonna be like a months long, slowly building kind. A diligently going out and getting my name. I mean, cause I'm literally a random, I mean, I'm a random oyster farmer from Sullivan, Maine. It's insane. I have to tell you that the entire setup is somewhat Disney-esque. Oh, it's nuts. Or just sort of this, I, you know, well, first of all, there's always that there's kind of always the, the, the, the fable of a Mr. Smith goes to Washington, a kind of, you know, an honest man who has real ideals facing off against. Against a corrupt system that is fueled by money and toxicity and all these. So there is an archetype for this, but I'm curious in, in, in your mind, why did the sort of Mr. Smith goes to Washington thing catch such fire? What, what do you think you tapped into? What frustrations were it that you were able to articulate so well early on that people just. Caught onto if I may, like you weren't mimicking any other politician to my, I mean, there's, there's hints of Sanders in there, but like you were definitely a bit iconoclastic when it came to what you were putting out there and it didn't seem focused, grouped and considered or any of the other artifices that occur with, with a lot of politicians. So what, what kind of took off? I think it's honestly, I think it's two things. The first is that I actually have politics like, like I, like I have a, over the years throughout my life, through my experiences overseas, coming home, my disillusionment, I went looking for answers and in, in the looking for answers, I read a lot of books and I developed, frankly, a theory of power. I developed a deep critique of the American, not just the political system, but like the party that the party that I've always been a part of. I mean, I've been a Democrat. I mean, I've always been a registered Democrat. I've also, my entire life been very frustrated with the party that, that I'm, that I'm in. You, you and me both, sister. Primarily around that theory of power thing. I mean, I, I, I honestly have always been like, we, we can never articulate, the Democratic Party's never been able to articulate what it's trying to do. Like, what's the end goal? Never really articulates a clear set of policies that, to get us there. And then never, never seems to want to wield power to make those policies a reality. And you're, you're nailing it. So Graham, are you suggesting, sir, that your career is built on principle? What? A wild concept in this modern era. Mint Mobile. I don't know what you want out of a phone company. Deliver me a good product for less and don't bother me. Don't bother me with the like, oh, have you heard about our new program? You can upgrade to it. It'll just cost you a lot more. 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They use them for contracts, payments. So you can just spend more time running the business like you want to run the business. Could it get any better? I mean, now posting a job is easy. I like the old days where you had to fax people. Yeah, fax people. Oh no, I guess that's an old modem. That's not it. I got to work on my references. Anyway, like I say, Upwork is free to sign up. Posting a job is easy. Visit upwork.com slash TWS. Post your job for free. That is upwork.com slash TWS to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That is U-P-W-O-R-K dot com slash T-W-S. So I think that the fact that like I, like the reason that it doesn't seem focus grouped and the reason that my messaging is, is because it isn't like, I don't like, I write my own speeches. Like I give my own opinions when people ask me them. Like, I don't like, I've got like communications people. We talk about ways to like clean it up and make it easier. Like, well, I don't, I mean, I've got, oh my God. Well, the first two months of the campaign, like John, literally the amount of news articles, which were this man swears too much. And I was like, dude, I'm like, I'm a former combat Marine and I work on the ocean. What do you expect? Right. It's the only language the fish understand. It is. You gotta, you gotta talk to him. Well, more importantly, it's the only language outboard engines understand. If you don't swear at outboard engines, they won't work for you. It's a, it's a scientific fact. It has to be. But so there, so there's that part. There's the fact that like, I honestly think people understand that I'm not, full of shit. Like, like, like, cause I actually do believe these things. And I remember it was early on, I went like on CNN and I, you know, I went on, they asked me questions and I just gave like yes or no answers. And afterwards all these people called me and they were like, oh my God, it was so real. It was so like, like the, like, like you came across as so authentic. I'm like, what the fuck? How fucking broken are we? Oh, oh, oh, baby. Oh, I know. I know. You're like, you're literally like a mermaid that came out of the sea and people are like, what is happening? So there's that. The other part though, is that I'm just saying the things out loud that I've heard from my neighbors and my friends and my community members for years. I mean, it's something I, you know, I've gone all over Maine for the past nine months. Now we've talked to like tens of thousands of Maine. I hold multiple public events a week. It's all open to the public. We don't screen questions. We don't screen people like anybody can come. And so I've been talking to everybody, Republicans, independents, Democrats, the whole nine years, people that just don't care about politics, the whole nine years. And if you ask any Mainer, do you think you live in a political and economic system that has your best interest at heart? Uh, nobody says yes. Right. Nobody. And by the way, I mean, you transfer that to any state in the union, I think. I mean, I think that's absolutely the undercurrent. I mean, Graham, I have to tell you, look, I talk to people in politics all the time, and I've done it for many years. This might be the longest conversation I've had without a platitude with a politician. It sounds ridiculous, but I cannot tell you how canned, how often you hear. The Democrats just have to get back to those issues of affordability. We've got to get back to what people talk about around the kitchen table. And I'm like, I don't think people actually talk around the kitchen. I think they're eating in their cars. That's right. But that's what I'm saying. I think there is a refreshing openness and honesty. To approaching something this way. And I cannot wait to see how long it takes for you to be consumed by that system. Honestly, like that is. Do you worry about that? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. And I don't like I don't worry about. Look, I'll just say, like, I love Bernie Sanders. And I've developed a very nice relationship with Senator Sanders. And it is very clear to me that Senator Sanders has maintained his. Integrity because he believes. And and like I will speak and I believe in the same thing Bernie believes. Like I think I think we have a very, very similar sort of foundational politics, which is like we care about. We care about people like it's it's a politics of humanity. And it's a real policy. It's not a politics of like trying to like get into power for your sake. It's because it's only in. It's only in these like I just have a theory of power. These political institutions that we that exist around us. If we want to change things, we're going to have to like use them in some way. I would love if we could just do something else. But I like right now, it doesn't seem like that's possible. Now, I do think that. Because I'm not really a reformed candidate. I don't. I very much like Bernie believe in the need to have a political revolution. In this country, right? Like I we need to restructure things. We need systemic changes like it's not a but it's not nihilistic. I don't I don't know what you talk about as as nihilistic. I think and it's something that I think the Democratic Party has really struggled with, which is I think they're still relying on the idea that the New Deal was a good idea and that was in the 30s and that was the Democrats. And so let's just figure out. What ways to continue picking around that. Let's do a tax subsidy here. Let's do. But they don't think broadly and systemically in the way that I think is necessary. And maybe that's what you're thinking of. Well, and like if I'm any kind of Democrat, I am a New Deal Democrat. Right. But like the New Deal wasn't picking around the edges. Exactly. Like Social Security wasn't a tax credit. It wasn't a block grant. It wasn't a marginal amendment. It wasn't a policy. It wasn't a policy that was going to be passed into an existing policy. Francis Perkins and FDR and a bunch of labor unions invented Social Security out of whole cloth and the the CCC, the WPA, the TVA, the Rural Electrification Administration, all of these things. And listen, some of it worked and some of it didn't. But there was a theory behind what they were accomplishing. And and there was also the political will. Which is like. The power had a theory of power. I mean, for instance. Mid 1930s, Supreme Court is about to say that all the New Deal programs are unconstitutional. FDR. Yes. Against the wishes of his own party. Yes. Says that he's going to pack the court. Yes. Suddenly, very quickly, all those unconstitutional New Deal programs became constitutional overnight. Yes. Nobody changed the language. Nobody like like F.D. Like it's almost it's almost as though political power goes a little bit further than just the words on the page. It's almost as though that political power is, in fact, its own unique thing that needs to be at times wielded creatively. And, you know, like if that hadn't happened, then this country doesn't get dragged out of the Depression. Right. If that hadn't happened, we we wouldn't have set the stage to win the war. And do you see parallels with this moment? You know, one of the things that I think about sometimes, you know, to be fair to the system, Roosevelt did have large margins. Oh, yeah. At that time, because Hoover would, you know, the Republicans had fucked up at that point so grandly that that there were margins there that could be worked within. But even when Democrats have margins, I can recall when they've had the Senate and the House and they had a super majority for a little while. They still did that thing that you're saying. They still did that thing that you're talking about, which is. Don't let you know, let's not go. Let's let's not push this too far. Let's make sure that this program for health care isn't health care for everybody, because that's going to scare people. give a subsidy to insurance companies so that they will just bring more people into this broken system that we have. That's, I mean, that's it. That, I mean, and which is exactly what has happened. And it didn't fix anything because the problem isn't about, the problem isn't marginal. The problem is systemic and systemic. I mean, and you know, this is like, the reason we know it's systemic by the way, is because it's happening everywhere. It's not like one state has a problem with housing. It's not like one state has a problem with healthcare. It's not like one state has a problem with affordability. It's the entire country. And so, which is very clear to me that this is a obvious systemic problem. But like, okay, I'm going to, because we Roosevelted a little bit, I'm going to do one more. How could we not Roosevelt? We had to Roosevelt. In 1928, Roosevelt writes that the problem with the democratic party today is it has no constructive policy and vision of the future. And that if you ask the average American, what the democratic party believed in, nobody would be able to tell you. And that the entire theory is that we're going to wait for the Republicans to screw it up so much that we'll just magically get power again. He said that in 1928. Wow. And, and at that time was Chuck Schumer, the leader of the Senate. I'm just curious. Uh, I mean, possibly. Yeah. Um, same shit, man. But here's the thing though. And this is why I'm not, this is why I'm not remotely hopeless. Roosevelt writes that in 28 by 1933, he is president and the nation is fully engaged in the project of fixing itself out of the new depression. That's right. Like the first hundred days of his administration, right? Like the whole, there's the whole joke about the alphabet agencies because they just invent like 10 new agencies just into existence. And created, markets where they didn't exist before and created safeguards so that bank runs didn't exist and created financing for housing, which didn't exist. That's right. You know, all of those things did it in a racist way, but still did it. Well, like, and, and, but the thing is like the, the, those new deal programs and in the society that they built really in the fifties and sixties, which had a myriad of faults. I mean, like faults of, I mean, of racism faults of leaving out immense amounts of the nation. Uh, for however, what we have to understand is we can look to that and say like, we can do that in a not bad way. That's right. It's a blueprint. In fact, in fact, had we done it then in a more inclusive manner, we probably would have had a better society. Um, so, but my, the, for me, the big, the big lesson here is that one things can change pretty quickly. Now let's, I mean, it's important to remember 1929. Right. In the run-up to the total collapse, we had full deregulation of speculative financial markets. We had, we had rampant wealth hoarding where money, money was no longer in the real world. It was just being hoarded in vast numbers. We had a small amount of Americans owning pretty much all of the things and having all of the wealth. Uh, you know, I mean, none of this resonates with the modern times at all, Graham. But it's also why I think, and this is what's really important to me in this moment, we need as the, whether we call it the democratic party, whether we call it like a, a, a, a, I don't know, like a more economically populist look at our politics, either way, we need to be ready. We need to be there with the answers and with policies already written, because I do. I do think it's going to move fast. The Trump administration has broken so much. The Trump administration has destroyed so much of the norm, so much of the kind of the general way of doing business. And in many ways, the spirit, the emotional spirit, I think, of Americans who are frayed at the edges by just the, the, the exhaustion, the constant assault on all of our senses, uh, and purposefully. We've had a number of moments of, um, crisis for our democracy throughout our country's history, right? 1770s, 1860s, 1930s, 1960s. In every one of these moments, the Americans that rose to the occasion to protect the project, they understood that they could not just go back to what they had. That to, that to protect the rights of our children, we need to extend them new rights, that to protect freedom. We need to come up with new definitions of freedom. That, that it was in fact, the status quo, the system that we had, that's what brought us to the moment of crisis. And so it isn't going to be enough. Or the exploitation of those moments. Right. You know, the, the system oftentimes, no matter how, as you said, they put forth ideas that are going to elevate people. The system tends towards exploitation. Always. And corruption. And that, that tends to lead to those moments. As you say, of a collapse and reinvention. And I honestly think it's because while we, we democratized our politics, but we never democratized our economy. And, and within our political system. Bars, yes. Within our, like wealth equates political power in the system that we have. No question. And so without a democratized economic system, you are always going to eventually find yourself with these consolidated moments. Moments of wealth, which will inherently create consolidated moments of political power, which we keep doing this. I mean, you're seeing it right now play out in, in the tech world and we can get into this. You know, you talked earlier a little off camera about the $2 million that they've flooded into Maine for Susan Collins. And it came from people like carp at, at, at Palantir. But to your point and to the point of the 1920s, there's this one industry where trillions. And trillions of dollars are funneling into that industry through deregulation and through, uh, wealth capture and all these other things. And then they're turning some of that money into political power. And it's this cycle where they're just funneling, uh, the money that they've gotten through deregulation and the fact that capital isn't taxed in the same way that labor is. And now they're putting that back into the system to consolidate and keep that power at the top. Um, uh, okay. I, I, I shouldn't, I'm going to, I'm going to FDR. I'm going to FDR one last time. Bring it FDR me. So in, in 44 FDR puts out the economic bill of rights, which is this, which actually amusingly enough, it came out of the first real nationwide polling that was ever done. Oh, wow. In 42 and 43, the administration did a massive polling effort across the country to ask working Americans. What are the things that you need? Now, unsurprisingly, it was, we want security in our housing. We want jobs that matter, that pay us a working, a living wage. We want the ability to collectively bargain and join unions. We want access to healthcare. We want access to education. 1944 FDR puts out the economic bill of rights, which essentially says we, we as a nation, in order to democratize our economy, we need to provide as rights. Things like housing, healthcare, education, collective bargaining, all of it. When he kind of lays it out, he says, and I'm going to paraphrase here, but he essentially says, look, if we do not, uh, systemically change and not, uh, not allow for this consolidation of wealth, we are going to wind up eventually right back where we were in the late 1920s. And even though that this nation. Defeated fascism on the battlefields abroad, that is going, that is going to engender and create fascism here at home. And then he dies. Wow. He dies in 45. What an, what an exit letter though. And with his death dies, the political will to bring that economic bill of rights into a reality. And I look, I honestly like, had we, had we implemented that in the late 1940s, we live in a different society today. Labor Day savings are happening now at the Home Depot with select appliances, starting at $399. Plus save up to an extra thousand dollars and get free delivery on appliance purchases of $998 or more. Get a whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry first UV clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics. Plus with great prices at the Home Depot, you can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier. Shop Labor Day savings at the Home Depot today. Offer valid August 27th through September 16th. Do us only see store online for details. This episode is brought to you by chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about chat GPT work? It's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started. at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plan. 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hear from Democrats a lot is we gotta we gotta just tax the rich but if you don't connect the money that you're getting to the value that the voters are going to be receiving for that money it is a hollow pledge and nobody gets behind it because you have not earned the credibility that voters need to have that you will be using that money responsibly and for programs that make sense as you said not just another tax credit subsidy the Democrats seem unable to connect money to value in a broad way that resonates with voters and could I tell you why I think that is I would that exactly why I'm asking you because I don't think they actually do want to tax the rich I I think I think there are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who want who want to use that language in in order to try to like garner votes but they don't really want to go through with it because that would really piss off their donors oh that's I thought you were going to say something else Graham actually I thought you were going to say because they don't know what to do with it no I mean I don't know actually what to do with the money I well look I think that is also partially true I like I'm there we have a political class right now that exists that has really grown up in the politics of the last 50 years right in the politics the last corporate money and and that's right certainly it's like and so that system is going to elevate certain kinds of people with frankly certain ideologies or certain kind of I don't know like even just like emotional uh relationships which make them not want to do something big right I mean it doesn't like a system like that does not elevate people who dream it elevates people who are going to be transactional what do they always say Graham they say don't let perfect be the enemy of good which I can understand and you don't want to get paralyzed but you also the the counter to that is that you don't want to be the enemy of good is don't let good be the enemy of what's possible and too often that becomes the mantra and that's been my look I'm 41 my entire life let me tell you something your voice is 62 your voice is my age I know well maybe it was my time in the Marine Corps coffee and cigarettes baby coffee cigarettes and yelling when I was in the Marine Corps so that'll do it that'll do the um but it's a ironically I've had this voice even before the coffee and cigarettes but that's what you were the kid my little rascals who's like let's put on a show I mean it's it's it's it's a joke but it's not that much of a joke um but the uh the problem is is people that are elevated within that system they're not going to want to to like think big and and that's actually my so my whole life I've just heard from establishment politicians that like the best thing we can ever do is keep electing the same people because they know how the system works and like that experience is somehow like the experience that's going to uh get us something instead of nothing the problem is their experience is within the system that can't seem to do anything and like and I actually think that that's a bad experience like I don't think that that actually equates to a political vision I think that that's a bad experience like I don't think that that actually equates to a political vision because it's not about it's not about getting things done in the service of something it's just like being able to play the inside baseball for the sake of playing the inside baseball not in the service of a greater goal and I think honestly that's one of the biggest problems that we have and in like in so in like meanwhile like this is why I think we need a lot more normal people in politics because the experience of normal people like my experience is having to fight in deeply stupid wars and seeing the see seeing the the reality of that yes um my it's also coming home from those stupid wars and like then not being supported for many years and going through like the problems then it's like trying to start a small business and going through the problems of like dealing with all of like having the experience like trying to figure out how to make life work and in all within a system that often is kind of arrayed against you and and like we need more people with that kind of experience because when you have that kind of experience you're living in the material realities of policy not the not the not the words right write that down you are living in the material realities of policy that is fucking dead on but let me say too though Graham and I and I think it's important and in talking to you uh it it's something's kind of clicking in my head which is because we all talk about you know normal people don't talk like that you've got to talk to normal people you've got to get outside of and all those things are correct but we also need kind of rosetta stones we need some people that can help translate those lived experiences uh the material realities of living through the effects of policy into those broader kind of philosophical and policy hierarchies that need to be structured yeah and I feel like that if I may feels like a little bit of the magic I'm seeing from you is that you're able to have lived that experience and then translate it into Washington speak to understand how that experience can translate into the changes in in policy and it's such an important connection one of the weirdest things I actually think my my education on this was in my time on planning board that's interesting planning board in in Sullivan it yeah yeah because like on planning board in a small town especially you like craft policy implement policy and then see the material outcome of that policy sometimes within weeks and it's happening to your neighbors who are going to come tell you if it's fucked up and so like there's a like for like for me that was a really incredible experience because like you really you begin to like the words on the page actually translate to an to a material thing and you have to be very careful about and and also more importantly though you have to be flexible because sometimes you'll write the words on the page you implement it and then it does something different than what you thought and then you need to be willing that's really interesting does it make you distrust bureaucracy or does it make you in that instance do you do you begin to understand the frustrations of even well-intentioned procedure yes right yes And I don't like I'll be like I'm not mistrustful of bureaucracy because I honestly bureaucracy in some ways is necessary. It's how we keep systems functioning. The problem is we've resulted in like a bureaucracy in bureaucracies that cannot be flexible at all. And are captured by a lot of times the complexity of bureaucracy is put there by moneyed interests because they know they're the ones that got team of lawyers. That's right. You know, they're the ones tax loopholes aren't put in there by poor people. I mean, regulatory capture is a real thing. I look like even in the small in the small business food world, I've dealt with it firsthand. Like you're like the only way I could meet the standard is if I was like a multimillion dollar company that could afford all this nonsense. And you're like, oh, that's why. Because this was written by a multimillion dollar company who's the only one that could afford all this nonsense. And then they gave it to a politician who made it a policy. And that's like, yeah, that's there it is. And they don't have the time. Believe me that. And that was the you know, I remember being down in Washington. We were talking about it was the PACT Act and we were talking about burn pits for veterans, things like that. And I remember a representative coming up to us and going, this is a terrible thing that's happening. But like, we're really busy. So could you guys write it? Could you write the bill? They're asking us like a couple of idiots. Like we're like, sure, we'll we'll write it. But it made me realize, like, I imagine that somebody on Wall Street, somebody in a telecom, they might go like, absolutely, we'll write it. We'd be delighted. Honestly, that's I think that's it's I don't even I think that is what happens. Right. I mean, like that's. Yeah. And it's in these and these are things that are written by lawyers. I mean, meanwhile, like, you know what, a community organization writes something big and, you know, and then they give it and like, I don't even know what this is. Is this written? I mean, like I it's just this it's structurally arranged. aid to benefit those with wealth and power and an army of attorneys, which is, I mean, I think that's why we continue to kind of find ourselves in the straits we find ourselves in. Graham, can I ask you a question? It's a slight change of topic, but like, well, first of all, let me just say, you know, all I heard about you for a while was, hey, this guy's got a fucked up tattoo and some Reddit posts that aren't any good. And yet, as I talk to you, your candidacy, the way that it's resonating with people, it couldn't make more sense. It's logical. It has, I can almost watch the bottom stair and you walking up the stairs as something that is organic and builds naturally and makes total sense. So I imagine the frustration and I'm not saying people's backgrounds shouldn't also be a part of their story and the challenges that they face and some of the things, but I'm saying it must have been a slightly frustrating experience to see the story that you're describing, which feels so organic and so grassroots and so common sense oriented, be overshadowed by things that you might have regretted, not done exactly right, or also have no real bearing. Yeah. I mean, it is, it was a uniquely frustrating experience. It still is sometimes because it, you know, it, but, but to like, to see myself being framed by people who have never met me, who know absolutely nothing about my background, really, uh, who like just latched on to this, like, oh, this guy said dumb things on the internet 15 years ago. And, and I'm like, man, man, I did. Cause I was like a angry young dude. Who got back from my fourth combat tour and like was isolated and lonely and spent time bitching on the internet. But let me ask you a question, Greg, why do you, so you just said something really interesting, which is angry young man back from fourth deployment online struggling. Why weren't you think you captured by the alt-right because boy, do you sound like their target audience? To be captured by the anger, uh, of that movement because that boy you're in the timeframe, you have the experience of it. White guy, working class, angry vet, struggling to fit in. You are fertile soil brother for that kind of recruitment. Why do you think it didn't go that way? One is because even in high school, I had some absolutely spectacular teachers who sort of opened, who opened my eyes up to, I would like a, um, like a, a, a, a criticism of the larger system that wasn't, that didn't require you to like look for scapegoats and other working people. Oh, that's interesting. You didn't fall into the, like pronoun trap where you're like, ah, these fucking pronoun people. No, I like, and I'm voting for Trump. No, and I was in, in, in, so like that on it. So like, and also obviously I have two very loving parents who might like, who very much engendered in me this idea that like you need to be open with other people and you need to be like empathetic and compassionate. And I think my lucky stars that I had, I have two wonderful parents that did that. Um, but I will say the other thing is like after I, when I got back. Uh, I, I definitely, uh, oh, how do I put this? Like I, I definitely was looking for like answers and in that, you know, like I. And a community. And a community. Hence why, you know, hence why the internet. Um, because I certainly wasn't getting it in the real world, but I was, but I was also going to college and in school I became friends with a number of people. Who had very, very, very different lived experiences than mine. And in doing that, I realized that like, oh, like the, the best thing for me to do is to like spend time around people who have had a totally different life than I have and understand that their life, their lived experience is just as valid as mine. And, and that the more that I can, like, the more than I can, I can one open myself up to those people and then also have them. Open up to me. The more I get to learn about the human experience and the more I get to learn about, and it's really difficult to do that and also start thinking that you should like hate other people. Like it's so like, I think in some ways it was those sort of, I had, I had a good foundation, honestly. Right. Well, it is, you know, the internet is so good at reducing things to two dimensions. Whereas life is obviously you're living in, in three and from what I understand, sometimes four. But, you know, I'm wondering if that, if that world, did you understand its appeal? Because I imagine anybody who's a Marine or anybody who served in Iraq and Afghanistan knows those guys, hangs out with those guys, loves those guys for other reasons other than some of their politics. Totally. But I also imagine you understand the siren song of exactly what you're saying. And, and were you cognizant of it when you were looking for community? And did you ever feel its pull in that way? I also got a lot of that in the Marine Corps. Like, like, like, you know, like the Marine Corps is, I mean, if we're talking about like people want to be part of a community, having a purpose, feeling connected, uh, and like, and for young men, there's the whole like aggression and violence thing. Like I was, I was the Marine Corps infantry. I mean, it doesn't get more those things than that. As aggressive and violent. Yeah. That's the training. And I, but also, but I also got to the end of it and realized that it didn't fill any holes in me. Like it, like it didn't, in fact, it left, it had left me more alone and more isolated in many ways. And so like, so for me, there was like, I, I did kind of already know that looking for more of that was not going to be the answer. I kind of got like the maximum version of that, uh, or the maximalist version of that. And it didn't, it didn't, it didn't work. You didn't need the alt-right. You were enlisted in it. So you didn't, you had lived it. Yeah. I mean, like, like, and don't be wrong. I mean, like, I will always be proud of, I love the Marine Corps. I still, I'm very proud of being a Marine. Um, I loved, I've many, I mean, the guys I served with still remain some of my closest friends. Uh, but it is definitely like a, you know, it's, it's a hyper masculine. Oh, certainly when I was in, it was all male. Um, and, and, and like all things that are virtues there are definitely not virtues. Virtues in the normal world. And then I had to go out into the normal world, learn that the hard way. Uh, but then also the thing that actually made me happy was real community. Like the thing that actually ended up filling all the emptiness inside of me. It wasn't, it wasn't rage. It wasn't anger. It wasn't any of that stuff. It was literally like just spending time with other people. It was just being in the place that I live and like, and working with people on projects to improve all of our lives. And suddenly in all of that, I was like, oh man, like I'm a. happier person i mean i spent years like really really disillusioned and then i moved then i moved back to maine started working on the ocean which has another big part i mean it's it's hard to not feel a sense of place when you're like on the sea on your boat looking at the seals and the eagles and like you know like wait what what ocean i'm in jersey man what are you talking yeah yeah maine's maine's pretty i mean and that's what i mean like i like i like i am so luckily lucky to be where i'm from i'm so lucky that my community when i came home really kind of wrapped its arms around me in some ways and like it allowed me to come back like i finally got to come home and i was lucky enough that it actually is my home it's the place i was born and raised that has a lot to do with it but the big thing was like really just engaging with human beings and and building that sense of like real in-person community and it is challenging right like human beings are still people yeah it's complicated the thing to understand like it's never gonna be perfect but it is i don't know how to say this it like in working with other people and connecting with other people in real life not on the internet but in real life that is kind of what rebuilt all of my hope and it's what rebuilt all of my positivity and and it was it was and i didn't have any of that when i was looking for it on the internet i didn't have any of it when i was really i mean like i like the military kind of fills that hole for a little while when you're doing it but the moment you leave it it all goes away and now you're alone and so it doesn't actually fix it it's not like a long-term sustainable version of community and and and long-term sustainable community is the thing that like actually is i mean that's why i'm doing this labor day savings are happening now at the home depot with select appliances starting at 399 plus save up to an extra thousand dollars and get free delivery on appliance purchases of 998 or more get a whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry-first uv clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics plus with great prices at the home depot you can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier shop labor day save at the home depot today offer valid august 27th through september 16th us only see store online for details but see this is why grant i feel like what's so different about what you're talking about is that it lacks the platitudes of somebody viewing something from above you're viewing everything from within you you're talking about roots you're talking about i was adrift and i went back and and i planted these roots in my community and here's how i did it and here's how i rebuilt my sense of self and my sense of purpose it is a story grounded in lived experience and i do think that you know it it certainly resonates with me even though my experience in the world is so different than yours because i can touch it it feels really tangible to me it feels uh really grounded in uh a kind of hierarchy of needs that i can grasp rather than cable news platitudinous nonsense and that is what is so missing from our politics it's also this is the part that gets me it's not how people interact but like i mean like that's the thing that gets me about this whole experience and like like i always get the question like from journalists they're like what do you think explains the fact that you a random guy from eastern maine is now like beating yeah i mean like we're you know i'm like up 40 points on a two-term elected sitting governor and and you know i'm pulling far ahead of susan collins i mean and so they're all they always call they're like how do you explain this and i'm always like you know honestly it's because i i i think because i just like talk like a regular human being and in many ways uh i'm coming at this very much from like this space of just being down here in the real world and seeing what's going on which is and the other thing too is like i also don't think that voters are well mostly because i i am one too like i don't think we're this like mass of people to be right like there's in the democratic party is still really bad at this by the way there's still this like idea that we gotta you like there's like these magic words we're like oh we didn't use the magic word last time that would have made people think we give a shit about them without actually giving a shit like it's like nah dude people are smart people like they don't like when they're being like they don't like the magic words they want you to say things like no we want you to have health care that's why we have this universal health care system and we don't want you to have health care policy and here's the plan that we have that's going to here's the plan the money we're talking about to the value you might receive you know the frustration with the democratic party is always kind of this which what they'll say is this the strategy is authenticity and you're like right that's not a strategy that's a strategy that's just a thing and then you can smell the thing that really rubs me the wrong way is you can smell the meeting on them when they talk the meeting where they went donald trump's uh resonated with them because he curses sometimes so the next day chuck schumer is out there i will fucking this i will fucking pass this and you're like it's it it you smell the the marketing you smell the strategy you smell the pr on them uh almost at all times has there been any connection graham have they you know look the democratic establishment has certainly put their uh cal she money and their polymarket money on janet mills and that you know is there have you felt any sense of any curiosity has there been any hey graham i'm i'm a more establishment guy you seem to be resonating what do you think is going on or do they view you again through the prism of uh insurgent this insurgent must be stopped so as of late past few months there's been a lot more reach out from like individual people kind of in the like like senators honestly um i think there are a lot of senators now there are a bunch of senators like bernie elizabeth warren chris van holland uh that whole crew who martin martin heinrich in new mexico um who like i've been they they reached out early on right and have been in the same position for a long time and they've been in the same position been big supporters really the whole time they felt a a fellow progressive who they thought okay i understand where this fellow's coming from totally so like so that's been going on since the beginning past couple months though there has been more reach out from i would say more kind of like establishment folks um however however and this is the important part not from like not from like the dscc not from the dnc like the right like nobody in the places of power remains interested but they're lost dude like they're i have dude it's so bad they're lost and the thing that bothers me the most isn't like i'm not i'm not asking for you to like be my friend but you should be curious because i'm pulling 40 points ahead right like you like at least at least just reach out and be like hey uh what are you actually because we've never they've never they've never spoken ever i've never gotten a phone call remember like no one's ever reached out i've never talked to anybody in leadership i like no one's ever been interested in ever and which is like kind of baffling i think it's because they only know two stories the two stories are this you're either a moderate democrat or you're a left-wing firebrand and so what they're saying is oh sure the left-wing firebrand that that does well in the primary but that'll never travel you know there is that idea that well electability and there's something crazy about this as though you are the equivalent of a you're the democratic equivalent of a maga loyalist right who has come out with wildly controversial uh positions and then you talk to you for five minutes you go oh no this is based in historical precedent it has a very literate and literary foundation to it it has a foundation of lived experience like they should be again viewing this as a rosetta stone that can help them translate and here's the trick and maybe this is what we can kind of talk about and i'm cognizant of your time and because it's okay of your lived experience your your rural internet connection that's the issue actually that is the issue how do you translate that lived experience you talked about it a little bit earlier you know being on the planning board and understanding that oh sometimes the the wording and the intention you know had unforeseen consequences and those kinds of things how do we translate those experiences to create that new deal for a more modern America where we do get that value, where we do change the incentives of government, the way that that money is spent. How do we make that transition? This is honestly the hardest question to answer. And my answer is going to be insufficient. I'll just tell you that right now. No, no. Listen, it's a process. The answer to it is that we need to build political power through getting people like me into the U.S. Senate, into Congress. And we also need to do it while building organizational power outside of the system. There has never been a moment in American history where we've gotten good feedback. Things just because the institutions or people in power decided to do it. They needed to be pressed. I mean, this is honestly why this is why this country has killed the labor movement. We did it on purpose. We did it because the labor movement is a foundation of power that can like actually like push back against the system. We need to. So like on this, on our campaign, this is a above all else. This is an organizing project because I firmly believe that, well, me getting elected to the U.S. Senate, that's a big part of it. But that needs to be in tandem with a fully organized, broad based coalition here in the state of Maine that can put pressure on, frankly, other members of our delegation, if need be, because it's not going to be enough to just rely on the systems. But. The the big thing is, is that it's that building that kind of outside power. That's also how we're going to identify. More people like me and then have the resources to get them elected, because the biggest issue right now is that I mean, I think you probably saw there was an article recently about how like majority Democrats, which is this kind of like PAC group, has been essentially curating with a lot of money, these these these these candidates to push forward. And they're all it's all built around this idea that we're doing like the pro corporate, pro business, moderate types. Right. We need to build the opposite of that. We need to build the infrastructure. So like for me, the only reason this ever happened is because on day one, people who could shoot a launch video, who could help with small dollar fundraising and who could get my name in the papers, those three things, though, those were those were assets that I had access to because some, frankly, labor unions had pitched in some support to for the project. To make that happen. We got to find other people from the normal world like me, and they're all going to they're going to look different. They're going to sound different. They're going to be from different communities. And that's all what it's supposed to be. But it's a matter of infrastructure, because if we don't have that infrastructure to give them that early support, then like if I woke up one day and said, I want to be a U.S. senator, I would have walked out of the boat launch. I would have told that to the guys that I fish next to. We all would have laughed about it over coffee. And then we all would have gone with our lives, right? Like it's just would not there's no way that it would have materialized. And so to turn all of this stuff into reality through policy, frankly, we need to build the political power to make it happen. And that's why it's that's why it's kind of an insufficient question, because it's not actually about like or it's an insufficient answer, because the what we have to do first before doing any of that is. Sees political power and to do that, we're going to have to create the infrastructure to get normal people into places of power, which is hard when all of the money is like you mentioned. I mean, yesterday, Alex Karp and the CEO of Blackstone. Like that's Palantir and Blackstone for those following at home. Palantir and Blackstone unleashed two million dollars of negative ads against me yesterday. Like just out of curiosity, what does Palantir have against you? Well, I have I have actively said that I think that companies that steal everyone's data should be broken up and destroyed. So, you know, it's so they're in the pro-steal everyone's data camp. And so that, you know, fair play to them. But you're talking about building this political movement and the power. And I can tell you, at least from my experience, the thirst is out there. And you see from these sort of there is a general undercurrent of energy for something different. I think there's a kind of a funny chicken and the egg thing here. In that, you know, to get more people like you and to get more infrastructure, we also need more specificity. We almost we need the outline of that new deal. People, I think, need to know what they're signing up for. And right now, they don't have a sense that they're signing up for anything different. They might be signing up for different people. And they might be like, well, that person is pro-choice. So I'm assuming there's going to be more. But they don't know economically the specifics. What do you mean by we all need health care? Like, what is that? What does that mean? What does it mean that, you know, labor is getting its ass kicked by capital? It's almost like if you could put those parallel on parallel tracks, one can build the other. But I think you can't build the one without the other. Does that make sense? Oh, 100%. And that's the struggle, honestly. I mean, that's the challenge, especially when we are arrayed against such a vast amount of wealth that is going to try to push back. But here's the thing. We need to. Like, we need to try. If we don't fight back, I mean, these lunatics want us to own absolutely nothing, turn our lives into subscription models, turn, like, all of our being into some commodified avatar in data that they sell. Be replaced by. Be replaced by robots. By robots and autonomous intelligence. Like, that's. Yeah. No. Like, this is. Like, that's what they want. And we can't. We literally cannot let them win. I mean, if they win, that is a bleak future indeed. Yeah. And we need. But they're not going to. The problem. We are in this very unique moment where the system itself has been built to benefit them. The average person has been sold the story for a long time that power is not for them. Power is for special smart people. Power is for people who come from the system itself, which is all nonsense. It's a bullshit story. It always has been. But it's a. So, where we are right now is, we are. We are in the moment of we have to change the narrative around it. We have to change the way people think about power. We have to talk about the fact that it's. Universal healthcare isn't nebulous. It's Medicare for all. It's an existing Senate bill. That's right. It's not magic. It's Senate Bill 1506. It's a real thing. We just need the political will to pass it. Right. We need to strengthen labor. We need to pass things like the PRO Act. And the connection to people to understand why it's not scary and how it would work. Right. And how we could do it. But again, it's that double track of. But then people have to be convinced that the government has the credibility to be able to. Cases need to be made so that people begin to trust that the money that they're sending in, which is significant for most people, is being utilized in a way. One of the things I think people. We talk so much about the system of government that we have and the way that it was designed, and it was designed as a compromise with slave-owning states. Let's be honest, that's how the electoral college and that's how the Senate. That's how it exists. That's how all that stuff exists. But I think in general, what people, I think, hopefully begin to understand is there's also this fourth branch of government, which is corporate power. And that government's really the only organization strong enough, large enough, to offset some of the corrosive effects of corporate power. And the government has to be able to use that and not be held hostage to it and captive by it. It's my critique of libertarianism. Yeah. Because you could have ended up in that camp. Right. Your resume is libertarian coded, if I may say. And I've got. Look, I've got some libertarian. I mean, I live in Eastern Maine. I do want to be left alone. So. Like I. There are a whole lot of libertarian things going on in the country, but I don't want to be left alone. So like I. Like I. There are elements of it that I totally understand. Yeah, yeah. But my. I mean, I'll be honest. It's mostly just the fact that I read a lot of history books. Right. And in my reading of history, large. Consolidated capital, the only really effective way of going after it is with governmental power. And when we don't do it, that's when corporate power, the power of capital, captures government. And the answer to that. Like the answer to bad government isn't no government, it's good government. Right. And good government is possible. It is. I swear to you, I will die on that hill. Good government is possible. All the normal. European countries show us that there are better ways of doing this. And you can make different choices about what you prioritize in your society, where you put your productivity, where you put your capital. I mean, does it go towards making people's lives better or does it go towards somebody hoarding the wealth? I mean, we've chosen option B as of late, and it's just a bad option. But the only way for us to get that stuff back is to harness the power of government. Because otherwise, I mean, multinational corporations- Will be consumed by the other. Yeah. Graham, I can't tell you how pleased I am to have been able to have this conversation with you. You have been caricatured in many ways in the national media. And so to be able to spend an hour or so just getting to know you and getting to know your story, you really make a lot more sense to me now after spending some time with you about what this is all about. I just assumed that you were the sum total of your three Reddit posts that were kind of odd. But I really do appreciate. And I also know that for a guy who likes to spend time alone on the ocean and with his family and with his community in Maine, this is a. It's a sacrifice. I do believe that. I believe in the same way that you signing up to serve and fight for this country was a sacrifice and a commitment. And I feel like you're continuing that legacy of service and sacrifice in this. It's not easy to face down the forces that are arrayed against you. And I appreciate you, man. I just wanted to say that. And it was really lovely to talk to you. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure to get to know you. And I wish you the best here. Thanks, John. And just before we get off, I just want to say, I mean, you've been an inspiration for a very long time. No, you're very kind. No, I really appreciate it. Thanks, man. Graham Plattner, Mainer, ocean sailor, oyster farmer, Marine, U.S. Thanks for spending time with us, Graham. Thank you, John. Appreciate it. Thank you. I'm just going to say this. I didn't feel, maybe for the first time in a while, that I was talking to a politician. And I understand, look, he's got to get elected. But that was, dare I say, an actual conversation. It almost felt more like it was a mix between talking to Heather Cox Richardson and the Gorton Center. I'm going to put those things, those two things together. The FDR references got you. But what was so interesting to me is he's built a political campaign on the scaffolding of lived experience and philosophical principle based in historical precedent. Yeah, I feel it was one of the most refreshing conversations we've had on this podcast. I've also, I've heard him talk. I've heard him talk elsewhere about just how integral organizing is. And we've heard that from, you know, so many candidates who have gone on to do well. And that is it. You need people who believe in you to also take up the message and be spreading it. One person can't really do everything on their own. No question. And I think he knows that. And he'll admit that. But he's also like, this is me. And if you guys like it, great. This is what I'm trying to do. This is what I believe in. I hope you do too. And let's do it. And it's just, he's not trying to be real. It's just like, this is who fuck I am, dude. Right. No, it, it seemed very clear. You know, it's, it's funny. Sometimes you wonder like, how the hell is this guy in the position that he's in? And then you talk to him and go, oh, I can see how when you go to different town halls and you talk about your life and the planning board and your experience in the work, but it's not just about the experiences. It's what those experiences represent to him. Yes. How he's processed them, how he's filtered them, how he's filtered them. And after you talk to him, it's kind of astonishing that the whole story is like fucked up tattoo guy. And you're like, oh, I think we, I think we might've missed the main, I think we may have buried the lead on this one. Yes. Yeah. Purposely, you know, people are not just the mistakes they make. Right. No, it's a headline. I mean, like that was the thing. Like we all saw the headlines about him. Right. But like, you actually just listen to conversations he has and you're like, you get a sense of who he is. Exactly. I was curious, that he wasn't captured by all, cause I got to tell you, like he, he would have been a fertile person for the alt-right to have influenced. Oh yeah. You know, when he was talking about his upbringing, I had done some reading on him and someone who was his former high school classmate did a write-up on him. And apparently he ran for student body president and lost, but was nominated for most likely to start a revolution. So I have a feeling he's like always been this guy. I didn't know that that was, a superlative you could have in your high school yearbook. I think we had like best smile. I won't tell you mine. Did you have one, Brittany? You got a superlative? What'd you get? So embarrassing. It's most likely to be famous. Really? And here you are. I don't tell many people. A podcast extraordinary. I didn't, did your high school have superlatives, Lauren? Yeah, but I was not a cool kid. I was doing my own thing. Most likely to do her own thing. Yeah. And here I am doing my thing. And here you are doing your own thing. We all end up together. I actually, I was very pleased. I got best sense of humor. Oh man. But not class clown. Oh, you classy version of it. I'm just saying. Wait, do you know who, who did do it? Because in this article I read, she was like, oh, class president wound up being a chiropractor. I loved that detail. It makes sense. That makes, that makes, that makes total sense. Uh, what else do the kids want to know, uh, this week, Brittany? Okay. John, they used to say only Richard Nixon could go to China. Are we at the point now where only Jared Kushner could go to Iran? Uh, it really depends on if they're looking to build a series of malls, you know, Jared Kushner, he can go anywhere, anywhere that there is land that can be developed for either a Barnes and Noble or a Macy's Jared Kushner can go. As long as there's also, uh, a condominium aspect to it and then a kind of throwing a bone to affordable housing and that there will also be two units. So really he's available any country, uh, that, that, that can be, I can't tell you how many mall developments there are near where I live where you're like, oh, what's going up over there. And they're like, uh, I believe that Kushner is a building. Oh my God. So underground bunkers, perhaps this is a bit tangential, but it has been interesting to me how few articles have been mentioning his conflicts of interest when talking about all of these negotiations that he's been a part of. And I get we're like desensitized a bit to it. And I guess that there's so much news, but that is a really big deal. Oh my God. It's wild. Imagine going into peace talks where Saudi Arabia, you have $2 billion from the sovereign wealth fund of that country. And you're in there trying to broker a deal. Between Iran and the United States and pretending that like your investments from the Saudi kingdom have no bearing on any of that. This is just a volunteer gig for me. Bullshit. It's not a volunteer gig. It's what they used to call cold calling. Like you're going to a place to establish a relationship so that you can extract wealth and money out of it later. That's the whole modus operandi of that entire fucking family. And I would doubt there is no peace deal that they make in any country. That doesn't involve, they also get a golf course and a hotel development for the whole thing. Look at us going after the man. We're inspired. Yes. How Graham of us. What else they want? How Graham of us is a great, that's a great little bumper sticker. How Graham of us. I'm going to make him. Yeah. John, a few weeks ago on Sean Hannity's podcast, he called you and Bill Maher funny and clever. Would you like to return the compliment? No. Why would he do that to me? That is so not fair and not nice. Which part of it? All of it. Lumping me in with Maher and then saying something nice. He's trying to fuck, you know what he's trying? He's trying to wreck my business. That's what he's doing. He's trying to ruin your brand. He's playing the long game. That's that martial arts training he's been doing on. Yeah. That's, I think I can listen. I could, I could do that. Yeah. That's, would you like to return the compliment? Uh, yes. He is Bill Maher. done yeah i don't trust anything that comes out of their mouths that isn't strategic there's some strategy in there i i can't necessarily figure out what that is why was he asked that or were they oh i bet it was was it a conversation like late night sucks it's all well he gave you guys a good lob but then uh said colbert kimmel and fallon he doesn't understand they are no fun they are not funny and should not be on here oh how brave of him yeah listen knowing that he is the arbiter of humor in this country that he is the grand poobah i think most people look to him for uh hey what what kind of humor do you like because you seem hilarious did he mention gutfield or forgot that's the only one that does it right yeah he's apparently anybody else who's partisan that's turning off half the audience they gotta they gotta learn how to do it like greg who's really you know equal opportunity yeah so that's the way that goes yeah all right uh thank you please do not compliment me again next the last one is a riddle oh come on do i need to write this down no it's short okay i am so fragile that if you say my name you break me what am i i am so fragile if you say my name you break me what do you break when you talk is there something that you what do you break when you talk that was pretty close it is i but yeah i don't know what the name of that would be i was i was trying to come up with cover like i'm so fragile i was like trump like i was just i was just gonna keep going trump trump uh i'm so you're really close uh air what is it that you break me when you talk break when you sat when you make a sound quiet quiet you break silence silence yeah okay you got it you got it nah but not quick enough to be qualified as those are is that one of those things that like 60 of geniuses or you know 30 of people who get this right are considered geniuses and that's why you got most likely to be funny that sense of humor class clown would have gone with something very different bunch of sounds and all that sorts of stuff um guys once again uh obviously uh we look forward to having our our partner in arms uh jillian here uh next time but uh truly enjoyed britney how do they how do they stay in uh stay in touch with us uh twitter we are weekly show pod instagram threads tiktok blue sky we are weekly show podcast and you can like subscribe and comment on our youtube channel the weekly show with john stewart fantastic guys thank you so much uh fascinating conversation today lead producer lauren walker producer britney memedovic producer jillian spear video editor and engineer rob who was doing yeoman's work on today's uh rather spotty connections that were going on through the uh and our audio editor and engineer nicole boyce doing the same and executive producers chris mcshane and katie gray uh we will see you guys next week boy the weekly show with john stewart is a comedy central podcast it's produced by paramount audio and busboy productions labor day savings are happening now at the home depot with select appliances starting at 399 plus save up to an extra thousand dollars and get free delivery on appliance purchases of 998 or more get a whirlpool laundry tower featuring industry-first uv clean technology designed to reduce bacteria in the wash without fading fabrics plus with great price-performance at the home depot you can save on select appliances designed to make laundry day easier shop labor day savings at the home depot today offer valid august 27th through september 16th us only see store online for details paramount podcasts