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12. Policed – The Care System: Liam’s Story

38m 20s

12. Policed – The Care System: Liam’s Story

This podcast episode features Liam's account of his journey through Ireland's care and justice systems. After his mother's imprisonment, Liam was removed from his grandmother's home and placed into residential care at age 10 or 11, experiencing profound trauma from the separation and instability. He describes how multiple placement breakdowns and a lack of consistent psychological support exacerbated his distress. His anger and sense of injustice led to school refusal and behavioral issues, resulting in his transfer to a secure care unit far from his family. There, his substance use and criminal behavior began, leading to charges for actions like property damage during restraints. At 14, he was unexpectedly taken to court and remanded to a juvenile detention facility, which he found more severe than adult prison. The narrative is contextualized by insights from John Murphy of Epic, who explains the compounded trauma faced by children in care and the systemic failures in providing timely mental health services and stability, creating a cycle that predisposes them to criminalization. The discussion underscores trauma's impact on perception and the urgent need for systemic reform to support these vulnerable youths from the outset.

Transcription

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[Music] Welcome to Police in Ireland, the podcast that seeks to capture the experiences people have with the police. I'm Dr. Vigay Khanwe and I'm passionate about listening to people from all different walks of life, about how they experience our police on Gardysheokona. [Music] I was called to a court up the country to face charges from two years ago. Myself and the professions involved with me felt like I was going up to get these charges dealt with and move on with my life. But when I was walking into the court, one of the officials said to me that he hoped I had my bags packed because I was going away. This week Liam tells us about his life as a child in the care system through detention centers and into prison. Liam is not his real name and while the words are all his, we've used an actor on this occasion to deliver them. Last week when we heard from Gabrielle, we mentioned that those in the care system can be more likely to be criminalized. One of the points that Liam draws our attention to this week is how he ended up being charged for things that a child in their home environment would not. And as John Murphy from the volunteer organization Epic, empowering people in care, explains to us, this is layered on top of the fact that these are traumatized children who've been exposed to adverse childhood experiences. [Music] My name is Liam, I'm from Galway in Ireland and I'm 18 years old. I'm going to speak about my experiences of policing and juvenile detention. In order to do this, it's important to speak about my early life and some of the experiences that were part of my pathway to detention. [Music] I've gone to start from when I was about 10 or 11 years old because up to this point I thought things were okay in my life. I think this is because children do not always tune into what's going on and it can be easy to keep things from them. But when it was about 10 or 11, there was no way for me to avoid knowing what was going on when my mother went to prison for a very serious crime and received the maximum sentence. I remember my nan sitting me down to talk to me about what my mother had done. I didn't really understand but I remember crying because I knew it was really bad. I remember all so that it was very hard going back to school with everybody talking about what had happened. I remember a boy in my class came up to me and he said, "You know, I saw your mother in the paper." But I had two good friends at school who told him to leave me alone and the teachers would stop people from talking about it too. Before my mother went to prison, social work were involved with my family and had suggested I should attend C-A-M-H-S, which is child and adolescent mental health service from age 6 or 7. Here I was diagnosed with ADHD. I struggled even in primary school and that didn't work well in groups because I didn't learn at the same pace as others and I had a special needs assistant. But I liked school and where it was living and loved my family and my grandmother. Then one day after my mother was taken away, social workers came to my nan's house and told me that I had to leave and that I only had so many days left before I had to go into residential care. I was either 10 or 11. It's hard for me to be sure because that room of life feels like a blur. I know it was towards the end of fifth class in primary school that I was taken away from my nan's. I didn't understand why and I remember crying for the whole journey to my first residential placement. There were two other boys there. I was moved schools and didn't really get any support or counseling around what was going on. What I remember most clearly from this time was the desperate feeling of wanting to go back home, to live with my nan, to attend my own school, to see my friends. When I look back, it feels like I didn't get a proper chance to say goodbye to any of these people. John Murphy from Epec stresses the trauma involved in this. I suppose there's a lot of levels there because we would say automatically a child will be traumatized from just leaving their family. From being pulled from their family, they're going to a foster placement or to go into a residential placement. That's the initial trauma. You're not even counting or looking at the reasons that they have been taken into care in the first place. There can be multiple layers of trauma. You have the trauma of leaving their home, leaving their community, most likely leaving their friends, leaving their school, leaving everything that they have known, unless they're done into care of a very early age. Then you have the traumas of why they've been brought into care in the first place, whether it's true in the late, to physical abuse, sexually abuse or whatever. So it's trauma on top of trauma, on top of trauma all the time. What we're seeing a lot now is that, especially since the start of this year, we're not sure whether it is cold with relay-hether or not, but there's a lot of placement breakdowns going on at the moment. Young people are leaving and especially coming up to the teenage years for some reason or other, those placements are breaking down. So then there's multiple placements happening for young people. Like I my young lady recently, she's had 18 placements in the last 12 months. Some of those were really, really short-term, but it's still like a copy hospital for a night or two, because they're nowhere else for a child. She came into an emergency residential placements, she came to emergency foster placements. So there's absolutely no stability for her. So then you're talking about attachment issues, then along with the trauma that's there. And then there's no stability within education, and there's no stability within her core group of friends are, and where she's gone and gone from there. And it just seems to be just one trauma on top of the other and top of the other. In the first quarter of 2020, there were 5,974 children in care, including 61 separated children seeking asylum. Over 90% were in foster care, and the most of the rest were in a residential placement. These residential placements, in children's residential services centers, according to the Department of Children, provide a physically, emotionally, and psychologically safe space in which children and young people reach their full potential in every aspect of their lives. I want to stop here and think about this word trauma. We use it all the time in our own lives. But it is a psychological term with specific meanings. And when we think about policing across this series, so many of those the police encounter have experienced trauma, and police can experience trauma in their work. So knowing what we're talking about is really key. So I'll even make the argument that police are trauma workers. The world's leading expert on trauma is Dr. Bezel van der Gok, whose book The Body Keeps the Score is a misstounding examination of what trauma is and what it does to the body and the mind. In trauma survivors, Dr. van der Gok explains, "The parts of the brain that have evolved to monitor for danger remain overactivated, and even the slightest sign of danger, real or misperceived, can trigger an acute stress response, accompanied by intense unpleasant emotions and overwhelming sensations." Such pro-straumatic reactions make it difficult for survivors to connect with other people, since closeness often triggers a sense of danger. And yet the very thing we come to dread after experiencing trauma, close contact with other people, is also the thing we most need in order to begin healing. Van der Kalk has written, "Being able to feel safe with other people is probably the single most important aspect of mental health. Safe connections are fundamental to meaningful and satisfying lives." So we have all developed very refined ways for detecting danger. We notice even the subtlest emotional shifts in those around us. We read at other persons' friendliness or their hostility in tiny cues such as brow tension, lip curvature and body angles. But one of the most pernicious effects of trauma is that it disrupts this ability to accurately read others, rendering the trauma survivor either less able to detect danger or more likely to misperceived danger when there is none. And if the person develops PTSD, a recognized medical condition, then they can experience intrusive thoughts such as flashbacks and nightmares, symptoms of avoidance, very negative thinking and moods, and substantial changes in physical and emotional reactions. Those with PTSD aren't an increased risk of depression and anxiety, issues with drug and alcohol use, eating disorders, as well as suicidal thoughts and actions. In Ireland, psychological support for children comes from calms, the children and adolescent mental health services, the service that provides assessment and treatment for young people. If we accept that children in care have experienced trauma, and if we really think about that word, what trauma means, what I can do to a person, then we really should be thinking about psychological support for these children from day one. We've also again in Epic Cahillem people. coming into the care system so it should have automatic contact with either counselor or 13 nature camps or even under the age that they have that initial support systems for themselves because it is the trauma that they're going through and a lot of them are saying like it's not only been dealt with when they're when they've left the care system then that's the stage you know and a lot of the damage too late because you're trying to repair the damage that has been done. We actually got a WhatsApp message from a young man this morning he's 24, care believer and he said the big issue for him was that he never got the mental health support that he needed. He's now living in a nice layered area he's feeling very isolated himself. He've lost any relationships that he've had. He has no friends in the area that he's living. He can barely go outside the door at this stage because of the trauma that he suffered when he was in the care system and he will only WhatsApp me about every two or three days and that's starting up again after not hearing from him from six months because he just wasn't able to do he just cannot cope. So the trauma of young people in care is to be honest is astronomical is not too bigger hard to work to say at this stage because like I said it's just layer upon layer upon layer. And are there no supports? There are supports both the supports have to be pushed hard for. Again, one of the best examples we're working with two young people we have or say hoping for six years before, four where young people in foster care could all get together and we ended up with 14 young people over about three years period and we were just talking about our experiences in care. But at that particular forward there was two young people and we were living in the same foster placement both great great young people but that been on the camps waiting this for over two years and one evening one of them just said I can't do this anymore and he went down to the local guard of baryson said I feel suicidal. So he immediately was brought into the hospital you know to do all the tests that he needed to get all the supports that he wanted but it took that level to get and he was well in tune and he knew how the system worked and he went back to the other young fellow brother who he clever and said there's how he gets camps but you shouldn't have to do that we know of certain parts of the country where waiting this for camps or 18 months to two years and in other parts you can get in with entry or four weeks so it's the disparatory it's that post called last reading you know where it depends on the area that you're living in whether you're going to get good support or not and if a young person goes into residential care it depends on the private providers that are there a lot most of the of the residents the centers in the country and our private providers so a lot will depend on the resources that they have and what they themselves actually want to put forward to support the young people and in foster placements if it's a stable foster placement and it depends whether the foster carers are engaged in wanting to go the extra mile for the young people as well so it's all very ad hoc it's not like you're going into care this is what you're automatically going together which should happen. So you're you're actually automatically at this huge disadvantage because the kid at home not in every case but in a lot of cases their parents will do that pushing work for them absolutely and get them those supports. Yeah so it depends on the professionals that are that are being involved in young people's lives and the foster carers as well and also depends on whether the young people are going to engage and if they don't want to engage they say you're not going to have that parental support that that a child in an ordinary sort of place we'll we'll get you know and the other part of this because of the placements that they've had and because of the movements that they've had the probably won't get the supports from the schools then either because they may have moved from one school to another you know and then on first they they're going to be targeted as oh this is the problem child this is the child isn't care and what can we do for them you know and then they're being extruded and they're not getting the school they're not getting the education that they're supposed to be getting they're not getting the peer support that are that they should or normally that they would have as well so everything is being pulled and again then you've got more trauma on top of the initial trauma as well it's just a cycle it just goes around and around and around and it becomes layer upon layer upon layer this cycle is ridiculously clear in Liam's story originally I was told it was a six month care order even this seems like such a long time to avoid my age it was also confusing because of my family background I didn't have a proper sense of writing wrong and this became worse for me when I was put into care because it felt like I was being punished when I had done nothing wrong I didn't go to school for the year of six class because I refused to attend a new school I wanted to go to school in my own home place where it was from I was told that applications have been made for me to attend the secondary school there but I know now that this never happened and I was lied to and I still feel a bit angry about that at the time I didn't understand why I couldn't live in the place where I'd come from and still don't fully understand it even now after the end of the six month care order I was told I would not be gone home until I was 18 11 until 18 it felt like a lifetime and I couldn't understand why I was being punished I felt really angry about this I got sent down to a school for students with special needs I lasted here for only about two weeks I acted out cause trouble I knew that it would end the placement and then I moved to a new care placement and I was out of school for another four or five months for a time I was homeschooled in the care setting this made things worse because I was in there all day with no break away from the staff which led to lots of tension and arguments I do remember having some good staff who would take me out fishing which I loved they probably did their best to make me happy but the situation was so complicated I was then brought to a youth encounter project which is a smaller school for students who have lots of needs at the first meeting they wanted me to sign up to some rules and a code of behavior and I refused to do so as an 18 year old looking back on this apparently wonders why I just didn't sign up to the rules but I think at that point I was so angry from having everybody control my life that I had too much of rules I couldn't take anymore shortly after this I was moved to another care setting up the country which was a more secure unit and had a school on the campus I was told this was necessary because I had refused to go to school and I was I was panicked at the thought of moving further away from my man and my family this for me was the war sting that could happen I said I'd sign the behavior contract for the school and I was told there was nothing they could do decision had been made this was absolutely devastating for me an attorney point really in terms of starting to get into trouble in Galway I only had supervised access with my family which was hard enough but now I would be living hours away from them I went to this care setting against my own will it was in this setting the trouble really started for me it was here far away from home that my drinking drug taking and criminal behavior started there were three units with five boys in each there was a school and a church you ate your food in a recreational area at the school it was very institutionalized you sleep there eat there go to school there I had a lot of trouble with the staff there and most of this was triggered by me wanting to go home I'd want to go I'd be told I couldn't I remember sometimes it would be bedtime and I'd want to go out so I'd act out and I'd be restrained and try and fight my way out of the situation I'd also break windows and cause damage on the campus myself another young people would have scanned and go drinking which would also involve stealing in order to get access to the alcohol when I think back on this time using alcohol was the only way I could escape what was going on in my head I was building up so many criminal charges you'd break a window fight a member of staff during a restraint and two weeks later you'd hear you had a charge at the time I couldn't see the consequences of all this I just wanted to be free it was all about surviving in the moment I remember a time in this setting where it felt like I was doing quite well I remember we were having a barbecue that day we were preparing for that I was told by staff I had to go to the Garda station to sign some forms but when I got there I was told I needed to go to court I was 14 at this time I had no understanding of my rights and I went along with this I know now that this wasn't right I should have received the summons to come to court and I don't see any reason why I had to be brought by the Garda rather than appear myself with a Guardian now that I'm older I understand that the staff probably didn't tell me what was happening to stop me from acting out or running away but I still don't believe that it was right to be lied to this was my first court appearance and I was being remanded to a juvenile detention facility for three months I was told that I was being used as an example to the other boys in the care placement It was really surreal to be handcuffed and on my way to detention at age 14. I expected it to look like a secure care unit. Boy, it was shocked when I saw it because it was more secure and how he'd take than the adult prison I'd seen. I'd been to prisons many times to visit my mother. First I was brought to a search room where I had to be searched along with my clothes and possessions. I also had a urine test. I was brought to the cell immediately and told the rules. My mental state was also assessed and I was offered something to eat and drink. The staff were nice to me that first day but I was still terrified. I had to be kept on my own for two days before I could mix with anyone else. Then I was gradually mixed into the group who were unremanned. Most of the rest of the group are older than me. In this setting everyone is trying to assert their dominance. I just tried to keep my head down. When I came out on bail I broke the conditions and was remanded again two weeks later and spent another three months on remand. After I came out from the second three months on remand I moved away from this residential setting and back to Galway. I remember this as such a happy time because this placement itself had felt like a prison and was way worse than being a remand at the detention center. I firmly believe that this placement resulted in me spending time and detention. I had up to thirty charges by the time I left this placement. In some ways things settled down for me a bit when I returned to Galway and to a different and smaller care setting. I was looking to re-enter education and asked about a particular center that my sister had attended. I was told an application had been made. Later a support worker appointed to me by a program called Creative Community Alternatives physically took me to the center to ask for a place. We found out at this point that no application had been made by the care setting. If not for this support worker I'm not sure I would have re-engaged with education at all. I started attending education and things were a bit better but I was still using drugs and alcohol and I feel I was very much addicted by the time and began using heavier drugs. There was an incident one day when I was driven back from access in my home place where I threatened staff or a weapon and wanted them to give me the care that we're driving. I regret this incident to this day but I can forgive myself for it now and say that I know I'm not a bad person. I just feel that this was about being heavily under the influence of drugs. This incident resulted in me being sent to a detention on remand again for just a week on this occasion. I came out ready for a fresh start. I had an education placement. I had a support worker and a social worker who were on my side but this was new to me. I was used to feeling that people were against me. For the first time it felt like professionals working with me were trying to keep me away from trouble rather than get me into trouble. I didn't get my fresh start. I was called to a court up the country to face charges from two years ago in the residential setting where it since left and returned to Galway. Because of the way the justice system works and the fact that things are always delayed, myself and the professionals involved with me felt like I was going up to get these charges dealt with and move out my life. But when I was walking into the court one of the officials said to me that he hoped I had my bags packed because I was going away. This was said in the presence of my social worker and support worker. Reference was made in the court to me breaking bail conditions. A staff member from the care setting rang Galway for records of the night in question and confirmed I'd not broken my corphew. I felt very angry that lawyers were being told again. I was sentenced to two years in juvenile detention with one suspended. This was based on charges from when I was 14-15. At this point I was 16, close to turning 17. I went from the court to the guard station to Dublin, had unpacked a bag and I wasn't ready to say goodbye to anyone. In either way the professionals working with me were all shocked at this outcome. I had no time to mentally prepare for going to detention on this sentence which was very difficult. At the same time I was less scared of going because I'd been there before. When I got there initially I didn't come out of my room for four days. I felt really depressed and I just wanted to be alone. The other young people were coming around and saying it would be okay and to come out which I appreciated but I was still trying to get my head around being there for a year. I had a rocky enough start and got involved with some trouble where property damage was caused which resulted in a further charge. I did find some of the staff very difficult. They were acting like prison officers and not carewalkers. Other staff members were much better to deal with. With difficult staff you could be sent to yourself for three or four hours for things like using bad language. You had to have a talk before coming back out and if they felt you were being difficult during this conversation you'd be sent back into your cell again. There were other staff who were really different to this and they did have a better approach. The most difficult thing about detention is not having all your rights and freedoms. There always been told what to do where to go and you know that if you don't that force can be used and sometimes handcuffs could be brought out. The other most difficult thing is missing your family and friends. I had visits from professionals, my social worker, support worker, staff from my education setting. They were allowed to meet me face to face. I had very few family visits because I found these two difficult. And though I really missed my nan I asked her not to come and visit. This was because I was telling her that things were better for me than they were and I wanted her to believe the best so she would be okay. I had a few visits with my sister but these had to be through a screen and I found this impossible. I was told that if I had a number of screen visits and built some trust things would move on but I just couldn't face any more screen visits. I was used to visiting my mother in prison and being able to sit with her without a screen so I couldn't get my head around this. After a while I started to get with the program. I tried to focus on my education as this was a goal and it gave me something to do. Because of the length of my sentence I knew I would be there for me junior cert and I wanted to get this completed and it was much better to go to school as otherwise you'd be spending much more time in your cell. I ended up spending nine months in detention. When I looked back at it there were positives and negatives and I've talked about the negatives. What was positive for me was the feeling of being safer. Saving in my own head and from getting into trouble and from using drugs. In a way I found less frustrating than being in residential care which at times felt like being in prison anyway. At least when I was in detention I knew for certain that I couldn't go home. It was less frustrating than residential care in that everyone in charge and making the decisions was in the one place. One of the very frustrating things about care is that you feel like you're always waiting for things to be clear through your social worker or other professions and all of this takes a lot of time. The fact that he was building up criminal charges is a huge issue for children in care. John told us that children who go missing from care are brought to the attention of guardian. So if they're missing for I think it's more than 40 years there was a stage. The statutory obligation is that the foster care is the residential centers and social workers have to not fight the guardian that the young person has been missing. So they're then known to guardian in that stage. And most times these children go to their original home when they go missing. But if the guards have to be called in these children become known to guardian and often chalk down as trouble makers. And sometimes the guard of response to such children can seem very extreme in one such case. The person had a blackout in the public area, came to did not know where they were. And kind of went off the rails for a sharp period of time. They're not in two series and this young person's not a big strapping person like that slight build. But the armed response units were called to bring that person back. And then that person was brought to hospital for two weeks for a young person to be brought by the armed response unit. And they told me like they were held on the ground. I think for a taken record was 15 or 20 minutes now. It may not have been that period of time, but that was their perception of it. And like if you were being held down by four or five guard and they've got guns and everything else and even just the noise and that's what this young person said was just the noise and the chaos and the extremities of it and how extreme it was to bring them back again was completely and utterly out of order. Like it just made no sense. And that has had a huge impact on their mental health over the last couple of months as well. Because they're saying, "Am I this dangerous?" And on meeting this person, you're thinking, "Absolutely certain, I would know this young person for three or four years of this stage, advocates for them on numerous occasions, the part of other force that we had as well." And there's no way you would think that they're in any danger to either themselves or to anybody else. Yes, something happened that night, but certainly to get an armed response, scarred the unit out for them was just completely overboard. Lay your on top of that, the fact that for children in care, their behavior is more quickly considered criminal. Private drone residents to centers, if there's any property damage done there, immediately the guardian will be caught. Because they're profit-making organizations, money has to be looked after, and any damage done, they will see that as a criminal offense. And then it depends whether how hard they want to push that then or not, whether the young people will be jailed, or whether a case will be taken against them in some stage. When a working residential property damage was a big thing, was at that stage because a lot of the homes were toost around, or well, it would have been HSC in those days, but because they were run by the government organizations and the child agencies, you're less likely to have charges taken against young people, whereas if they're profit organizations and they're private residents and centers, they more than likely will inform the guardian. And then you would more than likely that child will go missing some other stage so that the young person is the entire, that's the trouble that the young people living in, in the care home, we're still living here in where some people are calling them orphanages. You know, like we haven't had an orphanage in the early since the 1970s. So it's the stigma that's there for young people. You know, so you're talking about being not a guardee, if they've got missing, which seems to be for some reason or primarily young girls that go missing far more often than the boys do. And properly damage then on the other hand, that would be more sensibly with boys, with her, where I know a couple of years ago I was working with a young man, and the owner of the private residential center wanted to attend that young fellow child in care reviews because of the damage that had been done to their house. And the guards were also at the child in care review. So you're thinking this makes absolutely no sense. So again, the young fellow is completely stigmatized. He's still let down by the system that's in place for him. And the guardee and the residential center have another trouble maker. So again, he's in danger of losing his place there. He'll be put up for some who else to go to, but then no other residential center would take him. And he certainly won't get a foster test because he would be named. And if it's set fire to anything, not a hope of getting anywhere for them. So young people, and unfortunately, the age seems to be decreasing on these as well, where young people are becoming well known to the guardee at this stage. And it doesn't look good for them then. When they're hitting 17 or 18 or turning 18, hopefully they haven't got a criminal record, but the guards will know who they are. And they have not that they're tired of this, but they certainly won't get the same breaks as a young person living at home would. - I really struggle with this. A child is remuted from their own home and family, supposedly for their own good, but they leave there with all kinds of trauma. They do not get the psychological treatment they need for that trauma. And when they behave in entirely predictable ways, rather than being helped, they are criminalized. - Like if a young person at home did properly damage the head of wall or damage something in the house, I've yet to know of parents that have called the guards on their own children. Like it would be an extreme case. When I was 20 years ago, since I worked in residential care, but we were always taught that you treat with the young people like you would treat your own children. So I still haven't heard of any parents that have called the guards on their own children or say, "Here, just because you've done some bit damage to the house." Now damage can be extreme, but that's what insurance is for. You shouldn't have to call the guardee, and you shouldn't have to call the guards to try and control the young person. We've often heard all the wrong control, they're dangerous themselves, they're dangerous somebody else. People are paid professions working in these areas that have been trained. And again, some of the time it's advocating responsibility for themselves, but certainly young people in care have far more incidents with the guardee than children who are living in their own place. And the standards again for young people for the guards to be called on them or to be brought into a certain situation is certainly far lower than a person living in their own place. And then it's the fear of that as well. And then especially with young boys to have to put on that much of behavior that they're not going to be afraid of the guards coming in. So then that breaks down any relationship that that young person can have with the guardee later on as well. He sees them as a threat. And they then become the enemies so there's going to be no collaboration there. And the guards are going to see him, this is a troublemaker we've seen them before. He did such a thing down below the carous redamage, houses were damaged or whatever. And he's just his name, they're then straight away. But certainly young people in the care system have far more contact with the guardee than children. We should all be very concerned if not shocked, but a child can say that a detention center wasn't some ways better than care. But he felt safer, had more certainty, was less frustrated. And you really are left wondering if Liam had received deep psychological treatment when he was removed from home, would things have been different. How much of his behavior was an inevitable response to the trauma, uncertainty, chaos, and lack of stability in his life. And that's before we start thinking about the intergenerational trauma. What if his mother's life had been looked at or his father's, what if they were given that treatment? I'm on a different path now. I have a new place to live. I've been through an addiction program. I'm an education and I'm due to sit my leaving certificate in June, which is going to open up other opportunities for my life. One of the things I'd like to study psychology because I can relate to how the human mind works and can be impacted by things that go on in someone's life. The professionals that I've talked about who started work with me when I was 16, they're still with me, even though I've turned 18. They show me real care, they never judge me. And at my lowest moments, gave me the reason to stay alive and keep going. But the main reason I'm here today is that not every young person who has a journey like mine comes out the other side and then any kind of positive place. I hope my experience could help people with power make better decisions about how to deal with children and young people in the care system, detention system, school systems, and all the other areas that affect their lives. Liam wrote this piece over a year ago and is now in prison. There are obviously huge questions from this about how we treat children born into families with these struggles. But there are huge questions of how Gardie get involved and how that changes children's lives. This is not necessarily a criticism of the guards. One can see how they are called to what does technically constitute a crime and they may be required to respond in certain ways. But there are cultural concerns raised by John about these children being seen as troublemakers and there are structural issues about why in our state there is a police response to mental health issues rather than a medical one. We wouldn't hear about this if Liam hadn't been happy to share his experience. We hope he gets the support and treatment he needs to recover and find peace in himself. Thanks also to John Murphy of Epic for giving us these insights into the system and we don't always hear a lot about it. Michael Sheehan, thank you for reading this piece with the sincerity required. Thanks as ever to Tony Groves and Brianne who grew his head for their excellent work in producing this. Next week we'll be looking at the policing of the water protests speaking to some of those who were involved and charged. Please support the show by rating us wherever you listen and by sharing these stories with your friends. You can follow us on Twitter, a police department guest. To support this work, please donate the price of a cup of coffee a month at patreon.com/tourdeshack.

Podcast Summary

Key Points:

  1. Liam's childhood trauma began when his mother was imprisoned, leading to his removal from his grandmother's care and placement into the residential care system.
  2. Children in care often experience layered trauma from separation, instability, and lack of psychological support, which increases their risk of criminalization for behaviors that might be handled differently in a family home.
  3. The care and justice systems can fail these traumatized youth through instability, inadequate mental health services, and procedures that further alienate them, as seen in Liam's path from care to a juvenile detention facility.
  4. Expert analysis highlights that trauma impairs the ability to feel safe and accurately assess danger, with PTSD leading to long-term mental health risks, underscoring the critical need for immediate and consistent therapeutic support from the point of entry into care.

Summary:

This podcast episode features Liam's account of his journey through Ireland's care and justice systems. After his mother's imprisonment, Liam was removed from his grandmother's home and placed into residential care at age 10 or 11, experiencing profound trauma from the separation and instability. He describes how multiple placement breakdowns and a lack of consistent psychological support exacerbated his distress.

His anger and sense of injustice led to school refusal and behavioral issues, resulting in his transfer to a secure care unit far from his family. There, his substance use and criminal behavior began, leading to charges for actions like property damage during restraints. At 14, he was unexpectedly taken to court and remanded to a juvenile detention facility, which he found more severe than adult prison.

The narrative is contextualized by insights from John Murphy of Epic, who explains the compounded trauma faced by children in care and the systemic failures in providing timely mental health services and stability, creating a cycle that predisposes them to criminalization. The discussion underscores trauma's impact on perception and the urgent need for systemic reform to support these vulnerable youths from the outset.

FAQs

The podcast aims to capture and share personal experiences that individuals have with the police in Ireland, particularly through stories from diverse backgrounds.

Trauma disrupts a child's ability to accurately perceive safety and danger, often leading to emotional and behavioral issues. It can result from multiple layers of adverse experiences, including separation from family and unstable placements.

Access to psychological support like CAMHS is often inconsistent, with long waiting times varying by region. Many children do not receive timely help, leading to unresolved trauma that persists into adulthood.

Children in care can face charges for behaviors that might be handled differently in a home environment, partly due to systemic factors and the trauma they've experienced, which can lead to acting out.

Frequent placement changes prevent stability in education, friendships, and support systems, exacerbating trauma and attachment issues. This instability can contribute to a cycle of behavioral and emotional difficulties.

Entering detention is described as surreal and intimidating, with procedures like searches and isolation. For young people, it can feel more secure than adult prisons and often occurs without full understanding of their rights.

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