Plastic Surgery Exposed: Embracing the “Natural” Trend, The Risks of Injectables & Celebrity Transformations with Dr. Christian Subbio

The following podcast is a deer media production. Welcome to RealPod. It's your host, Victoria Garrick Brown, and this is the podcast where we hold nothing back. Oh, so we're getting deep, huh? I've really cried for 12 days straight. Why do I want to be perfect? There's nothing in my life that is perfect. Every week, I'll bring you honest, unfiltered, and eye-opening conversations to help uncover the real in all of us. I crave the type of content that you're talking about. I actually felt insecure. Oh, my God, am I going to cry? Let me just unload everything. New episodes every Wednesday leave those filters at the door, because it's time to get real. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to RealPod. Today's episode is a full circle moment, because I'm welcoming back plastic surgeon Dr. Christian Tsubio to the podcast. Dr. Tsubio is board certified in plastic and reconstructive surgery by the prestigious American board of plastic surgery, and he prides himself on being a safe, meticulous, perfectionist, and also with a huge heart and care for his patients. I follow Dr. Tsubio's Instagram. It's doctor.subio. He has over 230,000 followers. I love his content. He's so refreshing, because he also is everyday commenting on the ridiculous beauty standards, the trends, the plastic surgery, mishaps, the warnings, the advice, all the time on social media. And so I'm super thankful for his transparency there as an expert. So if you're not following his page, definitely check it out, Dr. Tsubio. I love it. He came on the pod a few years ago, and he is back. And today we're going to talk about the biggest changes he's seen in the industry over the past few years. We're going to talk about different celebrity plastic surgeries and his speculations and commentary, such as Chris Jenner, Bradley Cooper, Bella Hadid, so stay tuned for those. He's going to tell you his advice on the things you should avoid or be very cautious of if you ever do consider getting plastic surgery. And overall, him and I are just going to have a really well-rounded in-depth conversation about this industry, the beauty standard, the different trends. And I think you're going to find this episode incredibly thought-provoking, as no matter where we look or what we do, the beauty standard will always be, unfortunately, all around us. So without further ado, please help me welcome Dr. Christian Tsubio. Dr. Tsubio, welcome back. It's been three years. It has been three years. You've got married in the meantime. Congratulations. Thank you. And you had a baby? Yeah, look at my wife. Yeah, but I'm going to take credit for all the hard work she put it. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how time flies and I just enjoyed our episode the first time so much. And I think it's just so cool that your plastic surgeon who also provides like really transparent commentary on the industry is just so unique and I respect you for it. And so I was like, we need to touch base because a lot's transpired. Also, look, I mean, I'm always flattered when anyone wants to hear anything I have to say, but especially you, for what I understand, you're just a couple of plastic surgeons out there. You could have reached out through. So I'm always flattered that you would be interested in anything I might have to say. So thanks for having me on. Of course. So maybe quickly, could you just recap us again with how you got into this business for anyone who missed the first episode? Yeah. So it's weird. I almost didn't buy for when I was in grade school, high school. I was always pegged to be an artist. I love cartooning. I love drawing, painting, all that stuff. And I know every plastic surgeon says that I'm an artist, I'm an artist. But I actually almost went to art school, went down the creative path. And somehow I think I saw like a cleft lip documentary or something when I was in high school. And I'm like, you know what? Maybe I'll do acts. I didn't know what the hell to do. I mean, what am I going to do? Like paint, I had no guidance from any art mentors about what to do with that. So I was like, okay, I'm getting good grades enough for med schools. So why don't I go that route, do plastic surgery? And it sounds kind of cliche. A lot of plastic surgeons talk like this, like let's make the body, the human canvas. But that was the idea. No idea what I was getting into and like 15 years later finally became a plastic surgeon. And so that's where I'm at now. But that's I think why I approached the industry from a maybe a little bit different angle than many of my colleagues who are a bit more academic, a bit more stuffy. I try not to take it too seriously. And I feel like that comes through in your page and who you are. Like it's really authentic. So I buy. That's why we buy, like, yeah, I think that's why I enjoyed our conversation. So like maybe you did too, like the first time we talked, I've always appreciated your content. I think both of us are aiming to speak the same language of authenticity. And that's why we each had some degree of success in this industry. Like so many other people are about this glam and filter and this in all. So I think authenticity really matters. And it's scary too. I mean, I posted something about Serena Williams's like persistent row commercials. And I was nervous to do so. But then once I finally did, my audience was like, thank you for speaking up on this because like no one else will. And I wonder what it's like for you. Do you find that other plastic surgeons are like, so be out. Why are you posting these things? Why are you speaking out about against these things when you're in it like us? Well, I think, you know, when I first started, it's been a while. It time flies. It's like I first got into Instagram around 10 years ago. And at that time, not a lot of my colleagues were doing this stuff. It was kind of looked down upon, you know, my God, they're dancing around. I never quit the dancing type, but they got posted funny stuff. I cast on myself. And I think a lot of my colleagues look down on that and they're like, well, they almost considered it lowbrow and low and behold, 10 years later, now the game has changed completely. And all of my colleagues are doing it. Even these stuffy academics are now like dancing on TikTok because again, they realize that authenticity matters still to your question. A lot of them will say like, my God, like you're pushing it too far. Don't question the industry, don't question the narrative too much or more common when I go to meetings and conferences and stuff. People like, oh my God, thank you for saying it's what all of us are thinking. And I'm like, well, why don't you say it? Right. It's like the industry is not like a Lafayette so Don or something. I'm no one's going to put a hit out on me. Just say what you think. I cannot stand being told what to say or that I cannot express myself how I want to express myself. So that's kind of why I am the way I am and I don't imagine you're saying the same way. You just, you have to be authentic, right? It just isn't incredible feeling, but I think once you unlock for yourself, there's kind of no going back once you take that courage to step forward and you really embrace yourself for who you are, what you're feeling. I just can't imagine going back. And so to me, I feel like it's like addicting to like where my heart on my sleeve. Right. You're vulnerable at first. It's a little bit scary. But like you said, the first time you do it, you're like, you wait for the smoke to clear and you're like, oh my God, it's fine. No one came after me. And yeah, you're going to get the haters. But I just read a awesome quote the other day on Instagram said like, it's a badge of pride to be hated by losers and people who would critique you putting an authentic self out there are just losers. Someone that would critique the way you look or the way you talk or the way you present yourself. It's, I don't have time for that. Yeah. I completely agree. And then to what you said about even the stuffy plastic surgeons posting on Instagram, they're just realizing, oh, hey, that's where the business is these days. Like people are scrolling and looking up upper bluff or BBL or Botox or lip injections. And they're seeing the account that has the most followers and the best lips. And then they're booking there. They're not calling in the phone book anymore going on the websites. So I think that's also changed the industry as well. It's just like wanting your business to be searchable. Could you just rattle off the types of procedures that you do for our audience to just familiarize? I mean, look, when I first got out of med school residency and all the training, I did everything head to toe. Plastic surgeons do a lot of stuff that people don't realize. We, you know, I did hand surgery. I did nerve surgery. I did breast reconstruction facelifts, pressure, bed sores, all types of wounds. Plastic surgeons operate all over the body. And I loved doing the breast reconstruction when I moved closer back home to the Philadelphia area. There was lots of breast surgeons, lots of academic institutions and I'm just a private practice out in the burbs. So I had to pivot into cosmetics because it was such a competitive breast reconstruction market. But I'm like, okay, you know, I'm going to leave it to the academics on that. So I pivoted into cosmetic surgery and then I was doing everything, popped the bottom, faces, noses, eyes, ears, everything. And now I found my niche work for me is breast and body work in particular. And I like that. I like focusing on one thing I'm somewhat known for my tummy talks. So I love being a real expert at one or two or three things rather than trying to be a jack of all trades. And there's nothing wrong with that either. It's just I just love being super focused. Yeah. But I think that makes sense. And honestly, as a customer, not that I have been a customer of plastic surgery, but as someone out there, I would appreciate that like I'm with someone who specializes in this and not someone who like had did it six months ago and they did it well. Like, I'm like, no, I want you to wake up and do this every day if you're going to do it on me. That's why I tell people if you're looking to do something for yourself, it's like, you definitely want someone who can demonstrate the volume and expertise in one certain area. And look out lowly, in the middle of Nebraska, it's going to be harder to find a plastic surgeon. If you're in LA, you're going to have surgeons on every corner. But even then, I would travel. I would hop on a plane like you want to get the stuff gone right the first time. Yeah. So obviously, as we said, it's been three years since we last chatted. We talked a little bit about just now the way that the industry's been evolving in terms of plastic surgeons themselves having a presence on social media. But I'm curious, what do you think have been some of the biggest changes you've seen over the past few years that have to do with the beauty standard, filters, and kind of all that? You know, I think some of the biggest pushes, it happens in both surgical and non-surgical, so that's the way I view it. They're very different focuses, fossil bioplastic surgery. They overlap, of course, but non-surgical for me is where the biggest changes have happened because around the time of the pandemic, everyone was awful work. They were saving money. They weren't going out. They could recover after a lip injection or whatnot. So there was this glut of plastic surgery of injectables, not both surgical and non-surgical, but for me, I thought it was most impressive, the non-surgical boom. And everyone's on Instagram talking about full facial balancing and liquid facelips and this and that and a salmon sperm facial and now peptides and biogennerative. There's so much stuff being thrown at you. So much stuff. And I think a couple of years ago, there was a trend towards overdoing everything. People got way too excited about demonstrating an impressive result a while before and after. So they had the biggest lips, the most sculpted cheekbones, the most defined jawline, the biggest breast toy. Oh, it was in excess of everything. And I think now we're starting to see the consequences of that, where people are starting to wake up and realize, you know, maybe it wasn't a good idea to have my face punked with 10 CCs of filler every year and topped off every six months. Maybe I'm not going for the giant lips hanging off my face. Everything is swinging back, thankfully. I think the pendulum is swinging back towards a more natural aesthetic. You know, a lot of people are getting their BBLs reversed. A lot of people are taking out their breast implants. And look, that's bad for my business. I don't care. I just want whatever healthy for people overall. There's enough business in this industry. But I think that's the biggest trend is a return to what is normal. And thankfully, people are starting people like yourself and many other people on social media are starting to discuss the downsides of plastic surgery and the downsides of holding yourself to this impossibly filtered standard. This episode of RealPod is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince so much. I have cashmere sweaters from Quince. I have my clogged shoes from Quince. I have sunglasses. I just got a gorgeous leather belt. Quince just makes high quality wardrobe staples using premium fabrics, like 100% European linen, 100% silk, and organic cotton poplin. And everything feels so luxurious. And Quince works directly with safe ethical factories and cuts out the middle man. So that's why their prices are so amazing because we're not paying for a brand markup or a fancy retail store. We're just paying for quality clothing. And it's not just me. I mean, Quince clothing is consistently rated 4.5 to 5 stars by thousands of customers. 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And then they'll use their over 12 years of experience in industry leading match fulfillment rate, which means they typically get a rate the first time to ensure your setup. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch therapists at any time. And with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. They've served over 6 million people globally. When life feels overwhelming, therapy can help. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/RealPod. That's BetterHelp, BetterHELP.com/RealPod Honestly, that's made me so happy to see, like some influencers I follow, they're getting out their filler, they're getting out their breast implants. And I think it's just like anything in life. It's so crazy how they goes back the pendulum. But it is so important because like that trend at the time was so unhealthy. The way people were just doing it to do it and not realizing like the permanent consequences. And even, are you familiar with the secret life of Mormon wives? Yes, I am. Yes, my wife watches. She's up to date on a lot of this stuff. Yeah. So Jesse Draper, one of the moms from Mormon wives, who is so sweet, I've been grateful to meet her. She's been super transparent about just recently doing a lot to her face and being really unhappy with the results. And it's like on the one hand, I'm like so sad for her. I can't even imagine I couldn't get plastic surgery on my face because I would just be worried that like, I wouldn't look the same. And she's going through that. But I'm grateful that she's talking about it because it's like a cautionary tale. Yeah. Again, I always appreciate celebrities being transparent to your point because so many celebrities out there or anything but they are opaque. They will not get on an Instagram live without a heavy filter. All of their pictures are heavily airbrushed and just super misleading, creating this unrealistic body standard. So when you do have a celebrity coming out, and again, it's vulnerable to have to put yourself out there and say, I don't feel good about the way I look, but whatever the cause, it is, it's incredibly appreciated. And it does highlight that look, plastic surgery is surgery. And it's not something to be tripled with. And you really have to have good communications with your surgeons. You have to have the expectations well set. I mean, I have seen pictures of her. And I think she said she was botched or she feels like she looks horrendous. Not first off, I did look before Nept is her and like, she's a beautiful woman. And I hope she does not feel botched. She may feel that she looks slightly different than before. And I hope she doesn't perseverate on that because she is still beautiful. But again, it just speaks to the finesse, the sensitivity of the face. I understand where you're coming from 100%. You have to think of 10 times before you do something to your face because, you know, you could perceive a millimeter difference on someone's, you know, if there's a celebrity and you're used to seeing him or her every day. And then one day they're in a press release or something and they're eyelid. They're can't feel sweet. It's just a millimeter off. Or you're used to where their brows sit on their face. And one day you see them in an interview and it's they have a slight peak. Yeah. You're going to notice it more so than any other part of the body. And so that's why it is so so so sensitive to the human eye. Human eyes evolve over millions and millions of years to recognize a face better than anything else. Yeah. So by the same token, you're able to recognize the slightest difference. So you really have to do your homework. You really have to have good conversations and really take the stuff seriously. And nowadays the internet is relentless and everyone's like a sleuth. So we have pictures of you the last time you made an appearance and we will cross reference those to make our own like assumptions about what's happened. I feel like I saw that with Bradley Cooper. Like I don't clock that stuff super easily, but it was like he like made an appearance and it was all I saw in TikTok was like his eyes, his eyes, his eyes. And I'm like, oh my god, if I went and thought I got a secret surgery and came out and everyone was saying that I feel brutal. It's I I hear you 100%. You know, it's one of my mind because I'm going to make a video about now everyone's guessing about Margot Robbie. I'm not sure if you've seen this or saying she had buckle fat removal. I don't think she has. I think she's gorgeous and I hate when people are picking people apart, man or woman, but especially women because women have a top already. But I'm looking at her like myself. I mean, I haven't had buckle fat removal and my face is, you know, there's shadows there that weren't there three or five years ago because I'm getting slightly older. Your face thins out as you age. She's had some weight fluctuations. I think she had a kid. The lighting is slightly different from the pictures they're showing. She's smiling in the fourth and she's not smiling in the afters. Yeah, all these things are different. And of course for engaging content, people are hopping on it like, oh my god, she had a buckle fat removal. I don't think she did. And like, imagine how she waking up and all of a sudden the headlines are saying she had surgery, she looks horrible. Right. She doesn't. She's beautiful. And she probably she's just aging. We all age. The thing is to like, you never know. If I agree with you there, you know, I'm going to trust your eye. It's like hypothetically speaking. Could she have like quickly done a little GLP one before this press? And like, that gave her the little bit of a sunken face, but she's always been skinny. So no one's going to be like, she took a weight loss drug like we have no idea what these celebrities are doing at the end of the day. You're right. And she could have. I don't know. And she may not have. I don't know. It's so easy to construct a narrative based on a photo from her last appearance at the Conte Film Festival and then finding another picture from two years ago, where she's smiling in better light and maybe she was just off a week of vacation or something. It's like you can't compare these things unless you have some real standardized before and after where the lighting expression, everything else is the same. And people are creating these stories based on photos which can't really be compared. Yeah. And then it's like, I have to imagine some of these like really beautiful people like Margarabi is one. But even like Haley Bieber, I'll see people trying to say Haley Bieber did all this. I'm like, sadly, I just think she's like God's gift. I think she always look that gorgeous. I think she's just matured. There's a certain satisfaction to that every day person like myself looking at some gorgeous celebrity, be like, they can't have those kind of genius. They can't be that big. They must have done X, Y or Z. So I don't know. You can't win either way, I guess. Now, do you find that you've ever had to like talk people out of surgery or tell them that the surgery they want isn't going to give them the fix they think it will all the time. As part of my practice, it's something I tried myself on is, you know, I have like these gorgeous women come to me, women of all shapes, sizes, colors, and like half the time I'm telling them, I don't think you need this or maybe wait another five years or something. I think if you're going to go to a plastic surgeon, you want to go to someone who's, you know, a few years out of residency has built up their practice enough to the point where they're successful enough, where they're not like starving for the business, because that's when people start or some people are just greedy. You know, if you're, you know, 32 years old and someone suggesting a deep plane facelift for you, like, you got to think twice. You can't be predatory with your patients. I find that when I am honest with patients and say, look, you don't need this. Wait a couple of years or you don't need this at all. It actually helps my business because it builds trust. And next time when they maybe they couldn't benefit from something, they'll come back to me because they know I'm honest. Where when their friend comes to them and says, I might, what, go to Dr. Silvio, because he'll be honest till tell you if you need it. So in the short term, I may lose business, but like I said before, there's enough people wanting this kind of stuff where there's enough business for everybody. And at the end of the night, I'd rather make less money and be able to be able to sleep at night. Yeah. Yeah. Which is so important. I'm so glad you're that way. You mentioned a deep plane facelift. What do you think of the work of Christian or a facelift? Because I mean, that was sorcery. Oh, it's beautiful. Now with a caveat, because it is a gorgeous top tier surgery. And Dr. Levine does beautiful work, top tier work. That said, you have to realize, again, in creating unrealistic standards, that a lot of these photos that I see of her after are a beautiful top tier facelift plus a filter plus perfect lighting. Yeah. Plus Kardashian angles and all that. So what is top tier beautiful 10 out of 10 work suddenly becomes 13 out of 10 work and perhaps unrealistic to the average amount of woman seeking a facelift because that's where things become so confusing. And even for myself, like you don't know what to trust anymore. And AI is already upon us changing the way we view these before and after is you can't trust anything. You have to realize if something looks impossibly good, if the average facelift is some of them are five somewhere six to somewhere out of 10s as far as the result. And then you have one that's like 78 out of 10. Suddenly, it's like out of the rest of the pack. You have to your red flags have to go up and say, okay, is this an amazing result? Is there also a filter? Is there also a better lighting? And again, I sound like a academic door here, but it's like this underscores the importance of standardized before and afters don't go judging a surgical or non-surgical result based on a selfie in a car with perfect lighting and a filter. Totally. And I definitely agree with you that some of those glam pictures right after the facelift were not like raw organic image. Possibly good at all. I mean, they had the beauty filter 100%. I'm curious, could you even estimate how much that facelift probably cost or a range? You know, it's funny. I follow and friends with some of these surgeons who charge six figures for plastic surgery for facelifts in particular. And some of them are 100,000. Some of them are 150. Some are 250,000 dollars. Some are more. And one of my friends, who's a facial plastic surgeon, who charges six figures. Recently, I was looking at this page beautiful before and after and someone commented, well, yeah, that's what you get for a, you know, $200,000 facelift, which is unethical. And I'm thinking to myself, like, look, is it really unethical? I get it. It's high. Obviously, you know, who can afford a $200,000 facelift? But it has me thinking, is it unethical? And I don't think so. Look, if this were selling a diabetes treatment, if this were selling some like-saving cancer drug or for HIV or something, yes, entirely unethical. But at the end of the day, and I can't unbiased here, if people can disagree with me on this, but plastic surgery is a luxury spend. So I've never heard someone complain about a Birken bag being unethical or a $500 bottle of wine being unethical. Everything else in the world, if it's a luxury service, in the end, the free market is the free market. If a surgeon can deliver results that are 20% better than the rest of surgeons consistently and safely, then it's up to the patients whether or not they want to spend how much for that extra 10 or 20% that doesn't make them unethical. And if their work isn't good enough, then they will lose the business and they can't maintain that. The only problem I have is when people are again selling their results as being 10 times better via misleading angles or lighting or filter, then I have a real problem with that. That's not being honest. But as long as they are being honest in showcasing their before-and-afters, then they can charge whatever they want. It's a free country. It's a luxury service. You know, people can afford it great, but I will say this, you don't need to spend, you know, $500,000 on a facelift. You can find comparable results, or, you know, still should load a money, you know, $30,000, $50,000. But if you do your homework, you can find comparable results, or less. 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They have triple bio-max magnesium, which is a powerful complex to calm the central nervous system and prepare the body for sleep. And it just turns down the dial on stress, ensuring the deepest recovery so you can wake up feeling clear, restored and ready. Redefine your standard, secure 20% off your order and begin your intentional wellness journey today at peaklife.com/realpod. That's peak PIQUE life.com/realpod. What are some of the things that you are like young girls listening? Please steer clear. Please don't fall into the trap. You know, we hear so much about the filler in the face and the different types of implants. So what do you want to warn us about in the fatherly way? I think it all starts with, you know, self-acceptance. The biggest thing, because like we could talk about any one of dozens and dozens of different things that like a warn people about. But I think it all comes back to having a reasonable degree of self acceptance. We all have things. Myself included that we'd like to change about ourselves. And a couple years ago, I did a couple hair grafts. So like back here, my hairline, I was like, why don't I do the sooner? Is it always bothered me? Is it a big deal? No, who cares? Like I did it. I was very happy. Like that's a healthy way to approach something. But I think the beauty industry and social media, it is so horrible for young women in particular. That's why I love your pages. Authentic and its body positive because it's been shown, studies have shown that the rates of depression, anxiety, self hatred, self harm are through the roof now. And it all points to social media. So even before you start thinking about what XYZ procedure you might entertain, realize that everything is filtered. Nothing is real. Even many beauty influencers who come to see me for little tweaks, you know, if you were to look at their pages, everything is in the most like impossible light. And they come to my office and they're still gorgeous women. But you know, the real people, it's not like what's shown on the screen. So I think more so than anything, just realize that all the stuff you're seeing, all the glam that you're saying on social media in particular, it's all filtered. None of it real. No one's happy with the way they look. So maybe start with, you know, step one, trying to accept yourself the way you are because to your point about the, you know, the real housewife, she's looking back now. I think verbatim. She said, like, oh my god, why did I ever do this? You know, like, I love the way I look before. So I mean, that, I think is the most important message of realized that if anyone's glamming it up on social media, that they're not any happier than you are. And they're probably don't look as glam as they do in their Instagram feed. Yeah. No, I think that's so important. I completely agree. I think that's number one. And I do want to press you on maybe some specific things because I'm sure you maybe have a feel. I do lots of injectables. Now look, surgery can be dangerous. You can have complications with surgery. You can have bad results with surgery. You can have bad results with fillers and Botox and lasers and whatnot. I think for me, and this isn't because I'm a surgeon, I do lots of injectables and lasers and all that. But I think those are the biggest risk because of the way they are sold to people on social media. It's posed as a little lunchtime tweak or it's not a big deal because you're getting injectables. I mean, injectables can blind you if done incorrectly or if your injector is unlucky. You can have horrible complications. A piece of your skin can necrose off if, you know, if your injector gets unlucky and goes to an artery. So I think one of the big things I would warn young women again in particular about is to not trivialize injectables and things would seem like they're just a little lunchtime treatment. And God forbid, don't do it yourself. Again, people are like, oh, you're a pleasant surgeon. You want to sell these things. You don't want us doing it to ourselves. But I'm seeing these Instagram and Facebook pages pop up where patients teaching other, you know, usually young women teaching other young women how to inject yourself. This stuff is still dangerous. It still has serious complications. So I think the bigger risk is perceiving that in particular, injectables and lasers and non-surgical things are somehow less dangerous. They're not there to be taken seriously. So you still have to do your homework and find a reputable injector or laser specialist. And how much of these treatments are irreversible? That's a good question. It really depends upon the treatment itself. So, hyaluronic acid fillers, they are reversible. My God, you know, they have an enzyme you can inject and dissolve the filler. That doesn't mean that there is no consequences, especially if you've been repeating it every nine to 12 months as many injectors tell you to do. Or just come in for a top off 12 months later. We understand now that those fillers last much longer than the companies are telling us. In fact, they can last decade or more. So if you're constantly getting top off, it can stretch out your skin. It can cause lymphatic blockage. And it's not so easy as just reversing it like that. Other treatments like lasers, they can, they can score you. And that is irreversible. Things like Kybella, which is real, I forgot, Jesse, she's talking about, she's getting Kybella to dissolve the fat tree transfer. I don't think that's a good idea. Kybella is not very predictable. It's not as fine-tuned as other treatments. So, I mean, the one line is like, it depends on the treatment you're talking about. But I would consider everything. For safety sake, pretend everything is irreversible. And that'll make you start to take this more seriously. That's how I feel. That's why. That's how I feel. I love that advice. Pretend everything is permanent. Seriously, I'm curious. So we've talked a lot about, obviously, the negatives. If we have to play devil's advocate, we have to and shift to some of the positives. What do you think are some of the most like natural procedures that people are doing now that didn't exist 10 years ago that are making a huge difference? When you say natural procedures, these topics are argued within my field, but really depends upon this specific treatment. Like people are like pinching their skin up by their eye to give like more of a snatched eyebrow eye. Look, what are they calling that? Well, there's different Fox eye to that. Oh, yeah, the Fox eye. Like, what takes place to do that? Because it seems people just go like this and they're like, look, that's all I want. But to have that requires a lot of movement. Oh, yeah. I mean, look, this is where I appreciate having done these surgeries in the past and study the anatomy and actually perform these surgeries. I no longer do brow lips or where that kind of work, but I have. So I understand how hard it is to achieve lifting of the tissues, because sometimes you lift it and six months later, it's back in the same place. I think the most common way that I see on social media that people are trying to achieve a Fox eye look is with threads, which are controversial in themselves. Like, I don't think threads work. A lot of my colleagues agree. My best advice is to embrace more natural trends. I don't like to chase trends at all, but I like the trend now that we're saying of doing things more naturally. Two questions on that. The first being, do you think Bella Hadid had that surgery? The second being, when someone asks you if a celebrity had a surgery, I'm curious how much you would place on your own bets of looking at people whose work you didn't do. Yeah, I mean, those two questions overlap and can be answered with like one long answers. Do you never know even the facial experts? Have you ever seen any kind of plastic surgeon or cosmetic physician or injector weighing in on which surgeries a celebrity has or has not had? The truth is they never truly know what exactly has been done. Sometimes you can bet pretty well that something has been done. If you see a celebrity on one year ago and his or her face, her brows are like this, and then the next year, it is way high up. There's a good chance. And I'll phrase it like that. There's a good chance that he or she had something done. You can never know for sure because again, there are plenty of ways to is it a filter? I mean, filters can raise your rise. You can't even trust what you see on Instagram. Is it a filter? Is it fillers? Do they have their hair in a ponytail? Are they taking that picture laying backwards? And now the gravity is pulling things back? You can never know for sure. Sometimes you have a better instinct that something has been done. But even then, you never quite know exactly for sure. Because I've seen celebrities, I know what they've had done. And the people I see other surgeons weighing in on what they have or had not done. And I know that they're incorrect. So even the experts get it wrong, I wouldn't bet on anything. I'm the consummate cynic. I don't trust anything. You really have to convince me of anything. Interesting. Okay. And then I'm curious, are there a certain level of celebrity? Like, I love Taylor Swift. I think it would be wild to think she's never got it injectable. But she's so famous in such a tight team. Are there certain celebrities who the person is endy-aid to the gods? And they're coming in the back door on like Christmas. So no one's there. You know, how does that work? Yeah. Now, this is one of the reasons I love practicing in the suburbs of Philadelphia here on the East Coast. But number one, like, you know, we don't get the celebrity crowd by and large. They stay in LA and in New York. And that's fine by me because I would not want the pressure or anxiety of having to work on someone's face for these very reasons that we talked about. The slightest little difference people are going to tear apart in the press. I've never operated myself on some mega celebrity. And again, that's fine by me. But to your point, you know, number one, they're endy-aid like to the gods to use their words. Like, there is no way that surgeon is ever disclosing if he or she wants to keep their career and their black book of clientele. And then these super celebrities, it's not always interventions. They also have personal shifts. They have people giving them lymphatic massages every day. They have the best skin care. They're doing yoga. Some of them are living the Uber healthy lifestyle with they're not grinding at work eight to 12 hours a day. So they have everything teed up to age as best as possible to begin with. So it makes it even harder to know who has had work and who has not. Definitely. It's so true. And what are your thoughts on if celebrities have an obligation to be transparent about the work they've had done? Because I feel like it's so tough. Because on the one hand, I want to say, you know, no, the public is not obligated to know everything you do in your personal life. However, I think when you are known as being a trend setter, a makeup setter, a fashion setter, a beauty standard setter, it's just ignorant to not acknowledge that responsibility. I don't know. It's so nuanced. I echo you 100%. In the end, I'm very much a free will and you get one life. You can live it as you want. No one can tell you what you do or what what you have to say or disclose. So I understand both sides of this. If someone wants to be private, they have the right in this country to be private. However, like you said, I do believe if you're going to be ethical about it, especially if you are a young woman who is influencing, and I don't mean to harp on young women, but young women have it so hard. And they are the most, like they are picked apart by social media, the press, more than anyone else. So in particular, if you are setting trends, like you said, for young women, for teenagers who are learning whether or not to love or hate their bodies, and you are making millions and millions of dollars off of your not only airbrushed and perfectly lit pictures, but acting like you were born with it. If it were me, I'd like to think that if I were some mega gorgeous celebrity influencer, influencing tons of young wet men or women or whatever, I would like to think that I would have the ethical responsibility to, and the confidence. 'Cause in the end, these people are still going to make their hundreds of millions of dollars. Because they're not losing anything. If anything, people would appreciate their honesty. I would like to think that I would have the integrity and the honesty to help out those millions of young people that are looking up to me to set the standard. - I think that too. I'm like, when Kylie Jenner posted on TikTok, what exact breast augmentation she had done, the girlies loved it. We loved it. I don't know why that didn't encourage her to then say all these other things. I mean, I have to assume it's 'cause there's so many things that then it's like too vulnerable for the haters. 'Cause they'd be like, well, that's their whole face or that's their whole body. But I agree. I'm like, at some point, weren't they tired of keeping it up? And wouldn't you want to just like take a huge breath? - For sure. It must be exhausting. And I'm very much can understand both sides of this. I can understand maybe if they expose too much, then people would attack them for a while. People are unrelenting and unkind and cruel sometimes. These celebrities are people too. And I think that's why they don't, they're not more transparent. I think they're insecure. They can have the millions and millions, billions of dollars and cosmetic deals and all this stuff. But in the end, they're still people and I think they're insecure. And that's why they keep up these facades. - It's so true. There's so much pressure. There's so much for still constantly learning. So much that keeps changing in the industry. But I think, yeah, biggest takeaway is being, you have to recognize that there needs to be some big layer of self-acceptance for all of us. Because even the most beautiful people, I've seen it out here. The most beautiful people are unhappy with how they look. Go get a surgery and you're shocked. You're like, wait, what? They thought they even had to get something done. And then two being like, treat everything like it's permanent, because you don't want to, yeah, make a mistake or look back and have a regret. And so really just thinking through and then finding the surgeons that really have your back and have high morals and high values so that you know you're in good hands. - Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more. I see plenty of handsome men, gorgeous women, nobody is happy. So if that's what you're chasing, the idea that somehow, you're gonna get some procedure or treatment that's gonna make you look the way you want. That's something that I think is important to remind yourself, nobody's perfect, nobody, no matter what they're showcasing on Instagram has it all. - Yeah, 100%. Thank you, Dr. Subeo. It was so great to talk to you again. - It's such a pleasure to talk to you. I think what you're doing for, again, young women in particular is so important and it's too uncommon, but very appreciated. - Thank you, I appreciate that. And I hope you guys all go check out Dr. Subeo on Instagram. I love your account. It's so funny. I love when you clock that guy on Love Is Blind. I also stop watching the show. I'm so over it. None of the relationships are real and authentic, but I love your content. It's such a breath of fresh air. And if I ever did need surgery, maybe I'm flying to Philadelphia. - Well, you know it, but thank you for the photo confidence. It's a pleasure. - Thank you so much for listening to this episode of RealPod. If this hit home or helped you in some way, send it to a friend, a teammate, Rumi. Share the love, share the realness. New episodes of RealPod come out every single Wednesday. So make sure you are subscribed to this podcast so you never miss an episode. To leave a rating or a review of the show, head to iTunes and let me know what you think. I love hearing from you. Not to mention you can stay connected with RealPod throughout the week, seeing behind the scenes info and sneak previews of upcoming guests by following the @RealPod account on Instagram. All information about today's show and guests will be linked in the description of this episode. Thanks again for listening. I love you guys so so much. Let's go dominate the day and as always, keep it real. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.