134: Placebo Addict with Shane Mauss | Soder Podcast | EP 132

Hey everybody, thanks for watching this episode. I'm on the road a little bit. Listen, we got a bunch of clubs we're about to announce. Soon, we're getting a poster together with it, we're getting all the dates. I'm gonna be building a new hour in these clubs all summer, July, August, September, November. It's gonna be a hell of a time. But right now, if you wanna see this hour, before we fill it, for Netflix, June 1st and June 2nd, Comedy Key West. In Key West, Florida, one of the best venues to have fun in Key West at Comedy, it's a blast. I'm looking forward to it. It's a Monday, Tuesday. June 1st, June 2nd, Comedy Key West. Dan Soder.com for those tickets. And then June 5th, I'm gonna be at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. I'm bringing Sam Evans and Greg Stone. Gonna have a hell of a time. Dan Soder.com for those tickets as well. And then in Mill Valley, we'll see you at the Throckmorton, June 13th. We're looking at trying to open up some more tickets once we find out our camera setup. So stay tuned for that. But Dan Soder.com for all the dates. We got all the dates up there and we'll be announcing a ton of club dates soon all together. Also, if you're a Montreal, I'll see you July 25th for just for laughs. I'll be at Club Soda doing a headlining show. Dan Soder.com, thank you guys for watching the podcast. Hope you're having a decent week. The part about New York City apartments that people don't understand is, it's not like, if that would have happened in the suburbs, you would just go, "Is this your house?" And you'd go up and you'd go, "Oh, it was next door." But New York City, you're like, "Hey, I'm in the meat." "I'm in the meat refrigerator of a market." "Is this your apartment?" And you'd go, "No." And then you check, I gave you the completely wrong address. That's fucking it. It wasn't of the numbers to have wrong. It was the decent one. It was the ones one block away. Yeah. If it would have been the first number, it probably would have really fucked some shit up. But also, I feel like it's unfair for you as a person that enjoys drugs that, in that moment, I was like, "How many people in that moment go?" There's probably on drugs. Yeah, yeah. Not real drug use, yeah. My fault. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm on drug soup, but it's not even a drug. Oh, I get asked to do so many psychedelic events and I'm like, "Let me guess. Well-meaning, terribly organized, and this is gonna be a nightmare." For those of you that don't know Shane Moss, go watch Shane Moss. He is one of, he's just a fucking fantastic standup comedian. And the thing that I love about it is, I remember watching you when we were booze buddies, and we'd go do standup. The thing that's great is you had this whole evolution and did, you know, experiences with DMT and all these, he's got a special out right now called First Dose. Second Dose is coming out April 13th. I think this might come out after that. So go watch it. It's great. You watched half of the first one, and I love the entire idea of you explaining drug trips. But through jokes, a lot of times people do this shit and they just talk. Yeah, I have. You're still, that's what I said when I told Katie when I watched it, I go, "It's awesome to watch you do material about drugs, and you're still Shane Moss." Yeah. You're still like writing great bits. I actually, so it started. I transitioned from doing regular standup to doing science themed shows. Sure. I just, what made you want to do that? You just were bored of a standup? Honestly, I remember, I got my comedy central presence in like, oh, nine. Yeah. And that was like my dream at the time. I remember when I started comedy. I was like, if I just had a comedy central presence in like five years, boy, then I'd really be on something. And that was like an unrealistic expectation, but I did it, and I remembered I had this party in this bar of friends and family around and stuff. And I just remember going, and like, killed it, loved the taping. And then I was like, I'm not happy. Yeah. Really? And was it at the after party? It was after that. And then I wrote an hour to like, do an hour. And then I was like, boy, I just don't care about this. And what changed? Because I think like, well, think about joke writing, it's interesting, it's figuring out a puzzle a lot of the time. I have this idea, but how do I make this idea to do this thing of making people laugh? Yeah. And so I think a lot of the joy in joke writing is figuring it out. But when you did the new hour, where you just like, whatever-- It was like a lot of drinking and dick jokes and stuff. And I was like, ah, and then I was doing, you know, I was doing international shows where they were doing these themed shows. Which it was like a late night comic. And I was like, well, what would my theme be? And I was always just reading science books. And I never put the two together that I could put science in my act. And then anyone that ever tries to do science jokes is always like, late night, like, you read a headline and then have a snarky riddle say, yeah. What are you like? Mars might not be the last to go. Mars isn't as far as mine, but it's like a-- Oh, yeah. The lame. And I was like, I care about ideas. Like, I like to eat mushrooms and watch David Attenborough documentaries and stuff. Who does it? And that was literally what I was doing and I had all these questions. I was just like in a funk. And I just started writing scientists. And then they like wrote back. And I was like, that's so weird that they're writing me back. But I feel like out of celebrities, yeah, scientists are the most to write you back. Yeah. Oh, well, they're not celebrities. Well, that's what I mean. Even if they are, like world-renowned physicists. Yeah, yeah. They're not getting pussy thrown at them when they walk out of the lab. Oh, now. You were figuring out gravity on Saturn. Can I suck your dick in your jaguar? They're taking a Honda back to a very like-- No, there's not like-- --dreamy of heart lining up to blow the roady to get backstage in the lab. I would enjoy celebrity so much more if it was for intelligent people providing information. And that's my whole thing. And then I went to all these labs. I started this here. We are a podcast, or each week I was touring. I'd go to a different university and talk to them a lot about how the mind works and perception stuff. Sure. And I'd be talking with these people, and I'd be like, oh my god, like 200 people on Earth have like read this paper that you wrote. They're all in your field. Yeah. And no one in the public would be hearing this at all if it weren't for my like minuscule amount of listeners. Yeah, listening to this. Going and digging it up. And it blew my mind. And so I started putting together like I had a Netflix special called "Mating Season." That was like a bunch of animal mating behavior. And that relates to relationships. Then I put out a-- and it was fine. But then I put out an album. I'd broken my feet and put out an album. Remember that? You did the bonfire after you had had a bad DMT experience and broke both your feet. And then you were on the boat. You were healed by the time you came on the bonfire. But it was fun because that was the first eye saw of this version of you. Yeah. Because I knew Shane clean cut from Wisconsin by way of Boston. It was a Minnesota or you grew up Wisconsin. Wisconsin. Yeah, by way of Boston. And you were always like, I asked my buddy Shane, you're gonna come in and you look like a lacrosse player. And then you showed up to the bonfire and Big J was like, who's-- I was like, this is Shane. We're just gonna find out this is new Shane. And then you were, you were telling us about how you broke your feet. Both your feet at the same time. Jumping broke my feet. I broke my mind. My bank accounts. But can I tell you something that makes me feel really good of seeing you this time? The last time I saw you on the bonfire, you were coming out of breaking your mind. And you were kind of piecing it together. And watching your shit last night, I was like, oh, he's back. Your mind is back, especially with the-- Again, go watch-- 10 years ago. I like to take a while. Yeah, go watch first dose. Because what I do love about it is you had fucking jokes, dude. I was telling Katie, you were the first person I ever saw do Conan Live. Joe List got me a ticket. Joe, I was drunk in Central Park because my restaurant won our softball league. And Joe List was like, Shane Moss is taping his Conan. You want to go to it. And I had met you once or twice. And I was like, yes, what do I have to do? He's like, you have to get to 30 rock right now. And I was in my softball shirt, my fucking shorts, my basketball shoes, and a hat, and I was drunk. And I remember going to 30 rock and finding my way. And I sat behind the Max Kellerman at 7. Behind you, I watched you. And I had seen your stand up, but it was the first late night's hot. But you were so tight, you were so like, boom, boom, boom. And then to watch your special last night, I'm like, man, he's still. That motherfucker still writes a joke. And I love that. That's my favorite thing is to be like, you still got that snap on that fastball. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I do-- I go back and forth because some of my themed shows that I do are definitely heading in the direction of like a TED Talkie type thing, because it's bigger ideas. And I also realized with doing science jokes, like if it takes so long to do to set up a concept, then to have like one or two punch lines, like the laughs, for a minute, aren't there? So you really have to like make a theme so that it pays off, so you take kind of the hit in the beginning, and then it pays off. Like the people at it-- I mean, it is hard to do. I just watched Maria Bamford-- That means old baby. And I was like, I didn't realize the first time, because I think I was just enjoying it so much. But I was paying attention to the laughs per minute question. That she had. And like a meaning. full like themed thing and like I'm not there but that's something to aspire to for her when people go I don't like Maria Bamford it's like when someone doesn't like that $400 bottle of wine where you go I don't even think you know what you're into it I don't think you realize this is some of the best of the best yeah she is done done stuff that I've listened it I like listening to her albums while I drive because for some reason just listening to it helps me with my it's like almost like reading a book yeah picture it better yeah where when I listen to Maria Bamford I can like hear all the places she goes where I think when I watch I get distracted by lighting or the curtain or how she's standing so I love listening to her albums and one that I always listen to and I have for years is unwanted thoughts syndrome because you start seeing the like beginning of her going into the deeper stuff but she's like just puts her foot in it yeah what the laughter minute are still yeah yeah yeah I mean you can go to her site and find it these treasure troves of all these like weird like web series things and stuff that she's lady dynamite was like he was born out all of that yeah yeah like she was like yeah she's incredible I love people that do that you know I always really respected what Ari Shafir did with storytelling yeah because he would be like yeah you got a long story but you can punch it up and then when I did his this is not happening I worked on this story about getting robbed yeah when I lived with a drug dealer and I remember trying it and you have that feeling where you go I've really bummed out the room yeah yeah the room is like oh my god yeah like I don't want to laugh right now you have a gun on your head and you're like oh he's gonna be fun like to learn how to put that shit in the kind of like make it palpable for like or digestible is comedy well that was also like I was I was part of the reason why I was so like shot a tight and dry and everything was I was like a very shy introverted person sure when I was young and so it was like a way of having like very tight control over exactly every every it's it's funny when people are like it's weird an introvert would get into comedy it's like oh we like one-sided conversations yeah you've never know I always thought it was funny when people like you talk to yourself and I'm like how do you know how do you work out voices or don't talk to them it's crazy when people think I'm crazy for talking to myself it's like so when you drop something on the ground you just breathe through your nose you just go you don't go you idiot like even that like even that little bit I think people have I think there's a spectrum of how much inner monologue we have and some people have I've heard my so that's very interesting to me to just not have a voice going fuck is that so get this my my my my special we call them trips then it's like the first dose and the second dose I'm doing the third dose slot and now I'm stuck in this fucking but we were talking about the what first hit made the universe crumble on itself and the next one you're like my whole life went yeah I wouldn't be able to handle that yeah yeah but I a part of the reason because I did a psychedelic tour back that's what we talked about on the bonfire and then I set that aside and started doing other things but then this opportunity one of the first things that came up after COVID was this opportunity to do a Vegas residency with like visuals and everything yeah add all these artists and whatnot which is really fucking cool yeah and it was a fun thing to get to work on it took a really long time we kind of have it down now but but my VJ Michael Strauss who blends things and together in real time to so so I'm not locked into a script so I can go off and he can so basically almost like lighting cues but with visual art yeah yeah so you can go oh you're going over here let me instead of the turn the lighting over here I can like make it blend behind them in the same way a DJ can alter things based on the vibe he can throw in he has he has like 25 years worth of visuals so like say a say a service dog is in the show and starts barking he might start putting up dog visuals or something that would make my dog for it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I like dog like there's dogs are over here I have no fucking crazy I mean with the stuff like you know the reference to DMT where you're like you learn all the whole universe you say this in a trailer for second dose yeah and then it's like all the stuff behind you yeah yeah and then you're like and this is forgotten is that is that kind of visuals planned or is that a lot of it a lot of it is like yeah so a lot a lot of the bits we have like a set these are the visuals that that I'll put when he launches into this bit but I what order I do the bits and then if I improvise he'll improvise as well yeah you got to be he's got to be on it he's been doing it for 25 years he was one of the for he started doing his first VJ set was taking was was cutting a VHS tapes together and put it together with Scotch tape and having multiple players with multiple projectors so he got that stuff 25 years ago and and and so any of the we I saw him at a conference providing visuals for talks and I said this is the guy I know he can do this and we started working on it and then right before launching the Vegas residency we were in the backyard in in Vegas and he had this this projector setup and and he was playing visuals and stuff and we were on this research chemical 2cb and doing like a little nitrous and stuff and watching visual visuals that's how we put together so funny that's how you do your tasting do we have any do we have any experimental chemicals great now throughout those flares perfect and I was trying to describe I forget what it was but I was like you know that one part during this one aspect where it will look like this in like your mind's eye or whatever I thought was universal and he's like oh I don't I don't see anything I have a Fantasia and I'm like what do you know if you ever heard of a Fantasia so a Fantasia is and this is what brought it up it's when you don't see any visuals in your mind's eye at all so he only sees them when he's on psychedelics which is why he's so attracted to this and seeing these so normally he can't think of it yeah if he's on psychedelics it'll be in his face so like what we were saying about the inner monologue that people have that with their visual system where where it's on a spectrum so so if you say like picture and apple some people would see like a black and white apple some people two-dimensional apple a cartoon apple and then like a better cartoon apple than a vivid apple and I like I see like like an apple like almost takes over my vision yeah you know depending on my perspective when I when you say that to me I have a very clear picture of like a water-dusted apple you know like you see at the grocery store with a little flix of water on it like a round thing like that see you're on the higher end of it then so you're more like hyper-fantasia I think a lot of comments hyper-fantasia is absolutely gonna be my screen there hyper-fantasia is the 100% my screen yeah as you grow up you realize there's things you need in a house a family that stuff but if you have those things you're also gonna realize you need life insurance and if you need to find out how to get life insurance use ethos ethos will tell you what kind of policy you need what it can cover it makes getting the life insurance fast and easy it's a hundred percent online you get a quote in seconds apply in minutes and get same day coverage that's huge because then you have you're like oh I have health I have life insurance you can get up to three million dollars in coverage some policies are as low as thirty dollars a month so take ten minutes to get covered today with life insurance 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off those doctor's appointments and go to zock dock dot com slash soda to find an instantly book a doctor you love today that z o c d o c dot com slash soder zock dot com slash soder thanks zock dock for sponsor in this message so I filed this out I'm on drugs and I'm about to start the show and I'm like oh my god my visuals guy is blind in the head but he's almost like you know what's funny about that is he's like the blind guitar player from roadhouse where he just like fucking whales like he can whale on your visuals because he doesn't see it because he has this like other thing of it's almost like um you know when they like I can't smell uh I lost it during COVID just completely gone oh you haven't regained it no I haven't regained it I can so sorry it's all right doesn't affect your taste yeah it doles it like a lot of hot sauce a lot of rant I need stuff that actually like steps on my tongue for me to like really feel it, but I was telling Katie it's there's like moments where I'll get like now that the seasons are changing I don't know if it's like a memory Smell or whatever, but it's starting to be like I'll walk and I'll get like Kind of what you were talking about about how I have like on the higher and I can picture an apple to me It's like I do see the edges. It's it was similar to like when I've seen documentaries where people talk about their site Returning where it's all of a sudden. It's like it's so big. You can't see stuff But you can see the outlines of it. Yeah, that's been happening recently with my smell where I go I I can like Take in the overall, but I can't smell specific what it is, but I go like that's a season change That's like a spring. It was when it got really hot outside and I walked out I was like oh I almost I like wouldn't say I smelled but I would say that I took something in through my nose that made me Remember stuff, and that was always what smell was to me. There's an interesting thing I think it's called Charles but nay syndrome I'm probably off on that, but Oliver Sacks writes about it in his book Minds I I think great neuroscientist the the movie that Robin Williams about Parkinson's Awakening awakening. Yeah, yeah, he played Oliver Sacks in the movie. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and so he He had this thing about people that go blind in in life like they weren't born blind They'll they'll often have these Visual hallucinations because what happens is when a part of the brain kind of goes dormant It's not receiving stimulation in the way that you when you Park a car you don't you want to fire up the engine every few months to make sure stuff So the brain does a similar thing really and so maybe that was my brain going over the seasons Changing what did that used to smell like it might be some memory that I don't know But there are exercises and I just haven't sat down and done them where they really are like sit there with like I think it's something like a like a nail polish. It goes in order of like very very hard and potent to like very soft And then you're supposed to like do the smells and go down and then try to repeat up to teach your brain how to take it in It's like relearning how to smell interesting. Yeah, you I also heard if I take JLP ones those things that they've been restoring people's smells not and not to be a cliche, but have you had a psychedelic experience since this happen I have there there's like spec I mean, I'm I do for I'm actually a Bit of a skeptic for someone that does as many psychedelics as I do is the psychedelic community They're like everything psychedelics and you know, it's gonna heal everything, but there is it does certainly psychedelics Create a lot of new connections that at least temporarily and I always it because like my my bad foot that that That has some like nerve damage and from when you broke it from the surgery Sure, they just you know cut into so many tendons and everything that it's like half of the foot's like sorted out It's not a big deal like I'm going rock climbing later today and stuff and and so it's but I sometimes have a little Bit of a limp and everything and sometimes when it's When it's worse it can I've I've noticed when I've had an experience that there's like a little bit of a reset like it goes back to like feeling like a normal foot for a while sure Yeah, yeah, I haven't done mushrooms since 2019 so I'm due I'm due for a big one and I think I'm gonna I'm gonna probably wait till the tours over. Yeah, yeah, let's the hours taped Safely done. That's a good idea. I don't want to crack open and go. Well, I don't like that whole middle chunk. Oh my god I people always ask me if I trip on stage like during the show there was it was always when I started doing psychedelics shows 11 years ago I had to have like in in the I had to have a question a Q&A in the show description of common questions like should I come on drugs? I'm like that's really meant to simulate a trip more than like be on psychedelics and things like that But one of the common questions is are you going to be on drugs while performing and like I just don't know Why that would be entertaining for for people, but I mean, it's fun when you hear like well this band during woodstock was on 20 hits Acid or whatever, but I don't I wouldn't want to it wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to see a band more if they're like We're gonna dose tonight. I'd be like I don't know if the music's gonna be tight where there is the times I have I've done story telling show in Montreal on mushrooms and What was that like good until it wasn't yeah, yeah good until it wasn't he was like we're all gonna everyone on the lineup It was at Montreal. He's like everyone on the lineup is gonna do mushrooms and I was there first because I think it was like one of my first years Do a much or all so I ate two and a half grams and then I hung out. Okay. That's not crazy Not crazy, and I knew it wasn't gonna be crazy. I can handle under three Pretty well, but it will launch me for a little bit Yeah, I was like all right, and then I remember smoking a joint upstairs in that it was at Cleopatra's that like strip club Yeah, and then already comes into the room and he goes bad news You and I are the only two that did mushrooms no one else wants to do and I was like what and then he's like and the Show starting But you're on mushrooms. Do you want to go first and I went yes? I want this over with right now Which is the worst headspace to be in when you're about to have a fucking six or seven hour trip Yeah, and then I went on stage and it was going well because I was telling about the story about Doing mushrooms in high school and I took him before my friend and he had to drive my car So we're like talking about it's almost like can we get away from the cops and I'm like I'm Pretty I'm doing a good job laughs for a minute. Yeah, and then one of the lights on the stairs Went and then it went and then it went off and it went up And then my whole entire attention was like Was that real and people are like was what real because no one saw it It was one of the lights from under the stair so you don't trip and I went that light And then it was And by the end I went ah anyways the cops hold us over with me I didn't even have like a punchline for this and then I left and walked around Montreal by myself with I remember I had an iPod at the time before iPhones. Yeah, there's so no it must have been like I had an android so it must have been like 2012 2013 and I remember like putting My iPod on and being like I'm just gonna walk around Yeah, but you want to do it was it was beautiful. Yeah, of course I remember listening to Phil Collins outside of a like a French church in Montreal I'm being like one That's a great time but performing no thanks. That was my experience every time I performed I was like I want to be looking at trees Right now like this isn't it's not like it really hurt the performance too much But it's like I was just on autopilot and then I'm like zoomed out I'm having like an out-of-body experience watching the stupid thing that I do for my life Yeah, that's when you really realize you go we're all organisms and I'm a dumb one What am I doing? I'm just talking for a living. This is so stupid. There was do you go do you do who do you go to shows? Like music oh Yeah, I mean like like I'll go to like I went to this It's called pretty lights faster. It's like kind of like a EDM fish thing That makes sense. That seems like a place to trip. I saw I did truffles in Amsterdam And I went and saw a pearl jam and that was the last time I want to trip inside. Yeah, yeah, I felt Mushrooms are pretty intense too. I like to be kind of by myself Yeah, and be able to control the environment. I didn't try it. I had a text while I was on it. Yeah What an unpleasant experience. Yeah Looking at your phone and realizing what a phone is when you're on mushrooms. Oh the last time I was on LSD I was like trying to read and it looks like Sanskrit and That's how I was texting Lou from the bonfire. I was like in the back of arena tripping hard and then he came to the back and I was like He's like damn he really are going through the thing of truffles that I didn't understand the difference between them in American mushrooms Was that it hits a lot harder the visuals are a lot more and it burns cleaner You like go up, but you go down. It's like quick to rise quick to fall Yeah, yeah, because by the end of the pearl jam concert We stopped by a cafe to get a joint my like friends wanted a beer or whatever and I wanted like a spliff I wanted some tobacco mixed with some weed. Yeah, and I remember being like I'm pretty normal again. Yeah, like I went to bed that night in our hotel room not Yeah, I didn't feel like a lot of times when I do mushrooms I feel like at night in the next morning the shell is coming back together Like I'm shelling back up like getting a harder like letting all the thoughts out But this I was like immediately like oh I'm really good at bed. That's why on tour Like when I do these big psychic electors. It's the least amount of psychic elects that I do You know, but I'm not on tour I'll I'll trip and like try to write about it and articulate the experiences So I have something to talk about when I'm touring But when you're on tour, yeah, especially the older you get, the more you realize, like, no I'm not. I want a few days afterwards to think about some of what happened and yeah, I'm really interested to do a trip, you know, I think it might really just even if it's like less than three grams of mushrooms just to be back again and just get launched and go like, oh yeah, we're just, we're all just an organism on this rock. There's so many different, it's changing so much because the decriminalization of things that you can get kind of specifically what you want like, like two CB is this research chemical, that's especially good for something like a concert because it's just, it's mushroom visuals and MDMA like body and feel, but no head trip, like you're clear, you're clear at it. Well, that's crazy. That would be, both Pipp and I are looking at each other like that would be fucking fantastic. That does feel like, at least we're at that part of science where you go, we can make some fucking cool trips. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was this guy, Alexander Shulgen, Sasha Shulgen, he was a chemist in the 50s, one of the legends in the field, he made a fortune making some fertilizer for Dow Chemical and they're like, here's your own lab, just do whatever you want and he had had an influential mescaline experience and he started tweaking the mescaline molecule and he tried testing on animals and wasn't noticing anything and he's like, be while those raccoons are just fricking their dicks off, they're like, yeah, dude, I won't do it through any trash. Holy shit man, holy shit, my legs grew out and then my hands grew out and then I understood why I have fingers like a raccoon being tested on with its fingers, it's like what is fucking happening. Yeah, but you can't see from the outside and it's like, it'd be a lab wrap for that versus like, you know what I mean? Getting tumors put in, you know, we're gonna hit this one with radiation, you go, no, but this one, you're like, brother, can I get a cigarette? That was unbelievable. So he got this whole is like, lab do himself. And and he was like, we need to test it on humans, but it would be unethical because even, even with the best chemistry and neuroscience, you have no idea like what this new thing is going to do or what, what is the right dosage. And so he decided the only ethical thing to do was to test it on himself. You're out. Listen, this goes back to my thing that I'm preaching on several podcasts across the, anytime I can get on a mic, I'm going to preach it. I've been shorthand terming it calling it Dan's Law, but I think we should where I believe that if you works, if you own a company, you need to work there. So to me, this falls right in line with you, a scientist, better try it on yourself first. You know what I mean? Like I'm not going to, like you can't be a board member of Dow and go, I, I like this chemical. You go, no, I need the mother fucker in the lab. That's like, boop. All right. Here I go. That's what I want. Accountability, baby. And he took a lot for the team because he made over a thousand chemicals, a new new psychedelics and he tried, he liked one out of five. Four times he went, no, no, no, no, no, no. But that one time had to go. That's pretty crazy. Especially in the 50s, where like people were sleeping in suits, like you had to like wear a suit to go to bed. That's how dressed up they were and like, end up being like, brother, I launched myself. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is an Oakland. So people were like a little looser, shout out and when the soda family immigrated to shout out the East Bay. And he, if he liked it, he would give it to his wife Ann. Cool. And then if she liked it, then they would invite friends over for a weekend. That's the invite. They had these like good Friday experiments. And then, and then they would all do this brand new psychedelic that they had never, that that he had just concocted for the first time. And then they would write a paper about it and publish it. He did get let go from dial. You know, too fun. We're letting you go for being too fun. What is it? Specifically about the Bay area that there's so much psychedelic influence and because you had Kenkezy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then you got this scientist and you have the Mary pranksters, you have Hunter S. Thompson, given the angels LSD. I don't know. Mary, the grateful dead. I just wonder if it's like, what is it about the Bay area that just lends itself so much to psychedelics? Yeah. I mean, there's, there's good weather, first of all. Yeah. Well, it's great. It is. It's always a little foggy and then it gets a little warm and then it gets goes because it goes back to being cold. It's never oppressive in any way with whether it's colder with heat. Well, then there's like, there's a fair amount of intellectuals around, but it's always been like this alternative. There's also Bay collar people. San Francisco at its best is mixed. And it's worse. It's all tech people driving people out. But my aunt, my aunt grew up, you know, my dad's from Oakland and my aunt was born in Oakland and they all grew up in the East Bay. But my aunt became a drug addict later in life, but did a lot of psychedelics in the '60s because she was just a teenager and it was around. Now people use psychedelics to quit addiction. But she told me, she had a big fear of little people. She had like a very, very big fear of little people that I thought was so funny. I was close to her and I used to go stay with her. It was my dad's sister. It was after my dad's dead. So I had a really good relationship with her and she was very, very funny. She was a big lady, you know, former drug addicts. She'd tell it like it is. But oh man, I'll tell you right now, my biggest regret was in middle school signing up for French and not Spanish because boy, I don't use French and I could really use some Spanish right about now. But thank God for Babel. 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And then finally, when I was older, she told me the story of her and her friend took 20 hits of acid in downtown San Francisco. And we're walking around and they went and do a giant hotel. I think it was like a merry out downtown. And they went up to the banquet hall and it opened up. And it was a little person. And she was like 16 years old and like tripping. And they were all like talking to her and like grabbing her arms and she was like, no, no, no. And it just fucked her up. Fucked her up till the day she died. Like she would not fuck with little people in any way. And I was like, what are you talking about? She's like, she called me Danny. She got Danny. I don't fuck with that. I don't want to fuck with that. And I always remember that. And then when she told me that story, I was like, well, you tripping. Yeah. And then an elevator opened up and everyone was half the silence. You were a golver and golver's travels. And of course you were freaked out. And she was like, yeah, I don't know. But is that like, I don't know. I was, I think of her when I think of psychedelics in the Bay Area because she would be like, because my grandmother had her committed when she was a teenager for doing acid. She did acid. She got in trouble and she did acid alone in a room. And she came out and was like watching TV with my grandma and she was like, whoa, she has snakes in your hair. My grandma was like, what? And she was like laughing. She's like, you got snakes in your hair. It's wild. And my grandmother is from Oklahoma. It's like a button up conservative was like, oh, my daughter lost her mind. Yeah. And I think my, I think Anne Karen told me she did like 15 or 16 hits acid. So she was up there for a while. Yeah. If they drove her to the mental institution. And like a day later, she called and she was like, no, I was on drugs. Come, please come get me. It's just crazy. And I was like, damn, doing, that's what it was like in the 60s. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the regular community didn't understand what psychedelics were. Yeah. They're like, what do you mean you're taking acid? What is acid? Now it's like, I think it's like, yeah, She was born in 50, so it must have been like 68 to like 73. - Now there's like frat houses doing mushrooms like instead of having kegs and stuff. And there's like, there's like the, oh, you're like the mega mushroom. (laughs) - It doesn't feel like it connects on any level. How are you taking that and not looking at Trump with his bronzer on his face and not being like, yo, this is fucking me up. To think you take any sort of mushroom and you look at a politician, like any politician can go. - Yeah, there are the peak of phoniness. I couldn't imagine watching a campaign speech and take blue or red out of it, but watching someone being like, and I'm gonna do this, and being on mushrooms and being like, yeah, didn't really, that is crazy. Do you take any offense to the microdose culture? - I don't take offense. I think it's like oversold, I get the, it's funny, the word psychedelic, it's like Latin for mind manifesting. These are considered the most mind altering substances on Earth, and that's why people had historically done them. So, and people are like, oh yeah, I want to take the most mind altering substance on Earth, but just enough so it doesn't alter my mind in any way, whatsoever. - I don't want to do this thing, but I want to take this thing. - You know what's funny about that is we're both former drinkers, and these drinkers. And that is always kind of how I felt about people who drink NA beers that don't have problems. 'Cause you go, well, I need to crutch an urge. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I needed to overcome my disdain for the taste of beer. - To get the drunk out. - But for me now, it is like a crutch. Like if I'm out of baseball game, I have the urge to want to drink 20 beers. But if I find a Heineken Zero, I go, oh, and I take a couple of sips, I go, that's fine, but I couldn't understand if I didn't have a drinking problem being like, give me the beer with none of the good stuff. I'd be like, no, the why NA's work is because you have one or two when you go, no warmth. - Yeah, yeah. - There's no like, the feeling of when you drink and you have a couple and you're like, I'm starting to fucking feel it. NA's don't have that, so you have two and you go, I'm just drinking bubble water. - Yeah. - That's making my gut feel heavy. - Yeah, the whole cliche with the micro-dosing and the tech culture, I don't know, I was just, I was commissioned to, there's this show surviving AI. I sometimes the people ask me to put together some comedy on various science concepts and I don't know a thing about AI, but I was trying to put together some material. And this variety show, there's like a scientist, a tech person musician and it's at this frontier towers in San Francisco, it's like this futurist thing. Each level is like, I think Ethereum has a level and there's an AI level, there's like a longevity level that I've solved. - There's people in Johnson's post. - They're out of it, they're out of it. - They're out of it. - That's what skinned old dudes, they're like, I don't know, they're forever, they're like, oh, you creep me out bro, you look like you just got, do you know what forever is? - Yeah, you go, I don't think. - Also, I don't want you to live forever, you stink. Have someone cool, I'm gonna live for a million years. - Yeah, do you remember my old ridiculous? - My old Japanese neighbor Albert Tucson was cool. Why can't he live forever? She'd bring me tea when I was hung over. You're a dickhead, I don't want you to live in forever. - And I went and there was, I'm on to get a water and there was a vending machine and it was an AI vending machine. (laughing) - Which I would love because I used to love beating the shit out of vending machines when it took my money. So I'd say, I'm glad it's gonna be feeling something. - Yeah, yeah. It's like four times as wide as a regular vending machine. You know when airports try to be like, look at how fancy this vending machine is, like an adult claw machine or something. - I've never worked. - Never worked. - SFO, if you go to the Delta, I think it's terminal two, there is a vending machine with one of the claws that grab stuff and they have canned gatorade. I love canned gatorade. It reminds me of my childhood. I'm trying to, I always, when I'm at SFO, I'm like, maybe the machine will work this time. And I go, can go get a can of orange gatorade before I get them off. It never is working. You put money in it and it goes, (humming) and it does it and you go, I'd rather just have an old one that had the swirls that would just drop it. Vending machines are pretty solid. - We've got the heck. We don't need you to put AI into the vending machine. - And this had two screens on each side and then a glass window so you could see like a third of the stuff that was in there. And then it has like this AI lady on it. There's supposed to be able to talk to her whatever. It's new, she's not quite working yet. You can't quite talk to her yet, of course. And then, and so now I gotta use the screen to find a drop down menu. And there's no just like A8 or something like that. - Just give me a fucking number, a letter in number. So I need to go like drink, soda water. And then I look and there's things in there that I can't find on the menu 'cause the menu is not all together yet. And then I'm like, all right, here's snacks, find bag of chips and then I order another thing. And it goes and to get this soda water. (humming) - It turns into a person who walks down the hallway and pours you a soda water. You're like, just drop it out your asshole. You're a vending machine. Just go, blah, here's a soda, blah. - It opens up like the Star Trek. Like, ooh, without they got food out of her or whatever. And then I grab the drink out and it knows my hand was in there and the things. But then it closes and goes into trees. And then it does the classic thing where the bag of chips comes halfway. - No way. - That's about it. - One thing to fix on vending machines. The only thing to fix, stop letting it get stuck against the window where it's like, - That's so funny. - And theoretically, like wouldn't you think an AI vending machine has all these sensors it's doing its own inventory and ordering and restocking itself and stuff. And it doesn't even know that it has, and I'm trying to go on the screen to like ask for help. That's not an option. The AI lady has an Instagram. - No, she doesn't. - She does, too, that I can go on and message this fuck. - But you can't just, and then if you hit it, it would be a hate crime. If you like shook it, like you're holding it, go, please don't do that. I've asked you not to put your hands on me. - Yeah, well, instead of like, oh, she's doing the best she can. - Oh my God, I should follow her. Follow her on Instagram. Really see if she'll stay update the chip selection. - I'm really hoping for her. - She gets her stuff together. - You're the girl you're dating. He's like, who is that? You go, that's an AI vending machine. She's going through it right now. She's not only fans, I support her. She is, do you wanna watch me open a bag? You go, is that cost excellent? (laughing) - That's what it's going to be. They're going to, they're going to like, know what phone is nearby, know your preferences, and then put like the big titty lady or kid-a-walk bio be their favorite cartoon character or whatever selling you stuff. And then, and then I still had to stick my hand into nothing so that it would close to go out and retrieve my third item. And I'm like, making fun of this thing. And then there's a guy in this tech building that comes over and I'm like, oh is it his or something? - Sure. - Like, he's taking this personally that I'm like mocking this thing. - I love that. - He like opens up the, he opens the thing up and gets me the chips and selling it, works perfectly as long as there's a human there. - That's so, yeah. - It's like we're bringing back the like, bell hop and elevators or something. - I don't need that, you can save that. You can cut that out, but they are. They want it to like, it's almost like there's no practicality sometimes behind it. And that's what feels like you guys are spending your money. I remember my mom would, you remember book fairs in elementary school where they'd be like, hey, we're gonna have a book fair so you can go down and buy a couple books or when Christmas was coming. I'm talking about when you're really little and they'd go, there's a store. So you can buy your family some Christmas gifts and you would be like, second grade and you go down, you go, I get my mom this, I'm gonna get my step-dadded. But I remember the first time doing that of going in there and being like, well, I want that. I want that, I want that poster book. And you take that and you go, well, I want that too. And then you go back to class and you go, I just bought all this stuff for myself with my mom's money. I remember learning that lesson. And my mom was like, you're supposed to buy stuff for other people, that's what it feels like text doing right now. I'm just doing this all for all the shit I want. And you go, you're supposed to be doing this for the rest of us so that it's fucking, that it makes our lives. - It's like it's real neat that they have this AI vending machine. - No man AI vending machine. You go, that helps no one. - And it was, and then I do the show in there with like a bunch of people that were like in the tower and like co-work in it or whatever. And the tech guy like brings up the vending machine. I started making fun of it. And they all fucking tightened up. - These are the edge lords that think Elon Musk legalized comedy by the way. - Just you, Elon, you brought a sink into Twitter. You're like, oh, total, total. What a, you guys. - It's total, oh. - The worst, the worst telling of a joke I've ever seen in my life was Elon Musk on Joe Rogan's podcast, trying to tell a joke, and you're like, that's not a human meaning. Where he was like, there's two economists, okay? And they're, they're eating shit. And you're like, watch until it's joking, you go, "Do not pay, give them all the money in the world, to not tell a joke. - You could-- - This guy sucks. - You could have 10,000 comedians that you're paying like $200,000 a year to just to write material for you. - You have so much money, you don't have, but that's what it is. It's a lot of these guys. It's like, that's what's funny about the micro-dosing thing where you talk about bros, micro-dosing. - Oh yeah. - Well a lot of your shitty behaviors because you're insecure. A lot of your shitty behaviors 'cause you don't really know who you are and you have this idea of what masculinity is and what you're supposed to follow. And if you do these drugs, you're supposed to get scared. - Yeah. - 'Cause you're supposed to have a moment of, not repenting. - You're supposed to question the AI vending machine. - You're also supposed to go, "Why do I need this?" - Yeah. - Every successful mushroom trip I've ever had, there's been a moment where I've been like, "Yeah!" (laughing) And then on the way down, I always, and I've used this analogy a ton, but I liken it to the thing at the carnival, where you get in and they strap you in and there's two of you and they pull you down and then they shoot you up. - Yeah. - And that's what mushrooms is. - Yeah. - Where you go, "Holy shit, I'm so scared, I'm so scared." And then you take a view and you go, "Look at the view." And then you go, "Yeah, I'm scared a little bit." And then you go back up and every time you go back down and go back up, you go, "You enjoy it more." - Yeah. - 'Cause you go, "Oh shit, I remember doing it at Coney Island in Brooklyn." And they pull you down and I was going like, the first one I was like, "Bah!" And then the second one, you're like, "Oh shit, look, I think you can see Staten Island." And then you're like, "Oh fuck, and you're supposed to go back down to the ground and go. I learned something." - Yeah. - You're supposed to take a little bit of mushrooms to remain a antagonistic dickhead. - It's just a bunch of control freaks with like, you know, addicted to placevos. Like look at Brian Johnson, just sitting in the dark, like eating placevos all day. - I got better. I'm better. - I'm better. - Drain my blood, dude. I get it if you're Keith Richards and you're trying to come off heroin. And they go, "Don't be your blood for new blood." That way the hair. And you go, "Oh, maybe that makes sense." But like, just sitting there taking little pills and being like, "Am I younger?" (laughing) That just always, to me, screams mental instability or mental, like, something's wrong. - And it's not even scientific. This, so they're just finding whatever scientists will validate what they want to believe. - It's like, but you can cast a net wide and far in, you know, tobacco companies would do this to find like the scientist that would take enough money to be like, "Well, we don't fully know the thing." - That's basically what these guys are doing now to have like us scientists that will tell them that they're gonna live forever. - And a dumb person like me reads that a scientist is helping them when I go, "Oh, that doesn't work." It's helping them. But it was. It really was like the tobacco company's finding them being like, "It doesn't cause lung cancer or they find a scientist that signs off on anything." - Yeah, yeah. - And you're always gonna be able to find a disgruntled person or someone willing to take enough money for something. - But even the guy you were talking about that created in his own lab. - Alex Shogan, yeah. - Yeah, Alex Shogan, he had to work for Dow. He had to make something for Dow that Dow was like, "Yo, this is gonna be a forever chemical "that's in the water forever." And he was like, "Okay." And he like does it because can I have my own lab so me and my wife can have our experimental parties? - He controls it. - Yeah, but that really is the unfortunate part of it is a lot of times these people who aren't using drugs for good reasons, they're using it for nefarious reasons, have the money. So then they get these people who do know the chemicals to go and you go, "It's just, it's all fucked up, "but the thing that always upset me about microdosing was, "it never seemed to take a lasting effect "as a three gram dose would, "or a Terence McKenna dose of mushrooms." - Yeah, large doses is an experiential change that you're having. So the chemicals go away, but it was those insights that you had during the experience. Whereas microdosing, what's the difference between that and just taking an anti-depressant or something, if you're taking it every other day anyway, and now your brain's gonna acclimate anyhow. - It reminds, to me it's the difference of taking a cruise to visit places or just going and living in a place. Where you go, "Yeah, well, I lived in Barcelona." So now I call it Barcelona, 'cause I was there for too long. Versus like, you take a cruise and you stop and you go, "We were there for a day." - I won't even say it's cruise level. - I'd say it's looking at a couple pictures and thinking that you know Barcelona now. - It looks like fucking cool. 'Cause I really do think the thing about psychedelics that I've always enjoyed, even if I don't enjoy it in the time is it humbles you. - Yeah, yeah. - Where you go, "Whoa, there's so much bigger shit than what we are," and I think that is good for humanity to go like, "Holy shit, we're a tiny part "of a big thing because a lot of what marketing now "is you're the only thing that matters. "You're the only thing, you're living your experience "and you go, that's unfair to society." - Yeah, I'm pretty concerned about the human ego. So there's this study that's really stuck with me. I think it's called the social brain or something, but the idea is that the way our brains evolved, we were like never thinking alone. And so the brain was always like assessing what the brains in your tribe also knew. So you'd be like, you know, you might not know exactly how to build a shelter as well as this other person, but you have access to that information. And so then you're subconsciously if you're around someone that has the expertise in that thing, you overestimate how much you know because your brain conflates the ability to access information with already having it. - That's very interesting to think like, I've heard this guy talk about cars for six months in depth, I can fix cars. - And they test it so like one of my favorite studies, they go, they make up a thing and tell people they go, we have this, scientists discovered some mineral that glows, they've learned everything about it. - How much do you know about how this mineral glows, and people, I think I have a handle on it and move back. - I'll tell you how this motherfucker glows right now. - Which is related to this Dunning Cougar effect actually. And which is that we, basically when you know nothing about something is the most amount of confidence that you have because life's just too full of information. So our brains just assume we know enough about whatever to get by in life. And then once you start learning you go, oh shit, I don't know anything. - That's why your first open mic you can kill and then spend the next few years eating shit. It's exactly what happened. - And it takes 20 years before you have the same level of confidence as you had at that first open mic. - And that's exactly because you realize just how hard it actually is. - Truly, I remember doing a first open mic and being like, I got these three ideas and I'm gonna talk about them and make them funny and I did and then I was done and I was like three minutes and I went, damn, I think I know how to do stand up and then I spent just after that, just like bombing. I probably like legitimately bombing for like two years. Just being like, I don't know, I don't know. And then like learning like, oh you gotta learn how to write a joke and then you gotta write a joke that's true to you and then you gotta deliver it. Like you're not fucking saying something you wrote and it is and then 20 years later you go, I think I got an idea and then you go out there and it's funny and you go, fuck, it really is. It's like a long process. - Yeah, and everything's like that. So the experimental condition in this is that they said the exact same thing. They go, scientists have discovered this new mineral it glows, it's confidential. How much do you know about it? And people are like, what do you mean? I don't know anything about it. Is it all the same information? - Really? - But because they said it's confidential. They're like, I don't know, like I can't access that information. - Yeah. - And so the idea is is that our brains are conflating the ability to access knowledge with already having it. So what does that mean when we have the internet in our pockets all of the time, we're all just going to walk around thinking we fucking know everything already. Because you can look it up, you must take it for like having already looked it up and doing the research. - I'm wondering of what the imprint is of learning it and retaining it versus just the idea. Because I think just in what I've noticed since smartphones have came out is my ability to retain information is much lower than it was before when I had just had a flip phone and I'd read a book or I'd be on, read a magazine on the subway. And then I would like read an article and then I would just like know about this subject versus now I'm scrolling and I read four different things on Reddit in an hour and I got none of it. I got absolutely none of it. I got like little bits and pieces. - You can read like a mediocre book and be like, oh my God, I've just learned all of these things. And on like one subject that might take you a month to read or whatever. And meanwhile you can scroll through Instagram and I'll feel like, oh, I saw this thing on it. I saw it chart and I saw the I just learned so much and it's like, I didn't retain any of that at all. - It's like taking a cup to the ocean and you're just like trying to get a cup of water and it's just like splashing out to every time you pull your cup, you're like, there's nothing in there. - And of course it's like a sink where it's just dropping and you go and I waited and now I got a full cup. It just feels like the overload of information washes everything out and you go, I can't fucking hold on any of this shit. That's why it's interesting to watch your special, again, watch second dose on YouTube. We'll put the link right here. But it seems like from watching your first special you're back to finding the enjoyment of writing jokes about stuff. - Yeah, yeah. It doesn't feel like it. as empty as that comedy central present. - Oh, absolutely. I mean, part of it too is that I always wanted to get out of my comfort zone because I had such a narrow comfort zone when I started, when you speak about storytelling. I remember when I first, like I'm a storyteller now, when I first started telling stories, it was the scariest thing in the world. - Yeah. - The idea of like, well this is a really good story if people are into it. If they aren't, I'm bombing for 15 minutes. I was used to like, I can bomb on a joke. I have eight more than I just pull out my best joke after that. - Just reload and shoot, reload and shoot. In a story you're right. Also, a lot of times with stories, you might forget a integral part that you don't realize the audience needs. So you're just telling a story and then they're just lost. What's worse than bombing is having a crowd lost on a story where they're like, I don't even know where we're at. - Yeah, yeah. That's what I learned by doing that story about getting robbed 'cause I'm like, all of a sudden I'm like, no, it's funny. I have changed my pockets. I'm like, I didn't explain the whole bank part. And then you're like, ah, fuck, and then you're lost. So now a storytelling, you feel a lot more-- - Yeah, and then trying to take, you know, like these studies that I can't stop from like, I'll tell anyone that, well listen, they just really interest me. And it's what I find myself thinking about. Going like, now how do I make that funny though? It's really, really challenging. So I like putting together a new show, myth understandings that I'm putting together. That's all about kind of human storytelling and why we evolved to create myths and how they were useful through time and how now that we have like more access to reality and information, the myths didn't go away necessarily and how it just kind of transitioned into disinformation and things. And so he's just the things that I just genuinely love talking about and thinking about and want to, you know, anyone that will listen when I'm at a party or whatever and then just being like, can I make that funny? It's really challenging. - It's what I've always loved. It's very similar to Colin Quinn and what he does subject to. - That's probably the closest thing to what I'm trying to do right now. - He just goes, oh, the Constitution's interesting. Why don't I break it down with jokes for an hour? - Yeah, yeah, I love that. - That sort of thing. - And I think that's an evolution for a comedian to hit that. I think when you hit that as a comic, you've stepped up from beyond the like, you ever have a doorknob jam and you're decked out? - You know, like, I do love those. I love, I always gonna love jokes, but I do like watching comedians that I like especially have that evolutionary jump where they go. Well, now I have a whole subject and I break it down with like a ton of great jokes and you like, this fucking rules. - But now I'm like doing regular old, like if I had to do five minutes now, I'm like, oh my God, that's a little out of my comfort zone. Like I can get on stage for 90 minutes. - No problem, you're just a no problem. - You want to do a full 24 hours set? You've got no one wants that. You're all gonna do that and I go, hey, listen, I need you to do a six minute guest set and you go, I'm gonna bleed out of my ears. I'm fucking scared, I'm so scared. - It's literally like that now, yeah. - That's fun. So I think that I'll probably do. I did like one weekend of regular standup last year, but now that the specials are out, I might do a little more standup. - Do it. - I think you can just fuck around. Why not? See what it's like, come on back. - I still make some notes. - Fuck yeah. I got some jokes. - You're always hilarious in one of my favorites to watch Shane Moss's special second dose on YouTube. Out now, watch it, follow him. Go to his website, see where he's performing. If you enjoyed any of this conversation, he's so funny and intelligent and just great to reconnect with him. Shane Moss, right there. Thank you for watching. - Thanks buddy. - Yeah dude. (upbeat music)