Speaker 1Jonathan Pease, welcome back to The Mentor, mate.
Speaker 2Thank you. Good to be here.
Speaker 1I've been thinking a lot recently about, and I've been doing a lot of podcasts recently with AI experts. Where does AI fit into someone's skill base in terms of being able to pitch an idea, whether it's a sales pitch or whether it's trying to raise money or, I don't know, trying to get someone interested to join a charity? I mean, and we pitch all the time and everything, but where does AI fit into this stuff? Where does it not fit in?
Speaker 2I think it's good news and bad news. So good news is level playing field, right? Like AI can write the email, can write your presentation deck, potentially do the research, even come up with the ideas. That's good news, level playing field. Very, very dangerous if you're just going to present it like everybody else. Suddenly, you know, the execution is not the differentiator, but how you make people feel about what you can do, that's going to be the difference. So I would argue that's always been the case. AI is accelerating. It's going to need to present well.
Speaker 1Would you use AI to help you build your content?
Speaker 2Yeah, you can do a lot of the preparation with AI. You can build your case, build the content out. But, and it's a big but, if you just go in with that, that's not going to be enough because that's what everyone else is going for investment. They've all got that. So how do you present it in a way that cuts through? And the problem with experts, there's so much they could say, right? They've probably got 50 points. They could put into that presentation. How do you get it down to the five that matter? That really is the difference.
Speaker 1Is it fair to say too that more than likely AI is not as expert as they are and you run the risk with AI of having more of a generalist statement and whereas the reason you're people interested in you pitching to them is because you're not a generalist, you're an expert. Is there a risk in that in terms of building your content up?
Speaker 2If you're building the document. I think AI can probably do it nearly as well as an expert potentially, right? I mean, it's basically sourcing all of the expert information that's out there on the internet and beyond and bringing that into a document. It is excellent at doing that, like summarizing and getting all the details in there. It is 10 out of 10. What it can't do is make someone care about that, right? And to me, that's the difference.
Speaker 1What is it you say typically to someone who's say got a really good quality deck, but what is it they need to do? What is it they need to do?
Speaker 2Yeah, well, you've just nailed it right there. It's not just about you, the pitcher, or you, the presenter, right? It's about the audience as well. So how do you bring them in as early as possible to be part of the presentation?
Speaker 1Can I ask AI that? Can I say to AI, look, my audience is going to be a whole lot of investment bankers from Baron Joey to pick a place. And then I might even go on to say, and by the way, I know some of these investors and they're fairly straight laced. And, uh, you know, good at maths and, um, uh, very quantitative. Hopefully I'm not giving Baron Joey a bad reputation, but, um, would you ask, would you say that to AI? Would you actually ask AI, what do you think?
Speaker 2Yep. Absolutely. Characterize the audience, figure out how they, yeah, figure out how they may or may not respond. What types of questions am I likely to get from this type of audience member?
Speaker 1Absolutely. Well, maybe as a starting point, would you maybe ask AI, just say, look, these people I'm pitching to come from this particular investment bank. Um, can you tell me a little bit about them? Would you go to that level?
Speaker 2Sure. Why not? I mean, knowledge is power. The more you can know about your audience, the more bespoke you can make your presentation. So yeah. Why not? I think these are all great use cases for AI.
Speaker 1Definitely. And, uh, sort of my point, um, you know, anything you're pitching anywhere or, or you're presenting anywhere, you've got an audience, um, and so many don't though. Yeah. Well, that's so many
Speaker 2walking and just don't,
Speaker 1yeah, cause they haven't maybe had some experience with them. So is it, would you recommend to the people that you talk to, to perhaps even if, if they don't know where to start, maybe use AI to help them find out a little bit about their audience to, and it's a horrible word to use profiling, but you know, profiling is what you're doing. You're sort of basically saying, what are the characteristics of these people?
Speaker 2Yeah. And look, this has been true well before AI. Something I always used to tell people or even ask people before they were going into a presentation, this is like an executive. Have you checked the stock price of the company that you're pitching to? Usually the answer was no. Well, I mean, just that data point alone, right? Is the stock up or down? Well, you're going to know a lot about the audience's mood that may well change the tone that you start your presentation with, right? So just pre AI, you could have just Googled a whole bunch of stuff, go to LinkedIn, see what their last employment was. Look at their last three posts on social media. You start to get a lot of an understanding of the audience, right? And you'd be mad not to do that. AI has just accelerated that. Now you can really. You can really understand your audience.
Speaker 1Do you say to your people when you're training them, look, maybe use that tool, but then run the slide rule over it and give it a reasonless check and perhaps you need to add some stuff in there? Yeah.
Speaker 2Look, not to be too reductive, but I think we're heading to a world where it comes down to two things, taste and communication. That I think is going to be it.
Speaker 1What's that mean?
Speaker 2Taste as in what AI gives you. How do I know if that's good, bad or otherwise? How do I then ask the follow-up question? How do I? How do I refine? How do I disagree with what I'm getting from AI? That comes down to taste. And then, okay, I've got the body of content that I want to present. I'm going to have to assume everybody else has the same thing. So now it comes down to how can I communicate that in a way that's different? That's clear, memorable, right? Like these kind of, I think that's going to be the difference. That's going to be, do I have a role brackets job or do I not? I think it's going to come down to that taste and communication.
Speaker 1So effectively then, you know, it's only one year since we last spoke, but like there's been a major change on the landscape. AI therefore, probably already, but definitely in the future, has commoditized content. That commodity is available to everyone and for free. Yep. And then it becomes down to how you communicate it. So AI can't do it for you. Well, maybe in the future it might be able to do it for you, but you know, right now it doesn't do it for you. But for a while. I can imagine a situation. In the future where, you know, a clone of yourself is created and an image, like a video image, not on a screen, but sitting there in a room, you know, like, um, actually does the present presentation for you.
Speaker 2But how special will one-to-one real moments be when we're in that space? Like, look at the entertainment industry, right? Live events. They've never been more expensive and they've never been more subscribed to, right? Like ticket sales for live events through the roof. Yeah. That's because everything else is slightly detached, right? I can see everything on social, but it's all once or twice removed. If I can get near the artist and see a live one-time only event, suddenly that's gone up as a premium. It's going to be the same in business.
Speaker 1What is it about human beings that they'd rather see a live event? They'd rather see me live performing on a stage than a digital version of me talking to them.
Speaker 2Yep. I think it comes down to vulnerability.
Speaker 1What's that mean?
Speaker 2Things can go wrong. That's exciting. Right? Like when it's live and it's the person, it's not going to be perfect, right? It's going to have quirks and things that may be slightly out of order. That's what makes it feel special and different, right? Like people will pay a premium to see that live experience because it's not produced, right? Like we're in a world where almost everything is now manufactured. Like, I mean, I don't know about you, but going on social media for me these days is just completely boring. Like it's, you see the same tropes in everybody's posts and everybody's posts and everybody's and it's all sort of, in averted commas, perfect. That's, that's not interesting. That's not engaging. So I think people are looking for live experiences that are imperfect, vulnerable, different. You know, that's, that's where I think people are headed.
Speaker 1How does someone make themselves vulnerable?
Speaker 2Yeah. Executives don't like to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1No, but how does someone do it?
Speaker 2But it's a superpower. It's an absolute superpower if you can attain it. How? So, yeah. So number one, you've got to tell stories. You've got to make. Basically piece out your information into stories that are true. So anecdotes, things that you've noticed.
Speaker 1Things that happened to you.
Speaker 2Yeah. So a really great small model, I call it MeWe. So you talk about a story and what it meant to you, to me, right? How it made me feel. And then you flip it into what it then means for us, the organization. I'll give you an example, right? As I was walking in today, chatting to your team, it was just, they were just so good at the details, right? They knew everything. I'd been pre-prepared for this moment. You know, it just made me feel valued and organized and actually allowed me to relax. That's how it made me feel. But for us as an organization, I realized it's actually about all of those details. That is our difference. That's our superpower. It's all the micro moments that add up to why this business is successful. So let's sweat the details. Let's use this system. Let's do these actions. Right? So I've taken a me personal experience, how it made me feel, probably smaller. And then I related it to a we story, which is what it means. Almost like the moral for the organization. And then some actions out the back of that. So again, it's super simple. Collect stories that mean something to you as recent as possible. I find that's a really nice hack. Basically, something that happened this morning, it just feels more relevant than just a story generally, right? On the way in this morning, I noticed X. And then it made me think why for this organization that's just a yeah a simple great way to tell stories
Speaker 1it's interesting you you sort of raise something i think is important at least and i like your opinion on it um one of the things that ai does lack for example is values um how important is it in your pitch in the way you deliver it is to sort of either indicate or expressly talk about things that are important to value values yeah so
Speaker 2to me there's a difference between a document and a presentation document has arguably minimal values it's sort of got the information when you're presenting that's the moment to bring out your own personality your own values so to me that's really the difference that's the point of presenting so as a leader of an organization you need to demonstrate what you believe in demonstrate your vision and then give people the opportunity to follow right like you've to make space for them to follow so yeah i mean i think it's super important when presenting to bring those values bring your personality to life and again that's what's going to be different right if again the information's commoditized what you believe your values what you expect from others that needs to be the bulk of the presentation how
Speaker 1do we work out what the relevant values
Speaker 2are yeah so understanding what your audience is into and then making sure your presentation is relevant to that is very important absolutely and you'd be mad not to learn about your audience and then position your message so it resonates but equally you certainly shouldn't try and pretend to be something you're not
Speaker 1and when you're doing the pitch jonathan or the presentation reading the room um let's say people are glazing over yeah how important is it to switch your pitch
Speaker 2yep vital vital you need to be reading the room but that's sort of step one as in are they engaged are they not does someone have a question how do i know that usually it's written all over their face right they're either looking down at a second screen or they're looking down at a second screen and they're looking down at a second screen or they've got a confused look or they've got a grumpy look right the tendency for people and executives is to sort of ignore those people and just try and get to the end of the presentation
Speaker 1with a with a powerpoint
Speaker 2yeah yeah so that's that's the wrong idea you need to hunt down those people and go to them and ask them and talk to them right i think one of the biggest misconceptions about presenting or pitching whatever you want to call it people think it's all about you the presenter and a one-way conversation i'm going to be the one-way going to present to you yeah and you're going to be my audience and you're going to listen yeah the truth is when done well it's a two-way conversation and you need to look to open up that two-way conversation as soon as
Speaker 1possible you mean literally yeah absolutely like ask for
Speaker 2interjection so yep yep so number one set the playing field where you say this is going to be a two-way conversation i'm going to be looking for feedback throughout that's how we get to a so you know these these three things are happening audience what do you think happened next right you'll get hands immediately also visuals that provoke response right instead of starting with words start with silence look around smile click a really arresting visual let it sit wait wait wait you'll get something from someone great we're now having a proper conversation right again if you think about it what are we doing here we're in the attention game you've got to grab attention then hold it and then you're going to get something from someone great we're now having a proper conversation right again hold it how do you know you got attention people are talking to you they're 100 present if they are talking if they're sitting back but they could be anywhere they could be at lunch they could be you know thinking about their bad relationship god no literally they could be anywhere if you get them talking you know we're now in it together and also if people are talking they're coming up with the ideas as well and it's very hard to say no to your
Speaker 1own ideas so you've the power of pause or pausing um maybe you can explain that in terms of what does that individual mean by that in terms of tone and um i don't know maybe not pitch but tone
Speaker 2and speed yeah yes i talk about pace a lot with executives that's a good one yeah i talk a lot about that and i think it's one of those things that very few people think about and i actually think it has the biggest impact out of everything how how you regulate pace and how you regulate your pace and how you regulate your and think about the best presenters in the world i often think about obama it's all pace like it's that stop start big pauses allowing you know pennies to drop for the audience so just thinking about pace and really controlling it is super important and
Speaker 1what do you mean by pace is speed
Speaker 2at which you speak well cadence really so you know for example you've got a 10 minute presentation where do we slow down and really slow down to dead stops where do we then accelerate through other parts of the presentation and what does that communicate right like there's been studies but what you actually say the content of your presentation it's actually a small percentage of what people receive what they're actually receiving is body language tone and you spoke about it you know smiling or not eye contact or not etc and also just pace right like if you can pause and take control of moments it immediately makes you look more confident more convincing it also gives the audience right-wing confidence and it also gives the audience room right like the amount of times i've seen executives pause and stop and wait and then the next thing the audience says a person in the audience becomes the key to the whole presentation if they didn't pause and leave space for that to happen that point never would have come up you maybe never would have got to your approval or to your engagement whatever you're looking for from that presentation so leaving room for the audience yeah it's really important and it can be worked on it can be learned it can be yeah
Speaker 1it's a skill yeah it's a
Speaker 2skill
Speaker 1it is and you mentioned obama like you're right he he was very good at um he was nearly like a poet yeah when he spoke um but let's just look at trump for a second um he's the opposite um but equally he there is a certain audience that he engages well and sometimes i think about the use of language that he uses it's very very simple and he repeats it a lot but he'll present it off over and over again so he uses it very very simply and he repeats it a lot but he'll present it off over and over again so he use the words great a lot. And he repeats never been done before a lot. He picks phrases that. He knows his audience. He knows his audience very well. It's nearly like his brand. I'm expecting him to say it and when you say it, when he says it, that just confirms in my neurological system that what I expected was correct and therefore it's correct. Yep. How important is that use of phraseology in a pitch? Do you get to pick your audience and sort of say, I'm going to keep it very simple or how does that work? Or do I keep it really technical?
Speaker 2Yeah, look, I think word selection is important obviously, but I would argue how you say it is more important. And to me, Trump, the difference is how he says it as opposed to specifically what he says. So he'll say a sentence and then he'll say the same thing again, but it'll kind of mix the words up. And it's just a very interesting way of presenting it. It cuts through. It's different. It's not what you hear from politicians. No. Nowhere in the world. So he has cut through with his own style, his own brand, and you're 100% right. Consistency, right? Repetition over and over and over. I have this very simple system which is called PERP. You make the point, you explain the point, and you repeat the point. I use that little circular model with executives. At any point, they really want to stick and land with their audience. And as you can hear from the system, it's all about repetition. Make the point, explain the point, details, evidence, whatever you want. You want stories, but then you come back and you repeat the point. What you often find is people look up when you make the point, they lean in when you explain the point, and they pull out a pen and they write it down when you repeat it. Very rarely do people write it down when you first make the point. So just purely on a comprehension and recall point of view, repetition makes a big difference. And simple language?
Speaker 1I mean, I know that's his style.
Speaker 2Depends. Depends. You know, I think, again, everything with intent. So if you're trying to make, well, if you're trying to allow the audience to think and do a little bit of the detective work themselves, maybe you want to use language which is more appropriate. You know, let's say you're talking about engineering. Well, if you really simplified that down and you're talking to a group of engineers, they're probably not going to receive that the way you want them to. So you probably need to amp up some of the wording and technical elements to make sure you're at their level. So again, it's about knowing your audience. It's not always about simplification of language.
Speaker 1Because you're right, Trump actually talks to his audience. He knows his audience and he knows the language they like to speak in. And he's made an art of his skill. It's become an art.
Speaker 2And I think he's unapologetically him. Back to that word, authenticity. He's living proof of that. Whether you like it or not, you understand who Trump is. He's unapologetic about it. And it's what you get every time. It's consistent. So even when he's in averted commas wrong or you disagree, he's consistent. And you understand it.
Speaker 1Across the board, do audiences generally evolve in terms of what they're looking for? Can you be too good a pace? Too many pauses?
Speaker 2Too
Speaker 1perfect? Yeah, I
Speaker 2think you definitely can. And often when you see people, I won't name the courses, but you see, well, executives sometimes turn up to me and they've done what one of these courses that I won't name and I can see it. I can see them like, like they are playing out that style. Right. And it doesn't, it doesn't work on any audience. So yes, I think you can be too rehearsed, too perfect. I kind of call it tight, tight. You need to be basically tight, loose, done your homework, but then presenting loose. Um, look, I think, I think Obama's style would still cut through today because what hasn't changed is people want to feel what the person's saying. They want to embody it themselves. And Obama was a genius at getting people to believe and follow what he was talking about. So I think the style is still very relevant. And in a way it's similar in the sense to Trump. He's doing the same thing just through a very different tone.
Speaker 1What are some top tips that you would give to people in terms of, um, in the current world we live in with data and AI and all the available stuff. And, you know, people, audiences changing and, you know, like access to lots of things. What are the, some of the top tips that you would just leave us with, um, you know, before we close off today?
Speaker 2Yeah. Number one, be different. Sounds obvious, but most people, well, most people don't like presenting, right? So they, they veer away from doing anything that would be felt as different or distinctive. With AI commoditizing almost all of the execution, the need to be different is paramount. What does that mean? Um. Use better visuals, right? Tell better stories, have, have things that you can bring in anecdotally that get people to feel what you feel, not just the content, right? So really trying to cut through and be different. That would be number one. That's always been the case, but now with AI, even more so. Number two, and we have covered it. It's not about you in fact, right? And this can really help with people that have nerves. They're always thinking, okay, I need to be the subject matter expert. You know, how am I going to perform? How am I going to be judged? In fact, the question you should be asking is how do I add value to the audience, right? To your point, it's all about the audience. In fact, maybe the spotlight is on the audience and I'm just the guide helping the audience get to value, right? That's a, it's a little reframe, but it's a lovely way to dissolve some of those nerves that some people have.
Speaker 1How should I work out how I dress for example? Like, yeah, like I'm going to talk. Does it mean that if all the executives in the room have got ties on and jackets, should I do the same? Or should I try to, or you never do or should I walk in and be different?
Speaker 2Yeah. So you need to be aware of what your audience is going to be wearing and realize that everything, everything communicates. And what I mean by that is wearing a t-shirt into a boardroom that speaks very loudly. Potentially the loudest thing you'll do in the room is how you wear a t-shirt into a boardroom full of suits. So be aware of that, realize that's going to precede you as you walk into the room. So think about it. With intent, but.
Speaker 1So in other words, don't walk in with a t-shirt. By accident. Correct.
Speaker 2Exactly. Realize you're doing it and make that part of what you're doing. Exactly. Don't be surprised by that. Yeah, exactly. So I never say match or, you know, assimilate your audience because it's not you. It's, it's, it's too much hard work. You won't feel like yourself. So go as you, but be aware of how the audience is going to be. And maybe that's part of your introduction, right? Like point it out. Yeah. If you're a little bit vulnerable, talk about what you're wearing relative to what they're wearing. And I don't know, two worlds colliding, for example, that could be part of your intro if you wanted to make it so.
Speaker 1Or you might say, cause I do this, um, you might say I'm a big per, a big believer in structure and, um, I wear t-shirts on purpose to engage my audience, to make them feel relaxed. Yep. Yep. Because I'm sitting there with a suit. Like, I mean, I just, it's just part of my. There you go. My game. Intentional. It's my game.
Speaker 2It's intentional. Yeah. Not just, oh, whoops, I grabbed this out of the wardrobe this morning. Yeah. Oh gosh, I feel like a fish out of water amongst all these suits. Exactly. Yeah. That's, that's very interesting.
Speaker 1Um, and, and we obviously do that stuff here in our shows cause men are ordinary and I would have a, you know, a white shirt on with a collar on. For example, I'm working in town. Yeah. I'm working here. I do this cause I want you and my next guest to feel relaxed. Yeah. I don't want them to think that I'm stitching them up. Yep. Cause you could do it. Cause that's, that's the apprentice look. Hmm. The apprentice look is to, is to stitch them up. Mm-hmm. The show I'm talking about. Yeah. But this is about, um, getting you to relax cause I, my audience wants to hear what Jonathan Pease has got to say. Yeah. Not really what I've got to say. They, they want me to be them. I'm going to ask you the questions that they want to know the answers to. And I want you to be, give me, feel relaxed and not, not to hold back. Yep. And to tell them what they think. Well, my good luck with the retreat coming up. Thank you. And, uh, what can we expect at the retreat?
Speaker 2Yeah. So two parts, slightly different from last time, we're going to talk about content. So what? You should say, get really organized with that, bring structure to that part of it. And then we're going to go to the other side of the coin, which is great. You've got your content. Now, how might you present that in the most engaging, clear way? So you get people to say yes, right? It's two hearts. And then everyone's also going to walk away with an AI tool that they can present and rehearse to, you know, forever.
Speaker 1Oh, wow. It's pretty cool. I remember the last one, it's funny. I was having a cup of coffee next door and one of the people who was there, I never, I met him before, but he'd come to this coffee shop maybe 50 times and I'd never seen him. And now I see him all the time. And, uh, and, and if it hadn't been for the treat, I would never meet him. And, um, and I didn't even know what he did. I remember his pitch. And, um, and I, as I understand a lot of your earlier guests from last year, um, they've, some of them are resigning.
Speaker 2Yep. Lots of alumni is coming back. Lots of new, interesting people as well. You know, look, the feedback from last time is what inspired me to say, let's go again. Right. Like, like I thought it was good, but seeing the feedback, I was like, wow, we've got to do this again. It's worth it. So. Have they stayed on in the community? Daily messages, everybody helping each other. Yeah. It's pretty special. Pretty special. Back since then.
Speaker 1Yeah. Still alive. Uh-huh. Well done. Well, good luck, mate. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2Mate, see you there. Bye, Jonathan.
PodcastTranscript AI