Pia Mance: Buying The Right Outfit Made Me a Millionaire Before 30 (The Blueprint For Building Your Dream Life)

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Visit northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash HSR free. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed Sponsored Jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. I'm not giving up my old life. The baby hopefully will just come into it. So you don't necessarily want to take a mat leave. I'll probably be offline for like 72 hours and then I'll be reachable via Slack. $10 million in revenue in your first three years. This was a fun hobby. When I did my first drop, my husband took me out like, congratulations, you sold 11 necklaces. And I had a lychee martini. My life totally leveled up when I started dressing better. It's an investment. It changed the brand. If you're sitting at home and you're in your tracksuits, then add an earring. Your personal perception is reality. Talk to me about manifesting this pregnancy. I said I need to be pregnant on my five-year wedding anniversary, but. Oh my God, I'm obsessed with you. Okay. Do you hate to say no? I love to say no. It's really hard to break up with being a people pleaser. I don't care if you think I'm a little bit selfish because I feel like the people pleaser is like, I wish I was more like that. What do you think you've had to sacrifice to get there? Well, so shocked by that. How did your relationship change once you started achieving real success? How do you think someone can win in a negotiation? Are you like Hailey Bieber in that you've manifested your life? In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Pia Mance, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich? I'm ready. I'm so happy you're here. This has been such a long time coming. For someone that's just clicked into this conversation, they might know you, they might not. What are they going to learn today? I think they're going to learn how I started my business on my bedroom floor and all the scrappy ways I've done things with no business plan and with no real plan at all. So I think that's what they're going to learn. I also feel like they're going to see two friends interact. We have been friends for almost three years. I actually looked at my DMs this morning for the first DM we exchanged. We became friends really quick. We met for a coffee. It was the first time we met. You were telling me stuff that you're like, by the way, I've never told anyone this. First time. I was like, okay, so I'll tell you this. We were besties day one. I'm so interested, obviously, as you've evolved. Now you are a CEO of a very large company and you're doing a lot in taste making and influencing and also thought leadership. How have your friendships evolved as you've gone from being with your husband and modeling and doing some content creation to now? Also having to think about running a business and people's livelihoods. I'm still friends with all my school friends. I still have them all. We just don't talk all the time because we're all so busy and I'm on a different time zone to everyone. But I left Australia when I was 20 years old. So I'm now just turned 30. So 10 years ago. So of course, I'm still in touch with them. And I really pride myself on that. Like I don't go through friends quickly, but now my friends are so different. Like I don't go to dinners. I don't do a ton of stuff. I say no to things because I don't want to sit with some people and it's so rude. But at the same time, I only want to hang out with people if I'm going to have a great conversation, whether that's about anything. It can be anything. And I want them to be passionate about it. So whether it's like they're so obsessed with makeup and they're going to teach me something and they're going to really love it or they're going to talk about business. Like we just have the best conversations, which always go like business, investing, makeup, boys, business. You know, it's like so very. Or I want to sit with someone and hang out with someone who's really fun that I can either like dance with or I'm like laughing with. But I don't want to sit with these people who love me. I don't want to sit with them. Leave me feeling energetically drained and kind of boring. And I've noticed about myself, I can be exhausted and then walk into a room and I'm like, there's nothing I want to do except go home. I go to an event or a dinner or whatever, and I sit next to the right person. And I'm like, literally, I'm high on life. And I could then go all night because I've had the best conversations and they've charged me. But if they're boring, can't do it. I'm so curious on your take, because I think you're more in like both the female founder space and the influencer space. You get invited to a lot of influencer events. You get invited to a lot of female founder events. I don't get invited to influencer events. I definitely get invited to founder events. How would you describe the difference between when you walk into an influencer event and when you walk into a female founder event? I am super intentional now. I barely go to an influencer event. I'll go if it's a brand founder that I'm friends with or as bad as this sounds, there's something in it for me. I want to meet the founder because I want Heaven Mayhem and them to do a collab or something. I'm not going to go to a big event with a ton of influencers because I don't want to be an influencer. A couple of years ago, I was at an event and a lady from their PR team was like, this is this person. She's a stylist. This is this person. She's in PR. And this is Pia. She's an influencer. And I was like, oh, like my jaw was dropped. I'm like, the fuck? Like, that's who you think I fucking am? That's it? Anyway, she emailed me the next day and she said, hey, I just wanted to say I'm so sorry that I misspoke last night and introduced you incorrectly. So I was like, it's not that deep, but nice step in the right direction. I'm really trying to curate the personal brand. Like I am a founder first before an influencer. So I'm really intentional of those rooms that I go in. That's so interesting. And I feel like a lot of influencers in the past have actually like hired PR and hired teams to help them like be positioned as founders. And they've done an amazing job at that. I had no idea that's how you think about things because it's so true. Like your personal perception is reality, but you said something where you're like, I don't care if this makes me sound bad. And I'm like, it's the truth though. Like that is genuinely how you have to think about decisions. What's the last really hard decision that you had to make that was like borderline, like maybe I'll do this and maybe I won't because it'll make me look a certain way. In New York Fashion Week, there's always so many dinners and so many of my friends host these dinners. And I'm always like, do I go? Like I don't want to be boxed into an influencer event. And also, especially during the last New York Fashion Week, I'm like four and a bit months pregnant. I'm so tired. I need to pick and choose. And I'm doing so much in the day. But I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I think those decisions are hard when you're like, I want to show up for my friend, but I just don't want to be boxed into this. Not that there's anything wrong with being an influencer, but I'm not making any money doing that. So an influencer needs to go to this event to then make money with the brand. And that's what's in it for them to meet the brand founder and like continue that relationship. For me, it's like, I'm literally just there to be there, support the brand out of the love of my heart because I'm not making any money. That's why I'm like, I need to get something out of it. Unless it's my friend, then I'll be there. When I host the first HSR event, you're going to be there. Of course. Of course. I feel like you are someone who's constantly talked about that's been able to put together like a personal aesthetic and a personal brand that's really strong and really consistent across anything that you do. How much thinking goes into that of like, I want to look a certain way or have a certain aesthetic because it's important in the female founder space or for your business? I mean, a lot of thought goes into it. But also none at all. Like this aesthetic, I guess, is so innately me that it's just so easy. So like, I don't know, even podcast interviews or anything, people like, do you want to prepare? No, I don't need to because I know my business back to front. Like it's me. Like if I ask you a question about you, you know, same as the aesthetic, it's just so innately me. But I am intentional of, I don't know, some specific things I post or for example, the team, if they're creating content, like it has to be at this specific caliber of content. And like when too many people copy what we're doing, or replicate our kind of post, then we have to change. So I obviously think about it a lot. But I'm not like trolling Pinterest trying to find the perfect reference. So I can replicate that because I already know who I am. Can we talk a little bit because people always ask me this question. And I feel like I've posted some breakdown videos about like how the styling industry works. And like, I feel like I first started seeing Georgina through you. Yeah. How did you meet your stylist? And how does the styling industry actually work? Okay, I met Georgina. We she's Australian. She lived in London, we're with the same agency. And I knew who she was. So I followed her and I like saved a lot of her content for outfit inspo. And then I was in London. And I was like, this is the way my life works. And I'm sure you're going to get to manifesting. But I'm like, I need a rebrand. I need a rebrand. So I was this blonde Pia. This wasn't blonde Pia, but it was like brunette with a bit of blonde in it. Okay. And I was like, you know what my re I need a rebrand. And I want to work with Georgina. So I reached out to her and I sent her a voice note on Instagram. And I was like, Hey, I'm in London. I want to do this like tiny little press shoot. I'm going to get my makeup done. My friend's going to shoot it. Do you want to style it for free? Just for the day? It's like two looks. Just pull from your clothes. closet because I knew she had great stuff. And I almost wanted to test her and we can get into it later, but that's what I do with all my employees as well. I wanted to test her to see if we liked working together. And she was great. She came with everything organized. Everything was amazing. I loved what she put me in. She test my boundaries. It was great working with her. She pinned everything. She was amazing. By the end of the shoot, I'd booked her for a Heaven Mayhem shoot one week later. And halfway through that shoot, I said, are you free in November? Can I fly you to LA and we're going to redo my whole life? We're doing my rebrand. You're doing my rebrand. And so that's how I met her. And that's what we did. It worked perfectly because she is so talented, but I feel like we just met at the right time. Like she, I needed her just as much as almost she needed me. Like we perfectly matched and it was like, bang, we can just go crazy now. And I think she really pushes me out of my comfort zone, but equally I allow her to. I'm not pushing back. I'm like, oh, you can have fun with this, you know, do what you want to do. So we did a first fitting. She shopped for me. She brought it all over in racks. I tried it all on. We put together looks. I told her my budget. We ended up going three times over the budget. The outfits were so good. And then now we just work together on like a daily, weekly basis. She'll do a fitting for a trip and I'll get 20 looks or 10 looks or whatever. And then I'll mix and match in my wardrobe. And now since her styling me and we do the wardrobe, I just dress so much better. I have better pieces. So like I can get myself dressed to go do something because she's taught me how to dress, if that makes sense. Absolutely. So for someone that's just listening to this for the first time, like you basically pay a stylist to put looks together for you and then you get to keep those looks sometimes and sometimes you don't. So for the first ones, we've done wardrobe refreshes where I buy everything. So she will buy it all and then or even consign and she'll bring it all to my house and I'll choose all the stuff I want and maybe we'll return 10% of it just to like, you know, whatever revolve. It's the same as you buy three dresses and return two. And then I pay for it all and I keep it. And I think that is really important to me because I'm not a dresser. I'm not a dresser. I'm not a dresser. I'm not a dresser. I don't want to go to fashion week and wear all these amazing looks and then come home and be in trash. Like I love my clothes so much. Like I actually really love getting dressed. I love accessorizing. Obviously, it's what I do, what I do. But I keep these and then for some holidays or some important events, she gets loans and then I give them back, which works really well if I'm like, I don't need to invest in a huge budget for this event. But like if she can pull me a cool dress, then it's fine. Do you fundamentally believe that having great style and dressing well improves your chance of success? Oh, my God. Yes. My life totally leveled up when I started dressing better in a couple of different ways. One, I think people noticed and people came to me and were like, oh, more opportunities. Look at her, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also internally, I'm like, look at me, like literally look at me like I want to take a photo in my outfit. I want to shoot content. I want to be in TikTok. I feel so good. I get dressed every day. I don't know about you, but I go to the office every day. We work from home. Never in my life would I be in my pajamas ever. I don't even own a track suit like I own one. I own one pair of track suits, which is a recent pregnancy thing because I think it looks cool with a sports bra. That's it. I would never wear gym clothes all day. And I think that like sets me in this tone for the day. So I think it goes both ways. Yeah, people notice, but it's also internally like dressing better sets you up for success. Well, it's just interesting, even the timelines of stuff, right? Because like your business started taking off like as you're doing this rebrand. And I fundamentally think it's something that people don't want to talk about, but actually does make a huge difference. And it's funny because even in my business, like once I realized it could be a business and a media company in addition to the investing and doing the SPVs, which we've talked so much about, like I remember saying to my sister, like once a quarter, we can take a huge bet. And like it can be a large expense where maybe it's like $5,000, $10,000, $15,000. And maybe it's like, let's say an example would be hiring a publicist. And I remember saying to my sister, like it is hiring a and you and I have gone into your closet. You've like tried to help me like they get an outfit together. And I fundamentally believe that that was a bet that was so worth taking because it actually made me to your point, feel more confident. So for the turtle that are listening that are like, okay, I'm now sold. Like I want to feel better. I want to be able to start posting, create a personal brand. What do you think are the most important elements to putting a chic look together today? I feel guilty that I have to plug my brand, but I will say that adding any accessory instantly makes you ready for the day. So if you're sitting at home and you're in your tracksuits and then you get dressed, but you then add an earring, you're ready. Like, would you sit on the couch with these big earrings on? Probably not. But when you're leaving the house and you're ready for the day, you add an accessory. So I think I always start with an accessory. I think putting a look together just depends on your body type and like what you're going for, but stick to neutrals, stick to basics, good quality, invest in good quality, like a good pair of shoes, a good pair of jeans, a good blazer, add the accessories, and then like have some fun. Go on Pinterest, follow stylists like Georgina. I mean, when we do like our posts together, they get so many saves for inspo. And it's like, that's the best way to do it. Also troll people's shop minds. That's where I would start. With style, if someone's listening to this and they're like, I am actually now convinced I need to go and invest in my style. Can they use AI for that? I don't know. I love AI. And I want to implement it in every single way to my business. And I'm sure there's a million things we can talk about offline, but when it comes to content and creativity, I'm not a hundred percent sure. Like Pinterest has an AI algorithm. When you start saving things, it will populate more things that you like. So I'm sure you can use AI in a way, but I think there's something really unique about yourself and like choosing your own things. That's what I also think about content is I think in the next, maybe three to six to 12 months, we're going to see a ton of AI content and it's going to be really cool and look really realistic and be like super high production. And for example, I'm planning our holiday campaign and I want this house or snow globe to move on the website and I'll do it with AI. But I think people are going to revert back to loving a lo-fi iPhone moment because they know that that's not fake and they want to see like the real raw content. So I think some things I'm like, no AI, cause I think the trend's going to like quickly dip. So let's talk a little bit about Heaven Mayhem. Let's do it. So you started Heaven Mayhem with $900. Did you ever think that it would turn into what it did today? Never in my life. You know, I was sitting on my bedroom floor, like cutting the cords of my pendants and putting them together and packing every order. Like this was a fun hobby. I remember when I did my first drop, my husband took me out for dinner and was like, congratulations, you sold 11 necklaces. He's like, this is amazing. And I had a lychee martini and I was like, yeah, like I was so proud of this small, tiny thing. And now I'm like, whoa, that escalated quickly. Really quickly. Like you went from $50,000 to 2.5 million to 10 million in revenue in your first three years. If you had to distill down the growth and scale, what would come first, second and third in helping you achieve that fast growth? I think first is my work ethic and my execution. So I love to execute. I love to be efficient. I love to work and I don't need to work like so hard. And I say this all the time. It doesn't need to be frigging perfect. It will be one day, but like, let's just get it out. Let's just do it. So I think because I'm really quick and I like to do that, that's the number one. And then second, everyone asks me all the time, like, what was the one thing that changed the brand? There's not one thing, but second and third is tied between gifting influences, having it pick up at the right time, right before Coachella, having people who I had been going to their events because I just moved to LA, was trying to make friends and people like Mariana Hewitt, link and tag, or then Hayley Bieber Ward. Then we got on Revolve. Then I picked up a bunch of press. Then all these things, big and small, all accumulated into what it is today. Not one thing was like, damn, that's my silver bullet. But I think the number one thing is like the hard work and the execution. Who sells the most heaven mayhem other than you? There's this girl on ShopMy called Tibble. Her handle is things I bought and liked. She's never shown her face. She sells like crazy. I remember I was in Mexico and at the time I think we were like 4K a day-ish. And I was sitting on the beach with my friends and husband at Nobu and I'm like, we're on 28,000. It's 11 a.m. We got to like 38,000 for the day because she had posted a reel in our mini not mixed, the mixed color. She goes crazy. She's never posted her face. She's never said her real name. Maybe she said her name, but not her full name. That's it. She just posts like random clips. Very anesthetic. I don't know why. She goes crazy. And how does she even do a reel when her face isn't even in it? Of the earrings in her hand. That's it. Literally of the earrings in her hand from a box that I packed myself because it was the boxes that we were ordering to my house. She opens the box, then she puts them in her hand. And then I can't remember the caption, but it went crazy. And she's still our best converter on ShopMy. So have you reached out to her and been like, hey, I want to meet you? So here's the thing. Yes, I've reached out to her. Yes, we are like, here's more. Here's more. Can I pay you? Like, it's. I would pay her whatever because I can see the ROI. She doesn't accept paid deals. So that's the point and purpose of her account is that it's literally things I bought and liked. And so she doesn't do anything paid because she's like so genuine and she's built this cult following of people who believe her because she doesn't sell out and do any paid partnerships because she literally bought them and likes them and shed them. How crazy. But she does make money from obviously ShopMy. She makes a ton of money on affiliate, but she still has to buy the thing. Yeah. And even if I was like, hey, I'll give you 80% commission. I'll do whatever. Like, she's not a sellout. And that's kind of the point of like building a loyal audience is like you can't be a sellout because then the people aren't going to believe you or listen to anything you say. Well, I feel like you've done actually a really good job of doing both the high followed influencers and celebrities like who you just mentioned, and then also really bringing your community into everything that you're doing, which it's really hard to build a luxury community brand. How do you feel like you've been able to do that so successfully? I think we have been able to get the right connections with celebrity and stylists pulling. So it's been really nice to get those placements, which honestly sometimes never even convert, but it makes us look good and then gets us press, which puts us in this kind of higher caliber. And then with gifting, we think about like UGC and smaller creators and stuff. And then we also think about the community because at the end of the day, they're the ones buying the product. They're the ones buying the product and liking all the posts and knowing the product names and being so invested. So we do want to invest in them as well. And I think it's kind of a chic brand. So our community is naturally chic. It's kind of a high quality content and community. Well, I even remember coming to the influencer or sorry, it's a community event, but I literally thought it was an influencer event at the car. When I walked in, I thought, wow, all of these girls are so incredibly chic. I've never seen them before. What's their handle? And they all just said, we're part of the community. And I was so shocked by that. But half of them were influencers and half were community because that's the other thing. I'm not going to like segregate my two people. I'm like, oh, you guys ask community over here. You can't mix with my VIP. Of course not. We're all in it together. We're literally all girls. And you know what I think so cool is I go to these influencer events if I go and I'm like, oh, I've seen you before a hundred times. What should we talk about? You go into Coachella. Where are we talking about? The community is like, what do you do? Oh, you work in marketing? Oh, what brand? Oh, I have met the coolest girls and they have conversations with the influencers. And then they might look up to an influencer. The influencer might be like, oh, I'm looking for a videographer. I'm looking for someone here. So it's actually like beneficial on both sides. And that's why I like to do them. So there's obviously influencer marketing. Then you've done a really good job with brand collaboration. So brand to brand. How do you decide who's worthy of a brand collaboration with a brand like Heaven Mayhem? I feel like I'm so picky now and we get pitched a lot. I pitched you last week. I said yes to that. But I think for us, it has to, it has to like bring us something. Obviously, either it needs to bring us like insane sales and reach a new audience. So for example, maybe like Target wouldn't be so chic, but maybe that would open us up to like this insane audience that we have no, we can't tap into yet. So maybe I would do that. Or someone really cool, like, like an amazing niche celebrity. I would do because they're super cool and upcoming and like aligns us in the right way. Or the product needs to be like innovative and it needs to be like, holy shit, that's fucking amazing. Why didn't I think of that? Like, how cool is that? I don't want to do collabs that are just like meh. I want them to like make people feel something. What's your favorite collab you've done? We collabed with an LA brand called Real Fine Studio. And we did, they are known for their really high quality diamonds and their diamond pieces. And then we did a lab version with Heaven Mayhem. And that was really fun because we're both Australian founders. It was fun to bring the jewelry worlds together. It was fun because we could technically be competitors, but we're not competitors and we're so helpful to each other. So that was really fun. And then off the back of that and the success, now we have our own lab jewelry collection as well, but like no bad blood or anything, but that was a really fun collab. I'll tell you a collab that I thought was really fun was our Freya collab because we have such a similar audience. And so for us, we were like, this is great because we're bringing our communities together. They're so similar. We would walk around New York doing the content and we would literally see girls with a Freya bag and Heaven Mayhem earrings. And we were like, this couldn't be more perfect. Like people are going to die. And they did. But the problem with that collab was we did an existing product in different prints and colorways to make it more Heaven because we have our laptop cases, our belts, and everyone already had the product. So I think that was a really big learning from that collab is that the product needs to be like really innovative and really different and like make people from both sides excited to buy. I never even thought about it that way. What is the most viral product and or moment you've ever had at Heaven Mayhem? I think our book boxes. Obviously, when Hailey Bieber wore our earrings, they did really well. And even to this day, I'll see TikToks like, Miss Hailey influenced me. Our book boxes went so viral. I didn't have a campaign. My friend was checking out of Sunset Town. I was working out with you that day when you were like, Bryony, can I please come and use your hotel room? Yes. So she was checking out at like maybe 10 a.m. and then she has the room till 12. So she's like, I'll leave the key at the desk for you can just come in. And I took my three book boxes and I went with my tripod and I put it around the room and took my iPhone photos and took my film photos. And then I just did one reel on the bed and it was like opening the book boxes to jewelry. And it was messy, but it was very UGC. And that video got like a couple of million views sold out, sold out, sold out. And so that I think is our most viral product because it's kind of innovative and cool. That's what I'm trying to do with our products is like, oh, you didn't think of that, right? Like why would a jewelry brand known for earrings, we only really had earrings then, and now we have a book that looks like a book, but is a box to hold jewelry. Kind of crazy. So I like to do products like that. Is that what you would say is your road phone case moment? Yes. Someone said that to me when I launched, they said, oh my God, I said, this is just as good as the bird phone case. And I was like, wow, thank you. Can we take a moment to talk about the least glamorous, but most important part of building a business, your systems. I see so many founders and CEOs in my ecosystem who are building incredible businesses, but they're not just their backend is just chaotic to the point where deals will literally go cold because no one is keeping track of where things are at. So if that's your business, you really ought to think about switching to our sponsor, Pipedrive. A simple and smart CRM for small and medium-sized businesses that's easy to use because it's all centered around a visual pipeline. So you can see every deal, what stage it's in and what needs to happen next. Angels, if your ambition is big, like I know your systems need to match, head to pipedrive.com slash HSR to get started with a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. A hundred thousand companies are already using it. So why not join them? That's pipedrive.com slash HSR. It boosts your job post to help it talent fast. Hiring now? So now you've done all of these categories and you're right. Like I think at first you're known for earrings, you're known for jewelry, and then you start expanding into all these other categories. So book boxes, belts, sunglasses, like I'm obsessed with your card holder. Yeah. What's been the hardest category to crack and what's been the one that just like brings in the most amount of revenue? The earrings bring in the most amount of revenue still. The hardest one I guess to crack is that everyone who comes into Heaven Mayhem is coming in as like a Heaven Mayhem girl. So they're coming in for the earrings or the sunglasses and they're aware of everything else. Even the book boxes, they're aware. They open it and it's jewelry and they're aware that there's jewelry. Laptop cases for us are also a really viral product and have not brought in any customers from that. So like probably 2% of customers go on to buy something else ever. So I guess that's one's a quote unquote hard to crack because we're like, how the frigging frick do we get this cohort to come shop other things? And trust me, we've tried everything. Like we do whole shoots, styling your laptop case with earrings and everything else, like office essentials, this, this, this, and they just don't cross over to anything else. So that's a hard one to crack. Who's your thought partner with big decisions like that at the business now? Like when you're really trying to think through, because you've obviously expanded your team, who do you go to for decisions like that? It's either the brand manager or the VP of ops, but I usually just ask the whole team. We do an all hands every Monday. And I would usually be like, guys, what are we going to do about this? Like, what are we going to do? Come back with ideas next week. Like, think about it. I'll talk to the influencer girl, like everyone kind of, let's talk about how we can fix this together. I like to bring them all in on the decisions because it's definitely not just me there. How do you hire the best people to work at Heaven Mayhem? It's hard, but I think I've done a good job. It's a long process. Do you hire slow? Yeah. Hire so slow. It's a first round interview. It's a second round interview. It's a test project, test project. Sometimes we pay for, sometimes we don't kind of depends on the role, but it would be usually three questions. And then it would mention like, you will be judged or evaluated on the presentation of the deck as well. So someone might send me the most insane operations deck and it's like all these excels and like, they totally showed that they have the brain. But then like the other girl put it on a really nice deck with logos and images from social and TikTok and whatever. And I'm like, okay, they care. They like the brand. I don't want to hire any like full on so-so fans and like obsessed with everything we do, but I do want them to care about the brand and like want to work there. Then we do an in-person interview where they talk about their project. And I want to like make sure I actually encourage the use of AI. I love it, but I want to make sure that they can talk to it. I don't want to see like, loads of em dashes in them. Not really. No, I need to know exactly what they meant. And I'll be like, to use AI and I like to see people's responses. And then depending on the role for social roles, we do a trial day and then we have them in office. And then from there, it's like, let's make sure that they have a good vibe with the team. Let's make sure they take good content. Let's make sure they're not scared. Like if they have to come up to me 10 times a day to take little TikTok clips, I don't want someone who's too nervous. I need someone who's like, no, you said you had 10 minutes. I need 10 minutes. You want me to do this video or not? You know, I want someone confident. And then we usually throw like a tiny task like, oh, make sure that you clean up the content that you were working on or like, make sure you keep the products orderly. And just like tiny things that we're like, we mentioned it at the start of the day and they forgot. So like, do they not have attention to detail? Because it's hard when you're in a small office, an open plan office like ours, it's really noticeable who's not a team player. So we've got to get them from the beginning. How do you recommend someone listening to this stands out when they are interviewing or are doing a trial day at a role, at a company that they really want? They're nervous and they need to channel that to more excitement. I think knowing about the brand, bringing some ideas with you or some props, like if you're coming for content and they're like, oh, I brought some props, by the way, bring a bunch of magazines or this and their cameras, like they come prepared versus someone who forgets their laptop is like, it's night and day difference. I think they really need to try little moments like that to stand out and show how committed they are to the role, at least in our team. We had this girl gift us a couch. This is like kind of unrelated, but she wanted to gift us a couch for our office and we do some content and stuff. And she wanted to drop the swatches off to the office so we could choose. And she came in and she brought us all cookies from Levain. Is it Levain or Levion? Yeah, I know you're talking, but I couldn't pronounce it to save my life dyslexia. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they've got a gluten free one and it's really good. Do they? She didn't, she didn't know it was gluten free, but she brings this thing and these cookies aren't cheap. And I, I said to her, like, how old are you? And she was like, I'm 21. And I was like, you keep doing that because I was like, you don't have to pay for cookies every time, but I will never forget you. Like we will post the fuck out of your couch now. And that really made a difference. Not that we need these gifts, but I was like, you cared enough to stop by. You're already giving us this free couch, but you cared enough to stop by and pick up some cookies so that we have a great time in the office so that we remember you. So I feel like people that do things like that really stand out to me. No, it's what we call at Flight Story, the one percent. It's like the one percent of thing that you can do to make someone's experience better. Like people don't think about how important they actually are, but it's a make or break to get a thought of so differently, especially in the world of content and how much there is. There's so many options for people to choose from. So what can you do? That's like one percent going to make you stand out. Obviously, you've done an incredible job building a multimillion dollar brand in three years. Probably a few friends and relationships. Not my husband, though. I haven't sacrificed him. But I think nothing that I have sacrificed hasn't been worth it. Like, I love going to the office every day. It's fun. To me, it's fun. Sometimes I turn around to the girls. I'm like, see, imagine if we worked from home. We couldn't have this kind of fun. Like, I love it. And I like to me, I'm like, it's not really a sacrifice. It's like it's an honor. Did you always want to be a founder? Hard question, because I would look when I was modeling and when I was like growing up with my husband's family and listening to them, I would always listen and be like, I want to do it different or like I would do this. So maybe. Yeah. But I never actually put that into words. And figured out that was my path. But now that I'm in it, I'm like, God, I'm meant for this. I really am. You are really meant for it. What do you think was the turning point, though, that told you I'm going to do this? I just wanted to do something for myself. I have a really strong work ethic. I mentioned it before, but I didn't know how to apply it. So I was like, you know, getting stuff organized. When we moved to the U.S., a lot of admin, getting a house, a lot of admin, ordering a couch admin. I'm up till 10 p.m. OK, so this arrives this day. I'm going to mock it how it's going to look, all this irrelevant stuff that like the energy needed to go somewhere. So I think then I'm like, I need to do something. It's going to be this brand. And yeah, just took off. Do you think that's because you saw a white space or it's just because of who you are? I did not see a white space. And I think it's so interesting because there's a billion brands out there in every category. And like, I want to start 10 million more. And I don't think you need to see a white space or a gap in the market. But I think at the time, that one product that I did have was actually kind of a gap in the market because I wanted this one pendant necklace that I couldn't really find. But that's not part of my story. I think people who create amazing supplement brands or create a brand to solve a problem is a gap in the market. But for me, I'm like, no, it was just a small, quick thing. I think the problem we're solving is that we are providing chic accessories for the modern girl and we're bringing them along the ride. So I think it's not really a problem, but there was no gap in the market. We just decided to do it. Well, I decided to do it. I think that so many people will love to hear that because you often hear the complete opposite advice where it's like, find a white space. Find a purpose. Yeah. Find your why. Like my why is that I don't want to be staying up till 10 organizing the couch. I want to do something for me and like make these decisions and curate this thing. That was my why. How did your husband take that when you went from being at basically organizing your family life and channeling all of your creativity, all of your work ethic into obviously providing for you and him? How did he respond to you now wanting to go and do something outside of the house? I mean, my husband is like my biggest supporter. We've been together since we were so young. He's my biggest supporter, but like he keeps it real. He's obsessed with me and he tells me every day, I love you so much. I'm obsessed with you. But like he doesn't treat me like a princess. I'm not on a pedestal. Like he'll tell me to get the fuck over it. He'll tell me like he'll bring me down to earth. So I think it's the perfect balance of like I'll say to him, oh my gosh, look what I did. And he'll be like, you should have done that yesterday. Or like you should. Yeah. So now go, do it 10 more times or whatever. Like he is my biggest supporter, but he's not like you're amazing princess and you can do no wrong. Like he's always kind of pushing me subtly to do better all the time. And I think I do it to him too. And that's why we're like always continuing to level up. Are you guys competitive with each other as two entrepreneurs in the fashion space? He's not competitive with me, but I'm competitive with him. But I would never tell him, but he knows. He's going to watch the podcast. Yeah. And like, oh, he's kind of competitive. Like he'll be, he was on my Shopify for a bit, when I had five users and then I had to kick him off because I hired another employee. He's like every day, he's like, just add me back, just add me back. Or like sometimes he'll go up to the girls in the office. Like we had a sample sale and he's like, what do you want for the day? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like attending to the sample sale. And he went and asked one of the girls or I asked her, I said, can you check? And she said to me, as soon as I pulled up Shopify, he was like at my desk. So we're not competitive, but like he's keen to know. And then sometimes I'm competitive with him. How did your relationship dynamic change once you started achieving real success? It never really changed because it's almost so slowly and it's not like it happened one day and I'm like, I'm a billionaire and I'm famous. Like, and he's like, who are you? We're just so normal. And we're so the same people that like nothing's ever changed. Probably the only thing that's changed is like, I'll be like, I really want to go here. I'll pay for it. And I'm like, time for you to pay for a holiday. And he's like, I've been paying for your whole life. So you can pay for me for a while. I actually love that. How do you guys talk about money, deal with money? Do you have family meetings? Is it on the fly? Do you talk about money? Like, how do you guys deal with that as a couple? We do talk about money. We tell each other, let's do a meeting. Let's do a meeting. We hardly do it. We go on a lot of walks and that's when we aren't like distracted with work. So we'll talk about it or like in bed or over dinner or something. But we do talk about money. We like both invest and we, it's very shared and very open. And it's not like, like, for example, me saying, oh, I paid for that. I couldn't care less. Like my birthday trip, for example, I booked that and paid for it months ago. And some of my friends were like, wait, you paid for that? What do you mean? Like, what do you mean? We're married. He's my love of my life partner in life. We don't have my money versus his money. It's just like, whoever wants something whose credit card can get out first. It's the same thing. So I think we're very open. And yeah, I think that's such a good way to be. And I think it also shows it's like, you have a real foundation because I've had other people on where they were the stay at home mom, they went into the workforce and like their relationship either fell apart because of that, or it actually, there's actually Amy Liu from Tower 28, who her husband now works at the company. And it's like the company that she started. Right. And I think that's why I think it's so important to talk about stuff like that, because it's not the same era that we grew up with, with our parents. Like I never want to be in a dynamic where I don't have the option to buy myself something or leave a room if I'm not no longer married. And I think it's really interesting for you having not worked while you were married to Cody and then go and build this like incredible brand, how that relationship stays through all the seasons. Yeah. Because it's, it's very rare for that relationship to almost become closer than to drift apart. Yeah. What's like one secret rule of having a strong, healthy marriage with Cody now that you have so much going on? We, I feel like I've heard this on a podcast, but I think you said it, cuddle in bed like every morning. Is that what you said? We do it every day. Yes. I, let me go back to the money thing for one second. I will say that I can buy whatever I want. He would never be like, why'd you spend that? He doesn't even know. He wouldn't ask. Like, it's all good. We can both spend however much we want. Maybe if like he wanted to buy a crazy car, I'm like, do you really need that? But like, not my business. But let me tell you, when I first started Heaven Mayhem, the whole reason that I say I started it with $900 is because I set up a direct to mine because I didn't want, hey, can I have your credit card for this? But I didn't have any money I was doing some influencing but I wasn't getting paid very often we just bought this house I didn't have any cash coming in so I set direct debit his account to my account every two weeks I get $900 with my $900 I can do whatever the fuck I want get my nails buy the groceries see a friend whatever I saved one of my two weeks of $900 to start my brand and that is why I'm like it was $900 because that is like all I had at the time obviously not to my name we had all these nice things but like in cash that's how much I saved so I have come from a position of being like can I have this but also I'm transferring myself but at the time Maggie I'm like to him can I have your phone because I want to set this direct debit up because I'm not getting paid very often and I want to have this money and I don't want you to know what I spend and he's like there you go there's my face ID for my net banking or my you know he's not like but why like it's very open and trusting. Do you share with him? Anything about your finances now though like your credit card bills and stuff like that or no? I don't look we have very different spending habits I think if he saw how much I spent on clothes he'd be like was this necessary like he's probably bought two things in the past year but like then again he drives a way nicer car than me and that's what he values so no he doesn't he would never look at my credit card statement but like he knows how much money we spend in the business I tell him all the time hey I've spent this much he's like oh your expenses are way too high or like fuck you're doing amazing so it just depends. But I would definitely keep some things to myself I would never hide it from him if he asked like he'd be like oh so you have a new Kelly I say yes he knows but you know what I mean. I'm so impressed with how creative you are on a consistent basis how do you find creative inspiration so frequently? I sometimes people say like what's your superpower I think it's ideas I could think of a billion things and like of course some of them are terrible but I'm just inspired by so many different things. I'll see a like a tile and I'm like oh that's an earring I'll see an old grandma with a pair of sunglasses and I'm like oh we should do a shape like that we don't have that or she's got like blue nail polish and like maybe we could do a blue frame or something it just really depends on my mindset I think you can find inspiration anywhere you're looking for it but you need to like almost train your brain to see random things the other day I'm walking my dog around the block at the office and I came in with this gum leaf it's like a long stick with a little like drop I'm like girls earring I've got a new earring no one touch this it's not trashed staying on my desk this is a sample like you could just find inspiration anywhere. I need to be more aware in my life but I feel like sometimes when you're consuming so much content you get your own ideas kind of leave you because you're in that consumption mode I feel like you actually do consume content of other people like you watch my stories yes I look at my story sometimes you're commenting on my TikToks being supportive. And vice versa so how do you find that balance of how much you're consuming versus how much you're creating? I love consuming and I screenshot everything that I'm inspired by and then I go to my screenshots album as like my saved Pinterest because there's like maybe 6,000 photos in there but 20,000 elsewhere so if I like something I screenshot it put it in there and keep it but I love consuming and then it gets to a point where you're like where else can I look but that is like a really bad trap is at the beginning I was designing from like oh I love this Pinterest reference I love this I love this and then I'm like holy shit this other brand saw the same reference as me like this has happened so many times from even just like a quick graphic to a actual product where I'm like we have the same reference and like I didn't copy you you didn't copy me but we actually just saw the same thing so that's why I try and look at other things to keep it fresh because it's fun to have a new fresh perspective. How do you perfect a mood board? I love a mood board it's kind of like what started heaven that's another viral moment we had I was on a set in London and it just like wasn't vibing the way I thought so I kind of got bored of like tweaking the model's hair and telling them to do this shot I'm like yeah throw those earrings on and I was pinning the earrings in the mood board and taking photos of it I'm like this looks way better but the photos were just what we had for references for posing and that ended up being like a viral piece of content that now is on Pinterest every day but for other brands but it really I wish I trademarked that but it's impossible but I think I don't know it's just like my flavor of the month my mood of the month like I said I'm always trying to think of something new because as soon as I see it's being done a lot I want to change. So I watched a very viral clip of you on the Skinny Confidential being like this is how I use AI and it was to ask the AI for advice in someone's tone of voice or what they would do so I don't know if you watched the Cat GPT episode that I did we tested that really so I brought an AI expert on and I said this is my friend Pia's hack let's try it let's ask for business advice as Maggie Sellers so it was really interesting because I actually thought that it gave pretty good advice but it was very generic it was very high level so your new flavor of the month with AI what is the most unhinged but productive or best way that you use AI right now? I quit Chat GPT. You broke up with Chat? God yeah I barely even use Chat to be honest I use it for some stuff like that to help me with an email to say we have like a million taglines like heaven on holiday heaven bar whatever come up with three more like stuff like that I would use it for. It's really interesting because I think it's really honestly it's not good I don't like AI that talks to you like a friend I like AI that's efficient my hacks right now is we're using Claude and I'm having probably like two meetings a week with people that are building stuff for us with AI to make our business more efficient I'm like creating my own skills and agents within Claude to make my life more efficient I think my number one biggest hack is voice noting with AI so I will go on a morning walk for a while and I'm going to go to a and sometimes I'll be like oh my gosh I like to be in the office by 8 30 so it's like really not suiting me if I'm on my walk at 7 15 it's I'm not going to have enough time to do everything plus get ready which is also important part of my day so I walk around for an hour I talk to myself and I come up with so many ideas I'll pull up the canva I'll go through our launches I'll just say add this add this I think we should do this kind of concept for holiday I want to give this type of girl I want the content exactly like this slack Annika and tell her this slack that this slack my ops channel this ask when this PO is coming in I'll get a summary I'll then save it to like add to all my decks and then I'll get all the slacks like send send send send send and sometimes I come through kind of weird but at least it says sent from Claude so they know if it's not my tone of voice and in that hour I've literally like done so much and they're like how does your brain work you were thinking about this this and this at once but I'm like it's because I was on such a like inspirational moment on my walk that I can kind of go anywhere in the business and then I don't have to write it all down because that would that would be a lot of work but I would slow me down do you think that you've always had this beginner's mindset where you're just like okay being bad at something for a bit and that's what gets you on these things very quickly yeah and one time I don't know if I should tell this story because it's like so embarrassing but one time my friend told me she was like you know what I love about you you're just not embarrassed and I was like thanks I appreciate that and it's true I'm just like not embarrassed I'm I'm the first person to say in a meeting I don't know what that acronym means and they're like you're the you're the founder that's embarrassing I don't know what that means and I like it I would appreciate to people think I'm embarrassed but I'm not the story that she was like I love that you're not embarrassed is when I was literally like 17 and a half years old I stayed at Cody's house like I'm almost adult and I had a peppermint tea before bed and I wet the bed I literally wet the bed and I told everyone I still think it's funny his sister brought it up the other day and goes remember that and I'm like yeah that was like one of the funniest moments ever and you know what he did I woke him up and I go oh my god oh my god I've wet the bed and he goes don't worry just roll over on my side I was like you're my husband but you've known Cody since you were 12 met when we were 12 yeah and I was obsessed obsessed are you like Hayley Bieber in that you've manifested your life uh yeah I'd say so I manifest my husband but I like to plan my life it's like is it a plan or is it a manifestation do you know what I mean what's the difference I think people like to manifest like oh I'd love that don't do anything about it I'm like I'd love that so I'll put in my plan and do it in November 2025 like it's in the plan so it is going to happen and I think it's like I'll show someone my plan for the year like here's my vision board and they're like yeah but that's going to happen I'm like yeah of course it is because I'm going to make it happen but I think it's it's not so woo woo it's like yes I'll add it to the to-do list and it will get done so the thing that you've manifested the most recently is obviously you're pregnant yes talk to me a little bit about manifesting this pregnancy I'll talk to you I need to be pregnant on my five-year wedding anniversary which is Halloween and that's what's going to happen so that it's in my Canva doc I have a Canva doc every year of like my vision board for the year because it's too overwhelming to have it all on one page so obviously I have multiple pages per month so October November 2025 is pregnancy get pregnant then obviously you have to match it up with your ovulation so I was freaking out because my ovulation was two weeks after that day but that's fine and then yeah I got pregnant first try exactly to the exact time I wanted I will caveat all of this is like yes I put it in my vision board yes it was my plan but I also went to the doctor a year and a half before and was like I need to get pregnant this month this year how how am I doing took a load of supplements tracked my ovulation fixed my thyroid ate super healthy worked out made Cody stop going in the sauna like I did all the right things and then yes got lucky and tried but it wasn't like I'm like let's do it this month and it just randomly worked you know what I mean so I like to kind of that's what I'm saying it's like manifestation with the planet did you call this prep trimester zero no what's your thoughts on that i think it's cool i think it's really cool and i have seen a bit of content like that i totally scroll past and try and avoid it because i'm like if i didn't do that i don't want to watch it and be like shit did i fuck something up do you know what i mean well it kind of sounds like you did it and i've actually been thinking a lot about this for myself of like how do i trimester zero my business because that is a whole different beast that is going to happen at some point right i'm not sure when but it's like how do you prepare yourself as the founder to take off the time to actually enjoy that part of your life yeah what have you done to start setting up different things so that you can either take off some time or at least not feel like you're underwater when you're a new mom and running a business i have set up the team and i try and give them so much autonomy and control and i also think i apply a lot of pressure and i'm like almost a pusher like this isn't good enough do it again do it again do it again to the point where like everyone's so self-sufficient like i don't have to be there every day nothing breaks if i'm not there yes sure i'm the visionary but like other people have great visions and ideas too i think for me all i need to do is set up our plan for every launch and the design approve the designs like design them and then approve them but if that's done in advance like i could take two years off if i've done every launch i could literally step away like they're so good and i have so much trust and faith in my team that i'm like it's gonna be fine i did say the other day i was like i'll probably be offline for like 72 hours and then i'll be reachable by a slack and vivian my dp of ops was like babes that's crazy and i was like honestly slack's like my tiktok like i'm gonna want to be checking things i think but we'll see i'm just gonna keep it easy so you don't necessarily want to take a mat leave i want to have slow mornings with my baby and i imagine waking up and waking up my baby and then making a coffee for me and my husband and feeding the baby in bed and going for a walk and then i imagine getting on my laptop in the mid-morning and then i imagine going to the office a couple of days a week last thing i want to do is be chained to going into the office 8 30 to 5 30 and feel like i'm here to prove it to you all that i'm still working because that's just unproductive for everyone so i think i'm gonna take a balance but i definitely like i love working so i don't want to stop that and that's the same thing when i got pregnant i'm like well i'm not giving up my old life the baby hopefully will just come into it hopefully but i know it probably sounds so naive then people who have babies are like that's never gonna happen so we'll see one thing i will never do is let my team burn out which happens when someone is stretching themselves across a full-time job and trying to become an expert in something new but i also recognize that with hsr there are skills that could a hundred percent change our trajectory as a business that we just haven't mastered internally like generative engine optimization no code engineering ai native expertise fiber pro our sponsor has been the best solution for this because their talent is expert level and vetted so you're not just getting anyone you're getting someone who is really really really good at what they do they can come in work on a project and deliver to a very high standard and fiverr pros hiring experts will source and manage your freelancers for you all you have to do is pick from a pool of exceptional talent your team stays focused on what they do best and you don't lose momentum trying to figure out something new from scratch so if you're building or growing a company fiverr pro is worth looking into visit pro.fiverr.com to learn more for the first half of my career i wasn't allowed to take credit for my own work i couldn't talk about what i was doing i was just trying to figure out what i was doing i was just trying to figure out what i was building and i couldn't use my own voice i absolutely hated it one day i decided that things had to change so i became a creator myself i built hot smart rich as a platform where i could share my insights and own every single word but if there's one thing i've learned it's that growing a following requires consistency which is a lot easier said than done stanley the ai content machine developed by our sponsor stan would have been the biggest help to me when i was first starting our channel because stanley is specifically designed to make it easier for you to post content every single day you connect it to your instagram it learns your tone of voice and knows exactly what your audience is actually going to resonate and engage with and it helps you create content based off of that we just started using it on hsr and it is unbelievable give stanley a try for free at get stanley.ai slash maggie you've this episode is brought to you by indeed you're ready to level up your business but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load it boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast cut through the chaos with indeed sponsored jobs get a 75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now then this is a job for indeed sponsored jobs obviously dabbled in investing what is it about investing that's really intriguing to you i like building brands and i like being involved in that some of the things i've invested in are definitely not in the building stage they're like big companies for example shop i but i still um i get a front seat to like what they're doing like they want to test new features or they want to run something by a founder they they ask me i'm sure they ask a ton of other people but they'll try it on heaven mayhem or ask me or like part olive that i invested in i'm like let me help with this event on a nitty gritty like here's a guest list and i'll reach out to these girls but then like let's do this for a campaign or have you thought of this and i just like love having a seat to the show and being involved and i think to me i'm investing as like a hobby i'm investing like instead of sourcing some crazy bag and paying for that i'm investing in your company and the joy i get out of it is this value and being having a seat to the show and being along for the ride rather than financial gain you've had an interesting investor experience what do you think you've learned about what not to do when you want to invest in brands and what to do really well to support founders i think what to do really well is like ask them what they need but don't overstep like be there to help but it's also their company and i think if someone was coming to me to invest and then took over control i would not feel good about that because i and that's why i haven't taken any investment but i think i think i like love helping and i think the when you get the right it's like a marriage you're both in it for the same reason and especially angel investing is sort of if i'm writing these 10 million dollar checks that they're like i can't refuse like it's a really quite a small check so they're like they could say no to the money but it's more about having me there and the value i can bring so i think they're open to receiving it someone wants to pitch you their company what's going to make them stand out i do think relentless following up is good and you know staying front and center but like not in an annoying email way like i need to see like what you're actually doing or something different about it when you follow up i definitely think i definitely don't want someone to go cold because i'm also like do you not care but i think i think i just have to like them and the product like i i think a hundred follow-ups and a hundred deliveries of cookies are never going to do it if i just don't like the product and i just don't resonate with it do you hate to say no no i love to say no how is the best way that you can say no if you're a people pleaser i'm not a people pleaser so i say no all day every day and it's like my most favorite thing about myself and i tell everyone i know i'm like hey by the way i'm not a people pleaser and like you're not a people pleaser and i'm like you're not a people pleaser and i'm like you should be more like me because it's amazing and it's so freeing and i don't care if you think i'm a little bit selfish because i feel like the people pleaser is like i wish i was more like that so no one really thinks i'm selfish or maybe they do but if i don't want to do something i won't do it if we don't want to do it for the brand i won't do it and it's like i don't think anyone listening is like what a bitch what a selfish little bitch they're probably like damn i should do that too so yeah i'm not a people pleaser no i've had so many girls on the show and so many of them break up with being a people pleaser as they go yeah i'm currently doing that good and actually one of my least favorite parts about investing is having to say no to someone's business but i posted this on my threads last night which gets absolutely no views but plugging my threads i actually post a lot of vc information there yeah i need to follow it last night i posted a no to a brand and i said to the founder thank you so much for the opportunity never forget that like you are offering me an opportunity to make money yeah you're not a charity i'm not giving you money for you to go and do whatever with like i'm actually missing out on an opportunity and when you reframe your brain as to like i'm offering something to someone that could make them more money i fundamentally think that you are a better founder because you don't come from this place of like oh there's so much more above me and i think we've also glamorized investors so much of like knowing so much and being so much better than you someone that's listening that resonates more with myself of like maybe being a people pleaser or maybe coming at situations like this that are so much better than you and where you almost think well they're better than me yeah how have you been able to coach people in your office to think a little bit more like you to be less people pleasing not afraid of saying no and just like know your value and your worth i have trained everyone in the office to be a great negotiator that's one thing i'm like no go back and do it more like know the worth and know what we're willing to pay and we will negotiate so that's one thing i think with the people pleaser thing and feeling like people are better than you that's where i think it comes from you're little bit less than and something, but I don't know, I went and spoke at Harvard. Harvard Business School and people are like, are you nervous? I'm like, not really. Everyone's probably my age or younger and would love to have a cool brand like Heaven Mayhem and want to know how I did it. I'm just speaking to people just like me or like celebrities. They're literally just our age, our age people who have done way cooler things and have been papped more. But like we're literally all the same people. Exactly going back to the community event versus influencer, like everyone has so much to learn from each other. So I don't really think I'm better than anyone and I don't think they're better than me. So I feel like bring yourself down to earth. That's my advice. Like bring yourself down to earth for a little and realize like what is so different about me versus them. And like, why can't I say no or why can't I be on the same playing field? Like three simple things that people can dig away from that. I think with negotiating, you need to, you need to be respectful and you need to realize like what, what value are you getting here? Can you get it elsewhere? And then I think if you can get it elsewhere or like you can build it yourself, on AI, you have such a leg to stand on. So like go use that and go say to them, honestly, like, honestly, our brand is really popping and we have a lot of young founders following us. We can post you guys. Plus I could probably do this with another company half as much, or I could build it myself with AI. So can you give us this deal? Cause this is what we're willing to pay. And they're like, okay. Or like somewhere close to it. Your employees, they almost feel like family to you. Well, yeah. Not quite. They're like not family. I like to keep it like the most professional sorority sisterhood. We're all such good friends. We will reply to each other's stories. I mean, maybe they all text on the weekend. I don't, but like I'll reply to their story. Like you look so pretty. You're like, where's that outfit from? Or like that food looks so good, but I'm not coming into the office every day, hugging them. There is definitely a line like this is professional. We're working. And I think sometimes they're like, Oh, I wish it could be a bit more fun. And I'm like, this is fun. You are working on a fun brand. You have a fun job. You have so much autonomy in your career. You get fun gifts. We do fun work events, but like, it's a job we're in here because we need to make money. So like, I'm reminding them that it's a job. And I think sometimes I see other businesses where it's like, we're such a family. And like, it does seem really nice, but like at the end of the day, we're there to do a job. So I think that that's like a good balance we have. And I think everyone actually really appreciates it as well. I agree with you. And I actually used to do, I think a mistake. I would become really close with people at the beginning and almost not have the boundaries. And then it's really hard to add those in later. Whereas like when you set boundaries at the beginning, it's actually a lot easier when you get later on into the process to be like, well, tell me a little bit about your personal life or like, what, what are you doing on the weekend? I feel like you've learned that obviously from like having entrepreneurs around you. What are the other secret codes of success that you've learned when you're eavesdropping on your husband? He told me something the other day. I wasn't eavesdropping. He just told it to me, he was like, we were talking about performance reviews and giving raises. And I think that's kind of like the point. Everyone's like, Hey, I've been here for a year. Like, where's my raise? And he's like, you know what I was reading? I forgot what the book was, but he was like, it talks about motivation. And like some people they're not motivated by money. They're motivated by like coming along for the ride and like building something bigger and more impactful. And like, they're so motivated by being a part of this journey that where they're making a difference. And I'm like, yeah, that's so true. So that's like a little bit of secret sources. Like I, tell everyone this work better be so fucking stunning that you would post it on your own personal feed right this second or your own LinkedIn, but equally like, if it is that stunning, go post it. Like own that. You did that. So I think that's part of like the success or the question to answer is like, I want them to feel like this is equally theirs and they're excited about it and they can scream it from the rooftops and do what they want with it as well. And like, they're really part of it. There's a list of people that I desperately want to meet that I want to meet in the next phase of my growth and not even just in business. Also in like the way that I think my mindset, like my body, who are a few people that come to mind for you that you're like, I want to meet this person. And I know that I'm going to be either a better mom or a better founder or a better friend. If they're in my life, I met her a couple of weeks ago in passing, but I would love to sit down and interact with Morgan Stewart. I think she's hilarious. And I think she's unapologetically herself. And I would love to see how she operates. I would love to interact with Kim Kardashian because I've heard she's so professional. And like she goes into a million rooms every day and is so professional. So I'd really like to see how she operates. And I agree with you. I meet people sometimes and I'm like, goals, like I'm learning from you. And I kind of replicate some behaviors or like take things away from them as learnings. Who else? I feel like Lauren Ratner would have some really interesting things to say in terms of a marketing perspective. Who's a great mom? Well, I'm already friends with so many good, great moms. How would you describe yourself as a leader? I don't know Maggie we'll see like I I feel like I should ask them I know what I want and I'm like it should be like this this and this anyone have any thoughts and then someone will be like let's say I want everything green green green and someone's like I just thought pink was better I'm like you know what pink's really nice let's do pink like I'm I'm not one to change my mind all the time I'm not erratic I'm not frantic but I listen to everyone else like if they have another opinion I'm like okay if you guys agree if you guys think that let's do that I'm really open to their feedback I don't know how to describe myself as a leader I've never thought of like what three words I would use I think maybe I'm inspirational like I like to be like let's do this guys let's build this no I want to be the best I want this to be about us I want let's do this let's do that but and I like to bring them along for the ride but yeah I'm not sure what other characteristics I would use I think specific I'm very specific and creative or visionary yeah I think also like efficient I like things to be done efficiently I think that you are very similar in all aspects of your life in a really good way like I always know what to expect with you and you've actually trained me so well because when you get a text message you will open it and not necessarily respond yeah and I would spiral when we were first friends and I was like oh my gosh Pia literally hates me and it actually helped having a friend like you who I had to relearn a different language with where you have so much going on and you aren't a people pleaser and you're very specific you're very visionary you're very inspirational and so I developed a code of language of friendship with you that I haven't really had with other friends and it's been I was reflecting a lot on that before you were coming on the show of like we have a very different relationship than I have with most of my other good friends in a really good way well let me tell you that is part of my personal brand and that is like such an intentional choice if you text me on my social hey baby you in LA I've just been broken into I'd be at your house in five minutes because of course I've seen the message if you're like hey P I'm in it I need this of course I'm responding but if you're like hey what dates are you going to be in Europe I'm like that she doesn't need me not that it's so intentional and calculated but I don't like the feeling that people text me all the time my friends yeah but like people I work with or like I'm like you don't get to just like jump into my space right now like sometimes people like you're such a bad response to me I'm not like if I want to respond like my husband gets a response within one second my assistant like whatever they'll get a response within one millisecond but I think I'm just very intentional like I don't want to be too available and I kind of want to give that vibe that like oh she's not so reachable like I truly try that do that vibe oh my god I'm obsessed with you okay we're gonna do some rapid fire because we've been talking forever PM ants last thing you put on your credit card more clawed tokens do you know what that is oh yeah I just I just bought a hundred dollar a month plan oh yeah you gotta level it up yeah it's once you start running skills you go to add more tokens yeah it's crazy last most expensive thing I did a wardrobe refresh for my pregnancy style and I bought some new things because I need to feel good and feeling good and looking good is important to me what is your credit card I have platinum amex gold amex I just got the American one it's like Citibank but I'm planning to use that for points for travel and I just got the American one it's like Citibank but I'm planning to use that for points for travel got an atlas card and I have chase sapphire and why do you have five credit cards because I spend a lot of money and someone has to have the credit card under their name for the business I spend a lot of money for ads or for expenses so I want to put different things on different cards for different points and for example I'll get like business class flights on my points or I'll go home to Australia it's like literally twenty thousand dollars for flights and I'll do it on my points so that's why I kind of pick and choose my cards for different reasons what's the best card for travel I think it's the gold amex for points to rack up points but then I think if you're booking travel it's the platinum amex okay you can only wear one accessory for the rest of your life watch earrings sunglasses I think it's a sunglass I know it's crazy but I have them I guess you don't have them inside but I have them I would never leave the house without my sunglasses can we bring some sunglasses over Bob bags so not sure like pick a pair of sunglasses for you and for me right now but or these are glasses these are glasses and I like what matches the vibe these are our Sloans they're the best seller they're best seller for a reason because they suit every face shape see don't you think it glass just elevates it does so these I don't even need a prescription for no but your assistant has them and she put her prescription in them I know and then they also are the transcendence one wait what are they called um when you go outside she made them go darker yeah yeah yeah okay wow you would really pick a glass over an earring yeah I think so okay I just I'd love a pair of glasses okay you can live in new york or a latest starter brand in your 20s what would you recommend someone do oh you know what i might choose new york i might choose new york they look really good on you these glasses and you actually look like rachel bilson right now oh wow but these glasses on you have to see yourself but i think i would choose new york and you know what i have a tiny pang of regret that i never lived there but i think it's a fast-paced city everyone's working you get that like hustle mentality i think for some random reason in life i was born with it or bestowed on it because of my husband i don't think you get that hustle vibe in la even though it's done nothing but amazing things for me i think new york's where it's at i agree what is the first thing you do every single morning check my phone literally wake up turn my alarm off check my phone just like any quick urgent text message slack email like barely check it roll over give my husband a kiss he'll still be asleep and then i get up and i go to the gym or i go for a walk at what time get up at 5 30 every day oh you , okay you have to deliver hard news are you doing it in a text message email or phone call depends who it is but probably a phone call best hotel you've ever stayed at oh my gosh it's in italy it's called castello du rescue amazing so romantic and so amazing who is your favorite comfort creator i like watching you i love you i like watching you i like watching this is so random but i really like watching people who are watching me i like watching people who are watching people in their homes and doing things i also really like select mom content but i've liked it for years like i'll know all about like different things because i've like been obsessed with an influencer who had a baby when i was like 17 you need to look chic what is the first thing you're reaching for not glasses that's so unfair no it's the rules okay i'm not people pleasing right now okay love it she is learning what am i reaching for i think a big pair of earrings and a slick bun and a lip liner and what's your current lip liner wear of a walnut from makeup forever but i will say i have like 10 on rotation that all look kind of the same and yeah i'm obsessed with them all i mean you look good in everything okay birkin or kelly you can only kelly don't even worry it's kelly how do you know if you're a birkin or a kelly girl well i'm both but specific i'm a specific birkin i want the birkin to be like a beat up i want the kelly to be beat up too but i think anything beat up and vintage is cool not a mini kelly for me just a bigger like i love the one i have the box leather one i would also love a box leather massive birkin that i can like throw my baby's bottle in that's the vibe i want how do you okay this is not rapid fire but you're developing your personal brand and you decide mini kellys are not for me why how it's just like innately i just know that am i a mini kelly girl if you wanted to be and i think you do you do you do want to be but i just what does that say about me i don't know maggie she does that i say you know i say it well i just i think i don't want a mini kelly because of course everyone has every bag but to me i like mine because they're like beat up and vintage and they have some personality i just don't like the way that some people wear the mini kelly in the same way as almost like a status symbol do you know yeah and they're also freaking expensive so like i'd rather choose something else because by the time you get your hands on a mini kelly black paint with gold hardware like that's a big price tag do you want to hear something so funny i asked my audience because you know i get denied from every single hermes store like it is a hilarious thing i asked my community a few years ago when i was in paris i mean this is last summer the summer before i said hermes keeps denying me should i just buy the chanel bag and honestly half of my poll was like you're not an hermes girl you are a chanel yeah but i feel like i love the birkin for what it is like if you know how it was developed it was like for moms on an airplane with the ceo and jane birkin like when you actually understand the history of how functional this bag is it was so a bag i wanted yeah and i would be lying if i said like if there wasn't a mini kelly like available for me if i would not buy it i would buy it babe i would buy it too but like i don't know if that's my nighttime going out bag exactly yeah but i'm gonna message you and you can help me like do a brand refresh yes okay two more questions so you know i do those hsr love notes yes what do you think about those i love them i love them keep them up okay i love them sometimes i read them though and i'm like is she sad you're like honestly yeah you're like um i do love myself no matter what anyone thinks i'm like no one's thinking it babe we love you too but i love the hsr love notes i say it back to myself okay so if you could only say one hsr love note for the rest of your life what would it be something about like my intuition will get me wherever i want to go or like whatever you need is within you something like that to like that would be mine that would so be yours if you had to title the season of your life what would it be called efficiency i think it would be called efficiency okay pm ants i love you so much you're gonna have to come back on like honestly probably the most fun i've had in a really long time on the show yeah it's just different recording with people you have a real relationship with and that you know and also i've seen you come really far can i say one thing you sent me flowers for my birthday i don't know when it was two years ago maybe and the card said something like um happy birthday you're smarter than you think or you know more than you think or something like that i wish i knew the exact it was you know more than you think yeah you know more than you think you know more than you think love maggie and i'm like firstly so chic and straight to the point love it but that when people say what's the best advice you've ever been given i say that because i'm like i actually did know more than i think and i actually still do and that's what i'm saying like that's why i'm not a people pleaser because i'm like we're all one of the same but like you taught me that so that was incredible advice like i've you should google it i've said that in multiple articles best advice i ever got plugging clout hot smart ranch name dropping i love you where can people find you and how can ages are help you people can find me and heaven at pm ants or heaven mayhem hsr can help me with letting us know what you guys want to see like do we want more community design do we want more products do we want more this that i love developing stuff with the community and with other people and like being in my dms and having conversations so if there's something you guys want tell us and we're going to manifest an hsr h m collab yeah what are we going to do well that's what we should ask them yeah so we'll do something special for people at the end of the episode so they can tell us love it love you so much thanks for having me on love you more if you're starting a business there are certain things that are so fun to think about y'all know i love a mood board so everything that relates to the creative the name the brand the website the vision board but then there are the things that make you pause and ask am i even doing this correctly or do i even want to be a part of it and i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know what to be doing this like forming your business getting the right documents keeping your personal information private this is where our sponsor northwest registered agent is so helpful they're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral they help you form an llc or a corporation act as your registered agent and give you tools like a business address operating agreement website phone number professional email and free guides they also have real corporate guides who know your local laws visit northwest registered agent dot com slash hsr free and start using free resources to build something amazing get more with northwest registered agent at northwest registered agent dot com slash hsr free