Photo and Video Strategy Tips from the Pros

(upbeat music) - Hey everyone and welcome to the KBB from the TAP Podcast. I am your host, executive editor, Chelsea Butler. I have with me today, Lauren Anderson, founder and principal photographer of Oakland, California based SEN Creative and Sue Bay Kyle, her videographer. Bay are gonna talk about how design and construction professionals can create a successful photo and video strategy. So welcome Lauren and Sue Bay and thank you so much for joining me. - Thanks for having us. - Yeah, thank you, Chelsea. - Great, so let's jump right in and start out with the two of you telling our listeners how you came to collaborate and the importance behind your collaboration. - Around 2017, I was really hearing from my clients from designers primarily that they were starting to feel like video was becoming more and more important as part of our content strategy. So I really, I decided I didn't want to shoot the video. That's a whole 'nother beast. And so I went kind of looking for through referrals for really a collaborator that I could call on consistently and really build a relationship and a working, a great dynamic between the two of us for our clients. So that's when I found Sue Bay. That was about in 2018 and we've been collaborating ever since. - Yeah, and then just jumping in on my end, I had just left school. I was living in Los Angeles after I left college. And then I had just moved back to the Bay where I'm from. And that's when I had just started my freelance business in the Bay, I didn't have too many connections here and I met Lauren and we just started working together and it worked out really well. And I think with her support and the business that we've been able to work on together, I've been able to stay freelance and then obviously work with SEN full time. So it's been a lot of fun collaborating together. - All right, great. How did clients typically view the purpose of a photo or a video shoot when they first come to you? Like how much knowledge do they have? Did they know anything? - It can run the gamut for sure. Typically clients are asking for photography, primarily for their portfolio, and obviously social media content. But I try to help them expand how they can think about the investment in professional photography. And that can be maybe using Pinterest to help with SEO for your website. So potential clients can find you better. You can also entail reaching out to brands and distributors that maybe you work within your area. I work with the Sub-Zero Wolf distributor in the Bay Area and it's important to have those relationships with brands and people that are helping you complete your project. So I also encourage people to think about photography as a way to possibly work on brand partnerships and sponsorships with the people that they use. And then in video, if there's even more options, so I'll let Sue Bay answer that. - Yeah, and then jumping in, led Lauren was saying a lot of when clients come to us with video and photo expectations or questions. A lot of my video and is informing people of where and how video can help with their marketing. So obviously there's a lot of social media content that's out there, but then also like Lauren said, there's so many other places that different types of videos can live and help boost your marketing or help your brand partnerships. So a lot of the video aspect is taking the clients expectations and working within them and then also just helping them expand what could be possible with the content that we could give them. - So if you, you know, you're starting out talking to them about a video strategy, like I know some designers, I know are just sort of getting a handle on their photography needs and haven't even, you know, approached video strategy at this point. Are you able to sort of help them find a starting place for that? - Yeah, absolutely, that's a great question. I feel like a lot of the video is like you said, some people come and say, I know I need video, I know that it's really popular, but I don't know how to approach that with my brand. So a lot of what I do is I'll come and I'll discuss a few different options of what types of video they want. Like there's a lot of larger brand overviews that just explain their brand, explain their identity and can live on a website and just be an all-encompassing example of what someone does, for example designer and to designer what they do, how they do it, why they do it. And then I'll also just go more in depth and talk to people about who their core audiences are, like for video or who they're hoping to reach with their video content. And then from there I can work with them on a strategy of what is interesting or what is important for those audiences to know in order to make their decisions about design and hiring into your designers. So from there we can just really work on creating very niche video content that is informative and gives them content that they can send out to potential clients that want to hire them. So another-- Oh, sorry, go ahead. Sorry, I was going to say another really interesting video projects that we've done have been process videos, which has been definitely applicable to our construction clients where we'll kind of follow them through the whole project from breaking ground or starting the renovation all the way through to the finished product. And that can also be really useful in someone's sales process where potential clients could see really the mastery and amount of people and work it takes to accomplish a lot of these really beautiful projects. So we've also had clients use it as part of their sales process as well. Yeah, those process-oriented videos are always really fun because obviously we get to see things from the very, very beginning. And then we walk through the whole process with the designers or with the construction team and see every little decision that's being made and why they're being made. And it's just a really cool looking at the process for us as well. So yeah, I mean, if your clients-- some of them don't really know what they're getting into and what the benefits of all this are, I assume they probably don't know how to prepare for the photo shoot or video shoot before you arrive. So what are some things that they can do there? From the photography aspect, really making sure everything is super clean and decluttered. We're not focusing. A lot of times, these aren't real-life shots. We're taking out the Toaster Evans. We're taking out the coffee makers just so we can really see the construction and highlight, thinking about just photographing a kitchen. We can really see the design decisions and the craftsmanship that are in there. So if we can come in the day after the cleaning person comes, that's great. So it's really just decluttering and making sure that the design and craftsmanship is what's visible and not really everyday life. So that's super important. And then in video, there's a lot more pre-production parts in there as well. Yeah, just jumping in, piggybacking off of that. Like I mentioned earlier, there is a lot of pre-production that is involved. So there will be preparation beforehand, especially in the script and talking through specific talking points, specific education points, or specific interesting process oriented points that we want the designer to hit when they're on screen. So obviously those-- reviewing those, going over those, being as concise with your thoughts and words as possible and distilling that before we all get onto the shoot, because I personally am very bad in front of a camera. So the second a big lens is on me, I just completely start running with a topic, like maybe you like right now. But so just really being prepared and comfortable with what you're saying and just living it. But a lot of the times, obviously, the designers are the people that we work with do know their stuff, because they do talk about these things, and they do live these things every single day. So it's just a matter of making sure they're comfortable. Hitting things concisely. But yeah. And then can you just talk about some of the things they can do to prepare for the physical elements? I know one of your tips is to try to shoot for a day after a professional cleaning. I know that's something that we have a hard time with. When we have a photographer go to the kitchen and bath industry show, we shoot the editors, KBB editors' favorite products at the show live. So then when we go back to the booths, and there's like you're saying a reflection, a smudge, a streak, something like that. Our photographer always notices that, and does his best to make do with what we have at this point. But give us some of the basic tips with some of that that they need to do. I mean, other than really clearing personal items out of, you know, if we're talking about kitchen and baths, really just again decluttering. And then if we're having the designer or professionals on camera, you know, we recommend solid clothes. Nothing that's too busy with patterns. Not too much jewelry if we're having a microphone pinned to them, because then the jewelry clacks on the microphone. But again, it's just the cleanliness of the space and trying to, again, just make sure that the design is the star. All right, let's see. I was just looking at some of your other tips, too. They seem like they're kind of obvious, but I don't know. Sometimes they're not. I always say one of the things that we look for when we're looking for a cover image for the magazine is something that is in the middle styled, like not bare-bones styled and not too much. Like our other editor, our managing editor, Leslie, I'll find cover images that I like. And she'll say, yeah, but have you noticed the six things that are on the countertop in the background that like completely distract or a dish towel that they might think looked cute, but it looks like a dirty dish towel in the kitchen. So yeah, I'm well aware of the styling. I haven't had to do anything like that myself, but I've become sort of an expert along with Leslie and sort of judging that when we look at photos. So something to consider. All right, so let's move on to your pre-planning process. How do you make sure everything's set before the shoot starts? So part of, from the photography point, is definitely a virtual walkthrough of the space. We get on a Zoom call and look at any phone photos that the designer has or if they have videos of the space. And I just kind of ask her questions almost like a reporter. I want to know what the story is of the space, what was super challenging that maybe they were able to overcome a tricky wall situation. And they fit this custom cabinetry in a certain way. I like to know those sorts of details so that I can highlight that during our shoot. And then when we get on set, we do a walkthrough and kind of gauging light. And because I use a mix of strobes and natural light, never lights on. So then on the day of we're kind of shifting with the sun and where our best angles are going to be. And so we're not getting super hotspots on a marble countertop. So yeah, that's kind of it for the photo. And then part of the post of photo is obviously the retouching. But the post production is definitely super different between photo and video. And a lot can be done in post for photography more so than video. But yeah, that's kind of how my process works for the photography part. So they can you speak to it from the video side of things? Absolutely. Yeah. So a lot of the photography pre-production, like Lauren was talking about the walkthrough and all of the specific points or features of the kitchen, for example, that a client would want to feature or highlight. I piggyback on a lot of that pre-production and listen in on those conversations or more and built me in and tells me these are the specific things we want to feature. And then video specific, obviously like I said, we do a lot of content digging beforehand just to figure out what is important for developing the narrative, we outline certain talking points. And then also a lot of the pre-production process is just identifying the tone that the designer wants to convey through their social or not even just social, through their video content because there's just so many different tones and so many different ways that videos can be filmed and edited to showcase the specific energy and tone and branding that a client would want to convey. So just a lot of that digging beforehand to figure out all the answers to these so that the shoot day can go as smoothly as possible. And then obviously the talking points that will develop beforehand and really just setting it up for a smooth and successful shoot day. So a lot of the heavy lifting does happen in pre-production for the video. I would also add, it's also helpful for us for clients to save things from every kind of brand, content that they really like, whether it's photography, I really like the way this kitchen island is styled. Or I really love, it was really intrigued by this person's video content. And we try to stay away from the trends that are happening, especially on social, because we want to create more evergreen content for our clients, but also saving and sharing likes or dislikes with us is super helpful in planning as well. Yeah, just dumping in really quickly to go off of that, definitely straddling the line between keeping evergreen content, which I'm sure you know, but just in case it's just content that doesn't go with the trend of the day or the sound of the week, it's just more something that can live on and be classic and effective throughout the trends and just exist for hopefully the longevity of the content. But so yeah, straddling the line between obviously making something engaging and quick paced to meet the environment of the vertical scrolling that we're all in. But then also something that can be informative and also live longer than just the trend of the week. OK, so once you're ready to actually do the shoot, how can design and construct professionals help ensure that it's actually a success? I know you're going to help them along the way, but what can they be thinking about as well? Definitely the particular angles that kind of their vision of the space. And we really go through that with the pre-shoot walkthrough before we start shooting. If they're trying to highlight a waterfall edge on an island, that's something we talk about beforehand or they're like, I want to make sure I get a really great, straight shot of this countertop or this range. And those are-- we've talked about in pre-production, but then when we get there, we really hone in on the angles that the client is hoping to get. And then having the client involved as we're shooting is also important, especially for me from the photography side. And so I'm tethered to my laptop. And I want to have it be a real collaboration where we're looking at the images together and maybe adjusting a few things. Maybe we need to bring that base of flowers in a little more into the frame or-- I try to make sure that what I am attracted to and what I'm seeing compositionally is what the client is looking for as well. And so I try to make the day very-- it's a partnership for the day. And I try to really include the clients and all the parts of it. Yeah. Jumping in, Lauren, I'm glad you said the word partnership there because I feel like that was something when I was looking through the questions earlier today that really stuck out to me was the fact that obviously, we go through this full pre-production process and we're all as prepared as possible. But like, you know, you and I will show up. We've got all our equipment and we're prepared. But something that design and construction professionals can do that will really help the process be as smooth as possible is for them to also be prepared and know their talking point, know what they want featured. And then obviously, if they want a fridge featured, but they don't necessarily know the best angle for that, that's obviously where we would come in and then tell them the best angles, but obviously, if they have specific angles in mind or something, we want it to be as collaborative as possible. We want them to be as involved in the process. And it's never-- it's very collaborative. It's never any kind of a front of, oh, we don't want you to tell us what looks good because obviously, you've just spent so much time designing this. So you know what looks good. You know what wants to be shown off. And we want to obviously make sure that it's shown off as best we can. Yeah. We're not easily offended. So, you know, if this angle just isn't working for me and that's part of why we really want the collaboration because we want to make sure that our deliverables are exceeding their expectations. Yeah, definitely. And then the last thing-- Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. OK, I was just going to quickly say the last thing about video. Obviously, a large part of video, the day of, is just making people feel very comfortable and feel excited about their work because ultimately, this is work that they are very excited to show. And I know that obviously a shootday can be a little bit stressful and leaking it caught up in logistics and get into your head and not, you know, feel the excitement of showing off the hard work that you have been putting your effort into for these past weeks, months, years, however long the project has taken. So, definitely, we want the designer to feel the same enthusiasm that we do. And so, a lot of that is just making the environment as comfortable as possible. And, yeah, that's important to me and to Lauren as well. All right, so how can photography and videography complement each other and bring these design stories to life? I mean, with photography, I'm taking a three-dimensional space and just stealing it into a two-dimensional composition. So, you know, where everybody's very familiar with looking at still images, but, you know, the fun thing about using, having video and photography of the same space is that, you know, that three-dimensionality starts to come back in with video. So, you know, the photography is so important for editorial opportunities and, you know, SEO and portfolio, sales process, all that stuff. But, you know, the video is like that little bit of life is coming back into it. So, you know, I'd like to always say I want proof of life in a photo, just, you know, it's going to be selective. But, you know, video really, like, it adds that dimensionality back in, which is really fun. But, you know, I would say they're both equally important, but definitely complement each other in that way. Yeah, I very much agree. I think that what where video shines is, obviously, there is an interactive element to, for example, kitchens and design. Because, obviously, there is the beauty and making things look really, really beautiful and clean and everything, and then there's the functionality of these, for example, kitchens that, obviously, you design a kitchen to be used and to be lived in. And so, I think where video shines is definitely in the ability to showcase the functionality of cabinets that can open or, you know, there's a little spice rack that can pull out and it's very smooth and easy and just all of the moving elements, the transitional elements that photo can't really convey is where video shines. And then one thing I will say, plugging the fact that SEN Creative does both photo and video is, there is a convenience aspect to having only having to go through one company to have photo and video. But, also, beyond the convenience, there is a cohesiveness to the aesthetic of a project that I think comes from hiring a photo video team. Because Lauren and I have worked together for years and our shoot style is similar, our eye is similar, our color grading is similar, so it's very beneficial for people to have a photo video team because there is that cohesiveness in a look that you would want from one particular project from photo to video, different visual assets. You want them to look as cohesive as possible. And I do think that's where a photo video team is very strong. As opposed to hiring a separate photographer and a separate video team, which can definitely yield amazing results, it's just not necessarily as guaranteed to be cohesive. - Yeah, it seems more convenient as well. Okay, so I think we talked about a lot of this along the way, but what are some do's and don'ts when it comes to achieving a successful photo shoot? - I think something I come across especially with construction professionals is the importance of hiring an interior's photographer or an architectural photographer, not a real estate photographer. If you're looking to have your brand be more editorial and you want things published, that's gonna be super important. It's just a different skill set, a different workflow. And definitely our video is also more editorial and not real estate based. So I think that's a big difference. And I see a lot of clients come to me after they've used a real estate photographer or even a family photographer and they're disappointed with the results and it's definitely a different skill set and a different visual practice. So I would say setting yourself up with an interior's or architecture as a photographer will, that's like number one. It's just gonna give you, it's a little bit more investment, but it's gonna give you better results. If you're looking to move in that direction of either higher end construction design business or looking to pitch and kind of grow your brand and editorial way, it's super, super important. - Video perspective, this is a little bit different and it's a little bit more exact or it's a little bit more niche of an exact action item tip. But I would say obviously we have clients that come with a big over arching, I need XYZ kinds of contents, but then developing it further, developing it as we go through the pre-production process. And then I would love clients, a lot of people don't realize how quickly 30 seconds goes by 45 seconds a minute goes by. So once we've developed certain talking points, I would really recommend clients sit down and read through them at the pace with which they would want their voice to be shown or heard. And then they can see exactly how quickly 45 seconds goes by because a lot of times, you'll write out a paragraph of talking points and it'll all be really important information. But if you want a 45 second video, actually reading through all of that will take about a minute and a half to two minutes and clients don't necessarily recognize that. So just having the practicing speaking beforehand never hurt anybody. As you may be able to tell, I didn't practice that talking point before I just said it. So if I had practiced it, maybe you might have been a little more concise. But yeah, the chat GPT can help with that as well. If you have two paragraphs about how you picked out the marble for a marble slab, that's a great thing. I can help you with is to whittle it down. - Okay, so my last question is just what's some advice for potential clients to sort of just get started and help them prepare? I think it's really, it's coming to a photo of video shoot within tensionality. So, and that's part of what we talk about in our pre-production meeting is, okay, a lot of times people will come just with a portfolio ask and that's where we come in as professionals that have done this for a long time and we're kind of trying to expand on that and really help with that pre-planning and expanding their idea of what is possible with this investment that they're gonna be making. 'Cause on a photo shoot, they're not billing hours and I understand from their point of view that it's a lot. So I think, again, just our pre-planning and having a certain perspective on your project is super important. So I would, it's a little esoteric, but it's really, it's like really, really coming in with a sense of perspective about the project and how you feel about it and what the successes were. And yeah, just being thoughtful about it and that's obviously something we talk about a lot with our clients. - Yeah, and I feel like I keep just saying over and over the pre-production process, the pre-production process, I don't want it to feel big or daunting. I just wanted to stress the importance of it, but also even if, I guess I would love your listeners to know that even if they come to us with the, they know they need something, they know they need and they have a rough idea of something. Everything we've been talking about, figuring out a perspective or talking points or education tips or anything like that. It's our job or it's my job to ask clients the questions to get those answers out of them. Like even if you don't have the answers right up front to give us, you've been working on these projects for so long, you have the answers inside of you and it's just my job to bring them out. So even if you don't have things right at the surface that you're ready to go with, but you know that you need to create content or you want to create a video content from it, just approaching us with that is great and then I will talk people through the heavy lifting and we'll do that together. So definitely, it may feel daunting, but that process is not done in a vacuum. It is done with me, with Lauren, with people that will walk you through every step of the way. - Great, well Lauren and Sue Bay, thank you so much for speaking with our, me and our listeners today and I'm sure they got some great video photo tips and maybe this will take some of the fear out of all that because it's necessary. So I appreciate you're taking the time out of your busy schedules. - Yeah, thank you so much. - Yeah, thank you so much, Chelsea. This was a lot of fun. - Be sure to subscribe to KVB's YouTube channel and click the like button on our videos. 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