Philanthropy SA Episode 50 - Inga Cotton with School Discovery Network

(upbeat music) - Welcome to philanthropy essay. This is a podcast about and for the philanthropic community in San Antonio and South Texas. We introduce organizations and people who are making an impact in the community. Beneficent financial is proud to sponsor this podcast and it is our hope that you enjoy this conversation about the impact we can have. The goal is to edify and inspire. Now please join our host, Dan Rebman. (upbeat music) - Hi, welcome to philanthropy essay. I'm your host, Dan Rebman and very pleased today to be joined by Inga Cotton. She is the executive director of the School Discovery Network which formerly was known as something else, but I'm gonna let her tell that story. I don't need to get into all of that. And before we talk about school discovery network, which I am excited about because of the mission that it has and what it helps families do, tell us a little bit about you and go what brought you to San Antonio and why are you here? - Yeah, so I'm originally from California and I moved around a lot growing up and actually we were talking about this before we got on the air. We have both lived in Germany. So my dad was working as a civilian for the Army and was wondering where should I go to state side of it? Like you for adventure, where's the opportunity and the military people would tell them, "Oh, you gotta check out San Antonio." So he came to visit and fell in love with it. And so I landed here in high school and it was kind of a culture shock 'cause I had lived in California. I lived in Germany, but interacting with armed forces folks. But I also have fallen in love with Texas and San Antonio is home now. But some of those experiences definitely shaped me like showing up at a big comprehensive American high school and never having experienced like Friday night lights or just so many things about American culture and being named Inga and then nobody would actually believe I'm actually American, which I really am. I am part of the United States. - I don't know, yeah, but to your point, I even asked you, you know, as you came into the studio, it's like, you know, okay, so I haven't met many Ingas in the United States, but you know, several of them over in Europe. So I knew that there was a background there. But that's great and glad you got here to San Antonio like so many of us. And somebody told me on an airplane this weekend that San Antonio has two seasons, really, really hot and only kind of hot. And so that's where in the really, really hot phase right now, looking forward to the not quite so hot phase coming up. So you come to San Antonio, you are working on some stuff and tell me the story of kind of what got you into the nonprofit world because I kind of get the sense that you weren't like classically trained to be, you know, a nonprofit executive, you kind of fell into this. Talk about how that happened. - Yeah, that's true. No, I never thought I would do anything education related. Although I should have known 'cause there's a lot of teachers in my extended family. So I went to Trinity and then I went to UT Law and I wanted to practice law and I very quickly burned out and just realized this is not what I meant to do and I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So, but I was very lucky. I met my husband, he was a wonderful guy. We had two kids. I was working part-time at law firms. And then, you know, raising my kids, realizing that I think from birth, I realized my son was wired up a little differently. And then when he was three and a half, we found out he has autism. And then that was a wake-up call for me that I'm gonna have to work harder to be his advocate. I'm gonna have to try harder to find schools that are the right setting for him. And so I started doing research and hey, I am a lawyer, so I am a good researcher. And now I understand why I did that. Like what, you know, what path I was supposed to be on. And as I did the research, I realized there was not a good tool out there. It, like, you know, I could dig through databases, I could read statutes, but I had a hard time and I'm especially trained for this to be a researcher, not to know anything about education, but I have, you know, instincts as a mom of like what's gonna serve my kids well. And around the same time, a family friend, she also has kids about the same age and we'd meet up for play dates in her living room. So, you know, picture, you know, crayons flying around, you know, kids chasing each other with toys. And she's telling me about new charter schools coming to San Antonio. And I got really excited, 'cause actually my first college term paper was about school choice back in 1992. And the professor was like, this is a weird idea. Really? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really exciting. And then sort of set the idea aside. And, you know, didn't really feel like I could make a difference in it. And, but then as a mom being motivated, it's like, okay, I need to solve this for my own kids. And why don't I start a blog and share what I'm learning. And other folks can learn along with me. And so, and same thing. And so I found out my own friend is helping these new charter schools get established. In fact, I just drove by a basis, right? So they opened 2013, but the blog started in the spring of 2012. So actually, I sometimes pinch myself. I've been at this for a while. But I feel like the first five years or so were almost like an internship. Where my primary focus was raising young children, you know, my son and my daughter. But I put all of any free time I could find into researching education. Like what makes a good school? And what tools do parents need to be able to research? Which school's gonna be the right fit for their kids? Super. And so, originally when this all started though, you know, it wasn't called what it's called today, right? - It's a different name, that's right. - That's right. - That's right. So the original name was San Antonio Charter Moms, because they were a handful of us moms who were all friends and curious about these new schools that were coming. And, you know, it was kind of a collective effort. But then about a year ago, we rebranded as school discovery network. Because we realized we had really, as attached as I was to it, we had really outgrown that name. Because we do talk about a lot more than just charter schools. - Right, yeah, you do have information about private schools on the site, and I think some of the ISDs as well, right? - Yes. - So, you know, it's not a, here's just your choice among the charter schools. - Right. - So, walk us through some of the services that you provide and, you know, kind of who uses those services and then, you know, how you get the funding to be able to provide these services. - Yeah, yeah, so the initial project was a website, so it was a WordPress blog. And, after about a year, we realized like, there was no list of, you know, what are all the charter schools in town. So, we created that list. That has evolved into our school's map, which is a really important tool. And it has more than just charter schools on it, and it's got guides to, you know, any kind of school that a family could choose, right? Maybe not your neighborhood school that you're zone for, but any school that doesn't limit by what zone you're in. - Right, because like magnet programs at the ISDs, they're open to people outside of the normal, you know. - Right, you don't have to live right there. Yeah, and even, I mean, one of the big changes in the last year is that some of our destination districts, like North Side and Northeast, now you don't even have to live in the district, so you can, those are now open enrollment districts. - Oh, there you go. - Yeah, that's a, that's a recent change. So, yeah, so the website evolved into the school's map, but there's still lots of, what we call our evergreen content, like education tips. So, we just recently published a post about how to request a special education evaluation, and it's more complicated than you might think. There's timelines and stuff, it's very intimidating, but our team is really good at simplifying things and making it welcoming and accessible. So, and then we have a Facebook group, over 15,000 members in the group. I remember it took us like six months just to get to 100, but now it's a really big community. People answer each other's questions in there. And we, let's say, back in 2019, we started having what we call school discovery days, and these are school fares, and they've really grown. Like our first event had, you know, maybe a dozen folks, but we had, this past year, we had events with over 1,000 visitors per event. We had over 50 tables of different schools and organizations. So, families can do a lot of research in one day, and we go to really fun places like the zoo and the doozium. - There you go, those are, so it's, so it's kind of like a job fair, but for schools. - Yeah, it's a family can shop among, you know, 40 or 50 different schools in one day, which is easier than, I mean, I'm a huge advocate for school tours, like going on site and like meeting and talking to people, 'cause sometimes there's sort of nonverbal cues or like a gut feeling that helps you feel like, okay, this is the right fit. But you can quickly meet a lot of folks at a school fair, and come away with like a short list and be like, "Okay, I'm gonna apply to these schools. I'm gonna visit these schools." And then you'll find, you know, at least one or two that your kid's gonna be really happy at. - Right, and so what are some of the things like, you know, put yourself back in those early days, you're a mom of a kid and you're kind of suspecting, "Hey, maybe there's, you know, something that's, you know, that is gonna mean that the learning is gonna come in a different way than a mainstream type kid." What are some of those kind of signs that folks can be looking forward to say, "Hey, you know, maybe we're gonna need to be looking at some different types of choices when it comes to education." - Yeah, yeah, you know, they think every parent knows their own kid the best, and I think that's really important. I think everyone needs to trust their instincts. And also, you know, talk to your friends, 'cause like what seems normal to you, your friends might notice that like, well, not every kid, you know, takes out their dominoes, builds a pyramid out of it and knocks it down, or lines up all their cars that way, or something, you know, so you then, you know, those unique things. So, like, my son was an early reader and good at verbalizing with me, but he was not a good communicator with people outside the family. He would rarely speak at preschool. So, things like that where development doesn't line up with what's expected, like, that's a sign, you know, it's like, yes, get the diagnosis, you know, make sure that they're eligible for services, but also even, even like, there's things like, you know, if you have a kid who's really active, then you're like, okay, I need to find out how much recess time does this elementary school have, right? Or if you have a kid who's like super social and you know, they're going to talk a lot, you know, like, find that environment where that's a strength and that's celebrated instead of being punished. Sure. And so, but you also help families that they may not have any particular special needs, so to speak. They're just kind of trying to identify the best school for them and for their child. Yeah, I think, I think one of the, like, as this has been a learning process for me, but unfortunately, there are way too many kids in San Antonio who are below grade level on things like reading, writing, or math. And I want to point to city education partners who've done some great reports on this. They break it down by city council district. And, you know, in some parts of our city, there's like less than half of the kids are reading at or above grade level. And for math, it could be even lower. And so, unfortunately, what that means is, I mean, I think every nonprofit should ask themselves, how do I pull myself out of business? How do I solve this, right? Now, I don't think an education will ever solve it because parenting will never be solved, right? But like my dream is that you could, a kid could walk into any campus anywhere in San Antonio and get a great education. That's where we need to be. We're not there yet. Right now, there's, there's too much variation. Like, some schools are doing an outstanding job. And they have the majority of their kids are achieving well. And other schools are, you know, you look at the day and you wonder, like, why are these kids not being reached? Okay, do the people on campus have faith in these kids, right? Because every part of town, like, the kids can achieve, right? You can't write off certain parts of town or certain racial ethnic groups and say, well, those kids just aren't meant for college. That's, that's complete B.S. I reject that. I think any child anywhere has potential. And I learn that for my own son, you know, with the special education label, sometimes people would just write him off and say, what, do you think he's going to go to college? Oh, mom, your optimism is beautiful. I'm like, no, he's in college right now. He's a road runner. Go UTSA, birds up, man. He's, he's in college. And there were people who thought I was, I was crazy to believe that. And I'm like, no, no, no. I know that I know it's inside him. I will help him get there. And I want every family to believe that. Don't let anyone tell you just because you're from that part of town or, you know, parents don't speak English or parents didn't go to college like every kid can achieve. And so as you're getting that message out to people, what, what kind of outreach do you do in those communities, particularly the ones that may, for social economic reasons or whatever, kind of feel like, okay, well, all we've got available to us is, you know, our local school. Yeah, yeah. I mean, part of it is we provide our information by the goal. So English and Spanish and our team. So I'm kind of a fuddy daddy about how I use social media and like I tend to write long blog posts. But, you know, our team is great about making things really dynamic, like short videos and, you know, getting those out to, to more markets. And, you know, one of the things we do is by our events, by offering free admission to great places like the zoo or the museum that will attract families who want to have that experience for their kids. And then while they're there, then they also get the information about education. And I really want to open people's eyes that they're, they're not necessarily locked in. Like they may have a, your neighborhood school may be the best place to go, right? We have some wonderful neighborhood public schools in San Antonio, but you do have options. So if your child needs a unique learning model, so we talk a lot about, you know, like I have kids who like liberal arts, like they love reading and poetry and stuff, but they also love STEM, right? So my son graduated from a STEM high school. My daughter is currently at a STEM school and she's studying robotics and she wants to solve robot vision. And, you know, how, how are robots going to live in our houses with us? And I'm a little freaked out, but I think she'll solve it. Well, as long as I do my dishes, I'm, I'm good with the robots. Just tell your daughter to get them doing the dishes for us. Yeah, yeah. She's fed up with tourists. You know, then that'll be hung on the list. Yeah. 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It is possible that in the pursuit of purpose we can leave a legacy of philanthropy and a lifestyle of service where you made every act of kindness count and every investment made the world a better place no matter the amount. This is what success can look like when we team with intentionalities were achieved more than we ever thought we could where our mission meets your life's vision and where you're set up to do well so that you can do good. Thanks for joining us today on philanthropy BSA. I'm joined by Inga Cotton. She is the executive director of the school discovery network and something happened a few years ago here inga that I think probably had a pretty profound impact on school choice in the state of Texas where some funding became made available and I'm surprised how many people still aren't even aware of this. Can you kind of walk people through you know some some funding that the state has made available to people as they're making these decisions? Yeah so one of the biggest changes so Texas basically went from zero to 60 and one year in terms of private school choice and they it's called Texas education freedom accounts and right now with this school year this is the first time that there are students attending private schools or homeschooling with financial assistance from the state of Texas and this has been a big project that we've worked on in the past year is trying to make sure families are aware of this and that the families who need it the most can access it because the the highest priority goes to families with kids with special needs who are low to middle income. Okay and so these are funds that are then available that do the funds go directly to the families do they go to the schools how does that get distributed and how does how does somebody who is like just hearing about this for the very first time say oh wow I need to find out more. Yeah so actually so we have a Texas education freedom accounts tab on our website and right now there's an interest list that families can sign up for it and if they sign up for that they'll get notified when the next application cycle open so the best thing you do right now is research and like look at different private schools and on our website and also on the state portal they'll tell you which private schools are accepting a type of fund so it could be like $10,000 per year towards tuition it's the money doesn't go to the family it's in a portal and so what you do is you'll log in and you'll say okay my child's accepted at the school right like sanitary encryption school and then you designate certain amount of money to be sent from your wallet to the school to pay for tuition but also meals uniform school supplies it could also go to educational therapies and that's really supportive of the the kids with IEPs. Very good and so what's the what is your website let's give the URL for your website so people can find it it's a school discovery network dot org school discovery network dot org no punctuation just slap it all together like one big long German word so I had to throw that in here talking German earlier but yeah school discovery network dot org and that's where you can find out information about getting on that list so that you'll know the next time a cycle starts up and can get access to some of those funds and that brings up another issue so what do you say to the folks who say that all of this choice in schools whether it's charter private with the the theft of funding and that type of thing is weakening the public schools or is detracting from the concept of universal public education that way yeah I think I think what it is the world is changing and the world of education needs to adapt and serve students and families and I think what we saw is that the the old model wasn't working anymore because it's really hard for one building to serve every student who's in that geographic area and when now we're seeing is like you know job like jobs are changing like what are we preparing students for and how do we keep especially teenagers, how do we keep them engaged with learning? We need to pay a picture for them of a future where they can be citizens, they can be engaged, they can be productive. You don't drop out of society and just give up. Instead, think about what are you passionate about, what problems do you want to solve? I think schools that have specialized learning models do a great job with that. Maybe they want to learn about philbotomy or welding or whatever. Then you come out of high school, you're ready to hit the ground running with that. My daughter and her STEM program, but it starts even younger, families who want a Montessori model because they want their kids to be really hands-on with their learning. We've seen the job training type programs that occur and that type of thing. My daughter teaches at a high school out in Kirk County and they have people graduating from high school with their LPNs and ready to go and do that work. There's specific career fields that you can do. Of course, that's been done in some of the magnet programs for years. Those types of programs are out there, but I think as people get the opportunity to look at all the options that are available and figure out what fits best for them. It may be home school, it may be a private school, it may be a charter school, or it may be the local public school, but getting that information and making that choice proactively and saying, "No, this is the best place for our kids. I think that's kind of what you're trying to do." We don't want, I guess when the blog started, is there weren't enough high-quality options or when they started to open, they'd have huge waiting lists in families who get really discouraged. Instead, we're in a different environment now, which is better. Even really good schools don't tend to have such long waiting lists. It's much more hopeful, but yeah, we're going to get in. Also, what's exciting about how things are now is that there are so many choices to choose from. We just want to help families understand them and not feel overwhelmed by the amount of choices they have. We've got tools that help them understand, "Okay, if my kid has these interests, let's focus in more on this type of school." One of the things that happens within, I mean, we know studies too much choice is actually paralysis by analysis. This is the cheesecake factory menu concept. You go to cheesecake factory, they've got all this kind of great stuff, but it's almost too much. You've got to narrow down and figure out what you're going to do. That kind of thing. Now, the opposite end of that equation is Cain's chicken. It's like, "Okay, how many strips do you want? Do you want close-lar or not?" Because that's really your only choice there. I have no idea why I decided to go down the food road down here, but I have a hunch that Catherine won't edit that out for me. Anyway, let's back up a little bit. We talked about what your organization does and that type of thing, but you were a person who founded this organization because you saw this hole in services and said, "Okay, well, we're going to come up with something and do this." Then you found yourself running an organization. I know that you went through a program offered through social venture partners called the Fellowship, which is designed for people who are running an organization and need help, not with the delivery of the services because you already do what you were doing there and what you were trying to do, but the notion of how to run an organization. Talk a little bit about what the Fellowship did for you and what you got to learn through that process. Yeah. Well, I'm really proud that I was part of the inaugural group of the SVPSA Fellows. We were the guinea pigs, but it was a great experience. It came at a great time for us because the organization was kind of a passion project for the first five years. Then in 2017, we got funding, but we used a fiscal sponsor for about a year. Then 2018, we got our determination letters. We were officially a nonprofit. Then the inaugural year was 2019-2020. It was at a point where I had a lot of questions about how to run an organization well, especially in areas that are outside my area of strength. Anything about finance or accounting, I had sort of a handle on small business concepts, but it just needed to be really open to new information. I needed a place where I could ask stupid questions and not be embarrassed. I thought SVP did a great job of bringing people in who were both super knowledgeable, but also non-judgmental and really good listeners. Our cohort really bonded and we felt safe asking anything around each other. For the most part, folks who I think like us were in growth or reimagining phase, trying to set up new processes or expand their team or learn how to delegate things better. Everything came from a place of caring. Sure. With that, you're still in touch with some of the cohort people today, right? Yeah. That's true. That's really, I think, one of the neat parts about that program. If you want to know more about the fellowship, it was just a couple episodes ago. We were talking to Becky and Harriet about social venture partners and encourage you to listen into that. As we record this, it's very, very late August of 2026. We're actually just on the selection for next year's group. It'll be next spring time frame or early summer, call it May/June time frame when folks who are interested in the fellowship will be able to apply again. Not so shameless plug there for social venture partners in the fellowship. One of the things that you've already mentioned, some other agencies or entities that you work with, talk about the collaboration with other folks that are in the education space. I mentioned that because when you were talking about reading and that kind of thing, I'm thinking about my friend Charla Bell, a project transformation, and they work on getting people to maintain their reading levels over the summer so they're not coming back. There's all these organizations and how they fit together. Talk about some of the organizations that you've worked with over the years. Yeah. We're always trying to watch what different government entities are doing because so much of education relies on state policy. I think that I really encourage people to like watch what's happening at the state legislature and the state board of education because we're always trying to adapt to what folks are doing. But then I think locally, I guess like our role is to be this information source for families and I feel like that there are a lot of great programs that just aren't reaching enough families yet. So although our events primarily involve schools, we will bring in non-school organizations and we'll also feature them on our social media or other channels because like I think whatever a family is trying to do for their kids, there's probably a program out there. But the family may not be able to be matching up with that organization or with that service. One thing I've noticed also is that so there are gosh, I've lost track. But I mean there's dozens and dozens of charter schools in town, but they're not necessarily organized in big districts or networks the way, right? I mean San Antonio has a lot of independent school districts, right? Unlike Austin, Dallas, or Houston, like you know, we have, it was like depending on how you count it, like about 18 different school districts that cover our county. But the charter schools are even more diverse than that. And so sometimes these nonprofits want to communicate with charter schools, but they don't know how to track them all down. So we do have, we have like an email list, the stuff that goes out to schools. So we're able to kind of elevate like, you know, professional development programs for teachers. And they want to reach out to charter schools, but just don't know who to talk to. So yeah, charter schools don't have, you know, the same, you know, I guess centralization of some of those kinds of things that you see in the public school system. What about on the homeschooling side? Is that something that you help people decide about as well? Yeah, we do. So I think homeschooling gets trickier once your kids get to the high school age, then you're trying to build a transcript, you're trying to prepare them for college applications and stuff. So one of the things we do is we'll connect people with different services that help with things like that transcript writing, you know, and then I think one of the myths about homeschoolers is that they, they're actually not home that much. They're out, they're out exploring our city as much or even more than the kids who are in, you know, a physical school building. Sure. So we're encouraging those families to connect and, you know, make use of the resources that are out there. Yeah, and I know there's resources for folks like, you know, you get to certain levels of particularly math and science at the high school level, and not every parent is prepared to teach all of those things. So I know they'll band together and have people, you know, with more specialized training in those areas, you know, help in that, particularly as you get into the more advanced levels that way. Actually, that's something that the Tifa funds can do. So if you're like, I can teach the humanities, but not the math and science to my high school, or then even, even charter schools or traditional public schools can sell all the cart those advanced classes. Very good. I didn't know that, I didn't know that you could get like going for just science or just math and that kind of thing. So that's interesting. Talk about to athletics figure in to this equation and all, as people are trying to figure out where they're, what, because, you know, shopping for the right sports team, I think, has been around since before some of the, since before charter schools are around. So yeah, sports is a factor when families are researching schools. and some charter schools offer a pretty wide variety of sports. But I would say like tackle football is not as common among charter schools. It's an expensive sport to run. So you might find flag football maybe, but maybe not. There's a few, there's a few charter schools that have like full-on football teams and marching bands and cheer and pep and all that. But so that it's definitely a factor because some people would say, well, that's not academic, but it builds cohesion. It builds a school culture and school community. So sports are a factor as far as like, you know, so sports are not included in the Texas education freedom accounts stuff. But, you know, I'm a big fan of like, you should listen to your kids and fight out what their passions are and, you know, support them as best you can and whatever they are curious about because you don't know what it might lead to. And beyond athletics, you've also got the arts with, you know, whether it's drama or band or, you know, those types of things. As well that, you know, some kids might be interested in it. It's important to know whether a school has that program or not. Yeah, yeah. And there's even things like, like I met some folks who run, they have a, their business is 3D printing and they work with government contractors in the military and, but then they also will help, like, what school pods set up, like a 3D printing class. And they'll teach kids the, like, how to use CAD and print the pieces that they've designed and stuff. So, so even beyond things that didn't exist a generation ago. And now it's like, yeah, yeah, I know somebody does that. [laughs] Very good. So, as we are recording this, schools been going on a couple of three weeks already and that type of thing. Is it too late if a parent's like, wow, I don't think this is the right fit for my kid? What are, what are the options now? Do they just have to tough it out until the semester end or something? No, it's, it's definitely not too late. I mean, some charge schools have limited enrollment, so they may just be full. So, but that, that's not true as much as it used to be. There's more supply now, more good schools have opened. And actually, we have a feature on our website where you can click open seats. And we're always checking with schools about what grades I have that are open. So, if a family needs to make a switch quickly, they can zero in on the ones that have open seats. But they still need to ask those questions about, like, what's unique about my kid and what's unique about the school? And, you know, definitely, like, do things like go into school to ask questions, you know, maybe observe a classroom if possible. And then, you know, you can get, there will be a place for your kid. I feel like I was, there were times I felt discouraged and I just kept searching. And there are some really amazing places in this town. There are indeed. So, Inga, I think you've got a big event coming up that for people who are listening to this right after we record, because both of my subscribers, you know, are diligent about, you know, doing that. Hi, mom. Tell us about an event you've got coming up in October. Yes. Okay. So, on October 17th, we're going to have our first school of scurvy day of the upcoming season and it's going to be at the San Antonio Zoo. And we're going to have a whole bunch of schools there. And the first 1,000 people who register will get free admission to the zoo for the rest of that day. And registration opens on August 31st. August 31st, registration opens. October 17th is the date and you get to go to the zoo for free. That's right. It's like a time share. You just have to listen to it. No, it's not like that at all. But you do get the opportunity to hear from a bunch of great schools. If you're interested. That's right. And they'll be giving away stuff like, you know, uh, uh, slinkies and pencils and things like that. Yeah. Who doesn't want swag? Right. Right. Thanks for telling us about that. Um, so we're kind of getting up towards the wrapping things up. What is something that, you know, you were hoping I'd ask you about that I didn't, or just something you want to make sure that the audience gets a chance to hear? I hope that people don't come away overwhelmed. I hope they feel excited about what the potential is out there. But if they do feel overwhelmed that they, you know, come to us and we will help break it down. So if, you know, if they want to, like, on their website, you know, the school's covering network.org, you know, the school's map. We have a starter guide and we also have lots of blog posts to explain different kind of education and parenting topics. They can join our Facebook group. We have a weekly email newsletter. So we really wanted to get the information out there and help people feel more confident about that they can find the right choice for their kids. That, that's sort of at the family level, but also I want people to feel optimistic about education unlike the community wide, like city wide or statewide level, because I'm optimistic about the changes that are happening. And I know that sometimes there's, you know, clickbait or noise in the news, but fundamentally, I think there's a lot of care about the quality of the education that kids are getting. Are they learning, reading, writing, and math? And are they able to explore their interests? Are they getting ready for careers that are going to be meaningful in the future? I think there's a lot of reason to be optimistic. And I also think that our, in our community, there's funders, philanthropists that are watching this issue, that care about this issue, that are investing in this issue. I want those folks to feel hopeful and not discouraged about, well, we've been trying for so long. I really feel like some things are breaking loose now. And we're going to see a lot of positive change in the near future. Very good. So on behalf of philanthropy essay, I'm your host Dan Rudman. Thank you, Inga, for joining us today. It was great to hear about your program. And I just want to remind everybody out there to do well so you can do good. Thank you for joining us at philanthropy essay. We hope you found something to inspire you during today's conversation. If you know organizations and people who are making an impact in the community, we would love to hear about it. Until next time, do well so you can do good.