Phantom Of The Neighborhood - Acme, Washington

This week, in Acme, Washington, a young woman vanishes while on a jog on her very rural road, and when she's found brutalized and very dead, it's clear that there's a very sick person in the area, even prompting police to look into the Green River Killer, but it turns out to be the most ordinary guy possible. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another crazy, wild, insane edition of Small Town Murder, as it is every week. That should be no shock. Oh, it's a crazy one this week? Didn't expect that. Super weird. Strange. I've been saving them. It's great. Yeah, you know, save them up for now. Before we get to that, though, absolutely head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Tons of merchandise there, but get your tickets to live shows. That is what we're talking about. Definitely September the 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Not a ton of tickets left for that one, so if you want them, I suggest getting them now. And then the next night, September 19th in Minneapolis at the State Theater, get your tickets right now. That's going to be great. We can't wait for those. Two more months to go, and we're excited for it. And then for the rest of the year, we're in Dallas, Sacramento, San Jose in October, and then Tarrytown in Boston in November. So get those tickets. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com is where you do that. Definitely also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions, because you like comedy, and they're very funny. So check that out. Then get Patreon. That's what you need. There you go. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports. P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Crime in Sports, just like the name of that show you should listen to. This, and what you do for that is, anybody $5 a month or above, you get everything. Everything. 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And she has so many wild excuses. It's crazy. Can't wait. I love her incredulous face. She's real good at it. Yeah. It's that thing. She pulls a good, I don't know what you mean. Like, she practiced that as a kid a lot. Cookie, huh? Broke the lamp, what? What cookie? Ball in the house, nuh-uh. So check that out. In addition to that and all the stuff you get, all the, you know, the actual episodes. The everything? The everything. You also get everything we put out ad-free as well. Right. All our shows, Crime in Sports, Your Stupid Opinions, and Small Town Murder. And you get a shout-out at the end of the regular show, which is this one, where Jimmy will mispronounce your name. What the fuck else do you want? That's all you can have. That's all we got. So that said, disclaimer time. Yeah. This is a comedy show, everybody. It is. It's a comedy show. We're comedians. Obviously, people are going to die. You saw the title of the show. Yeah. So people are going to die, and we're going to make jokes. And you're going to go, well, how does that work? That sounds weird. It's not that weird, actually. There's plenty of stuff to make fun of. We make fun of a small town, because we're all from somewhere worth making fun of. We'll make fun of maybe a bumbling police force that lets somebody go free and doesn't do their jobs, and more people get killed. We'll make fun of murderers. Because why, Jimmy? Because fuck them. That's why. Exactly. But what we don't do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. You know, that works. There you have it. That's very simple. That's how it goes. If you think that true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, you might not like this show. But I think you might. You should stick around, check it out, and here's the deal we'll make. Either way, no complaining later. How's that sound, everybody? That's a good deal. That's a good deal, I think, for everyone here. So that said, I think it's time to sit back, clear the lungs here. What do we say? Arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. Let's do it. Round it up. We're going to Washington, everybody. Fucking A. Let's do it. Pacific Northwest, here we come. We're going to Acme, Washington, here, which is in northwestern Washington, way up in northwestern Washington, north of Seattle up there. It's about an hour and 35 minutes to Seattle and about an hour 40 to Vancouver, British Columbia. So kind of right in the middle of those two. And an hour 45 to 40. Freeland, Washington, which is our last Washington episode, way back episode 657. So it's been a while. For some reason, I completely spaced on Washington. I usually try to do them and stagger them at a normal rate. And this one, I was like, we haven't done Washington in a long ass time. This is crazy. That was the Beauty Queen conspiracy murder. I think that was a crazy episode. I oftentimes lump Oregon and Washington into the same state. I think a lot of people do. They're the same. It's rainy and foresty. It's all. Pretty much exactly the same. There's a border. But, you know, I mean, it's fine. It's Vermont and New Hampshire. Identical. Vermont and New Hampshire. Identical. They are even the same state, just upside down. Just upside down. So they fit with each other. It's fucking ridiculous. Yeah, it's the same thing. That's the northeastern Oregon, Washington. Washington and Oregon would be the same shape if it weren't for that little. Yeah, a little shit. The water. The Kewley shit up at the top. Yeah, all that water. That pesky, that pesky shoreline. It tends to make things unique. This is in Whatcom County. It's like Whatcom, like what.com is what it looks like. There was a dot in there. Area code 360. A little bit of history. There are two accounts on how the name Acme came to be and how it happened here. The first of these theories is that Acme was named by a guy named Samuel Parks after 18, around 1887, after the name of a hymnal. In his possession. What's that? Something religious. Hymn is in there. I assume something. He had a. Oh, a hymnal is a book, right? You know, you're asking. I don't know. It's a book of hymns, I think. I hear him. I think. Yeah. Something religious. It's got. That's what it has to be. The second claims that the same year in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymnal. And the second claims that the same year in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymnal. And the third claims that the same year in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymnal. And the fourth claims that the same year in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymnal. And the fifth claims that the same year in 1887, a resident named George Parles named the town after a local church's newly received Acme hymnal. But it's hilarious that they made all of that and then they made giant rockets for coyotes to explode in the desert. And giant anvil, way too big anvils that really are useless for any purpose. What purpose is that anvil for, honestly, other than trying to crush a stray roadrunner? I can't think of it. Was he supposed to be eating the roadrunner? Was that the idea? He wanted to kill it and eat it, yeah, but he couldn't catch it. That's the biggest fucking roadrunner I ever saw, too. That thing was taller than him. Yeah, it was crazy. It was huge. Good eating. Good eating in that roadrunner. So either way, that's what it is. Acme is the Greek word meaning culmination or highest point. So acme is, this is in a river valley, so it grew into a place where people started coming. They built schools and post offices and a general store and everything like that. And they had dirt roads, actually, that they built that were placed. Yeah. Just the walking and horse trails they had. By the time of the Great Depression, the local timber started to run out. Running out of trees. Oh, no. That quick. Girl tapped. They deforested fast. Real fast. So then there was no more logging jobs, so the population shrank in this area. Now, they have a maple syrup thing here, apparently. It's reportedly home to the only big leaf maple syrup producer in the western United States. Big leaf? I don't know what that is. I don't understand it, but they make it, and it's the only one in the west. I'm not sure. Are there little leaf maples? I have no clue. Or small leaf, I imagine. Two things I'm unsure about and I don't have a great vast field of knowledge on are hymns and maple syrup. I'm not positive. I don't know a lot about this. The size of maple leaf. I don't know a lot about that. You'd have to be a religious scholar, a botanist, to know everything this show has. It's really too much. Timberman. Timberman. Now, reviews of this town, I only found one, because it's a very small town. Here's five stars. The town is quite small, but also very welcoming, and it provides a comforting and friendly environment. So the opposite of what normal small towns are. Yeah, they're very welcoming. The views are gorgeous due to the nature around the area, as well as views of the Twin Sisters Mountains. Right. This town is a town that will put you at ease. You bet. Put you right at ease, Jimmy. Now, people in this town, population, it varies, okay, from where you look. But it seems like in Acme proper, there's like 100 people. Then in the zip code, which encompasses kind of all the surrounding stuff, there's like 223 people. So that's the whole area. It's about 225. There's nobody here. It's empty. There's more men than women. I don't know. That's usually only small towns have that, 50.9% men. Median age is 41.4, which is, I think, three years older than the national average. It's 44.6% married. This is a stat you only get in a small town, very small, because there's not enough people. 0.0% divorced. Wow. No divorced people live here. That's amazing. 100% married or 100% married? Never married. 100% single or married. That's it. No divorced people. Race of this town. Well, I guess widowed isn't divorced either, right? It's widowed, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that would be amazing. Well, I consider myself divorced. My husband was eaten by a bear. That's a dissolved wedding for sure. Yeah, it's not a marriage anymore. Race of this town, 95.3% white. And in Acme proper, it's 100% white, just in the zip code outside. It's a few more. So, 2% Hispanic and 2.8% two or more races. I'm assuming white and Hispanic would be my guess. Now, 29.7% of the people here are religious. There's a giant volcano nearby. I would assume you'd go- Oh, really? Yeah, that you'd go, okay, whatever's going on, that's the reality here is there's a giant volcano. I don't know if it's active or not. It's active, right? Beats the shit out of me. I mean, if it's a volcano, it's- Volcanoes, maple leaves, hymns, I am tapped. I don't know shit about it. There's a volcano in northern Arizona, too, that's active. It hasn't erupted in- Hundreds of years or whatever. Who the fuck knows? Yeah, yeah. Active can be dormant for a long, long, long time. Mount St. Helens is technically active, right? Yeah, last time that happened was like 81 or something, right? Yeah, 81 or 82, something like that. 81, 82, early 80s, it popped, I remember. But, I mean, that was 45 years ago. Fuck. That's a long time ago. Now, 29.7% religious, like I said. And the highest one- Yeah. The highest one here is other Christian, and it's really broken up. That's only 9%, so it's broken up. 2% Lutheran, 0.6% Episcopalian, 0.3% Jewish, it's a hodgepodge. Unemployment here, slightly above average, as I don't know how it wouldn't be with only 225 people around. Median household income here for the zip code, though, $102,014 a year, which is well above the national average. That's not bad. Now, cost of living, also a little bit high. $100,000 is regular average. Here, it's $117.5. Goddamn. High. Housing is the high, high one, too. Median home cost here, $470,600. And we're not talking for 100 acres or for big mansions. We're talking for family homes. It is $500,000 for a rundown family home. And if you want to find some of them- Yeah. Because you want to be people 224 and 225. 225, moving into this town. We have for you the Acme, Washington real estate report. All right. Your average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,070, which I don't know how many two-bedroom rentals. Yeah. I don't know how many there would be here, though. That can't be many. Here is, the first one is just a lot. 41.71 acres, this lot. Wow. Big lot. You know, gorgeous. It says mountain views, mountain views, road access, trees, elk, trees, creek, wetlands, even touches the mighty Samish River at its headwaters. And there's elk. Yeah. There's elk. That's fun. That is going to be $280,000. Can you hunt elk on your own property? I assume so. Up there, probably. I imagine you can kill that, right? I think that you could probably do. You can do pretty much whatever you want up here. I don't think there's a lot of- Yeah, I don't think with 40 acres, many people are coming around. No. Here is another house, two-bedroom, one-bath, small, 1,992 square feet. So not a huge house, but decent. Nice inside, well-maintained, very nice landscaping. It's built in 1900, this house. Wow. So very old time here. Only a 1.595-acre lot, so good size property. Two acres. Two acres. $445,000 for that. $445,000 for that, though. Two acres for- That's rough. This next one- To be out in the middle of fucking nowhere. Two-bed, one-bath, 966 square feet. It is an ugly green box, this house. Just an ugly green box. It's on 0.8 acres of land. Yeah. But it is right on the river, like the rivers in your yard. The river's about 100 feet from the house. Is that the Samish? No, this is the Nukesack. Or Nutsack, or whatever the hell it's called. Yeah. That one, because that plays a prominent role in our story, too. But it is right on the river. So that is $575,000 for that. A shack on the river. There you go. I didn't know a river house was sought after. Fuck, I guess so. I mean, a river, that's nice. The houses on the Hudson are nice. They're good old houses, I know. But this isn't the Hudson, either. This is- Right. This river doesn't look a lot bigger than the creek that's behind my house. That's what I mean. Yeah, it's not. In the past, they're real loosey-goosey with the word river. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, people hear creek, and then they come to my house, and they go, holy shit, this is a fucking river. It's a lot of creek. They were expecting some dribbling water through some rocks. They're like, this is a lot of something. Things to do here, not a lot in a town of 225. Live music at the Acme Diner Beer Garden. All right. Go watch the show at the diner. Tom's playing. Be there. Well, let's find out. First of all, we have live music from Paradox. Fucking A. Bring your lawn chairs, grab your favorite food and drinks from the Acme Diner, and settle in for a night of fun in the beer garden. Hold on. This is outside. It's outdoors in the beer garden. At the diner, outside the diner. Sit in the diner parking lot and watch this. Even Ludacris is like, no, I can't even send one of my clones there. I can't even do it. There's also Mudbottom Maddie. Who's she? I don't know. I don't know. Folk music for the fun of it, it says. All right. Also there, Charlie Parton. Not Parton like Dolly. P-A-R-T-I-N. He wants you to think he's related to Dolly, though, if you hear. Soulful, raspy vocals and heartfelt stories. Charlie Parton. Huge tits. What an asshole. He's a tit, all right. Unless that's his real name, he's a douchebag. Unless his parents named him Charlie. Heartfelt storytelling, blending raw country and Americana into a sound that's perfect for a laid-back night in the valley. Oh, he's trying to be. That's what she is. That's exactly what it is. She has a rags-to-riches story that's beautiful. Raspy vocals is his thing, though. Aspen Birchfield. Acoustic indie folk set. Oh, God, that sounds terrible. Aspen Birchfield. That's two different kinds of trees. Aspen Birchfield, exactly. The Groove Doctors. Right. It's probably like the drummer from the Spin Doctors, and he's like, well, they kicked me out of the fucking band, and no one knows who I am. This is white people, the Groove Doctors. There's no groove to be had. An electrifying mix of blues, rock, R&B, classic covers, originals, you know, horse shit at a beer at a diner. No, you're too white for this. Stop it. The Happy Accidents. That's one of my favorite names. That's good. Blending blues, rock, folk, and country, they deliver a soulful, feel-good sound of original music. They get your toes tapping and your heart singing. Oh, God, how old am I? How about The Enchantrix? What? With an X. Enchantrix. That sounds sexual. It sounds like a sex toy. It sounds like a dildo. I got my wife The Enchantrix. Now she won't fucking come out of the room anymore. She locks the door. I can't get her out. It twists and thrusts. This Enchantrix ruined my marriage, man. It's enchanting tantric sex without me. It's too much. It came in a box. It's the size of a fucking Chevy. It was crazy. It spins. It's got pearls inside. How am I supposed to compete? There's other things. There's a tentacle arm that comes off and diddles her. There's a lot going on. I'll stick out this thing. Too much. It barely gets hard anymore. Fuck. They have killer guitar riffs, powerful female vocals, and a big dynamic sound that keeps the energy up. How about J.P. Falcon Grady? Falcon. Falcon Grady, a Native American singer-songwriter. From Browning, Montana. Okay. Oh, we got an out-of-towner. An out-of-towner. He drove all the way here for this. And then the Saltwater Cowboys. Okay. They're local. Local country band, it sounds like. That's a crime rate in this town. What we are interested in. Property crime. This is crazy. This is a town of 225 people. Yeah. Almost double the average for property crime. What? We've never heard of this in a small town. And you'd think, well, maybe that's an anomaly. Maybe. Somebody last year went nuts and broke out a bunch of car windows and drove up. the crime rate well no violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the Mount Rushmore of crime is almost triple the national average what the fuck is happening in this place always do you know if it's year after year that keeps doing this not sure that's what it is this time unless they had a real bad year that last year this is great calm the fuck down is it meth is that what's going on I don't know mountain air babe that said that's not mountain air it's on the coast right no it's inland a little bit but it's by them in the mountains but anyway let's talk about some murder what do you say here everybody let's get let's get murdery okay wow interesting here let us go back in time shall we let's go back to 1989 right okay let us go back here and let's talk about a young lady first off okay now we're going to talk about Amanda Teresa Mandy she goes by Mandy because her name's Amanda Stavik S-T-A-V-I-K now Mandy here she's born April 16th 1971 in Anchorage Alaska is that right the family's from Alaska her father's Glenn her mother's Mary and they come from Alaska you know what I can't really pin that down exactly the reason or if they were just from Alaska I'm not sure that's I'm running from something or you know went up there for the oil rush and never left I'm not sure what happened she has two sisters Mary Alice and Molly Mary Alice and Molly Mary Alice is one person and has two brothers Brent and Lee she's got a couple of stepsisters too we'll talk about also now in 1974 Mary and Glenn her parents are divorced oh so she's about three years old when her parents split up here now August of 1975 when she's about four years old the family has some serious tragedy here she has a brother who is 16 years old at this point named named Brent okay Brent was found on federal property in Alaska absolutely riddled with rifle bullets I mean they say some people said he was shot as many as 19 times 16 years old 17 17 times 16 years old 17 shots 16 years old yeah it's a young man yeah he was a kid out hunting he was on federal property near the state of Alaska way station on the Glenn Highway and he'd been bow hunting according to his friends and he was found riddled with rifle bullets and covered up with brush so this is on purpose yeah nobody mistook him for a moose or anything this is murder they tried to cover it this is wounds to the head and chest too they wanted him dead whoever shot him oh he did something that someone didn't like the father here Glenn said as far as the circumstances they never found any clues or any reason for the murder he was just found shot it's still unsolved to this day 51 years later still unsolved so if anybody knows who killed Brent in 1975 in the woods in Alaska he'd be 67 years old today yeah yeah he was born in 59 this poor kid so this is horrible he should he should have grandkids now yeah instead he's been dead for since before we were both born fucking crazy that's a lot man um uh so then the fucked up thing is he was shot 17 times um and they tried to solve it and tried to solve it including they said that um there was a prison escapee Alan Wayne Hurley uh here they said there's no solution in this they said the gunshot uh killing and the Alan Wayne Hurley prison escape according to the FBI they said we're still conducting a lot of inquiries in this in the crimes um first they were wondering if the person who escaped from prison killed him right but then they said they think they're separate and they're trying to find some guy who escaped and also this guy um so never solved nobody arrested at all now she's got a stepsister Mandy does named Bridget here now Bridget said that her and Mandy were very close they enjoyed you know riding horses sledding and ice skiing and climbing hay bales you know that all backwoods he should yeah this is very Alaska sledding ice skating riding horses yeah totally and they were very close growing up so she did stuff like that Mandy will talk about she's a very good athlete excellent athlete yeah really really good like a four sport athlete oh excellent um in October 1983 that is when mom um her remaining brother Lee who was very young at this point I believe was six seven something like that um and one of her two sisters moved to Washington got it they come down to the mainland here because mom wanted a safe Alaska wasn't safe she thought you know how Alaska is it's you know crazy so well my son was just murdered by seven shots it's dangerous here that's why but that was eight years earlier yeah so something was happened in the in the 80s I don't know what it was but she said I need to go somewhere safe I'm going to take my remaining alive children yeah and go somewhere safe here um so they pick what calm County and they pick Acme which is just a Acme is barely a town I mean it's a speck of a town it's on Highway 9 which is about an hour or half an hour east of Bellingham it's middle of nowhere um you know not they have a general store and that's it so Mandy thrives in this environment um she graduates from Mount Baker High School in nineteen ninety-one and she's a soccer player she's been a soccer player since 1989 she was a starter for the girls basketball team for three years also played softball ran track and cross-country and was on the cheerleading squad for the football team too Wow in other words she left the house at 6:00 in the morning and came home at like 8:30 at night every day I mean there's that's so busy yeah you have practice for something every day after school and those are sports that go different seasons so she's not doing all four of them at once but she's probably doing two at a time she's always busy yeah always doing something there's no time when none of those sports are going on softball track cross-country football or basketball yeah that's year-round sports it's year round that's yeah that's busy you're doing two at a time probably right it has to be well in addition to that she's also on the honor roll and played saxophone in the school band too and busy she's like Lisa Simpson with athletic ability like she's got that's that's so much there's no free time at all there her lungs are very healthy oh play between the running and run forget about it yeah she will pop a balloon and two blow done boom 1988 do not hand her the ball no no she will it's gone gone what'd you do you took it all lung capacity Jesus Christ it's like the cone heads if you smoke at a joint she just takes a hit and it's all gone now she has a 20 year old brother here a stepbrother Spencer who is the son of her dad's it's her stepbrother yeah I know her dad's new wife after their him and her and her mom of course it's half on they just had yeah now this son I guess he ends up dying in 1988 in a boating accident in the middle of the desert and he's like I'm gonna die I'm gonna die in 1988 in a boating accident on the Kenai River oh boy so there's a lot of tragedy going on here okay kidding now by 1989 Mandy graduates in June yeah and then she's off to Central Washington University after that which is about four hours away from here so good distance away um she I guess at first this is the interesting part she wanted to be a commercial airline pilot at first that was her that was her first goal um and then somehow over the summer switched her path and decided to go to college instead I guess um so she she wanted to pursue a career in fitness and nutritional counseling yeah which she's probably very fit so that makes sense she does a lot of a lot of exercise feels like she's on the cutting edge of that too it feels like there's a lot of those now but back then there weren't many 89 probably not yeah now she's on the cutting edge now the town they live in is actually Clipper that is the official town but it's like there's not really a town it's just the name of an area Clippers just outside Acme and considered in that zip code area we talked about here but Clippers the actual you know town town if you want to be specific where their mailing address would be um she also has a long time I don't know how long but more than the last year say a long time boyfriend as well named Rick zender with a Z like sender but with a Z return to zender fucking Rick return to zender we call him around school now she goes to college here in the fall Thanksgiving comes around and she comes home for Thanksgiving yeah now there's a confusion of where she got a ride from for a minute because on the school bulletin board is she put up a thing saying she's looking for a ride she's looking for a ride because on the school bulletin board is she put up a thing saying she's looking for a ride for a minute because on the school bulletin board is she put up a thing saying she's looking for a ride for a ride to the you know to just east of Bellingham basically if you could do that but we know that she ends up being driven home by her boyfriend so I think her boyfriend drove four hours to pick her up picked her up and drove her home goddamn which is a goddamn long round trip and it's a sweet man as a nice guy right there uh she doesn't come home alone though she brings her roommate with her who is a japanese exchange student yeah who speaks very little english and the two of them are trying to learn each other's languages with neither so yeah she's trying to learn japanese and this japanese girl's trying to learn english and they're hanging out that's not easy no that is especially if neither of you speaks both that's going to be tough um now her name and i shit you not is yoko swear to god her name is yoko which is just hilarious because i'm sure everyone called her yoko anyway you know hey yoko i'm sorry that's what's sad just some you know yeah some fucking meathead college kids were like hey yoko and she was like yes it's either yoko or kim that's all they're calling her one of the two and that's korean for christ's sake is it there you go there you go so uh now that's what it is that's wednesday november 22nd they get a ride home with rick zender and back to acme okay now rick zender drops mandy and yoko at mandy's parents house it's mary's house her mom's house at about 2 p.m on wednesday november 22nd which means he left the house at 6 a.m to pick her up or earlier think about that because it probably took him a minute to get in the car maybe they stopped for a bite to eat he probably left the house at five o'clock in the morning shit what's four hours from you philly from me yeah nah philly's closer than that you could drive to philadelphia yeah philly's closer and back yeah still beat that man still beat him fucking that's crazy yeah four hours i mean boston's three and change for my ass like 320 or something from here so i mean it's far it's a trip it's a goddamn trip to go to but to have someone take me to boston to do shows i have to pay them a good amount to bring me back and take me uh so they show up now later that afternoon on the 22nd mandy visits her former high school to see some friends and visit the basketball team which she was big on so she wanted to talk to her and the teammates who were there still you know from when she was playing and all that kind of thing so she hangs out for the basketball's team practice and don't know how long exactly she stays but that evening and also to that thanks the day before thanksgiving in a small town is when people gather right that's like if you go even not even a small time if you go like around me like the night before thanksgiving every bar is full to capacity with people who haven't seen each other in a long time i was i came back here after i was in arizona for a few years i came back when i was like 23 and my friends wanted to go to a bar so we went to a bar we were hanging out and in came my father with a group of his friends into the same bar that's how many people's like this is weird i haven't seen him in a while either yeah it was a while i saw him at the house when i said i'm gonna go to the bar for a while and then he ended up with this other same thing so i mean it's so many people i saw a hundred people i hadn't seen in years just because that's where people are hanging out um so she hangs out there the next day thursday november 23rd 89 is thanksgiving day right so she does nothing she spends the entire day at home with the family eating food kicking back watching football doing the normal thanksgiving shit then comes friday november 24th 1989 okay day after thanksgiving she hangs out um in the morning um toward lunchtime they eat some leftovers yeah some turkey sandwich and shit like that she goes for a long walk with yoko she has a five mile jogging route that she does when she's home always no she was in high school she did it all the time does it every day mile path that is her thing yeah but two and a half miles out two and a half miles back i guess so she walked this path with yoko i guess yoko's not a runner apparently yeah yoko likes the cardio yoko likes to get some cardio and just not too intense yoko likes to keep it chill if we know what it is um she's more of a uh slow burner she's yeah she tears things apart real slow from the inside she doesn't want to be too tired she has a lot to do later she's got to go inside get nude take weird pictures and then screech into a fucking into a microphone for a while slap trash can lids together while she yells there is this chick i hung out with and you have to be hot to pull this off okay there's a chick i hung out with in high school i went over to her house one time and she put an out like a vinyl album on which is a vinyl album and she's like oh my god i'm gonna in the 90s right away strange and it was a yoko oh no album of her making weird sounds you've heard it if that is this a famous thing it was just so bad i just heard there was like screeching and shit that sounded like an animal that was being like killed in my woods that i heard a while back and i was like and i said what the fuck is what is at first i didn't realize it was an album like something she put on i thought it was like a tv i said what is this you go it's yoko oh no and i She must have been hot because I didn't leave right then. I was like, I don't want to hear this. It's avant-garde horse shit that she was putting on. It was weird. It was so wild. It was weird. But she made me listen to this whole goddamn. It wasn't like the focal point. She wasn't like, now listen to this sound right now. Focus. But it was like, we just like, I was like, this is crazy. It was distracting. I'd like to know what the conversations were between her. Because John was a genius for all intents and purposes. Yeah. And she is not. No, there is music out. I don't know any Yoko Ono music really. But there is music out that people enjoy from Yoko Ono. Is there? I don't know what it is. I didn't know that. But I've seen her songs on lists of things that people enjoy. Okay. I've never seen that. I've heard the music and was like, what? All I've ever heard is the screeching. I would never give it another chance. Yeah. I've just heard the screeching and the dying squirrel sounds that she was making for a while. That's all I've heard. That's it. If she's got a yellow submarine somewhere, I'd love to hear it. Let's break it out, sister. What do you got? Tell me about yesterday. I'd love to hear it. I'll give it a chance. I don't like the Beatles, but I'll give whatever you got a chance. How's your day's night been? Hard? Let me know about it. Is it long? Is it long? So she makes plans that evening that her and Yoko are going to go out with a couple of high school friends of hers. Okay. So they're going to go out. They're going to hang out. Now, this is a guy named Brad Gorham and his friend named Tom Bass, B-A-S-S, which is strange. She's not. See, I don't know where her relationship with her boyfriend is at this moment, because if she he drove her all the way here, dropped her off the day before, and she's not hanging out with him that. And it seems like this is when they'd be hanging out. But she's going to get out of here. So I don't know the job that or maybe they are broken up, but they're still friends. That's possible. Or they're, you know, taking a break or whatever. It is. But she's going to hang out with these two guys. And I don't know if it's a double date or just hanging out with friends or whatever. But she's like, I got this Japanese chick. You got to meet. Tell you what. Yeah. So I'm bringing our two guys. So she's got her pick. She's got her pick. Who knows? Tom Bass and Brad Gorham. Now, sometime between 2 and 3 p.m., though, this is well before they're going to have their evening activities. Mandy decides to go for a run. She leaves. She's already walked five miles. Now she's going to go run five miles. She takes the family dog, a German shepherd named Kira, with her. So she leaves the house. She's got sweatpants. She's got some running shoes on. She has a Walkman and a dog. OK, so that's what she's doing. She the mother said her Mary, her mother said she usually ran west from their house on Strand Road. They live on Strand Road, crossed Highway 9. And continued until she reached the South Fork of the Nooksack River, which is just asking to be for two immature guys and comedians. We could imagine growing up around their Nooksack. Not one person calls it. Nobody calls it that. No. Every boy calls it the Nooksack River. Every single one. Everyone. Without a doubt. Every and every adult with a. Nope. Nobody does. No. So. And then she would ran back the same route. So it's five miles round trip. Yeah. So apparently her brother Lee, who was, I believe, 13 at this time, was playing with a friend at a neighboring house. And the friend's name is David Cracker. David Cracker. David Craker. See, I will go with Craker. There's no C in the middle there. C-R-A-K-E-R. We'll go with Craker. But Cracker would be much funnier. It's probably Cracker. We'll go with Cracker. So Lee and his friend David Cracker both saw Mandy running east on Strand Road toward her home at about three o'clock. Okay. So that would be coming back. Lee, the brother, was visiting his neighbor at the time, and he said it looked like his sister was on her way back from the river. That was around three. So that makes sense. They said, too, this is within minutes of the house, especially at a running pace. Yeah. She's real close to the house. She's almost there. Yeah. Now, a little later, an hour or so later, Lee comes home, the little brother. Yeah. and Mandy and Kira, neither one are there, the dog or his sister. Oh, the dog or her, yeah. So he's like, that's weird. Where's Mandy and Kira? I just saw her running by. She should have been home a long time ago. And Mary said, that's weird. Yeah, she's taking a long, much longer than she usually takes to run. And you saw her back then. She should have been definitely home by now. So Mary starts calling neighbors and starts calling any of Mandy's friends that she has a phone number for saying, hey, have you seen Mandy? Because who knows? She's running. Maybe one of her old friends pulled by. And she said, hey, we're going to go to Dairy Queen. You want to hop in? And she said, sure. Let's go get a blizzard. Let's go down to the general store and get whatever confection they whip up down there and figure it out. Whatever. So you start calling around. Now, Lee and Mary then go out to look for her on the road, take the car and take it all around, and they can't find her. And this is not a big area. So there's not a whole lot of places to look in terms of just driving around. So they return home, and they sit there, and they're like, what the fuck? What happened? This is so weird. And then pretty soon after they get back, they hear scratching at the door, and it's Kira alone. Kira came home. The dog's alone, though. Dog's by itself. And they said when they let it in, the dog was cowering, had its tail tucked between its legs. Scared, yeah. And had river silt covering part of her hindquarters. So she got in the water at some point. She got somewhere around the water, yeah, and was scared, obviously. Now, Mary at this point was freaked out. Sure. Why is the dog here without the daughter? Yeah. She said, I was panicked. She was so consistent in what she always did, there was no reason for her not to come back. Like, this made no sense. It's not like her. Then, now they, some of the two guys she's supposed to hang out with tonight, and her boyfriend, Zender, they hear, it's such a small area, they've already heard about her disappearance by, before 5.30. Oh. So they've already heard about this, and they come over to help look for her. So this is Tom Bass, Rob Gorham, and Zender. They all come over to help look for her as well. So they already have a search party going, which is good. About 5.30 p.m., Mary calls the police. And the Whatcom County search and rescue is sent, okay? She calls the cops and says, my daughter's been missing for maybe two hours. They send Alan Pratt a human tracker. Really? Which is, that's pretty good service for your tax dollars, I gotta say. Hey, my daughter went for a run. She hasn't come back yet. No problem. We'll send out a human bloodhound. You got this. We got a human tracker. We'll just send him. Not a deputy. Not somebody to take your statement. We'll send some. He samples dirt and knows his way. There's some guy who picks dirt up, throws it up into the air, sees how it falls and goes, she went that way. Yeah. Checks the consistency. Of like a branch. Yeah. Gets it in his molars. Yeah, really good. Runs it in a little bit. Yeah. Yep. That's great service. How do they have one of those in their budget? Most American cities don't have a human tracker. I know people can't get their garbage picked up on time. These people you call up. My daughter, she might have stopped. She's with her friends, or she could be missing. We'll send the tracker. Don't worry about it. They show up on Wednesday, but it's very inconsistent of what time. Oh, you never know. You never know. It will be before I want to wake up in the morning. I'll tell you that fucking much. Probably. It will be before six. About five minutes before my alarm goes off. I'll tell you, it's always before six. Just rob me of that. Hey, why don't we send the mail around with the garbage guy? Yeah. He can drive. Rather than him coming at 530. At night, he can come at 545 in the morning, and we'll get it all worked out. I'm on the end route of my FedEx and UPS and mail, and the beginning route of the trash truck. Yeah. So if it says, we'll arrive sometime today before 9 p.m. or whatever the fuck, I'm guaranteed to get it right around 7 p.m. Right around when I sit down to eat, the doorbell rings. That's perfect. And they always want a signature. Always. Always FedEx. FedEx are the ones that always want a fucking signature. It's like, will you just leave it here? I got a doorbell. Yeah. I know whether or not you made it. Oh, my God. If we've got a ring doorbell, if you've got a camera of some sort. Yeah. That should be enough to not require the signature anymore. They've got cameras on their fucking chest, for Christ's sake. Yeah. One nice thing. My FedEx guy in the beginning, I was like, just sign for everything. Sign for everything. I don't give a fuck. I don't care. Just don't call me. Basically. Every time you ring, all the dogs bark. And now it's a 20-minute fucking procedure now because you rang the doorbell. Okay. And I miss you twice. And now I have to leave my house to go get this shit that's nowhere near my house. Yeah. Because you knocked, the dogs barked, and I wasn't answering shit because I was trying to keep them quiet. So now this guy, the human tracker's name is Alan Pratt. And he finds a disturbed spot on the shoulder of the road. This is on the corner. This is on the corner close to Mandy's house. We're talking feet from her house. It's right there. A disturbed spot. A disturbed spot. There were several footfalls, possibly from two people, where it looked like someone had been walking or wrestling around or something, quote unquote. There was a scuffle. There's a scuffle here. Feet, this isn't just, you know, step, step, step. This is the side of the shoe. Yeah, some shuffling, some, you know, weird off steps. Sure. This guy's a good guy. He's a good human tracker, if that's what he found. It's not bad. I don't know if I'd, I don't think I'd find that. Hey, the dirt looks weird here. Well, what? There's no footprints that I can decipher here. We're going to keep moving. Keep going. Yeah, totally. The nearby grass also showed signs of disturbance. And there was river silt in a nearby ditch close to this area that's similar to that found on the dog. On the dog. So the dog was probably in this area, too. Yeah. What they don't find here. What they don't find here is Mandy or any sign of her other than some silt and some disturbed dirt. So this now becomes no one knows where she is. Literally all of her friends are accounted for. They all say they haven't heard from her. This is now freaking everybody out. So what happens is one of those small town things, everybody looks for her. The whole town looks for her at the same time. The whole town's in a walk. Everybody. Yeah. It's crazy. Neighbors, they're walking. They're in trucks. They have volunteers. They said that one guy said he searched for days and was all around everywhere. And deputies and reinforcements from other counties came in. This is a big deal here. And so there's helicopters. There's horsemen working the brush and riverbanks. I mean, this is they are looking for this chick, man. Saturday, November 21st. The next day, still haven't found her. Oh, this is when deputies come from other counties to help as well. They run helicopters up and down the river corridor here. They do all of that. They mount searches to push into the brushy areas to where where, you know, vehicles can't go and stuff like that. They it's huge, though. Everybody comes. There's a. They talk about all of these searches and they said that, you know, the one guy said he's been on all these searches and he'd never seen he's never seen people so enthusiastically searching. Basically, farmers would do their own walk, their entire properties, all their acreage and loggers would check on spur roads. I mean, everybody was involved in it. Teenagers that knew her did grid patterns, searching for looking for on the roads and fields everywhere. I mean, they are looking for her and not finding her. Sunday, November 26th, 1989, the surf, the search now expands from because they thought she must have been pretty close to the house based on that disturbed dirt. Every day they expand out a little more. OK. And on Sunday, it expands downriver and up into the timber. So up into more rugged areas, into the woods, and they find nothing up there. Nothing. Nothing. Monday comes around November 26th. Now, this is crazy now. About noon here, this is a now they've, by the way, from this time, they have organized eighty three hundred dollars of a reward fund that they've patched together that they have here. And they're driving, driving, walking, flying, doing everything. There are searchers working the South Fork of the Nooksack River by boat. OK. They come across what they believe. Is a body. And it turns out it is. This is about three and a half miles from Mandy's house. I don't know if that's as the crow flies or whatever, but it's three and a half miles face down in shallow water in the water, in the water face down. And remember, this is November in a Washington River. So it's cold. That's cold water. You know, so there's. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Preserves everything. There's a detective named Ron Peterson. Who this guy had just gone to get FBI training in D. DNA evidence recovery. DNA is brand fucking new at this point. What year is this? 89. Yeah. Brand new. Now, we'll talk about, like, how it came about, but 89 is when they're, like, even small-town police forces know it exists now. You know, it was being used for a couple years, but, like, you know, unless you were really into some shit, you wouldn't have known about it. If you're just a small-town police guy, you might not have heard about it. But he just came back from DNA evidence recovery courses. From training in this. So he's thinking about if there might be DNA on this body and let's preserve it. Nobody touch it. Yes. So he personally manages the recovery because he doesn't want to lose anything. He's really agonizing on how to move her without disturbing any evidence. And really is extra caught in a way that in 1989 most people were not with bodies. They were not even thinking about DNA. Just happened to be he just got back from a course. Otherwise, they just pulled her out of the water, thrown her in a bag, figured it out from there. So she is face down and naked except for no clothing, except for socks and her running shoes. That's all she's wearing. Okay. And it's a slow-moving, shallow area of the Nooksack River here. Socks and shoes only, huh? Socks and shoes only. Naked otherwise. Which is interesting. Now, there's no evidence of a struggle at the site. But they don't know if this is where she was placed or she ended up going with the river and ended up here. So they don't know. They suspect that the body may have floated downstream. They find about 10 miles south of the home of where she lives, they found a pair of sweatpants that may have belonged to her. They were tested at the crime laboratory and they said that they were. They weren't really able to find anything out about it here. There's another pair of sweatpants recovered near an unpaved road where garbage is sometimes dumped. And that was all inconclusive as well. All right. The pair that was found in the garbage dump were the same color sweatpants that she wore. I think it was like a teal blue, which is pretty specific. You know what I mean? Yeah. But they said the bloodhounds failed to identify the garment as hers, which it's been. Outside, that makes sense. But her mother also couldn't be certain if those were Mandy's. So we're not sure if those were hers or not. But it seems like a pretty big coincidence. It's probably hers. Yeah. And bloodhounds, they're not known for being that particular, are they? No. No. And also, too, after a couple days outside, scents go. You don't know if there's any scent there. Who knows? And if they were in the river first, too, that would have helped knock some of the scent off. So who knows? But that's. That's a big deal, though. They also found two pillowcases in that area where they found the sweatpants. Yeah. These pillowcases contained two types of hair. On one of the cases, a long blonde strand was found, similar to Mandy's. She's very blonde. And all of that. Now, an expert human trafficker brought in again. Tracker. Tracker. Not tracker. Expert human trafficker. He'll bring anything in from Central America that you could put in. You could possibly want. He's incredible. He's got it. What do you want? He's got it. He'll bring it in. Yeah. It's got a menu, for Christ's sake. It's a menu. What do you want? Little boys? Eight? Seven? What are you looking at? Third grade? Fourth grade? So he is brought in, and tire tracks are found near the pillowcases, but no treads are visible, so they can't get a read on what kind of tire or car this may have been from. What would the significance of a pillowcase be? Oh, I guess you could put it over someone's. His head in a kidnapping? Yeah. Yes. You could do that, or whatever it is. They found a long blonde strand of hair that is consistent, so they wanted to at least see if it maybe is part of the whole thing, because we don't know what people's weird, how they murder people, you know? I suppose you could strangle somebody with one of those, too, right? You could twist it up, strangle them. Sure. Yeah. It's probably all purpose there. So you could put it over their head and beat them. Yeah. You could do all sorts of weird shit. Put some soap in it and beat them to death with it? That, too. Yeah. You could act like they pissed you off. That's often basic training. So the FBI was helping the investigation, and the officials planned to enlist the Green River Task Force in this. Oh. That is the Seattle-based team of detectives that were working on the Green River killer. Actively hunting Gary Ridgway at the time. Exactly. They don't even know that it's Gary Ridgway. No. The task was formed to pursue, you know, Ridgway, but there was no indication that this killing had any connection. There was no connection to any of the other unsolved killings in the Seattle area. Okay. Because that's what they originally thought. We'll bring that in, see if it's connected to your guy. Yeah. It's a girl in a river. In a rural area. All bets are off at this point. Gary Ridgway hid several women in rivers. Yeah. So, I mean, that happened a lot. She doesn't even know how many. That's insane. That's wild. He didn't even fucking keep a tally. No. Even in his head. That's crazy. As they disintegrated, they disintegrated from his memory, because there was so many Like, you know how many people you've had sex with. Yeah. Which is a way less. Way smaller number than hundreds. And less significant activity than murdering someone. Yeah. That's way less significant than murder. Fucking you is way less than killing you. It just is. And voluntarily, whatever the fuck you want to call it. But this is, you know. That's unbelievable. To not remember the murders, that is insane. You did a lot. And he had sex with all of them, too. Oh, yeah. He raped everyone. That's a significant moment of my penis is out that. Yeah. I'm never forgetting that. No. No. Fuck no. He did. Ugh. He's gross. He can't remember. And his dick was out. It's unbelievable. We don't know if he can't remember or doesn't want to. Shoes is not to say, because there's shame. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. Now, we said she was naked except for running shoes. Her body was covered in scratches. Real superficial scratches. Bushes? Her weapon. And legs, buttocks, arm. That's where it was. It was real superficial. Running. Running. Tree branches. That sort of thing. There were more scratches on the front sides of her legs than on the back sides of them also, which would be. Yep. Yeah. Stick comes off. It gets a little bit of the back just as it carries around the curvier leg, but not there. Many of the scratches were parallel, indicating she was in motion when she was scratched as well. And overall, condition of the scratches suggests that she was in motion. Now, the medical examiner figured out that these scratches were consistent with someone running through the brush, such as especially blackberry bushes, which are found along the riverbank of the Nooksack River. And also, someone who doesn't have their sweatpants on. Right. So, what does this tell you? Something happened. They got away, broke free, and hauled ass to get away from it. Yeah. And didn't get away from it. And got caught. Got caught. And this is someone who runs track, cross-country, basketball. She's fast. She's fucking. She's an athlete. I mean. So, it's got to be someone. It's not somebody who's 65 years old. No. You can rule that out. It's not someone who weighs 400 pounds. There's a lot of people you can rule out just in the fact that they were able to run this girl down. Catch an athlete. Yeah. Yep. So, any evidence nearby at all? Well, they found, like we said, foot. They found, oh, of the homestead. That's right. There's this place called the homestead. Yeah. Which is nearby. It's nearby here. And it's just a field where the teenagers hang out and drink wine coolers and finger each other. That's all it is. So, yeah. Just Bartles and James bottles everywhere. You know. In 89? Fuck. 89. That's all that was there. Yeah. This is pre-Zima. Were the Jack Daniels things available yet? No. I don't think so. Those little guys? Maybe. Maybe. I'm not sure. But I just. Yeah. I bet they were. Wine coolers were a big deal back then. Fucking A. And Zimas. Especially for the kids. I don't think Zima was even out yet. I'll bet you're right. In 89? Zima was more like 93. Like, hey, this is the 90s. Was it that far? Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think. That's when I remember seeing it. And I worked at a beer store then. So, I remember when it was a big deal. Time escapes. Who knows? I'm so. I want to say 93. But it could be 84 for all I know. Who the fuck knows? I just remember those Jack Daniels things because wine coolers were such a hit. Everybody started making something mixed in a bottle with that Tennessee honey or some shit like that. Yeah. Yeah. Something sweet that the younger. Girls will drink. Some very shit that. Yeah. Is going to get some fucking teenager laid. So, investigators in this homestead area found footfalls and tire tracks in the field. But they're unable to determine if they're related to the crime because there's always teenagers there hanging out. So, it might just be people, kids hanging out. They found no other tracks or signs of disturbance near the riverbank where they found the body. Okay. So, they're relatively sure that's not exactly where she went into the case. Right. So, they're probably somewhere else. So, they find never where an actual definitive crime scene is. They do not have that. We don't know what happened. We think she was abducted here because she was seen running home and this is near her house. This is where her body was and that's pretty much all they have. That's all we know. They don't know what in between happened, which is a lot. So, they do the autopsy. This is a weird comment that this guy makes. Who? Dr. Goldfogel. That's the corner. That's the guy doing the autopsy, medical examiner. He said, quote, she has the least amount of absolute least amount of deterioration that I see in essentially anybody. She has so little that it was very traumatic, in particular for one of the doctors at the autopsy, because we'd look at Mandy and say, you know, if we could shake her and warm her up, it looks like she'd just wake up. Because she was face down in ice cold fucking water. So she's perfect. She's preserved. So it looks like just a frozen in time, perfectly preserved teenage girl. He said she doesn't even look dead. She's been so preserved and in the ice. So it looks like you could just wake her up, Mandy, and she'd pop up. It's almost bad, right? He said it was disturbing, actually. You'd rather see at least they're dead, they're dead. But this looked like a live girl who just was like, why aren't you waking up? Like it was creepy, real creepy. No. Now, the autopsy indicates no defensive injuries to her hands, which is a big deal. No foreign DNA under her fingernails. So she did not fight at all. Or if she did, maybe she scratched and that got taken away in the river water. But I doubt it because we find other stuff here. No evidence of strangulation or evidence suggesting she'd been bound in any way. So she wasn't tied up. So she probably, in my estimation, that would be somebody, well, either that or somebody talked her into everything is fine, everything is fine. You know what I'm saying? Like, oh, no, no, no. If you were cool, I'm not going to hurt you. And she was trying to play along. That means there's. Either that or one of the two. Or there's imminent danger of there's a weapon trained on her. Exactly. Yeah. That too. Have to be. You have to be. Convinced her. Guided to. Yeah. To not fight in some way, shape or form. No evidence of strangulation or, like I said, or evidence of binding. There was blunt force trauma injury, though, to her right forehead. And this is what we're thinking. Maybe it was a surprise attack hitting the forehead. And that's why she didn't fight back. They said the blow to her head would have caused a significant concussion. But he can't say definitively whether she would have lost consciousness or not. Because that's, you know, kind of a roll of the dice there. Front of the head. Don't necessarily go out. It's usually bottom of the face and the back of the head. Those are the two that really knock you out. Well, we don't know. We have no idea. A significant concussion. Who knows? Yeah. He opined that the injury happened immediately before or after her death. Because he said, quote, by the time her heart stops and the blood pools, these things don't occur. Meaning bruising or any of that. How did she die? Well, he concludes that the cause of death is consistent with, can't be positive, but consistent with, or not inconsistent with, is the way he puts it, fresh water drowning. So maybe she's hit and she's unconscious and falls in the water and then breathes water in. I forget the word for that. Aspirate. Aspirates water. Or is that? Is that out? Inspirate? Is that out? That might be out. I'm not sure. Is that inspirate? Inspirate. I'm inspirating right now. No, there's aspirate and there's another one. But I don't know which one's in or out. It doesn't fucking matter. But the point is she breathed water in, possibly while unconscious. Yeah. Fresh water. Because she didn't fight back. Not inconsistent with drowning. No. But it gets worse as we go. Okay. Okay. Based on her stomach contents, they determined that she died within three to four hours of her last meal, which would put it at about four o'clock, four and change, because they ate at around noon-ish, 1130. Right. So three-ish, four-ish, that's around when that would have been. They said that she ate between 1130 and 1230 a.m. So all that. So we don't think that she was kept somewhere for a day first and then did this. So this suggested that she died between 330 and 430 p.m. on Friday afternoon. And during the autopsy, they find semen inside of her. And then that's the motivation here. That's, yeah. You go, why would somebody do this? This is why. Because they wanted to rape this poor girl. Based on the sperm count, they concluded that the intercourse had occurred no more than 12 hours before the death. So 12 hours or. Sooner. Could have happened. Based on how. Because they die off, right. Could happen. Could have been 10 minutes, but no longer than 12 hours. Okay. Before her death. So this evidence leads the police to believe that someone kidnapped and raped her. That's what happened here. And bashed her over the head, raped her, whatever. And the bash over the head might have been because she ran away. We don't know. We're not positive. And she was obviously fleeing her captor at some point. Right. So the doctor preserves. Preserves the samples he collects, which was important to do because not everybody did that in 1989, and sent them to the FBI and the Washington State Patrol crime lab for analysis. Yeah. So the crime lab develops a little bit later a DNA profile from the sperm. Wow. There's no. At this point in time, there's no CODIS or there's no database to put the sperm, to put the DNA into. There's nothing to compare it against. Yeah. Yeah. But if you have somebody, you can compare. If I say, I think Jimmy did it, and I swab you, and then I can compare them side to side, but that's it. I can't put it into a system and hope it gets a hit. So that's what they do. Now, the area here, Strand Road runs off Highway 9 near Acme, and dead ends, Strand Road is where they live, where she lives, and her and her mom and her sisters and brother, dead ending toward the South Fork of the Nooksack River. So there's a big dead end. There's one way out of this, of Strand Road. You drive down, there's no. It's a dead end, so you got to go this way, which matters because traffic on Strand Road is nobody driving. The only people that drive down this fucking road are people who live there. It's a dead end in the middle of nowhere. And the good news about that is that if you go down it, people have a chance to see you twice. I mean, that's bad news for somebody, but good news for those trying to solve it. Exactly. So nobody passes through here, basically. This is not an accident. So if you're on there, you live there, you're visiting someone. Strangers' cars get noticed. Whose car is that, people will say when they look out the window. That's, yeah. Who's this joker? People say that all day long. Yeah, who's this joker out there driving down my street? So this is what they think happened, okay? This is built from the evidence, from the disturbed roadside autopsy, the geography, and this detective who walked the route a whole shitload. He kept walking this route to figure out what could have happened. Okay. So basically. He talks about going down the road, and Mandy leaves the house early to mid-afternoon, dog alongside her, runs her standard loop toward the river. The final sightings of her, because there's her brother and a couple other neighbors, cluster around 3 p.m. close to home. One of the witnesses saw a man in a pickup truck, as we'll talk about people who were seen around here, near the bend, who watched her run past, heading in the direction of her house, roughly an eighth of a mile away from her house. Do you know how fucking close that is? That's so close. You can see your fucking house. She was probably. An eighth of a mile is 500 feet, 600 feet? Yelling for your mother. That's how close. Like, if you were being kidnapped. Mom, come out of the house, I'm being kidnapped. It's that close. You can hear from there, for sure. You're absolutely, your guard is 100% down by the time you get to that point. So down, yeah. So down. And I don't know how much her guard would have been up anyway, running in this rural area. She's done a million times. So, that's what she said. So, now the detectives point out that there's a wooded stretch ahead, and he believes that's where she was taken, in the wooden stretch, close by. So, they said that they don't think that whoever got her chased her down on foot. They had to have talked her over, or had a vehicle. They don't think anybody got out and started chasing her, because she probably had a vehicle and probably would have outran them. Also, she has a dog. A German Shepherd, for Christ's sake. Yeah. There's only a few dogs that, on site, scare the living shit out of you. That's what I mean. I don't understand. That's what makes me think it's got to be somebody that is familiar with this dog. Familiar with her and that dog. Because otherwise, yeah, a dog like that, you go, I don't know, I don't think it's going to bite me. It's just obviously. And also, what's the dog not biting this person for? Right. That's the other thing. Right. Jesus Christ. My dogs are very sweet, but they will bite the shit out of you if you're aggressive. When Sarah, she'll tickle me sometimes, joking around, and I'll be like, oh, come on, come on, come on, come on. Yeah. Frankie will run over. Yeah. And cover you. And push her off and get away from him. And I'm like, you know. And if you were a stranger, she'd probably bite you. But it's Sarah, so she's just like, come on, let's be nice to him. And I'm laughing, trying to tell her to go away, and she's tickling me. It's a mess. Vaughn bites my legs whenever I raise my voice to my children. And if they talk back to me? And I threw my teeth, say, don't you fucking dare. My dog loses. and tells me don't you fucking dare don't like that i don't like that at all so they said a vehicle and or control game by a weapon so they think maybe a gun pointed at her that'll do it yeah would talk her into something and get in my car type of thing hop in um also they say that it's that would be fast and quiet point a gun in her she gets in the thing it's compliant um you know whatever they said that could have taken 15 minutes to 15 seconds basically and uh they believe that the they think that they probably he probably kicked the dog or did something with the dog to send it into the ditch to get the silt on him yeah and he was scared explain the leg yeah tail between the leg uh legs and so they think this could have been less than a minute the whole process yeah of taking her then they'd have to drive her somewhere um you know near the river they think um that's where also they think there's got to be local knowledge here possibly to know where to go around here knowing where to take her you know because this is a stressful situation you got a teenage girl in your car that you've kidnapped and you're going to rape and kill it's a lot going on there so you got to kind of know what you're doing and where you're going here um so they said then um at some point she got away that's the thing she had to scratches on her arms and legs are all lined the riverbank so it must have been her getting away from the riverbank um when they saw that one of the investigators said he just said oh my god she was running away she got away at one point somewhere in those minutes where she's obviously has no clothes on when she's running away um she's running and she was one of the fastest kids on the track team too she ran and they said where was she running toward because it's kind of the middle of nowhere so they were trying to figure out where she which direction she might have ran from the river um but they believed that either way she got chased down um and caught her and struck her on the head probably then because if she got struck on the head she wouldn't have probably been able to run away right so they're thinking that that that has to be what happened is he chased her down now in the woods that could also be she might have tripped over a stick you don't have to be faster than someone in the woods to catch them if you've ever seen any chase in any movie through the woods they always trip on a stick or a rock or and they fall down and then the murderer catches that's the thing about the woods it's very uneven ground yeah and watch evil dead too it's it's you go through the woods yeah just constantly falling you hit your head you almost drown in a puddle that's what goes on everyone knows that yeah so they think possibly she fell down hit her head on her own no no they don't think that they think she probably was either was chased down or fell down and then she fell down and then she fell down and then the person was probably pissed off at her for running away whacked her in the fucking head dragged her back to wherever they were going wherever they were so then at the river they think that she's nearly unconscious she's placed in the river to make sure she's she drowns and you know head trauma by the way she's a strong swimmer too so if she was conscious she would have swam it all it says it there's an abduction an assault an escape a capture and a drowning they said it's got to be what it is so it seems seems pretty and then you think back to the type how would you get a you know the the event like obviously you don't want to think about it unfolding but how it would unfold would be likely the horrible event occurring obviously and then in the midst of whatever he was doing putting a pants back on or a belt or whatever yes it could have been on the ground but it's definitely not somewhere that's closed you know what i mean closed off this was in a vehicle or out in the woods has to be and also he she could have she could have thought too because you never know what people are thinking she could have thought as the situation was going i can get out of this and i can talk my way out of this and once he started taking her clothes off she might have said oh this is beyond my control yeah now i gotta run yeah you know what i mean now i gotta run and if he shoots me in the back as i'm running let him fucking shoot me in the back as i'm running good luck it's hard to shoot a moving target it's running away from you so do they think the assault occurred before or after she ran do they they're not they that they can't tell there's no way to tell that unfortunately those are all just theories basically um so they're hoping for they have no ideas at this point uh detectives said their best leads may come from passers-by who may have noticed something suspicious along the highway um you know so it's uh they said the road has about four times the traffic is normal because of a washed out bridge and the opening of ski season at mount baker all right they said we're hoping somebody saw something and will give us a call they also pulled the parole records of several sexual predators or other sexually related criminals who are known to be in the area talk to them first i mean you got a rape going on talk to a rapist you know what i mean so they're looking for a couple different trucks you know problem here is everybody here has a pickup truck you're in the middle of nowhere in a place that snows a yeah so it's difficult they were seeking a dark colored pickup truck who knows how many of those there are um they never found the one they were looking for and they also said they were looking for a second vehicle and an individual oh they said they were looking for a late 1970s full style a full-size station wagon light brown in color possibly a chrysler or a chevy that was seen being driven by a man 30 to 35 years old with a car that was seen being driven by a man 30 to 35 years old with a car that was seen being driven by a man 30 to 35 years old with a car that was seen face heavy build dark hair large mustache and three-day growth of beard around the same time the woman vanished oh the poor bastard so he's like a carnival strongman driving a family truckster basically is what you're looking for poor bastard what a weird fucking thing there okay he had a roadie in his lap for sure that man drinks heavy a lot yeah so as the word spreads here of this people fucking freak out i mean yeah that's a freak out it's a nightmare this is a big deal residents gathered at the supermarket to talk about it literally just everywhere um they said one lady here a lady she's a young lady young girl 17 years old said i didn't think that kind of thing happened around here baby that's well i mean you better think again another uh the woman who works at acme foods at the grocery store said you think of those things happening in seattle but not here oh that's right crime-ridden seattle that crime-ridden seattle well i mean after ted bundy and you know green river green river was going on right then too yeah this is the type of thing that happened in seattle a lot of bad shit happened in seattle uh one of her friends named michelle who lived a few doors down in the dorm from her said i was just watching the news and couldn't believe it was anyone you so close it just gives you a feeling like gosh we're seeing each other in the bathroom one day you see them one day you don't okay that's right i'll find all my friends in the bathroom um but that's a gal that's a gal yeah you know that's a chick we don't have conversations i mean i see the i see the guy in the can all the time it's weird right now we don't talk in the but women hang out and talk about shit in the bathroom it's it's completely against male etiquette to even make eye contact in a bathroom never mind fuck yeah speak to a person i'm the most vulnerable this thing is out this is no the only eye contact you make is if they have one of those towel cologne guys you like make you give him eye contact and that's about it how you doing you rub your pockets and go i don't have anything and then you leave yeah because i'm not taking your two squirts of cologne anyway leave me alone i'm not giving you five dollars for handing me a napkin i'm leaving no i'm going now so at her college here uh this is at central washington university they found the note on the bulletin board yeah with her seeking a ride to the bellingham area for thanksgiving so it's from mandy so that's what they find um the basketball team at her high school ends up playing in honor of her basically uh this is the day she's found they have a game and so they were going to cancel the game because she was just there the night before and you know a couple days before it's a little freaky but instead they go out and beat some other school hell yeah take that it was the season opener too oh one yeah the coach said i'm pretty proud of the way we we handled it the way they take care of each other and the way they care for mandy it was a pretty emotional day for everybody and uh one of the parents said uh for the kids we felt maybe it was better if they went ahead and did something i think the kids handled it well better than for them to just do that than to just sit around basically which yeah i agree with that mandy's mandy's living now thank you guys yeah well and that worked hey you did it the coach said if the kids had left it up to me i don't think i would have played but i let it left it up to them and they all wanted to play i think it turned out to be the best thing we could do now reactions also mandy's mom says all these terrible things all you can think is it doesn't happen to you it doesn't happen on strand road and it did that's why she moved here because she said this looks like the safest place in the world great perfect um she said people here aren't even careful about locking their doors they don't care um there's a memorial funeral set for her as well um big deal they're gonna have a eulogy by her basketball coach uh jim freeman a performance of mandy's song written especially for the service by two students okay they wrote a song called mandy's song interesting and uh yeah i that's touching and it's very sweet it was a fucking horrible song and we all know mary manilow song that we already have you already have a mandy song that's what i mean there's so many songs called mandy yeah or yeah yeah you could just replace it for brandy and do mandy such a fun you could do that you could do there's so much to do with mandy really it's touching and it's sweet but i'm sure it's a very bad song yeah i'm sure the song was terrible written by two teenagers on the fly under pressure to be performed publicly couldn't have been good with grief in their heart it's awful i promise yeah you could have told the rolling stones write a song now that needs to be written by mandy's song what the fuck are you talking about it would be shit what do you think two teenagers are going to do but nicer than to try um the church is accepting donations to a mandy stavik personal expenses fund to help disfray the cost of the funeral um another is the mandy stavik reward fund which is up to thirteen thousand six hundred forty three dollars now that's great um you could make donations all over last week it took them fucking six years to get to 13 remember that they couldn't do it they couldn't fucking do it uh december 3rd 89 is the funeral more than nine or the memorial service more than 900 people attend the memorial at mount baker high wow there's 220 people in this town yeah this town grew by four times 900 people show up so i mean that's a lot think about college friends came you know that's a lot uh december 6th they bury her ashes at the saint joseph mission cemetery that's very sad um yeah they said at the funeral at the burial it was a lot more low-key two dozen friends and family members had a small green plot and they they grave was dug and covered with evergreen boughs by leo cinctowitz a nearby neighbor who had become an adopted grandma since mandy had moved a grandpa since mandy had moved here from alaska so he grew evergreen bows and bows and put them there so i guess that's trees yes or what's a the bow is like branches i guess i don't know i guess who knows it's decorative it's decorative and it looks very nice and it's also very northwestern too to have tree stuff on there um now they also talk about this county has had a troubled disappearance record lately uh-oh they said this is not the only instance of citizens vanishing in the area here are some mysterious disappearances from the last couple years uh one of them is the one that's been in the area for the last couple of years one was july twenty-six eighty-nine of diane leslie reeves twenty-three who left her home in ferndale headed towards seattle her car an eighty-three subaru was found in september in what authorities describe as a wilderness area on a forest service road fourteen miles east of granite falls in snohomish county two months later two months later some of this woman's personal belongings were found at the base of a tree nearby but they never found any other tree in the area they were found at the base of a tree nearby but they never found any other tree trace of her despite repeated air and ground searches i didn't look it up but i don't know if they ever did find her not sure that they didn't find her as of six months after she disappeared yeah uh disappearance and murders in november eighty-seven of a canadian couple jay cook and his girlfriend tanya van wow coilenborg um the pair were on a business trip from victoria british columbia to seattle when they disappeared along with cook 77 ford van which also disappeared um van coilenberg's partially clothed body was found in a ditch near alger she'd been shot in the head and cook was found strangled the month the following month near monroe his van and some of her belongings and identification were later found in bellingham they never caught who did that holy at the time um also the partially clad body of bellingham resident rita p de songe 40 she was 40 of bellingham was found in august of eighty-seven of a canadian couple jay cook and his girlfriend tanya van wow coilenberg's partially clothed body was found in november eighty-seven floating um in some water on the lumi reservation or lummi reservation she had attended a large beach party across from portage island no one's ever charged in that um then also 1987 a bellingham residence a resident who was last seen on a date with convicted killer darren lee darren d o'neill o'neill was a drifter with a lengthy criminal record who was convicted in april of 89 uh of stealing uh of stealing uh of stealing uh of stealing uh of stealing this missing woman's car which was later found a week and later in eugene with his fingerprints inside he was sentenced to five months in jail for the theft he was also convicted of in january of the slaying of robert uh robin smith who was 21 years old of des moines iowa and was serving 27 years nine months in prison for the murder i feel like he probably killed the girl for the car right seems like it police say o'neill is a suspect in the disappearance and presumed death well if he took her car he probably killed her if he's a murderer also and she went on a date with the guy yeah now this is all these are all not in acme though right these are like in the county surrounding area but not in your small town so it's different now the investigation first ends up under sheriff uh don mount um that's the first guy uh hundreds of tips came in sure hundreds of tips um the problem is in 1989 like i said they don't have a database to enter dna into so you'd have to get everybody in there get their code get their thing compare it next to each other to match what you got which is tough um that makes it a lot harder yeah it's nice because it tells you whether you're right or not but you can't just you can't just throw it into ancestry.com and say well there we go and then go pick the guy up at his house let this show me who did this yeah that's all i'll go pick him up tomorrow i'm sure he's at his house it's like that's that's crazy um so the theories here the one everybody really wants to believe is it was a drifter that's what they all want to believe some they want that yes because that means drifters drift and that means he's gone now the drifter means he stopped by killed somebody then probably got as far the fuck away from here as possible because he just killed somebody that's what drifters do so your drifter is the best case scenario because it's a thing that you can control it's not there if it's a local now you're now you're living amongst a murderer that's the thing that now it's a horror movie yeah now it's a horror movie so that's what's crazy but the drifter means fucking anywhere any place is in so much trouble that's stranger danger you expect that though yeah that's normal danger you know the drifter they said that that they think they someone moved on they basically the way the one guy put it the detective a stranger passes through the unthinkable and moves on and the valley remains innocent because nobody here did it it's just some outside person came in and killed someone it's a horrible tragedy but the other one is the neighbor that's a guy who you got to worry about every day now the other one so it's a maybe the police chief exactly in our stories who the fuck knows so they said now people they ran out of deadbolts at the general store and deadbolts are the least your worries i mean granted that's yeah it's a good way to deter somebody from coming through the front door but makes you feel a little better that's a little better but that guy that just did that he'll come through your fucking window you gotta come out sometime he didn't get him to get you in your house he waited till someone came outside and got him so your deadbolt wouldn't help uh people stopped leaving their keys in their cars people used to leave their keys in the ignition in the driveway here because nobody's gonna steal their car imagine that um parents are now watching their kids outdoors it's a pretty rural area the kids go run around and play not anymore now they're all watching them um and everybody started looking at wondering if they're a murderer right like insidiously like ate this town alive like it's like a one of those murder mystery stories where everyone's in the house and like well maybe he did it well you have the motivation and they all go back and forth with each other's out thank you exactly all knives out exactly so uh the thing that uh they figured out fast is this is it seems local it's a dead-end road victim on a predictable schedule schedule um a semi-hidden stretch of the river strangers don't even know stranded road is there so right you want it to be the drifter but none of the facts point that way at all they don't and so there's so much fear going on they are actually here's a headline in the newspaper group walks against fear in memory of mandy stavik they have big walks against fear because people don't want to go outside they're so terrified um they said the friends family and neighbors who gathered saturday at the home of standing together against the fear that has settled in this quiet stretch of rural whatcom county almost 40 people came together on the calm winter afternoon to hold hands talk and walk the stretch of strand road where mandy was last seen oh man that is brutal uh one of them said my belief is love is stronger than fear and that we have a choice not to live our lives in fear okay well yeah sure why not yeah don't live your lives in fear then there's shirts uh at the mall that you can buy that say it right on the street you can buy it at the mall you can buy it at the mall you - No, that's right. Well, in 1996, you could have bought bought those shirts maybe in 89 89 right maybe they could be in 89 i was just thinking now i don't know if they exist now i'm sure they do there seems like a group of douchebags so i could definitely see wearing no fear shirts i forget what company bought no fear it's selling again i bet it is the the work it's whoever bought it is the least creative people on the planet they didn't even come up with a dumb slogan they i will buy a defunct slogan from someone the new the new shirts are fucking bad i bet the old shirts are bad i don't know how the new ones could be better remember they had eyes and shit though they i think they've got the eyes on them now but like the the little sayings on them are it's stupid it looks like shit i am proud to say i've never owned a no fear shirt not once never never fucking own one saw that right away i was like that's for douchebags okay i loved students in mossimo mossimo was my favorite one yeah that was cool in new york you couldn't wear stussy what the fuck are you wearing what are you a surfer yeah no one was like what the fuck is wrong with you that's what kids would have said what's wrong with you i'm thinking not good enough for you what's the matter boss ain't good enough for you huh you can't go to get some carl can i what's going on you don't want some bright orange carl can i pants you fucking loser look at you with your no fear shirt on your stusis and your mossimos but i like it the stussy and mossimo shit was popular there fucking rad it had like a uh uh like a babe like a like a chair a baby with like angel wings and shit it's a cool little shirt i loved a flying baby and i wore it until the motherfucker ripped that one in rusty was a big brand too anyway but no fear was fucking bad and it's the worst now it's oh that's terrible it's worse now because we should know better we should absolutely know better one of the people walk and said when i heard about mandy i wanted to do something other than be afraid so this is this is not helping anything but it's making them feel like they're not afraid so that's people have to do that for their mental health here and she said if uh got her friends and family to you know help walk the route and says the walk was the end result of this goal proof that i don't have to live my life in fear well if there's 40 people around no but if you go out by yourself maybe all right now suspects here we go now uh dna was invented by a british geneticist in 1984 the first ever criminal case solved was in england in 87 is that right absolutely you would think that we would lead the way in murder finding because that's kind of what we do here uh but no um the first conviction you using dna in the u.s was also in 87 later in the year uh codis wasn't in full operation till the late 90s if you don't know codis is the system where you can enter dna in and see if any hits are in a database um yes when mandy was killed though forensic dna was barely a concept and definitely not used in courtrooms very often because you have to explain it to jurors oh god imagine that in the oj case they had to explain it to everybody and the da was telling marcia clark nobody knows what dna is they're like i she thought she had a home run with the dna and they're like that jury doesn't know what the fuck that is they can tell what a glove doesn't fit but they don't know what the fuck dna is so you better tighten your shit up basically you tell them that everybody's unique inside that none of them are going to understand why then why do i look like that guy exactly genetic fingerprints a good way to put it but still they're not getting the exact thing here uh you can see a fingerprint that's the difference you can't see dna uh so it's it's most crime labs couldn't run dna samples at all or do anything uh you know and the dna at the time meant you needed a lot of product to test you needed a lot of tissue or fluid or if you had a hair it had to have the root attached to it or else it wouldn't work it was one of those things so for them this ron peterson the guy who was trained by the fbi pulling a body from a river when most people would have just pulled it out and not cared about any forensic evidence this guy was way ahead of his time yep and that was money well spent by the county to send him to get fbi training so the guys they have are david suchy is one guy s u c h y he's a drifter yeah just what they're looking for great let's find out what he has to say yep he's a transient scene in the area on that day friday oh when she disappeared and observed along standard road which is nearby he was the obvious he's the one everyone wanted to be guilty basically because that's what you that's what you hope that's what you got him and everybody's we can go back to living yeah it's a guy that people walk to the other side of the street from so that's the guy you want to be the murderer not some guy who's you know your pastor or your kid's coach or your whatever the fuck so um birchfield aspen birchfield or saltwater cowboys coming in like they got something going on um the deputies took it serious they got a warrant for his dna okay does a dna test no match not him and ain't him um ain't him at all um they said fine they let him go uh paul train back there paul malik yeah here's your bindle we're sorry we wasted your time going away here you go we're gonna give you a couple cans of we put an extra well we put an extra can of spaghettios in there for you we thought you know what the hell this poor guy we'll give him one with the put a give him a can with the meatballs in it this poor fucking guy he's been walking come on he's walking up the tracks have a good one it just says white on the back yeah that's the type uh paul malik m-a-l-e-k um he was a neighbor backing out of his driveway as mandy jogged past oh probably one of the last two people or three people if you count the murderer to see to see her alive yeah and he drives a dark colored pickup son of a bitch knows the area has the vehicle all of that um he came in um he talked where she was this is where i was i was going this way she was going that way um now he's very talkative like he's real talkative and they're like that's weird normally people who don't do anything aren't real talkative they're they'll give you answers to the questions that are talking too much talking too little is one of the signs homicide detectives look at literally you do too much eye contact too little eye contact too much too little of that there's a normal range there's a dude they can make it but there's a normal range of shit they're looking for that it's very small it really is so uh they said that they wanted to talk to him and uh because he was the one who's like i saw her i was back out of my driveway and i did all this stuff and he's real talkative so they're like anybody who inserts themselves into an investigation that doesn't have to yeah something odd here and he doesn't know he has any information other than i saw her so he really seems like he wants to know what they want to know or what the cops know he told investigators reportedly that during all this whole thing and and his rambling he said that well mandy reminded me of my own daughter oh which can be super creepy or endearing depending on what kind of person he is it really is yeah because it's it's one of those things sometimes you have a daughter yeah if you see like a four-year-old girl sometimes you're like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god she goes oh because you remember when you're yeah you know what i mean you remember you don't talk to her or anything but you go you know that's cute i remember when my daughter was that big it's your number in your head you don't go you look like my daughter did when she was four you don't talk to them or bother them they're four but you think oh that's cute or whatever but then there's also people who say that that creep me out whether like they feel like they're like you know just that's just want to hug her no yeah no that's touching that's a weird crossover we're really good people and really bad people and we're really bad people and we're really bad people and bad people meet is and there there are cops that say things like uh i i saw this crime scene and the kid was the same age as mine and it made me yeah want to solve it more like that's that's fine that makes sense yeah yeah i was at the store the other day there was a little girl and i just remembered my daughter at that age and i just thought to myself i remember my daughter was that age i was cute that's all any little kid with a little sprig on the top of their head because presley had that on her on the top of her head yeah a little like uh a little bit of hair on the bow on it and yeah i remember anybody that has like a little sprig up there with the bow on it i get a little i remember i go get a little sentimental and i met your kids since they were babies now she's a fucking nightmare god i love that kid but she is not easy that's fucking funny and now all of her friends know about it because on netflix now they're gonna make fun of her for having a bow in her sprig in her hair that little bit of hair that's great so they talk to him uh he tells them that which they were thinking about but they do a dna test and ain't him not him not him not a scumbag the other guy they bring in is going to be the obvious choice who do you think it is jimmy the boyfriend the boyfriend you always bring in the boyfriend come on he's the first guy you talk to why are you trying to run away we got drifter guy who talked too much and then the boyfriend those are the three big ones that's the big three rick zender the boyfriend um rick zender drove mandy home from college obviously um he cooperated immediately and completely and was cleared of everything uh no dna match and it's cleared um and he also doesn't like run away He stays around, keeps up contact with her family for a while, and, you know, seems like a decent guy. Or at least within four hours. Yeah. So they said at that point, the drifter, this guy, they said at that point we were kind of focused more on the neighborhood where she grew up, where it might be somebody she knew, somebody in the area. It's got to be. And that's the other thing. If it's somebody she knew, it's a lot easier to get her. She won't do that initial back off when you talk to her. She'll actually come closer to you because she knows you. She wants to hear what you're saying. January 6th, 1990, the task force leader here, the King County prosecutor, said the kidnapping and death of Mandy has renewed his resolve to push for sweeping legislation to impose harsher penalties on violent sex offenders. This guy says he's the chairman of a task force on community protection. The task force drafted a package. The package of recommendations, including longer prison sentences, a requirement that convicted sex offenders register with authorities because they didn't even do registering yet then, and possible civil commitment of offenders, meaning in like an institution until they're ready to not rape anybody. This guy said that Stavik Mandy disappeared about a half mile from his boyhood home. So it's very personal for him. He said he grew up on a dairy farm near Acme and also went to Mount Baker High School where Mandy went. Also, he said, of course, the tragedy in Acme has renewed my commitment to not only develop this package, but to make sure it passes the legislature. This is a problem in every town and city in Washington. The task force was formed after the sexual mutilation of a seven-year-old Tacoma boy last May and the rape killing of a Seattle woman nine months earlier. Jesus. Wow. The 24-member panel's recommendations are expected to cost $15 million this year and $55 million in the next two years. Next two-year budget cycle. And that's money well spent if we stop that shit from happening. That's money that we should be spending. That's the type of money you should be spending, yeah. Goddamn. State lawmakers returned to work Monday and have scheduled legislative packages, and they said it's on a very fast track. They're looking for a maximum sentence of life in prison for repeat rapists, child rapists, and child molesters of, you know, a special origin. A requirement that convicted sex offenders register, obviously. Weird thing is that's the thing everybody's been – they said that constitutional questions are raised about the provision for registration, which is something nobody has a problem with that I can – that I've ever heard of. What's the constitutional part? Cruel and unusual? You can't – What are they trying to say? No, I don't know. Putting people on lists. Tracking people? Tracking people. There's certain things to that. Yeah. Invasion of privacy type of thing. I'm not sure. No. That's the one that nobody – we're all in agreement on. We're all in agreement. We're all – the only people that have a problem with it. Yeah. There's no real sides to that one. I mean the ACLU is probably fine with that even. Like, well, yeah, that's fine. That's, you know, these are diddlers. So they said the registration would be a valuable tool for law enforcement and the ability to identify, commit – indefinitely commit convicted sex offenders to psychiatric institutions once they finish prison. So that would be another place to put them. People are pissed here. That's one of the things. People are pissed and they don't know what to do about it. And when they don't know what to do about it, this is when bad laws get made and bad things happen. And like after 9-11, we did a ton of dumb shit because we were all scared. Made it in wrong countries and pissed away hundreds of billions of dollars. And it's a – we do it all the time. That's what groups are good at. Humans are great at that. Mass panic. Yeah. Mass panic. Individually, not. Coupled, not. You get more than five, it's all – bets are off. This is an editorial from a Sharon Chandler of 3214 Valette Street. She says, The death of Mandy Stavik, a wonderful young woman, was the last straw. Are we safe in Whatcom County anymore? Oh, God. Yes, you are. What about all those folks out there working and improving their lives through walking and jogging? Do they feel safe? We need to do what it takes. One, support the local – or support the law enforcement and judicial systems to make sure the perpetrators – are caught and punished to the full extent of the law. I think that's being done. There's no – there's nobody trying to take – Everybody wants that done. Yeah. There's nobody trying to take money from the rape and murder task force. That's not how that works. Two, establish the strong student – or statement message of those moving into our community that violence of this nature will not be tolerated here. Stay out. What community is it tolerate? What community do they go, yeah, what do you got? Child rapist? Come on in. There's a two-bedroom. There's a two-bedroom here you're going to love. It's real nice, spacious, overlooking the river. Yeah. That's the craziest thing. Overlooking the daycare. Yeah. And then three, keep crime and gangs out of Whatcom County. You live in the woods. Yeah. I don't think you have to worry about that too much. But there's a ton of crime there now, which is not gangs. I applaud the efforts of law enforcement on the crackdown. Please don't let it get a hold of our youth and community. That's just a person whose hair is on fire and they're just angry and they think, I want more things. They're just slobbering a bunch of people. A bunch of cliches and- Yes. Shit that doesn't work but costs a lot of money. Parroting shit that's already been said to them that they believe is the right answer. And I'm sure they heard it on some fucking weird talk radio. I'm sure Rushman Boss said horseshit or somebody like that. On a billboard or some shit. Some idiots. November 24th, 1991, still nothing. Yeah. It's a year later. Nothing. Or two years later. We got Ugots here. Two years here. They're still waiting for something, which is crazy. The basketball coach, Jim Freeman, said, I still think about her a lot. I still feel a loss. Okay. And then her mother, Mary, said, the community is not forgotten. It was not just Mandy who was raped and murdered. The whole community was raped and murdered and they will never forget it. That's a weird statement. My God. Wow. Raped and murdered, huh? Maybe raped mentally, but murdered is pretty specific of what that is. Yeah. That's a mom at her wit's end. She's had enough. I don't know what to say. She doesn't know what to say anymore. No. They also have in the newspaper just this. Anyone with information on the Mandy Stavik case should call these phone numbers. Detectives are still seeking information on three vehicles seen in the area. This is two years later. A full-size light brown station wagon, late 70s model with a chrome roof rack, another chrome trim, possibly a Chevy or Chrysler, male driver, 30 to 35, pudgy face, heavy build, dark hair, sideburns, large mustache, three-day. Beard growth. A dark brown pickup with a white canopy. I mean, that's the cap there. The canopy has dark brown stripe on the side and the truck had a metal step and diamond plate running boards. Okay. Which sounds like my grandfather's pickup truck, which is. Every grandfather in the 70s had that truck. Does the license plate holder say happiness is being Italian? Because if it is, I think I can solve this case right now. I think we can lock this up. Does it also say. He's been dead. The front one said a bad day fishing is still better than a good day at work. That's my grandfather. That might be that. Yeah. A dark brown or black Chevy or Ford pickup truck with matching canopy and a gold stripe trim and slightly oversized tires. So that's what they're looking for. People are so pissed the sheriff gets voted out. Oh, fuck. Loses his job. Lost his job because he couldn't solve it. One of the locals here, Sue Kimble, who's a neighbor of Mandy's family. Said the anger is reflected in the November 5th election results in which the challenger defeated the incumbent by a sizable margin. The president or the sheriff, current sheriff garnered only 22% of the vote in the precinct that Acme is in. That's a no confidence vote. That is. He's probably he's probably related to the other 22% who voted for him because it's such a small area. Yeah. Lost by 80%. Yeah. Compared with nearly 46% in the county at large here. But he got in Acme two years before the murder. He got almost 75% of the vote in Acme. So in those four years, he lost overwhelmingly from 75 to 22% in this area based solely on this. And the one lady said the unsolved crime had a lot to do with it. Fucking. Yeah. There's still a reward. The sheriff's department continues its investigation. Has no suspects. But they do have a $25,000 reward fund for information leading to the arrest and conviction here. But they say it's untouched and nothing's happened. Now, there's another weird thing here that her mom is talking about. The police and county prosecutors have suggested to her that Mandy's death may have been an accidental outcome of an abduction and a rape. Maybe it wasn't intentional, the murder. But it's not. Okay. Some speculate that Mandy escaped from her captor, fell, fled, fell in the river and drowned, she said. Okay. So she got away. I don't know who would run. That would mean that this was happening away from the river. And she said, I'm going to run toward the river to get away. Right. Who the fuck runs into a river to get away? I mean, I. Are there people there? No. You run toward where people are. Houses, things you can run on. You can't run on water. No. No. But, I mean. If you. get across the water, that's certainly going to slow down somebody that's chasing you i suppose but i just i wouldn't i wouldn't think someone's gonna go i'm gonna run through the thorny blackberry bushes into the river because that's where i'll be safe that just doesn't make sense i mean you do weird shit i guess too if someone's on you but it makes more sense that she'd run away from the river because that's where you drown you're saying but that's what she's doing if that's the theory is that's the equivalent of throwing shit behind you as you run you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah i suppose i'm just not buying this uh they said that that's that's the accidental theory which i don't think is true um her mom said they really believe that it's possible that her death was accidental the chances that uh he would that someone would be convicted of murder are pretty slim is what she was told so now she's been told i guess this is all fucked out now um we might get somebody on rape but we can't get him on murder who knows he said she said right now i can kind of put it out of my mind i don't really relish going through a trial anyway so she's like i can kind of just say i guess fuck it um she said she's just focusing on commemorating her daughter's achievements she showed off a plaque bearing mandy's portrait and the name of the first mount baker high school student to receive the mandy stavik memorial scholarship that's on payout or whatever um she said the mom said she planned to place the plaque temporarily at mandy's grave site in the clipper cemetery she hopes it will remind people that mandy's ambition is to save her daughter's life to excel lives on and she said the plaque will later hang at school it's a six thousand dollar scholarship fund raised mostly by sales of mandy's song tape it's their fucking we are the world they they sold some they sold it probably at the general store yeah um still growing they said albeit slowly the first 750 scholarship scholarship went to lydia stewart now a freshman at western washington university yeah uh lydia's scholarship is still growing and she said she's going to be his brother pete stewart co-authored mandy's song oh the tape yeah i mean it's a small town so yeah yeah the tape can be ordered and donations made to the scholarship fund by writing to mandy's song fund and i don't think you can still do this i don't think there's still a bellingham national bank so i'm sorry that's where it is uh they said uh this is mary mom anytime a child dies it's really important to the parent that their memory is alive and that they're going to be able to be kept alive somehow i'm just really lucky that mandy was the kind of person that made people want to do things like this for her in her memory um so there's a mandy stavik reward fund it's over seventeen thousand dollars there's a mandy stavik personal fund which is over twenty five hundred dollars that is uh defray the cost of funeral anything given beyond those expenses will be basically they said a christmas gift to the stavik family they're just going to keep it anything beyond okay um and the amanda mandy stavik memorial scholarship which does so that's what they have for her so now as the 90s progress dna becomes way more oh common and it's being used for everything rolls in progress nowadays it's so funny because nowadays when they have murder suspects watch interrogations that have happened in like the last eight years they barely want to talk to you they just want to swab you and take you to the hospital and they're like oh my god you're not going to take your phone that's all they really need from you yeah they don't need to hear it because your phone will show me where you are and what happened if they've already got your dna uh when they come to sit them down they just want to ask them were you ever in this house and if they say no they go well then put these cuffs on because your dna's in there you just said no yeah then you did it but that's that's it and whether they said yes or no they still would have cuffed and they just wanted to fuck with them for a minute yeah it looks worse that they lied about it right that's all it is so uh the police investigation leads to a bunch of suspects who they exclude due to dna uh case goes cold wow um possible suspects roughly 30 local men throughout the 90s gave voluntarily gave dna or were otherwise ruled out for rock solid alibis or you know one guy who had like one leg or something he's not going to chase a fucking athlete or anybody over a certain age or bad health um there's the drifter named david sochi that we talked about um the neighbor the boyfriend uh they even ran the profile against gary ridgeway because they said it's a little far for him but fuck it i mean maybe they took a trip that day yeah yeah maybe they took a trip up by then yeah once he got caught in the 90s there um 2003 comes around stop it 14 years what com county law enforcement officials discount a report that linked a deceased robbery and murder suspect to the murder apparently there's a rumor going around that this guy who died uh former jefferson county sheriff pete pacini said that in 1990 he found evidence in a locker that linked charles t sinclair to stavik but they conclusively rule him out 2007 the webcom county sheriff's office devotes more hours to reviewing the case reports of the murder of charles t sinclair and the murder of charles t sinclair and the murder of charles t sinclair cold cases and sending detectives to re-interview people involved nothing happens 20 years later man 2009 god 20 years later detective kevin bohey b-o-w hey um h-a-y he reopens the investigation he was a rookie in 1989 a rookie cop when this murder happened so this was like this big deal this big black cloud that's been hanging over the department his entire career his entire career since he since he came up so um and he decides he is going to redo all this and get dna samples from anyone who lived anywhere in the fucking area don't care if you got a dick and you lived around here yeah we're swabbing you period um that's it he starts from starts from page one and redoes the entire investigation which is a big deal this is 20 years of investigation yeah he looks at who was interviewed who wasn't interviewed all this shit he also saw apparently uh is this a a movie here um the blooding do you know this flooding the blooding yeah um apparently it's joseph wambaugh's account of the 1980s uh like a sure invest like a sure investigation where british dna tested thousands of local men to catch the killer of two teenage girls wambaugh that's got to be a book right i don't know if it's a book or a movie i'm not sure uh but either way it was they just said gather everybody up and if you take enough samples you'll find the person and he said why can't i do that fuck it if they do it voluntarily then why not whatever so take it um this was the first because the one he read about was the first dna dragnet in history oh the first time they ever did that because two teenage girls were murdered um it worked the thing is the interesting thing is the killer ended up getting a co-worker to take the test for him and then the co-worker talked about it in a pub and that's how he got caught the guy which is interesting so all of that didn't matter because it was caught by some guy who told on him so basic police work ended up solving it not dna um interesting so over the course of the investigation detective bow way or bow hay and his team collect more than 80 people's dna oh 20 years later um wow they asked him by the way 48 hours to the story on this and they asked him how many times did you drive the route that she was on mandy's route and he says at least 100 over the last 20 years work in this case at least 100 so i'm just just when he's bored he goes and drives it and sees you know maybe something else maybe it would have been here or maybe that hoping to see an angle that he didn't see before which is really frustrating has to be um just done so much of it um you know he said he goes through it and he knows everything here's where she started here's the bend here's the wooded stretch where i thought she was taken here's that he knows it by like you know a blind guy knows her house basically um so over the last several years he's doing all of this all these different people 2010 there's a local drug dealer well he's not local anymore but he used to be a local drug dealer named john wisniewski yeah he told some people back in the early 90s that he knows stuff about this murder that he maybe shouldn't know and the inference is either he knows who did it or he may have done it himself let's talk with drug dealer problem is he lives in cambodia now what it's been 20 it's been 21 years he's in cambodia so why did he move i mean he's obviously in trouble here right why would you move there fuck knows maybe he's like uh you know the righteous gemstones guy where he's like yeah he's one of those guys it's like man fucking chicks and fucking you know they know how to treat you over there type of shit yeah man could live like a king on 300 yeah yeah cambodia too go to the camille rouge and fire off fucking machine guns and you could probably you know you could probably pay 30 to kill a child there and they would like there's they have wallace areas of cambodia they're crazy and that's just that they're cambodian walmart that's as i say that's actually the delta terminal at the airport but then once you get into the actual country wow it's crazy then it gets wild so his dn wasn't a match. They already had the guy's DNA, and it wasn't a match, but for some reason, this cop said, I really have a feeling about this guy. I want to speak Cambodian to him. I really want to go on a free trip to Cambodia. I've always been interested, because the DNA does not match. Everybody else immediately is out once their DNA doesn't match. This guy's like, I still would love to talk to him. I want to kill a $30 child. So he does. He goes all the way over there, and he said that he kept repeating the denials, and the cop said, he's a good liar, and I have a bad feeling about him, but what I don't have is any evidence whatsoever, and his DNA doesn't match. So, waste of time. Flying back home. Another dead end. Got a tan. Perfect. It was great, though. I tried some great food. It was amazing. It's a jungle over there. It's beautiful. It's a jungle out there. June of 2013 comes around. Oh my god. This is the most unlikely way that a case has ever been solved in the history of small-town murder, by the way. Okay. June 2013, Birch Bay water slides, which is a water park near Bellingham. Yeah. Not what you expected me to say, correct? It's an interesting start. That's the scene. Okay. Two moms from the Acme area who didn't come there together and don't know each other very well, by the way. They just recognize each other from Acme and realize we're probably the only two people from Acme here we should talk. Okay. So, while they're kids, they're watching their kids do water park shit and the parents sit there and talk. Right. They're both from Acme. Within a couple of minutes, their small talk drifts into, isn't it crazy how we still don't know who killed Mandy back in 1989? That's all they have to talk about. That's how boring this town is. Isn't that weird? I agree. There's some weird shit happening right now and us talking about this is part of it. In a fucking water park. Honey, yeah, it's weird that she's dead. Okay, sweetie, watch out. Be careful. It's time to reapply sunscreen to my children. Why do you want to talk about rape and murder, you psycho? But they both want to do it. Yeah. They both went to Mount Baker High School but barely knew each other up until this point. They started chatting and suddenly the one, Backstrom, Heather Backstrom and Merrilee Anderson are these two. Backstrom suddenly blurts out, I know who killed her. Why? And what? Huh? Great. Tell us. What the fuck are you telling me for? Yeah. Why'd you wait this long? Then Anderson said, I do too. They know the same guy? Where the fuck were you two then? What the fuck, you two? Now, they're intrigued because they both have an idea of who they think did it, basically. I know who killed her. You say it. I'll tell you if that's who I think. So, they end up saying the Anderson says it's a guy named Tim Bass. Not Tom Bass who we talked about earlier who Mandy was supposed to hang out with. Tim Bass, Tom's brother. And did the other girl say the same thing? Let's get into this here. She said Tim Bass who also graduated from Mount Baker who was a friend of this Anderson woman's husband, by the way. Oh boy. She said one time he stopped by her house one night a couple of years after the murder and knocked on the door. He said he'd been out hunting and needed to use the phone. Now, Anderson was home alone with her infant son. She said she heard Tim Bass dial the phone, but she could hear the beep, beep, beep of it not going through. Yeah, he's just holding it up to his ear. After a while, that dial tone would go beep, beep, beep. That's what happened. So, she suspected that he was not dialing a working number and lying to her trying to get into the house. Good instinct. So, this lady says, so then he walks through the kitchen and back to my bedroom and he said that he used to drive by our house and that he's always been in love with me and he wanted to make love to me. Can I make a phone call? I've wanted to make love to you is a very big in the background. She said she was overcome with fear at that moment. Her husband was away and she was alone with a man who now she's scared of. She said, I kept telling him, no, no, but he kept trying to convince me to go into the bedroom with him. Finally, I told him I would call the police and somehow, I don't even remember how exactly I got him out of my house. Backstrom says, that's exactly the fucking guy I'm talking about. Tim fucking Bass. Why do they know that? Well, Backstrom said, I had a weird experience with Tim also. That's why they know that. Fuck. They don't know anything about the case other than this is a guy who lived there that creeped them out, so he might be capable of whatever. She said she had a terrible experience months before the murder of Mandy. The other one was a couple years after. This is before. This Backstrom was only 15 at the time and Bass was 21. This Bass is three years older than Mandy. It was after a softball game. They were riding in a truck, driven by another young man named Dan, who, by the way, Heather, the other woman she's talking to, eventually married. This woman's husband was still in the truck at this point, too. It's a small town. Oh, yeah, you were in the truck with him? Yeah, I married that guy. Amazing. At the time, though, everybody was just friends. Heather, or I'm sorry, she married, not the other lady, the lady who's telling the story, she married Dan. Oh, God, I got confused. At the time, though, they were just friends. Heather sat between the driver and Tim Bass in the front seat while everyone else was in the back of the truck. Wow. Bass started aggressively flirting with her, she said. It's 21 and 15. That's crazy. Gross. She said, quote, he would talk about my eyes and say that they were beautiful. Then he took a pen out of the cup holder and would start rubbing it along my knees. What? What a creep. Why is that flirting? That's not your finger, a pen? That's weird. Tracing her knee? What's her knee with a fucking pen? She said she was very uneasy but was not, didn't freak out because she knew there was another person in the cab and thought that Dan would prevent Tim from getting any more physical. But it always stuck out in her memory and she made a point of always trying to avoid contact with Tim Bass after that. They, for years, thought that he behaved toward them in a predatory way and that made them rubbing your, okay, rubbing a girl's knee with a pen, and abduction, rape, and murder are worlds apart. Vast. Worlds apart. Vast. That's like saying, I went out with this guy once and he tried to kiss me and I didn't want to, and then, you know, he didn't kiss me and it was fine, but I think he might have killed this girl. Like, what are you talking about? That's a big leap. Far as I know, Louis C.K. hasn't murdered and raped anybody. However, he's done much creepier things than dragging a pen along somebody's knee. Yeah. You will have, you know, jizz on your shoes when you're done talking to him. That's a whole other issue, though. Right. So, this stuck out. Better be wearing closed-toed. Yeah. Oh, definitely. But the other woman, I could see, he came to her house and that's really uncomfortable, but he didn't rape her or anything. Right. She left, so he left, but anyway, they thought that for years this was weird, but they had nothing more concrete to go on, so they never called the cops and said, I think it's this guy. And also, Anderson said, I really wasn't ready because we were in a small town and to accuse someone of something, of something we don't know for sure is a little scary, because then you look like a crazy person. Yeah, but we just called the cops and said, maybe look at this guy. Yeah, but I mean based on that, you sound crazy. I was in a truck with him. I was in a truck with him 30 years ago and he rubbed a pen on my leg. So, the cop would go, okay, and? Well, he rubbed a pen on my leg. It was kind of uncomfortable. Did he, you know, put his dick in your face? No, no, no. The other story is scarier. The other story is in her house. That's fucking, that's terrifying. With a toddler. With her child, yeah. But, at this point, they said it was time to speak up. So, they contacted a high school classmate who, of course, is also a sheriff, a detective with the sheriff's department, because everybody knows each other and said, there's this guy Tim Bass. Did you look at Tim Bass? And they go, yeah, we talked to the Bass guy when it first happened. He was one of the guys looking for the body. And they go, no, no, no, no, no. That's Tom Bass. Right. Tim Bass is the guy. We're talking about. Literally one letter off. Oh, shit. So, the Basses were a known family on Strand Road. Dad and Mom Sandra and the two boys, Tim and Tom there. Tom was in the same social circles as Mandy. Okay. They were supposed to hang out that night. They were friends. They knew each other well. They were friends. His older brother, Tim, though, born in 1968, about three years older than that group, doesn't hang out with them. This is Timothy Forrest Bass is his name. Timothy Forrest Bass. Which sounds like the strangest animal that's ever lived. Your Forrest Bass, he don't need much water. I'll tell you that. It's a bass that swims up the stream and for reasons unknown, just flops out in the forest and dies. I mean, he's good for a while, but, you know, he ends up running out of water. They just flop out there and die under a tree. So, he is obviously used to be a neighbor that we know of, 'cause Tom was a neighbor, lived on Strand Road Also, same road. He's been married to the same woman since 1991. That's impressive. As of now. Has three kids. Like I said, grew up on Strand Road. Same dead end stretch. Grew up just a few houses away. 25 years marriage? 25 years at that point. So that means that Mandy jogged past his house nearly every single fucking day. Wow. Always jogged past the house. Her regular five-mile route took her directly by his front yard. Yeah. There you go. So Tim also went to Mount Baker High School, class of 1986. So they overlapped, actually. They were in school at the same time. Everybody knows everybody. Tom, his brother, says Tim got real fucking weird at one point. Oh? Yeah. He said as kids, they were really close. Tom says his brother and they were, you know, he says Tim's always been a loner. But as a teenager. And he was fine. And then he started to get deeper issues. Yeah. Tom said they were always very competitive. We had a lot of fun together playing different sports. Saying Tim has always been a loner. But it got weirder. Okay. Tom says, this is from a 48 Hours interview, by the way. I've got to give credit where it's due. I didn't go fucking talk to these people. I'll tell you that much. I don't have time to. Tom said social interactions never really been natural to him. That's what he said. Not a real social guy, Tim. Tom remembers one particular night after a high school girlfriend broke up with Tim. Tim lost his fucking mind. Not happy. Tom said, quote, he was on the phone with her in his bedroom. And he apparently had a pistol with him. At some point, he said, I'm going to kill myself. And he actually ended up firing the gun in the house at some point. For her to hear over the phone. Something fired it into the air. And Tom said, from that night. From that night on, people close to Tim noticed that he was a different guy from that night on. Being dumped once ruined him. Which is pretty fucking weak. So, Tom says, just the disgust, the disrespect toward women. That turned him completely different. Fuck all women? How often does that happen, though? I know so many guys that were normal guys that got a divorce that turned into fucking misogynist lunatics. Yeah. Because their wife took half their shit. And now, they hate women. And they're, they used to be normal people with normal opinions. And then one woman, they feel wronged them. And now they hate them. And it's like, it's such a weird, a weird thing to be. I know, I know a guy that got divorced three times. And each time, progressively worse. Yeah. By the third one. This man's now in his 60s. He's been divorced for 20 years. And just hates women. Yeah. Absolutely. It's fucking true. There's a lot of assholes, even like famous people. You go, why did he make that turn? Yeah. Look at when his divorce was. When was his divorce? Yeah. You know exactly the one I'm fucking talking about, too. We've met the guy, as a matter of fact. Yeah. It correlates. Yeah. Oh, that's why he's like that. Okay. So, yeah, just the disrespect toward women. Then his, this is Tom's wife, Robin, said, she saw it, too. She said, oh, yes, I think that he really thinks that women are inferior to him. Yeah. That's a really wild thing. It's so fucking weird. And it doesn't necessarily even have to be a divorce. It could just be like that, a breakup. He got dumped in high, it's a fucking high school relationship. Yeah. Who cares? Everybody gets dumped in high school. Get over it. What's wrong with you? Fuck, wait till you're mid-20s. That's when it really hurts. That's when it's, yeah, when you start planning things. Yeah. And you're like, oh, in high school, you're not planning anything. You know you're not going to be with this person very long. It doesn't matter. And in your mid-20s. And there's so many other girls. Right. In your mid-20s, you both got a salary. And that compensatory value kind of, you start to see yourself as like, I don't know, you value yourself at a certain level. And then for her to treat you like garbage and, I'm doing well. How dare you? I'm trying, goddammit. So they said that this, people described him very oddly. They said that, this is very weird, doing some more, you know, follow up on this, they found. They found that everyone calls him a loner, quiet, or a bit of a weirdo, a bit of an oddball. That's what everybody says about Tim. Once, when he was already out of high school, he would show up to watch the girls' high school basketball games. Ew. Which, creepy, but also, it's a small town. He went to the high school. Everybody kind of does that. Because I think it's creepy to watch high school sports if your kid's not playing in it. I think it's fucking weird. I think it's creepy to show up to any girls' sporting event if your child is not there. Or relative. Or boys. What are you, kidding me? I just mean, I just mean because there's a blanket acceptance of showing up to boys' sports in like. Yeah, it shouldn't be. That's creepy. That's what I'm saying. I don't disagree, but I'm just. Grown men want to watch boys sweat and fucking wrestle and tackle each other? You're a fucking pedophile. That's creepy as fuck. I have no interest in watching boys' football. Yeah, it's their neighborhood high school and they're living a dream and drinking beer. They're tailgating it. That's maybe even worse. That's the creepiest shit ever. In like Texas, 15,000 people show up to watch children in an athletic event. To watch somebody else's children. Creepy. Yeah, that's disgusting and weird and creepy and shows a lack of a life. It's infinitely worse to show up to a girls' basketball game if your child or family member is not on the fucking court. No. And I guess it's, like I said, because it's such a small town, it's not considered weird behavior because there's really nothing else to do. I think that. Except go to the. Acme Diner concerts. Yeah. I think that about any girls' sports, to be honest with you. Yeah, me too. I don't care if it's the U.S. women's soccer team. I'm not showing up unless my daughter's playing. Otherwise, you feel like a creep. Otherwise, it's fucking weird. It's fucking weird, which is not great for the. No, it's not good advertising for them. The metrics of their fucking sport. It really doesn't help them very much here. So, but that's just a weird thing they noticed. Now, in November of 1989, when this all happened, he had a girlfriend. Tim did. Right. His high school sweetheart, who he ended up marrying. Marrying. In January of. And that, two years later is when that other lady said that, if that happened, he was fucking married. He was fucking married already. Absolutely. This is Gina Malone as his high school sweetheart. Gina said, quote, I married him basically to get away from my home. She just needed to get out of the house. Old school, small town, get me the fuck out of this house. Apparently, weeks after they got married, which was January 1990. He wanted to move away from the area and they moved to Everson, which is outside of Bellingham. She says throughout her 30 year marriage to him, he was controlling and emotionally, emotionally abusive as well. Yeah. She said, I felt like his servant. Go get me a drink. Go make my food. Things like that. Creepy. Tom, the brother said, I personally witnessed him tell Gina to shut up, you know, eight million times. Really? Complete asshole. Gina said it didn't feel like a marriage. It felt like I went to prison, actually. But they had three kids and he she was asked, why did you stay with them? And Gina said, I was scared and I did leave. Actually, I got a restraining order and left for two months. At that point, I started divorce proceedings. And then he's like, quote, I'm just going to lie to the judge and get the kids taken away from you. She said anything with my kids. I'm just like, OK, I'm going to do whatever I have to do to not lose my kids. And, you know, got him back eventually when this is all going on. Well, there's that. But there's also the restraining order part looks bad. It looks bad. He can lie his ass off in court. Judges see hundreds of things. They do. They'll see through you in a blink. They do. But you don't know. You don't realize that when you're in that situation that you actually have the high card in court. And I'm also springing generalizations because there's generalizations. I got to fucking enunciate. But there are certainly situations that judges don't see through. And then there's there's been violence based on a divorce, too, because the judge didn't see it. But for the most part, county or something. Yeah. Yeah. That's why there's certain Brady laws exist to keep fucking divorce. You're not allowed to have guns if you're going through a contentious divorce because. Yeah. Yeah. Like that happens. But for the most part, judges are so good. I doubt that'll stay law for very long. It's going to come off the books pretty quick. They'll probably give you an extra. Or a gun if you're going through a divorce. Divorce is going to be both of you need a gun now. You need a gun to protect each other from each other. Yeah. Courts. On your way out. There you go, guys. Did you guys get your divorce 357s? They're out there. Here's your here's your here's your pen and your pistol, everybody. You can sign and walk. Now, he has no criminal history in Washington state. Really? None. Zero. But in August 2010, that's when his wife filed for domestic violence protection lasting longer than a year. And apparently. Apparently, though, the wife alleged physical and verbal abuse and claimed that Tim watched cold case file TV shows. She put this in her fucking court document in 2010. So this isn't after he was accused. Cold case file TV shows. He was obsessed with them. And during one incident, he told her, quote, I wouldn't get caught because I'm not that stupid. It'd be easy to get away with this. These people are morons. Wow. Everybody that got caught, he would laugh at them and say how dumb they are. If they got caught, not how terrible they are. They did this murder. The only thing that he got out of the whole show is this fucking idiot. What a moron. idiot yep um now here's the other thing no one saw tim bass the day that mandy went missing no one saw him tom's accounted for he's not um brad gorham was at the bass house to hang out with tom bass gorham said tom bass that he and tom bass both said that tim was not at the house when they were there or when they saw mandy run by okay tim wasn't there none of the other witnesses put on ever uh put him there either so he was out doing something he told his brother that he was out hunting all weekend which we don't think is true um also gross what what a word to say when there's a missing girl yes exactly um very awful now they ask both brothers to give dna mm-hmm because i mean they both knew her um they both refuse why they refuse to give dna really and the a have zero evidence to get a court order to compel him to have dna taken they can't get dna out of this guy unless he wants to give it to him at this point so they talked to tim boss or tim bass sorry bass uh i was looking at detective bohe under it and i'm like i put the bow in there uh detective bohe asked bass for a dna sample he indicated he was investigating the man who killed him and he said he was the man who killed mandy stavik death tim acted like he didn't know who she was who's she who's that yeah the detective said uh he looked up and kind of um like he was searching his memory like who's that and then then he said oh that was that girl that was found in the river years ago right and bass told the detective that he didn't really know mandy and said initially he said i don't even know where she lived i don't even know meanwhile they lived fucking few houses down from each other you know everybody that lives on your street uh but he said either way unless you have a warrant i'm not giving you a dna sample go fuck yourself okay so february 2015 now we can't follow him and fuck his trash that's what we're going to talk about uh february 2015 they contact him again and he again says didn't do nothing ain't giving you no dna so go fuck yourselves okay then we find out his brother starts to crack on him a he was now he starts getting worried because they've talked to me twice now this is getting asking weird questions so he admits to his brother he says look i gotta tell you something what not that i killed her not that i raped her but he said me and mandy slept together a couple of times we used to bang me and her we used to bang a couple times before she left for college and then once more while she was home for thanksgiving break he tells his brother tom was like what's going on and he's like i don't know what's going on and he's like i don't know what's what are you talking about you didn't fucking know i was hanging out with her you didn't know her what are you talking about yeah um he was shocked that he said how'd that happen and tim said oh i just went up to her and said oh you're keeping fit and that was it oh i'm a coxman i mean she just saw me and i'm irresistible obviously so um tim then told tom that he and mandy slept together you know before that as well then he asked tom hey will you do me a favor just so i on this one tell the cops that you also slept with mandy that way it'll look like she slept around a lot and that way maybe it'll go away you know call her a whore if you would that would be helpful for me if you just could you uh spread some rumors about the deceased because i slept with her once yeah why would that matter there's a nice young dead lady please uh make sure everyone thinks she's a filthy filthy whore just make sure everyone thinks that she fucked everyone in the world she was a filthy whore she was a filthy whore she was a filthy whore she was a filthy whore yeah it's ridiculous a few days later yeah tim and his wife gina sat down with a conversation in a conversation with sandra tim and tom's mom this is maybe the craziest conversation of all time this is wild all right he says this and just out in the open out loud his wife sitting there and his mom and his mom he says mom mom okay you gotta do me a favor look dad's dead okay no one's helping him he's not good why don't we why don't we tell the cops that dad killed mandy that way they'll leave me the fuck alone let's tell the cops my dead father killed a teenage girl why would we do that unless you did that yeah why he said well that way they'll still leave me alone if they have a suspect they'll go oh it must have been that guy and they'll close it it'll be over smirch his legacy yeah let's both of their legacies really either either she was a whore or my father's a piece of shit and a murderer one of the two um she the mom covered her face with her hands and said no no no like i'm not doing it i'm not saying my dead husband murdered a fucking teenage girl um then he admits to tom that he was in the homestead field where the kids party near where she was found the same weekend she died so she wasn't out hunting wasn't doing any of that he was right there so then he puts himself at the crime scene yeah then oh my god um more from his wife uh his wife tells a little more to the cops about their relationship that he's intensely controlling which is a rapist murderer that's kind of what they do dictating what she wore where she went who she was allowed to talk to she described being afraid of him and said she didn't feel safe um and of course he liked to brag that if he ever committed murder he'd never get caught because he's better than these idiots okay uh which is hilarious also gina um said that she and bass had seen mandy run past the bass residence from bass's upstairs bedroom window you can see her running that's what she said i've seen it before so he must have seen it too so 2017 they have no probable cause they have this is crazy nothing yeah this is almost 30 years 30 years they have nothing the detective contacts tim bass's boss he works at a bakery the franz bakery at this point that's what he does he delivers baker baked goods this guy um she contact he they contact her his boss a woman named kim wagner and the weird thing is he said we're trying to get some trash or some dna from this guy wagner said he'd ever let he doesn't throw anything out he takes everything home with him everything no he takes his trash home with him this man watches so much yep he takes cold case he takes shit home and burns it he said he was the only driver that takes his work clothes home every day to wash them because they leave them there and they're laundered there yeah like centos or something he's the only driver that takes his work clothes home to launder his own clothes his own clothes and they said that was weird because she she thought it was strange but you know whatever um no cigarette butts no coffee cups and the bath in the garbage no no nothing you cannot fucking he doesn't he throws everything takes it with him she always thought it was weird but she thought he was a weird guy she didn't think he's covering up a murder so that's what made this kim wagner even notice him the clothes thing which was so weird registered as odd and uh the perfect discipline about garbage and shit so by the way a little bit about kim uh she was 19 years old in 1989 and grew up near acme and managed to murder she said was the first basically genuinely terrifying thing that happened that made her realize that bad the bad things of the outside world could get to her it was mandy that did that ruined took her innocence um kim manages the retail outlet store at the franz family bakery in bellingham uh at the bellingham in bellingham it's a bread company um you remember like the entenmann store they had like on there's one of those like the day old shit that goes out of the stores uh one of the delivery drivers here is him and it's strange so what she says about tim quote the tim bass i knew he was different he was weird they said how was he weird and she said you just never knew what tim was going to be at work that day the smallest thing would anger him and so you'd tend to kind of stay away from people like that you don't know what tim is going to show up no and she also said that he has a very low regard for women and that was pretty obvious the whole time he worked there she said that quote he always called me woman the not kim calls i guess woman yes and uh she's like that was weird she said you know whatever but you know um so bass worked for these he's delivering bread to local stores the detective asked kim wagner if they could swab a delivery truck for dna yeah basically um they she when they call before they even bring it up they don't before they even bring up tim bass and she says all that they don't even bring it up they don't even bring it up they don't even bring it up they don't that's the first question they ask they don't say who they want to get they just say could we'd swab one of your delivery trucks um so she manages the retail outlet and doesn't supervise the driver so she said i don't fucking know you got to call the corporate office they called the corporate office the corporate office said no they refused they called about a murder investigation and they said no don't fuck with our bread trucks huh so that's if you buy from that company that think about that for a minute um a different angle here. So then they were like, fuck. thwarted there. So they contact Kim Wagner again. And they specifically ask, can you find out Tim Bass's delivery route? Maybe we can get something if we follow him around. He'll throw away a coffee cup or something. So now Wagner at that point figured out that this is probably about the Mandy Stavik case. And the guy said, it is actually. So she said, OK, here's his delivery route and here's his schedule, Tim's. So they trail him for a whole night. And he said they got nothing, nothing. He said cigarette butts, bottles, anything he may have drank from, anything he may have eaten or half eaten or thrown away, got nothing. Couldn't collect any discarded items that might have had his DNA on it. So then he's like, fuck. So Kim Wagner contacts the detective again to find out how the surveillance went. And the detectives, she said, how'd it go? It's her employee. He works there. Yeah. Is he going to be taken away for murder or not? What are we doing here? You guys, how'd it go? Yeah, it's fascinating. Seems normal. It's a small town, too. They probably know each other. And she and this took her innocence. So she's like every day probably acting weird around. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. The detective said we texted back and forth during this whole process. The detective said we didn't get any DNA. So Wagner tells the detective, I'll get you some DNA. I'll get you some DNA. I'll get you a water bottle, she said. Would that work? And he said, sure, I'll get you some DNA. Come over here. Put your head down here. The detective said that would be fine. It'd be great. The detective said he told Wagner, quote, I couldn't tell her what to do or not to do. But he agreed that he didn't try to dissuade her. He was just like, I mean, if you really want to, because legally he can't tell her collect DNA for me because now she's an agent of the state. But if she does it on her own and comes and brings it in, I mean, hey, that's just a private citizen helping out. Nothing we can do about that. So what she does is she starts watching him at work. There is a small employee checkout room, which is a shared office that's not open to the general public. They go in and check in and check out with their shit. So not long after this conversation, he drank from a plastic cup and left it in the room for a minute. So she went in and snagged it. Before he had a chance to do anything with it. Then she hid it in her desk drawer. Now, this is obviously not proper forensic collections techniques. This is a bad chain of evidence, custody. It's all bad. So then he drank from a Coke can and actually put it in the garbage at work. And so she went and grabbed that too. She grabbed the Coke can, hid it in her desk drawer, and then texted the detective. Uh, she said, quote, and I just stood there and went, oh shit, it's game time. I'm like, this is the jackpot. And so this time my heart was like, oh, I was dying because there was a lot of people around. So I grabbed it and I like threw it in my desk drawer. She just did it like real quick. Like, Ooh, like everyone's going to go, Hey, she just took that guy's water cup. Like anyone would know or care. Um, so she met with Wagner that same day and turned over the cup and the can to him. She later, when asked, why the fuck did you do this on your, of your own accord? She said, I felt a basic human moral obligation to help by this time. I felt like if Tim was involved, it needed to be found out. Yeah. Fair. How about that? She's eventually is the boss of the man who showed her how fucking dangerous the world is. She's a supervisor. She's not technically his direct supervisor. She's a supervisor in the company, but still that's a huge coincidence. It's crazy. And the guy calls her woman, woman, a woman, uh, DNA here from the cup and the can. They match Yahtzee, the profile. Yeah. They match. Uh, the chance they would basically that it's not him is one in 11 quadrillion. That's a lot. That's a lot. There's no, never will be a quadrillion people living on this earth that have ever lived on this earth. It'll never happen. It's a lot. Um, it's a lot. Um, this is, it's interesting. Um, now this, there's also shit here that there's another collection, DNA collection story from this time here because later on, obviously Tim's lawyers are going to attack this. Of course. And, uh, there was Seattle detectives working in 82 cold curse, a cold case murder of a 13 year old girl wanted some DNA. So they invented a fake law firm, sent the guy a letter inviting him to join a fictitious clash, that class action lawsuit. He signed the enclosed form, lick the envelope, mailed it back. They got his DNA, matched it and convicted him. And the court said that was fine. I mean, if you're allowed to do operation fist, yeah, that one was great bonus episode. We did where you tell all these people you want tickets to the football game and they all show up and you go, Hey, you're a winner. And then you get everyone in a room with balloons and they're all excited. And then you, and you send in shit loads of cops and they all go in with their shotguns and arrest everybody sitting there. What was the balloon? The double winner meant he's a, he's a double winner meant he had, he was armed. Yeah. Everybody got a balloon, but if you had, they give everyone a balloon, but if you had, a gun, they would, cause they would hug the guy and feel for a gun. Funniest God did thing I've ever heard. He go, he's a double winner. And they give him an extra balloon and he go, I'm a double winner. And that meant, you know, really keep an eye on him. Keep one train that his fucking skull is what that meant. Hilarious. Now imagine having a gun on your waist and carrying a balloon. That's amazing. Unbelievable. Now the thing is April of 2018, which is just months later, cause this is in December of 2017 is when the golden state killer gets arrested and blows up the whole genetic DNA thing. So he would have gotten caught anyway. Even if, even if they didn't collect a cup a year from then, they would have got him on genetic databases and he would have been fucked. So it doesn't matter. December 12th, 2017, he's arrested at the bakery. No standoff, no chase, just a chubby 50 year old bakery delivery man. Put in handcuffs. That's it. Um, it's wild shit. So he's arrested, charged with a first degree felony murder predicated on rape and kidnapping. That's not good charges. Yeah. Bad charges. This gets done. The sheriff gets to call Mary on her 81st birthday to tell her they finally got the guy. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Um, she said that she was a, said it was a great birthday present. They also called the old sheriff who got voted out. Who's retired to Arizona. We did it. That's it. Hey, we did it stupid. Yeah. Um, so yeah, they say this is a big deal. And, uh, he said it was one of the best moments of my professional career when we got to inform her mother that we were making an arrest. Uh, I think this is about the biggest case ever in Whatcom County. Our detectives have done just a phenomenal job. It only took them 30 years. They did a bang up job guys. And Kim really did, did the work. Yeah. Kim did the work of, are they on brother? I mean, not the mother. So then they searched the house as well. Um, you know, in Everson, the house he lives when in with his wife, uh, but they were unable to locate any, uh, they didn't unable to locate the sweat pants that Mandy was wearing. Like she'd kept them for 30 fucking years. Um, in the interrogation, he has, he's completely flat affect. They said totally flat, not pissed, not yelling, not anything just sitting there. No. Oh, let's get this over with and clear. This up just flat. Um, the one guy, uh, the, the detective bow way said that you could tell he was like auditing his own shit. Like I went through all these measures to keep my DNA from you. How did, what happened? How'd you get it? Um, uh, so he really switched the whole thing because at one point they said, detective said, I'm questioning him on like, well, did you have any relationship with her? And he's saying, no, I'm going. So did you even, did you even kiss her or anything? And he's saying no. And then I say, then why would your DNA be inside her? Right. How'd that happen? And then he went from denial to how did you get my DNA? And what are you talking about? So he went to there and see what they know. Then he said we had a secret relationship. Then he brought up, we actually had a secret sexual relationship and I didn't ever bring it up because I was dating my wife at the time and all this type of shit. By the way, the wife said that he made them move the wedding up three months to January. Why did he do that? He insisted on it. And then they moved right after that. Um, so he says in the interrogation, Tim, everything I've said is the truth. He said it was more of a friendship type thing. We just talked. Then it just kind of grew into more of a physical thing and we didn't even really do it that much. It was just more kissing and stuff. Okay. So they were saying, okay, well, what was she studying at central? What were her interests and hobbies? Tell me about her life. Tell me what she would want to know about her. And he had no answer. No answer. He didn't know her. A guy that fucks a woman or kisses a woman knows at least something about that woman. Like she's not going to tell him everything ad nauseum in detail. He's just trying to get in her pants. Yeah. He would have heard it all. So no, um, no witness had ever seen them together, even in a small town. Then there's jail visits from Tom and mom here, which is even better. Uh, Tom later on would testify quote, He said the cops are lying. He held up a handwritten letter. note for them to see so it wouldn't get recorded yeah he said the cops are lying everyone is out to get him everyone is lying he said they're going to kill me in here and the main point of it is i need a strong alibi or i'm going to prison he said hey mom maybe you can say that we were christmas shopping tom do whatever you can do saying hey there's our couple other other guys that we knew in high school can you get them to say that they fucked mandy too and you say you fucked mandy so then like everybody fucked mandy so fucking there's not a big deal you know and he said no i'm not doing that and tom tells his mother that why would he ask us to lie for him if he didn't do this what are you doing here uh i don't get it and the prosecutor later said that you know that caused a break in tom's relationship with tim and tom replied that this incident was the start of it and indicated that he stopped visiting his brother in jail shortly after yeah 2018 mandy's dad glenn dies and he got to see the guy get arrested yeah 2018 also there's drone footage from the old bass house on strand road and clipper they positioned the drone outside of bass's upstairs front bedroom window to show the what his view of strand road would have been and another detective with a dog jogged by to see if it's visible and it's clearly visible on the footage that you can see from his window exactly when she comes in and he's like oh my god i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die i'm gonna die he comes in and goes he wants to suppress the dna results arguing that kim wagner acted as a state agent when she collected the cup um but the court denies that and says wagner came up with the idea to search and detective boway did not direct entice or act as an instigator of ms wagner's search she's just really into it um so yeah that's a big deal they really want to do that uh they keep going what were your exact text messages back and forth yeah there's also dueling experts this is a this is interesting this is all based on the number of sperm um the doctor goldfogel said that he viewed the slides and saw sperm meaning that were alive enough that had to have happened the sex within 12 hours of her dying he said but then he i guess he did it under a hundred times magnification which another lady did it under 400 times magnification um and we'll talk about what happened there um tim's refusal to take the dna results arguing that kim wagner was dead and that the dna test will be excluded from trial okay uh there's a defense expert is forensic biologist dr elizabeth johnson she independently analyzes the sperm samples as well or dna she concluded that under proper 400 times magnification the relatively few sperm on the vaginal swab slides indicated it was more likely that intercourse occurred 24 to 48 hours before she was dead oh so she's saying no that was actually less sperm dr johnson believes that the sperm count on the slides was quote not consistent with intercourse and then immediate death okay the defense wants to use mandy's diary against her what's her time they want to say uh well they basically um in the diary she wrote at some point she wrote all time in it but months earlier had wrote about struggles with depression self-esteem you know freshman in college shit so i'm gonna rape and murder myself yeah and that she thought about suicide at one point so what so is that is she gonna get herself naked rape herself and throw herself in the river that's the suicide i'm 45 i think about it every goddamn day oh i mean it's it's it's kind of like uh like longingly almost uh i saw obsession and she just she describes what it would be like to die like to like lay in bed and slit your wrists and i was just like what a fucking lovely night fucking great everybody don't kill yourselves please just based on this let's not do that uh the stress and and and overwhelming dread of daily life is just it's it's a nightmare sometimes but tell me about it we gotta we gotta deal with life yeah that's life we'll talk about other people's deaths yeah so they said between the last june 89 entry in which she recounted feelings of depression and her november 89 entry in which she recounted feelings of depression and her november 89 death she wrote in between that with a lot of enthusiasm about college life upcoming travel get togethers with friends family events yeah not suicidal in addition none of the entries ever discuss a plan or intent to act on feelings of suicidality depression she's being a dramatic teenager and that's what they said the judge described it as simply representing teen angst sure same shit um also he says there's a lack of evidence of kidnapping and rape yeah um yeah he's saying you don't have evidence you don't have evidence at the because he's saying his experts saying that the rape was days before yeah days before and all that kind of shit so um but she said also that um the afternoon she died she returned to plan to return from her run because basically she's saying he's saying okay i had sex with her but it was like the day before whatever yeah but they're like well she was with her family the entire thanksgiving day so it's impossible how'd you do yeah was your dick hidden in the turkey what would happen like that didn't happen there um it just didn't happen and they said that it was unlikely that she met bass and had consensual sex with him out while out on a run right before she was going to go out on what was a set what was ostensibly a date with another guy so it's weird and the the that story is implausible anyway because then what she's found in a river and the dog comes home terrified thank you what's the what's he trying to say happened he's missing a part of that one he also argues there was no vaginal wounds to support the assertion that she was a victim of sexual assault however the doctor says that based on literature and his own experience men examining more than 100 sexual assault victims it is more common to not find external or internal injuries than to find the injuries yeah yeah he probably had a he probably had a little dick this guy too right it's like a little dick that's probably a tiny dick so he's probably had a little dick this guy too right probably a tiny dick so he's probably had a little dick this guy too right it's like a little dick probably a tiny dick the lack of such wounds doesn't negate the fact that she was raped it just doesn't um so uh there's all sorts of shit also march 2019 right before the trial gina divorces tim as well oh so he's on his own now the jury is seated it consists of 12 jurors um they say eight when and eight men and four women uh jury selection was really difficult because everybody have you heard of the most famous thing that's ever happened to you happened in this town no weird so i mean every time anybody comes home they see their deadbolt and they remember yeah that's what happened the prosecutor david mckeachrin mckeachrin was retired and after 44 years and came back as lead prosecutor just to handle this case because he was it was like his whole career basically he said the evidence will show that mandy was abducted we know that she did not cross highway 9 we know that she was on her way home we know she had some scratches on her arms and legs and she was on her way home and she was on her way home and she was on her way through uh and as though she'd been running through the brush she had an injury to her head the defendant's dna was inside her we know she was kidnapped we know she was raped and then killed we know that he wanted his brother to say that he himself had sex with her to make her look like a loose girl and he wanted an alibi these things are all critical when you're trying to put together a puzzle of what happened the evidence is very very clear this was not a situation where there was consensual sex there was no contact between these people she was abducted she was raped and she was killed i had no idea what was going on and i had no idea what was going on i asked you to hold him accountable for what he did which is an atrocious thing wow um his defense is someone else abducted and raped her really just someone else that's it um the defense attorney says for 30 years that's how law enforcement investigated this case is that semen donor is that the semen donor must be the killer that's the fundamental error in this case that's how you that's how you figure out rape murders is what yeah that is he said what happened here is a big question mark this case is a big question mark this case is a big question mark this case is a big mystery we don't know anything okay um by the way the mary testifies she's in her 80s so they told her when the jury comes in you don't have to stand up like everyone you can sit and she stood up anyway she said if everyone else is standing i think i'll stand too she felt weird um she testified about everything kim wagner testified gina malone his now ex-wife testifies uh about all the shit that's bad about asking the mother to say the dead father did it uh tim or tom uh testifies he says i guess to make it look like she got around that that would be my only you know that's probably why he said it meaning asking to say he fucked her too and then he asked me again he said you believe me right i didn't know what to say and then he said after tim was arrested he just said i need a strong alibi or i'm going to prison uh they bring in the defense expert who says if you magnify better it makes it completely the whole thing completely different the defense closing is quote it's easy to make the assumption that this pretty young woman would never have anything to do with mr bass look at him he's gross uh but just because someone hadn't seen them together doesn't mean they had hadn't been together at some point this is a an investigation based on the faulty assumption that this is a sexual assault and it may not well have been a sexual assault so the verdict somehow now it's six men and six women i don't know if they people left the alternates came in they had to deliberate for over a day jesus one juror said when we go in to deliberate we had to turn in and attorneys, too, and we went through everything. We had posters on the wall and maps, and we went through everything just like the attorney did. One juror estimated maybe a quarter of the panel thought there was reasonable doubt when they first got into the room. One juror said teenage girls can sneak out at night. Maybe there was a secret relationship. She snuck out Thanksgiving night, the night before. But the jury comes back, and they find him guilty. And returning special verdict forms, finding he committed first-degree rape and attempted rape and first-degree kidnapping and attempted kidnapping over the course of a murder. Prosecutor says, maximum, please, for this fucking guy. The maximum, he's going by 1989 sentencing standards, by the way, because that's how it has to be, which are much less. The maximum is just under 27 years for this. Is that right? That's it. And the minimum sentence is 20 years, which is what they ask for at the defense. Impact statements. Jesus Christ. I mean, can you imagine? I mean, it's ridiculous. They're coming in saying how much they loved her. And, you know, the stepsister even said, except for our biology, you know, she's my sister. 30 years of anguish. Poor Rick Zender there. The boyfriend comes in, and he brought some letters that they had written to each other from college back and forth. And he said that he's ashamed that he hasn't kept in better touch with the family, but he said it was too painful after her death to keep in really close touch with them. And you feel like you're a suspect. That, too. He said the nightmares came immediately. The worst part isn't dreaming that she's alive, but dreaming that she's dead. Because for those few moments in transition, as I open my eyes, there's hope. Her death was just a nightmare, but she's really gone. The defense, though, mom comes up there. Tim's mom comes up there and says that he's a good kid. He never had. He never fucking did anything bad. He had good grades in school, never gave anybody any problems. She said he was found guilty in people's minds way before the trial even started and being sent and is being sent to prison on people's emotions. Not any real evidence. Mom, the prosecution wants to solve this case, even if they convict an innocent person. Meanwhile, meanwhile, fucking Tom was testifying against him and is completely thinks he's guilty. And Tim tried to besmirch your dead husband, lady. Yeah, she's doesn't give a fuck. Wow. Tim. He speaks. He says, first of all, he comes up with 10 pages of shit. And the judge says, one page. We're not doing 10. Pick one out and do it. I'm not listening to you for 45 minutes. Get the fuck out of here. He said, I would first like to say that I am 100 percent innocent of this crime. Furthermore, I don't believe I received a fair trial. I'm saying that, though, a better man in me says I should be a very little. I should say very little today and give this day to the Stavik family. Sorry. But then he goes on and says he loved his father. They were best friends. But things haven't been the same since his father died in a four wheeling accident in 2002. Hunting rivers, four wheeling accidents. This place is crazy. He said he gave the eulogy at his father's funeral and wrote the obituary and made a memorial to him in his garage. So what? Who cares? Yeah. He said this ex-wife to testify against him. You know, he said. It's hard to take. He said he's never been arrested. He's been gainfully employed. He doesn't drink. He doesn't use drugs. He's been married for nearly 30 years and raised three children, two of which with disabilities. He's a delivery driver. He's a good guy. He said I tried. He said he's been in jail since his arrest. He said I tried to be respectful and kind in my year and a half that I've been there. And that's very hard to do when you're being accused of something like this. I'll continue to be this way as it's just the way I am. I wish no ill will toward. Anyone here, not even today, but I am having a hard time with this. Okay. So they took a 20 minute break and then the judge said, quote, for 30 years, you have lived free from the responsibility of your acts. But that life has been a lie. And tragically, it has caught your family, your mother, your brother, your ex-wife and your children in its web. You, sir, may fuck off just under 27 years. The absolute maximum he could get. The prosecutor said I'd never seen a case that had an impact. Like this one did. People felt like they didn't have a sense of safety. It was the realization that we're not all that safe and that there's a monster who is really living among us. So the 27 years, like I said, it's a sentencing thing. It's so he could actually. He was only 52 at sentencing. He actually could get out. Even if he does 27, he'd be 79. Right. That's possible. So they, by the way, they 48 hours talk to his wife, Gina. And they said, Tim says he's an innocent man. What do you say? Gina said, quote, guilty as hell. I lived in prison for 28 years with him. And now it's his turn. Ah, that's what she said. Yep. Then there's the other thing. Tom says he wonders if his brother did any other murders. Right. The big question here. And they said possibly was even going to kill those two women that met at the water park. Yeah. And Tom said, I think. Potentially more could be his next victims. So he thinks that he definitely did it. He appeals based on the co-worker being a state agent and all that, all that stuff. There was a hiccup in the middle of that one. And there's all these different legal strategy than the Miller test and all this stuff that we have no time to get into. But they do tell him to go fuck himself on appeal. So that's nice there. He's told to go fuck himself. He says you shouldn't have excluded the diary. And they're like, you're out of your fucking mind. Lack of evidence of kidnapping and rape. They're like, no, there was plenty of evidence. Lots of right. Yeah. In 2025, there was an episode of Murdered at First Sight called Unforgetten or Unforgotten Mandy Stavik. And there's also, you know, 48 Hours did one and a couple other things. There's a scholarship fund that's been set up in her name at Mount Baker High. She's buried at the St. Joseph. Mission Cemetery in Clipper, U.S. In Clipper, Washington. Tim is at the Airway Heights Correction Center outside Spokane. And so he's got 320 months is what it is. That's what he's got. Appeals are exhausted. And as of the state Supreme Court's denial, the conviction stands. And there you go. Late earliest release date is 79. I think he has to do all of it. That's part of it. They said he's under, quote, close coverage. He's under custody, meaning he has more supervision and less freedom of movement and limits on personal property and programs he can attend, according to the DOC spokesman. Sit here and fucking rot. They're taking a dead series with him. Oh, yeah. Fuck this guy. Everyone's bad at the fuck this guy. So there you go, everybody. That is Acme, Washington and fucking crazy goddamn cold case of a story. Last year, it just seemed like we needed that kind of case this week, a weird cold case and everything. But terrible fucking story. Goddamn awful. It's horrible. If you liked it, though. Yeah, it's I know. If you liked it, though, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you are listening to and give us five stars because it really helps drive us up the charts. Netflix thumbs up. Please. They help a lot. So hit us up with those. Thank you for doing that. Listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions, which are just fucking funny. So check them out. You don't have to like sports to listen to crime and sports. We promise. So check that out. Definitely head over to shut up and give me murder dot com. Get everything there. Merchandise tickets to live shows. September the 18th. Pabst Theater in Milwaukee. Awesome place. 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