Personal Agents in Ecom

Right now I've got a autonomous routine and claw that runs every Monday and checks my Facebook ads. I've kind of stopped using that Mac mini so much myself, I just left it to it. I've turned off the AI in comms there because they kind of compete with one another and it kind of just does it better anyway, bad actors are just going to be like we know that six out of ten businesses are probably using AI agents. It's pretty wild. Alright, welcome to the Underdog e-Com Podcast where two e-Com brand founders are figuring out in real time. Yeah, we're not here to preach, we're here in the thick of it making mistakes, testing all sorts of ideas and really sharing the journey of how we've been growing these brands from day zero. Hopefully you learn a little bit, perhaps come away with some ideas that save you time in money and so if you're tired of the same glittery D2C advice from those nine figure gurus, we're here in the right place. Let's get into it. Okay, we're back underdog e-Com. Here we go. I think we're past episode 50 at this point and it's been approximately seven days since we mentioned the keyword AI and so we're back here to talk about it again. I'm excited for this. I've actually got a special delivery coming today, a little Mac mini and so basically today we're going to dig into personal agents, what that is, what people are doing with it. Just build out one, I'm excited to dig into this and build out one for myself and my brand. So hey, Jack, how you doing? Good. I'm good. Yeah, I'm excited for this one as well. I think we've just gone into time suddenly where AI can do suddenly so much and all those things that you thought were a bit out of reach are suddenly you can do and it's pretty cool. So yeah, I'm excited about this one. Limitless. It feels like that movie that I never actually saw but we've all got the pill or what's the, there's people that'll trendy people online, they like red pill, there's not, I don't know, I think that's a matrix or offense. But it's crazy. Yeah, just anything. And so setting up, I've, I've been running agents for a while on my computer and I've got a MacBook Pro and it's pretty fancy pants and it does a lot but I've been building various bits of software and so it's basically been under siege for the last couple of months and I've been got, it's been maxed out, I've only got 24 gigs of RAM on it. It's a year-to-old, I'm three or something and I am building an iOS and Android app and so those are real big hogs. So in addition to using this Mac mini for the personal agent size of things, I'm definitely going to use it as a software dev as well for building the various things that I'm working on. So it'll be pretty sweet. I'm intrigued. So I don't know, Jack, maybe you want to kick it off and talk about what you've been, because you've, you teased this to me a couple months ago. This is why this is so cool, he teased this to me a couple of months ago. It was his Hermes, Agen, his in all his stuff, doing all his things and it's so nice because I feel like it abstracts the busy work out in a lot of ways and you can set up systems and stuff. I have had a VA for a couple of years that helps my business part time and have always felt like I could hire a full-time VA and should hire a full-time VA because she was just part-time and so she, it's perfect timing actually. She's just left my company, basically, was maxed out on hours and had to go quit. And so this is like the crossroads on that, or it's like, all right, time to probably replace her and then some with a computer that can do things. Hello, bot. Hello, how? So that's where I'm at. Yeah, that's really cool. I think, yeah, I say the right time. To be honest, I got a Mac Mini, it's an M4, 24 gigabyte Mac Mini, back in, actually back in March. Yeah, so a while ago, I remember. March or April or something like that. And I got it just affirmed when minis were super cheap, they've gone up a lot now, but I got them. Got it super cheap. Was it under a thousand? It was, yeah, it was under 600 pounds, TB pounds, which is probably $800, 700. Geez. Yeah, yeah. And so 24 gigabytes of RAM, more RAM that's in my MacBook's, my 16 gigabyte and I feel that a lot, actually, when I'm swapping between codecs and Claude and then Chrome and then Photoshop and like, seven thousand pounds and Chrome. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that, so I was like partly as I, I'm hitting the limit on my Mac and then also I was kind of getting interested. This went open-claw and stuff was more, and I actually never installed open-claw because I was thinking about doing it. But then I was like, I saw, Hermes was also around at the same time and I was just kind of getting started with it all and I was also just kind of building a lot of the AI stuff I was doing there in on the Mac Mini, giving it a separate from my MacBook and just remotely into it or SSH into it and then, yeah, that was what I was doing. I'm just kind of learning. I knew I think about any of this. So, and it's got, it's got easier and easier every time because there's more and more people doing this stuff and a lot of it's not much easier to remote access and all this sort of stuff. But anyway, yeah, I think we're all, a lot of many of us sort of operators or very small teams and so this has a real big impact, I think, on us specifically. I think it's easier for us to implement as well because we're not trying to diffuse it across 50 or 100 people, which I think is a whole other challenge, right? How do you get? I've heard about companies buying minis for each of their employees, but it's like, how many of them are actually going to do something with it is also the question. Whereas you and I kind of just get stuck in and it's a lot of fun. But anyway, yeah. So I don't think what I started with, I started with, this is before, a lot of like the browser access was available, so a lot before models were very good actually using browsers, so there was a lot of them with MCP stuff. So I would, I linked it up to everything that had MCP piece like Clavio Shopify and I start off with just getting reports and edit slack. I was the first thing I did, I had it in slack and that's the way I've always communicated with Hermes. I know you can do it in terminal, you can also do it through maybe through iMessage, but I just, I'm in slack anyway and I thought my team, I've got a couple of people work for me, so they're in slack, so I thought I could have it there. And so I had it originally for myself and then just linked it up into certain projects I wanted to have access to and that was it to begin with and that was pretty good. But so it's all just kind of been building up so over time. So I've got it, yeah, I've got it linked up to all of Hansh's financial stuff in sense of not only read access, but read access to Finelope, to into Shopify, into Clavio, into Amazon, into all this different stuff, so I can get a clear picture of where things are and it kind of just reports on the stuff like that and that's kind of fairly simple, but the other thing I've done as well is I built, I've spoken about this a few times, I've got a think of groundwork which is essentially just project management thing that I built for my team to manage all the emails and things and it pulls through Clavio campaigns and how they're doing and also briefs are in there and statuses and all that sort of stuff, comments. And then now, the last few months I've had an MCP for that, so now that goes into Hermes and Hermes can, the Hermesation I've got is called kit and so kit can go into groundwork on its own accord, it can get just of all the different things that are happening there in terms of different emails, if anything's due or anything like that and it can also create briefs, it can change statuses of a task, it can assign a task to somebody, it can let me know if a task is stuck, if I've forgotten about something, it can notify others as well and it's in the channels in Slack as well, so it can go in and check and do things like that without me having to do anything, originally you set up with just a cron job, but now it just does it on its own without even that, so that's really cool, that's been really helpful because then tasks and things are now kind of being monitored and as Astra came out and things like that and there's all this now it could go into browsers and use the Chrome on my Mac mini and do all this sort of stuff, and I've been able to actually do a lot more because it can now even things that don't have MCP access, it can then go and do them, so that's been pretty cool as well. And I really got, as we saw, say mues come out and things like that and instincts, I kind of realized like well Hermes can actually do all of that, there's nothing that any of those, the only thing that mues has got is access into Instagram and it's got this, you can buy things for you, I haven't given Hermes the ability to buy anything for me, it's actually possible, but I just don't feel like I need to make that many transactions, all these small transactions why I would give to it, where I would make sense, but yeah, so that's the main thing I think is being able to go and just perform tasks for me in the browser and basically I've kind of stopped using that Mac mini so much myself and just left it to it, so it's almost like its own, signed in on its own profiles, the other things I set up with an agent email, I'm trying to remember the name of the provider I use for that and to give it its own agent email address but it can log in to stuff that's got one password access, it can log in to different things. The only thing I'd say in terms of actual workflows, it can, when we have return requests in Shopify, I've set up so that it can go in Shopify, create the return label there, accept the return, go into create the return label there and then it will just get sense of the customer. The only thing that sometimes happens is Shopify will make them do lots of authentication and so if it's not logged in recently, then that can cause a problem because it's not very good at authenticating itself through one password and I've figured that one out yet, but that's pretty cool and then also international orders, we do quite a lot of international orders, it can just go in and buy the labels in Shopify because our warehouse buys the international labels through Shopify even though we ship station for US and that's because the international labels ship DDP and we can get cheap DDP labels through Shopify and so it's easy to ship internationally whereas it'd be more expensive through ship station and so it just goes in and buys the labels and then it has access to our warehouse as well I've got to mention that so it can go in there and it can, it can attach labels in, it can check on order statuses and the last thing as well is customer service so I have kit as a agent in customer service and it can respond to customer service. customers and usually if it's like where's my order, it can go into the warehouse, it can see if that's been picked or parked, it can let them out, it's going out today or you can see if there's a tracking number in Shopify or in the warehouse or if there's a replacement we'd send a customer because it's lost or whatever, it can go and create that replacement so it checks their order and I've actually turned off the AI and comes there because they kind of compete with one another and it kind of just does it better anyway and it has access to all these tools. So yeah, I think that's been really cool as well. Just informing those kind of mundane which will actions as being really helpful. That's so interesting. I was curious about the Comslayer versus the Comslayer AI because I've got that going on my store front and it does pretty well and I've found that auditing it and improving a lot of the product, the docs and protocols or whatever they are called procedures. The cloud is super helpful but because your AI is everywhere it sounds like that's much more effective. Is it just a user account that it logs in with into Comslayer? It's basically like a person kind of thing. It's like a person. I don't have to be careful because it's not a person right and I don't want people thinking it's a person and I have to be careful with that. When I first set it up it was replying on behalf of me and I was like that's not working well. So I was like need to sort this out somehow but yeah I gave it its own account basically just acts as a normal user would and nicely but Comslayer doesn't charge you per user so yeah. Oh yeah nice. Love the non-perseete. Yeah, because that's like way too common. That's how gosh that's so interesting. There's so many pieces to pull on there and I think having the glue that kind of there's so much ops that we do and there's so much sounds like it's very much project manager. There's so much project manager and there's so much like executive assistant kind of things that it can do. I'm really excited. Basically I use Hey for email for example I use base camp for project management and so using the CLI tools and getting it access to all these things where I'm sometimes right now there's a huge change back and forth between me and a B2B person for example and I just have I go into the CLI and like hey summarize this give me a draft email of what's going on what needs to happen because there's too much back and forth I can't track all of this and having someone that can monitor those emails go into base camp and update things go into I use settle for a lot of PO type stuff and they're slowly really not the API and MCP which is good because I was on the verge of building my own to replace it that has agent access because it's like if you run a SAS nowadays you have to have agent access there has to be an MCP and API because there's so many things especially for a lot of these ops things and especially for brands that are tiny like us where it's like I'm not going to I don't have time to manage and babysit all these POs in Shopify in settle and stuff and get all the records updated and everything like that's actually one of my tasks for today is I need to reconcile all these emails back and forth that I've had with Finaloop about a lot of the POs that are in the different systems and what's been paid and what's not and what's and it's gosh it's a lot to try and just sift through so it'll be I'm really excited to have someone that will sit in someone having an AI bot that'll sit in and be able to track all that and basically babysit it in some ways and manage it yeah and I think one thing I haven't worked out and I think maybe you'll I'm sure you'll work this out better than me is is how you have this this knowledge across all these areas while also sandboxing some things so they're not for example I don't want the fat lady can access Finaloop or whatever I don't want that ever leaching in customer conversation because they prompted it in the right way or whatever right if somebody were to figure out that it was responding to some customer things it could they could potentially ask it to give details that it might give so I try to really hard to sandbox some things but you have to be careful because you also want that your it's also nice actually having one agent versus many because then you just ask it everything and it's got context across all these different things whereas a customer support agent will only know about that and actually there might be you've got to make sure you ask the right agent and go to me and the way you like that hierarchy I haven't worked out yet but what I've done at the beginning is really trying sandbox them out with different profiles and give access only to certain things or some of them and that's been kind of the best way I think but there's also one there's also a time where you just want it to know everything and so pull through emails as well as the PO from from settle for example and then figure things out for you whereas and it needs access to a lot of stuff and knowledge across those things to do that I think I disagree I don't think that there should be in my mind specifically I've been thinking about this for a coding setup for example I'm going to have a senior dev that's in charge of running the projects and currently what I do is I have one agent that's the orchestrator running different sub agents and all the different features and they're reviewing each feature and then the orchestrators passing context between the two I've also set up what I call a librarian so I have multiple projects that are under one one main project for example my iTemo has a website a larval backend an android app and an ios app and so I've got a librarian set up and each different project folder and I tell the agent that's in android for example go talk to the librarian figure out what the backend is actually doing and hit those APIs accurately and I have docs that are provide context as much as possible throughout the different apps and different project folders in markdown but it's I think more helpful to have the agents talk to each other and so I think you're totally right that the big danger with all of this is the cross-pollination and getting like a customer could game that if they know what they're doing and they're really good at what they're doing they could probably figure it out and do it and I've even setting up guardrails even setting up instructions of like don't do this I've seen yeah I've seen them just burn that bridge so many times like weekly almost where it's like I told you not to do this specific thing in code it's in your instructions not to do this and you still did it and so there's a lot of dev security around AI in the dev software engineering world where it's like get don't ever let them touch your production database for example they should have read only access they're token it's not that you tell them not to write to it it's that you don't allow them that API token to even write it yeah it's like they only read only and so it's tricky because like you want them to be able to change things and do that it's like this balancing act where you're like you want them to do all these different things but you also need to have guardrails on because at the end of the day they do make a fair amount of mistakes and yeah I wasn't saying yeah I'm you're right I think you're right and I think the the only thing I think I was you right and I think with everything about people the person even you wouldn't give your customer service person like unlimited access to your bank account right I mean the different people in organization they have different yeah it's that context that you want to share I guess and that's how you share certain bits information and it's hard but yeah you said with customers they're as customers that can game it but I think the bigger risk is more more as it's more generally going to be normal for AI agents to be doing stuff on behalf of businesses I think bad actors are just going to randomly prompt prompt inject send requests see what's what what hits the wall and sticks I think that's more likely what's going to happen I think customers might get better at gaming it the same way customers now with refund requests might just ask their captain dot to do it for them and then you're battling with an AI that's never going to yeah but they might game it to an extent they might be like oh if it's an AI agent maybe I can get a full refund if I write in the right way whatever that's possible but I feel like it's more like you said the bad actors are just going to be like we know that six out of 10 businesses are probably using AI agents on certain bits of these things so we can probably get we can probably mind a lot of stuff without them even knowing oh yeah totally I think yesterday was interesting because yesterday was a huge day in the software engineering web dev world because PHP had a massive security vulnerability that it and PHP runs 40% of the internet and then also railway one of the biggest vibe coding slot wear type sasses out there had a huge security thing meltdown where they had to basically freeze everyone's websites for 12 hours or something I can't remember the actual time frame and so I think right now it feels like at least in that dev world really kind of in the golden age of build whatever you want wherever you want anytime you're not you have no restrictions is just token limits and there will be there'll be a lot of catch up that will happen with the bad actors with the fraudulent type folks with so I think cyber security in the next year so it's going to be even more important and I think it's like what if someone I'm just thinking through examples what if they combed your about page and tools your CX bot that's like hey I'm Jack I'm the founder I don't have access to my email right now give me your PNL or do all these refunds or whatever so I think in my mind when it comes to sending out the agents it's hard because this would be so much more work to set up one CX agent and one Ops agent and one CTO one CFO but and then have them communicate as necessary between and I don't think that's is there's probably a lot better guardrails and stuff in systems out there that people have implemented to prevent because there's still someone could go to the CX agent be like yo talk and try and get these details and maybe it's like oh okay sure I'll go get those details from the CFO so I don't know what the right answer is but it is tricky and then there's also the question of context I don't know if you've set up any context memory type systems but I'm thinking I need to research that a little bit more and set up I don't know if it's pure markdown because that's kind of right now I've got a autonomous routine and claw that runs every Monday and checks my Facebook ads and then it also cross references the last weeks and has everything saved in the markdown file that's sort of like a database memory of what's done well what hasn't done well so cross reference what are our target goals for the different numbers and stuff and And so, having some sort of perpetual memory system, I think would be helpful, especially as we onboard these personal agents into more executive type rules. I have one that's going to be a CTO in charge of all my coding projects, or I have one that's in charge of my financials, because I have been asking a lot of questions that are like, look at the P&L over the last 12 months, analyze what we can do better. Last week we talked about digging through my BFCM strategy for last year, and so that was a cloud prompt, basically, to analyze the offers, analyze the profitability, contribution margin, all these types of things. And so, yeah, I think there needs to be. And I know that there's different sasses out there that do this. There's HQ, for example, the trendy one that everyone in DDC talks about. But as a developer, I'm not going to subscribe to another SaaS platform. I'm going to try and DIY it as much as I can, I think, or at least start small and build, I think. Yeah. I see from there on the head with both those things, I think. Yeah, I don't know, for example, with Hermes, as far as I'm aware, you can have profiles, and that's how I've done it. So you have profiles that support, support profile, which only, theory only has access to certain tools, right? But I don't think you can have, you can actually, apart from profiles, I don't think you can literally have several Hermes installs on your own. Instances? Yeah. Yeah, like instances on the One Mac Mini. I think you can, if you had different on your Mac, if you had profile one, profile two and you've logged out and went into that one, but I don't know how that works. In some ways and other, it's still there, they're still together in a way, like, I don't know how segmented the profiles really are. But yeah, and then the other thing is on shared context. I haven't figured that out either. I think most people have spoken to just have it with GitHub, basically, back and forth being like, and then, and I've done that to an extent. I don't know if that really, I mean, I think HQ is, is more like skills as well and making sure they link into the actual, into, into Claude and, and to chat, and to codex and things like that. And like, that's the more, but I think it shouldn't be, if it shouldn't be that difficult to build, right? And since, yeah, I don't, I don't think, I think, I think it's packaged well, and so most people will use it because they'd rather not work, try and work it out themselves, but I'm sure it's doable. But I do think, I know, it depends also on how much you want it to be local versus in the cloud. That's a whole other thing as well. It's not just the models themselves, but how much do you want local information on your Mac Mini and how much do you want that sense of cloud? And would you want, when you're on your laptop, do you want to still have to access all of that from your, from your laptop and have all that same context and then with your using? And then that's the whole of the question as well. But yeah. Um, I'm curious. So I think of one of the hardest questions about all of this and I don't know if it's really possible to understand or dig through until you're actually in the weeds building it. But it's like, where do you start? I've got CLI, I've got all the CLI's installed. I talked to the CLI's all the time on my local machine. And I'm guessing it's kind of similar. It's on the new Mac Mini. You set up Hermes and you just, you then you give it access to things and it's just kind of the interaction models, the CLI unless you set up something else or does it have sort of like an interface? It is literally just in the terminal and as you said, it's linking up with your Slack or there might be, you might just chat with it in bass camp, for example, you might go to you and I chat a lot through the DMs and things in bass camp. But I think you can do the same with Hermes, I reckon. Yeah. And I think about Hermes, I like, and I, I, is it self learning? So it literally, it literally, um, right sits to itself every time it does something you're like, oh, that wasn't correct or whatever it, it, you'll be saying writing to memory, self learning has that sort of skill, which is actually, I've seen quite beneficial because I've seen it, get better and better over time and it's all there and it's cons, got that, those, I've seen that work pretty well. And so I think that's a cool thing about it as well. But I, in terms of communication, I find these things chat with it in Slack, um, yeah. And I, yeah, some people like chat with it with them on their phone. Yeah. What is it? Not with WhatsApp. I'm trying to think what the name of the telegram. Telegram? Telegram. There we are. Yeah. I haven't done that, but yeah, I think that's the best way to do it and the, the only thing about messaging platforms is you're not really seeing what it's doing because it's just, I mean, it's the same way I don't if you've used chat GPT dots, have you tried that? Mm-hmm. That's actually pretty good as well. I have to say that is, I've tried them all. So I mean, I still use, all the main access I've used, I use Hermes a lot and it's got a local machine to use. It's really cool. But to be honest, you can do 99% of it with, with, with chat GPT dots. It's just that you're tied to chat GPT Open AI. I honestly hadn't even, there's so much, it's like, I don't, I've never heard of this to be honest. Dot? Yeah. So in chat GPT, it's, you, they've got, you've got a dot and it's, and you give it a name. And it can use also in my Mac mini. So it has a cloud, does a cloud computer can use. But if I would rather use my, the crow on my Mac mini, I'll just do everything on my Mac mini. And of course, chat GPT also has a tremendous amount of context and it has access to my, yeah. And it has access to Shopify as well and it has access. So it can do a huge amount. And it will just, it'll send, I guess it's just all the time saying things like, usually it's a bit like instinct or muse where we're like, oh, just heads up, you've got an email from this and it's due by tomorrow and you should probably, do you want me to go and respond to that for you? Do you want me to go and pay that for you? Whatever. I mean, that's sort of what it can do. But it can also do other things as well. It can go ahead and, it can, it can do quite a lot to be honest. So I think if anyone's, if anyone's out there and doesn't have their own Mac mini or they don't want to set, to be honest, you can do a lot with that. I think when it gets for like you in terms of coding projects and all the local projects and everything, it's a whole different story. But for say an operator who just wants to have, has a hands with different things, I think you can do a lot with charity, so you can't have individual agents who are just constantly doing something for you, I don't know, reaching out to a wholesaler or something, it's not like that. But it can do a lot in terms of just picking up tasks for you that you've forgotten about basically. With, with Hermes, do you build out skills, have built out different cloud skills for different things or it's like ingest this PO and draft out two different emails because anytime we ship a PO to a certain retailer, they want two different emails to go out and that was really annoying to do that manually and now it takes 30 seconds with a skill. And I was like, I imagine that's kind of what you do is with your personal agents like you build out all these different types of skills or maybe it's an SOP like a repo, a bunch of SOPs that it can reference and use and update as needed, I assume that's how kind of mechanics work for repeatable tasks. Yeah, I think skills obviously are important, I think the other thing as well is because it's self-learning, so before if you get a task down in theory it can just do that same task again, like creating a PDF and if you need that, creating another one as well as we've got in groundwork I was mentioning before with, I built a creator side of that in and so yeah, we work with different creators and sometimes on an ongoing basis and we pay them for content they do for us and we might use it as an ad and we have different commission levels for different creators but when we pay them, it's a bit of a hassle right because yeah, how do we account for it and stuff, so it goes, it's linked with groundwork and it literally just comes in and creates the invoice, it generates an invoice for the creator, so when the creator submits a video it just generates the invoice automatically and it will pull through all the details and it will send it to me and then I can just refer, like when we pay it we just reference that invoice, so it's like we're actually paying a real invoice sent to us and again it's that skill that it's learned and it doesn't set, the invoice looks identical every single time, so I think it can learn a lot of skills at that but I think it is important, you get each, it's almost like you've got to start small and focus on tasks that you like the big task but also something just make sure it does it absolutely correctly and then you move on to the next one, there's, I feel like I can take a month off and just build out all of this because I'm thinking through all of the PO processes and the wholesale process and some of our micro creator type processes and there's so many things that are just, we have a custom merch program where I'm making stuff for people and I'm behind on the emails back to people and man there's just unlimited potential for all these things to get more automated and just easier. I think that's almost, that can be almost the overwhelming part where it's like you said start small, make sure that the thing that works really well that you're doing the process, the procedure and then move on and I also, here's what's interesting, we've talked a lot about shiny objects on here and how that was really interesting talking to Sean, I feel like Sean was really good about avoiding shiny objects and having the horse blinders on, if you didn't hear a last pod, we talked with Sean who's a really smart operator of a seven figure sock company, that's a really really good golden nuggets for underdogs like us and I spent, after that pod a couple days ago, I spent every day thinking about it and how to apply it, I even asked Claude yesterday, it was like here's the nuts and bolts, how do I take this genius strategy stuff because he was good about keeping it simple and so I forgot where I was going, I forgot the original thought there but, oh yeah so everyone in e-commerce building their own things, everyone's replacing software, I think that's going to end in probably a year or it will curtail, I think we're in the golden age of that right now and I've been building my own platform as well for e-commerce operations and analytics, something that I use daily and replaces all these other tools and it's a SaaS so people can use it if they want or they can keep building their own and it's sometimes I question whether it's the right move to do that and we're all spending time doing that and it's like oh cool, I spent 30 hours building my own platform to do x, y and z and oh no, now I think the hidden underside cost to that is the time to maintain it and improve it and yeah, AI makes that that improvement and maintenance time go from 10 hours to one hour but still there's integrations I could break and that sort of thing and so I wonder almost there is a ton of efficiency improvement. in something like this, but I think you have to be super careful, especially solo operators, especially underdogs where a time is so valuable and we have to focus on the highest ROI. It's like, I could spend all next week building out personal agents for all this stuff, but that's probably not the best use of my time. I need to focus more on revenue. I need to focus better on more on profitability of our ads and driving more top line than optimizing personal agents and stuff. So I don't know, it's tricky. I can pretty agree. I think you've got to find the balance. I completely agree that everyone's building too much stuff. I'm building too much stuff. I mean, I try not to. By the way, I've just started using Yuka. It's the TikTok shop and outreach platform. It's actually amazing. I've struggled with TikTok shop and I'm not no endorsement or anything. I'm actually really surprised that it's working out pretty well. But I would never try and build that because, first of all, they've got the direct integration with TikTok and pulling through all the, I mean, I can't imagine ever trying to build that. It's just too difficult, right? So that's a tool where I'm just not going to bother, but I feel like there's some things where there's some things where you're just, if it's feature you need doesn't exist, I kind of feel like, well, also a lot of this stuff nowadays, you can start a project while you're working and you can kind of pick it up on your phone later, have it keep working on it. There's some things that are worth it and some things that aren't. And I agree. Maintenance of stuff is a lot and for brands, I mean, we're doing, I think for brands, it's not, it's not worth it because what you really to be doing is focusing on just selling more product at the end of the day. And even with customer service, I'm not replaced. I got a customer service person because I was doing a lot of it myself and that agent is not replacing her. It's just, I do, it's just making everything faster, hopefully. She still goes in and checks those tickets and makes sure that it has been answered correctly and will make sure, and if it isn't, I have a go in and she'll let me know and also will fix whatever it said so it doesn't happen again or things like that and all those questions where the AI just hands it straight to her because it's not a question it feels it can solve. And so I don't see it, I don't see it as something that, I don't know, I think placing everything or certain tools you still need to pay for and I think you shouldn't be as a brand thinking that you're going to become profitable because you're not paying so much sass. There is a time where you and I both probably think we paid for too much sass products, I think. But yeah, but I don't know if AI hundreds and souls that I think what it ends up coming down to is you need to focus on some more product. And if there's tools that help you do that, then fine. Or if you want to build something that helps you do, do build some more product, then great. But yeah, or just make, yeah, I think that's the main thing lens look at it through. Yeah, basically the biggest question for operators in 2026 and 2027 is, are you running an econ DDC brand or are you building a software shop? Yeah, the only other thing I say though is I do think that it is, it can be a big waste of time. But at the same time, wasting a small amount of time on this stuff can be good because you're keeping up to date with all and you're learning about new stuff and you know about it. And I do think that is quite important nowadays that you just keep up to date with everything. And it's hard to keep up to date with everything unless you just kind of get involved with it a little bit. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you should pick on every sign you object or there's a new model out and then you've got to suddenly start building something with it. I don't mean that, but I just mean that yeah, I think you all have that problem. But I think it's just you've, it AI is definitely a superpower and it doesn't mean it's replacing everything and it doesn't mean. But it you've got, I think if you're going to want to stay up to date with it, I think you just have to get involved with it a little bit. And I think that's also what I was saying at the beginning is, is I think with you and I both on the side work with some other businesses as well with different things. And like one thing I see a lot is they, the impossibility of them diffusing it across other people and their businesses. There's some people, there's some really cool businesses and you think, why is it that 80% of them bear the use AI? And I think it's because it's so hard for them to monitor and get people involved. But you basically find that there's a few people in the company that are very involved with AI because it's very specific to what they're doing and the rest of them are not, we're just not really doing that much. Yeah, I think you definitely have to be a self-starter and that's like where us as solo founders, that's exactly what we are. And for the most normies out there and stuff, it's kind of like, where do I start? I feel like I've had conversations with people and employees and stuff that work under me and there's like, I don't know, where do I start? And like, this could maximize your efficiency and make you so much faster and better and we could cut out some of the annoying work and stuff. But so then they're like, well, where do I start? Yeah. And so you kind of have to, you have to figure that out on your own and you just kind of start small if you can. But it is kind of a certain mentality that that goes into it. Yeah, I think it's their peaceful tasks that you should focus on. I think Agent like Hermes or whatever you're using. I think it's just a peaceful task that are eating up a lot of your time. Another one for me is getting together all of the receipts and invoices that I received. Because here in the UK, you pay taxes, businesses pay tax or like a VAT tax and they then have to, they also charge the tax. So you basically collect the tax and you charge the tax and it's all on the invoices. If you charge on the business, you have to charge a tax and you have to get it back and you can play it back. So every month or every two months, I have to send off a ton of invoices showing how much we've collected and how much we've received and whether we owe anything. That's an absolute nightmare. I hate doing it. Whereas if I can have an agent go into my email, pull all those receipts, read them. So I don't have to read them and then match it up with the bank transactions and then see if there's anything missing and then I can try and find it with their industry. That saves a ton of time. So I think it's like focusing on tasks that you hate doing is probably the easiest thing. Yes, I love that. Chipoy, the big iceberg of annoying mundane stuff. We've talked about this as well to be super transparent. We were thinking about using it for this pod where it's like we could clip things, we could post things, we could grab topic ideas, research topic ideas, research what we've talked about in the past, automate the thumbnails, automate the descriptions. We're both running our brands as we've talked about before. We have basically no time for the pod, but we want to help provide as much value to everyone that listens as possible and help you out on your journeys as underdogs. So we'll try and share more of that process. I think as we go and as we figure this out to try and just share the learnings and share the wins and the losses because I think there's potential with everything to make this just automated, I guess, in some ways. The annoying stuff like you're saying. Yeah, it's huge. I'm really excited for AI to get better at video editing and I think there's probably is better than I think it is because I'm just not, I'd probably get not looking at that particular side of things enough, but I think when AI gets good at video editing, that will probably help our podcast a lot and also just our brands a lot as well. I think editing video is tough, and if AI can get good at that, that will be a huge unlock. Have you looked, we should probably wrap this up soon, but I'm curious, what is, I found it the other day, it was like, it's the edits app, I think is what they call it, by like Testarack or something. Edits is the Instagram app, but there's captions. I think they run captions app AI, which is run by someone. Yeah, I think it's, that sounds right. Yeah. Prism, maybe. I think I've tried their captions up. You're right. I've tried the captions up. I haven't tried anything else. They have a AI editor. I was about to suggest this the other day as we were talking about podcast stuff, but they've got a whole suite of, and supposedly it's really good. I can't find the parent. There's supposed to be a parent of the captions. I'm on captions.ai. AI editor. Get the app. No, there was some, there's a whole platform of suite where of course it sounded amazing. Mirage. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it is mirage. Okay. Interesting. Maybe we'll talk about that more offline. Yeah. We'll have to dig in. Anything else on personal agents before we go? If you guys are using them, let us know. Let us know if you're curious about more questions as we dig through, as I dig through this journey and stuff and set these up, but it's pretty wild. Yeah, there's something, but I'm keen to also hear if anyone's anything locally, local models as well. I haven't really delved into that. I don't know if we're there yet in terms of it being what, I mean, maybe there's, I don't know, but yeah, I'm keen to hear what people are doing there as well and saving on tokens and doing stuff locally, so yeah. All the tokens all the time. Yeah. All right. See y'all. See you.