154: Perimenopause Explained: Why Your Body Feels Off (And What Actually Helps) with Dr. Mary Grimberg

We're not aware of our bodies. And I speak this as somebody that is going through it and it was thrown into it. And so I want to help people, even before they get to Pyramid of Paws. - So that trend just isn't as hard. So it's not a disease like you're saying. And I just want to remind people that power is with you. It starts with you. - Cancer was a gift to you now. And it took me a long time to get there, but I'm so thankful that I'm awake at 39. I believe that Pyramid Paws is this perfect opportunity for us to all have that collective awakening. - By listening to the Coherence Code podcast, you agree to not use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition, either in yourself or others. Consult your own physician or healthcare provider for any medical issues that you may be having. This entire disclaimer also applies to any guests or contributors to the podcast. Welcome to the Coherence Code podcast, where we explore how the mind and body work together. So you can move from stress and inter-conflict to clarity, calm and alignment. My name is Lauren Brown. I'm a Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine and a Clinical Therapist. And through my work, I've seen that healing happens when we remove what gets in the way, and allow the body and the nervous system to do what they're designed to do to heal. Welcome to the Coherence Code podcast. - Today I got Dr. Mary Grimberg. Now she is a pelvic floor and orthopedic physical therapist and the owner of Resilience RX, which is a multi-clinician physical therapy while in this practice in Austin, Texas. I recently was interviewed on her podcast, TMI Talk with Dr. Mary. And we got a little bit into Pyramid Paws and Menopause. And I was like, I gotta have you on my podcast. So she's here today. I wanna let you know that she does help people move through the whole Pyramid Paws transition. That's a big part of her passion these days. And from what I've learned from her, she likes to do this beyond the hormone replacement therapy alone. She does this by regulating the nervous system and really addressing the whole person from a mind-body soul perspective. And what I'm looking to learn today through movement and rehab lens, she teaches women to understand their bodies, recognize patterns, and basically regain control. As I mentioned, she is also the host of the TMI Talk with Dr. Mary on podcast. Her mission is to reshape the Pyramid Paws conversation by bridging science with empowering tools that give both practitioners and clients more options, freedom and confidence through life transition. We were introduced through radiologist, Dr. Mitchell Abrams, and through my researching Mary, I would say that I think you're Ms. Mary, and you'll tell me if right or wrong, is basically to reshape the Pyramid Paws conversation. Beyond hormone replacement therapy alone, and you do this by integrating movement, rehab, nervous system regulation, facial lymph, function perspective, looking at these symptoms as a whole mind-body soul dimension. So that's kind of what I'm thinking. Do I got a good sense of you so far? - Yes, yes, absolutely. And it just, I want to add more to the conversation because all of those things can be helpful, hormone replacement therapy or menopause hormonal therapy. They can be helpful, but there's still a whole person here that we're working with. And I've worked with many people who are still, maybe on those tools and they're still struggling, right? 'Cause it's not just one tool in the toolbox, and I really like to shape, reshape the conversation so we can really start feeling empowered in our bodies during this time, versus just angry and upset about what's going on. I mean, it's normal to feel that way when your body's adjusting, but if we can start reshaping the conversation, it can make this journey a bit more tolerable. - That's what I hope we're gonna get to do. And the way you said, there's multiple tools and hormone therapies. One of them, I often use this analogy that a colleague of mine shared. Like when you go on a journey, imagine you're a carriage and you have this long journey. If you have one horse, there's a chance that horse may not survive, so you never finish the journey, or at least not on a timely manner. So sometimes you wanna have multiple horses, many horses, and each horse here is a tool of modality, hormone therapies, modality, physical therapies, and modality, acupuncture, herbs, all these things. So depending of where you're at on an individual level, you may wanna hook up many horses to your carriage. So we're gonna talk about all the horses that you can do. I thought your background is important to share, 'cause I understand you were diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma in your early 30s. And I was wondering if you can share how that chapter changed your relationship with your body and health, and why it brought you into this desire to help women going through impairment and in the menopause stage of their life. - Yeah, well, I mean, getting cancer at 33 is never anything you expect, especially on your birthday. That's the fun treat. - Oh, really? Is it on your birthday? - Yeah. - Okay. - But it was before that, I was eating healthy. I was exercising. I had cleaned out all the chemicals in my house. I was getting the sages regularly. I was doing everything on paper right. So technically, why did I still get sick? I was a good weight. My blood pressure was great. My blood work was perfect. There were no issues. And that's when I sat with it, 'cause you're face to face with death at 33, and you have to think, how did I get here? Not blaming myself that more like, if I did what all the healthy people are doing, I must have met, there must be something more than I'm unaware of. And that's when I started looking more into Eastern Medicine and realizing, oh, the throat area. That's my inability to speak my truth. If I cancer was in my right collarbone, I had a history of chronic throat infections, sinus infections most of my life. And I look in so much of my life was people pleasing, not wanting to be a bother, holding back my truth. And then I just realized how much that was affecting my nervous system, how much not knowing my body signals and suppressing those, 'cause I didn't wanna bother anybody. And how much unprocessed trauma and grief, and all these things that affect us day to day, and that's really what opened my eyes is, oh my gosh, we can do all of these things to help ourselves in paramedics, but if we don't have a connection to ourselves, and we don't know what that means, if it's really, we're missing a huge weight of it. And I was thrown, I didn't know this until the last year, but the last six years, my health was just after chemo, I had gut issues, I had gained 30 pounds, I had crippling anxiety, cystic acne, not able to sleep. All of the typical things that you hear about in parimenopause, but it wasn't brought up to me until I really had to do my own research and see, wow, I'm at higher risk for this. It starts as early as 35, but I was 33. I'd history of endometriosis already. Now add-on chemotherapy, I didn't have my period for three months. There's a lot to add on here, and that's when I said, okay, this is it. This has done so much work to, and we're never gonna find all of the answers. It's a constant evolving process, but now the tools that I've learned, I wanted to share those with women that they're free. You can use them immediately. These are things that just checking in with ourselves and understanding what our bodies are saying. And so that's really what took it to this next level of, okay, it's been six years of this, had my big life changed back in. 2020 was really when it hit. So at the end of 2019, it was when I got diagnosed, right when I was done with treatment, a few months after COVID hit, and went through divorce at the same time and lost a father figure all that year. And it was my dark night of the soul. And that's when I realized, that was the beginning of my awakening. - So that, yeah, definitely a very loud wake-up call. - COVID also, cancer, relationship change. And so with the, when you start experiencing like weight gain, fatigue, you talk to a cystic acne, blood pressure changes, and you stop cycling because of everything that was going on, including the cancer treatment. So your cycle stopped as well. Did the doctors kind of say it's related to like, you know, you're not having your cycle, you know, because chemo and some treatments can put you into artificial menopause, right? And so how was it received when you were going to see your healthcare providers when you were experiencing this? - Not, well, it was, menopause, period menopause wasn't even brought up on the radar. I went to my OB/GYN after I was having two periods a month crippling pain after the periods returned. And I was just told like, okay, this is just kind of weighted out. You can go on some birth control. And that just didn't feel good for me. I didn't like that. I felt very dismissed, but at the same time, I'm also recognizing those were the tools that Western medicine was given, you know? And so it was up to me to figure out, okay, well, what else could be going on with my body? And I had another doctor who was more aware of non-traditional forms of medicine and started realizing, oh, you might have early on, you might be experiencing. and resistance. And so then that really helped me to know, oh, okay, that's why I gained just 30 pounds, 'cause I've always been an athlete, I've ate healthy, I've exercised, I never really understood. I was like, I didn't have the body type that would just gain weight and lose it fast. And then that's when I had to look, okay, well, what else could be going on? My cholesterol skyrocketed. These are all early signs. I'm sure you see it with your clients, especially cholesterol. Now they're seeing a spike in cholesterol can be a sign of early parimenopause, but I had all the signs. Oh, and just severe difficulty sleeping. - And you talked about even the anxiety and poor sleep. So I'm curious, did you, had did your cycle eventually like, do you cycle now or did it? - Yeah, yeah. It's pretty regular now. - So I wanted to find for our listeners, like there's parimenopause, which is basically the period of time before menopause and pause menopause, pauses, your menstruation stops. So real quick, because people will listen to this probably, yeah, I've heard this a hundred times, but maybe somebody hearing it for the first time. Menopause, the Western definition is, it's a retrospective definition. You haven't had a period for a year, right? And sometimes it's just through transitional life. Sometimes it's artificially imposed like cancer treatments, chemo radiation. Parimenopause in general is like the five to 10 years leading up to menopause, right? So in your case, the treatment puts you into menopause or lack of cycles for a while, but they had returned. And while you're in that of, you know, no progesterone, a low estrogen, you developed all these symptoms, your blood pressure, your sleep. And oftentimes they won't want to use hormone therapy somebody who has a history of cancer. It's not necessarily they don't, by the way, just you gotta, if somebody's had a history of cancer, you're definitely gonna talk to your physician. Where I'm really curious for our listeners is, from your own experience, how did this shape the way you now work with women in like midlife transition? Not just those that have gone through cancer treatment that go into menopause, but for those that are in their 40s or 50s that are in that parimenopause phase, meaning they're still cycling, but I can't sleep. I'm gaining weight, my blood pressure is up. I have anxiety. The neurogenital issues of, you know, urgency or burning, itching, you know, all the weird things that people are like, what's going on where their doctor's saying, hey, you just need an antidepressant or you just need some pain killers for you to make some pains or you need a sleeping aid. You have a more of a holistic way to go under the cause. How did it shape the way you now work with women in parimenopause and menopause? Oh, well, first it's validating their experiences. I mean, these women just want to be heard, you know, and they're frustrated and they get upset. And then we, you know, it's going and saying, okay, well, what now let's focus on what we can do about it. And I really focus on educating them, hey, when progesterone declines, this is what potentially, this what can happen are sleep declines. Sometimes during our phase of cycle, when estrogen and progesterone are lower, our fascia can be more restricted. And then in that maybe we have more joint pain. So they start, I get them to start connecting the dots so they start feeling more empowered in their body versus feeling like a victim to it. 'Cause during this time we can feel that way. And you'll see that a lot in mainstream media too, it's just a lot of fear mongering. And I want to bring it back to, hey, this is your body. Let's start listening, let's start noticing patterns. So first, if they are cycling, getting them to notice, hey, what are your symptoms associated with a certain time in your cycle? And is it day three when your hormones are at, their lowest, is it then, or is it when you're ovulating? What or not ovulating, right? So then they can start to understand what is potentially going on. And then now the other pieces are just starting to get them to simply just notice their body. Like what are the sensations? Do you after you say yes to something you wanted to say no to? Do you feel lighter or do you feel heavier? Do you feel energized or do you feel depleted? Do you feel tight or do you feel relaxed? Those are your body signals giving you, because we focus so much, we're from neck up most of our lives. And if we can get into the body and get them to notice, oh, yeah, that's what that is. Oh, I just thought my body was, that's just what my body would do. And it's no, it's a signal, it's a communication. Let's create a partnership here, 'cause I was so angry with my body for so long, I thought it had failed me. I didn't know it was waking me up to go on this journey, 'cause this is an incredible journey to be on in empowering women in this way. But obviously that took some time to get to that point, but those are some of the things that I'll start with and then educating them on how the whole body is connected. So sometimes they'll come in, for instance, somebody having a low back pain for years and then realizing I worked on one of their scars along their left shoulder and getting them just doing that, freeing up their low back pain and their minds being blown, because when the fascia's restricted, it's this 3D connective tissue that can pull and twist our body in different ways. And when it gets restricted, it can cause pain in so many different areas of our body. And then finally, too, getting them to understand sleep hygiene. So many of us are on our computers before bed or on our screens or scrolling on social media and then educating them on how important melatonin is so if we can naturally improve our melatonin production, this helps to reduce cortisol and melatonin helps regulate our blood sugar. So there's all of these things that are going on and then finally validating them and realizing, hey, maybe we weren't thriving in chaos before, maybe we had more buffers with our hormones, but now those are declining. So we have to really narrow in what our body is wanting. - Yeah, through the lens, you often see this through the lenses physiotherapist, right? And we're gonna go into that a little bit more. And I often see it through the lens of Chinese medicine and hypnosis. And the way you just subscribe that, like all the stuff we were doing, burnout happens, but we're pushing, pushing. When these hormones start to fluctuate in Pyramanopause, the estrogen fluctuating, progestials decline, and then in menopause, both have declined. If there is resilience in the system, it won't even notice the change in hormones and you'll pretty much sail through Pyramanopause menopause. But just like when there's change outside of us, it stresses the system. And if we have resilience, we have the capacity to adapt. And that's happening on inside, as the hormones are changing, which is not a disease, is a natural transition, it's supposed to happen. It's a stress to the body though, because they're shifting. And if we do not have the resilience, therefore the capacity adapt, we discover these symptoms of high blood pressure and some of the anxiety. So in your work, as if, so I'm aligned to how you address this, right, holistically, you use the word fascia a bit. And I was curious, doing my prep to have an interview today and from when we talked on my podcast, on your podcast, I'm curious about the fascia, lymph, and nervous system dysregulation. If you can kind of share what do you mean by fascia? And also, how does this show up? Like when you start to see things symptoms, you're like, oh, this is fascia. And it's all connected. Like you talked about that scar on somebody that was affected to the back bone. Scar on the shoulder affected, they have back pain. How is fascia issue showing up, lymph issue showing up, nervous system dysregulation showing up. And so people can start to be aware, rather than getting a prescription drug for each of those symptoms, they may realize there's an underlying cause that they could address. Yeah, well, I love this because I love talking about fascia. It's, there's just so much in this that is, it's a newly, it's being newly researched over the last few decades. It hasn't been a big focus in Western medicine. And it's a 3D connective resilient tissue that moves and adapts to everything that we do. It connects everything in our body. It surrounds our internal organs. It surrounds our muscles. It surrounds our joints, all of these different areas. But for some reason, it hasn't really been addressed more in the modern rehab world, especially in physical therapy. People are starting to come around to it a bit more. But why does this matter in parimenopause? Well, we're, some of the research that has come out has shown. Well, first let me kind of back up a little bit. There's to over generalize what this is, is there's two main layers in the superficial layer is the top layer. So basically you got your skin, and then you've got skin ligaments that are like little lines that look like jail bars. And then you've got a superficial fat in there, and then you've got superficial fascia, and then you've got deep fat and deep fascia, and then below that you have your muscles. So even just the way our skin moves can tell us how that layer of fascia underneath is moving. And so we know a lot of metabolic health, we're starting to understand if the extracellular matrix of the areas surrounding the fascia, and that helps make it up, if that's restricted, there's some research coming out showing that it can impair, it can affect insulin's ability to be more responsive, and that's huge, right? And how our skin moves can potentially affect our blood sugar. This is pretty mind-blowing stuff. So this is early evidence coming out, and then you can potentially lead that to say, okay, well, it didn't say so. specifically fascia, but it's all in that same area. It's all what it makes, all of it up, right? And so now we've got deep fascia. And so the point of all of this is that it connects everything from head to toe. And so if you go into parry menopause already, maybe with a history of like an ankle screen, like 20 years ago or something, right? And that fascia isn't moving as freely. So fascia needs to move. It's like a sheath, and it can move. It needs to glide over other fascia. And the way it glides is it glides over through hyaluronic acid. And now if that hyaluronic acid becomes densified, we can't move it as freely, so it gets a little bit more sticky. So now think of it as like a garden hose. The garden hose, it can't extend its full length if it's bound up at one end. So same thing. So if our fascia restriction and our ankle doesn't get improved, now this can affect maybe the opposite hip or the opposite shoulder because it's just, it can't move as freely, like the garden hose. And so why is this important impairment a pause? Well, the research that's been coming out is showing that deeper layer of fascia is has estrogen receptors. And now when estrogen declines, that fascia becomes more rigid. So it might make us more susceptible to pain, or to we think it's joint pain. But it actually could be fascial pain. So it changes the whole picture of muscular skeletal pain in parimenopause. And now fascia is basically a highway for our lymphatic system. So our lymphatic system helps assist our immune system. It helps assist our detox system. And we need to keep that fluid flowing to help our body, its immune system work appropriately. Now if we know that fascia is becoming restricted, we can potentially assume that the lymph will likely be too. And those lymph vessels are supported by estrogen. So when those start declining, you can start feeling swelling and things like that in our hands and feet. The point of all of this is to say is that if we can start moving our fascia and we understand how to support a lymphatic system, this can really help some of the symptoms that we might be experiencing during this time. If the lymph is moving freely, that also will help clear out some of that histamine buildup because we know that mass cells are in that superficial fat layer that I was just mentioning about. And when hormones become dysregulated, the mass cells can become dysregulated and secrete histamine. And we need the lymph to help assist clear that as well. So it's looking at a different light. Maybe somebody's taking hormone replacement therapy, but they're still not feeling better. Well, maybe we need to assist the lymph system and the fascial system, or those moving appropriately. And overall, from that standpoint, the basis of all of this is the nervous system. So we know now that the fascia, so when we're in fight or flight, the fascia becomes more rigid and restricted. And there's now research coming out saying that it's a two-way street. So when our fascia is restricted, it actually tells the nervous system that we're in fight or flight. So we need to address it on both ways. So the point of all of this to say is that you can work on your fascia and lift, but if we don't look at the nervous system that's keeping us in chronic fight or flight, you can do all these things on top of it. It just, it may not stick as freely or these things. - No pun intended. - Yeah. - And you know, this reminds me of the conversation I had with Dr. Neil Theas, he's a liver pathologist. He was episode by our listeners 86, where it's all about fascia. And he kind of connected how Chinese medicine and acupuncture helps because there's more and more research that's work on the fascia. I know today you just came from your acupuncture session for today. And Chinese medicine has the saying that when there is a chief low, like you talked about this free flow, there's health and no pain. And when there's chief stagnation, we develop pain and then disease. And so this is interesting. Now I want to know then, how do you practically help people, like how would you approach this with the women that you're seeing to regulate the nervous system, to reconnect to their bodies, like through their movement or breath, like what are you doing practically? And I also, do you have like one of those Ohio stories like where somebody came in and they're like, I got this, this, this, and you know, it's one of those things like you work on the scar idea and all of some of the back thing went away. I just find those fun. But if you can share that in there as well, that would be great. - Yeah, I have quite a few of those because we're known for the people sending us or other practitioners or people finding us by sending us the mystery cases. I love for being known for that because we get to look at it from this whole perspective. So a few different things. Well, first, just getting them to understand, well, let's go, how do I help them drop into their bodies? Well, first, I educate them too. On the nervous system knows two things. It knows, are we running from there or are we safe? And it doesn't communicate the way you and I communicate. It sends messages, little whispers, maybe symptoms or sensations and starting to get them to check into their bodies just maybe once a day, right? This is a long term thing. It's hard to start checking in initially because you're not used to it. Or it may be more, maybe not hard, it's a right word, but it just can be an adjustment to start paying attention. So first, it's getting them paid attention, maybe set an alarm every few hours. And just notice, take a few deep breaths. Where are you holding attention in your body? Is there something that's coming up for you? What does that feel like? Getting them to slow down, chewing their food to applesauce consistency. I'll fully of it. I don't do that every time I eat. But when I notice that I'm dysregulated, I have to show my body that it's safe. And we do that through slower, more intentional movements. So I get them to start understanding the body's communication. Also getting them to recognize emotional stress with physical pain. One person, in particular, I'll think about, she was having chronic, I see a lot of, like, issue like buttock pain and parimenopause. But it's also, you know, people think it's like their top of their hamstring, but your pelvic floor muscles are right there. You've got your obturators right there, obturator and turnis. And every time we clench, the pelvic floor is going to clench when we're in that fight or flight, right? And so I just started to get her to notice, hey, what does it feel like when you're having different conversations with people? And she noticed, she was starting connecting the dots that every time she talked to her boss, and her boss yelled at her, her pain increased. And that, like, blew her mind that she did not associate the two. And Michael isn't getting people to quit their jobs when they're talking, I mean, yes. But there's also the reality of, you stuff to pay your bills and things like that. But once people start connecting the two, you can't really unsee it. And then you get to make better life choices based on those, right? Because if you know your pain is getting so bad and your health is getting affected, you almost really don't have a choice because the body is showing you. So I like to start planting seeds for them to get to that point. That's what I call, and I think we talked a bit about it on your interview of me. My notice except choose again process. Notice the first key, right? Getting noticed. And in a sense, you're making the unconscious conscious. I think it was Freud who said, the mind forgets, but the body remembers. And so I really align with this idea of just getting really practiced at listening to our body and seeing those connections. So then you can create awareness from that. And then usually from that awareness, you start to make new choices or decisions. My scent changes or just, so because the body's talking to you. And it's whispering like you said. But sometimes if you don't listen, it yells like your Hodgkin's diagnosis, right? Yeah, exactly. I love you said you get some of these cases. So do you have anything that you can kind of share? Like, you know, was there any, like, you may not have shown up, but you know, somebody's got insomnia and hot flashes. They're impairing menopause. And then you're like palpaine stretching something and it changes. I don't know, does that happen in your practice? I don't know how much the fasci connects that directly. I would say like getting them to notice. So I'll say, I'll notice this just with a few different clients, one particular chronic hit pain and noticing that their diaphragm was actually more restricted. So the diaphragm itself, it connects to the cell as, that goes along the spine. And that's something that people are unaware of. And then we know the diaphragm fascily is connected to the tongue and then all the way down to the feet. So a lot of the symptom changes that I'll see in my clinic are going to be helping them with their nervous system. And so one in particular, I just noticed her in guinellia through the groin area. You can see on the side affected, so we'll say it was the left side. She had more, you could see more veins on the right hip, you couldn't. And the body speaks to us. So noticing the fascia, so the deep fasci and superficial come together around the groin area. That's why when people larger, people in larger bodies, you still always see the groin area because they come together there. But that's also an area where lymph can get more restricted because we're sitting in a lot of the times or maybe we never move that area. So you can see that there was likely a build up of pressure, even if it was subtle, right? Because why would it be on the left and not on the right and the left is where they're having all of their symptoms? And just freeing up the inguinal area from a fascial standpoint And notice like when free. that up, they had more pain and the right side, they didn't. So you can start noticing, "Oh, interesting." And then freeing up the diaphragm there helps with reducing that pain as well. So it was diaphragm, in guinnell area, we've got the adductors, the inner thigh muscles, all of those because that can affect everything down to the feet and then all the way up to the diaphragm. And when you free up, someone's diaphragm. And when I say that, I mean, it's the area, like at the base of your ribs, it's an upside down bowl and it works with your pelvic floor. Your pelvic floor isn't upside, like a regular size bowl. They work together. So if your diaphragm's restricted, it can't get that inferior movement, that descending movement to then help relax the pelvic floor. And then the diaphragm relaxes and the pelvic floor contracts. And so they work inversely together. So barbed diaphragm is restricted. This is one of the major ways we can show our body that it's safe. It works with the vagus nerve to calm the nervous system. So I will see people feel significantly relaxed after leaving the office because we're starting to get their bodies to feel like it's safe. And sometimes it's the first time they've ever felt that way. I had one person in particular who was just chronic pain, just chronic anxiety. And I said, in chronic hip pain, and the hip pain wasn't improving with more traditional physical therapy type stuff. And I had said to her, I said, can you give me a minute? Can we practice regular and new nervous system and explain why it's important? Had our lay down on the bed, walked her through mindfulness exercise, focusing on her diaphragm breathing. So breathing through the belly and allowing those ribs to expand and come back. And I also have something on my ceiling that it's a little kinetic piece of art. It's like a little mobile that you. And usually people use them for babies, but my clients love them because they move slow and controlled. And so when one moves the other moves, it's all kinetic art. So it just moves freely. And I tell them, I say, I want you to slowly track that. When you slowly track with your eyes, your body doesn't think you're being chased by a bear. If it's going fast, that's when it's thinking, oh gosh. Danger, danger. And you slow that down so their vision slows down. And then I get them to notice, what does this feel like in your body? Dropping them into their senses, you know, sensation. What does the pressure feel like on the bed? Under your heels. How about the bolster? Under your knees. What are some of the sounds that you're hearing? Do you notice any colors on the mobile that you notice? And he smells, right? And when they can start getting into their senses, their five senses, I don't really add taste. So the four senses, they can really drop in because that's all they're focusing on. I love what you just shared about the fascia and the diaphragm because that was one of my things, you know, that stuck diaphragm. Sure, sometimes get that spasm even, right? And I bet if you have that, and then you just, the vagus nerve, I love this. I'm going to have to listen to us again so I can hear more of what you just said because there was so much there that is important for the listeners. I'll say, just lie on Mary's table and she'll do it. You don't have to understand. You just have to tell her where it hurts, tell your symptoms and then she'll go and palpate and release. Well, I wanted to add on to what you're saying is, is we want to support our natural hormone production as much as possible during this time. And our body is going to prioritize survival. Reproduction is not survival. It is, it's a luxury for our body. So it's going to prioritize cortisol to keep us alive. It's going to shoot up our blood sugar. It's going to keep us running from that there because that's what it thinks is happening. As you're in a progesterone, hey, you can wait. We got to stay alive. And when you can start looking at it that way, you can really start to understand. And I think a lot of people that have a real hard time in parimenopause, and it was a hard adjustment for me because I was thrown into it fast, right? And so I want to help people, even before they get to parimenopause. So that trend just isn't as hard because there are some people that go through it swimmingly and minimal issues. It starts with you because there's so much fear mongering around menopause right now. You go on social media and it's fear, fear by this, this, this, this, this. And it really starts with you. And you can add on all of the greatest and latest things, but it won't, in my professional opinion, it won't stick until you understand your body's nervous system because it just won't halt. When you interviewed me on your TMI podcast and today and our discussions we've had, the message here, first of all, is this is a normal phase in a woman's life and you do not need to suffer. So if somebody's dismissing you, find another practitioner or listen to Mary's podcast. I have a ton of episodes on parimenopause, menopause from OB-GYN so you can get the information to go to somebody to help you. And there are many horses, tools that you can add to support you in this transition. So it can be swim and lead. It can be easier. And that's if I'm understanding correctly, the more discretion. Yeah, I mean, it's still right. Like, hey, I'm still in it. So like even just like the last few weeks, I've been having more histamine issues. I'm like, Oh, okay, it's frustrating. All right, what is my body saying? Okay, well, I need to be adding, working with a, I'm working with a functional medicine doctor and acupuncturist and realizing, Oh, okay, I need to start rebalancing my gut. There's different foods I need to be eating than I wasn't, I was eating the same things over and over. And they were all healthy, right? But it just, it wasn't working for my body. And I needed to cut out caffeine. And when those things start happening, it's like, Okay, so it's refined, refining, refining. And it's easy to get frustrated, but I don't want to stay in the anger of it because then your nervous system gets set off. So it's like, it's like feel the frustration, move through it, find a solution and then work and having this different point of view of what is my body trying to tell me versus how can I fix my body? You don't need to be fixed. You just need to learn how to listen. I was just, at the time of I recording here, I was just on retreat and majority of them were women and majority of them are paramedics menopause. And they were sharing in the discussion was how this brought them to the work to do do for work because, you know, what the hell is going on and not a lot of things were working. So they're like, finally had to go in and check on their house inside and they're so glad they did, you know, and to be the great mothers and you don't have to have a child to be the great mother talking about that material instinct or what your role is in the community. Because in Chinese medicine, during, before you go into paramedic, menopause, the energy is going down to your uterus every month to support a pregnancy. And then paramedic, menopause is a redirection of these resources, this energy, rather than your uterus, it's going to the shin like a heart center because your wives are now and now you have a chance to be the matriarch for your community. And it's also a survival mechanism because it takes a lot of energy to bear a child. And once you get to this stage of your life and your mid 40s and beyond, rather, it wants to keep you alive. So it's, it's conserving the energy for longevity, right? And so there's a wisdom there and we, so we go along with it and you can't, although you may want to look and do things you did at 19 at 49. Currently, it's not, you're not meant to live that way. You know, things have to change. You got to work smarter versus harder, I guess, to the expression. So again, you can fight what's happening, which I think would aggravate the symptoms or from what I understand, Mary, your approach was you use this as an opportunity to listen to your body, to listen to yourself. And it sounds like you reconnected or connected to an aspect that you were kind of ignoring before you got cancer and all the burnout. And it's changed how you are now and how you address the women you see in your practice. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything goes through this lens of would I be proud of my, like, would I be proud of this? Are my deathbed, you know, when you, I know it's like, it's, it's real deep, but it's true. Every decision I make, I'm like, is this a fear-based decision or is this out of love? Even with business stuff, it's hard because even in business, it's hard to, it's been difficult for me to find mentors that align with this type of vision is, is, hey, I still like to build a business, but I want it to be heart-centered. And adding on the spiritual aspect is that as your estrogen and progesterone declining, so is your tolerance for things that don't align with you. So your soul's asking you to be redirected and it's, it's, you can't, you like, get veer off course and then you're pushed back. We're of course, it pushed back. And the more we veer off and come back, okay, well, maybe we need to learn a few times. I'm one of those people. I need to, I knew I needed to make these changes, but I was delaying. I was like, back yet, not yet, not yet. I know this work, right? And I'm doing it. It's just, it is what it is, you know? And then I had to surrender because I was like, okay, I am trusting that there is more, like I am supposed to learn something from this. I don't know what it is yet. And as the each day's past, it's evolving. And it shifts my energy from anger to, okay, there's a bigger plan, I don't know yet. Look at where cancer led you. Cancer was a gift to you now. And it took me a long time to get there. But I'm so thankful that I'm awake at 39 when so many people my age are still running around with their heads cut off and just disconnected from the beauty in life. And I really want to try to reel it in. And I believe that pariamenopause is this perfect opportunity for us to all have that collective awakening. And it's, and you're, 'cause you're almost forced to do it. - In the conscious circles, the way you just described this, they rather than, you had a perception shift, rather than why is this happening to me, you went to, how is this happening for me? And that perception shift also impacts your nervous system, right? - Yeah, it's lighter. You don't feel like, "Oh, I got a control." 'Cause you don't have control, that's an illusion. - Yeah. How do our listeners connect to you, learn more from you? So your website, your podcast, we'll put them in the show notes. But can you just let us know where to find you? - Yeah, so I'm on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at DRMariePT. You could also find me on drmariegrimberg.com. You can learn about our physical therapy practice in Austin, Texas, it's rizuliant-rx.com. And then my team, I talk with Dr. Marriott podcast as well. And then also I do have a, if you'd like to jump on my email list for future updates, I'm working on building some retreats and more offerings in the pipeline for 2026. And I also have a free heart rate HRV tracker. So I gave it to your team, I believe. And so in that, so much of heart rate variability is focused on the physical and sleep. But I have a tracker with a guy that helps us understand stress so we can see it in real time on our Apple watches or on a HRV tracker. And it's a nice way to start understanding. Maybe we don't feel things in our body yet, maybe we can start seeing them through data and realize, oh, if my heart rate variability dropped, what was I stressed about? And then I also have emotional prompts too. Did I say yes to something I want to say no to do? Did I take on too much when I didn't need to? 'Cause that can really help you hone in in too. 'Cause that's something for me. I didn't understand that connection with my body, but when I saw the data, it helped me start understanding it a bit more. - Well, that, I like, so say that again, where do they find that? 'Cause I love finding data to give you prompts so you make the unconscious conscious so you can start to make choices. You said you give some emotional prompts. So can you share where they find that part? - Yes, I will send you the link so you could put it in the show now. - It would be in the show. What are they looking for? What will be called? - Oh, HRV tracker. - HRV tracker, perfect. Yeah, it will be in the show now. It's perfect. - Tracker and bad, yeah. - All right. Mary, I'm so glad we got a second chance to chat. I invite everybody to go listen to our conversation on TMI with Dr. Mary. Also check out the episode I really enjoyed it with Dr. Mitchell Abrams on her podcast and listen to the one on my podcast with talks with Mitchell Abrams. So we're on both conscious fertility podcasts as Mary, me and Mitchell Abrams and TMI with Dr. Mary has Mitch and me with Mary as well. So hopefully you check those out. Mary, I really enjoyed this. Thanks again for making some time with me to talk again. - Thank you for having me. Just to follow up to our conversation with Mary, I just want to share a few episodes I mentioned and other few that you may be interested if you're in your 40s or beyond or you're experiencing perimenopausal symptoms and symptoms in the menopause phase of your life. First of all, I gave a shout out to Yap Vanderwoll. He's episode 84 on basically spirituality. He's an embryologist that became spiritual from understanding the embryonic talks a little bit about fascia in there as well. Neal Theos, a doctor, liver, pathologist, 86, he bridges science and spirituality super interesting. Then I'm just looking at some of my lists here. We got episode 89 with Geraldine Prior. So she talks a lot about hormone therapy and particularly a progestian hormone. We got Nikki Kay. She's in there twice. So look her up episode 91 and there's one in somewhere in the hundreds. We got Latter Brighton on there as well. Kaylee, MacKies, Ashley, Dom. There's quite a few I have perimenopause and menopause people going through that transition. But those are the names I think. If you check those out right away, they may give you some good information that you can then go to your healthcare provider to get that support. So because we don't want you to be dismissed. One, and two is we want you to get the support. So this can be a smooth transition because the transition is happening whether you want it or not. You're gonna go, if you live to your 50s and beyond, you're gonna go from regularly cycling, menstruating to no longer cycling and it does not have to be a time where you're suffering. So that's why I want you to get this information. Also, if you go to my blog either on at geobounce.ca or learnbrown.com, there's a section on menopause under the blogs. So if you go there, that's where I put all the episodes that relate to menopause and perimenopause for my podcast. And I have just specific blogs that we've written about perimenopause to give you information to support you during this transition. Wishing you all the best. Thank you. - Thank you for spending this time with us on the Coherence Code podcast. I'm Dr. Lauren Brown, and I will see you next week for another conversation on Coherence and Healing. If this conversation resonated with you, please like, subscribe, or follow the show and also share it with someone who might benefit from it as well. Remember to take a moment to breathe, reflect and stay connected. Welcome to the Coherence Code podcast.