Peptide of the Week: The Truth About GLPs and What’s Coming Next with JAY CAMPBELL

(upbeat music) - Welcome back to the PEPTide other week podcast. I'm your host, JD Denham. Cross the way like always, I'm a good buddy, my friend, Mr. William T. Haas, what's up, dude? What's up, man, I'm happy Friday. - Yeah, good show today. - Ho-hoo, good show today. Someone that will and I greatly respect. We've been falling for years. We call him the Godfather of TRT and PEPTides and everything, all the above. He knows a lot about a lot. So, infamous Jay Campbell, we're excited to talk to you. We're fans, big fans. I told you this, but I wanted to quickly start on this story when Will and I started our company, you know, small little dinky company and labeling our own stuff and just starting off, we always had Jay Campbell listening over the speakers. You know. So, it's a treat to have you on today, brother. It was cool to run into you at Vegas and friendship spawned. - Oh, that's what life's about, baby. A lot of stuff. - So first off, thank you guys for having me, Will. It's nice to meet you virtually. I'm sure when we meet in person, we'll really chop it up and break bread together. But it's an honor. You know, I honestly, I'm waiting for you to message me because I know through the AND1 podcast, people, they had messaged me a couple of months ago and said, "Hey, he wanted to do a podcast." And you know, they're just doing what they do. They don't know that you and I know each other. And I've wrote him back and I was like, "Dude, I'm going on JD's podcast and whatever." I block half these people because it's like, no. But I haven't had a chance to speak at a level with people that understand the industry, like YouTube guys yet with anyone. And obviously, like you guys, I work inside the research space. I mean, my lawyer doesn't even like me saying that anymore. He likes to say the direct to consumer space because that's what it is. And we'll talk about that on this podcast. But I've got a lot to share. As I told you guys, you're saying a message. There's some things I can't share for safety of my family, but they're definitely, there definitely is a lot of stuff that I want to put into the ether because there's so many fucking retards. And every person, almost every person on the internet with an opinion about the peptide market, the direct to consumer market, that the compounded market, the GLP market, the farm and market, they all do not have really a shred of a clue of what they're talking about. And that goes for Andrew Huberman. That goes for all these people. I mean, I can name other big name influencers. They literally do not have a clue of what is going on. And the reason that I do very honestly is because I pay the top attorney in the world for consulting. And this guy, I'll just tell you guys straight up right now, it's Jeff Cohen. And Jeff Cohen told us, in November of last year, the peptide scientist was going down. In November, he told us. - Yes, that right. - So we knew what was coming. We did not know how it was going to go down or why. Now I do know why now, but we knew five months in advance. And just as we knew that, we also knew what was happening with the GLP space. And I can share with you guys all that 'cause there's a lot of stuff that people still don't know about that. So we can go as deep as you want. But like I said, if there's certain questions you asked me that I don't answer, you know why. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's talk about that. Let's go as deep as you like. - Well, we're at it. So shoot. Well, we're at 10 dead science. And I think everybody wants to know. We want to know what the actual truth is. - So Kenya, can you tell us what the scoop is? Why they actually voluntarily, maybe shut down? - Yeah. So very truthfully, the owner of peptide sciences, which I'm sure you guys know who it is. He's out there close to you guys now. - Yeah. - Who's a great man who really, you know, we all really need to pour one out for him because that dude created a business, you know. That nobody really understood. Most people still don't understand it. But he allowed obviously the direct to consumer market to flourish. - Yeah. - And you know, thousands of people have created lives and really good lives, you know, for themselves and their families and their loved ones because of what, you know, they were really able to do to carve the niche out that they did. And I think, don't quote me on this. But I'm pretty sure that they were around since 2008. - Yeah. - So, it's a long time. - It's a long time and, you know, very truthfully, because obviously I'm an OG in this space. I tell people I've been using peptides since 2003. It's just truth. Since Southern Research Company in Texas. But if I was as smart as he was, I would have gotten to the research space a long time ago and I'd be a gazillionaire and I wouldn't do a podcast 'cause I wouldn't care. - Yeah. - Right. But like, the truth is, is that, you know, he was a very smart guy. He hired very smart people. And they built a massive, massive infrastructure. And I want to give him even more credit because, what a lot of people don't know is, you know, that, and obviously the site's gone now. But if you ever went there, and I'm sure all of us have gone there many times, you know, he had literally like the Wikipedia of peptide information, right? So they had built up so much of this giant knowledge bank or call it this, it was really like an Acasic records for a health optimization. They had every single peptide, small molecule, supplement. I mean, anything that was bleeding edge, they had it. And so, you know, again, credit to them for doing that. But a lot of people in the compounded clinical space, and by the way, this isn't just the United States. This is globally. That's where they got educated about peptides. Like that's literally was the resource online and really offline for clinicians, for functional medicine people, for influencers, even guys like us to really get deep dive data 'cause they really did a great job of collating all these studies. Anyway, bottom line is, without going into full disclosure because obviously there's certain things I can't tell you guys. But basically the owner of peptide sciences decided to take his chips off the table and cash out. - Oh, period. - Well, I'm sure he was doing that. - So there's lots of rumors. - Listen, there's lots of rumors, and I'm gonna dispel every one of them, you know. Credit card processing, you know, they got caught. - Overseas. - Wabla, not true. Completely not true. Did not break any laws. In fact, I'll tell you guys just right now, they did not receive a single letter, an indictment, anything. No criminal penalties, nothing. There were some phone calls made from some very high level people in the government, obviously. - Yeah. - And they were like, hey, you know, we wanna see, you know, your finances and your records, et cetera, and all that stuff. And they complied because they were very, obviously, incredibly efficient in productive business. - Right, yeah. - Got a new test date. - And, you know, pass their audit and everything. But because of all the rumors in the industry and, you know, everybody was, you know, thinking that they were gonna make an example out of somebody in the research space, again, in the drug to consumer space, that they were going to come after them in some way. So him being the owner of peptide sciences, again, not mentioning his name, hired, you know, the Rolls Royce attorney legal defense team that he could get. And he had amazing representation. And at the very end, before he decided to cash out, which was obviously at the end of February, because I think this was announced in the very early part of March, he got a phone call from somebody on his legal defense team and they negotiated a deal with, I guess, somebody in the highest levels of the government, these, you know, black, white, who knows, right? Like you're talking very high levels of things. And they basically, and he decided that, you know what, he was like, I don't wanna deal with any of this, like, pressure over my head or, you know, looking over my shoulder, that they're gonna come after me for some under a reason. So, very, very simply, he made a really great living for himself. He did very, very well and he literally just decided to cash out. - Let me ask you a favor. - And you're in your opinion, and it's obviously just an opinion, do you think that they were coming after him eventually? Do you think he jumped ship right before it's ink? - No, so what I think is, I think it has more to do with finance stuff like visa. So this is what I think, and obviously I can't prove this, and I want this for the record to this in my opinion. - Yeah, sure. - And this will go into deeper, as we talk about the GLP market, Eli Lilly controls the United States government. You'll December, when I met with Cali Means in Las Vegas, and I had a 20, actually probably a 25 to 30 minute one-on-one conversation with him, which was set up by a mutual friend of ours, Tom Arts. And he said, he listened to me, he was very, very observant. He was very, very open ears. He did not interrupt me. He was actually a very cool dude, very cool guy. Cali Means, shout out to Cali Means super cool guy. This is exactly what his comment to me was. He said, after I told him that my space, my take in the research space, my take in white, why our attorney considers us direct to consumer, why we actually were developed, meaning the whole entire research space as a competition competitor to forma, because people in our space, A, can't afford a doctor, or B, don't want to pay a doctor for a script, they want to do it themselves, right? So that's the legal definition from a legal opinion standpoint. They look at the research spaces, the direct to consumer market that literally developed due to the parallel, you know, or call it, you know, a market that develops side by side, the farm market from people that didn't want to go down the farm of pathways. So that's how they look at it. But he said to me, You in the research space and all your brethren don't have a seat at the the table and Eli Lilly owns the table. - Mm-hmm. - So the truth is, is that all of us in the research space, and obviously you guys now know, 'cause we're gonna talk about this, this actually even goes into the compounding space, because if Eli Lilly had their druthers, they wanna get rid of every compound or two. Because they see compounders making generic forms of GLP, generic forms of peptides, generic forms of small molecules, et cetera, you know, changing the molecular formula, adding, you know, hyaluronic acid, et cetera, doing all these things they do, if they had their druthers, they'd get rid of everybody. And that's what they're doing. And if you guys have seen the Safe Care Act, that they passed in December, which obviously hasn't been passed as legislation, but it's drafted in Indiana, which is Eli Lilly's whole state. - You're Eli Lilly's, you're right. - So I mean, they want everybody out of the compounding. Of course. - They want anybody making GLP1, GLP2, GLP3, and any future GLP4 or Fiver, anything is coming down the pipeline, which we can talk about. So it's like, it's a really weird world, but I said all that to tell you what my opinion about peptide sciences is, I think that Lilly pressured the head of Visa or the head of BlackRock. BlackRock always continues Blackwater and BlackRock. But which, by the way, BlackRock is the back pocket of Lilly in the front pocket. - Okay. - And these are trillion dollar companies. - Absolutely. - So my guess is, they pressure the owner of peptide sciences in some weird way and said, hey, if you don't shut, or if you don't think about taking your chips off the table that at some point we will come after you. And again, when I say come after you, you gotta understand, and this is coming from my attorney, and obviously I'm not an attorney, but I have smart attorneys that advise me. There's nothing they were doing that's illegal. - Yeah, right. - Okay, 'cause I think you guys understand the gray market is very, very nebulous in scope, but there's certain things that like the FDA doesn't have purview over in the research space and vice versa. So it's a weird thing. The only way the FDA can really come after you technically in the research space is if you're a bad actor, right? And we'll talk about that 'cause there are a lot of bad actors, we can get to that in a second. But like, you gotta really be doing stupid shit like selling antibiotics, selling biologics, making claims, saying stupid shit on your website, you know, again, just doing everything wrong, not paying for attorney to give you advice. And so there's a lot of bad actors, but in the truth, from what I understand, peptide science has never broke any laws, they never did anything wrong. You know, there was all sorts of rumors that in 2023, 'cause I heard these, and this is way before, you know, I got into the space myself. I was an affiliate for limitless, but there were rumors that they were selling like seem to gluteide and Terzapetite and people were testing it and it wasn't that, right? And so the rumors weren't, again, rumors, probably unsubstantiated, but then the rumors became, hey, they're selling Terzapetite and seem to gluteide and these are obviously compounded FDA approved drugs and they're not what the label says they are, so you can bust them for like various like state statute laws, et cetera. But nothing, and again, I heard about that back in 2023, but nothing ever came of it. Nobody ever got prosecuted. There weren't even any cease and desist letters as far as I understand. Maybe they got a cease and desist letter from Novo or something on Seema. I don't know. But the reality is is that from what I understand, and again, I'm really close to the cat bird seat in that deal, you literally just decided to cash out at the last second. All the people that worked for him, which I'm very close to one of them, as you guys know, basically found out the next morning. - Wow. - Like, very truthfully, I was, how do I say this? Like, I was at the Arnold with the Biola and Jebri affiliate sales team. And, you know, I was about to jump on a meeting for marketing for BLL and all of a sudden, I got the text message that said, you know, we've decided to close and so that I texted my attorney and said, what the hell is this? And he goes, you know, I'm just finding out about it myself. I'll get into it. And then I texted Sonso and I said, dude, and he's like, I just found out. So it was a really weird thing because again, they're, you know, a Titan in the industry. But, let me just, let me just say this right after that, every fucking retard, you know, telehealth platform owner, super influencer, you know, I'll mention Andrew Huberman 'cause he was all over the place. You know, they all jumped into the conclusion. It was the end of the research industry. - Right. - Nothing could be further from the truth because right now, and this is what we can take this podcast, Eli Lilly and Nobo Nordisk and, you know, any of the giant pharmaceutical manufacturer giants, all they care about is that you do not sell GLPs. - GLP ones, that's it. They don't care about the other one. - You're not getting in their GLP lane because the way they see it is that they spent literally that's just a minute, a billion dollars probably each. Or stage one, two, and three trials, 10 years. And then by the way, we need to say this, the FDA, you know, taking a drug to market is so antiquated and backward at this point. Like if they don't fix that, then they're not even gonna be able to keep up because obviously in the research space with all this biomedical, you know, revolution happening. - Yeah, go fast. - I mean, there's so many amazing chemists making amazing things. Like you gotta fix it. Now Marty McAree, obviously the head of the FDA, you know, shout out to him because he's been making a lot of good comments saying that he knows that the FDA approval process is antiquated and out of sorts and that they need to fix it and they need to get things faster to market. So hopefully that happens, but who knows you guys? I mean, you know, like Jeff says, like, you know, getting the FDA to make changes is like turning a fucking aircraft carrier in a classifier, or a hurricane, right? I mean, it's true. I mean, you know, it takes time, you know, they're very, very stodgy, you know, they're very, very dogmatic. So it just, it takes time, like, you know, we've all heard from RFK, I always call them JFK, but RFK Jr, you know, what public, what, three weeks ago on Rogan, San, hey, we're gonna unroll the class two to class one and there's gonna be a big boom into the peptide space, but you know, I've talked to some very smart people in the regulatory side and they're like, it's not gonna happen like he says it is. Yeah. No, 'cause they still have to do safety studies. I mean, blah, blah, blah. I mean, when does any government-- One thing happened that fell. When does any government move that fell? I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a rule about it for a whole another year. Yeah, for a year. You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, everybody's expecting it all to happen and everybody in the clinical space, which I talked to so many of those people every day, is like so excited. Oh, it's gonna be the greatest thing. Now, look, it's actually not gonna be the greatest thing for people who rely on peptides from a prescription. Yeah. Because you guys know it's all supply and demand. As soon as it's, as soon as it's okay. Yeah. Price goes parabolic. Yeah, that's what the real deal is. Price is literally going to the parabolic. And they can truly-- They can truly. Well, think about this. And we need to talk about this. But they're also attempting, meaning, will they, you know, they're lobby, et cetera, even Novo behind it now and places like hymns is all mobbed up with Novo. They want the compounders to go under. They want them to go under. They're gonna go after every 503B and every 503C in the United States so that they can completely control the supply chain of 503A. Right. Wouldn't you? That's what they want to do. So imagine how fast peptides go 10X or 7X. Oh, dude. For sure. I had a doc. Guys, I had a doc send me this yesterday. He sent me a screenshot of this former platform that he orders peptides from. And MOTC 10 milligram was $1,400. Totally. Yes, it is. [LAUGHS] That's what people don't get, man. That's like, dude, man. And I don't know. I think there's a problem with that, because I just-- I don't think it's worth that. Um-- No. Uh, yeah, that is going to be the downfall. And then it will do another pendulum switch. I mean, if that-- You know, that's how the life is. That's how life is. How markets are. But they go after those companies. What about companies like the research companies? So you sounds like you're not too worried about that. So-- so luck, man. I-- too many of them. Well, I mean, look, so here's what we got to go with this. So are there-- is there going to be regulation, you know, prohibition? You want to call it? Would everyone want to call it inhibition of the research space 100%. Sure. Because unfortunately, there are too many bad actors. You guys already know this. There's literally people buying flip peptides from India or China. Yep. Unlabeled and then, you know, slapping a label on it, doing zero testing. Yep. God knows. Look, nobody even knows this. I'll share this with you, because I don't care. New York Magazine. And I think Harper's Bazaar, I think that's who owns a parent. They just let my PR team know that they just did like-- I forget. I think they bought 15 peptides or 15 different manufacturers research companies. And they bought 15 different peptides from 15 different manufacturers, and they tested them. And 75% of the ones they bought tested either full of endotoxins, underdozed or fake, right? So like, I think that's actually a good way to spin it for us that it probably is where we're at right now with all these retards, because you guys know we have to talk about the retards. Selling peptides in the marketplace are literally 75% of research peptides right now are one of those three things, right? I mean, how many people are having peptides? How many people have had peptides? Listen, how many people have come to you guys and said, oh, I tried peptides. That's it. it doesn't work. Yeah. I mean, times you've heard that they're getting fake fucking peptides. Yeah. I didn't lose any weight. You got Bunkstown. Yep. Absolutely. And everybody tried everything this everybody. They're like, oh, I have a friend who wants to buy a, who wants to buy peptides. I think I've looked at the internet and I found something I'm sold to him. So I have a peptide company. I'm just going to do this again literally. I mean, you know what I mean? Everybody had a friend they sold a couple peptides. You know, so they got a company. Yeah. You guys, it's so insane. It's so insane that people like us who've been in the space, who know our business, who know TRT, no peptides, know everything. You know, we get now when we go on social, which obviously obviously we try to avoid it because it's so toxic, but you go, you go on there and you get now targeted by people talking about peptides. So every now and then when I go on IG, I listen to some of these people and you guys, my god, like the average person talking about peptides on Instagram, and I don't have TikTok because they cancel me. I think J.D. you are the one that told me that I have like five impersonator accounts on TikTok. Some of them have like 50,000 followers. You see, but I got a bunch. People send them to me all the time. Like that's where he, like, you know, I mean, but like you think about like listening to these people talk about peptides and will that's exactly what it is. They literally bought peptides from us. They started using them. They're like, holy shit, this is amazing. And they're like, how can I get into this business? And then literally three months later, they're talking on whoever would listen to them with their peptide expert. And it's the information is so bad. If you guys know this so bad AI is where most of these people get their information and AI is literally bunk. Most AI is the opposite. Yeah. That's how bad it is. So in January, I remember when there was some this, you know, a conference and then we had people that some of these guys who say, who say their doctors, they're on the screen yelling at you going every one of the company is going to be shut down right now. And I'm like, I don't really go. They have no idea what to talk about. And that's just not possible. So how can I agree? I mean, being in this space, I think there should be some regulation because that needs to cut something. I mean, there should be some barrier. It's like like Jake, but I have the whole thing. So I see that article. I see that article peptide game of throw peptide game. It learns great. I don't know that woman, but great job. Whoever she is. She didn't do that. I was like, wow, this woman is either, you know, in Jeff Cohen's inner circle or has a pipeline to Jeff because like no one, you know, understood the industry as well as she did like it. Like, I mean, like he did until I read her stuff. But she made a lot of mischief. She got to see she's casting. She she's probably in her at the end of her, the summary conclusion, but let's say it was a huge article. It's like 15,000 words. But like at the very end, she made a lot of predictions. She's literally off on 75% of her predictions because I actually know where it's going. But, you know, we can talk about that. So, yeah. So Jeff Cohen started in December, the American peptide association. And, you know, not Cohen. So not coincidentally or synchronistically, right after I talked to Cali means, right? Because we need to see that the table guys, we got to have a lobby. We got to have people that respect what we do because listen, this is what Jeff says. And this is what's probably the most important thing I'll say on this entire podcast. And that is the people that believe that research peptides are crap are really just brainwashed by forma. Because they believe that every research peptide is being made in somebody's basement and doesn't have third party testing, doesn't have patching lot numbers, et cetera. And so we have to defeat that, you know, misinformation or that misnomer. And the way we do that is by A, we do the lobby, which American peptide association is doing. And then B, we do have standards of testing. Yeah. That every single legitimate research company will have to go through. And again, I can explain what that means, right? It's very simple. It's going to be three, what we call triple party verification, right? You will get a verification from the actual manufacturer, whether it's in China, India, you will then have to test it with a third party audit company in the United States, which, you know, there's so many of them now. Yeah. And then you would also have to test it for Cavi metals and endotoxins, which by the way, that's going to be the next part of our business. It's going to explode is all those companies are going to come out. And then you know, you'll also end up having, you know, this will be a side play, but there's, you know, these companies are coming that for 99 bucks, they'll be able to test 130 biomarkers. You know, they'll test your mitochondrial density. They'll test your biological age. So you're going to get all these things where you're going to know what your deficient in peptide wise. So all this stuff's coming. But if you, if you do that and then obviously up to have a batch number, a lot number, you know, you have to verify that what's on your label, you can prove, right? So again, 75% of the research companies will go away, because we clearly know they can't do any of that. You guys know there's tons of people faking certificates of authenticity. Oh, for sure. How many people grab ours or yours? And then literally the top yet, and top yet, you know, on a on a high end resolution thing and then send it to people. And then it's like, I mean, we've done this ourselves. We've literally found people all over the international market. I mean, people have literally created bio longevity labs.uk.com. Yeah, we get all the time. Yeah. And they make it constantly, dude. Oh, it's like you, you check on their, their COAs and you're like, wait a minute. This is ours. So look, man, all that shit is going to go away. You know, it's asked Jeff and I was with Jeff yesterday on a 90 minute call. He thinks that it'll be, there will be, there will be great headway by the end of this year. And all of the bad actors will be gone by second quarter of 2027. Okay. That's awesome. Well, yeah, it's great, but you know, to Will's question, you know, is there the possibility that Lily, because they have so much power, yeah, you know, shakes down these some master card American Express, you know, whomever and literally stops the sale of anything that isn't that it pharmaceuticale from injection, right? So there's no way they're going to stop like oral peptides or bio regulators, because those are classified supplements. But yeah, can they, can they stop the sale of what they call, you know, and in their world and the regulatory world, they call them NSIs non sterile injectables, which you guys and I know that's a scam, because of course they're fucking sterile. But they call them non sterile injectables that they come out of not come out of Borma. So can they, can they stop that, you know, through the pressure of credit card processors? Again, if you ask smart people, Jeff Cohen's one of them, there are others. They think it's a coin flip. So it's really, it really depends on, you know, how insulated you are as a business, you know, what is your revenue? Like we were talking off air about this groups. You know, are you stable? Do you have, you know, very low chargebacks? Do you want a legitimate business? Do you have legitimate customer service, etc. So I don't think there's any existential threat to the research space other than through that pathway. And look, here's the other thing. And this is very important. We spoke about this before. And I want to think it was when you and I had our podcasts in what September of last year. Yeah, yeah, Jeff, Jayde Jeff said this to me when I first, I mean, I've known him or of him for a long time. But when we first met, and he became my, my attorney and, you know, client, etc., have attorney client privilege. It was like back in September of 2024. And this was what he told me and my partner is at the LL. He said, look, and this is a truth, by the way, he says, until you guys can pay a fine quarterly of $100 million, you don't even exist. Okay. Yeah. I'll think about that for a second. Now, now look at the compounders. Look at, you know, because let's mention some of these guys, because some of these guys are my friends, you know, Sean Dorian, he's got a lot of enemies. He owns Empower. They're the biggest compounder in the United States. I've known Sean literally for 12 years. He's a very close friend of mine. And I give him a lot of props because he's standing up to the overlords of Pharma, you know, specifically Lili, specifically Novo, because again, think about this guy. Think about what they did to these guys in 2022 and 2023, when Novo and Lili could not keep up with Terzapatite and Seema Glutite. They literally went to the 503A's, which is what Empower is. And they said, hey, we're going to, we're going to ratify us in the emergency use legislation right now to give you guys the power to fill our supply over the overrun that we can't make. And then, and so they all said, sure, sure, sure. So then they buy all the raw ingredients. They do it all. Do they sell it? And then literally one and a half years later, they say, hey, not only are you not allowed to sell anymore, fuck you. We're going to find you and try to shut you down if you do sell it. So yeah, there's sued them. And there's massive lawsuits right now between 503A's and the compound. I mean, the pharmaceutical manufacturers and the great news is guys, you know, in our defense and their defense, obviously, because, you know, clearly we want them to succeed. They're winning at state level. So, you know, Lili has all the money and they have all the patent attorneys and all the counsel attorneys, but they're losing at the state court level because the courts are like, you guys do not own a monopoly. You cannot just get rid of everybody. That's what they're trying to do. That's literally what they're trying to do. So, you know, my guess is is that you will see massive consolidation of 503B's and 503C's. And if that happens, you know, as Jeff says, you can't just get rid of it. the consumer, the direct to consumer market, again, called the RUO Research Use Only Space, because that would be the only, you know, alternative to 503 compounded medications, which as you guys know, we only talk about it. They're gonna go up five to 10 times, of course. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - Right. So think about how insane it is if they get rid of all the 503 Bs and Cs, and I don't think that'll happen, but let's say they lose, let's say 50% of 503 Bs and Cs go away. - Yeah. - So let's explain this to the people watching this. The way the supply chain works inside the compounded space is the 503 Bs and the 503 Cs make it. And then the 503 As purchase it from them. And then they sell it to the scripts. You know,.co and you know, all the middlemen and stuff like that, you know, obviously the telehealth platforms, the clinicians, the rows, the hymns and hers, you know, all these people. And so it's like, imagine if you take away 50% of that market, now you shrunk the supply even worse. I mean, imagine the price. It's gonna be insane. No one will be able to afford it. And so my take is it research gets bigger. - Hell yeah. - Yeah, yeah, agreed. I accept these terms. - For the legitimate research providers, they get bigger. And again, 75% of research in my opinion, my opinion goes away within 18 months because again, there will be some sort of supply chain vetting. There will be manufacture vetting. And if you don't pass muster, you go under. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - It's like all the good companies are doing it right. The good companies are doing it right 'cause they can afford it and they put the money up and they're testing them like they should. And it should be that way. - Dude, this is a truth. So many people do not understand this. A legitimate research company, direct to consumer company, actually has higher quality control than the average 503B and 503C. And the reason that is is because the research company, again, the direct to consumer company, doesn't survive unless they have the most strident above board certificates about the density triple verification. I mean, it's insane. That's not happening at the 503B and 503C level. But again, people are so brainwashed because they think, oh, big barba, FDA approved. Then it has to be better than the research company. But again, still people that think that. Don't make it stop. - You guys have some majority of people that think that because doctors tell them that. Dude, the majority of doctors, the majority of doctors think that our shit is like low quality. You know, it's crazy. But Jeff talks about this 'cause he defends these people at the state level all across the country. And he swears and he'll say this, you know, he'll put his hand on the Bible and say this. He'll say, if you have human beings owning these companies, whether it's a research company or a 503B or a 503C, he's like, it's the integrity of the owner that determines the quality of the product. And he's like, whenever there's human involvement or human elements, he's like, you're gonna have bad actors. Just as you're gonna have good actors. And so he's like, there's no difference. He goes, I don't see anything different from research to the compound space. It just comes that way to the owner and how willing is that person to either come or go around with that? - Yeah, it's not perfectly said. - Right, this is kind of changing pace, but because I want to ask you some questions before we run out of time at said point. MedVee, that's a crazy announcement. I mean, do we, first of all, why would that owner say that? I mean, isn't he gonna catch some criminal churches now? Can you give us a little break down of what? - Of MedVee. So MedVee, there's plenty of it. So MedVee, yeah, so. - Okay, yeah, so MedVee, yeah, so. - Yeah, so I know this whole story. - No, no, no, I know this whole story. - So here's the thing though. So the story that we've all seen is actually not true. So what ended up happening, I mean, it's true, but it's not true in the way it was portrayed that he was guilty of all these things. So what ended up happening is that he had some bad affiliates who created the fake AI doctors. And so they now know, meaning regulators, 'cause I think it's just gonna be state that's gonna prosecute, or individual states that prosecute, they're just gonna go after the bad actors. So he's already complied to both the FDA and the federal government. He's already wrote a long letter 'cause I actually read the letter on Twitter like two days ago, but he's also, he's basically said, "Hey, look, I'm completely innocent of this. "I had no idea that this was happening." He's definitely gonna get a huge fine 'cause he's a billion dollar company. But he's gonna get off because he had no knowledge of what those guys did with those fake AI doctors. But I mean, obviously, guys, it's just, it's endemic of how, what kind of a first AI really is. Because if he did it, or they did it for him, how many other people are doing this in our space right now? - Yeah, sure, yeah. That makes more sense. - Yeah, when I first started, I was like, holy shit. And then I saw his letter three days later, and I was like, okay, this makes more sense. But it didn't make sense 'cause I was following that guy's story 'cause I'm in this mastermind people in the longevity space, and we were following the story for the last year. So when I first read that, I was like, I think I was not that dumb, I've heard him talk before. So again, he's just taking advantage of. But you guys know this, like, even for us in our businesses, what's the stop and affiliate from going out there and doing crazy shit that we don't know about? - Yeah, absolutely. I have a question about that 'cause we don't use affiliates for that reason. Few, but like, so you sound like you do quite a bit. That I was kinda, okay, can you, is that work out well for you? How many do you have if you don't mind me asking? You don't need to know that. But we chose not to do affiliates. - I'm happy to talk about it. It works very well. - It works very well. We don't have, I don't know what our current, you know, actually, how many people are in our area that work. I mean, it's definitely the Pareto principle. You know, 20% does 80% of business. - Yeah, typical. - I'm sure we got a ton of mom and pops. You know, we have a wholesale division too. - Yeah. - I mean, look, man, you guys, the whole, I mean, again, very few people know this, and I'm not gonna let the cat out of the bag, but peptide scientists did the majority of their business internationally. Right, so like you have to imagine that there were so many doctors and so many high wealth or high income, athlete people in the international community who had no recourse. I mean, they still know. I mean, you don't think about all the people that want to buy shit from us in the international market and we can't even get it through customs. - Right. - The only chance is like you fly a private jet in, you know, with $100,000 with a product. - Right. - I mean, there's like, there's literally no way to get it through. - We're in. (laughing) - I mean, you guys would be surprised. I mean, I'm literally a week from Wednesday, this coming Wednesday, I'm flying to Kourfu, Greece. - You're way. - To do like a mastermind for like, you know, there's not a single person in that room, probably less than $100 million to talk about peptides. So, you know, there's gonna be conversations around probably that kind of stuff happening, but it's just, we're just in a very, very, very weird space right now and it's just very difficult to get peptides like outside of the United States. I mean, there are people still shipping them into Canada, but as you know, if you ship anything to Canada, that's a coin flip too. They can seize it and never give it back. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - Yes, that is true. - So to end the research, the research you just only talk real quick. So it's your lawyer Cohen, that is he's starting that. - Yeah, it's already available. You guys should actually join. - You need highly rational. - You're right. - Paul back to you. - I'm not sure that you guys. - Cohen's not. - I'll connect you guys to Autumn. - Yeah, I'll connect you guys to Autumn. Everybody in our space should join that because it's not just, it's not just Brooke to consumer. It's compounders, it's influencers. - Yeah. - You know, it's people that actually have a fucking clue, which is very few of us. And so like, I highly recommend, I'll connect you guys with Autumn, who really runs it and say, hey, man, these guys are my good friends. They have a research company. They want to get involved. So yeah, because honestly, that's the only chance that we really truly have to building a viable direct to consumer platform. You know what I mean? - Absolutely. And the only regulation, the only way that yes, that I guess a big farm I can really shut down the direct to consumers is financially, is through the finance, through the banks and processors. The people are saying, the Department of Justice is coming after you. - The Department of Justice is coming after you. - Well, I mean, I mean, I want to, there is a cat in the house. - If you're a bad actor, you know, if you're a bad actor, and you're selling steroids, biologic, storms, stupid shit that you shouldn't be selling, then you know, they can always come out to you in that way, but that's because you're breaking some sort of a state of action. - That's the idea. - Yeah, sure. - I mean, look, man, the easiest way to not get in trouble is to separate everything, to make sure that you follow the rules of direct to consumer. - Right. - You have people messaging you and then asking you how to dose your products or how to, you know, how to cycle a product or anything like that. Everything has to be like, hey, we're a research use only company. We can't tell you how to use it. We sell it to research purposes always, right? - Yeah. - There's a little bit of a, you know, I wouldn't call it a game, but you really do have to understand what you're doing being in the space. - Yeah. - But I mean, yeah, unless you're a bad actor and you're breaking, you know, the law or really doing something criminal, it doesn't look like it other than what you said, finance. - Yeah, okay, awesome. - So curious, can you tell us your ahead on everything, right? Some of your most, some peptides that are just coming out or brand new that you're excited about or that you've used, there's some new, what do you got in there? - There's actually a lot of stuff. Hold on, let me get my book real quick. (laughing) - So I do want to, I want to, I want to show just real quick my book. So look at this book, guys. >> Damn. >> 735 pages, 1395 scientific studies. So this is the Bible on using GLPs in the world. >> All the weakening. >> No one will ever, no one will ever equate a beat this book. It took my copyrighter and my other copyrighter myself eight months to write it. We use NOAA. It's completely, you know, study, you know, we dug everything up. But the whole part about the book is a lot of science. It's very technical. Every chapter has a summary, you know, takeaway that's one page. So if you don't want to fucking read the book because they're so technical, just read the summary takeaway of every chapter. But in the book, we have what is coming. It's called the pipeline. And you guys, the shit that's coming is insane. It's like, you know, I talk about Reddit true tide and the book and say it's the greatest drug in the history of the world as of right now. But in two years, it may not even be relevant. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> That's the kind of bullshit that's coming. So I do want to talk about, you know, the drugs that, you know, technically the small molecules. How do you want to call them? That bio-1, J.B. Labs launched in December. And again, this comes from our chemist, Mike Farber. Who's one of the top biochemists in the world? He's got now, I want to say, 125 plus drug delivery patents. And very honestly, he was in my audience for like five years. And he reached out to me in April of 2025 and was like, sent me this crazy email that was like, hey, I really want to, you know, I really like you. I respect you. He's like, I really want to do something to change the world for you. And he didn't tell me who he was. >> Yeah. >> So I wrote back question mark, question mark. >> All right. >> Like, what do you talk about, right? And he then sends me back a link to all of his drug patents. >> Wow. >> And I'm like, what the fuck? >> Right. >> So I'm like, I sent to the partners. I was like, I think we need to have a call with this guy. So we did, this was like end of April, early May of last year. And he said, look, this is what I'm building. You probably already looked at my drugs that I built. I mean, you guys, this guy created an injectable Ivermector. I mean, wow. >> Dude, the dude doesn't need money. You know, he's completely set. He's 75 years old, but he wants to help. >> Yeah, that's right. >> But this is my legacy. I created these amazing drugs that have 19 day album and binding constructs. So it's like the longest half life of any drug ever designed. And he goes, it changes the game for pretty much everything. He's like, yeah, but this is just him on a Zoom call with us. And he's in Thailand, right? And he's just a white dude. He's American, but he lives in Thailand. Now he's 75. He's got a daughter. He's actually jacked. I mean, the guy's like, for 75 years old, he's like in same shape. But he's like, I'm gonna fly over. I'm gonna meet with you guys. He's like, I'm gonna bring you FLGR242, which is a recombinant ballastat. And I'm gonna bring you guys clothe, though. Now we knew what clothe was because obviously a lot of the one, Jeopardy Doctors are talking about it. They spent billions of dollars of research. They're down in the economic free zone off the coast of Honduras. They've been selling, talking 60 or 70,000 dollar injections for like five or six years. But anybody who's ever gone down there, and I know a lot of people that have not myself, but other people, they're all told me I didn't notice shit. I got nothing. So, you know, the clothe thing was already known, but the recombinant ballastat was totally separate molecule. And I want to as profits this by saying that everybody, including you two guys, in the bodybuilding well, knows what ballastat is, right? Yeah, right, right. There's been 344, 347, three, four, I think three, three, one, eight. There's all these different modified versions of ballastat. But the problem with all of them was twofold. Number one, very short half life. So you have to inject yourself like fucking three or four times. Yeah. And you got to do it right up before you train after you train, et cetera. And then the other thing was it finds to act in so it can increase, increase the size of the heart, increase the size of the organs, blow up your prostate, blah, blah, blah. So it's a shit drug and it always was a shit drug. Obviously some pro bodybuilders would use it because size was everything. And then one of the increased like shoulder, vice-ep or back or whatever. So, you know, there was some benefits to that. But nobody ever understood how to do what might did to it. And so what might did to it is he, you know, he took a, it's actually the 318 version of it, I think. And I'm pretty sure it's a 318 version of it. But anyway, he changed the binding construct so that it's a 19-day half life. So you can basically take a very low dose of it. And I sent JD some pictures of this like pro up and coming pro, Z competitor, his name's Alex Bedron. And he started taking it, you know, right before his, so he competed in Jan or excuse me, competed in early December in Southern California. And I think he took first place in his division, second place overall in the whole show. He's definitely a guy that's going to compete for the physique. He's got an insane physique. And he started taking it in February. And he was on it for two months and he sent me his pictures earlier this week and he's like, bro, what the fuck? He's like, there's nothing like the strong in the world. So. That's just that's just one guy, you know, there's a pro competitor who knows how to die. Who knows how to eat knows how to do everything right. We have thousands of people who are just, you know, every day Tom Dick, Sam, and herring people who are sending us their testimonials and they're before and after. And it's literally insane. I mean, it is, it is without a doubt a billion dollar drug. Perhaps even bigger because we have people in the cattle industry that want to purchase access to the patent to beef up their cattle. I mean, think about it. You want to beef up your cattle and you're going to make a fucking lot more money. Yeah, absolutely. So there's all these different ways that you can probably use that molecule, but for the average person. And again, I mean a male or female who's not a competitor who's just going to live, you know, let longer leaner, stronger, take off their shirt or bikini and probably can look better. It's amazing. Exactly. It's truly amazing because it burns fat. It's like a little bit of a lot of food. It's like a lot of food. I didn't know there was that much to say about GLP once. I'll tell you a look at that book. I have no problem sending you guys a copy. And I'll send you guys a PDF of it right now. So because you don't want to carry around. I mean, I'm not joking. It literally weighs probably like 18 pounds. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. So question, I guess here's a question for you. You are a bit-- you are busy. You have your hand in-- well, you're doing a lot of things. Is there any companies or things you're involved in that people don't know about or that are outside of this space? And-- what do you-- I don't know. Yeah. And then what's your favorite thing that you do? Like you speak-- You write books. You have-- You run these companies. I guess what do you really like doing of all of that? What are your parts of it? What do you dislike? What is the stuff that you hate doing? No, man. You don't have to disclose that. So actually, no, no, I will. I'm open book. I am involved in building something that's going to change the world 100%. If you-- that's why I sent you guys that article. So there's a lot of clues inside that article. If you guys read that article, it will definitely take you 20 minutes to read it. But it's so-- I wrote that as a-- You already wrote it? OK, awesome. It really separates everything. But if you see the summary of what they say is what is available to make and to build, that's where I'm building. So I'm connected with some very-- just call them Titans. And we're building it right now. And first-- because you guys know this-- it's so sad in the corporate world these days. But to build something lasting, you have to really handle the legal regulatory spot first. Oh, boy. Yeah, you have to build something structurally that will handle, you know, lawsuits. Hell yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man. So we're building that first. And that's like, you know, what's encompassing a lot of our time. In fact, I actually have three days of meetings next week in Tampa, my hometown, where these folks are coming into Tampa. And we're literally going to be in a board room, all Tuesday, all Wednesday and all Thursday. Yeah, yeah. To hammer this out. But what we build will benefit you guys, and we'll obviously, for most importantly, will benefit the world. Because like I said, like, you know, I want people-- and you guys do too-- we all do. The good actors all want this. We want people to be safe. We want people to buy things and to use things, where there's no risk. There we go. And that they know that what they're getting is 100% label claim. And right now, that's unfortunately not the situation. And as I say in this book, and I've been saying this on podcasts for probably the last five months, the book came out in early February or middle February, excuse me. But in the last five months, I've been talking about it is the problem is-- and you guys know this-- but so few people don't. 95% of people who use GLPs fuck themselves up. 95%. And the reason that that is is because there's zero education in this space. The difference between us and them is that we know how to use them. We know how to dose them. We know how to use testosterone with them. We know how to eat with them. We know how to train with them. We know how to get the right sleep with them. We know how to do everything else. Whereas all those people get none of that. They're not normally optimized. The doctor doesn't tell them what to do. They don't know they need to eat more protein. They don't know they need to lift weights. And then on top of that, a lot of them won't do it anyway because they're fucking lazy. I was going to say that. Yeah, that's your-- that's the biggest problem. They think it's an easy button. They were like, oh, I have to do any of this. But again, it's not because-- it's because they're not being told. The doctors don't give a shit lily and novo. Don't give a shit. Lily and Novo care about making a trillion dollars on you. They don't care about people getting healthier. They're not going to teach people to micro dose GLPs. Yeah. I mean, they don't give a shit. They don't give a shit. No face. The standard dosage in the studies for retutite is six fucking milligrams a week. And then they take them to nine and 12. Can you imagine if a healthy person took six milligrams of retutite, what would they do? They go crazy. Fuck up their brain. Yeah, that's true. So I mean, it's just insanity, man. So I really think that our job, as e-commerce store owners and influencers, subject matter experts, podcasters, whatever the fuck we are, our job now is to educate people. That's literally our job. There's nothing else. There's so many options. If they're going to go out there and buy fucking $49.99, retutite, it gets scammed. That's all that they chose that. But we can at least educate them on how to do this shit right. And look, man, you listen to that asshole Trevor Blackmire. I mean, that guy's a fucking retar. Yeah. Look, every day, every two or so, every day. Listen, everything that comes out is fake or for clickbait or engagement farming or whatever it is. I mean, he does ever look at his actual views. He's got like 1.7 million followers and he has low views. So I mean, all of his followers are fake. You know, it's all fake. But there are smart people in social meet or, you know, our followers, our consumers, you know, our fans and audiences who do watch it. And then they come to us and they're like, why is this guy saying this or like, hey, is this true? And you're like, no, it's not true. You know, but I mean, it's like he says things to get a rise out of people. So the fact that I even mentioned him on this podcast is probably giving him too much credit. But I'm just, honestly, I'm just over the fact that there are so many complete buffoons on social media talking about these products and confusing people. Because that's what's happening is they're just confusing the people that don't understand it like we do. True that, absolutely. Hey, what of the new tropic peptides, right? What's your favorite one? I mean, those ones are kind of, well, the C-max C-max are easier to feel, but the cerebralis and penalein, dihegs, you know, I don't know. What's your take on a lot of those? Will give me just some standout, some general kind of a pain in your life. Yeah, honestly, I don't feel any, I don't feel any new tropic peptide other than cerebralis. Okay. But you do feel that. Yeah, I mean, I noticed like, how do I say it? Like, if I take six milligrams, you got to take a high dose. If I take six milligrams of cerebralis in every other day for four weeks, I'll definitely have a little bit stronger cognitive performance, you know, throughout the day. And I feel like a little bit more calm. That's one of the things it really does is it kind of calms me. Like I think it really relaxes GABA pathways in the body. So I mean, I think that's what it does. But it's also one of those peptides where like you can't take too much. Yeah. And then your body will be overstimulated with those pathways that it works on. So you can only really do it like a month at a time. And I think the correct dosage is like every other day or three days a week. And then really like I said for maybe four weeks and then go off of it, you know, for four to six weeks again, after that, I feel nothing on slank, I feel nothing on CMACs. At high doses of dihexia, I get a little bit of a, you know, maybe cognitive enhancement. Yeah. We, we, we saw a oral product called BioMind that has dihexia, Newt Pept and J, J, what is it? J 147. And that's like a stage two Alzheimer drug right now that really is doing a lot, doing a lot in the studies. And I feel like a good lift for that. But I can't use, I can't, it really just makes everything brighter. I can't use that for very long. Like I, I might be able to take it a couple days a week, you know, and then after that, I got to go off of it because I lose the, it loses the effect. So I'm not, I'm not a really good guy to ask about new tropics because I've never really needed new tropics. But the ones that I take, I just don't feel much. But I really do like cerebral eyes and if you can get it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I agree. I have, well, as me, you may or may not know, like JD and I both have been sober and so are sober and have been for use for a reason because we like to, we have had some struggles with like real drugs in the past. And I'm just not very sensitive to a lot of those things. So sure, you know, and obviously hear different things. But yeah, I'm a tough one to my answer is kind of similar to yours. I got a question. It's hard to feel. Yeah, with all these at our fingertips, which are so many in summer, summer, you know, kind of deads with summer amazing. If you could choose one and that's the only thing that only pep that you could take the rest of your life, it would be. Man, that's a great question. I'm just thinking about it right now. I mean, it would be right now. It would probably be right at true tide, but then it would be. It would be whatever comes from that right because I talk about in the book, like the stage four and the stage five, five agonists are in the pipeline, right? Like a stage four agonist. Yeah, the stage. So the stage four agonist is just myostatin inhibition. So we haven't now, right? You can use FLGR and take root of true tide and you have a stage four. Yeah, it's as simple as that, right? But there'll be obviously ones coming that'll be about, there'll be a, there'll be a myostatin inhibitor component. And then the stage five supposedly is going to like increase brown out of your post tissue formation in your upper back. So you'll, it'll be basically like being on DNP. Well, you know, you'll just, your metabolic rate will just increase from just sitting there walking around. Geez. Who likes it? So I, oh yeah, it'll be safe. I mean, you can take right now like we just launched, I mean, well, actually we didn't launch. I launched it into my body four days ago, but damn, 15. Yeah. And we have a product called bio-bam and bam 15 is been in the market for about a year and a half. Yeah. But everybody under noces it because again, it's another example of people not, you know, misinterpreting the study data and the studies and rats. But you have to take at least 500 to 600 milligrams a day at bam 15 or you're not going to feel shit. So we, we have a product that you take three caps a day. It's 575 milligrams, 120 cap bottle. And I literally just got it sent to me on Monday and I started taking it on Tuesday. So today's my fourth day. I've been taking three cups of day. I've been taking low-dose, you know, again, the recommended dose. And so far, I haven't really noticed anything. It's not increasing my body temperature or anything like that. I mean, again, it's nothing like DMP, but it works in similar mechanisms to DMP. So I'll be interested to see, I mean, our chief science officer swears that if I take it for a month, I'll, I'll notice fat loss. But again, it's a product that you can't, it can't be on it for a long time because it's an uncoupler. And uncouplers are doing bad things in the body. So you gotta take a one on an an oxidant, you gotta take like, you know, co-ins on Q, Q10 NAC, you know, what's the other thing? You're a lip and A, you know, things like that to really make sure that you're, you know, repleting things that are being depleted. Yeah. But I think, I think my answer is probably twofold. I think it's probably going to be melanotam 1 because I love the consciousness enhancement. I love getting into stillness. It really helps me meditate and do stuff in the morning when I really want to be like reflective or contemplative or introspective. Interesting. And then for sure, Rhett, because it just, it did it shreds on a fucking microdose, you know, right? It's a damn scientific. High doses. What do you, what do you, what do you think about SLUPE, and how high of a dose should a person run? Let's talk about like oral SLUPE, right? Like, we got some amazing product. It's absolutely amazing. I think they sell 100 milligrams. Well, so I know there's people out there making high dose now, but we were the first company to make high dose. And, you know, I took the Lodos product, you know, right when it first came out from aminoacylum, which is now soma-cam's in 2024, right? So I was taking Lodos loop in 2024 and I was literally taking like 200 micrograms a day. And so it was my way that we both got me near. I mean, we actually did a photo shoot on four weeks of doing that. And we were both like, like I was probably six and a half, seven percent. I didn't even die. It was crazy. Now, granted, I was still using a microdose or red. A, a, a, a, both of us got really good results from that. And then, you know, the gorilla chemist came to me and was like, uh, dude, this is all wrong. We got to do higher doses of SLUPE. And I was like, what? And so then I read the research, and I was like, holy fuck. So I started taking 200 milligram capsules that he actually handmade himself from some company in China. And I want to say August of last year, and Jesus, man, in literally like five weeks, I lost at least two or three pounds of pure body fat, like right through here. You know, like, I mean, I was just absolutely peeled. But there's only, listen, there's, there's definitely a negative, a very negative thing. And it's not negative, like, from a health standpoint, but like, if you take high dose SLUPE, and you know, I mean, like, 400, 600, 800 milligrams a day, it's so powerful of a glycogen. I'm sorry, a ATP synthase producer that you are going to be eating everything in your fucking house. I mean, it is, it just dramatically ramps out of appetite and just again, your need for glycogen and carbohydrates and simple carbohydrates. So it's not really, in my opinion, it's not really a drug you want to take around. If you want to be shredded or you're dieting for a show or something like that. But if you need to gain size, fuck dude, testosterone and 800 milligrams of SLUPE for like eight weeks in a row is definitely going to put size on you because you're going to get like, that's interesting. That's interesting. Wow. That's crazy. Crazy. Crazy. But it's definitely effective. It also increases force production. So there's a lot of things, you know, from a mitochondrial standpoint and I honestly don't think there's any risks to it because I've been using it now for what, fuck, almost it'll be two years in July, you know, on and off. And I do think that if you're taking a high dose SLUPE cycle, you shouldn't go any longer than six to eight weeks. I think you should, and then you should stay off of it for that long. Like, look, you can actually run SLUPE at high dose for six to eight weeks. And by the way for women, high dose is 200 milligrams. My wife, if she takes any more than 200 milligrams, she gets the runs. And again, that makes sense, right? Because it's really, really amping your AMPK cycle in the body. And so it's going to just massively stimulate metabolic, you know, uplift or whatever you want to call it, rate. And so you're going to get runs, you know, especially as a woman, a small woman, my wife's tiny, you know, she's five, five, like 127 pounds, 120 pounds. So like, it really gives her runs. So I think that's the max dosage in women. I think in men, I think we're like six, six hundred eight hundred. I've gone up to a gram a day, but I didn't notice any difference in six, eight, six hundred to eight hundred. Right? And by the way, it's expensive, right? Because like, we sell, we sell shred max and it's a hundred milligrams of cap. And I think our bottle is 120. Don't quote me on it. It's either 90 or 120. And we sell it for like $499. Yeah. So, you know, guys are going to be able to run an avar and premo for much cheaper. Right. Do you think though where we're headed with, with peptides and where it's going, they're going, they're going to rival any type of gear. Because it sounds like it's, it's kind of approaching it in some forms, but do you ever think it's going to touch gear in any way? You guys, I'm not, no, yes. FLGR. So if you give FLGR right now, which is again, the recombinant ball, it's that to somebody who's never touched testosterone. So obviously none of us qualify. Yeah. It's pretty fucking insane. Wow. Yeah. It's interesting. Like, there's a guy, I wish I had his pictures right now. It's share the screen and show them to you guys, but there's a guy who's been sending us pictures is like 37. He's never touched anything, not even clomaphine, not even like test booster supplements. He started with 2.5 milligrams in the first four weeks. And then he went to five milligrams in second four weeks. And he literally looks like a guy who's on test. Wow. I mean, it's insane. So I do think, I do think that, you know, the stage four, GOPs, if they do have an effective myos not inhibitor and really just FLGR 2.4.2. Sounds like it. I think that I think that you'll be able to use that. Now, obviously, I'm never going to speak against testosterone because remember, we want testosterone for brain effects. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We want the dopamine signaling. You know, we want that. You know, I mean, granted, there's some anabolic signaling, but it's mostly brain, you know, neural pathways and stuff. That's what we went test. So I don't think there's ever going to be a replacement for that. But I definitely think I definitely think and I was talking to Brian, you know, the gorilla chemist about this day. I really do think that antibiotics that put a lot of risk are, you know, vascular profile and our lipid profile and our liver profile. I think that those will be replaced. I really do think that's also anubar. I think anubar, Prino and Winston will have no place in a person who's truly looking to be healthy long term. That's right. Yeah. You know, what I always say, I've always said, like, God, I wish I could do more testosterone without getting any bigger. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That that that is some damn anabolic. Yeah. Dude, and the other thing too is I think as you get older, you guys know this, like, you know, there's definitely an obviously genetics plays a massive role, but like, there's definitely a level of testosterone that you can take where you don't have prostate issues. Because as you get older, your prostate grows naturally no matter what. So guys are on androgens or low doses, you know, surgically precise, you know, clinical doses of tests are probably going to have a little bit more hypertrophy. It's not negative in causing cancer, but it will increase the size. So I mean, it just means you're going to piss one, you know, once or twice a night. But I mean, fuck, if you disrupt your sleep when you're in your 50s and 60s, that sucks. You know, it's not the best. You know, you want to sleep at least six hours straight. Or hopefully if you can, five hours straight. So what's your antidote to that? Is there, is there a way to fix that? You just deal with it. So put it this way. If it, I mean, that's something I've been working on for literally four years. Like I've looked at so many, of course. I mean, seriously, I've looked at so many herbs. I've looked at so many adaptogens. I'm hopeful that somebody will eventually figure something out that you can, you know, shrink the increasing size of the prostate as you get older. But right now, there's really nothing there. There's been some studies done on some really weird roots in Africa, but nobody's made it into an like an elixir or even a capsule. Yeah, it's too expensive. So I, I hold out hope that eventually there will be something because I think right now that's probably the biggest issue for most men over the age of 55 is like BPH. Yeah. You know, having to piss twice a night. And I know guys on testosterone are always in that crowd. I'm one of them. I mean, I definitely, if I can sleep, if I don't drink any water or drink a protein shake, you know, before, or I'm sorry, I should say after 8 p.m. I usually can go all night only waking up once. But if I drink a protein shake or if I eat a steak, you know, or if I'm drinking like God knows when you're on a slump, it massively increases your electrolyte consumption. I mean, I'm waking up twice, you know, I'm waking up twice. I'm waking up like 25 and then I'm waking up at like five again, you know. Join the club, brother. Yeah. I hear you. All right. I guess, you know, we were getting low in time. But is there any upcoming events we talked about this recently? Any any upcoming peptide conferences that you're excited about or what's the newest? What's the next one? Are you going to go to the one in Peru that I saw? I've been seeing advertised. I didn't know there was one Peru. I didn't know there was one in Peru. But I can definitely tell you guys that we are doing peptide polusa. So peptide polusa is going to be in Cancun. Nice. I want to say either the third or fourth weekend of February next year. And it's going to be really big. You guys will start seeing ads for it and stuff. It's basically me and Trevor Krueger and our crews, you know, putting it together. So if you guys want to be involved in that, you know, I'll reach out to you, but you know, but I mean, we really want to make it big. You know, we want to. That's awesome. Something the opposite of like fucking the seeds bullshit that we went to last year, which is you know, yeah, dude, they're amazing. What an absolute anywhere we can help with any of what we've talked about. You know, we're we we're aligned, you know, in all of our brothers. So I always say I die on this hill, man. So it's we're fine. Big brother. I'm I'm ready. Yeah, man. I'll be coach. I mean, you guys, did you guys want to talk a little bit about testosterone? I know JD said he wanted to talk a little about it. I'm happy to if you guys want to. Sure. I mean, we we can always talk about that. We have a lot of doctors that come on and are you or what are your thoughts on A.I.S? You're I mean, they're they're they're absolutely cell toxins. They should not be used. There's no purpose for an A.I. I mean, like here's the thing is like. And obviously I learned this from really, really smart doctors and understand them, you know, the importance of estrogen healthy levels of estrogen. Yeah, sure. The truth about A.I.S is that and this is what you really have to look at them is that they're literally stage three and stage four women's breast cancer. Right. That's where they were developed. Right. So there's there's no cellular value for an A.I. other than to prevent, you know, this toxic cancerous build up in a woman's breast tissue. So when you give them to men that suppress estrogen, who's for men who are on therapy testosterone, only bad things happen, right? And they really are cell toxins. You know, I've written many, many articles on my books about A.I.S. and and by the way, you know, my when I wrote the book in the book you read and then the the follow up which is the TOT Bible, you know, I didn't have the information then that I have now about A.I.S. and so we really didn't understand it. So like, you know, in the very early part of using testosterone, you know, we thought you wanted to block estrogen. Yeah, of course. And obviously we learned that that's the worst thing you can possibly do. But here's the truth. Like when doctors give men A.I.S. because men are complaining of high estrogen symptoms, they don't have high estrogen symptoms. There's such a thing as high estrogen symptoms. What they have is insulin resistance. And men with belly fat, men that drink too much alcohol, men that consume lots of sugar based drinks, they are getting an inflammatory cascade from their testosterone. That's creating what their doctor and of course they think are high estrogen symptoms, which are again, mood imbalance or alteration, itchy nips, yeah, water retention, you know, down here in the waist. I mean, all those things are due to insulin resistance. And it's truly unfortunate that doctors don't understand this. And, you know, a lot of bodybuilders like pros, you know, and I had this conversation with Ben Pekolsky when we did our landmark podcast back in 2019. I think it was 2018 actually. That really was like the biggest testosterone podcast ever. I have like a million views on on on on YouTube. I think it's still does or is over it, I guess now. But then and I went really deep and then said, look, man, he goes, I always knew when I was competing, that it was terrible because when I took it and he said he would only take it at the end of his at the end of his prep because he couldn't get water off his hamstrings. It was the only way that he could take in. He was taking a romasid, but he said it literally felt like his head was in a vice when he was on it. And so he knew that it was toxic. He just knew it. You know, he's very sensitive. You know, obviously he's very spiritually connected guy too. And so he just was like, I will never take that. And so when I told him, because he didn't know the level of I knew about the science of it, it all made sense to him. And that's when he was like, fuck man, he's like, you really got to get this information out because there's too many guys that are bodybuilders are taking this. And they think it's great because they're on two grams of test. We can pull them off. But look, man, the studies are out there. If you take a high dose of an AI as a testosterone using man, not a bodybuilder, not a competitor, why a guy on 250 to 200 milligrams a week, whatever testosterone, and you take it for 10 years, you've 100% shortened your lifespan 100%. 100%. If you look at what AI's do intercellurally, I mean, they are just terrorizing everything. There is nothing good about them. It's the same thing as DHT inhibitors. Same pathways, same bad results. You know, as you guys know, some guys get, you know, finasteride syndrome, BFS. And it's the worst thing ever. They kill themselves. They literally kill themselves. And that's like a genetic component. There's some people that have horrible results for taking a DHT inhibitor. And other guys can take high dosages of them and never even have a side effect. But they're still fucking up their cells. And that's the problem with these things. It's like, you know, when I wrote these articles back in 2020, I think it was a 2021 about DHT inhibitors and AI's, I think we said, you're robbing Peter Paypal, right? So you're getting some sort of a blockage for whatever it is. You're looking for whether it's like, you know, follicular minurization in the in the scalp for DHT or lack of water attention. Because obviously, AI's do take water attention away or maybe even remove the itchy sensation at your nipples. But it's all, it's short-term gain for long-term suffering. And that's they're getting those gyno symptoms. Itchy nipples were that gland starting to grow. They're getting sits on their chest at a back. What would be your play with that? Well, so gyno, yeah, it's a great question. So gyno, so this is a, it's a great question. It takes a smart answer. So gyno is genetic. But guys that get sensitive nipples, doesn't mean they have the gyno gene or the gyno, they don't have the gyno situation. Because the sensitivity is, if it's itching but not pronounced. And the reason I know this is because I have both of my, I have the gene and I had the tissues removed. Yeah, me too. Right. So I had two separate surgeries in my life. You know, I interviewed way back when even after I wrote the first book, Dr. Joseph Cruz, who's out by you guys. The guy completely went insane. But he was the world's top gyno surgeon. He did like 7,000 gyno surgeries. He won all these awards. He became, him and I became friends. But anyway, he went off to deep and I think he had like a pain addiction so I think he dropped out of society. But he was the top gyno surgeon in the world. And you know, him and I got into detailed conversations. But when he was performing gyno surgery in 2015, 2016 and 2017, he didn't know that gyno was genetic. It wasn't until Dr. Anthony J in 2018 started coding through 23 and meet genetic readouts that he found that there was a gyno gene. And 64 64% of all men have gyno gene. Oh wow. Does that does that actually mean? It doesn't mean that you're ever going to get gyno. But if you obviously take testosterone or animal steroids or get really fat, the likelihood that the gyno expression meaning the landal expression happens is very high. Yeah. And there's no solution except exurgical excision. Yeah. Cannot take relax if you need or over there or a robot man or any AI, those are just temporary band aids. They mediate the symptoms, but they absolutely do not solve the issue. Sure. And so I did you know a lot of bodybuilders, a lot of guys are ashamed of their gyno and so they take shit to suppress it. But they're not fixing it. And so I always tell people, man, look dude, if you got a fucking guy, if you got the gyno gene and you have gyno, just get a cut out. Hell yeah, man. Best decision I ever made, dude. Of course, bro. Yeah, because you're walking around in your bar. It's like, you're sure. Oh, suck, dude. Yeah, exactly. And it burns. Does you know it burns? Your kids come up and hug you like fuck. All right. But HCG running running concurrently with testosterone. What's the current view? Yeah. What do you think? So I mean, I think gene is great. But here's the thing. If you don't want kids, you don't need it at all. You know, if you want giant, you know, fleshy, sacking, porno balls hanging down, then you know, go ahead, you know, go ahead and inject HCG. But I've always said this. And again, I learned from really smart doctors who mentored me. You're giving yourself two androgen pulses. If you're giving yourself HG and test. Now, look, if you're a young guy and you want kids, you have no option. Yeah, you have to take a microdose of HCG or HMG and HMG and HCG together are much better than an isolation. But when you get older, like us and we're done having kids, you don't need HG at all. Absolutely not. If you want, you know, unless you want bigger balls, exactly. And I think, and I've always said this like for guys like us, you know, they're doing cardio and shit like big hangy, fleshy, sacking balls is fucking ridiculous. That's how you get injured. You write a bike? I'm on HCG, man. Sackly dude. You know, I mean, people will be like, oh, but my wife loves my fluffy balls. I'm like, dude, your wife just like your dick. Yeah. You're gonna give a fuck about your balls. So let them. Okay, well, man, we love you, dude. It's you never disappoint, man. We got to get you like for you're in Cali, man. Let's get you live. I will definitely come down there and sit down with you guys. It'd be awesome. We love it. I will honestly, I'll be there. I'll probably be there in June, for sure. Okay. Yeah, stop by. I'm asking about the about the can tune. Well, I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna connect with I'm gonna connect you guys with Jeff Cohen's office as soon as this calls over. Yes. JD, give me wills just have will text me so I can put you guys together. Yep. And I'll connect you guys with them. And then, yeah, Pep died, Palluza. Give me about a week because we're building a deck for it right now, but 100%. I want I only want people like us, right? I don't want any fucking retards. No retards coming. No, you know, there's going to be some audience people that will be newbies and stuff, but that's cool. We want them getting good information. But you know, my goal with this is two days of actual real, you know, JD denim, Jay Campbell, Willhouse education, like teaching people how to stay what you use, what's the best thing, dosing, none of the shit that seeds is afraid to talk about. We're not going to be talking about colostrum. - Yeah, that's what it is. - So it's like, and then we'll definitely have dinners at night. I think the way we're going to do it, and again, it's still being worked out, but we're going to have one main room where people will present, and then in the secondary room will be hands-on stuff. So there'll be people literally showing how to use peptide pens, like how to stack, you know, we nerd and jacked, all that kind of stuff. So we'll hands-on shit that you can get away with in Mexico. And then obviously every night we'll have like a dinner, and I think pretty sure it's going to be Thursday and Friday on Saturday night for people that stay for the weekend because I'm sure most people will. We'll probably have like a giant fucking DJ, you know, event type thing. So it'll be epic. - I love it, man. - Sounds awesome. So, well, cool, man, do you want to leave where anybody can find you? I believe most people probably know, but where's the easiest place to find you? - Yeah, man, for sure. Appreciate you guys asking. So on social, when I'm not shadow band, you know, I don't even give my IG account anymore. I do have a backup account. It's Jay Campbell 1971, which is my birth year, but it's a small account, you know, it's got like 3,000 followers. And then on axis where I do most of my damage, and so that's Jay Campbell 3333. Everything else is just so fucking suppressed, the shadow band. I am on YouTube and LinkedIn, but I mean, again, you can't find me. It's insane how suppressed I am there. - I get it. - Obviously my website is where really the bulk of my work is. I do, at last count, I think I have a hundred. 113 articles now that are in the top five rankings on Google. So that's, you know, for the people like Will that actually can fucking read still. That's where they find me, you know, realistically, because they're like, oh shit, you know, like, you know, the smart people that still read that's where they find me. Because all the articles are there and they're all for free. So again, it's just jcambo.com. And then there is a, there is a domain for people to get all my books for free. It's jcambo.com/free-info. So it's jcambo.com/free-info. And they can download every single book I've ever written, which as of now is nine. And the book 10, I didn't tell you guys about that, is coming out this year. And it's actually being ghostwritten by, I guess I can let the cat out of the bed. It's just like you let the cat out of the bag. It's being ghostwritten by the number one ghost writer in the world. So he's the guy that writes books for like all these celebrities, you know, the Tony Robbins, the global world and stuff like that. So I have no idea what he's writing. It's kind of like a gag. One of my partners was like, I want to do this for you because I want to see what they put out compared to what you put out just to see. That's right. So they're going to write, they're going to write about Clotho and follow that. And then they're going to write about like our lifestyle. Like what, you know, what is what type of person does these things? Yeah. So I think they're going to come from that angle. And then they're going to just kind of talk about me. But honestly, it's all it's being completely written without any of my influence. Oh, wow. That's a good idea. I mean, I get to see the final transcript, you know, or manuscript at the very end. And I can kind of say you can't do that. You're going to be. Yeah. I wanted to just. You missed the mark. I'm sure it'll be like a roast. You know, probably like sort of a roast, right? But I mean, they definitely are definitely trying to position it for people to find out about these amazing molecules, you know, because they're game changing. Oh, let me just give you guys one last bonus. Yeah. So Mike Farber, the chemist, he's also got another product coming, which is insane. And it's called lepto 3GR. And I'm not joking when I tell you guys this. It is literally a super reddit true time. So it finds it finds somewhere between five. Well, I mean, obviously there's three different receptors with the triple agonist, but each, each definite receptor finds somewhere between seven and 15 times harder than reddit true time. So you literally ready for this. You can take 50, 50 micro grams in an entire month. Oh, well, get better appetite suppression, insulin signaling, and nutrient partitioning, then reddit true time right now. Holy shit. So it'll be much cheaper. You can see that. Much cheaper and a lot smaller dose. But we definitely don't know the dosing strategies yet, because it's such a new product, but he is using it with a bunch of women overseas. And he's seeing insane results. And by the way, no, no, no, no, no side effects. It's just it's so small. It takes literally like 12 days to feel anything. But you just take a tiny, tiny amount. And maybe he thinks like two injections a month. Wow. That's amazing. That's right. Yeah. It's amazing. You better protect that from. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no, everything he makes is patented and trademarked. And he doesn't let anybody go after it itself. So we'll see. But my hope is they want to sell it. They want to start selling it in May, but I'm like, guys, we don't have enough data. You know, we got to have people use it first. Good for you. So anyway, that's coming. That'll be the next product in his three products. But I'm pretty sure that Ghost Rider is going to write about that product too. Because I think they want this book to come out in September. Now that's cool, man. Good stuff. Me, you made it, man. Well, it was a blast, man. We'll do it again soon. And give us contact information. We'll jump on board with you, man. It's been a pleasure, my friend. You guys, man. I love you both, man. It was an honor. And I'm, you know, D&D, whatever you need me, dude. I'm there. And hopefully I'll see you in by June. All right, brother. Pleasure to meet you. I guess you speak to you in person. Well, kind of virtually. All right. All right. You got it, my man. All right, guys. We'll catch you next time. You guys take care.