Pedagogy Meets Possibility: Partnering with AI in the Classroom

[Music] There are now image generators that are available. So I've done a little bit of work supporting social emotional development in particular around the recognition and understanding of body language and facial expression and supporting students to be able to really look at pictures of, you know, or videos of people in communication exchanges and then really zeroing in on what are those components of non-verbal communication that carry a lot of weight to what a message may mean or land as or be processes as meaning, having meaning attached to and then having them create it also. So giving a prompt to an image generating tool and having whatever, you know, what a prompt is that they've asked the AI tool to create a visual and then take a look again with their own eyes to see is that what I meant and what I expected to see. You know, for example, a person who is astonished. What does astonished look like? That's a bit of a nuanced feeling, right? It's not mad, it's not sad. It's a different kind of look and so there are slight differences that we might expect with eyebrows or the position of eyes or what's happening at the corners of the mouth with the facial expression. What are the hands doing? Are they on the hips? Are they up to the face? So there are a lot of different ways we can leverage AI. It's time for the edge. A podcast brought to you by It's D and A. S. C. D. community leaders, whether you're a teacher and administrator or someone who simply loves education, fasten your seat belts because this podcast is tailor made for you. Join us as we dive into the world of education, sharing inspiring tales of innovation, passion, and change directly from those on the front lines. And the episodes to come will highlight the incredible dedication and creativity that drive transformation in the field of learning. Buckle up and brace yourself for an adventure. Coming up today, we're going to be talking about AI as a pedagogical partner. I'm one of your community leader hosts, Georgia Trelajhi. Coming up today, we are talking about AI as a pedagogical partner. I made former TK5 instructional coach and classroom teacher and educator of 36 years. And I'm here with my always favorite partner in crime, Jessica Peck. Why, thank you, Georgia, being here with you on the edge really is one of my favorite places to be. I'm Jessica Peck, a middle school teacher and an isty author. We know that educators face many challenges and have very full plates, which often includes things like differentiating instruction for all learners and avoiding professional burnout. On today's episode, our conversation will center around how educators can use AI as a pedagogical partner to meet professional needs. We are so excited to welcome our fellow isty community leader, Kim Zajak. Kim, welcome to the edge. Thank you so very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Could you introduce yourself for listeners and then maybe introduce the guest you brought along today? I would love to. So yes, my name is Kim Zajak and I'm an astie community leader and it's been a wonderful experience for me to get to know the people that are within that community and also serve the community as well, the astie community at large in terms of representing the special education community and leveraging technology and AI in particular in positive ways. My day job is as a speech and language pathologist, I work in middle school in northern Massachusetts of Newark Middle School where I work with the best group of students and educators I could ever ask for full range of students with many different skills, abilities, gifts and talents and we work together to ensure that they have a seat at the table and that they are leveraging their voice in any capacity that they would like to. And I have other things that I dabble in as well. I've definitely done some work with nonprofits connected to educational technology as well. And in that process and visiting different conventions and conferences, I've gotten to know people like our special guest today, Jane Singleton. So I met Jane at another conference, South by Southwest, a couple of years ago now and we met because we share an affinity for supporting students who might be considered neurodivergent and who have unique gifts and talents and also unique pathways for achieving their goals and moving along life in ways that feel exciting and important and the way that they would like to live. So I will hand this off to Jane to tell us a little bit more about her background and her work with learners and families. Hi, thanks for having me. My name's Jane Singleton. I'm a current founder and executive coach of the Launch Pad for Life and I help individuals, leaders and organizations navigate neurodiversity. I love that there's fellow middle school teachers here. I spent a lot of time in middle school, but I 13 years prior to doing my business, I was building learning support programs and independent schools from scratch and worked with a variety of different learners and really started my business because I realized there's this huge gap in understanding neurodivergent individuals and after they leave high school and moved to college and career, it's like how do you manage all that unstructured time and Kim and I really bonded over just like love of teaching effective communication skills, which is so needed and I couldn't agree more with you Jessica that teachers have full plates and I kept feeling like we're not, there's something missing here and that's why I kind of opened my business. I was like, we have to fully build these skills that are essential for like life and career success. So to start off with and in both of you want to answer or that would be great. What what is using AI as a pedagogical partner means to you? Well, for me, it's it can mean many different things, right? So yes, terrifying with Jess and what Jane just said, which is educators are are managing a lot right now. The pace of educating our students is faster than ever. We have wonderful technology at our fingertips, but with that also comes increased expectations, different steps that need to be completed and even I would say areas that we need to think of that we haven't needed to in the past, which is student data privacy and just making sure that we're moving through the new age of learning in the safest way possible. So a partner in AI in that in connection to pedagogy for me is a thought partner, right? So with anything I'm approaching, whether it's communicating with families, communicating with colleagues, developing lesson plans for students, identifying different strategies that learners might want to apply in their approach to their own learning. There are available tools now that AI is basically running with and we can pull those into our practice to lighten the load, right? So a lot of the things that go along with my job include evaluating students as well as writing evaluations, creating individual education plans, communicating those with parents and fellow educators. So I use AI as a partner in that process quite a bit and it's it's done really helpful things, which is it it takes tasks that can sometimes take a lot of time and accomplish them much quicker so that I have more time on the other side to do the you know the things that matter most, which is the face to face time you I spend with students. And for me, I would say I really think it helps build a bridge between I say I consider myself a translator between the neurotypical and neurodivergent world because I am so used to reframing my language to meet individuals where they're at, but not everyone knows how to do that. So I use AI in a couple of different ways. One for intervention and communication skills building. AI gives you immediate feedback. So think of how hard it is to get your kids and bring them to the speech and language pathologist or an OT and like these appointments are few and far between. And we all know that intervention would be better if it was like daily for example, or at least three times a week. So I love teaching my clients. How can I get feedback as soon as they're aware of like the actual issue at hand, they can use AI as a thought partner to get feedback on how can this be more clear or teach me and give me that direct feedback. Because most people want to improve in those areas. And I actually had there's I work with a lot of different complicated cases and a lot of diagnoses. There's their comorbid right so it's not just one thing. And I, I would I would like to think a lot of teachers agree with me. How many how much time we spent on like emails like the tone. It has to be perfect. It has to land perfect. Well, what's great about AI is you can give them you can make them an expert in something you can give them a persona. And I actually did this recently for I don't know if you guys are familiar with like pervasive demand avoidance, which is like popping up more diagnostically. But there is framing your language in this like immensely gentle non command way is I was like I actually had them reread through my email. Now it's like, imagine this is the recipe. and right who is very sensitive in these ways. And they did it like this, where it's like, I could have done it, but it would have taken me a lot longer. And I just think, when I think about the miscommunication that happens between neurodivergent people, this is a beautiful way for a manager, this has been just for teachers. It's like for a manager, how do we make a more inclusive world, even peer to peer? I think right, I think there's neurodivergent people everywhere within our colleagues at work. And we know, I think we already know those people that we have a hard time communicating with. And so how can we adapt? It's all about adapting your communication so that we can get the successful outcomes that we want for our students. - Yeah, and I wanna just, I just thought of something, Jane, just to add on to that. You just made me so keenly aware of how AI can provide a space where both neuro-typical and neurodivergent individuals can both put in the work, right? I'm thinking about the social model of disability, which looks to not necessarily looking at, looking at things through a deficit-based lens, but more through a design of context lens. And what should go into that process in order to create the context of greatest success for all? And so a lot of time has been spent, right? Where the ask has been placed on the neuro-divergent to learn how neuro-typical world does things and to build skills through that channel. This is a wonderful opportunity to do the reverse. - It's so powerful what you're talking about in terms of personalizing the learning journey for each student. And we've talked a lot on the podcast about how AI can support academics, but I mean, what you're talking about is way beyond traditional academics. And it's so interesting to think about how could AI support maybe the development of social emotional skills or executive functioning in students, 'cause those are also areas as I'm thinking and listening to you speak. Those are areas where I feel like my kids could use support. - So what's great. - I feel like I was just thinking as you were talking to him about how when we use AI as a thought partner, it's also a feedback for when I consider emotional regulation. Well, one, right, I think we, number one, we hear this strategy all the time, like, oh, if you're really upset, like go journal, right? So you can write it out to AI. But we don't, I think that communication piece like not knowing how you're received is you can ask AI like, how might this be received from a stranger or from a teacher or from a parent or from a really close friend. And so I think from a social emotional place that really when we're building those skills it's all about perspective taking in a lot of different ways. And we can ask like, this is how I feel, how can I convey my emotions in a productive way or constructive way. I mean, we've been spending, I, one of the reasons I became a leadership coach is I just think it's so important, productive conflict is so important. But I think we can start teaching these skills much younger and I think the communication aspect that is key. - Yes, and I'll add to what Jane was just saying, there are now image generators that are available. So I've done a little bit of work supporting social emotional development in particular around the recognition and understanding of body language and facial expression and supporting students to be able to really look at pictures of, or videos of people in communication exchanges. And then really zeroing in on, what are those components of nonverbal communication that carry a lot of weight to what a message may mean or land as or be processes as meaning, having meaning attached to, and then having them create it also. So giving a prompt to an image generating tool and having whatever, you know, what the prompt is that they've asked the AI tool to create a visual. And then take a look again with their own eyes to see, is that what I meant and what I expected to see, you know, for example, a person who is astonished. It's a different kind of look. And so there are slight differences that we might expect with eyebrows or the position of eyes or what's happening at the corners of the mouth with the facial expression. So there are a lot of different ways we can leverage AI that in the past would have been a much different process. It would have probably been still frames, magazine pictures, things that are static and don't have a dynamic or an iterative process involved, which I really like because learning is an iterative process, we know that. And so being able to do that and have the student agency at the focus of that and being able to go back and learn through their own channel of thought and revision is really special. We always like to kind of circle back to sort of boots on the ground to educators in the classroom. So what advice would you give to teachers, especially talking about using AI for these communication problem-solving topics? Where would you have them start? Maybe some examples of sites that you use or other things for someone that really would like to try some of these things? Well, I mean, I think first and foremost, the first thought when using AI with students is to think and prioritize their privacy and their safety. So we always have to look to terms and use of any tool that's being used. And if there's a red flag that goes up, that doesn't mean that that tool can't be part of the learning process. It just usually means that the use of the tool itself needs to be through the teacher, right? So through the teachers account, the teachers data, and where the thinking comes from, again, the students, right? So you can have a tool that maybe is not meant for children under 13, but you could ask the questions that were being needed to put into a tool to generate the outcome or the product that would be looking to be created. I think the other thing that's really important in the process is to remind people that it's a tool to enhance and not replace the humans, right? That's really important that people don't see AI as a replacement. It just isn't meant to be used that way. It's, as we said in our, the title of the podcast, it's a pedagogical partner. It's a piece of the puzzle. It's a tool among many, which the humans are at the center of controlling. And then I think in terms of tool selection, there's a lot that you can look to. SD has a lot of great jetting resources that you can look to to identify what is the best tool for what I want to accomplish. And digital promise also has some nice listings or libraries of tools that have gone through a rigorous process. I believe theirs is more slowly centered around UDL and universal design for learning in order to get these different approvals or stars of approval and certain criteria need to be met. So I always will direct people to vet the tools before they jump in using the materials. Yeah, and to Kim, I mean, I think this suggests the boost on the ground. The idea is great, but I'm sure every school and district has a different policy. So knowing that I think a lot can be, I think the guidance and just showing them the tool is a career skill. I'm just going to connect that back to why it's so important. So I think you can do an all class model. And so if you had, for me, what's huge and was huge before AI listed is we need to spend more time on question development. Because how can people get the help that they need if they can't ask the right question. And so going back to like building that communication skill. So there are some really cool ways to, I think, compare and contrast like look at the difference of the answer you get from AI when you ask a specific question. And so really grading those questions based on the AI response. And I think if you do that in a particular format, right, you're not sharing any private information. And you can have that done in groups and you can model that with a class. Just that alone gives the importance of why question development is so important and clarity. And I like that a lot just because I think it's a lifelong skill. And it's very related to critical thinking. I know that at Southwest E.D.U. I was recently there and Khan Academy is coming up with a great chat bot and they really tried to model it like a coach. So I think the traditional health buttons have been like directly giving you like this is the first step or this is the next step. Instead, this is actually what I love is it simulates a coach, which I'm big on. And so it asks, it asks the child a question to try to help them gather what they know to get unstuck versus just like referencing and copycatching. And I think that's I think a lot of different outside of Khan Academy, a lot of different tech apps and websites are trying to model the whole coaching strategy. And so I think that's going to become really powerful from an equity perspective. Are you concerned at all with equity of access to AI tools for students and in particular neurodivergent students? Is there like a teacher, educator, education piece that should start kind of falling into place? What are your thoughts on that? I definitely think we need to start. with educating teachers. I think there is a fear around AI and the fear of, am I taking away the thinking part of learning? And so I think there is a specific way to use it, and I think if we model how to use things in a healthy way versus I think we already know when we prohibit things, it makes kids want to do it more. And that's where we end up with not a good use of AI. And so I think some teachers are unaware of the power of AI and how it could actually help them. And so I do think we should be dedicating some serious PD when I think about burnout and retention with teachers. Like let's show them man, differentiation. Sometimes I think that just freezes people up to start with. I don't know some time to do that. So what I, again, AI, it's like ESL or special ed, right? Pull the tier three words from this entire book. Boom, chapter by chapter, define it. Great. Now I can eliminate this in a bookmark and it took me 15 minutes. And I have my vocabulary preview lesson for like the next six weeks. That's amazing. So I think showing, again, meeting teachers, whether I'm really showing the low level day to day boots on the ground time, consuming tasks and how AI could like take that off of them is like, it's where you start. I think how we present AI is everything. And then I'm bit on this. I can't, kids can't stand it when we're inconsistent. So I think also we have to start having grade level agreements. And then of course vertical alignment on some level of like, how are we going to use this and be consistent? Because when we show up as teachers like in science, you're doing this and then music, you're doing something else, then that's really confusing for students. And like, what is appropriate behavior and what are guidelines? So I don't think we should be rolling stuff out until we have some agreements within a staff situation. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's been tricky, you know, on the state level. There's a lot of variation across the country. And as far as early adopters, late adopters, people in the middle. And then we've sort of in a sense lost some of the guidance we were receiving on a federal level more recently. So, you know, there's just a lot to be done. And when I think about the equity piece and what that, what that means across the country, I do have concerns about that. And I'm hoping that states are starting to work together and to share what's, you know, what's worked well in places that did get an early start. And what maybe didn't, you know, didn't go as well. So that states that are, you know, now starting to make traction and move with their guidance on a state level can accomplish what needs to be done. And then on a local level as to what Jane was just mentioning, yeah, really starting with educating teachers and providing them with opportunities to learn how AI, you know, works, what is it, right? And how does it work? And also how can it help me the teacher? As when people find value in tools that they use, they are then more usually more able to consider how this tool might be able to help someone else in this case, the student. The other thing I was going to say is that, you know, and this goes to equity from a different angle, but yes, neurodiverse learners sometimes approach or have different ways of getting to the use of tools. And so what I've liked that I've seen recently is that there's a lot of co-design consideration happening in, you know, the development world. I've tech ed or ed tech. And so there are a lot of perspectives being requested to the table to talk about the different tools and how they work and what's here and what's missing to be able to identify blind spots and and make sure that these tools are, you know, designed and developed in a way that all learners can use them. And I really think we need to keep having these conversations because you're talking about Jane like starting at the school level and vertically and in your grade level. And I think there needs to be just and I always talk about creativity evangelism. There needs to be a little evangelism with AI because I'm sure at so many sites, there are a handful of people that are passionate about AI and trying everything and others that are afraid. And it really is, I think, going to take some administrators with some vision to pull people together and decide how they want to go forward since we're not always getting all the guidance from, you know, necessarily the federal and the state level. But I we have to keep talking about it. I guess that's where that idea of evangelism comes in because right now, we're the ones that have to help with the information. Yeah, I think the districts also are needing to ask questions like where where is this AI support showing up? What platforms or products do we already use that have AI capacities built in that we're already paying for? And then so and leverage that as an opportunity to learn with what's familiar. And ask the question, what else is available? What else is out there? We don't have yet. And what is the financial, you know, attached, you know, Christ tag to that and how would that be something we could adopt and bring into our district for our teachers and our learners to do this? So from the point of view of a teacher who's maybe a little bit isolated at their school, maybe they're functioning as a bit of a silo and they're just starting to dabble in what AI could possibly do for them and streamlining their workflow and serving students better. What kind of advice would you give that teacher? Well, I would give the teacher the advice to keep going, to keep experimenting, keep being curious. And at the same time, to look around and see who else might share that same level of curiosity that they do. And if there's if there's not something happening immediately within the district or the school to consider looking beyond into your state organizations where there might be people doing similar work or even on the national level, you know, even Isti has a wonderful place called Connect that people can, you know, land, you don't even need to be a member of Isti or ASCD to be able to do that. You can, you know, get an account and have access to the Connect site and there's a whole lot of different areas of specialty including AI where people are having conversations and sharing the practices, the trials, the tribulations and discoveries. So I just recommend the teachers that are doing the work that are curious or even just getting started, keep the conversation going, look for people doing similar things, asking similar questions and share, share, keep going. And I would say too, I think the best things oftentimes start with a small conversation within your own teaching team. And so I think the play is really important. I mean, I too, like, I had to get over my own hump when when playing with AI because I want to think that I have good ideas and the, you know, this whole thing we're tied to about original thought. And so I think those questions of like your most frustrating task, like I would say what start with your most time consuming task or maybe you have just a really a class where you're like, man, the executive function, like I have a class full of kids that are really struggling with executive functioning and this lesson is not working. How would you change it? Right? Like literally, like, ask it has been treated like it's a genie and see what it comes up with. And then if you like it, right, you automatically have something to try. And then you have something to present to your teaching team. And from there, that might be, oh, cool. That's a great format. How can I like recreate this format or history, right? For a different subject. So I think that's like the best way to do it is like figuring out because when you have that cool class team, you're working with the same students. And I think that that differentiation in each piece is just so clutch. I couldn't agree more for sure. I think this has been a really valuable conversation, especially as we're learning more and more about AI to just keep growing bigger and bigger as a presence in the educational landscape. So thank you so much for joining us today and offering your perspectives. We really appreciate your time and your message. And some listeners might want to connect after listening. So before we let you go, could you kind of give a rundown on where listeners can find you? For you can find me, my website is launchpadforlife.org. And I'm happy for you to connect with me on LinkedIn if you look up chain singleton. And my email is launchpad learning for life at gmail.com. Yes. And if anyone's looking to speak with me, you can find me on LinkedIn, Kim Zajak. It's with a Z, a J, a C. And also my email is just Kim Zajak number one at gmail.com. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Well, that wraps up this episode of the Edge podcast. We hope you had a great time. My name is Jessica and you can find me at Pacwoman 208 on X Threads and Instagram. And I'm Georgia Chilahi and you can find me at Georgia Chilahi on Blue Sky and X and both of us at storytellingsavestheworld.com. On behalf of everyone at ASCD and ISD's The Edge podcast, remember to keep exploring your passion, fostering your creativity and continue taking risks, all things that can bring you to the edge.