Speaker 1Well, he's run the Golden Rose, I thought was sensational, darting back to the inside. The horse I'm talking about is Cormier. He's trained by Paul Massara and Leah Gavranich, and Paul joins us on the line. Morning, Paul. Good morning. How are you? I'm very good. How is Cormier? Because he was very, very good late, and it just looks like he's crying out for more distance.
Speaker 2Yeah, he definitely is this time around. And, you know, probably looking at the Queensland form, coming back to Sydney, it's just not quite as sharp as some of these Sydney sprinters are. But certainly getting out over a trip, and we're heading towards, obviously, the Spring Champions Stakes after Saturday. That's the plan anyway at this stage. We just felt like the jump up to 800 won't be an issue for him, and I thought his best work was late and through the line. It's been tricky the last couple of meetings at Rose Hill. Nothing's really made up a lot of ground. So him, you know, coming from off the speed and kind of a stay, it's been a little bit confusing watching the race, as I felt. But I was really happy with his last run and the way that he came through it.
Speaker 1He was quite glowing after the race too, Aaron. And I think in his post-race comments, he straight away said, look, this horse wants 2,000 metres.
Speaker 2Yeah, that seems to be the feel that we're getting. He's out of a Mayor, Abby Marie, that won the Oaks. So you'd think on pedigree, he's certainly going to get the trip. And physically, you know, he gives that indication that that's going to be what he's after. I really think the autumn's going to be his time. You know, whatever he does now is a bit of a bonus for us. We didn't get much of a break between the winter and now. And I think with a good break underneath him, I think he'll come back a really good horse in the autumn.
Speaker 1With the horse, what do you think his best racing service is? He got that good four the other day. In fact, he's hit two good fours coming back, both at Rose Hill. Prior to that, we saw him on, what, heavy tracks at Rose Hill and Eagle Farm. And probably one of the best racing services he's been on, just in terms of getting his foot in and nice, was that day at Scone. On the 15th of May, it was like carpet that day. What do you think is his preferred footing?
Speaker 2I definitely don't think he likes it heavy. I know he performed well on the heavy and he got through it and everything else. But I do think maybe not super quick, but, you know, just maybe being able to, you know, get his toe in it a little bit. But I just felt that the way the track is played at Rose Hill has meant that those faster tracks, you know, haven't been tracks that back markers have been able to make up any ground on. So it's been a little bit deceptive. And the horses really on the speed have been favoured, I think, in most of those meetings of late.
Speaker 1Now, Aaron Bullock, does he retain the ride for the upcoming races? Yeah, that's fantastic. He loves the horse.
Speaker 2He does. Yeah, he loves the horse. He's got a good affinity with the horse. We've obviously got a good relationship. He rides a lot of horses for us in the country and provincials. And I think he's as good as anyone. So, you know, the fact of the matter is he's not a lightweight rider and, you know, he struggles getting down to 56 and a half is a real battle. So when that's the case, you know, you can do it on the odd occasion, but it's not a regular thing for him. And hence, he doesn't probably get the opportunities that he could in Sydney if he was, you know, a couple of kilos lighter. But he's a high-quality rider. I've got a lot of faith in him. And he makes very few mistakes. He's a very good rider.
Speaker 1Are you surprised? I know you're probably not, you know, scouring and looking at markets as intently as we are as putters, but he's $6 on the all-in market for a gloaming. I know we've got to get barrier draws and exactly what this track will be on the weekend. And then he's $11 on the spring champion stakes. And I think that he should be shorter, in my opinion.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's their probably healthy prices. And I think given the fact that it's $1,800, he will be sitting naturally closer. And, you know, with my luck, it'll be a back-markers track on Saturday. But fundamentally, you know, at Rose Hill, you want to be up and in, not back and coming down wide. So I like to draw soft and sit handy. Do you know what I mean? I think he's first four in the. in the race if he draws well Saturday. And then, you know, it sets up well for him.
Speaker 1Now, he's never worn blinkers before. Would you ever consider that at all in a prep? Or will that just rattle the cage too much?
Speaker 2I haven't needed to look at blinkers just yet. Certainly, I think all of his efforts have been very genuine. He was quite a hard-going horse last preparation. He's relaxed a lot this time. And he's relaxing much better than he was. He was quite keen last prep. So I haven't looked to go to the blinkers yet. We've got that maybe down the track or maybe next preparation. But at this stage, no, I haven't looked at using the blinkers.
Speaker 1And with the mum, and we're chatting with Paul Massara, by the way, about Cormier, with Abby Marie winning an Oaks, naturally, there's going to be an inkling or a question about the Derby. You know, a Derby, 31st of October, down there at Flemington. Is that something that, you've thought about? I know the spring champion is on the 24th. So it depends on how much you can cram into this horse and what you want to do with him, I guess, as well in an autumn. But have you thought about a Derby?
Speaker 2Only back of mind, to be honest with you. I really think if we head to the spring champion, that's probably his last run. And you've always got to think ahead, particularly with nice horses. And the sooner you get them out, the sooner you get them back in. And I think giving him a good break is kind of crucial to his preparation in the autumn. And I do think that's going to be his time. So I wouldn't like to burn the wick at this end or burn the candle at this end and then, you know, be a little bit short on the other because we've already kind of done that with the Queensland preparation into the JJ. Obviously, we've just missed there. But I think it'd really be beneficial for the horse to have a good break. I think it'd be, you know, detrimental to him not to. And the backup, the way the programming is at the moment, which, you know, isn't great. You've got to back up. You know, it really needs to be at least a two-week kind of recovery after that group one into the Derby. But I know it's been done, but it wouldn't be a preference.
Speaker 1With your other sort of stable, so you've got a number of stable stars, Paul, but Chains of Love is going to be representing your stable and connections when it comes to the Kosciuszko and has had a couple of nice trials. Everything. I think going good with her leading into that race.
Speaker 2Yeah, she's trolling this morning, actually. So I'll probably have to answer that more succinctly this afternoon. But she, yeah, she's coming up nicely. We're going to have a good trial from her today, which should top her off nicely heading towards that race. She's in good form. I don't think it's the strongest edition of the Kosciuszko this year. And I think if she's up to her best on the day, she can certainly be competitive. But I want to see a trial world today. She trialled very well first up and then put in a. It was a bit of an odd track one day at Newcastle where she trialled a fortnight ago. And it was a bit greasy on top and she never really let down. So we've got a lovely track here at Scone today. So I just want to see her really accelerate that last 400 metres and hit the line strongly.
Speaker 1All right. Well, good to chat with you. I look forward to seeing where Cormier does land when we get these final fields a little bit later on. And we'll keep it on that trial of Chains of Love. Good chat, Paul. Thanks very much. Thank you very much, mate. There's Paul Massara.
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