Patton Oswalt Returns Again

Hi, my name is Patton Oswalt, and I feel relieved about being Conan O'Brien's friend. Relieved? Relieved. You thought you were just barely hanging on with me? Hanging on by my fingertips? I know you got way bigger people you're hanging out with. Yes, I do. When everyone grabs the chocolate chip cookies, you learn to like the oatmeal. You learn to like the oatmeal cookies. Yes. Hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brand new shoes, walkin' loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are gonna be friends, yes, I can tell that we are gonna be friends. Hey there, welcome to Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. I'm Conan O'Brien, big surprise, joined by Son of Obsession, Matt Gourley, and very exciting show today. And I'm excited because this is a follow-up. You know, every now and then something comes up in a podcast, and maybe it piques the listener's interest, and then we get to follow up with new information that changes the whole story. Do you know what I'm talking about here, Matt? I do, yeah. Why don't you take the ball? Well, in an episode not long ago, we were talking about the epic time that Eduardo called Conan a little bitch. Yeah. Yeah, well, I don't know if it was epic time. It was epic. Maybe the darkest hour. One for the ages. In the history of our nation. Monumental. My pearls. Hero of mine. And actually, we were all reveling in it. Yes, and just to make it clear, we were talking on a certain subject, and then Eduardo, out of nowhere, just called me a little bitch. Out of nowhere. It wasn't out of nowhere. I know, out of nowhere. Well, I think, yeah. Wait, we're going to litigate this again? Because I'm talking about the time we were talking about that time. Which was very recently. But it didn't bother you at all, because you don't, you know. No, it sort of felt a little out of left field. And not at all in keeping with my stature. But, yes, we were discussing that time. Everyone here, of course, was doing the ha-ha, wasn't that great, wasn't that great. Conan sure got his. And then, Sona, you admitted something that kind of surprised us. Kind of stopped us all. Stopped us all. I don't think I would ever, I don't think I could ever call you a bitch. It just feels like, and then you said, you still have a little bit of professional fear. And I think I do. And it was. It's so funny. Because you have kicked my ass to the curb in so many different ways. I've called you a dick. Sure. I've called you an asshole. Well, I am those things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know why bitch feels like it's a little too harsh. No, but to you, it stopped you a little bit. And you were surprised that Eduardo said it. Yeah. And you thought, I couldn't go that far. Yes. Okay. Well, some information has come in over the transom. And, Matt, you were the keeper of this information. Care to tell us about it? Well, as soon as we left that segment, Sam Curry, who handles all the wonderful social media, put a clip in all of our faces. Let's just roll the clip. We can talk shit, right? The dreaded Sonam of Session, who's terrific at cornhole. Yeah. I'm terrific. Come on, you little bitch. You fucking can't throw, you little bitch. What wasted height. God, this is embarrassing for you. Loser. No, you can't fucking talk to me. I didn't interfere. Don't swear. I'm not worried about this at all. I can't get better at this. If we did a competition where we built wooden airplanes, you'd win. Dork. Someone's getting hurtful because he's a loser. I don't think I've ever seen you throw anything. Let's have it back a little bit. Three points for Conan. Yeah, I do have a problem. Twice. Twice you call him a little bitch. Twice you call me a little bitch. And that's one of 700 awful things you said to me, just as we're playing cornhole within like a two-minute period. Oh, my God. So you call me a little bitch twice. I was brutal. I was. So explain. Yeah. How can you think you've never done it because you never in a million years would? And then you said it twice within seconds of each other. I legitimately thought that I had never called you a bitch. I really did. And then the moment that that started, I was like, I remember that. And I think that, can I say something in my defense? Sure. Please. I'd love to hear it. I had, at that point, I was buzzed. I was buzzed. Were you drinking? Yes. That was one of those summer s'mores. So you were drinking alcohol. Yes, I was. I don't even remember, but you probably made the cocktail. I did, I think. Yeah. Okay. What was in there, do you think? Liquid courage. Which one was it? Yeah. So you. The chocolate one? Well, no. I don't know. Okay. I guess my point is, your defense is that you were drinking. Yeah. And we all know that in vino veritas, truth comes out of drinking. So all that reveals is that you really do think I'm a little bitch. Here's what I know. I know I get competitive and I know we were competing and I'm even more. I'm more competitive when I'm competing against you. Yes. And you'd been drinking. And I've been drinking. So you're trash talking. And I love to just trash talk. And you're a little bitch. Yeah. Well, I. You're a little bitch. Yes. I mean, we'll get to that later. Whether or not I am a little bitch, we have, I've, I just came back from the doctor. The tests are in. We'll talk about that a little later. I am. I think this also means I clearly don't have any sort of professional fear. You don't. Also, if you remember, I demolished you in that cornhole game. I beat you and you were mad. You were really mad. And I think that's where a lot of this came out. Yeah. That was like an uncomfortable day. I remember feeling like my parents were fighting. Oh, I wasn't fighting back. I don't know. You were smug as hell. You were so smug. You are the worst person because I won in cornhole, which means that I'm the best person that ever lived. No, you are an awful person to lose. I'm already competitive. And then went, look at your stupid face right now. Look at your stupid face. Hey, if you want to see my stupid face, go to the video on teamcoco.com. Oh, you're so smug. You're smug just thinking about it. And remember how cranky you was? The whole thing started with you complaining about ducting for like 20 minutes. The wall was covered in ducting and conduits. And hey, get me started on conduits and I need a drink. But the facts are, the facts are that you were shocked that Eduardo called me a little bitch. I was. You said, I was. I would never do such a thing. And then we immediately, thanks to Sam Curry, had footage of you calling me a little bitch. Not once, but twice in rapid succession. So what else have you done in your life that you think you haven't done? Yeah, you probably walk around thinking, I didn't do that. I would never, I would never kill a hobo. You guys never had those nights where you went drinking and you woke up the next morning. It's us. Are you kidding me? What are you talking about? What happened? Yeah. I once had a rum flavored lozenge and woke up in the library. You're looking at two little bitches here. Yeah. I'm a little bitch. And by the way, that's the big, that's the big reveal from my doctor is yes, it came back. No, I mean, when I used to go out and I would, you know, I would drink pretty heavily and then I would. Oh, I remember, sure. Don't, don't add, don't add commentary. Okay. Oh, sorry. I thought this was a podcast with my fucking name on it. We don't need your audio additions. On this podcast. Okay. I do. I, and I, I think I would, it's not that I blacked out. It's that I was loopy doopy. You went into a fugue state. And I went into like, hey man, I'm dumb, like limber and loose and chill and we're competing against each other and you're a little bitch. And I was like, just shit talking. Okay. So now we do, you know, now I think Eduardo's looking at you and he's like, game recognizes game. You too. Well, sure. You probably incepted it in my mind. Ah, me too. Now I know where I got it from. Yeah. There's a little bitch virus going around. Well, uh, you know what? I, I, there's nothing I can say other than I probably had it coming. We solved a lot here. We solved that you did indeed call him a little bitch and you are indeed a little bitch. We did it. Yeah. Yeah. We did. We solved a lot of problems here and I think, uh, everyone listening can rest easy. And I drank too much. I don't even remember who won. I don't even remember who won that game. I think you won, Sona. Yeah, sure. Sure you did. Well, uh, we have, we have a wonderful show today and I think we should begin. Okay. My guest today is a comedian and actor who's late. What's so funny to you? I feel like sometimes you, in your mind, you're like, is this an intro or are we ending the episode? I don't know. My guest today is a comedian and actor whose latest comedy special tea and scotch is available to stream on YouTube. Uh, this gentleman is one of my all time favorite people. I love it when he pops in. Patton Oswalt. Welcome. I'm on that. One of those, uh, uh, promo death marches for my new special. And listen, I'm, I'm flatter than anyone wants to talk to me, but there is nice to get to occasionally do a show like this where we're clearly just bullshitting. And there isn't that. Like it's coming out here and push it, push it, push it. We're just this interview. I'll be amazed if we even mentioned the special. Yes. We're going to wander around everywhere. We will, but it'll be a miracle when it happens. It will be. It'll be like a, it'll be like a little Easter egg that pops up like, oh, oh, that's right. We're doing it. There's a reason he came by. Um, but on the way, we'll somehow mention Marty Allen and the, the treaty of Ghent. It'll be the most unproductive. Oh my God. I can't believe I just said it. Oh God. Oh God. That's how all kids who are like 14 and 15, uh, all. 14 and 15 year old girls know me as the guy that talks about the treaty of ghent it's their favorite topic at the food court yeah at this they're all eating swedish fish and gummies and uh they know you as the man to stay away from yes yeah yeah at the mall because i talk about the treaty of ghent um oh he's gonna know it's so funny he's gonna quiz us again it's so funny you bring up this uh the media death march which most people aren't aware of because in this siloed world they come across the thing that they like and oh great you know patents on but they don't know that in order to reach a number of people to watch your special they need you had to do 107 of these i swear to god this is a thing that was said to me maybe 75 times on the old late night show and and shows after that but over like a 28 year career of doing late night television many times much more than you'd think people said to me oh my god i've been doing so much press but this is the last stop and they would say that without any sense that it's insulting yeah like i did everything and then you know we all know yeah that at the very end if there's time if there's time you do the conan o'brien thing i swear to god they said that so many times and i would like look out at my at my two-shot camera and go why why that's being broadcast yeah people hear that this is one of those things like when i do um uh double threat with tom schrapping and julie clauser oh this is the dessert in the middle of all of the boom boom because we were talking before we went on when you're promoting things now it is you are doing a million it isn't even talk shows anymore it is stunts yes you just you have stunts lined up all day you're gonna go on this thing you're gonna both be at a at a at a salmon hatchery and um and you're gonna be calling you're gonna be you know squeezing the thing to get the whatever the row yeah the row out and then you'll be talking about it's called all in a row yeah with a micro yeah and and listen it's 800 billion viewers they love watching celebrities squeezing out salmon we were talking about this because i did this i was telling you i did this movie uh with rose burn last year and they said you know you know i've never i don't do movies and so i was new to all of this and it used to be oh to promote your movie you'd go on maybe one maybe two late night shows this is back in the day it's all changed seismically since then yes so the next thing i know seismically is a good way to put it yes i am talking to uh a young woman's interviewing us while rose and i are finger painting and and then that would be over and they'd say get rid of the finger paints get rid of the finger paints and then they'd bring in a little blonde austrian boy named guter and he his bit is you both have to put on flemish armor while guter throws ping pongs at you ping pong balls and they have little questions and you have to catch them and then answer the questions you catch and 900 billion views and you do these and it's one thing for me to do it because people are used to me being humiliated all the time but dame judy dench right yeah has to be lowered into a giant toilet filled with hot caramel and then the person asks her questions about her career and it's called you know schutzenhausen yes exactly we're pronouncing i'm voting the movie the queen and what better way to do it than on royal flush yeah yeah that's where we but okay here's what's even weirder though you're in a movie called if i had legs i'd kick you which is a very like kind of it has funny parts too but it's a drama it's a very it's dark it's dark drama and you're doing finger painting yes so that's like having willem de faux and charlie sheen like doing um playing ganip ganop going go see platoon yeah um it's a really dark movie about oh you got through the loss of america's innocence man's in humanity to man got it my hippo beat your hippo i guess i was hungrier willem no it is it is what's become and so here's another thing i'm uh i'm gonna be i'm in toy story 5 it's coming out in in in june now you did ratatouille and it was probably a long enough ago that there was some some of this but now it's gone haywire and already i've done things where i'm they'll say now they don't even trust us to know the context they don't even trust the comic or the performer to know the context so they'll say just say rope-a-dope squidley d and you go uh rope-a-dope squidley d and they say now say rope-a-dope squidley d hello brazil and then they get all these things out of context and you do it and they say trust us it all fits into a bigger thing because you know tom hanks has done it and tim allen's done it and you know joan cusack's done it and when it all fits together and is shown around the world to 900 billion people it's really funny and i'm like how old are you i'm 21 i'm in charge of all disney hulu pixar and so it's amazing 21 and the success of this movie hinges on me getting to these outlets yes all these online outlets or you're screwed if you don't have me yeah yeah yeah it's just fascinating to me how this is what it is and i'm a big believer in you don't don't come i'm not complaining about it i'm marveling me that it changed yeah it just all changed and now it's this and i'm an old white guy who's like whoa look what's happening you know just losing my relevance fast but i'm just enjoying all the changes yes and i'm enjoying and i'm i'm very anxious to see who is going to do the next great like produce producers dr strange love style satire on this moment like what how crazy this is yeah but but it's going to be hard i i'm in a movie called the goat and uh it's a delightful animated movie and um so to promote it uh we a bunch of the actors we all went and did goat yoga they filmed us doing goat yoga so there were there was a goat on my back and it was i don't want to get graphic but it was spraying goat turds and and apparently by the way not graphic at all well yeah um i literally just said i don't want to be graphic spraying and by the way what i found it's on your back well goat turds come out like pellets these were these little pellets sure it's a giant pez dispenser it is but as i'm doing this we they went okay cut and they're doing this but i'm still have a goat on my back and it's it stopped spraying for a second and then somebody was on the front and went oh man we just went to war with iran and then the goat started spraying pellets again and i'm just like so where was where was hollywood when the war was declared they just cut to me like go see goat yeah well patten oswalt was holding on the fort in america doing his part for our boys overseas i just hollywood answers the call but i'm telling you you're a regular capra yeah but you know what you can't think of something you know you can't think of anything that's weirder or funnier as a comedian to parody this than what's really happening yes than what you're doing you with a goat on your back as it shoots pellets out its ass was a real thing and that's what one you know and and i accept it's go eat hot wings you know with sean yeah yeah go eat uh chicken on a chicken shop date um and those their shows are really funny the interviewers are great i love it all but it's fascinating that those shows now um you know people talk about late night tv and what's happening to it and i think well obviously there's a political component to it and there's all kinds of stuff going on all kinds of factors but um none of us can know late night show can compete with these shows that cost two dollars to make nothing and they're watched by you know hundreds of millions of people all around the country it's kind of stunning i somebody uh i remember i did a a late night talk show i won't say which one but they basically said um no one's actually watching this show we hope that one of our clips goes viral tomorrow that's where we get our viewers that's where the promo happens which is why there are so many stunts and craziness going on they want the viral moments yeah and they're and no one has the patience now i just re-watched the there's that dick cavett episode where they remember they're promoting husbands so it's peter falk ben gazzara and john cassavetes come out and they are so tanked and the and it is it's like a better movie than the movie they're promoting is them drunk and and ben gazzara takes his shoes off at one point and cassavetes falls asleep and it like it's such an event and now that would have to be cut up into little sure seven second things you won't you wouldn't watch the whole event anymore yeah no i mean it reminds you of the way things have changed that uh dick cavett could you know uh could have james baldwin on and they could talk about uh the state of being black in america for like 35 minutes yeah it was one of the most celebrated authors of all time and it's you know um but now they would say uh you know that's great mr baldwin we want to talk about that but first you have to hold this exploding pig um we've stuffed a lot of starbursts into it and they're time to go off in five minutes and then when it blows you have to catch as many in your mouth as you can but one raspberry and you get a goo goo point which means you have to sit on the bonbon throne you know watch all of the things that you're describing I would watch everything you're describing. Mr. Baldwin, that was a really incisive take on the white liberal. Try the next hot sauce. See how hot that is. Are you feeling it yet? That's the second one. He's so busy screaming, eating the hot sauce, and at the very end, they just have to jam in. And remember, racism may be endemic in our society. Anyway, that's all the time we have. Let the record show he. The seventh sauce was the one that got him. A little rough. Whenever I talk to you, I'm reminded that you have this insane knowledge of history and also movies, pop culture. And all I will say is that there's a thread around that you are part of and a bunch of other really sharp, really funny people. And I rarely contribute because I have a knowledge of these things. But I don't have a knowledge of these things. But I can't keep up with you guys. I feel like someone who's got a single-shot Derringer and you all have these very sophisticated, gas-powered Russian machine guns firing away. And I'll just keep in. And a combination, the word insane, a combination of genuine knowledge of history and then the most useless showbiz trivia you've ever heard. In equal amounts. And this is what I want to bring up because we might as well go for it. There's this obsession that you and your cohorts have. And I think I have it a little bit. I think I have it a little bit too, but not as much as you guys with, there was, everyone knows Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin, Lewis and Martin. And then at some point it was decided there should be, it was guess a rip-off or something, but it was these two guys who were supposed to maybe like, okay, Lewis and Martin are kind of winding down. So we've, it's a shameless, it's two guys. One is Sammy Petrillo, the other's Duke Mitchell. And it's not, it's Martin and Lewis, but it's not. It's not Martin and Lewis. And it's kind of horrifying. Like when they replaced the Duke brothers. I mean, the Duke boys. No, that is, and by the way, I'm not saying this to be joking. That was subtle compared to what we're talking about. Yeah. And like this mutant amplified version of what Martin and Lewis were. They were in Eichelbeck, Sammy Petrillo and Duke Mitchell. And Sammy Petrillo was doing Jerry Lewis, like almost like it's body horror. Like, like it looked like his face was going to come apart. It's so unsettling. It's a real thing. And then they, they do. They do these movies like Sammy Petrillo and Duke Mitchell meet. They did one movie. Uh-huh. They only did one called Bela Lugosi meets a Brooklyn gorilla. Uh-huh. There's no Brooklyn gorilla in the movie. There's, I mean, a guy get, Duke gets turned into a gorilla. I can't believe I just tried to qualify that. I just said, well, Duke gets turned into a gorilla. So there is a gorilla. It's, it's Bela Lugosi at the height of his morphine addiction. It's these two. And those on the poster too. At the height of his morphine addiction. You've never seen him like this? I've never seen him like this before. Goof to his eyeballs. We, yeah, we all went, we all organized a night to go see it at the new Beverly recently. Yeah. I think I was doing a travel show. I would have gone to that. I was out of town, but I, you know, I check in on this thread. Cause you guys are going all the time. I mean, if you guys are chattering away at 4 AM and occasionally, uh, you know, when I'm up in the night to apply a cream or an ointment, um, I'll, I'll check in with you guys and it's like, oh my God, there it is. But you guys have this endless. This endless fascination with this mutant version of Jerry Lewis, which is a funny sentence because you don't need a mutant version of Jerry Lewis, but they found one, they found one and it's in the face where they both look like them in a bizarro way. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. But you can see it. And it's like, you can tell how angry Bela Lugosi is being in this movie. Like he is openly snapping at Sammy Petrillo and unlike the Jerry Lewis movies where when Jerry's doing his stuff, people are like, oh my God, he's like, oh my God, he's like laughing or, or enjoying it. All the other characters in this movie are openly hostile. It's like, shut up, stop. Like they're just yelling at him. You're not Martin and Lewis. No, stop this. And, and then they, I, I could listen. Let me tell you what this, I like, I like how you just said, listen, like this marriage is over. No, no, no. I want to show you the essence of this thread. One night, uh, we, for some reason we started all, uh, texting and emailing back and forth about soupy sales. And then you chimed in and it was, it is 3 a.m. I'm in a tent in Africa. This is the one hour that I get wifi and you have me looking up soupy sales videos on YouTube. Like you're literally in the cradle. He goes, I'm in the cradle of civilization and you idiots. I'm watching soupy sales videos on YouTube. And also, you know, what's amazing is you guys draw me in, you know, and you were talking about the Ritz brothers. That was. That was, that might've been it. I think it was the rich brothers. The rich brothers who were sort of a version, uh, you know, they, they mutant Marx brothers, mutant Marx brothers. And you were talking about one of the Ritz brothers and I, I am in Ghana and I'm shooting a travel show and I'm shooting a, a, a, a travel show and I can't sleep and it's three in the morning and my phone goes, I'm like, what the hell? Maybe it's Liza contacting me to say that our house was just stolen. And I look at it. And you guys are all talking about Harry Ritz and Harry Ritz. He was the funny one. I wanted him to leave his brothers. He wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. He was loyal, but then he made this movie late in his career and I don't know. It's kind of embarrassing. And I'm suddenly looking at clips of it. And then I come in to Harry Ritz's defense and I'm like, yeah, you're again, I am in the cradle of civilization in a tent. I should be on the belt. Here's, here's what made me laugh so hard. I've always, I've never mentioned this to you. I, for when you, when you said I'm in a tent in Ghana and I'm looking at rich brothers videos on YouTube, I just picture like there's this, um, like a, like a cheetah or something like in the bush, like looking over and there's this all silent tent and some of this little light goes on in the tent. You hear his Mr. And he went one day. This cat's like, oh fuck, is that weirdo doing? I'm just trying to get away from it. But that happened at one point, this little glowing on in a tent. And that was Conan because of us. Oh my God. I just love, but I just, I, I had to bring that up because if you, if you guys want to amuse yourselves, uh, Sammy Petrillo, Duke Mitchell are, and also there was this feel, there was this almost sense. I remember reading an interview with Jerry Lewis where he, he blessed these guys. He was like, I blessed them. Of course he blessed them because he said, well, someone's got to keep it going because we're almost, you know, we're winding it down and I want to, I'm tired. And so I want someone to take over being Jerry Lewis. And I thought, that's not how it works. We don't need someone else. Maybe you should go away for a while. I just love the idea that I would say, you know what? Uh, I'm stepping, I can't step down yet because I haven't found someone else who can be that way. I have the funny name and the hair and the, you know, the, the pitchy voice. I haven't found someone who would disconnect from the atmosphere of Africa to watch soupy sails getting hit with a pie at 3am that, and I'll know that when I see it in his eyes, I'll know it, but I haven't found it yet. And then I can rest. Then I know. Then I can retire to my ancestral manse and write my memoirs when I find another idiot to do this shit that I'm doing. But I think one of the reasons that we're, we are so obsessed. With this stuff is because, you know, showbiz is a, is a very rough up and this is nothing nude, but showbiz is very up and down and there can be extremes of up and down. And some people, they think the up will last forever and it doesn't. And you still have to show up when you're not necessarily doing what might be the most glorious or looked at work. And this past week with, you know, like Netflix is a joke. I know that a lot of people were like, well, this guy's in an arena. I'm like, but you get to do comedy. You still get to do it and you get to show up like Nicolas Cage has made some bad movies, but he was never bad. And then he showed up and did something unique. And even with, when you watch Bela Lugosi meets a Brooklyn gorilla, as pissed as Bela is with Sammy Petrillo, who's literally hanging on him. And one time he openly yells at him and it's clearly not in the script. He just is like, go close the cages. I just screamed at him, but he's still showing up. And doing the work like he's, and that always fuels me when I see that. That's why I'm obsessed with that level of showbiz. Uh, you and I have several things in common, I believe, but I think our height, our brute strength, our Celtic blood, but you know, like one of the things that, uh, I think you've made this point and I've made this point, uh, which is that we weren't class clowns. I was never a class clown. And in fact, I never liked the class clown. Not that I was jealous. I just thought he's making too much noise. It's, and I was very quiet and kind of shy about being funny. I was, I wasn't the class clown, but I was in the class clown click. In other words, we, we were the comedy nerds, but we weren't the, Hey, it was the, we knew all the routines. We knew all the, I mean, we like went deep when, when other kids, when other kids were like quoting Monty Python. group could quote Derek and Clive at like, we would always go for the even deeper stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was that that's the kind of comedy we liked. And so you would, you're not the kind of person that would get up in front of everyone else and do something when you're in high school or grade school. I'd feel a little, no. Yeah. Not quite. Yeah. So when you get into standup, did you have to fight through a reluctance to get up in front of people to, in order to do it? Yeah, I had to, well, it's weird. Um, for the first thing that I did was because I was so reluctant to go up, I did this bigger version of myself to hide the fact that I'm not comfortable with myself being up here. So it was a very much a stage persona and a stage presence. And it took me like six years to work through that. It wasn't until I moved to San Francisco, um, four years into it. I started seeing comedians like Brian Posehn and Margaret Cho and Greg Barron and Greg Proops that were actually themselves on stage rather than, Hey, I'm talking to you now you're going on. I got to get into my state. They, they could literally be mid sentence ago. I'll be right back. And they would just go up and talk. And so now it doesn't really feel like I'm nervous when I'm on stage because I've become so comfortable just being up there and going, this is what's going on in here, you know, and I've also got over the whole, let me point out what's stupid about the world. And here's my cool take. Now my, my point of view is so much more, listen to this idiotic thing I did. You're not going to believe this. Like it, like it's more insightful that way, but it's weird. I had to get over that by first embracing that out of nervousness. And then I, now I can just kind of be myself. It takes years to grind that out of you to the point where you can go up and say, I know who I am. You know who I am. Yeah. That's one of the things on the one hand, I'm so glad with a lot of the new online media and cell phones and social media that people have way easier access to their, the gatekeepers don't power that they used to have. I don't think there are gatekeepers that really there there's not really anymore, but the one bad thing about it is what you just talked about the years that it takes for you to get through that persona sometimes and become yourself. A lot of people, because they're immediately filming themselves as they start, they're not, they don't have those years in the wilderness that people like my generation had, where you figure out who you are. And a lot of people are getting stuck in a very early persona that they're comfortable with, but as they grow and mature and evolve, they're like, I don't want to do that anymore. I want to do this thing. You know, like I just think of all of the, the, the, the rock stars that we know and love now that what if they had been stuck in their early personas forever? Well, I brought, you know, my example was if the current world had existed in 1962. Yeah. Everyone would have been sick of the Beatles before they even got to the Ed Sullivan show. Yes. Because they would have seen, I mean, no matter where you were on the world, you have seen thousands of hours of videos, them in the Cavern Club and then British Beatlemania, they're touring over there in the Netherlands, they're in Germany, they're, and then they're coming to the Ed Sullivan show. Yeah, we know, we know. And you know what? I think their best work was their early work. To us, that was the big introduction after they had been, had their legendary. Where did they come from? Where, where did this come from? These haircuts. Yeah. And so, and, and we would have seen a version of the Beatles and that's how we would have pegged them. Yeah. They would have been the ones in the German strip club in Hamburg in the last century. Yeah. And so, and, and we would have seen a version of the Beatles in leather jackets, lighting condoms on fire and throwing them into the audience and doing antics and being crazy. Like that's the Beatles I know. And then by the time Brian Epstein got ahold of them, made them the ones that became, they're like, I don't know, put the lead beat. You guys are goofballs. Yeah. Yeah. We wouldn't have accepted it. No, I think that's, that's it's weird to say, but it was a luxury. Although now there seems to be a quiet rebellion against that where there, there does seem to be whatever the generation after alpha, a lot of them seem to be like, you don't need to film me yet. I'm we'll wait until I figure it out, which is what, cause they're learning from the mistakes of the ones that came before them. Yeah. A lot of the influencers that are now trapped in the, Oh God, I got a, I got a mukbang again. That's what people are watching. I got to eat 10 cans of baked beans. If I want to sell my new book, I don't know. Anyway, my guest today is Conan O'Brien show coming out. Yeah. Why are you wearing a yachting cap? Something I thought I tried in 1982. But I thought I should bring back out again. You look like an idiot. Um, you know, one of the things that, uh, your fame and your success is not wasted on you because you get to do all these things that you're genuinely passionate about. You get to dip into these projects and these things, not just stand up, but there are so many different ways that you have taken your, you know, natural, uh, get to jump into you're in this star Trek, strange new world. Yeah. And you're, you're like, this is, I could picture you. If someone suggested this to you when you were 11 or 12, you'd say that's, that's insane. That could never happen. Right. And also the fact that I am in a show that is being made by people that grew up at the same time as me that loved star Trek that, that also went, but what if this thing had like everything that you love, you will always then, but then why don't they add this aspect to it? So. The fact that, yeah, I'm playing a Vulcan, but it's a Vulcan who's obsessed with human culture and, um, his name is Doug. His name is a Vulcan named Doug, which is my favorite thing, but his parents were obsessed. So they gave him, it's the same way as like people like hippies giving their kids names, you know, like, like American, uh, Indian names or first name turned into like starshine. Yeah, exactly. So, um, why wouldn't that happen in another culture? Why he, unlike Spock, who has, has kind of struck this balance, he's so clumsy with it, but because he really loves it. And that's a really real thing with an artistic edge with an artistic edge. I love that. Um, cause these aren't even logical. How can you be a Vulcan? Who's like, well, that is, I mean, I'm not, it's, I'm just curious how it all comes together. Uh, it comes together of, I have to play it of all of my, the way that I usually am passionate about something like on movie or something, but. What if I have to, I'm forced by my biology to always filter it through this calm logic. And what would that feel like? So it's always this like kind of bubbling underneath and you can see him wanting to, you know, kind of pop up a little bit and be, but he's like, no, that's not, that's not what Vulcans do. That's I'm not capable of doing that. Even though I'm feeling it. Does he wake and bake? Is he, he is constantly still very logical. I'm going to require a few, a couple of days of bed rotting. Like there's, you know, like, I don't really know what, what a Vulcan artist would do like that. Yeah. How would he, I am not feeling this, which is strange because I should not be ruled by my feelings. And yet there is not, oh, I never thought of it. Wow. You know what? I'm doing some more episodes. So maybe they'll go into that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it's, it's a possibility. I'm, there's another obsession I've had and my, uh, head writer, Mike Sweeney has it as well. We're lost in space. Oh boy. Lost in space is insane. And when you, when you watch Star Trek, it is, it looks like the most, the highest art possible when you compare it to lost in space. And there are these clips, uh, on that you can watch on YouTube of, and, and the character to keep your eye on is Dr. Smith. Dr. Zachary Smith. For many reasons. For many reasons. He's played by Jonathan Smith. He pulls it into his lungs and, and then shits it out. It is amazing. Truly incredible. And the storylines, I think everyone was on acid who wrote this TV show, but my, the other day I happened on one where an alien Ray turns Dr. Smith into a hippie and he's got long hippie hair and he's dancing. And of course, you know, you're like, and, and there are, there's a crazy wacky cause they're the, clearly the show is trying to get down with the scene. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a one-year-old writers probably at a Renmar or a Warner brothers. Like see this in the paper. Can we work this into the work? This is an episode, the hippie thing. Yeah. But how would there be hippies in space? I just, a Ray just to start with a Ray. Everything's just a Ray. And then, and then they would, they would clearly to come up with ideas, go to the prop shop at Warner brothers or wherever. And they'd say, Hey, I just found a giant Cleopatra, you know, uniform. Okay. Um, there's a big puff of smoke and a Cleopatra alien shows up and she has a Ray that turns them all into mummies. Yeah. Like they just worked backwards from the costumes that were available. What's available. Yeah. There, somebody pointed out there's a, there's a episode of the outer limits, uh, that is, was, was the basis of the movie, the Terminator it's written by Harlan Ellison called soldier. And there's a helmet that this future soldier wears in his future soldier battles. And that helmet is the, is the helmet that Robin Williams wears in the opening episode of Mork and Mindy when he comes to earth. Same one. It's same one. But they were just like, we need like Gary Marshall. He should wear some kind of outer space. What can we use this? Like they're just in the, like you said, they're in the warehouse. They put the, that's this alien thing. Once like the famous guy in empire strikes back evacuating cloud city is carrying the space equipment, but it's actually an ice cream maker. You can hear it churning away. They've given him, a name and a whole backstory. They've written him into the thing. He's a guy. And, and that, how do we know it was an ice cream maker someone found out they if you look at it someone matched it with at the time it was they just clearly just spray painted it white and go here yeah but then they worked that prop into the first season of the mandalorian that's right it's a thing for transporting like biological matter so they had to work that into the yeah so that's what they worked at you could i mean we live in this world that's so i mean you know people decry oh the internet era and are we losing our humanity like yeah but think of the connections you can make you could do an amazing documentary where you someone could make an amazing documentary where they track a prop that's made in the 1950s for like a would be for like a like a goofy movie but then it shows up here but then it shows up there because people didn't throw stuff away no and it went back into the prop room and um i've been in some of the prop warehouses there's stuff like oh shoot this from a different angle this could work as this yeah but all those there's a tom sharpling who i mentioned earlier does the best show does hilarious yeah so funny he did this thing i i think about it like once a week and i didn't know this till he pointed out you know the show the monsters yeah of course yeah there's 73 episodes of that show do you know how many seasons they ran two two two yeah and they so they were cranking that thing out and tom was like this is a writing session on the monsters have we put herman in a like a baby bonnet holding a rattle yet all right write that in i'm gonna go to muso and frank's have four martinis and a steak and then drunk drive home i'll see you tomorrow like that is how those shows were what do we have what can we use yeah we we got to do 38 of these but also no one was thinking about reruns no no one was thinking about this being a body of work boxed set or box set no one's thinking about that everyone's thinking get this thing done get it out and then let's do another one let's get our check and then we'll go to muso and frank's and drink at one o'clock in the afternoon oh and there's jack webb at the next table and he's completely smashed yeah he's six martinis ahead yeah yeah um but you look at these shows and you just see they weren't afraid to use all the same plots nope there's an old actors yeah over and over and and the same the the plots over and over and over again same actors within the same show different characters and different characters yes yeah and one thing they did was i don't know how many times when i was a kid growing up watching different tv sitcoms and reruns i'd see the two people have a fight so it's like the skipper and gilligan on gilligan's island have an argument so they paint a line down the middle of the of the hut and then it's you stay on your side i'll stay on mine but your side has the has the door then you'll have to use the window you know but your side my side has the food well then you could you know it's and and then you'd watch the monsters and and grandpa and herman have a fight and they paint a line down the middle of the room and then you watch the monkeys and they do it and you're just like no one had any shame about number 17 yeah let's crank it up for this week yeah let's do a number nine on them we gotta get listen i gotta get my martinis it's it's 12 30 and it always was a white line too that even down to that detail yeah and you know yeah uh that that kind of stuff is and also they they didn't understand well they didn't because no one could predict it youtube freeze frame you know being able to capture little moments we're like oh my god look at this in the background you know there's there's an episode of that that show the naked city yes yeah uh which was shot just handheld in new york in the early 60s which now it's so valuable because a it's all this stuff in new york that doesn't exist anymore that they just casually filmed and also it's all the first roles of people like dustin hoffman and robert duvall and they're all in this it's like day players um but there's a there's an episode with burgess meredith where he plays a greenwich village poet who wakes up drunk and there's been a murder and he doesn't know um and he stops at a newsstand to look at the paper like what day is it and behind him on the newsstand is copies of amazing fantasy number 15 which is the first appearance of spider-man just hanging there and anyone and the prop person just put those up or they went to that news can we just film here fine done and then just walked and and you know when the the the comics came the next week i was like well these didn't sell boom like that's like that's millions of dollars of props just hanging there in the background no one used to think there would ever be freeze frame available so they and and more in line with what we were saying which is people were just cranking this stuff out and moving on no one ever thought that they'd be whole cults of people that love to hate watch yeah and then have the power of freeze frame so recently i think matt o'brien and i or sweeney and i were watching one of the death wish movies with charles bronson and there's a scene where charles bronson wants to kill these guys in a restaurant and it's the most insane plot he comes in pretending to be a wine salesman he takes out i'm not kidding he takes out you know he should just go in there with a gun and kill the people that's what he does in every other scene right i know this one he comes in pretends to be a wine wine salesman and he's he goes over to their table and says hey i got this wine here you might like it it's a good wine and they're like huh well we're okay and he goes that's spoken like a true wine exactly and he goes hey it's red you ever see red wine you ever see red but you didn't think that something new if you read it's wet and it's red and it's wet on your mouth you can sip it and he um he says he i think he opens the bottle and he sets it down in front of them and then he gets real nervous and again he's like i don't know what to do with this i don't know what to do with this and the guy says who's sitting at the table with the other mob figure says hey don't i know you and he goes i don't think so i gotta go and he's trying to get away because clearly something's up with this bottle of wine and the guy goes i think i know you and um and then charles bronson squirms away and basically he runs off and runs into the kitchen of the restaurant covers his ears like wiley coyote and there's a huge explosion you cut back to the table there's a huge explosion freeze frame you have freeze frame now so what they did was yay here we go cut to charles bronson running away and going to the kitchen putting his hands over his ears they cut back to the table they replaced the mobsters with mannequins and put them in the same suits it looks terrible and it's just two frames but you can freeze on it and some of these guys are mannequins and then i guess they tried a real explosion but it didn't work so they just did one of those things where they made smoke go in front of the the film oh in some awful way no so you see these guys freeze and then a cloud and you're like they were just trying to get through the day and i'm watching it over and over you have it yeah over and over and over again and i'm just overjoyed do you want to see the whole clip or just the mannequins i want to see it all i can edit it down let's edit it down go ahead let it roll let's have some fun watch the whole chuck to the beginning to the beginning by the way when they read it from the beginning headphones on what a minute 30. when they rigged this explosion uh charles had already left yeah like mr bronson's already left just do this he's not here anymore he starts by convincing him that he's really he's got a good wine this is late death wish you can tell by his costume too yeah exactly not bad let's see what your customers say uh no i don't think that's a good idea they'll love it uh i'm just gonna randomly pour liquor for you yeah i'm a guy off the street lucky day today bottle of wine on the way not bad hey don't i know you from someplace i don't think so is that danny trail hey it's danny trail wow i know your face did you ever live in san francisco i'm from idaho i got a brother in idaho what city i'm from idaho boise i'm thinking of opening up but don't i know you i never look oh wait you gotta go back and freeze oh my god go back and freeze okay ride at knott's berry farm oh my isn't that great why why you know the sunglasses guy's not so bad but the danny trejo guy danny trejo they did not i mean that is isn't that one of the great you want to put a mustache on this gregory peck mannequin we have is close enough i don't know what to tell you look at the stains on the ceiling i just i just but here's the thing i always say there's good and bad in everything and when people decry this new era we're in i think of the joy that i have had on youtube oh being able to freeze frame people just trying to get through the day or they're making this tv show in the 60s they're doing the best they can they don't think anyone's ever gonna look at it it'll air once who's gonna watch it again why would you they're never gonna wait a minute someone's gonna there's gonna be a thing called dvds they're gonna collect every episode and put it in a butt that doesn't make sense who would do that it's gonna be on a cloud that anyone can see at any time and people are gonna have radio shows where they criticize it over and over and over again yeah yeah people gonna have hang on a red-headed giant's gonna freeze frame this him he's gonna he's gonna sit with a hobbit and they're gonna laugh at our work it doesn't make sense it'll never happen you're you're in la la land we'll be right back with more red-headed giant the hobbit uh talk to me about tea and scotch this is you've done is this your 10th 11th 11th is my 11th but who's counting yeah who's well i mean that's i didn't even realize it was my 11th so we were they were putting together all the promo materials and went i was like this is my 11th right so that's yeah that's uh i don't mean at this point now i'm not trying to think in terms of i think that like uh posterity reputation and cool are just traps yeah to get get in the way of you doing the work you're supposed to be doing it's other people that that short out your legacy later do the work now 100 yeah and it but it took me a little while i was getting in my own head about stuff and now i'm just like no i get to do comedy and people want to come see me and i get to do venues that i really love and this is me at a very very small club i did a club uh it's in um madison called comedy on uh main comedy on state a couple years ago and it was i hadn't done club in like years and they're like hey i was getting ready for do another special they went why don't you do this little club to get ready and the show was so electric the audience is right there and i was like how do i shoot something in this space small so that's what i did i directed it we set up the you can see the other cameras the lights like i wanted it to look raw i wanted it to be i just and i don't fault anyone being in big theaters and arenas that's fine but there's something i just don't it's like some rock and roll it when it gets too gigantic it kind of loses the no i've had the same thought many times that that's why some music just sounds amazing in a small club man it's why some food just i don't know what it is but it tastes better when it's a small restaurant or a stand that you've grabbed you know you're walking around like you're just right there yeah i had a small studio uh for the late night show 6a was a very small studio and i remembered seeing it for the first time and thinking this is too small we need something bigger because we're gonna have two crazy ideas we're gonna have a triumph the comic dog and we're gonna have you know uh you know a lot of you know all these crazy characters and we're gonna do this big stuff it turned out it was such a blessing to have this small space and i think that's something that's i now don't take for i don't take it for granted i think it's really good for something like this is even in that even in that small space you feel that clock ticking until the next commercial break yeah we can get at things that you can't get at on a tv panel segment because there's no clock ticking we're gonna talk and talk and we'll cut out some of the rough spots but we're actually talking and there's a whole different not you it's what you always said about sctv it's the least needy sketch show ever done and this format is not needy it's not and and doing a doing this smaller club there was so less neediness about it because we're all right here i'm not like oh god i got this big theater i gotta i gotta make this count this is like we're doing a few this little club i can be loose yeah and what i'm learning especially from i don't know if you've seen josh johnson right yeah incredible the turnover now is so much quicker i can shoot this stuff get it up on i'm on a new platform called 800 pound uh gorilla gorilla gorilla uh comedy plus and um and get it up on youtube so much quicker and be so much more immediate and so that feels like oh one less gatekeeper yeah you know now i can just and i can set up the next one like once this comes out june 9th i'll never do that material again i'm working on the new stuff and it just keeps me working and there's just so much less pressure yeah it just feels so much better yeah you know the uh and the themes you're exploring are they new themes well there is there anything new in this that i mean obviously your stuff is always it's always fresh material but is there a theme that has surprised you that's come along at this stage in your life yeah the thing that has surprised me is i'm becoming way more and then i was kind of uh touching on this a little bit in the last special uh week and i was like oh my god i'm all scream too is that i'm becoming way more comfortable with being overwhelmed and not having an answer to things and i think that comes with i'm a big believer in you got to know when it's time to let the next generation kind of come up and maybe they have the answers that you don't i think a lot of people white knuckle their youth and they white knuckle their authority and you got to go and you can still i'm going to do comedy forever i love doing stand-up but there will be this embracing of this is beyond me like i do a whole thing about ai and the whole point of the bit is at one point i'm like i don't have an ending to this because this is such a massive subject but that is so much more honest that i'm overwhelmed by the horror of this and i think that's a thing that a lot of comedians are nervous to embrace is that you will eventually come to a point where you're like i don't know what this is i don't know what is happening this is you know i did my part you guys got to do your part i'm weirdness now off to the sides when someone tells me they're not sure i am immediately attracted to them i like them and i trust them yeah when someone tells me i know exactly what's going to happen uh and i know all things i um i i want nothing to do with them and there's a kind of comedy that i never been a big fan of which is i know and you don't let me tell you how it is yeah i'm gonna i'm here to tell you how it is i'm here to tell you how it is and then i've always liked people that admit that they're down in the muck with me i'm in the muck yeah we're all in the muck yeah find it help me find a way out here it's what we talked about the last time i was on the show that your your term wisdom rock yeah you hate wisdom rock it's that let me take my hand no you're 20 and and there's a lot of that now in um stand up i think uh mark maron said there's some comedians doing comedy there's some comedians holding rallies yes and uh and that was such a yes that's kind of what's going on and we need to get back to the confidence of someone that can get up there and go i have no idea yeah i don't know what is going on um maybe we will get to that but that's that's where i am and i'm so much more comfortable being yeah in that and and also being able to look back at some of my earlier stuff where i was doing they tell you guys how it is oh you're 23 that's why you're saying that because you know which is a that's also kind of real wisdom is when you're like let me tell you what an idiot i was i used to say this kind of stuff yeah if you can laugh at yourself at that period yeah so there's a lot of that and there's a lot of just very raw um there's there's a lot of uh my my daughter it's it's it's the relationship now who's a teenager and so now it's becoming more about oh she's actually right about this and i'm not and maybe i need to like okay you you figure this out um that what it's also an interesting place to get to where it used to be like oh here's this goofy thing that my daughter did and we got to help guide her now it's like oh my daughter just explained this thing to me that i didn't understand yeah and just completely laid it out for me so that's really interesting the roles have shifted how old are you um during the late 40s oh wow yeah yeah so my daughter when i was i had my daughter when i was uh no i have a daughter who's 22 and a son is 20 and but you know what they've been smarter than me for so long and you will attest to that absolutely they were when they were a kid little kids and would come by the office yeah they were not having my bullshit anything technology related we'd just be like ask beckett this was when he was like six years old the times that i've handed my phone or ipad over to alice and go can please help me yeah make it do the thing make the screen go away i've handed that thing to her oh boy yeah well uh tea and scotch is coming out it's going to be on youtube june 9th june 9th and i'm really looking forward to it thanks you're always uh funny and uh delightful i just i'm gonna end with this you were on my tv show 44 times oh my god yeah i thought i looked that up today um and even the the the computer was upset and on this podcast as many as anybody right on this podcast i think you've been this is the fourth time so yeah which doesn't but it's always it's always funny like when you were on the show on tbs as long as i've been working for come when we knew you were coming on we knew we were gonna laugh yeah and that it was going to be just a really good well but also when i came on to this show i knew that yes we would do pre-interviews but it was always like it'll turn into just us going oh man this thing yeah yeah and that's going to be better than anything that's going to be better than anything yeah that's good it's the stuff that you know it was dessert it was like oh i can relax a little bit yeah yeah yeah so i was always very and i know i speak for a lot of comedians who are like oh when you're on conan you're just you're actually talking with someone else that understands comedy and it's not we're looking for a gotta get a punchline every 10 seconds it's right right hey we can just just chill let's talk and it always ended up being way more funny because oh good yeah yeah listen it's it's a mitzvah a blessing anytime you you come by please come back for anything and everything my daughter and her friends watch old conan clips the nbc show at like they're just freeze frame it look conan's a mannequin just before you even try to hide that stuff though no you embrace i would embrace it you embrace it the same way that like sctv will like we don't have any money look at this yeah yeah but i just love the way that they will react to like whenever um they i showed her arty kendall the singing ghost yes yeah and her whole thing was Like, he just makes it worse and worse. Like, every time. time he's like well let me do this one for the lady and then it's 10 times more like they just love that it just he was a crooner brian stack is a crooner ghost who would come on the show and he was a ghost and then he would sing because he died in the 30s he would sing songs that were sexist racist you know all this stuff and i bet also that he thinks you're like you're welcome here's a nice little song and it's always the worst thing you've ever heard oh i gotta look i got a little something about the irish oh the irish love to drink and all this stuff that's not appropriate anymore and then i i think in one episode i said i'm surprised people stood for this and he went well they didn't i was killed by a mob i'm sorry i've watched it i'm surprised you weren't murdered he goes i was murdered a bunch of women threw me down a well and then you're like well good he goes hey you have a hot irish temper i wrote a little song about the irish and then it's the worst thing well you've ever and and also but like that stuff of by the way and i remember i watched the very first arty kendall sketch i was in a hotel room in new york i watched it's it's the one the very first one where you don't let him finish his third song because you're just like no we're cutting away and i had to re-watch it to say that um i also it's about the the irish of irish people's brains are made of corn yeah and um and i and i texted brian stack i was like i am laughing so hard at this guy already complete and now there's like collections on it's like youtube is like this mini criterion collection of great comedy sketches now no i i just uh always love well shout out to brian stack and shout out to and also my favorite conceit is that i was always supposed to be the host who but i would entertain all our sketches were me saying okay we'll be what's that sir yes i'm a beekeeper and i'd be like well uh okay you can have like i in no way say no this is a show i'm rules for living forever mummy from the future you know i'm a crazy man off the street okay crazy man take your 10 minutes yeah it's like you're at the bottom of the decision-making ladder on a show that you're hosting that i'm hosting that has my name that has my name in it uh pat and oswald we salute you we love you come on back 44 times please oh i will thank you conan o'brien needs a second chance to be a part of the show thank you for watching and i'll see you next time gina batista and brick khan you can rate and review this show on apple podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode got a question for conan call the team coco hotline at 669-587-2847 and leave a message it too could be featured on a future episode you can also get three free months of sirius xm when you sign up at siriusxm.com slash conan and if you haven't already please subscribe to conan o'brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded you