Pastors CONFRONT Top 5 Megachurch Myths (ft. Joby Martin) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

I don't care if you have oceanfront property in Ponte Vedra Beach or you're in cell block D in Marion Correctional. If you put your faith in Jesus, he'll change everything about everything about everything. The unspoken rule of the world has with pastors, you take it easy on us, we'll take it easy on you. And the second a pastor breaks that rule, all hell will break loose on your life. But that's the moment that all of heaven starts to break loose in your church. Amen. Well, hey, Live Free Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas, but the Live Free Nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. So whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now, enjoy the podcast. Bishop Joby Martin, welcome to Live Free. Pastor Josh Howerton, it's always a pleasure. Dude, this is awesome. So we're actually recording right here from. The retreat center. Where are we? Woodbine, Georgia. Woodbine, Georgia. This is awesome, man. We're leading a cohort with some great dudes. The future is bright in the local American church, brother. Yeah. So you want to real quick, because they don't know what I'm talking about. What's the postage stamp that we're doing right now? Do you mean with the pastors? Yeah, yeah. We're doing for some other people what some other people did for us, man. This was your idea. I had finished something at Lake Point, and we're hanging out by your fire pit, and you talked me into getting together some of the young guys that God's just got his hand on. And spending some time with them. And so I said, if you'll do it with me, I'll do it. And here we are. It's awesome, man. Yeah. This is your second time on the pod. Yeah, I know. I'm excited about it. Let me just, I'm going to say something, and then every time I have you on, I'm going to say the same thing, because I want people to know it. And it probably makes you uncomfortable, but I'll do it every time. In 2019, here's my little thing. In 2019, for people who don't know, I had eight months of pretty aggressive anxiety attacks. And way back then, I decided I would preach news preacher, and I decided on Joby Martin. And so when I was 2019, for those eight months, every single Monday, I would just wake up, walk down to the bass pond, open my Bible, get my coffee, and listen to you preach. And I heard a million times things like, what's propitiation? It's a payment that satisfies. What's condemnation mean? It's a builder's term, meaning unfit for you. I can do all the things. Yeah. And dude, yeah, I don't know why I can't talk about it with my eyes. I wouldn't. But the Lord used you to pull me out of the hardest. It was the hardest season of my entire life. And I'd take a bullet for you. And I'm very, very grateful for your friendship and the way God's used you in my life. Thank you. You're welcome. I knew about you before I knew you. I had been watching from afar because I knew Stroop so well. Yeah. And I was just cheering you on when you took over and took off. And so it was kind of crazy that it had any kind of impact in your life whatsoever. And I've been a big fan of all the things you've been doing for a long time. Well, it's significant. Bro, I tell my church this all the time. Literally, this last week's sermon, I went through this whole thing. I was like, Joby, he's like, if Billy Graham and Larry the Cable Guy had a baby. And I was like, hey, man, he's my preacher. 10% of everything you hear came from Joby Mark. I tell him all the things. Well. You're pastoring my church vicariously. Lake Point is an amazing church. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the thing is that the people that criticize those of us that. Quote other preachers and don't spend 45 minutes just footnoting our sermons. I mean, we give credit often and we sprinkle it in there. So I've said it before. You can't steal what's freely given. And so, you know, I've learned from so many people. I use your stuff all the time. I try to say my friend Josh Howard and said, but you can't say that like nine times in one paragraph. You know what I mean? I've heard you do this and I've done this too before. Occasionally. I'll just stop and I'll say much of this sermon came from one of these four people. Yep. You know, but it's kind of sad that we live in a day and age where we. I mean, I'm all for giving credit, but just to even have to change anything because of what the naysayers will say. Well, that's one of the things I want to talk about. So like, let me just, if you're listening, let me give you a heads up where I'm going to go. First of all, both of us, by God's grace, and we say this, I pray with the most amount of humility before the Lord. We're seeing unique things happen in our churches. And I want to talk about, I think both of us baptized. We baptized almost 900 people last week. You guys, how many people did you baptize a second ago? 927. Yeah, man. Last Sunday for us. I don't even know how to describe it. And when I was a kid, I could not have even fathomed it. So I want to talk about like what we're seeing around the country. I want to, if we feel comfortable, maybe we'll edit this out. I want to talk about new realities facing pastors where it's like, there's like a whole online industry of pastor critique, which is new. Bro, that's new. That's like, that's a little new to me. It's kind of weird, isn't it? It's a little weird, man. Some things the Bible calls sin. Other people call ministry. That's weird. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. Because, dude, I will say, for listeners, I'll probably only do this once, is like I want to help people who are in churches because they don't know how to think about it. They just see crap online and they're like, is that true? And I'll double down. On Live Free, I don't know when it's coming out. So for me, it was Monday. Yeah. Because you talked about calling out sheeps and wolves coking. Yeah. Particularly in your state, man. Yeah. You got a crazy person trying to be in charge. Just a smidge. Bro. And his quote unquote pastor. Yeah. So anyway, there is a place for that. Yeah. But the Bible talks a lot about disunity. It doesn't say good things. We'll get there. Okay. We'll get there. And then, dude, I just, you know, we'll do our best to be as wise with it as we can. Okay. One of the most frequent questions we get, because like Live Free is a lot of people, but it's a bunch of young dudes. So like one of the big questions guys have is like they're looking at demographics. And it's like, man, young women skewing hard left. Yeah. Young men skewing hard right. And then honestly, dude, there's a bunch of young guys going like, where do I find a good wife now? Well, didn't you find your wife from a demographic study? I did not. So we'll get to that too. Oh, gosh. And then last thing I want to do is we'll just try not to step in it, is rapid fire megachurch myths. Great. Like objections that people do. So let me start right here, man. Because like I like hearing the stories of the people that influence me. Give me the three minute, how did a kid from, you know, maybe a rougher background from Dillon, South Carolina, go from there to pastoring? I'll just say it. I'll say something you won't say. The fastest growing church plant in America. What is the fastest growing church plant in American history? Well, my daddy said the best thing ever come out of Dillon, South Carolina is I-95. That's a fact. Bro, we didn't grow up in church at all. We would go on Easter only. And great church, I'm sure. And I just didn't connect. It just wasn't part of our world. I got in some trouble in high school, found myself at a camp run by one of the deacons, Coach Bulley, from that church. And that's where I met Jesus. Reenacted the crucifixion of Christ. And for the first time, when Jesus says it is finished, I knew it counted for me. And this was old school Baptist. So we sang Just As I Am about 18 times around a campfire on the last night of camp. And then Coach Lee gets up and says, I think there's one more. And it was me. And I got saved. And then I started working at that camp, like just cutting the grass and stuff. And then one day, I'm like 18 years old. And I'm in the back of the room, maybe 19. And Coach Lee said, boy, when the guy's done singing, you're up. And he was singing, I am a C with an overhead projector. Hand motions. Yeah, you know, you had to have that one person like hold the words and like move them up and down. I was that guy in the youth ministry. Let's go. And I was like, coach. Anyway, I told him I wasn't comfortable. And just imagine 1980s hardcore football coach. He said, boy, did you say comfortable? You think Daniel was comfortable in the lion's den? He's preaching me a sermon back there. And you think Paul and Silas are comfortable in prison? Boy, do you think Jesus Christ was comfortable on the cross? I was like, no. And I said, coach, what do I talk about? He said, boy, that's easy. You talk about Jesus. You talk about 30 minutes. Go. And I preached my first sermon. And some kids got saved. And when I got done, he put his finger in my chest and said, boy, when you teach the Bible, I see you come alive and I see them come alive. And then a few months later. I'm just serving at my church while I'm in college, leading 10th grade boys. And we were doing a Disciple Now weekend. And the guy gives a salvation invitation and like a re-education opportunity. And then some of you may be called full-time vocational ministry. And I was overwhelmed with the presence of God. I had to go to my dad and say, Daddy, I'm not going to seminary. I mean, I'm not going to med school. I just got accepted to the Medical College of Virginia. And I said, I'm not doing that. I'm going to seminary. He's like, "What is seminary?" And I said, "Well, it's like, like school for preachers and he's like why the heck you need a school to be a preacher you only study one book and work half a day a week i was like i don't know but i feel like that's the next step bro it's funny that's like what half of our churches actually think yeah i actually think that 100 so that's what i did and then i was a youth pastor and i thought i was gonna do student ministry forever well wait let me just say real quick didn't you go to like didn't you go to like a pretty liberal seminary no i went to a very liberal seminary oh okay very very very it's like am i allowed to ask if we need to edit anything what was it and then what was it i've never heard you tell us so it's baptist theological seminary of richmond okay and a part of the problem when you don't grow up in church you don't know what's happening in church world yeah so all of the professors that did not believe the bible when they got fired from the big six southern baptist schools because they were heretics they assembled together with great animosity and started baptist theological seminary of richmond and i thought well i'm working at a baptist church there's a baptist school right here i mean i visited southwestern and southern and southeastern i thought that's where i'd go and i love those students that i was serving and i just didn't know and it's all my responsibility and nobody told me and i showed up on campus and i'm like what the heck and so we're about it's like my third week and my professor is she's talking about the resurrection as if it's a myth or a story bro and i'm like hold on a second i got a question she said what's up and i was like it sounds like you don't believe in the bodily resurrection and she goes well what so what if i don't i said well when i get to heaven you won't be there you said in a class i'm three weeks in with this professor who has a phd in johannine literature okay and i got saved at summer camp single digi years ago and had done many quiet times and so i my whole seminary experience and the lord like things were going so well in the student ministry and i also thought that that that you know these kids will never leave me i didn't realize they graduate every four years and you know that kind of thing and so i was just so in love with what i was doing um so i had to go to war every every class i had to get permission to write papers twice as long and i would literally say and i've got i can be a bit antagonistic and now i'm 53 when i was 24 or whatever it was bad and i would say this is the heresy you've been teaching because you know basically for a paper in school you just have to regurgitate what they've been telling you and then i would say and this is biblical christianity bro and i had to petition the president to graduate no because they failed me i had to petition the president to graduate everybody failed me seriously seriously and i just had to be like listen i've done the work and y'all just disagree with me theologically me and jesus but that's fine and but do and then i finally was like do you really want me back and he said congratulations you can walk so did you stay all three years yeah i'm just curious i've never actually what made you stay three years when it was like i'm surrounded by actual heretics the churches i was serving you know i got to stay with these people that's it i was just serving the local church dude what's interesting about that is like you know in uh i think it's dark night rises where they they throw they throw bruce wayne down in the pit he breaks his back yeah and then the whole process of him climbing out is how he becomes batman yeah it's like a little bit of like well that's a little bit of how joey became batman yeah i was a little bit of an apologist before i even knew what that was because i had to argue orthodox christianity against people that were exponentially more educated than me so this we didn't even plan it talking about this i'm curious what were like the other like main things that they were pumping out in that seminary was like i had to deal with that everything that you call progressive christianity oh it was that bro but this is the mid 90s so i started in 95 so nobody had ever heard like sexuality kind of up to you and it's biblical dominique crowson and uh the jesus seminars where they're voting on what jesus may have said may not have said that was like yeah they would say things like this isn't the word of god this contains words from god things like that and uh and in fact um you you were required to attend chapel and i would go and then somebody from the chapel stage gave this very very disparaging con comment on adrian rogers and people cheered and i was like i'll never be back if people if you're listening and you don't know who adrian rogers is you're not gonna be back legend legend one of the greatest preachers in the history of america right bible believer ten toes down yeah and so i'm back in the president's office but you have to come come to chapel and i said i that is a house of gossip like can we just walk through the epistles on what the bible says that we're supposed to be doing in there so funny enough i have preached at most of the southern baptist seminaries as a guest chapel speaker i've never been invited back to and if i did go i would go on a mission trip to share the gospel yeah what would you preach like off the top of your head i would preach this passage just probably straight romans three yeah just the gospel because honest to goodness they they need to get saved they need to get saved they need to surrender their life to the lordship of christ all right so i'm sorry i dovetail this so all right the good news is none of them work at church yeah they all work coffee shops and they all made fun of me because i i you know i was always like i gotta go lead a youth group yeah but it's not like i'm gonna go lead a youth group i'm gonna go lead a youth group i'm gonna it's a great way to do seminary because the whole you'll be like that that won't preach because it's not true yeah so it was helpful all right so you get out of there then you know i just want to get from there to i'm pastoring the fastest church plant in american history is 35 000 people i graduate and then then it finally dawns on me oh no nobody's gonna hire me i wouldn't hire me from this place and this incredible godly man named dr bill ross hired me and i go to work at venton baptist church just outside of roland virginia and it was just the time of my life man student ministry's growing and blowing he's showing me how to be a man um in the ministry i meet gretchen in the gym about four months after i get there within a year and a half we're married and then he dr ross says i'm going to athens to work at the church there and i want y'all to come with me and run students in college so we get there most of the people in that church are liberal and i didn't realize that and the only way i can get there is if i can get there and i can get there and i can get there the only people that really wanted like bible believing bible teaching folks was the committee that hired me and dr bill and god bless them but boy we got beat down i came this close to leaving ministry in 2003 gretchen talked me into staying in and giving it one more chance that landed us in jacksonville florida at beach church under pastor jerry sweat the best christian i've ever met my whole life did that for about 10 years we started a service that started at 11 22 a.m on so that people would know what time to come. And I'm not creative. In about, I don't know, in less than a year, our services, it turned into four or five services, and it outgrown the church we were at. And he came to me and said, I think you should plant a church, and we'll plant you. And then they let us live there for another year and a half while we got everything together, renovated and all Walmart, and we launched 11-22, September 23, 2012. 14 years ago. Dude, for people who are listening, they don't know how rare what Jerry Sweat was his name. They do not realize no one does what he did. No pastor anywhere looks at a massive service in his church and then says, hey, man, you know what you ought to do? Take all these people in my church and leave so that the kingdom can advance. Nobody does that. Yeah, and at that point, that church was a part of the United Methodist denomination, but it wasn't. It wasn't like you're a United Methodist guy that's running for office. It's not like that. Dude, we went to one of his conferences one time. I should tell you about that. Who are you talking about? What's his name? You just talked about him. James Tallarico? No, the other guy that you mentioned, Adam. Oh, Adam Hamilton. Yeah, him. His heretic running for, literal. I'm not saying that to be mean. Like an actual literal heretic running. An actual heretic. I went to the first session, and the whole session was about how his church is for thinking people because, you know, normal church people aren't smart enough to tell them how the Bible actually got put together and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You went to his. Well, Beach Church was a Methodist church, and it was a big church, and so our team was trying to. I didn't sign up. I'm not a Methodist. Yeah, you don't know. And so I just show up with the team, and I was like, I'm not going to this crap. Yeah. And I didn't. I went and like shared the gospel on the street and worked on my youth talk while everybody else was in these. Anyway, so I'm not surprised that that was like the beginnings of it, but it was terrible. So anyway, Beach was a Jesus-loving, love-loss people kind of church. Love the Bible. Love the Bible. And since then, they have left the United Methodist Church when they went just complete apostasy. Yeah. Again, for people who don't know, the United Methodist Church made an actual decision to like just actually institutionally embrace heterodoxy and become LGBT-affirming a few years ago. Not just affirming, but like in positions of leadership and pastoral positions and, I mean, just. So when he's talking about them leaving the denomination, he's not saying that it's a bad thing. He's saying that is a very, very good thing. Well, here's what happened. The denomination. That denomination. The denomination left the Bible. Yes. And Beach Church stayed with the Bible. Bingo. That's a better way to say it. We didn't move. Correct. No, you moved. We didn't move. It's a great church, man. It's still a great church. That's awesome, dude. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Pastor Jerry, we just did a church leader summit at 1122 and had almost 2,000 pastors. We told Pastor Jerry's story, and he opened the whole thing in prayer. I love that you did that. Of course. That's awesome. Yeah. Okay, let me transition, but it's real. So, like, right now, for real, I tell people this all the time. Church 1122, which, by the way, I think it's absolutely—people ask me all the time because I quote you all the time. What's the Bible verse behind 1122? It is. In Mark 1122. Oh, really? Oh, I proof texted one. It's hard to find. So you came up with it afterwards? Yeah. Yeah, we picked the time first, and then a guy started making bumper stickers and handing them out. So when we started the church, Gretchen was like, are we really going to call it 1122? I'm like, what are we going to do with all the bumper stickers? It's kind of a thing. And so there's not a lot of good 1122 verses. Proverbs 1122 says, like a gold ring and a pig snout is a woman without discretion. So that was almost our theme. That's the 1122 Women's Conference headline. Mark 1122 says, Jesus answered, have faith in God. There you go. Yeah. Good, we found something. Yeah. All right. So, man, both of us are seeing—honestly, in my wildest dreams when God called me to ministry when I was 16, I could not have imagined being a part of what we get to do right now. Totally. Honestly, like, you know, I think we baptized at 882 a couple weeks ago, and, dude, I just sat in the back, and I was like— Honestly, I cried like a little baby. I did. I was just back there. My eyes were sweating. You guys baptized—bro, you— We've baptized— That's 4,000 people this year. It's like 5,084. Dude, and if you're—like, I don't think you understand, in all of church history, there may be a small handful of churches who have seen that. So, like, let me just ask a question. We'll just get right at it. Both of us are seeing really unique moves to God at our churches. You know, honestly, man, like— I don't know about you, but I feel like we're breaking, like— I feel like I'm breaking a lot of the rules. Everybody told me what you need to do and not do to grow a church. Like, hey, man, never preach above a sixth-grade level. You know, anything that's any controversial, you know, has a little edge to it. You know, just keep that private. We'll handle that in conversations, not from the pulpit. Be a mile wide and an inch deep. And, bro, you—like, right now, you're— What week of preaching verse-by-verse through Matthew are you in? How many weeks are you going to do a Matthew total? However many weeks there's been in the year, we started the first week of January. We'll take it all the way to, like, Thanksgiving. Yeah. A couple years ago, I'll listen to every single one of them. You started the year, and you went, hey, guys, hope you like the book of Romans. Because the entire year, we're in Romans. You're going to love it. And so it's like, man, you guys, my favorite thing I say this all the time, I say this to Phil Pantheon Mitchell. There's two ways to preach. You can preach like a feather duster, or you can preach like a jackhammer. I like guys who preach like a jackhammer, where they just sort of open up the word, and the word is the sword in the word. And they just choose violence. I love me some Phil Pantheon Mitchell. Yeah. God has blessed our generation with his voice. Yes. He's a godly man. Yes. And you only get to see a glimpse of it on stage. Like, the real Phil Pantheon Mitchell's best days are in that prayer closet, just getting after it. But my kind of normal routine now, because our first service starts on Thursday nights at 522, and so I'll try to get everything buttoned up by two, run across the street to the gym, and listen to a Phil Pantheon Mitchell sermon, just to like— That'll get you a good workout. That's it. It just—I just need that little extra fire as I'm going in. And so he's been an incredible blessing. All right. Well, honestly, all three of us, it's like—you know, and this is no shade at anybody. We're just—people do it different. But honestly, it's kind of like all the stereotypes of megachurches, I kind of feel like y'all, you break all of them. We don't do any— It's like, you don't do anything. You know, it's not a mile wide and an inch deep. You know, you're preaching verse by verse through Romans for 45 weeks. So here's the question. Okay, you're breaking all the quote-unquote rules, and yet you're seeing an outpouring of the Spirit. It's like an open heaven over 1122. Why do you think some of the churches that are breaking all the rules are the ones that are seeing the most kingdom advance right now? I think some of it is just the favor of God. There are people that preach better than me. And know the Bible better than I do. And pray harder than I do. And in God's sovereign plan, He's just decided to put His favor upon us. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. We sing all the same songs. We all teach from the same Bible. I don't know. I appreciate the guys that have gone before us that fought all like the worship wars. And we can preach in jeans and, you know, not take ourselves seriously. I have a great appreciation for that. But I'm glad we've gone beyond that. I'm not in the crowd business. We're in the disciple-making business. And I think that's the difference. I think the quote-unquote seeker has changed. And I think folks are saying, Okay, if I'm going to show up and give you an hour and a half at a church, then just give me the goods, man. Yes, dude. What is He asking me to do? Just tell me what it actually says. And I don't need a bait and switch. Just tell me what it says. And I think. And then ultimately, Jesus said, If you lift Him up, He'll draw all men unto you. So I can't save anybody. And I'm not in the crowd business. I'm not just trying to get bigger attendance. I'm trying to make disciples. That is the imperative in the Great Commission. Yeah. Dude, I think there's really something to it. Like, there's a spiritual aspect and there's a human reality. Like, there is no. Like, the thing that I'll tell the church all the time is, Amen. The Spirit of God authored the Word of God. And so the preaching of the Word of God, it attracts the presence of God. And if we get the presence of God, the presence of God will attract the people. Amen. And so it's like, man, if you just. There's a. Listen, dude. I don't care who you are. There is power in that book. The other thing, man, is a lot of guys, they're like preaching for the audience of their favorite, famous Christian pastor that they're hopes listening. First of all, he ain't listening. Or they're preaching to impress their dead seminary professors. He ain't listening. Bro. He ain't listening. I'm just preaching to the man and the woman that I see sitting right there in the second row. So if. Because I'll tell you, there's been a couple times where I feel really intimidated because I'm preaching a conference with, like, John Piper. And I'm like, he is going to laugh at my illustrations and think it's silly. Because you're right. There's a lot of Larry the Cable Guy in there because it's just who I am and how I grew up and a lot of that stuff. I use all your jokes. But the reality is, is what Dr. Piper actually did the first time I met him. As I walk up to him, there's. I mean, of all the preachers, I got to have dinner with Billy Graham one time and then shake hands with Dr. Piper and share a stage with him, like, back-to-back preaching. And I walk up to him, I'm like, Dr. Piper, I know everybody's told you this a million times, but I just want to tell you again, I'm Joby Martin from 1122. And he goes, I know 1122. And I was like, hold on one second. Gretchen, come here. Can you say that last part again? Okay. Nothing but encouragement. Do you know how you. Have you ever heard about you? Probably Matt Chandler. Just because they're real tight. And then he says, will you sit with me in this service? So we're sitting together on the front row. His leg is touching my leg. And I'm like, Lord, would you pass the double from Elijah to Elijah on me, you know? I believe in impartation in this moment. Then he said, will you pray for me before I preach? I'm like, yes, sir. So anyway, but I'm not trying to preach to John Piper. I'm trying to preach to just the people that showed that God brings to 1122. People in struggling marriages and prodigal kids and people who've been a Christian a long time, but they feel stuck, whatever it is. And I think a lot of times too many preachers are like trying to go viral instead of just be faithful to the text and just preach the word. That's right, man. It's really interesting. So I'm reading a Charles Spurgeon biography right now. Let's go. And because I listen to you so much, I'm reading the stuff about his preaching. And there was a sentence I read the other day. And I was like, that's Joey. Because what the guy said, the biographer said, if you don't know who that is and you're listening, Charles Spurgeon is generally considered the greatest preacher since the New Testament era. It's called the Prince of Preachers. He was pastor in a church of 10,000. I just read the other day, he preached to 24,000 people at one time without a microphone. And this is like mid to late 1800s, no mic. And the dude was just a baller. And they said this about his preaching. When I read it, I was like, that's Joey. Is they said the thing, the two things that marked Charles Spurgeon's preaching is he had an extremely high Christ. He had a very high theological awareness and undergirding his Puritan, got all the things, all the things. But because he experienced, and I'm not saying this is why you do it. I'm just talking about what you do. Because he experienced like extreme suffering. His wife was an invalid. He had extreme, I think it was Bright's disease is what now they think it was his whole life. They said he had this thing where like his preaching will go really high doctrinally, but then really low at the compassion level where it just felt like it's a man just crawling up right next to your hospital bed. And there was a tenderness to him. And when I read that sentence, I was like, that's Joby Martin. That's that. Well, I love Jesus and I love people. And I want the people that I love to love Jesus because he first loved them. - That's right. - And so I just tell them about it. I got to do this. We didn't plan to do this, but I got to do this. Will you tell the Billy Graham story? Oh, man. I'm on a mission trip, and this guy calls me. He's a doctor at Mayo. And Dr. Graham will come to Jacksonville and go to Mayo to do all of his checkups and stuff. And he was attending 1122, and he's like, hey, I need you to pray about something. Would you and Gretchen like to have dinner with us and Dr. Billy Graham? And I'm like, bro, some things you don't pray about, okay? Bro, I literally can't even imagine. I have prayed for this. So I'm like, of course. So we show up, and this is not like you're invited to a dinner with, and there's a hall of people and the guy's up on stage. No, no, no. It was the homeowner, his wife, their daughter, Dr. Graham at the head of the table, me, Gretchen, and then Dr. Graham traveled with like a travel companion and a nurse. That's it, at the family dining room table. So I read. Two of his biographies in the couple of weeks going into it just so I'd be all fresh. And I walk in the door, and there's Billy Graham. And he had met, in one of his biographies, he met like Joe DiMaggio or some famous player, and he was like, oh, it's the greatest day of my life. And so when I met him, I was like, Dr. Graham, I was reading about how when you got to meet, I think it was Joe DiMaggio, this is that moment for me. And he says, oh, pastor, tell me about your church. And I was like. Babe, did you hear that? He called me pastor. She's like, it's because he probably don't know your name. I'm like, woman. So we had just baptized, I think it was 126 people the weekend before in the ocean. And I was like, well, we just baptized 126 people. He like, he looked shocked. He backs up and he goes, I've never heard of such a thing. And I was like, you know, I think you have. I read that you had. 75,000 people in Seoul, Korea get saved three years ago, but okay, you know what I mean? But here's the thing, dude. He never compared my ministry to his ministry. He just celebrated what we were doing. So we sit down at dinner. We were together maybe like four and a half hours. And we sit down at dinner and we're just kind of chatting. And then he looks over at Gretchen. He goes, Miss Martin, I understand that you're a worship leader at the church. And he was like, she said, yes, sir. And he said, will you sing me a song? And Gretchen looks at me and I was like, if Billy says sing, woman, you better sing. So she gets up. He couldn't hear very well, see very well at this point. And she comes over and kneels down and she just starts singing the song. And he closes his eyes and he just lifts his hand at the table. No show. He's just, okay. And then she looks at me. And you know how when it's just slamming at the end of the service and the altars are flooded. And you're like, I know we scheduled one song, but, and she looked at me and I did the just like, let's keep it going. The buses will wait. And so eventually she gets done. He looks right in her eyes and he goes, I believe that's the most beautiful song I've ever heard. Now listen, my wife can sing, but he's heard some songs, man. But again, there was no comparison. I asked him, asked him to pray for our ministry. He grabbed my hand and Gretchen's hand. And never mentioned the ministry. He said, God, I pray for this man. I pray you'll protect him from himself. I pray for his marriage. I pray that he would love his wife and he would make disciples and you will build your church. And when he's, we were driving home and Gretchen was like, something's different in my life. And she had been leading worship and kind of reluctantly. She had all the talent, but she didn't want to, you know, she didn't want to be in the church. She didn't want to be in the church. She didn't want to be on stage. Everybody look at her. That was gone and broken. And then right before dinner was over, I said, Dr. Graham, if you could preach one more crusade, what would it be? And I mean, before I got the sentence out, he said that would be Galatians 6.14. Now at that point in my life, I had yet to memorize Galatians 6.14. I didn't even know what it said. So I was just moving. Like I was like, Galatians 6.14. That is so good. And I pull my phone out and go to my YouVersion Bible app because he can't see. Shout out, Craig. And I go to Galatians 6.14, which says, Far be it from me to boast in anything except the cross of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the man that's got the right to brag about everything. Yeah, man. Bro, what's. That was our time together. That's a story. No doubt. It was so interesting about that. It's like, so two guys that have influenced, both of us significantly. It's funny, you and me have a similar story with the John Piper sermon from Passion One Day. By the way, my XP, Tim Smith, shout out. He helped. Did you know he helped quarterback that Passion One Day? No way. Bro, he's the one that did like a bunch of the. He set up that, all that stuff. So he was there and everything. I have the. Not the one that Dr. Piper was holding, but I have the Reader's Digest that he reads from. You showed it to me when I preached it last week. Yeah, somebody heard me preach about it and they had it at their. Like grandma had it at their house. They brought it to me. Dude. Sitting on my desk. I think we have a. We don't even. I mean, we're going to move on and talk about what we're going to talk about, but I think we got a similar thing. Shout out. His name was Lewis Curd at Union University. He handed me a burned CD of that dadgum sermon and I bet I listened to that thing no joke 200 times. I literally could have quoted that sermon, I think, word for word. When Jan and I started dating, we go on a blind date. I think it was like our third date. I was like, hey, instead of music, let's listen to this. And in my mind, it was kind of like, if she's out on this, I'm probably out on her. It was like, I don't think I'd be doing what I'm doing if it wasn't for God pouring out His Spirit on me. I was leading a college ministry at UGA and we had a Bible study that night and this kid comes in and he had a bootleg DVD of the event and he was like, can we watch this? I was like, okay. And I remember, man, like all the cool people were there. It's like David Crowder, Louie. I mean, all the coolest Christians ever. And then out comes this man who looks like he works at Blockbuster. Ill-fitting dockers. Yeah. We watch it beginning to end. It's only like 42 minutes. And then everybody's undone. And the whole point out of it is just don't waste your life. That's the whole point. Don't chase after the things of this world. Just chase after Jesus. Find your joy in Him by being on mission for Him. It finishes. Everybody looks at me because I'm like the college pastor and I just said, play it again. And we just, we watched it three times. Jeez. What's interesting is the boast only in the cross. So you got that from Graham. That's like Piper's thing. Yeah. I think he mentions it in that sermon. It's either that or the other one. But it's very interesting. Galatians 6, 14. There may be something too. Hey, real quick. Can somebody look up like what people, if people want to search that sermon on YouTube, can somebody tell me what to search? Because people are going to, you will want to pause this podcast and go listen to that. Just tell me whenever you find it. But it wrecked my life. It completely. It's still wrecking my life. I mean, I still, well, nevermind. We'll move on. Okay. Am I getting it? Boasting only in the cross. John Piper's Passion One Day 2000. Passion One Day 2000. Worth your time. Correct. Worth your time. Okay. Let's fast forward and talk about this stuff. Okay. So I want to see. I want to see what you think about this. So almost every pastor I know, I think probably both of us, but almost every pastor I know, they're experiencing two things simultaneously at the same time. More salvation, more outpouring of God's spirit, more baptism, and more opposition, more honestly, just sort of like viciousness, and then more sort of attack. And I feel like both those are happening at the same time. I'm honestly just curious. You got any thoughts why you think that is? On the last live, you talked about the 50-year cycles of revival and communication breakthroughs that accompanied those things. I triple stamp that. No take backs, man. I'm into it. I also think in the, I remember COVID, all the race riots, everything's burning down, all of that that was going on in 2020, and we're all freaking out. I happened to be with Larry Osborne, and he's like, guys, this isn't new. Y'all don't remember the late 60s? And we were like, well, we weren't born yet, so say more. Very, very similar. And out of that comes the Jesus revolution. That's right. Dude, it's interesting. About five years ago, six years ago, I did a series for a long time at our church called Gospel Awakenings, where we just studied the ingredients of revival, and we began to pray for 1122. Why not us? Why not here? Why not now? Interesting. Yeah. Did you do just, like, revival texts in the scriptures? What'd you do? Like, you go, like, Nehemiah. This is from memory. It was more like some of the things that, some of the ingredients, according to really smart people, was a pursuit of holiness. Yeah. There was a repent, like, serious, serious repentance. People getting serious about evangelism. Not as a strategy, but, like, the people they loved. And then there's the unexplainable spirit of God shows up. And so we, We did a week on each of those and we were praying for a revival and we are in it and so are you and then you're right and then the i mean you know i reached out to you a couple weeks ago um by the way thanks again for that you and philip talking it ministered to my soul at just the right time in just the right way and so i appreciate it but yeah man people have become more and more vicious and one of the things you reminded me of is that that's not new man it's just you know same demons different days that paul would go into a city right uh revival would break out and a riot would follow and the internet has just made normal people really mean bro yes i mean i heard pacluta said this at our place last week but when i was growing up if somebody said something about you you'd say say it in my face yeah yes and there were some consequences and There's involved there you know yeah if you can't say it to somebody's face or you wouldn't say it that way to somebody's face then you probably shouldn't type it bro it's been interesting text it tweet it any of that something yeah yeah i think that like there's a little there's a little schema that like uh i just i did uh i think i did 40 44 weeks in acts and bro here's a little exercise for like if you're a listener or you're a pastor like here's a little exercise for you so like all right so uh obviously uh this like uh i've heard somebody said whatever god creates satan counterfeits so yeah god does the holy spirit satan counterfeits with unholy spirits about what calls demons so where they wherever there is an action of the holy spirit there's always going to be an opposite reaction of unholy spirits bible calls demons bro if you i did it when i was studying for acts if you go through the book of acts and you take two highlighters and every single time there's a revival or outpouring of god's spirit you do one color and then every time there's a riot or a christian gets murdered you do another color literally the entire outline of the book of acts is revival riot revival riot revival riot and bro i don't know if you feel this way i don't think we talk about this i literally will tell my team now like we i knew i was like we're gonna baptize minimum 700 people this week i will literally start telling my team the next week i have no idea what it is yeah the next week you are going to see some massive opposition be ready and i'm going to tell you what it is i'm going to i have never been wrong not because i'm right because the bible told me so well you got any thoughts on that well you see it in the scriptures all the time last so we do this thing called saturated in the fall bro it's let me just say okay i'm in my workout room i listen every year it's amazing it's incredible robbie gallaty jenny allen jp pacluta uh jason shepherd and then me on sunday we baptized 900 plus people the following weekend i started with wasn't it awesome get ready here comes the enemy and i said to quote my friend josh howerton the birthmark of the believer is the bull's eye which i got that from somebody else and so i mean look at look in the bible man uh jesus gets baptized that's a high holy moment he has not been connected to the father the way he has eternally because he is incarnate in here and he comes out of the water the heavens open up and god the father says behold my son and whom i am well pleased you think you feel good when your dad and i had a boy how about when the heavenly father speaks awesome high moment the next verse he's in the desert for 40 days going nose to nose with satan himself you look at like the mountain of transfiguration that's a high holy moment i mean elijah and moses and jesus is displaying his glory whatever that means i mean it's awesome then they go walking down the mountain and what's happening jesus gets to the points where he says to the disciples how long am i going to be with you because they get into a denominational argument about something meanwhile there's a dad there with a sick kid they're not doing anything about it that's a valley you see it in paul's life you see it like at at the lord's supper man here are the disciples this high holy moment he's washing their feet he's connecting all the dots for him and then just a little while later he's in the place of crushing getting crushed yeah this is the the biblical paradigm is mountain valley mountain valley dude i don't know about you but it was really uh it was about two years ago when we and dude i'm not i'm i refused i'm not a victim i absolutely refuse correct to think of myself that way i'm not saying i'm not a victim but we it was like our first like actionable death threat and then you had the charlie kirk thing the next year and that kind of stuff didn't that make you feel a certain way when you got up on stage the next time honestly honestly it did it honestly it did it was the first night saturated last year when he got killed that day and willie robertson was killed that day and he was taking it all for us and me and willie walked up there like it that honestly it did something weirdly good in me i really do thank god for what it produced in me because it was the first time in my life i i really had to stop and go if i get and i'm lord willing this never happens to anyone uh but it was the first time i thought i could walk out and get shot in the neck yeah if i gotta go you know am i am i prepared for it and it was really good because there was a day where i was like yep i would definitely give my life to do this and it was really good for me yeah no doubt amen really good all right so here's the and we'll depend on how this spot goes if either of us feel uncomfortable this will edit out later so here's the reality that goes with the opposition and the all the stuff you would be amazed at how comfortable with uncomfortability i am all right good this is gonna be great yeah no problem this is gonna be great so dude i'll be honest okay one of the things i'm trying to learn at our scale and then with the internet becoming what it's becoming is honestly dude people can lie about you faster than you can respond yeah i was i just read on the internet i'm supposed to mark and avoid you we're not supposed to be friends i think i'm a false teacher for like 11 different things well one of the good things to do when you get on the false teacher list to see who else is on the list and ask do i want to be are these my guys the first time i ever made the false teacher list matt chandler and matt carter were on there with it and i call i was like and i named i only did was name the name she's like that's awesome what is it i was like oh false teachers so that's what a false teacher is sign me up all right it's like i'm just gonna i'll just give some examples yeah and don't talk yet because i'll give the examples and then i'll and then i'll do my little thing here so actually i'll do me first and then i'm gonna do fun ones with you so like for instance like dude i'll give so here's an example like i'm gonna ask you how do you how do you think about this as a pastor and then you know for people who are listening it's like they're church members and by the way i think what both of us figured out is 99.9 percent of our church they don't care they got they got lives and jobs we're actually they have real problems you know but it is so like um well i don't even know how to do it quick there's like this stuff that'll float out there like uh oh josh you know josh lied about his house being a gift like that all and it's like i've never said that what is 100 here's the house that we're currently in without the help of some generous christians and church members right and so that's what i'll say then some of the internet it'll do the telephone game and be like oh josh's house was a gift and then 30 people on youtube would be like josh howerton lied that his house was a gift because we dug up the the yeah the mortgage documents do that kind of thing and there's stuff like that uh the uh there was a a deal where somebody saw three different numbers that i did this kind of stuff we deal with on the feeding thing yeah on the yeah so they they dug up three different numbers and they dug up three different numbers and they dug up three different that josh lied he's uh he said that the food pantry did a million meals a year and then he said half a million and this web page only says 250 000 and it goes viral like that stuff goes viral and i'm like well actually in 2020 2021 the food pantry to 1.2 million meals that's the number of the guy named john level that's where it came out of the podcast you know john yeah bro john's awesome legit bro john is the best no doubt so that's the number john using his podcast and then we have one food pantry at our broadcast campus that that food pantry alone does 300 000 meals and then what we also do is we help facilitate and run three other food pantries and collectively the number between all three of those 750 000 so what somebody it's like this is what we deal with what somebody can do is they can take that stuff they can make it look like you lied when actually it's all totally true so what i'm dealing with is people can lie faster than a passenger response so joey i've heard your net worth in the food pantry and i've heard your net worth in the food pantry is at least 35 million dollars that's what the internet has reliably told me reliably told me my favorite part about that one is is when it came out somebody sent that to my wife and she texted the team that i work with and it just said can somebody tell pastor joey to share some of that money my wife that's hilarious that's funny she's funny and then man i heard you were using inhumane brainwashing techniques mm-hmm and so and bro so here's the deal that i'm driving at that most people probably don't realize that we have to figure out how to navigate yeah people can lie about you faster you respond so here's the thing so even if if you take time to explain so my net worth is not even close i wish it was 24 i hope it is one day lord bless them um i so there's this one website that lists the top 10 richest pastors in the world and it's got me on there wow yeah with my net worth at 24 million it says i was born in 1984. thank you that's only 11 years off it says i was a graduate of southern seminary i was i didn't go there it's got a picture of me and and gretchen actually at tim tebow's wedding and under it says here's pastor rick warren and his wife okay no way that's what it says i'll show you the website what and because somebody posted that one can i show it on the podcast 100 please please please somebody will you guys send me the link so i can show it that's hilarious yeah and uh so not a reliable source but somebody put it on the internet and now other people just go and grab it and blab it now here's what i think happened is that when we moved into our broadcast location we started leasing it and then a few years later we had a guaranteed purchase price on the whole whole thing by a godly man that i love so much named tony slayman he is he helps us plant churches and so we bought it the purchase price was 24 million dollars and i bet if you go into like jacks.gov government things legally organizationally i'm listed as the president and they just associate me with that purchase price now here's the thing those people don't know how math works but even if i explain it yep here's what happens to the people spewing it they're like okay well and then they just move to the next one next one the next one it's like trying to grab water i've never heard the person come back and go oh my bad i had the wrong information yeah no i didn't have it the uh inhumane brainwashing technique i'm reliably informed joey this girl and her girlfriend come walking down the aisle at 11 22 a bunch of years ago and they were like we love this church it's a movement for all people to discover and deepen the relationship with jesus will you do our wedding and i go how about we do dinner i didn't just say no so how about we do dinner that's wise i just sit down with the bible and the first thing i said chantelle is the girl's name and i was like first thing i need you to know is i love you god loves you i want you here he wants you here the second thing i want you to hear is we live in a world that's going to lie to you and tell you that me and you can't be friends so don't believe that lie i love you and the world's going to say that i hate you so you can either believe them or me but i love you and we just walk through what the scriptures say about marriage about sex and about sexuality and so long story short chantelle surrenders her life to christ breaks up with her girlfriend they have to sell the house and figure out what to do with the dog come on man now listen theologically it costs us all the same to follow jesus it costs her more that's right so when she was sharing her testimony she just shares that she's like yeah pastor joey said you can't do that and uh and then we sent her as a missionary to uganda for a bunch of years and so this is a girl kidding me no i'm not kidding and so testimony right now today what the enemy has done is they've sent her to uganda and they've sent her to the is they call that convert like conversion therapy there we call that discipling so i'm just do whatever you want to do yeah i'm just telling you what the book says if you don't want to do it and particularly somebody that's coming to me saying i want to align my life with the scriptures i don't want to feel my feelings and attractions to be the lord of my life i want jesus to be the lord of my life pastor can you help me i can help you and what i'm going to help you with is the bible and so what was the accusation and that's the reality so dude but here's the problem it's like here's what i'm for for for me for people who listen all this stuff like the deal the problem is the internet can lie faster than you can respond totally so then it's like what do you do i'm like what do you think well what do you think um jesus makes it pretty clear that the motive of the question asker matters a lot in the book of matthew the scribes and the pharisees get together and they come up with a way they devise a plan to trick jesus is what it says and so they say all right we've got this situation about marriage and the guy dies and she marries another one no no no all right who's this she in the in the kingdom you know and jesus is like let me ask you a question john the baptist is he from god or not and they're like don't hold on one second they huddle up and they're like man you can't jesus juked jesus he got us so they come back and they're like we don't know he goes then i'm not answering your question so because because what's actually if somebody actually wanted to know the truth before they posted on the internet they could just reach out and say hey i got some questions and by the way any covenant member of 1122 that has any questions about anything can meet with a staff person or an elder anytime yeah and we are yeah we've got to gladly just say here man what do you want to know what do you need to know whatever because what's actually happening is people just want you to fight them online because they're trying to gain popularity because they typically they're either selling data that they're selling some kind of offshoot product that they want more attention towards bro let me just interject here this is like it's whole i i it's my pet peeve and it makes me laugh so like half of those articles are like look at this mega church that's all about the money please click this link to my monetized website so uh paul talks about it in titus 310 as for a person who stirs up division after warning him once and then twice have nothing more to do with him knowing that such a person is warped and sinful be and be self-condemned or i look at nehemiah nehemiah had a call of god on his life i have a call of god on my life which is to lead a movement for all people and i look at nehemiah nehemiah had a call of god on his life i have a call of god on my life which is to lead a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with jesus christ and sam ballot's trying to disrupt this call and he's calling these meetings and calling these meetings and he's got ill motives and nehemiah says i'm doing a great work i cannot come down like what do you want me to not do in order to be a keyboard warrior to just get in the comments and start fighting with people yeah so yeah you know and again it would be different if somebody reached out and said man i got some questions and the intent was clarity and clarification that's right no problem that's right because what's happened in my own life is i heard something and then i talked to somebody and i go oh i didn't know that that makes a lot of sense but if you are if you are just assuming the worst and trying to play gotcha you'll always have some some angle that you can go after bro and there's like i'll tell you like here's i don't know what you think about this like here's what i learned is like you think i got this from larry legend larry i was born you think by responding you think you're putting water on a fire yeah and it's putting water on a grease fire so like this has happened to me before so here's like what i don't think because what i think happens is people in churches they're like why won't you respond yeah you we demand to respond first of all i don't have to show up to every fight i'm invited to you don't you don't get to put things on my to-do list just because you're mad on the internet this is not how it works but the other thing is bro here's what happened to me when i was a kid trying to figure it out the first time this ever happened to me i was like you know what i should respond and then what i learned is before i responded like one percent of my church had been exposed to a lie correct and then i responded and a hundred percent of my church went looking for the lie this is a great line um somebody was sending me mean emails to me about my preaching about whatever i'm not doing right and pastor brick grabbed it my executive pastor who i love to death he's a good man and he sent back and it said something like of all the things i've done in my life i've done a lot of good things and i've done all the responsibilities that god has trusted you with the teaching ministry of 11 22 is not one of them now we're not talking about like heresy and heterodoxy you're just talking about preferences that kind of thing yeah yeah and uh and the and the the heretics you have pointed out if nobody was listening to them then there'd be noticing to point it out okay and so we have a local church we have a board of lay elders and they're actually all old men that i am submitted to same so in regards to whatever whatever the purchase of the retreat center um whatever it is in my life i have authority in my life that i am submitted to yeah yeah yep yeah well it's just i actually any negative things that i get i just immediately forward it to the chairman of the board of elders yeah that's right here you go that's brilliant you have all the information yeah so i'm not hiding anything i'm not if you see truth in this you let me know yeah yeah my favorite is my last one i got this guy's like you're an empty suit i don't even wear suits except on easter on easter except on easter all right let me transition like a hard emotional gear shift so like i think both of us you know interesting thing is uh 11 22 reached a lot of dudes you know it's like both of us kind of grew up in an era where the church actually a lot of times skewed 70 30 female male and uh you know it's like 11 22 reaches and disciples a lot a lot of dudes saying same with laypoint same with live free so here's i'm gonna so i'm gonna show you they're gonna see it on the screen okay so like dude here's here's what i get this question a lot okay so like this right here i had that gum it this right here is a graph that people i'm gonna point it out right here so like what it's showing is that in the last 10 years or so you have this actually 20 years you have this weird thing going on where like men in general are skewing conservative and then women in general obviously you know not all of them are skewing radically progressive so you're getting this increasing gender divide thing here now i'm talking to a pastor trying to pastor not just men I'm trying to pastor everybody that walks in my door. So you got that. So that's number one. So first of all, actually, do you have any thoughts on why that's happening? If you don't, we'll just move on to the actual question I was going to ask. You know, in regards to the women going liberal, I think that it's a bit of what you talked about, Satan can't create, but he will corrupt, commandeer, you know. And so oftentimes, he'll take a good thing that God put in there with this, like, deep need to care for people. Yes. And then he'll begin to twist it to an unbiblical kind of messianic complex. Yeah. And that happens. I also think it's a reaction to the lack of good, godly male leadership. Jenny Allen was on Deepin, and she was—Kyle Thompson was on there with me, and he asked her a question, and she said, I'm not making an excuse, but for one of the things is that in the church, men have not treated women like co-equals and partners for a long time. And a bit of it, maybe in an unholy way, they've kind of, like, fought for their own. And so now you've got this overreaction. And again, she wasn't blaming anybody, but every man should take responsibility because where men lead and love well, everybody flourishes. That's right, man. That's right. And so before I, like, you know, go after the women, then all of us got to be able to hold up the mirror to our— That's right. —our own. —our own self. That's right. And say, what kind of environment have I created? Because God doesn't allow Adam to have a wife until he gets his house in order. He names all the animals, and then he gets a wife. Bro. And so the responsibility of the house being in order is us. Okay, so here's the question. Like, this is a very common, live-free YouTube comment. Okay. You got a young, single guy. Yeah. Who's like, hey, man, especially if they're in, like, a college town. Mm-hmm. So a college town, probably a little more progressive on campus, probably a lot less Christian on campus. They're watching that—this little thing happen. I'll keep—bro, I'll give you one more. This will blow your mind, dude. So this was CNN. I'm going to put it up here for them, but this is us. So this was CNN, and they did this deal where it was Gen Z men and women, and they ranked the things that people counted as success in life, what they were most passionate about. And so, bro, it's like young, conservative men, the most important thing in life, they ranked it number one. Now, this is CNN. It's not like Newsmax. It's like CNN. Young, conservative men, most important thing in life for them. I want to have kids and a family. And then, dude, it grabbed young, progressive women, single, progressive women, and they ranked it having children literally last, literally last, number 12 out of 12 of most important things in their whole life. So here's the question that, like, I get a lot on, like, podcast comments, is, hey, man, I'm a young, single guy. I believe the Bible. The Bible loved Jesus. I really want to have a family and a good wife. We talked about this earlier. But he's like, where do I find one? 1122. Boom. We're done here. They're there. That's where they all are. For real. Tease it out. Like, click on it. You're a young, single guy. You don't live in Jacksonville. You live in Jacksonville. That's the answer. You live in Dallas. But even in Jacksonville, dude, at our church, here's the thing. I see all the statistics and the diagrams. But when I look at the actual humans, it's like a dozen to one godly women looking for a godly man in our church. Same. Same. I've got some dear friends of mine. One of them's sitting right there. And we have this conversation at our house. How in the world is there not a line out the door of godly men chasing this girl down, bro? She's the best. Yes. The literal best. Like, I don't understand. So, I think these things have killed us. Yeah. Because the follow-up question ought to be, because your desire is to have a family and have kids. Question two. So, what are you doing? Brother, shoot your shot, man. Just ask somebody on a date, like a real date. Tell them how to do it. You go up to them and you say, hi, my name is, and you hold up your Bible. I believe this. You hold up your wallet. I'm working on this. Can I take you to dinner at, and I will pick you up at, name and time and both of those things. Then you take a shower. You put some nicer clothes on, like nothing with a team logo. Something with a bus. Something with a button, maybe a sleeve, and you drive in your car, and you pick her up, and you open the door, and you go to a place, and you tell her, get whatever you want, and then you pay for it, and if you enjoyed that, then you ask her again, and if she enjoyed it, she'll say yes, and if you ask her and she says no, suck it up, buttercup. That's right. Just shoot your shot, man. That's right. Yep. Just swing for the fences and go for it. So, if you're listening. If you're listening, it's like, I just want to give, let's rapid fire some practical tips, all right? So, like, number one, it's the same at Lake Point. I'll see stats like that, and I'm like, well, maybe it's like that out there. Ain't like that in here. Correct. In my lobby, I'm praying for young, single, Bible-believing women. All the time. To find good dudes. Now, it's honestly, I am starting to see it get fixed at Lake Point, because we're reaching tons of young guys. Yeah, we. So, it's starting to do this. We did a whole, I mean, we spent our whole year, last year, calling men to stand firm and act like men. Yep. And a part of it. A part of it was quit playing the role of the boy and be the man. And stand up and act like a man by getting on your knee. And inviting her to join you in this great adventure. And there's a bunch of people that got engaged. Yeah. So, way to go, boys. Amen. Bro, okay. So, here's my, I'm going to give, I'm going to give five. Okay. And then if you, while I'm talking, you can be thinking if you got anything else. All right. So, working a young, Bible-believing guy, find a good wife. Number one, you attract what you become. It's the thing we say all the time. Become the type of person you're looking for is looking for. Yeah. Like, hey, man. If you get a vision for the type of young woman you want to attract, then the next question you need to ask yourself is, would that girl like me? And if you're all weed, porn, and jobless, she ain't going to like you. So, it's like, hey, man, you got to become the type of person that she's going to be into. Any further comments or I get it? I get it. The bar of what it means to be the elite alpha male now is so low. So low. That if you could just get out of bed before 10, not wear pajamas. In public. Yeah. And have some, and love Jesus, and have some kind of direction in your life. Bro, you were like a blue chip, five star. If you got a job, it's even better. Oh, my gosh. Even better. Yeah, yeah. So. All right. So, that's number one. Number two, I'm not joking, dude. I don't think a lot of you guys that are listening, like, believe us. Our churches are, there are hundreds, if, probably, actually, thousands of young, single, Bible-believing women who will make. Unbelievable wives. Amen. It's like, it's like, I like to fish. Yeah, I know you like to fish, too. It's like, hey, man. It's like, you got to fish in the right pond. If I go to a, you know, if I go to a, you know, a salmon stream, I'm not going to catch a bass. Correct. So, find the right pond. Guess what's the right pond? A Bible-believing church who actually preaches the Bible. Correct. And don't you be showing up at my church just trying to, like, like it's a dating site. You come and submit, and you serve, and while you're pursuing Jesus, you get your eyes fixed on Him, running the race that He has marked out for you. And every once in a while, you look left, and you look right, and you see if somebody else is running, not just your same race, but at the same pace, and you ask her on a date. Bingo. That's it, man. Bingo. All right. I mean, the Bible says he who finds a wife finds what is good. Finds. Not waits for one to be delivered from heaven. Chandler used to say that. He's like, you don't just wait for God to bring you lunch. You go get it. And so, we just need boys. We used to just put a little steel in their spine and just shoot your shot. Go find them. Yeah. All right. Once you get to the Bible, he already hit the, he got to the third one first. Once you get to the Bible preaching church, you have to actually be present where the young women are. And what I'm saying is coming in 15 minutes late to the service and leaving five minutes before it's over is not enough. Like, you need to actually become a disciple that's actually part of the church. You need to serve. You need to be in a life group. This is, I'll give a, this is a pro tip. At Lake Point, I'm like, if you wanted to serve somewhere where young godly women are, you want to be in students, kids, young adults, or a greeter. Amen. Anything else? That's a good call. That's it. So, but you got to, you got to serve. Like, you can't just show up and be like, no, I didn't find anyone. Well, you didn't, you didn't do anything. You didn't do anything. Yeah. And make, make, make sure you're worth finding. Yep. Number four for me. This is, this is how I got married. Blind date. Amen. I'll say this, dude. The number of young guys at Lake Point. They, we do the rooted thing. Yeah. Discipleship. By the way, if you've never done rooted, you're crazy. You totally, everyone needs to do it at least once in their life. Rooted at Lake Point. We don't, we're like you. We don't stick a bunch of 25 year olds in the same room and be like, disciple each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We try to find somebody whose age starts with a five, six, or a seven to lead those disciple groups, discipleship groups for the, the 20s and the 30s. So, dude, here's what I tell people. This is how me and Jana got married. If you're single, being led in a group by a godly couple. This married literally just tell them and literally tell them if you come across a godly woman, you think would be good for me. Would you please, please put a bug in. That's how me and Jana got married. Anything else? That's a great idea. All right. Yeah. I have about to be 17 year old daughter. The idea of arranged marriages makes a lot more sense to me today. Huge fan. Big fan. And then last one, I will say this because I've decided there's two guys I've discipled from a distance that after a long time, I finally was like, Hey man, you need to pray. And that's holy. this is what you should do. And if he do whatever he says, tells you and if he tells you something different than me ignore me and listen to him if you're in like a super like an area where honestly geographically socially culturally like honestly it really is it's legitimately going to be hard to find even one you are not wrong to consider moving to an area where you can like pastor joey said find a good wife that is not wrong for you to consider agree disagree additional comments you're not going to hurt my feelings if gretchen martin currently lived in chernobyl i would quit my job sell everything and if i had to live in a tent with that girl i would do whatever it took that's right so it'll be worth it it'll be worth it amen and be a man worth following listen pastor brit and i talked about this on deepened greg reagan is 17 so when it gets to the point where some young man is truly courting her for marriage i'm going to look at two things three things in his life i'm gonna look at his phone i'm gonna look at his calendar and i'll look at his checking account because if he's a pervert it'll be on his phone and my girl ain't marrying a pervert and if he cannot manage his own life through his calendar as a single man there's no way he can lead home no way and if he doesn't bring his first and best to the lord he's a thief my daughter ain't marrying a thief bro that's fire so be the kind of man that because one of the questions i'll ask these guys so like hold on one second if you were god would you let you date one of his daughters right now i mean you live at your home there bro i mean i get it you're you're you know you're killing whatever video game you're playing that's great but and i know you're waiting for that next youtube you know trick shot to go viral good luck with that but if you're not on the journey to be able to provide and protect and be prophet priest and servant king then you haven't done your part right and if you'll do those things they will make it the girls will become easy to find that's right bro and what so it's like a lot of times people are doing bible verses and they don't know they're doing bible verses like literally what pastor jobe just said is literally a bible verse that's if you notice in genesis what you have is god puts adam in the garden to work it in and keep it and then genesis i think is it 224 a man shall leave his father i think it's 224 a man shall leave his father and mother and hold faster his wife the two shall become one and then they shall become one flesh so bro here's literally the biblical pattern yep the first thing adam gets is a job and then he leaves so now he moved out of mom and dad's house and we was self-supporting leave then he cleaves that's the kjv so then he got married and then the two become one flesh that's that's the that's the uh that's the the lay with each other part yeah so that's the order and here's and speaking of order it says leave cleave and they were they were naked and unashamed right but what happens in our culture is people get naked then they get married and they wonder why they bring all this shame into their marriage you carried some you carried some demons up into your bedroom and so listen if that's you because at like point in 11 22 happens a lot right couples they're dating in college or whatever and they're sleeping together and then they end up at our church married and come to know jesus and they're wondering why they're not married and they're wondering why they're married and they're wondering why they're not married and they're wondering why their sex life was amazing when they were dating and now it's stale because you you carry some demons up into your marriage so husbands this is your responsibility you take your wife by the hand you go get on your knees first of all you repent because the bible says love is patient and you say i am so sorry i didn't love you because i was impatient i took something that wasn't mine will you forgive me and then you go before the lord and the good news is is that he is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness and you need to cast that out of your life and you need to cast that out of your marriage because there is freedom and wholeness and joy that god wants you to experience in that area of your life right man yeah it's a big deal dude uh so this is not in my notes but i just want to ask you so like you see the same thing 11 22 like who we're really reaching right now is like that guy that's like 24 to 30 you know to actually up to my age 40 ish and it's that guy that's like a man you know he's excited when hunting season starts and he likes nascar and football and you know and he likes it when i use a bass fishing illustration and he was kind of that guy that until he got to lake point you know he called himself a christian because when he took the census in high school he's like well i'm not an atheist i'm not a muslim i guess i'm a christian yeah and then he comes to lake point and he actually meets jesus like i just i love watching it dude is he just wrecks their lives but then somewhere along the way he's like i'm not a he got married he did it wrong so he gets into so here's a i'm gonna throw a question at you i get a lot of like point he he did it wrong so he gets into his marriage he led badly going into the marriage so honestly because he led badly she didn't respond goodly and that's not her fault that was his fault for leading badly yeah so then he's like man now i'm trying to lead my family but dude i set it all up wrong like why honestly i'm trying to leave why would she trust me how do i even do so like what would you say to him like i'm not a muslim i'm not a christian i'm not a this like man i want to lead my family and be the godly leader of my family that's good but i was such a jacked up guy on the way in she very understandably is like i don't know about you having the steering wheel so i think i know what you mean when you use the word lead but i think when your average guy's been going to church for a few years hears us say lead he's not thinking what we mean when we say lead this is good this is good right here because ephesians 5 right right is why i submit to your own husbands and again there's a lot there i know the word submit it's not popular but neither is staying married so you know i'm gonna try it and and you know women don't submit to men very important you're right well i submit to your own husband as unto the lord that verse comes right after the verse says submit to one another out of reference for christ then it gets to the men and it doesn't say so husbands lead your wives it says love your wives as christ loved the church so when josh says lead what he means is like john 13 every single day you get up dress yourself as a servant and wash your disciples feet that's if that's what you mean by lead it's not like i'm the boss and i'm the man you know um a great way to you know first corinthians 13 i mean 16 13 to 14 the passage don't act like men we love it the men love it watch out stand firm that means fight act like men be strong but you better keep reading that's right bro verse 14 says let everything you do be done in love so if you want to know what that means go to first corinthians 13 and what's good about this is paul didn't tell a story he's not like love is like a butterfly and no it just love is then it's going to say a word love is patient love is kind love is not arrogant love is not rude love is not self-seeking love keeps no record of wrong this is what we're supposed to do then in that context this hit me when i was writing the book i never noticed this before in that context paul says when i was a child i actually read a book called love is kind like a child but when i became a man i put childish ways behind me so you're impatient rude self-seeking beating your chest demanding your own way childish you think you're being tough paul says you're being a toddler that'll preach so serve your wife love your wife the places that you need to start leading be the lead repenter be the lead apologizer that's it just own it all sorry you're right and then just serve her and love her and then quite honestly what ought to happen is this is true of either spouse the more you know and love jesus the more your spouse should benefit and now you're not into a theological argument she's just like yeah whatever that thing has happened to you at church and that group you go to my whole life is better keep doing that maybe i'll come with you that's right that's first peter three yeah no doubt that first peter three yeah dude i'll add uh uh so first of all i i think what a lot of guys don't understand if you're in that situation what you either purposefully or inadvertently did is honestly you shattered your wife's trust that's what you accidentally so that's what you're up against you're not up against you not necessarily some of you are but you're not necessarily up against she won't submit what you're up against is you broke her trust and man what i always tell guys is uh man if you if you break your wife's trust in marriage she's got a job and you got a job her job is to tell you what targets you need to hit to regain the trust and your job is to hit the targets that's good so you need to at some point you need to in humility do exactly what joey just said you go and with probably some sweat in your eyes you realize what you did and you apologize and then you say i'm so sorry you ask her if there's any area in which man have i lost your trust you ask her and then what you do is you ask her the question tell me exactly what i need to do to regain your trust you listen to the words yeah they come out of the mouth and you remember exactly what she said and then your job is to hit those targets so i'll just like you know this is a little you get what you pay for and this is free so lower your expectations but at that point he's got a job and she's got a job your job is to hit those targets and then you ask her what you need to hit her targets her job is to let you hit the targets and slowly give you back the trust that you lost but you gotta do your job and you can't micromanage her job and to the ladies that are listening um we're not nearly as complex as you think we are men are like puppies they repeat what is rewarded so when he gets it right if you can respond hercules i'm just telling you he'll be like okay that was good that's how you taught your puppy to not pee on your carpet you gave him a treat we needed it outside right so um yeah man all very true one other thing i would say because you mentioned a guy going she won't submit yeah that verse starts with wives if you're quoting it it's over bro yeah it's over you should go ahead and skip down to the husband one and just do everything it says and trust the lord with the verses that he wrote for her there you go yeah yeah all right let me uh let's close this out with some rapid fire let's go all right we're gonna wrap we're gonna rapid fire close this out here's what we're gonna do we're gonna wrap both of them up and then we're gonna do the next one you know 30 35 000 uh uh we're gonna rapid fire uh objections to mega churches yeah who don't you hate those what yeah boo all right so here's something to do i'm actually we're gonna show it up here so this went viral like you probably don't know this because you're not you're not playing around on instagram you're actually doing things right now all right this went viral last week all right so we're gonna show it up here so here it was a little carousel post went crazy viral so here's what it says i'm just gonna read it and you can respond and david says in psalm 23 the lord is my shepherd yes so okay so have you ever shaken jesus's hand whoopsie daisy bro i saw one says you ever seen him on eye level uh-huh all right so they're just they're conflating things is what they're conflating there so how many names do you think you could remember minus your you know leave out your family i don't know dude man 500 a thousand i don't know you think you get to 500 like if i think there's probably 500 people on planet earth whose names i know okay but that's but hey listen that's on a good day and that's across my whole life well you gotta unlearn whatever you know so what this person is saying is once you get over that number that's not you that can't you can't be the pastor of those people anymore i mean it's just there's not okay just show me the text yeah just show me the text bro that's my thing like what what it's like it's easy for somebody to criticize uh can you imagine if we were just criticizing small churches yeah you know why you don't hear that because i'm not critical of small churches that's right praise god for small churches to be faithful man amen amen so that guy can feel that way and if he doesn't like it he can shoot me an email at jimmy craig scoring it now i will say that i although i don't personally shepherd all the people yet this is important but all the people need to be shepherded amen so we have about 70 pastors right now and 420 staff members and a army we have i want to say it's 2400 people that went through a six-week training to be on the care team we love we care we accomplish the roles of the shepherd we're not caught up in the title of who gets the badge yes right and so the sheep need to be loved and cared for in those things yeah it sounds like this guy has to have a title yeah so i think that's really important hey man does every single pastor need to know every single person's name hey that's dumb because we literally unless the apostle peter memorized 5 000 names in the first four chapters of the book of acts we literally got a bible verse that says the opposite of this correct but so does every single pastor need to know every single person's name no but at lake point you can be known by a pastor amen absolutely yes i think part of the myth is uh people like they'll be like well it's all about you yeah well actually i i have diversified responsibility maybe more than any like it doesn't have to all go through me i am not the single point of contact on things i'm actually the reason i do that is because we're like one body with many parts and i might be okay at the talking part and i'm not as good at this other part so we've got some other people that could serve you better in that area and maybe i can serve you better in the teaching of the bible kind of way but i'm not as good at this other part so we've got some other people that could serve you better in the teaching of the bible kind of area yeah all right so it's not about me yep but but but joey yes your church is too big you should just be planting churches we are okay talk about it well please don't fall into the tyranny of the oar bro that's it bro god always work always works in the genius of the end yeah because guess who all the church the church plants come to the big churches but will you fund us it's just true we have planted and partnered to by the end of 28 we will have planted 1 000 churches around the world there are more people that attend the churches that we have planted today than how many people attend 11 22 my gosh so it's not either or who said either or right we plant staff people we plant we partner with people all over the world africa and brazil scotland all over the place so yeah we do that yeah that's it's the same at lake point this is the same at lake point this is the same at lake point this is the well i'll get this every now and then most people are smart enough to realize that's a dumb question you know but but every now and then i'll get this there are no dumb questions there are lots of dumb people but it's like you know at lake point we started strategic launch network yeah it's like we have literally personally funded coached and planted it'll be over 100 churches in the hardest to reach urban centers in north america by the end of this year i think what honestly what people who what we do don't understand is hey man just because we plant a church doesn't mean that a everybody from our church is voluntarily going to choose to go do that right and b hey newsflash when we plant a church thousands of people don't magically stop trying to come to my church yeah well what actually happens is they they they get a whiff of the great commission and they're like i want to be a part of a church that is a conduit of the grace of god not a cul-de-sac of it and so and it's jesus's great commission and i'm just telling you when you are about his mission he will fully fuel and fund his mission and so he just keeps bringing more people and more people and more people that's right and we keep sending more people and more people and more people that's y'all the best at it uh but but joby all the mega churches they're just a mile wide and an inch deep joby you know you don't disciple anybody uh man i would i would love to introduce you to our thousand or so disciple group leaders and let you tell them that to their face let me brag before you finish talking let me brag i'm wearing the built for more hat right now oh yeah so like we recorded built by the way the uh the conversation we had on that pod is one of the best conversations i've ever had on any podcast we went some places i've never gone before if you're listening to this when they release that episode of built for more with me you and denny you're crazy if you don't listen that thing and before we before we start because you listen to built for more all the time just like i listen to livery all the time um i told you when you meet denny what you're going to see that's just a product of the discipleship processes of 11 22 bro and he's a guy that's just like he's like a drink a beer watch a game guy lost guy before stumbles into 11 22 and now dude here's i'm seriously i was sitting there stunned at what a great disciple that guy is amen and guess what happened i'll make it i mean i'll make it yeah yeah yeah anybody that ever says that i just know they've never actually attended or watched yeah my sermon because i mean we we just are going verse by verse through matthew yeah i got what do you what else do you want me to do yeah and honestly i don't care what you want me to do i'm not doing what you want me to do because i'm not trying to live my life for the approval of man but for the approval of christ because if i was trying to do what you want me to do then i cannot be a servant of christ relations 110 thank you yeah well but joey all all the mega churches they're just they're just big personality cults joey that's all they are it's a big personality cults um man like i said we know them all we and are there some bad actors and some guys that have had been terrible stewards of platforms that god has given them man sadly the list is long yes what you don't know is the list is also long of churches that you've never heard of because they just don't make the news and like you've said a million times before planes that land soft safely they don't make the news right um i mean i don't know what to tell you dude i am the person god created me to be and i wrestled through the parable of the talents all the time and i don't know if i'm a two-talent guy or a five-talent guy but i refuse to be a one-talent guy man and the whole point of that shout out dr piper is don't waste your one and only life i got one and only life what do you want me to do preach less or tone it down or cap it down or something like that i don't know the number of people that want to hear the gospel like say it out loud give me the alternative I'd be happy to hear it. So I'm curious, when somebody says, hey, man, it's getting too big, what do you say? Who do you want me to uninvite? Because I got a list, and right now you're on the top of it. That's that thing. So look through the Gospels. This would be a good, like, magic marker study of the Gospels. Look at every time the disciples turned inward on themselves. They get in trouble. They do. They're like, kids, get out of here. Get out of here. He's too busy for you. He's like, what are you, you fool? Unless you change and become like them, you'll never enter the kingdom of God. Hey, can my two sons sit at your right and left? He's like, you don't even know what you're asking for, okay? It never goes good when they're trying to cap the room. Look at the times where they turn outward. They get a high five from Jesus, feeding of the 5,000, okay? So what kind of disciple do you want to be? Because, you know, our vision statement at 1122 is we're a movement. We're a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus. My experience and my understanding of the Scriptures is the number one catalyst to help you deepen your walk with Jesus is to help other people discover theirs. Bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if it's all just about me and mine, you have lost the plot. That's right, man. Yeah. Dude, whenever somebody says that, so number one, it's the same thing. Like, what do you want me to do? What are you asking me to do? Are you asking me to tell, like, all these lost people, like, hey, y'all go home. It's too big now. You know? But the other thing is I'm like, nobody ever drives past a hospital and is like, you know, man, that hospital is just getting too big. They're just healing too many sick people. Yeah, right. What are you wanting here? What would be better if somebody could just say, hey, God bless that ministry. And my own preference based on my own experience is that's not the kind of church I'm looking to be connected in. This is the kind of church I'm looking to be. Bro, nothing wrong with that. Praise God for it. Nothing wrong with that at all. I know. Yes. Yeah. The other one that's like, well, I'm riffing on it is you probably get the same thing. And I might be a little, I might be a little overaggressive. And so don't put this on Joby. But sometimes people want to, like, I'll celebrate. Like, after baptizing 182 people, I'm like, absolutely, I'm sharing that. I want every person in the church to know the grace, the grace that we have to live in the window of harvest that we get to see. That, by the way, parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents in that region prayed for for decades. And we're reaping their harvest. Yeah, I want everybody to know about that. But, like, what people do after that is they'll be like, man, you're just all about the numbers. You're all about the numbers. And number one, I'm like, well, like, there's literally a book of the Bible called Numbers. So let's start there. Yeah. How many got baptized on Pentecost? 3,000. How do you know that? Because I wrote the number down. Acts chapter 5. By Acts chapter 5, there's 5,000. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And we tell, we try to also tell as many individual stories as we can. We celebrate every single one. Every single one of these baptisms, man. I mean, you know. There's a life there. There's actually a book with these names written in it. That's what we're celebrating. Amen. That's right. Lamb's Book of Life. That's it. That's it. And, by the way, what you said this earlier, I think is really important, is that, like, nobody's moralizing a church size. Because what you do, I have seen it. I have seen guys who pastor churches more like ours, and they actually do sometimes talk like small churches. They're bad and evil, and the only reason they're small is because they're bad and evil. Now, if nobody's gotten saved, it's a. That's a problem. The gathering of 125 disciples, and y'all haven't made one? That's a problem. Well, I mean, that's the thing, man. You're outside of. Here's the thing. I shared it on Built for More. I'll just go real quick. Gretchen's grandfather, Lloyd White, pastored a church called Lone Star. It might have 125 people in it, but you know who one of the disciples they made is. Her name was Gretchen Nicely. I met her in 2000. It became Gretchen Martin. And in 2003, when I was about to leave the ministry, that disciple of Lone Star talked me in to giving him one more chance. Also, when Pastor Jerry said, you should plant a church, I was getting calls from a bunch of big, very well-established churches to just come be on the teaching team. I went back to her again. I was like, it would be way safer. And she was like, I feel like God called us to make disciples in Jacksonville. And I was like, I just need you to know what you're risking. If this doesn't go good, I don't know what we're doing. And she quotes to me, Ruth. She just said, baby, I'm with you. Your God's my God. Your people are my people. Where you die, I'll die. Wow. Yeah. And so she put courage in me. And then 1122 is doing what it's doing. We've had over 5,000 people proclaim that Jesus is the Lord for the first time this year. And we baptized over 5,000 people. Okay. So all of the fruit of 1122. Hangs on the tree of Lone Star Church in Clifton Forge, Virginia. And when Lloyd White got to heaven and when I get to heaven, God's going to say, well done, boys. Amen. Well done. Amen. Our mutual mentor, Bishop Steve Stroop, he's got this fire line. He says, hey, man, big isn't bad. And small is not bad. Bad is bad. He's so quick. Bad is bad. There's big good churches. Yep. And big good churches. There's big bad churches. And there's small good churches. And small bad churches. Why? Big's not bad. Small's not bad. Bad is bad. Here's the thing I don't like about the word mega church. One, it's a comparative term, and I don't think we should be comparing churches to one another. Amen. Like, would you compare your kids? This is my mega kid. This is my mini kid. Like, no, man. It's just God designed that kid that way and that kid that way. So, I mean, let's talk numbers. In Jacksonville, let's see, on a good weekend right now, 35,000 people in the room. So, that doesn't count online and all that kind of stuff. Okay, 30,000 people. Jacksonville has, greater Jacksonville has about 2 million people in it. 2 million people. Bro, bro. And then we just looked at the 2020 census, and the most charitable look at it is about 25% of Jacksonville checks the box. So, let's just give it to them and say every single one of them have actually repented of their sin and surrendered to Christ. They're the most charitable. About 25%. Yeah. So, we only have 30,000 at 1122. We're not a, our city is mega lost. Bro. That's the mega. And again, it's not up to just 1122. Let me name some churches. Man. You want to hear the gospel? Yeah. Go to Celebration Church with Pastor Tim. Come on. Go to Chet's Creek. They just got a brand new pastor. Go to Beach Church because Pastor Jerry's still preaching there. You know, I mean, bro, there's churches all over the place, and we're not in competition. We have an enemy. He's the devil of hell that will still kill and destroy. So, again, I don't, I mean, the mega thing. What are you talking about mega? Bro. Compared to what? Compared to the lost people, we're mini church. We're baby. I mean, it ain't Ephesus. It ain't Ephesus. That's right. They're not shutting down sinful industries because of the influence of the believers in town. That's right. You know? That's right. Everybody's still drunk at the Jags games. That's right. Like, we got a lot of work to do. So. Yeah, I'll say that. I'll say that to Lake Point a lot. It's, hey, man, the only reason anybody ever thinks we're a big church is because they compare us to other churches. We don't compare ourselves to other churches. We compare ourselves to the size of the mission God has given us. What's that? To reach all people. So, we're not a big church. We are a really small church with a really big vision. There's 2.5 billion people on the planet right now that don't even know the name of Jesus. That's right. That's right. I'm not just talking about the lost people that are still parked in their driveway on Sunday morning in Jacksonville and in Dallas. That's right. They at least have access to the gospel. There's 2.5 billion with a B people that have no access to the gospel. It's about mega church. That's what you're talking about. That's pitiful. All right. Let me finish with two things. Two final objections here. This one's fun because, like, the weird thing about our lives is we know these guys. Yeah. So, this is one. Joby, all these mega church pastors, they're just greedy, abusive hypocrites behind the scenes. All of them. Yeah. You've never met one of them. Or if you met one, it was, like, one of the rare bad apples. Can you go find some bad ones? Man, there's no doubt. There's no doubt about it. And, man, it puts me on the edge. It puts a blight on the name of the prodigal. And I fear for that man when he stands before the Lord. I fear for that man. Yeah. Here's the thing, too, that people just don't know. I mean, did you set out for this? Dude, I was, you know, we talked about it. I started pastoring a—I grew my dad's church plant at first from 120 to about 76. Let's go. That was the first year or so. And, honestly, man, I remember having a moment where I was like, Lord, if I am here to, to faithfully pastor these 76, to reach as many as 76 can, I'm in. No, I didn't. In my wildest dreams. I remember when we hired Pastor Britt, we were running about 4,000 people. And we're talking about all kinds of stuff, multi-site and all that, which I— dude, if you cut me, I believe evangelism. I mean, I just want to see people come to Christ. On the—this is a side note. On APEST, Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Shepherds, Teachers, Ephesians, are you primarily evangelist? Which one—is that your strongest foot there? Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists? Angela Shepard, teacher? Yeah. I'm the strongest evangelist with some serious apostles. Definitely. I agree. Which, in regards to that, people will always put up with the sin of the teacher and the shepherd, and they'll crucify the sin of the prophet and the evangelist and the apostle. Bro, that's a bar. Because the shepherd and the teacher, they sin gently. Dude, you could completely cut the Great Commission out of your Bible. And keep the people in front of you comfortable, and nobody's going to complain. Just do a good wedding and funeral. Keep the shoremen short enough so you can get to lunch on time. No problem. Now, Jesus is going to remove his lampstand because that's not a church, but you'll be fine. You'll be fine. It's that thing that you say, the unwritten rule. Unspoken rule of the world, as with pastors. You take it easy on us, we'll take it easy on you. And the second a pastor breaks. Breaks that rule, all hell will break loose on your life. But that's the moment all of heaven starts to break loose in your church. Amen. Yeah, man. This wasn't my idea to begin with. Coach Lee made me do it. Then Pastor Jerry made me do it. And ultimately, the Lord commanded me to do it. And then I would have been totally fine being the youth pastor at Beach Church for the rest of my life. I was living the dream. Just making disciples of who the Lord put right in front of me. And then he spoke to me through a number of people and through his word. And so we started 11:22. So when I brought Britt in, Pastor Britt, I think we were about 4,000. And I pulled him aside and I was like, okay, I think we're going to continue to grow because new people are the best evangelists. Nobody's told them you're not supposed to talk about Jesus at work yet. So they're going to tell everybody and I think God's going to move here in that way. But listen, if the rest of our lives, we get to care for and disciple 4,000 people. That's what I do. What a life well lived. That's right. If that number is 100 or 150 or whatever, it doesn't matter because it's not a number. It is a, it's actually a family. You see, the church is not like an event you attend or an organization that you're a part of. It's a family you belong to. That's right. And, and Jesus is like, there's still some more lost kids out there that belong to me. That's right. And I'm asking you to let me partner with you to go get them. Go get them. And then not convert them, disciple them. That's right. Because the moment you get rescued, you become a part of the rescue team. Amen. Dude, the weird, you know, let's say one thing here. And then I want to finish on our last question here. The hardest thing when somebody says stuff like that or people imply stuff like that is like the weird thing about our lives is we know all those guys. I know. And we, and we, and we know what they're like behind the scenes. And it's like, like, bro, there's stories we're not even allowed to tell about sacrifices their families have made about, oh bro, the behind the generosity story. But I'm going to give a couple of examples without, actually, I'm going to use a couple of names that I know I'm allowed to, and I'll give some examples that I'm not allowed. So I'm going to do Philip Anthony Mitchell. So dude, that guy, it's the dumbest thing. I see some of the things people say about the guy online. I'm like, you idiot. Like literally, I have a righteous anger. Like what an idiot. Yeah. They don't know it. Like, dude, this is a, that's the most, honestly, he's probably the most well-known pastor in America right now. Correct. He comes, hangs out on the live free episode that dude, I'll get my, my sweat thinking about it because he just. Uh, he felt like a big brother in the faith to me and he prayed for like that guy has texted me almost every day since just to tell me that he prayed for me and what he prayed for me. So I'll, I'm going to text him and ask him if I need to edit this out. I will. I'm going to give an example. I wake up and that guy texted me in the middle of the night, which means he was up praying for me in the middle of the night. I'm just a young pastor that he won't pray for Josh this morning. I saw your face in my time of prayer. I saw the tears in your eyes when we sat across from each other. And I was deeply moved by the spirit to earnestly intercede for you. I pray for you. I pray that you would continue to be bold, a bold voice for truth, no matter the cost. I pray that you would see your highest reward is the crown you lay down at the feet of Jesus. I pray that you would see the fleeting nature of this life and all that will be dissolved, including the words of the da da da da. I pray that God would continue to burn your heart with a Holy fire to warn your heart. I pray that you would hear the words of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. I pray that you would hear the words of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit. When I listened to you and him, I was up here, headphones in, filling up feeders with corn, doing chores. It's been an intense season of attack, and I sent you what I sent you, and then both you and him, in kind of a Spurgeon-esque, not like thumbs up emoji, praise hands, praise hands, fire, fire, not that. Like some sentences that take a minute to write. One of the neatest things about getting to sit in the seat that I get to sit in is a bunch of my heroes have become my friends. And I'm telling you, man, Matt Chandler is a better dude than he's a preacher. He might be the greatest preacher of our generation. He's a better man, you know? The other thing, can you ever remember, like when we all get together, nobody's been like, "So what you running?" We don't talk about that. Literally nobody. "How's your daughter?" That's the kind of question. That's it, dude. That's it. "What's God been teaching you?" Stuff like that. So it's like you got this stuff like Philip, and here's names and no names. It's like one of the pastors of the largest churches that has ever existed. He's a guy that I know, he and his wife have every year worked up so that they, first of all, well, I won't say that, they tithe 60% of their income. Nobody's ever gonna know that. One of the pastors of the largest churches that's ever existed in America, he got to the spot where he wrote a bestseller, like one of the bestselling books in all of human history, paid the church back every dollar they'd ever salaried him, and then decided to reverse tithe. I know another guy who his family just decided early on that they wanted to personally fund 100 adoptions in their life. By the way, that ain't cheap. Let me tell you that. I've done that a couple times. And they set aside a massive part of their income. I know, I'll just shout him out, man. There's a guy named Larry Stockstall. He's a legendary, charismatic pastor, huge church down in Louisiana. And this number of stories I'll hear about, you know what happens if you walk into the auditorium at 5:00 AM on a Sunday, there's Pastor Larry, and he spends three hours in prayer before he preaches. We got a guy on our team, Mike Breaux, a total legend, complete legend, Pastor Southland in Lexington, then he was over at Willow for a while. That's a different podcast. And you know how that guy does? Mike Breaux literally could have pastored any church in America that he wanted to back then. You know what he did? He moved out to California to plant a church, help his daughter plant a church where there wasn't one. He spends his free time now mowing the lawns for widows in his neighborhood. And every Thursday morning, there's about 15 addicts that have no idea who Mike Breaux was. He's one of the most famous pastors in America. And he leads a little Bible study at Starbucks for recovering addicts. And listen, here's what I say, is that none of those stories ever go viral. That's who those guys are. And I'll say this, in almost every small church pastor in a little country town where he's got 280 or he's got just 50 or 80 people showing up, he's doing that stuff too. No doubt. And so it all goes back to that sentence. It goes, guys, planes that land safely don't make the news. And listen, man, if you don't like me because of me, that's on me. This is who I am. I'm not going to change. But if you don't like me because of the position God's put me in, that's on you. Yeah, that's right. Like, what does that have to do with me? Let me give an example of this as my last question. So, you know, Joby, I'll just, let me phrase it like this. You know, if a megachurch says you're just all about the money, Joby, if you're just all about the money, I know this because I know how it works. You are spending and receiving not a single dime, enormous amounts of money, time, energy, resources, so that you can be discipling people in correctional facilities, that's politically correct term for prisons, all over the country. You receive, you spend an enormous amount. And receive not a dime. Why? Hmm. We have received a little bit of money. One time a guy made a commitment of $2.25. Think about that. I don't know how hard it is to make $2.25 in the prison, but he did it. He's, like, paying us with his canteen money. So that's about what it is. I think that's the income so far. Here's the thing, because we're a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus. That's right. And there's no asterisk. There's no asterisk. And all means all. And every one of those men and women is somebody's one more. They're somebody's husband, somebody's wife, somebody's dad, mom. And so we moved in, man. could start a campus at Baker Correctional Facility. Part of the reason why is the guys at Baker have less than five years on their sentence, and they're all coming back to Duval County where Jacksonville is. That's awesome. And so our, like, state senators were like, if you want to change our city, if you can get a hold of these guys before they get home, make them better men. And then all we do is we just do church. We have a campus pastor, have a worship team comes in. It's just like all the other campuses. I'm on the screen. Once a year, I preach live from the prisons. Bro, I watch it every year. I love it so much. It's our most watched. I love it so much. So we go to Baker, and we're doing Saturated. We do Saturated in Baker, and me and my friend Jeff Kopp go in there to baptize guys at the end of Saturated. There's about 250 men out of 1,000 in the population that attend that campus, and we baptized 67 men that day. There had never been water in that baptistry the whole time any employee had ever been there. One of the second, third guys we baptized was the leader of the black gang. Now, I wasn't super familiar with, like, gang culture in prisons. You know, I mean, I've seen some movies, but I don't know anything. And apparently, regardless of what your actual gang is outside, when you get inside, you kind of just click up by race. And so the leader of the black gang goes, he's like second or third. We get to 66 baptisms, and I do the same thing Coach Lee did. I think there might be one more. And this skinhead white dude with the cuss word, the whole word, F-U on his forehead right there. You don't want to talk about intimidating while you're preaching. He's got a swastika on his head. Behind this ear, it says, if it ain't white, it ain't right. Whoa. He gets up bawling, and you don't cry in prison. I've learned that, too. He gets in the water. I ask him if he's ready to renounce the sins of his past, the ways of this world, anything dark or demonic he's ever been connected to, and pledges allegiance to Christ and Christ alone. He said, yes, sir. I said, who is Jesus? He said, my Lord and Savior. And I dunk him, and he comes out, and dude, he's yoked. I mean, he could have killed me right there. He comes out, hands up, soaking wet out of the tub. He steps out of the tub, and the guy from the black gang stands up, and they start walking towards each other. All the security is getting weird, and they hug. They freaking bro hug in front of 225 men. The guy that leads the black gang, looks at the group, and he just goes, it ends today. That's all he said. I'm like, what ends? What are we ending? He just said, it ends today. I may be off with a position or two here, but Baker was something like the second most violent prison in Florida. 18 months later, it was second from the bottom. The governor's office, which we have a wonderful governor here in Florida, if you were for things like life and liberty, and the constitution, things like that. His office calls me and says, what are you doing in prison? I was like, we were just doing church. He's like, what about recidivism? I go, that's your problem. That's not my problem. We just do church. He's like, what do you mean? I was like, we show up every week, same group. We just teach the Bible, help people get in disciple groups, take next steps of obedience. He says, you can have every prison in Florida. DeSantis. You can have everyone in Florida. Bro, he's like a disciple disciple, right? Yeah, yeah. All right, you keep going. He's also, I mean, he's an incredible legislator. He wants to get stuff done. I think he might be the best one. Yeah. So, we're like, okay, cool. Let's do more campuses. So, then we start two more campuses. So, we have three. And then we start one for a women's prison. And then the guy that was the assistant warden at Baker, the original, Warden Kish. He didn't even want to go, but he just drew the short straw. And we held services during his shift. And he was the manager on duty, so he had to sit in it. Well, the gospel got all over him. He gets saved in prison as the warden, assistant warden. He gets credit for the turnaround and the lack of violence. He gets promoted to Marion Correctional Facility. And then he calls me one Thursday. He's like, hey, pastor. I'm like, what's up, Kish? What are you doing? And he said, well, I just wanted to introduce you to the new, newest campus pastor of your newest campus here at Marion Correctional Facility. I'm like, say more. He goes, I'm the warden. I do what I want. So, we stream live your 722 Thursday night service. So, that pops off. So, they're around a couple hundred men there. About six months later, he calls me. He says, will you do baptisms here at the prison? I'm like, yes, sir, of course. So, I hop on my bike. I head down to Marion Correctional. We baptize, I don't know, a ton of people. I can't remember. 75 or something. Come on, man. You know who number one in the tub was? Warden Kish. Bro, what? In front of all of the inmates. What? Warden Kish gets in the tub, renounces the sin of his past, the ways of his world, anything dark or demonic he's ever been connected to, proclaims Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, and he gets up. Okay. After this, he starts calling all of his warden, his warden friends that he's known his entire life. And now, we have 27 prison outposts around the state of Florida that do 1122 every weekend. Come on, man. Because every one of those men are a trophy of the grace of Jesus Christ. Amen. And I don't care if you have oceanfront property in Ponte Vedra Beach or you're in cell block D in Marion Correctional. That's right. And he told me to tell you about it. And that's why I do what we do. That's like the book of Acts. That's a good place to finish. Pastor Joby Martin, would you pray for the people listening real quick? I'd be happy to. Josh Howleton, I'm proud of you, bro. God has a real unique anointing on your life. And thank you for handling it in such an. honorable, biblical way. So, you may have critics here on earth, but there is a great cloud of witnesses in heaven cheering you on, bro. Don't stop. Thank you, my friend. Let's pray. Thank you. Our good and gracious Heavenly Father God, we love you more than anything because you first loved us. Lord, we just kind of sit here amazed that you would use a couple of nobodies from nowhere at just the right time. You would rescue us and redeem us. And then by your grace, put us on the rescue team. God, may we never get over the gospel. I pray in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Joby Martin. Love you, buddy. Well, hey, thanks so much for listening. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Christ, live free, and change the world for God's glory. If you're already a member of a local church, we want you giving there. But if you'd like to make a donation to help this message go further faster, it genuinely helps us boost getting out to more people. If you'd like to make a donation, you can text the word "GIVE" to the number 20411 and then just choose "CHURCH ONLINE" from that drop-down menu. To find out more about Lake Point, you can visit lakepoint.church.