PASSION: Ireland’s Scissor Sisters and the Murder That Horrified a Nation

Hi everyone, before today's episode we want to tell you about what the fact. It's a new show from Connor Tomlinson, who you know from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum, and Carter Roy from Murder, True Crime Stories. Every week they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Connor's infectious energy will make you realize history is most fascinating thing on Earth. Follow what the fact, wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at what the fact upon. Hello, it's that time of week. We come together and we discuss another true crime case, and like always we are going to start off with a game. We love games. Red flag, we're green flag. So we're going to pick a couple moments from today's case and we're going to ask you, if you were in a relationship and your partner did these things, would you consider them a red flag or a green flag? And the case we are covering today, it is intense. It is a story of the Mulhall sisters, two sisters who on one violent night in Dublin decided they were not going to let a man walk out of their apartment alive. The event unfolded into one of Ireland's most infamous cases. Red flag or green flag. Do you like your partner while they're sober, but they turn into a completely different person after drinking? Been there, hated it. So red flag. Yeah, red flag. Yeah, I'd also say that was a contributing factor to me, not drinking hard alcohol anymore, because I think I was a different person. Red flag. Okay. Next one. Your partner brags about having been involved in the murder of a teenage girl. What are we doing here? I was just in here. I mean, again, I'm example of like why it's so hard to pick things that qualify as green flags in these cases, because I mean, that's a major frickin red flag. Yeah. And these were real situations from a real relationship that we will be discussing today. It is the relationship between Kathleen Mulhall and her boyfriend, Farah, Swale, nor everyone saw how destructive this relationship was, especially Kathleen's adult daughters, Linda and Charlotte, and on one alcohol and drug fueled night, they made a decision that would change the course of their lives and end the life of another. They called it love, but it turned deadly. Welcome to Crimes of Passion, a crime house original powered by paved studios. We are your hosts, Sabrina Diana Roga and Corinne Vien. Every Tuesday, we're exploring a different corner of the true crime universe, examining cases that left a permanent impact on society. This season, we're stepping into the world of romance. Where love turns to obsession, where logic slips away, and raw emotion pushes people past the point of return. If you're loving Crimes of, please follow rate and review us wherever you listen. It really helps us build this community and we love hearing from you. To get early access and ad-free listening, subscribe to the crime house plus community on Apple podcasts, and you can also catch us on YouTube where we include visuals that bring every case to life. Today we're talking about two Irish sisters, Charlotte and Linda Mulhall. They were already adults when their mother Kathleen left to their father and got involved with a new man. Kathleen was thrilled with their relationship at first, but it quickly became toxic and abusive. And after one horrific drug and alcohol-fueled night, it became deadly. A warning before we begin, this episode contains a lot of potentially triggering content, including descriptions of domestic violence, rape, sexual assault, grooming, emotional abuse, murder, dismembering a body, suicide, mental illness, and drug use. Basically, every content warning you could ever give. Yeah. It's heavy, it's a lot. One reason every time I think about this story, I place it in the 1800s, and I know that's just not true. It takes place way more recently, but there's something about it that my brain just puts it somewhere else because it's so I think gruesome and violent. Today, we are covering the story of Charlotte and Linda Mulhall who became famous in the press as the Irish Scissor Sisters, which is a very catchy headline and we'll use it for the YouTube title. Yeah. Because you're likely to click on this in the Scissor Sister Murder, right? Right. But there were zero scissors actually involved in this crime. No one's thinking of actual scissors. No. No, right. But it's definitely a bit of false advertising. Oh yeah, all around whatever you think it is, it's not. It's not that. But I didn't even really need that to capture the audience because this crime was so brutal and so salacious in its own right, and it was committed by women, sisters. And I think we can all agree murder is wrong. There's so much more to this case than the newspapers portrayed. Charlotte and Linda Mulhall weren't evil, remorseless monsters who committed an unthinkable crime just for the heck of it like the newspapers tried to paint the picture of. So today, we are going to unpack this case and get into the truth behind the gruesome murder and try to understand why the heck it happened. Cases like this are never simple, they're messy and comfortable. They force you to sit with the questions that unfortunately don't have easy answers. Like why can leaving an unhealthy relationship feel so impossible? And what does justice even look like when that person who ends up dead wasn't exactly innocent either? I think that's the biggest question of this case. Like it's so complicated given that the person was not an innocent person. Yeah. I feel like this is the first case that we've covered where actually like there were parts of it when I was like, oh, I could see myself being this person or helping or actively like depending on what the circumstances were and who this person was to me, I could be that person. And I feel like because we love true crime, we consume a lot of true crime, we have a true crime podcast. Oh, here you are. That's what we're doing right here. But I feel like in life, you and I have bantered back and forth of like, oh, if you were ever in this situation, like I'd call you, like you're the friend I'd call for help. In those moments, in moments where like that was conversation where I was like, oh, I could be part of the body removal. Yes. Like if it was you and there were certain circumstances, like there's not much separating. Yeah. Some things that happen here to some things that we might do for our loved ones. Yeah. They endured the same. You can definitely put yourself in their shoes. So our story begins when Kathleen Mulhall met Farah Swale nor Kathleen had spent decades in an abusive marriage and meeting Farah felt like a breath of fresh air, like a fairy tale, which is what we want for her. And that's what she wanted for herself, right? So Kathleen dove in head first. She kicked her husband out of the house and Farah moved in. She believed this was going to be the happily ever after that she always dreamt of. But the relationship quickly turned violent and everyone in the family, especially Kathleen's adult daughters, Linda and Charlotte noticed. And when things went sideways, they did what they always did. Protected one another at any cost, even if that meant someone had to die. There is a sharp chill in the air, the kind that settles into your bones. James O'Connor doesn't think much of it. The path along Dublin's royal canal is familiar to him, yet quiet, routine, almost meditative. He welcomes the cold air and appreciates how it wakes him up after a long day. Day is no different than most, or so he thinks. It's around 6.30pm on March 30th, 2005. As James makes his way along the path, he comes across a group of teens gathered by the water. They don't seem alarmed, rather, they seem giddy as they tell James that there's a mannequin floating in the canal. Something about this doesn't sit right with James, so he takes a step closer, impures into the dark water. At first he's not sure what he's looking at. The sunlight was fading, the water is murky, but as his eyes adjusted, he realized this was no mannequin. One detail in particular came sharply into focus. A leg wearing a sock. It is in this instant that James understands that this is no prank. The object in the water is not a mannequin. It is human remains. He immediately dials 999, the Irish equivalent of 911, and tells the dispatcher he thinks there's a body in the canal. Within minutes, first responders arrive and James points them toward the body. Cops corden off the area, with police tape as journalists and curious onlookers alike swarm the bridge over the canal. Under the harsh glow of the first responders' lights, everyone can see the black garbage bag bobbing in the water. Within these bags are the dismembered pieces of a man's body. In a matter of hours, the gruesome discovery is all over the news, and while James has no way of knowing this, watching from home are two sisters, Charlotte and Linda Mulhall along with their mother, Kathleen. Unlike everyone else, they do not need to ask how that body ended up in the canal because they already know, because they're the ones who put him. there. This is just such a horrific thing to discover on your walk. I like can't even imagine how surreal it must have been. I mean, it had to be because they literally thought they were thinking of mannequins, so it's like so out of place and looks so strange like your brain can't comprehend. But what's interesting is actually one of the Mulhall sisters walked the boardwalk that evening or walked the canal that evening during the discovery of this body, which is very on brand for killers, right? Very often like to go to the scene of the crime and witness others finding the body or like insert themselves into investigations. A classic. I always think of there's like, I think season one of Dexter, there's a crime scene and they're looking at the photos from the crime scene and one of the look you lose behind the police tape is the killer. It's like such a good. It's a trope because it's real. Yes. More on that bit. As the story unfolded, it became top news, as you can imagine, and with the media coverage, the pressure was on police to solve this case. But it would not happen overnight. In fact, it took more than a month to even identify the body, which is so wild. So again, you can imagine how unreal this body looked in the canal. And it took even longer to find the perpetrators. Fortunately, the case was eventually solved. And because of that, we are going to tell it from the perspective of the women responsible for this crime. The Mulhall Sisters. Yep. And we want to give a quick shout out to the book where a lot of this information and the details of the case was found. It's called The Torso in the canal, the Inside Story on Ireland's most grotesque killing written by John Mooney. It's a very fascinating way to sort of you want more. You can read that. Go check it out. Okay, so this story begins and ends with the Mulhall family. Kathleen Mulhall was born Kathleen Ward. She grew up in a working class family in Dublin, Ireland. And according to Kathleen, she had a pretty traumatic childhood filled with abuse. Well, she was a teenager. She met and married a man by the name of John Mulhall. Sometime in the 1960s or 1970s, I think based on the little like hard evidence that people know people think that she was like around 16 years old when they got married. So she's young. Yeah. But she is desperate to escape her childhood abuse and the toxicity of her upbringing. And unfortunately, as with so many cycles of abuse and like being unable to break generational trauma, Kathleen goes from one abusive relationship to another. They settled in a working class area in Tallah, a suburb of Dublin. John found work as a laborer and Kathleen stayed at home to raise the kids. Right away, this is a toxic abusive relationship. Multiple sources stated that this was a marriage marred by abused addiction and violent behavior, which by all means is an unstable and chaotic environment. John drank heavily and was violent in their marriage. And as this continued, if not escalated, they brought children into the mix. Yeah. Six kids, they had six children, three boys, three girls. And we'll get into some more details on that. But four of the six small hall kids went to serve time in some way or another, it's safe to say their childhood. And life at home was, you know, deeply impacted. Yes. And their future is impacted. So not the best situation to bring kids up in, right? That being said, the upbringing did do one thing for the kids. It trauma bonded them in a very powerful way. So they would do anything for one another. They depended on each other to like emotionally and physically get through life in this house. And there was no length that they wouldn't go to not protect one another. They became so deeply loyal to one another. Yeah. That was like the pillar of their family loyalty mattered most. And while there were six children, the most notable and pertinent to this case are Charlotte Mulhall and Linda Mulhall. Linda Mulhall was born in 1974 or 1975, unclear. And as a teenager, she was desperate to escape the toxicity of her home life. Also not unlike her mom, Linda found herself in another abusive home. So Linda dropped out of school. She started her own family. But again, like the cycle of abuse, copy paste, she found herself with a version of her father. He abused her and their four kids. And he basically ended up going to prison for it. But to numb the pain, she turned to drugs and alcohol. So she drank a lot and she used the drum, of course, was heroin. So very heavy. Charlotte wasn't all that different. She too took part in heavy drinking and also used a lot of drugs. But I mean, I think this is the biggest aspect of the case. This is so evident of generational trauma and the cycle of abuse and how it's continuing. Who knows how many generations it goes back? Yeah, I know. It's so sad. And it's heartbreaking because they aren't actively trying to break it. Like Kathleen was leaving her home life, her childhood home, marrying John, hoping for- Right. Like you see your package that you think is your escape in a different life. And you just, it's hard because it's like, you know, there's something familiar there. And then Linda tried to do the same thing. But yeah, it is upsetting. Hi, I'm Connor Tomlinson. You might know me from Love on the Spectrum. History is my thing and I have been waiting my whole life for a show like this one. And I'm Carter Roy. And this is What the Fact. Every week, three facts, each one with a whole story behind it. The worst years anyone has ever lived through. The golden age of pirates, the movies that almost never got made, the discoveries that rewrote everything we thought we knew. Carter sets the scene, Connor brings the facts. The tangents and the genuine belief that this is the most interesting subject in the world. It is the wildest stuff is real and the real stuff is wilder than you think. New episodes every Wednesday follow What the Fact on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod. You know their names. You know their faces, but you've never heard these stories. On celebrity ghost stories and A&E original podcast presented by rewind studios, you'll hear spooky stories directly from the actors, musicians, and athletes you love in their own words. What do you do when a spirit saves you from the edge of death when a single night in a strange hotel ends with you running for the door? From angry spirits to haunted houses to unexplainable magic. These are true first-person accounts told by the stars who lived through them. Follow celebrity ghost stories available now on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So Kathleen, she didn't give up trying. By the late 1990s to early 2000s, Kathleen and John Mulhall had been together for over two decades. That is a lot of time for her to endure what she did. She's living in her early 50s and their six children are all grown up. They're all living nearby. At this point, Kathleen and John's relationship, it is just loveless. It is like two people who are just co-existing and constantly fighting and just going through the motions of life. I do think it's important to note that while yes, Kathleen is trying to run away from this. She's also contributing to some of the behavior. Her and John together are like a terrible combination. They're both pretty abusive. Yeah. One night in 2001, Kathleen hits the town. She goes out to a bar where maybe it was a nightclub. There, she meets a man who's 10 to 15 years younger than her. His name is Farah Swale Nore. Kathleen was not looking for a relationship or chasing excitement. I think she just literally wanted to go out for the night and escape her home. But given her relationship at home, she was kind of a little bit starved for attention. And the idea of this new guy who could just sweep her off her feet was a little bit enticing. He appeared to be different. He appeared to have the answers that could break this horrible cycle that she and her family were enduring. Key word appears. Yeah. So Farah was an immigrant from Kenya. And at this time, he was in his mid-30s. He was incredibly charming. He was very attentive. And his relationship with Kathleen moves very, very quickly. To the point where Kathleen literally like kicks her husband of decades out of the home that they have together. She kicks John out. Yeah. For her to have the confidence after so much time to like now do it. Right. Like she could have left him for so many years. But now it's Farah's in the picture. John, you're out of the house so that Farah can move in. But Farah is not who he appears to be. He lied about his age. And he also lied a lot about his past. And so this is very pay attention to the details we are sharing with you now about Farah. So he told Kathleen that in 1996 he fled Somalia that his wife and kids were killed in the Civil War. He tells her his wife and kids were murdered in the Civil War. And Farah immigrated to Dublin, Ireland seeking asylum. The truth is Farah did not flee a war to her country. He actually fled from his kids and his wife who were very much still alive. And he just went to go start another family. And then he had to lie. Yeah. Yep. So he never even fled Somalia. He is of Somalian descent. But he's actually from Kenya. His kids and wife are still very much alive back in Kenya. He abandoned him. and in them to start a new life, it's super shady. I mean, lying about your loved ones, your wife and children being murdered. - Yeah, that is like unforgettable. - That's the biggest red flag, walk away now. - Yeah, but she didn't know. - Kathleen has no idea, right? - Yeah, because he's taken his life value, right? - Who would lie about that? - Farah, he lies about a lot of things. But then he doesn't lie about something in a second that I'm like, why would you ever talk about this? - But I'm like, why are you picking and choosing just? - Yeah, so Kathleen doesn't know any of this, so the two of them, they start this whirlwind romance, Farah moves in, it moves very quickly. But also very quickly, Farah's true colors do show. He is just as if not more abusive than her father and her husband, John, before him. The cycle repeats, Farah is not a good guy at all. So get ready for red flag after red flag after we've already given you a couple. So the biggest red flag. Farah claimed to be responsible for the murder of a 17 year old girl who had been killed in 1999. - Is that a red flag or is that just a crime? - It's both. He's claiming it. And it's not clear what Kathleen knew of this. She probably didn't know anything at the time, but it is pertinent to understand the type of man he is. So a few years before Farah and Kathleen met, Farah actually started dating a 16 year old girl. He is 30 something when he meets a 16 year old girl. He did lie to her and told her that he was actually 20. He and this girl get pregnant and have a son. They move in together and immediately Farah becomes abusive, especially when he drank alcohol. He would become abusive, controlling. He would beat her and rape her. A few years after they abuse this ex girlfriend, did manage to leave him around 2000 or 2001. So now, 2001 is when he meets Kathleen. But when Farah and his ex, the 16 year old girl, were breaking up, Farah said something incredibly chilling. So as some contacts back in 1999, there was a massive murder case in Ireland where a 17 year old girl named Rainid Murray was stabbed to death. This case is still unsolved. When Farah and his ex were breaking up, Farah made very suggestive comments that he was responsible for Rainid Murray's murder as in he killed her and was saying it as a threat to his ex girlfriend, basically being like, I could kill you too. You know what this reminds me a little bit of, is Joe Alligator. Just like the looming idea of there being people killed and like if you say anything or if you try to do certain things, like you could be next. - I think that's why there's so many elements of this case that does make me feel like it happened in the 1800s because it feels so Victorian in the way that people are behaving. - Yeah. - Like I imagine this and Jack, that we're happening at the same time. - And also it's just like we don't live in a landscape that has canals to walk true. So like that part, it feels like a little bit, like we're reading an old fairy tale. - Unfortunately it's true and it's a threesome. - Yeah. So the thing is Irish police, known as the Guardian, they actually did look into him regarding that case, but they ruled him out as a suspect in 2003. So why would he claim to be responsible for a murder? He didn't commit. - Because he probably did commit it. - And now that the Guardian really go. - Yeah, what abs? - It feels and especially like using that as a tactic to terrify your partner who's breaking up with you. He's trying to say, look what I didn't, look what I can do to you and I'll get away with it. - This is why it is very hard for people to leave abusive relationships because there's so much fear and there's so little security. And even if like they can safely leave, it's just like the idea or like the mental trickery that abusers play, so upsetting. - Okay, one more dark thing to note in "Forest Past" was that there was another woman who said that he raped her when she was 16 and that she also had his child. So both of these women testified about this under oath. So this isn't just hearsay, like this is actual on record, like documented reports. And while he was never fined guilty of murder, it doesn't mean that he didn't do it. - Right, so now this is two 16 year old women that he abused who both had his children and a 17 year old girl that he potentially murdered. And he lies about his wife and kids being murdered. So all of this is basically just evidence and research to show who Thara was. - Which is not a good person. - Not a good person. He had a long history of serious physical and sexual violence before ever meeting Kathleen Mohal and the larger family. But in 2001 when Kathleen met Farah, she has no idea about any of this. And remember, he's lying about like everything in his path. So how would she? So she's immediately smitten by this guy, he's younger, remember? And she marches home and tells her has been John, her husband of 20 plus years, to get the fuck out so Farah can move in. - Yeah. - That's wild. So clearly lots of drama, probably lots of violence and sights too, from this declaration. Because all of a sudden there's this new younger man moving into the house, like that is so weird. And they have probably so much concern for their mom. But Kathleen doesn't listen to any of their concerns because at first being with Farah feels like a burst of freedom. This is so dear John. - Yes. - Absolutely. I was also thinking about my own mom. Like the amount of people, like nothing. Oh, the amount of men my mom brought home, no. But like I remember when she did start bringing men around. Like the first guy she dated after her and my dad separated was a guy who was closer and aged to my brother than he was to her. And we were all like, what are you doing? Granted he was not a abusive horrible man, but still like as a child, being your parent, even though I was an adult, do that. I was like, - You can't like lose trust in your parent in a way. Like moral decisions for themselves. - Yeah. - So that's like basically I think what was happening with the kids. Kathleen is like, this is amazing. But that sort of delusion that she had pretty quickly shattered when Kathleen and Farah moved to Quark, Ireland about a three hour drive from Dublin. There the truth comes out and the relationship very quickly mirrors the old patterns of abuse. Farah becomes physically violent with her. She actually went to the hospital in Quark with fractured ribs. - So there's documents of this, like it's recorded evidence. - It's escalating things are getting so bad. Kathleen actually looks in Farah's phone one time and finds his ex girlfriend's number and Kathleen calls her because she's desperate for advice. Who the hell is this guy? It seems like nothing that I thought is real and I'm very confused. The advice Farah will never change. Leave him before it's too late. No sad. But sickles of abuse are very complicated. She's been a part of one like her whole life. It wasn't that easy. And on average it takes someone who isn't a abusive relationship. Seven attempts to fully leave their abusive partner. - So sad. - Which in a way I feel like gives a little hope. Like, you know, like if you're on number five and you feel like you're on number escape, just two more texts and you're there, like you're so close. - It's so complicated. - Yeah. So the relationship continues and Farah keeps abusing Kathleen and allegedly he rapes her as well. According to Kathleen, he also repeats what he told his ex about being responsible for the murder of Rhaeny and threatens to kill her too. - It is just so wild that he didn't. This is two admissions. - He feels like an evil villain too. - Right. - Like it feels like a caricature. As for a man to like all of a sudden like turn to his girlfriend, be like, you know, I killed a 17 year old girl and I could kill you too. - I just want to know more about the police investigation and how he decided that he was not a suspect anymore. Like he admitted it twice. Like what more do you need? Or do they need a evidence? And he didn't admit it to police. - So for four years, Farah and Kathleen remained in a very toxic relationship. No interjection helped. Every escalation felt familiar. Something that they had already survived over and over until one night when things took a turn. (dramatic music) Happy Halloween, Crime House listeners. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Did you know horror films like Abigail and Sinister were based on true stories? Join me every Sunday this month on Crime House 24/7 for Crime House of Horrors, where I dive into four stories behind some of our favorite scary movies. From Abigail, the autopsy of Jane Doe, Sinister, and the taking of Deborah Logan, you'll find one thing in common. The truth is scarier than fiction. Listen every Sunday on Crime House 24/7 or join Crime House Plus for all four right now. Add free. Subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or at crimehouseplus.com. - It is the day before Charlotte's 22nd birthday, March 20th, 2005, and she is in the mood to get the party started. Charlotte is determined to drag her 30-year-old sister Linda out on the town with her. She can't just leave the kids with a relative for one night. It's not every day your little sister turns 22. ♪ I'm feeling 22 ♪ - That song wasn't out yet. But they were feeling 22. - She was feeling it. And Linda can't say no to Charlotte. So they get ready for a big night out on the town in Tallah. It's early afternoon when they pour some vodka and start getting dressed. They finish their pregame and Linda and Charlotte hop on the bus headed for downtown. It is there, just near the McDonald's on O'Connell Street, that they meet up with their mother, Kathleen and her boyfriend, Bara. Bara seems just as ready to party. He and Kathleen purchase a bottle of vodka and a few bottles of Diet Coke at a supermarket, and Charlotte, Linda, and Kathleen fashion some mixed drinks. While Bara, he just drinks the vodka straight from the bottle. Uh, lukewarm? Yeah. That's red flag. Their drinks are great and all, but Linda has something that can make their night even better. Excessy. Linda, Charlotte, and their mother, Kathleen all pop a pill and excitedly await for the effects to kick in. Bara supports the women, but he doesn't partake. He prefers his vodka. They spend hours drinking outside, exploring the downtown, celebrating Charlotte's 22nd birthday. The day turns tonight. And the group isn't ready for bed yet, so they decide to go back to Kathleen and Bara's apartment in the Ballibu district. They get back to the house, the liquor is still flowing, the party is still going, but something has shifted. The moment they get home, Kathleen and Bara start fighting, and Kathleen is frustrated. Why is Bara always trying to ruin a perfectly good evening? She wishes he would just take a chill pill, and it did not moment that she gets an idea. She does happen to have a chill pill in the form of ecstasy. So Kathleen decides to crush one up and slip it into Bara's beer while he isn't looking. Maybe this will make him less of a buzzkill. The group continues to drink and hang around the living room, but Bara won't relent. Between violent outbursts, he starts making inappropriate comments towards Linda. Charlotte, Kathleen, and Linda are all disgusted, as Bara takes it to the next level and slides next to Linda on the couch and starts to put the moves on her. Kathleen is horrified, her boyfriend is hitting on her daughter in front of her. She watches as Bara whispers into Linda's ear, and Linda pushes Bara away. But Bara grabs her violently pulling her clothes, refusing to let go. Kathleen and Charlotte try to intervene, they yell at Bara to get off Linda. Linda tries to push him away, but this only excites Bara, makes him far more violent. Kathleen pushes Bara, Bara pushes Kathleen back. The room becomes thick with adrenaline and anger and violence. Bara then threatens to kill Kathleen, and Kathleen chokes something about killing Bara. Next thing they know, they're all seeing red. Both metaphorically and literally because the room is now covered in blood. This gave me a small flashback to someone that I went on a date with. That was, I definitely told you about this happen. Yes, I do remember. The guy walked up to our date spot, and immediately everything in my body was run. He hadn't even said anything yet, and he looked like a totally normal guy. But like my, my gift of fear was like, don't go on a date with the movie. He's dangerous. Yeah, but I mean, we like sit down. It's like a two o'clock drink or whatever, like it's on a busy Saturday. We sit, we have a drink. He's telling me his whole story is from Canada. He keeps ordering like lukewarm vodka and just drinking it straight. Like, no, I use nothing. Right. Yeah, and he's talking about like ecstasy and like all these drugs he takes. And as he gets drunker, his accent changes, and it was like full Eastern European. So I have no idea who this guy was. Is there anything that he was telling me to, if it was factual or not. But at 45 minute mark, I said, I gotta go. Thank goodness you were at a public place. Our friend Lexi went on a date with a guy. He went back to his place, and there was like a moment where he like kind of like cornered her. And like his eyes changed. And he literally said, you're scared of me, aren't you? With a smile on his face. Oh, this is why I can understand what where the story went. Yes. And what these women did. The actual events of this evening on March 20th, 2005 are a bit blurry. Because everyone had been drinking and excess obviously and drugs were involved. It was just like a very debaucherous time. But according to Charlotte Linda and Kathleen, this is what happened next. Farah threatens to kill Kathleen. Then according to Charlotte, Kathleen told her daughters to kill Farah before he could kill her. According to Linda, Charlotte grabbed a box cutter. And although according to Charlotte, it was Kathleen who handed it to her. Either way, Charlotte has a box cutter in her hand. And she uses it to slash Farah's throat. Farah then staggers backwards, crying out to Kathleen. Then Linda, who keep in mind was fully being assaulted by her mother's abusive boyfriend, grabs a hammer and then begins to hit Farah over the head over and over and over again. The blows send Farah to the ground where Charlotte continues to stab him with a box cutter until he was very clearly dead. So there are a couple really important things to note here. Both Linda and Charlotte claim that Kathleen told them to kill Farah. And they both claim that Kathleen's the one that handed them the weapon. So Charlotte claims that Kathleen handed the box cutter to her. And Linda claims that Kathleen handed the hammer to her. So then it's like it blurs like what's premeditated and what's not? Because like how wide does she have all these weapons within reach? They are just like average things that you would find in your house. But is there all in the room with one another? Well, I guess like, yeah, now that I think about it, my box cutter and my hammer are really close together. Yeah, mine are like in the same drawer. Okay. But given this description of the events of the night, in my mind, it is undoubtedly self defense. Like without a doubt, I'm like, yes, Farah is a bad guy. You, we just gave you his entire rap. She, he's not a good person. He was sexually assaulting, being physically violent with all of them. They could have called the police right then and there, told their story, claim self defense. Because I mean, I don't know how much they know about his past. But like now knowing, what are the police going to do? He's already committed so many crimes and gotten away with it. It's very complicated. But what happens next really muddies the story and makes it a lot harder to claim self defense. There, the three women stood, surely covered in blood over Farah's dead body. The adrenaline starts to wear off and despite the long day of drinking and drugs, reality of what just happened hits them. They have just killed a person, they have just killed Farah. And when the gravity of it strikes, they all begin just screaming. Also, they live in apartment, which is I think is an important thing to know. It's an apartment building. So there's other people? Yeah. Walls presumably paper thin. Yeah. So the three women are then panicking over what to do with his body, right? Because they don't want to be caught for this. So according to Linda, Kathleen said they had to quote, get him out. So there's a lot of Kathleen dictating what's going to happen in this situation. Yes. Also according to Linda, Charlotte tells her sister and her mother that they need to chop the body into pieces and they should dismember it to make the disposal easier. This is where I was starting to see myself enter the picture. 100% I was in the room and it was people that I cared about and this was an abuser. Like I'd be a part of this conversation. It's also 2005 and I feel like they probably are consumers of true crime in some way. Especially if they're suggesting let's chop up the body. It means and it implies that they have herd of stories. They've been curious about true crime. And if your CCTV footage is around you and to other people dragging like a big suitcase or a large body, it's going to be a lot more obvious than three women walking with oversized purses. Right. Or backpack. Also, bodies are heavy. So, especially when they're dead. They're in panic mode. Plus, also still drunk, probably high to some extent. All they know is Farah is dead and they have to do something. And I also know that given their history, the abuse in the family that they grew up in, I think the police have been called quite a bit during violent fights and stuff and nothing ever changed. So they probably don't have that much faith in calling in the police to help them. So that doesn't even seem like it's an option they consider. They, Linda and Charlotte, drag Farah's body into the bathroom and they spent hours working through the night cutting his body apart. And this is really gruesome, but it is also, I think, just a pertinent detail of the case. They use two knives and a hammer to dismember the body. That's so hard. Like, they're not leaving to go purchase it at the legal hardware store and create more evidence. Get like a saw. Use what you have. Yeah. And I guess like, in my mind, I kept being like, wow, they spent so much time with the body here and they just committed a crime and they were all screaming. And like, what if someone else calls? But I guess like the important thing to know is probably just how use two screams and abuse and overhearing disputes the neighbors were. Where they probably just didn't. Yeah. That's actually such a good point because this is Kathleen and Farah's apartment. Yeah. But so they spent hours dismembering Farah's body and putting the pieces into various black trash bags and gym bags. So Linda and Charlotte, the two sisters are the ones who are doing this. While they are doing literally the heavy lifting, Kathleen goes to the kitchen to have a smoke. At some point, Kathleen goes to check it on the girls and comments on how Farah raped her multiple times in their relationship. And also he was just trying to assault Linda previously. Yeah. slices for us. penis off, saying, now he will never rape her ever again, or anyone, which I, there's a little bit of poetic justice in there, and I'm not again, not condoning murder, but I do appreciate the poetic justice. Yeah. I feel like if it had come right after the murder, it would make more sense than like hours into divvying up his body, then it's just like, oh, yeah. When I think this like, I hope to touch to our wee right now, maybe hugely because like, that's so traumatic. Did you even remember what happened after I feel like I would completely block out and not remember a single thing? Yeah. So they successfully dismembered most of his body, and then they're left with the torso and the head. They placed a towel over far as head, and slowly remove it, taking turns with a hammer. And we're not really sure, timing wise, when this happened, whether it was immediately after the murder or sometime later, while they were already dismembering the body, but about 20 minutes before midnight, Linda picked up the phone and made a call. And can you guess who she called? She called their father, John Mulholl, who Kathleen had kicked out back in 2001 when she met Farah. And Linda tells her father everything. She tells him how they just killed Farah. And at first, John does not believe her. I'm sure she still sounded super drunk or just like so disoriented in a way where it was like, what's going on? What did you take? Are you using heroin? And also like you don't ever want to believe that someone you love could ever kill someone. Yeah. And he knew that his daughter had been using drugs. But even so, this conversation was really confusing, and Linda felt really, or she sounded really scared. So John was like, whatever's going on, I just need to go check on them. Right. But I do appreciate it. I need $3.00. Like he cares about his children. Right. Yeah. Like, there's something wild happening. Which, you know, I'm so glad that he did that because there are so many true crime stories where it's like an unsolved case where like someone does have some erratic behavior or what you think on the receiving end of the text or phone calls is erratic behavior and things that they're saying that make no sense to you. And then they leave their apartment and they go missing and then they're never seen again. And then it's like this horrible unsolved mystery. So I do, I am glad that he he went. So he decides to go check on them. He drives over to the apartment. It's 130 a.m. When he arrived, Linda reiterated what they had done with the body and still not sure he could believe it. John looked into one of the garbage bags, ran out of the apartment and then immediately threw up on the steps. He was an absolute shock, absolute dismay, and he told his daughters that he loved them, but he wanted absolutely nothing to do with this. So he left. I can't even imagine being put in that position because it's like we can acknowledge that John wasn't a great guy like he contribute to the cycle of abuse and the family that they grew up, the family of origin was not healthy. But in this moment, he desperately wants to protect his daughters. He's like, I can't encourage or help you in this, but he does keep it to himself. Right. Well, yeah, because he wasn't a part of the heat of the moment either. He's just being like, it's like phoning a friend and yeah, after the fact and like, that it is so confusing. Now he has to like sit with this too, like he has this knowledge. Now this is the part of the story where in a mob movie someone probably puts the body in a trunk of a car drives to a body of water or a remote area to dispose of the body. But yeah, or he said Dexter, it's like find the current, drop the bag. Unfortunately, neither Linda nor Charlotte had a car. So instead in the middle of the night, they walk a few minutes from the house to the Royal Canal and dump the bags of body parts in the water. They had to truly take multiple trips to do this. And according to Linda, Kathleen walked alongside them, which also makes me think that like Kathleen was just like not helping. Like she just literally just was like directing them. Yeah. Hard to me is like, was it just like a few bits of direction here and there? Or was she just so dazed? Sure. Because she went and smoked a cigarette. So it's like, it's hard to understand how much she was just like, you do this and you do that. Or was she just so checked out? Because I would also say like, if I was put in this situation and it was my mom with me, there's absolutely no chance in hell would be like touching anything or doing anything. That little woman would just be standing on the side and chocolate, not knowing what to do. Yeah. Okay, but this next detail is another reason that makes me think that they consume true crime in some way. Because while they dispose of like the body parts into the canal, they know that they need to dispose of far as heads somewhere else because they're like, if his body is discovered without his head, they still record can't identify him. So there, it's like, but there's a lot of logic there. That's a strategic thing, but they were like, we can't deal with that tonight. They instead had to focus on cleaning the crime scene because as you can imagine, it was bloody. And they'd also dismembered the body inside the house, yeah, specifically in the bathtub, which we'll talk about this later, but like people later move into this apartment without any knowledge. Yeah. So crazy. That should not be allowed. So they put far as head in a suitcase. They put it in the backyard for the night and they're like, we'll deal with that tomorrow. But for the rest of the night, they stay up cleaning the apartment. The next morning, they put the head in a bag and take a bus from Kathleen and Farah's apartment in Ballyview neighborhood to Talah neighborhood where Linda and Charlotte grew up and were currently living with their dad. So according to Linda's statement, she, Charlotte and Kathleen all went together. They stopped in a supermarket to grab something to eat, went shopping along the way. All the while carrying Farah's head in a bag with them. Then they made their way to a park called Phoenix Park. They dug a shallow hole using a knife and buried the head there, which I'm like, at this point, why not bring a more appropriate tool? You might have been digging with a knife. And why are you doing it so shallow and why are you doing it? Well, you can't dig a deep hole with a knife. It's going to take a long time. So it's almost like they made the right steps before to like not pick up on like, if there was any cameras or anybody watching, like was there someone like suspiciously walking and deliberately like walking somewhere? It's like, well, no, I don't just saw people like meandering and shopping about. I feel like the adrenaline is really wearing off now. I had to stop myself for a moment because I was like, I do not have so many opinions and like, insert, what would I do? It's appropriate. So this case, specifically, I feel like we can put ourselves in a situation. Yeah, it's women protecting themselves and their mother from an abuser who has threatened to kill them and is physically showing his power and that he's able to harm you like in the moment. He is not a good person. Yeah. No, he definitely feels like self-defense here. Okay, so lots of questions at this point in the story and maybe some opinions like we have or I have some people say that they were still drunk or high or maybe they were just really tired, but either way, I'm sure they were deeply traumatized because they just murdered a man together. Even though we could say it was self-defense, they were probably thinking like, oh, shit, we just murdered a man and we have to dispose of his body or else we will get in trouble for it. Yeah. So they buried the head in a shallow hole and then Kathleen tossed both the knife and the murder weapons, the box cutter and the hammer into a lake. And as we know, this is not the end of the story because the body was removed. The apartment had been cleaned, but now they had to face the reality of what they had done. Yeah. Linda was haunted by it. Well, Linda was just like trying to get a night out away from her kids like to celebrate her sister's birthday. The celebrate her sister's birthday and then she ends up being like grobbed by this man physically assaulted and then murder Sam and chops up a body. Can you imagine like going back home and being like, yeah, morning, what do you have for breakfast? Children. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is Charlottes 20 second birthday. Like, wasn't it the day before her birthday that they went out? Oh, yeah. Was it the night before or was it the same? Yeah, it's the day before. So literally the day of her 20 second birthday. She is covering up a murder. Oh my gosh. Happy birthday. She is. Some people blow up candles. Some people. Very heads. So Linda is super haunted by it. She's got these like visceral flashbacks of the murder over and over the moments of dismembering the bodies. It's all finally hitting her right. She was acting. Yeah. Did what she needed to do. But every day following that, she was just like absolutely terrified that someone would find his body that they would know what happened and find her her life would be over. Charlotte also was a wreck, but she handles it a little differently. So while Linda keeps to herself, Charlotte takes the drinking. She gets drunk. And a few days after the murder, she confesses to her younger sister Marie. She told Marie that Charlotte and Kathleen had briefly gone outside of the apartment. And when they came back inside, Farah was trying to rape Linda and that she and Linda then killed Farah. Similar to John Mohal, Marie did not believe the story. She was like, oh, you're just drunk. Yeah. It's so wild. Like I'm curious about everyone else thinks, like, would you, what would you do in this situation? Yeah. Would you believe someone would you, would you do if you were Linda or Charlotte be traumatized just like they were? Yeah. Yeah. So the murder took place on the evening of March 20th into the morning of the 21st Charlotte's 20s. I can murder that. And a few days later, passerby sees something floating in the royal canal. What they think might be a mannequin, right? So no one reports it for 10 days. And multiple people have seen it in these days. Yeah. Yeah. People are just don't think much of it. I actually recently saw a video of, and things needs to be censored better on the internet. I know. I was just like scrolling TikTok and I see it. saw a video of a body of like a boy or like a young man who had drowned and he was floating downstream and people spotted him and ran into retrieve his body, but if I had seen him floating down, I don't think I would have registered him as a body because of how different, yeah, it looks and like just like a face and body submerged in water like you don't clearly, it's not like watching someone float on their back down the water. Right. And I think also based on like the way the body decomposed, it looked like inhumanly white. Right. Yeah, I'm sure it was so bloated. Yeah. So yeah, a couple people thought it was a mannequin. It was visibly very white like a mannequin, so that makes sense. So it wasn't until March 30th, 10 days after the murder that somebody, James O'Connor from the beginning of the episode, calls authorities. The police went to the scene, sealed off access to the water and sent a forensic team to get their remains out of the canal. I remember this is like a chopped up body, too. This isn't they they have to find the pieces. Right. Yeah. And like it contributes more to why it seems like a mannequin. Yeah. It's like the Elizabeth Short, the black dial. Yeah. How she people thought she was a mannequin too because of just the way that she was displayed. The way that yeah, the body with her body was displayed. So they could tell, please could tell that this was a man, but two things were missing. His head and his penis. So for obvious reasons, this is an explosive news story. And when the sisters saw it on the news, it filled them with even more anxiety. Linda in particular had been so worried about someone finding Farah's head, especially after the remains were found in the canal. So she goes back to the park where they had buried the head in the shallow hole and she moves it to another field in another part of Dublin. According to her, she drank an entire liter of vodka, went and got the head brought it to this field, apparently kissed the bag with the head in it and apologized to Farah. And then just as like a morning, the next couple of details are really violent, but according to Linda, she then hit the head with a hammer trying to like, basically destroy it. And then she buried it in a muddy area and set up rare. Oh, I kind of feel like I'm going to faint. This is all very gruesome, but like for some reason that one details towards me. Meanwhile, the police weren't investigating the remains in the canal trying to figure out whose body this was and how they got there. A forensic expert analyzed bone and local water samples and determine that whoever this was, he'd lived in Valley View or the Valley View area of Dublin for at least six months. So I'm like, how can you tell that? I think based on like the minerals that are in your bone. That's so wild, but it's like so specific that way. It's like when people, you know, I was like a dirt sample and they're like, oh, this person came from a farm in Minnesota and you're like, what? Because of like the chemical deposits. Yeah. The authorities also determined that this was a body of an African man. At first, given the body had been dismembered, they thought that this had been a sort of like ritual killing. Yeah. There was a ritual killing of a young African immigrant boy in England a few years earlier, so disturbing. But the police in South Africa consulted on the case, said that this doesn't seem to fit the profile. So the Irish authorities were back to square one, trying to determine who this man was. How did he die? How did he get here? Who was motive to drop him up like this? The police appealed to the public for help and they shared that the body was found in an Ireland soccer jersey, which doesn't really give away much because everyone there in Ireland. Yeah. Who doesn't have one? Yeah. On May 9th, 2005, although less than two months after the murder, one of Farah's friends read about the discovery of the body and realized, wait a second, I haven't seen Farah for a while. Not since I ran into him on the street with Kathleen on March 20th. And then he remembered that Farah was wearing his Ireland jersey that night. So he picks up the phone and he tries to call Farah, but the number had been disconnected. That's weird. So then he reaches out to a mutual friend and finds that actually nobody has heard from Farah for some time. So Farah's friends begin to get worried. And Farah's friend who was initially looking for him, he shared his concerns with another friend and Irish woman who'd been out with him that night, who then called her police officer cousin. And this became the first big break in the investigation. So yeah, Farah's friend reports his concerns on or around May 9th. And when investigators run Farah's name through the system, they find records from when he first applied for asylum, like when he claimed he fled from Somalia. They also found reports from his former girlfriend, the one Kathleen called concerning his abuse. And 11 days later on May 20th, the police are able to track down the ex-girlfriend and they ask if they can test her son's DNA because she had a son with Farah to compare to the DNA of the body. She agrees, but they have to wait for the results. While they're waiting, they figured let's speak with Farah's girlfriend because if it is him who would know more about Farah, it's Kathleen. And the girls and she reported him missing if he's missing. Correct. So they go to interview her and they show up to the apartment that Kathleen and Farah had shared together, which we know is the place where the murder took place. But guess what they find? Kathleen had moved out. There's a new tenant in this apartment, unknowingly living in a active crime scene. Oh my gosh. Trying to take a nice bubble bath at the end of the work day. Maybe they have kids like bathing their two-year-olds in that tub. Forifying. So while again, they don't have evidence yet that it is Farah's body, they're like, while we're here, let's just do a little bit of a forensic investigation. They take samples. There's no visible signs of blood, but they take samples to test against the DNA from the body and from Farah's son. While they waited for the results to come back, the police's theory that Kathleen was involved got a boost. And you're probably wondering how? Oh, well, because of two of Kathleen's sons. On July 11th, they contacted the investigation team and told them that Farah was killed in Kathleen's old apartment. So four days later, the DNA result from Farah's son came back and they do confirm that the body belongs to Farah. And it also confirms that there was blood present in the apartment that he had shared with Kathleen. And it was Farah's blood. As the investigation unfolded, Linda and Charlotte were just so consumed with anxiety and guilt, right? This is the thing that they were dreading, someone fighting the body, someone discovering what they had done. So both of them were very depressed. They were drinking heavily to try to cope with what had happened. Linda had a history of panic attacks and she could not stop thinking about the murder. It was just like intrusively playing through her mind. She was so terrified of getting caught going to prison and losing her kids. Finally, on August 3rd, 2005, about four and a half months after the killing, the police arrested Linda, Charlotte, Kathleen, and John or John. I know. Under questioning, they all denied being involved and they were released without charges. There wasn't enough evidence to charge them of the murder yet. And Linda even threatened to sue the police for wrongful arrest. She's really taking like the hard stance in the opposite direction. Yeah. Maybe so intimidation. But Linda's youngest sister, Marie, was worried about their dad, John. It seems like she now believed her sister's really had killed Farah and she didn't want to see John's life get ruined just because they called him after doing that, especially for a crime like he didn't commit. He didn't aside from staying silent. There was no other crime. Yeah. So Marie told Linda that she had to come forward. She had to go talk to the cops or Marie would tell them what she knew. Before either of them could do either situation, John will haul himself. He's consumed by guilt and he decides to go to the police. John tells the police that Linda knows where Farah's head is. And John really believes that if the police press her enough, like Linda will show them and take them there. Unfortunately, like just before the police could go find Linda, Linda is hospitalized for what they believe is a suicide attempt, but she does survive. And after Linda got out of the hospital, the detectives do check in on her to see how she's doing. It's very informal. I think John is there too. They're sensitive to her mental state, but they do press her and they ask over and over. Do you know anything where as far as head in a conversation drove Linda to tears, but she still denied the killing until a few days later on August 19th when Linda called the detectives. She was so emotional that could barely understand what she was saying. For a month, she had been haunted by what happened that night and she was finally ready to talk. Linda Mulhall sits in the back seat of a police car. She picks up her nail bed nervous about what happens next. She's here on her own volition, but that doesn't mean she isn't terrified. She washes the sunset over the passing fields through the car window. She recognizes the desolate field. She's been here before and it's the reason she's here right now. She has just spent hours telling the investigators the story of killing Farah, crying as she spilled the details. She promised she would take them to Farah's head. The car slows and the time is now. A detective opens her door and motions for her to get out and she does as she's told, unable to take her eyes off of the spot. She will never forget the details, or seared into her memory a part of her now. Trambling Linda leads a detective past piles of trash, passed a burnt out car to the spot where she reburied far as head. She walks to the ditch, drops close to the ground, and points out a cement pipe. She tells the detective she dumped it into the stream there. The detectives thank her for helping and dismiss her from the scene. They send her home with another officer and when they drop her back at her house, she apologizes profusely, even hugging the officer. She knows that she's probably going to prison, that she will probably be separated from her children. But maybe this confession is also a new beginning that she's taking accountability and starting to move forward from what happened that night. Man, I can't imagine just like having gone through all of that and then just like being eaten alive or like you can't even live like you're not living when you're just so consumed by what happened to you and what you did and yeah. And I know that they were like acting and fear and panic with the like dismembering the body and disposing of it. But there's just so many parts of this where I'm like, how would this have happened differently had they called the police immediately after the murder? Right. Yeah. Because they still would have gotten in trouble in some way. It's the disposal. Yeah. That makes it feel worse. Brings it up to a certain level. Yeah. With Linda's assistance and confession, police were able to arrest her and Charlotte for the crime. Linda was arrested in September of 2005, Charlotte in October of 2005 and they were both charged with Farah's murder. The police then arrested John Mulhall in November of 2005 and there convinced that he had some part in it, especially with the cover-up, considering the late night phone call. Yeah. John admits that he did go to the house the night of March 20th and that he did see what happened and that he did get rid of the carpet that had been covered in blood. There was a little bit that he did to help cover it up. But the police have sympathy for him and they understand that he only lied to protect his daughters so they let him go. But John Mulhall himself couldn't let it go. He could not forget seeing the crime. He couldn't forget seeing how his daughter's dismembered Farah's body, that guilt of holding onto all of that knowledge was just too much for him to bear and very, very tragically in December of 2005, just a couple of months after his daughters were arrested for the murder with the trial looming and the knowledge that he would have to testify against them. Yeah. John Mulhall hanged himself in a park in Dublin. God, I feel so terrible. It's so heartbreaking. Yeah. Oh. Linda and Charlotte Mulhall's joint trial began in October 2006. They both pleaded not guilty and by now the case had become a media circus. Their faces were blossomed all over the tabloids in Ireland and UK. This was like a giant story. Yeah. And the coverage was super relentless. It painted these women as monsters. The words evil, murderous. Like this was all over the place. Yeah. And they were most infamously dubbed the Cesar Sisters, which is a riff off of a band name that was really popular in Ireland and UK. We also know the other implications. Yeah. Anyway, catchy term. People are going to read that article when they see it. Yep. But no scissors were used in the crime, nor in the cover up. Right. The case got wall to wall attention and probably for two reasons. One, it's like so gruesome. And there was a dismemberment. And also because these were women, like women who kill is such an interesting topic because it's not the typical profile of a murderer. It's not something that you see on the news. When you hear someone's been murdered, you can pretty much assume it was a man. It was a man. So the crime went against the nature of what the society expected. Yeah. My biggest question at this point in the case is where the heck is Kathleen Mulhall? Because both Charlotte and Linda have been arrested and they're standing trial. Where is their mother? Who was just as much involved? Right. Just living it up in our new apartment. I don't know. No, we do know. Kathleen fled to England to avoid being arrested for her role. And in the cover up, leaving her daughters to stand trial all on their own. And I do have empathy for Kathleen, her whole history. She tried to break the cycle. She did also contribute to the cycle to the point where, and this is where like the story gets a little complicated, where I think also abuse and abusive relationships are complicated. But Linda once made a comment in the vein of it shouldn't have been Farah. It should have been my mother. So like there is so much more complicating. But I think that she probably said this after the fact after Kathleen's like runaway, just abandoned her daughters to deal with the thing on their own. Like she could have said that in anger. If we believe that things occurred the way they did or the way that Mulhall sister said that it did, which I do believe Farah was absolutely deserving. But I do think this sentiment shines a light on the really complicated relationship that Kathleen had with her daughters. Yeah. Well, they didn't have a good upbringing. So many of them were in and out of jail. All of them had substance abuse problems. Yeah, it is very tough. And that is also evident with the trial too. Kathleen runs away and Linda and Charlotte have to face light, face to face reality. They go to trial. During the trial, the prosecution argued that Linda and Charlotte were on a drug and alcohol fueled binge when they killed and dismembered Farah and then disposed of his body. But the defense argued that Linda was provoked. And since Farah was groping her, she panicked. And that is essentially what happened. And Charlotte's lawyer argued that she was protecting her sister. To support their case, Farah's ex testified about his history of abusive behavior. And that other woman who said that he raped her when she was 16 also testified, which she would think would result in the not guilty verdict, right? Right. Like everything we know about Farah and his background, like if I was on that jury, I'd be like, no, they were self-defense. They killed the monster. Right. Who was haunting and trying to eat them. Unfortunately, that's not the case. And in October of 2006, Linda was found guilty of manslaughter. And Charlotte was found guilty of murder because she was the one who used the knife on Farah first. In December of 2006, the sisters were sentenced. Linda got 15 years and Charlotte was given a mandatory life sentence with the possibility of parole. And if you're pissed about Kathleen running away, don't worry, the police were as well. Oh yeah, they were not going to let her go away. In 2008, the police located Kathleen in England and convinced her to return home to Ireland, where she pleaded guilty to her role in the cover up. And in 2009, she was sentenced to just five years in prison. Because she took a plea deal. Yeah. Yeah. This case absolutely devastated the Mohaw family, not just Kathleen, Charlotte and Linda, but also John Mohaw, who died by suicide. He's another victim in this in the end. Later, one of the brothers, the Mohaw family, like the son brother, was arrested for robbery, claiming that he was trying to get money to feed Linda's kids after they, Linda was put in prison. Yeah. It also tore the sisters apart from their mother. According to Kathleen, Linda became completely estranged from her mom. And for a period, Kathleen and Charlotte stopped speaking, although they appeared to have recently reconciled. Linda was released in 2018 and a reporter tracked her down. Linda said she just wanted to move on with her life. As of today, Charlotte is still in prison, but for Christmas, 2025, she got like a temporary release to go spend Christmas with her family. Oh, I like that. Yeah. She's reportedly anticipating a full release date. Yeah. Kathleen's out. She only had to do five years. And there's so much to debrief on this case, regarding the case itself and family. But there is another person whose family was impacted by all of this forest. Yes. His family is family in Kenya. The one that he said was murdered. Well, they were not. They're very much alive. And apparently far, I kept in contact with them and had been sending them money. So we have no idea what the story is that he spun here. But the children seemed to have loved him. And the murder was absolutely devastating. Yeah. He had been financially supporting them. And now with his murder, they were without financial support. And the family who thought very highly of Farah had to process losing their father. Which who knows if they really knew the real Farah, but either way, like I think whether or not you have a good relationship with your father or view them as a good person, losing them, especially in such a heinous way, like the murder and the dismemberment and like the sensationalism of this case would be traumatic and devastating and really, really hard to process. Anything so public too, where it's like everyone has something to say. Yeah. It's really tough. According to an article in the Sunday Tribune from 2009, Farah's wife said their daughter died of shock shortly after his death. She also said that her son was struggling and had lost interest in school. And then there's Farah's mother who also told a very different story, like very similar to Farah's wife and kids. Farah had stayed in touch with his mother over the years to the point that even Kathleen had spoken on the phone with her. Farah's mother told the investigators that in March of 2005, Farah called his mother saying that Kathleen had threatened to kill him and he wanted to get a knife to protect himself. Which might be true because Kathleen and Farah were very volatile and probably threatened to kill one another all the time. I mean, we got to see that with the relationships you have for 20 years with John. Exactly. And also far exhibited that behavior in the relationship with other relationships, you know, I think both are true. It was a tumultuous relationship in both parties contributed to the violence. His mother was very, very devastated because she was unable to attend the funeral in Ireland and they were unable to return his body to Kenya for financial reasons. So far as side of the family was furious with the Mohaws. They did not want to believe that there far did anything wrong and fully believe the Mohaws should pay for their crimes. I guess we'll never know for certain what happened that night. But I really do believe the story that the Mohaws told, especially given far as past. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean, there's very little reason to believe otherwise. It's just his mom is saying he's great. Right. And his wife and kids. Which how long did he actually spend with his wife and kids? I was at his wife and kids know that he lied and told everyone that they were murdered. When he actually just abandoned them. And did they know that he admitted to murdering someone else? Right. And that he was crazy actually investigated and reported twice to have raped children. And that's just what's reported. Just what's reported. Yeah. There's an Irish detective who said that if they had called and reported the assault, Farah likely would have been put in jail that night because he had a record and he was known that night. Right. And then the lead detective on the case, again, this is so easy to say after the fact, but said that if they had called the police after the killing without dismembering him, they likely would have gotten off with just manslaughter and lighter sentences. But that's so easy to say after the fact. Yeah. And it's also like it's a system that I'm sure the Mohaws felt failed them over and over 100%. And it was a system that Farah cheated over and over and over again. Exactly. Yeah. So this is one of those cases that leaves you or maybe us saying murder's wrong, but what would I have done in that situation? Totally. I could see myself getting caught up in doing exactly what they did. The panic. I think about the person that you like love most in the world. Yeah. Who's so deeply close to you and me. You've been watching them struggle for so long. Yeah. Like this is. It's so sad. Yeah. And I kept picturing like if my mom's friend, this is not real for me, but like if I were in the situation and my mom's abusive boyfriend was trying to assault me or my sister and got violent, I would like to think that I would defend myself or defend my loved one. Exactly. Yeah. And then I'm John. You call me? Yeah. And I come over and then it's like, what do we do? Yeah. And according to the Mohaw sisters, that's what happened. Linda was being attacked. Charlotte would have stopped at nothing to protect her sister. The tabloids ran with a story of the sister's two evil women murderers, but it wasn't as black and white as newspapers wanted it to be. Linda and Charlotte were truly haunted by the memories of that night and they had to pay in more than one way. A very sad story. I know. But that is also the end of the story. We would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you so much for listening. Again, we are your host Sabrina Deanna Roga and Karen Bian. 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