Part One: Elizabeth Dilling: The Original Candace Owens

(upbeat music) - Cool, so media. - Welcome back to Behind the Basterds. This is not the first episode of the podcast we've done this year during the official summer, but it's basically the official legal Christian summer. Right guys? Team, isn't it? It feels hot as hell outside today. - It's gonna, but only for the next couple days, and then it's gonna be in the '60s. - Oh, is it? - Yeah. - And then Mother Nature will water my garden, and then I'm thrilled. - Great, I'm glad that Oregon won't burn down yet. - Yes, yes, Katie. - Oh yeah, Katie Stolls here, legend. - Hey everybody! - How hot and or on fire is it where you are? - Oh yeah, both of those things. I am in the mountains, but it is an unpleasant. Well, it's 85, it's 85. - It's not too bad, yeah. - So be worse. - We had some 90 degree days last week, but I moved to the mountains thinking it would be cooler and boy was I wrong. - Yeah, it gets hot. It gets hot. - Lots of burnable brush all around me as well. - Also. - Yeah, everything catches on fire out there. That's the beauty of living out in the country. - Yeah. - And they defunded one of my, they closed one of our fire stations anyway. - Oh, that's always so good. - Oh, good. It's not like California needs a lot of those. - It's wild time. - I'm only bringing up the summer 'cause I had my first, every year when it gets hot again, I remember, okay, I gotta put out sunscreen before I go run this time. And then 15 or so minutes into that first run of the year with sunscreen. I remember, oh yeah, when you sweat with sunscreen, it burns your eyes like a son of a bitch. So if my eyes look like red and puffy, it's because I just finished running a shower and my entire face was on fire from sunscreen. - I actually thought it was 'cause you were crying. - No, no, so big. - Like, oh, you've been touched. - I would tell you if I was crying, but this is simply self-inflicted friendly fire. - Self-inflicted friendly fire. Another piece, why are you wearing a sweater, man? It's cold hot. - It's cold in my basement. - Yeah, 'cause they were cold in the basement. And my AC works. - And we're talking about summer and you're all bundled up. - I am wearing my hoodie or my sweater, yes. - Meanwhile, Katie and I are Lucy Goosey. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - I got my Lakers Luka Doncher shirt on. Shout out to my haters. Okay. Anyways, Robert, did the job. Should we do it? - Yeah, shall we do the job? Katie, stole, how are you doing today? Podcasting wise. - Pretty good. - I'm sitting here with my old pals who might have missed. - We missed you. - I have missed you too. And I have missed talking to you about shitty people. So I wanted to give you a special shitty person today. We talk a lot about old timing, far-right influencers on this podcast, the guys around the 20s and 30s and 40s of the OG American fascists. But we haven't talked a lot about the history of women in the early history of women in the American fascist movement. And the crucial role, different female influencers have played in the American far-right. And so today we're gonna talk about a woman who you could call the first Candace Owens, or the first Laura Lumer. You could make a case. She's got bits of both of those, both Candace and Laura. Oh, a little bit to this lady. We're gonna talk about this week, Elizabeth Dilling. Have you heard that name? - Elizabeth Dilling. - Do you see why I was like, "We need Katie for this episode?" - Yeah. - Okay, I'm excited. Not know anything about Elizabeth Dilling. - She's not. - Super famous. - Yeah. - She is the B side who are more famous fascists than I think you will recognize from later on. But like again, because I guess of misogyny, she never quite got as famous as her male fascist counterpart. - Well, what's the patriarchy? - Yeah, the last spot on Netflix. - Yeah, you could say we don't know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - There's no rules here. - If you've watched Netflix, they don't give a shit. - Yeah, you're right. - They barely know what's on their own network. - Thanks, Netflix. - Thanks for the money. - This is an I Heart podcast. - Guaranteed human. - Lisa, tell them about our new show. - We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Juaneo, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. - And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. - Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. - Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up, comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. - It's the True Crime Comedy Podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guess. - Ooh, I scammed them. - What? - I could talk to you for an hour. - You're a generational yapper, like me. - That's why I had to make yapping a job. - And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. - Start listening to Scam Goddess on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hi, this is Kylie Breakman, Angel Jaretana. - Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. - And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. - The Improvized Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. - Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. - And we do a little Halloween sometimes. - Does the Pope dress up? - He winks on Halloween. - It's right up next to the microphone. - I hear you get the elbows here, the eyelashes hit each other. - You never seen it least so quiet. As when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. - Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists, every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Self-Cast September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask why am I like this? I'm Gemma Spek, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast, and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment. - Sometimes our biggest decisions without us even realizing it aren't driven by what we truly want, but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. - Listen to the Psychology of your 20s on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Elizabeth Alois Kirkpatrick was born on April 19th, 1894 in Chicago. Now, if 1894 in Chicago sounds familiar to you, that's because that is the same year in city as the Pullman Strike, which is a legendary moment in labor history, began as a local Chicago strike that became a national boycott and changed US labor law forever in the process. And that strike itself was heavily inspired by the trials of the 1893 economic panic that fractured the US economy and helped fuel Eugene V. Debs' creation of the American Railway Union, right? So Chicago, at the time Elizabeth is born, is a real hotbed for labor, for this burgeoning and really exploding American left, which is growing into what some might argue, and probably still to this day, would count as its most influential period in American history. It's kind of coming up as a result of the things that are sort of happening right around the time Elizabeth is born. So it's kind of going to be important a little that she's, she's never going to adopt any of these kind of politics, but they are happening around her and very much in the environment that she's growing up in. Like her family is against a lot of these changes, but she's going to grow up hearing about them 'cause they're right outside her door, you know? - Sure, yeah. - Yeah. So little as Elizabeth comes into the world in a time and a place that was hugely significant in the history of American labor and the struggles of the working man against his bosses. And so it's appropriate for the person she would become that even as an infant, she was entirely separate and protected from the normal world of working class people. This is happening outside her mansion gates, basically. - Yeah. - Her father, Dr. Layette Kirkpatrick, was a famous surgeon and her mother, Elizabeth Harding, was a homemaker, but both came from very prominent families, right? So both of their families have some degree of like financial comfort in her dad, at least initially, is this like famous doctor. The Kirkpatrick's, her dad's family, had been wealthy landowners in Ireland, but had fled near the end of the 1800s and settled in Virginia. Lizwood later's described her father is coming from Scott's Irish stock and some googling around because it has given me a cause to think that her family, basically, if you've ever heard of like the Irish land wars, this period of time in which like there's a lot of conflict in Ireland over like who gets to own what land, there's a lot of conflict as a result of these like, absentee landlords that piss off a lot of people. Well, her ancestors are some of the absentee landlords, right? - Oh, 'cause they do the absentee ones. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. 'Cause they're like a Scottish family who winds up owning a lot of land in Ireland, you know? - Yeah. - And I don't know that the Kirkpatrick's had to flee their family estate because they were brutal landlords, but my research does make that seem likely. - Sure, and it's always a good, yeah, yeah. We don't talk enough about Ireland's land wars. It sounds like we're setting up for a family that does not learn from those lessons perhaps. Perhaps they're here also resenting the different classes around them. I don't know. - Doesn't learn from their lessons. - And it has like a long time grudge against anyone trying to like fix things 'cause they just see that as like you're fucking with my big, you know? Like that's the people that she comes from. So let's talk a little about the Irish land wars because people don't often enough and it's a fun bit of history. Only about 5% of the land in Ireland from the late 1700s to the end of the 1800s was owned by Irish Catholics, despite the fact that Irish Catholics were most of Ireland. People got very angry about this and it led to successive waves of protests and even violent, insurgent direct action. action. It is very possible that their compactrix had to flee because they wound up on either side of this dispute, but the fact that they had a family estate and came to the US with money makes me suspect that they weren't fighting for the freedom of poor men, right? These are probably on one specific side of the land wars. Pretty sad guess. Meanwhile, the Harding family, Elizabeth's mother's people, came from a long line of Anglican bishops, which also makes it likely that her dad's people were foreign landlords at some point. She grows up fairly well off in a 2002 article for the Journal of American Studies, writer Christine Erickson, describes her family as "financially comfortable upper middle class," right? That's where they're coming from. Her parents have enough money that even though these are pretty rough times, they're able to travel fairly regularly, but they're not able to send the kids abroad with them. So Liz grows up not traveling much herself, but her mom and her aunts are always visiting Europe, spending their inheritance, and she grows up hearing about that. Sure. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for the parents anyway. Sounds fun. Yeah. The ones to bring your kids. Sorry, kids. You had to stay. Mom and dad are off for a bit. But also in this period of time, mom and dad are off for a bit for like eight months, because yeah. It takes a while. It's not a flight. You're going to be raised by some lady we hired by. See you when you're nine. Yeah. Exactly. Be back in a year, baby. Yeah. Maybe her father died when she was relatively young, and this was, he dies a sudden and surprising death. And Liz leaves her mother in charge of the family. But it says a lot about their overall financial state that even though her father dies pretty early on, this never affects them financially as far as we could see, right? They remain comfortable, which means they're very well off. So she's going to grow up with extremely conservative values and politics, but she's also going to grow up because her mom is the only one running things after a while. She's going to run up very, grow up very used to seeing a woman call the shots, right? And this is going to have a conflicting effect on her, right? Because she both comes to believe that like traditional values are best. And also she's used to women being in charge in her own. Yeah. That's kind of tough to square at that point in time, I guess. That's going to say. Yeah. I was going to say, as are you, Robert. Yeah. Yeah. It's very reminiscent of this, where she was a very conservative person and also did not understand why men should be doing anything like those were two ideas that go existed within her. Yeah. As Amy Dye wrote of Elizabeth and her graduate thesis for East Tennessee University, for East Tennessee State University, quote, "If her father had not died, she would not have been exposed to such a strong independent woman as her mother. Before Dr. Lafayette Capatrix's death, he strongly believed the woman belonged in the home and away from both politics and business. In contrast, her brother Lafayette was encouraged to pursue a business career. And at the age of 23 had acquired financial security through land development in Hawaii. He subsequently traveled around the world for three years with Baron von Zeppelin and continued to lead a privileged life until his death in 1948. Again, for an idea of the money she comes from, her brother is best friends and traveling buddies with Baron von Zeppelin. It doesn't get much older money than that. Then Baron von Zeppelin had her own trip with the Zeppelin guy. So yeah, they're doing fine even with Dad out of the picture. Little Elizabeth would be described during her childhood as, quote, "highly emotional and an eager girl with a dramatically sculptured face, enormous brown eyes and a quick, giddy laugh, somewhat lonely and casting about in search of a career." Which is also interesting. She's a very, she will always espouse very traditional values. She's always looking for a job for herself. She never is interested in just being a homemaker, not, you know, to, no problem with that. But she is never interested in just sitting at home and raising kids. She wants to do something out in the world that people are aware of. It's actually a very fascinating, dynamic for somebody, I mean, we're seeing it still to this day. Yes, your mother, I guess, was this way, but this is this big push in the conservative party for traditional values, and yet they're going to be advocating for their own careers. It seems counterintuitive, but interesting for this woman. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's the Phyllis Schloffley thing, right? Of like, I don't think women should be doing any of this stuff. Also, as a woman, I really, really like to have a big career. And also like modern times, that's very Erica Kirk. Yeah. Very Erica Kirk. That is exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if either of you have seen any of like the interview clips from TPUSA's like first big like women's event that Erica Kirk led, it's all when people are interviewed, it's all like this, where they're like all over the map on if they're like, well, women can have it all, but they have to do this, but women could have it all. But not those women. It's really interesting coverage just to like get an insight into that ideological thinking. It's fascinating. Anytime you have to be, you have that much cognitive dissonance in your belief system, it always winds up being fascinating on some level. And like in a way that I just, there's no way there would be an Erica Kirk without a list dealing without a fail, sadly, without, you know, it's all she had to crawl so that Erica Kirk could. That's right. I don't know. I don't know who's doing that. Whatever. So Erica Kirk could come out with a fire booming. Fireworks. Yeah. Behind her. So Elizabeth attends grammar school in a secondary school. She's going to nice schools her parents pay money to get her quality education. She studies the concert harp at a Catholic Academy. And she graduates from a girl school and is noted as having an almost photographic memory. Her early interest where, and this is not a normal, like her education is weird because I can't graph it directly onto a normal one because she is both doing like normal primary school, secondary school and also Catholic Academy women's preparatory finishing school. But she spends years in schools that are just to like teach you how to behave as a woman. Like that part of part of her schooling because she's like an upper class lady, right? It takes a lot of you got to know where all the forks go and stuff. I imagine there's more to it than forks, but forks seem like they're pretty key up stand up straight. How to smell straight. Not straight. That's right. Had a ride side saddle. Side saddle. There's a way you're supposed to ride as a lady that's the polite way and there's the rude way. Maybe side settles the rude way. I don't know much about horse. Maybe feel like side settles should be reserved for men anatomically speaking, but I digress. Look, the horse girls can correct us because I don't know much about riding horses. I know there's a way you're supposed to ride and there's a way that you're not supposed to ride as an old timey woman. But I don't know. I don't know which is which. Anyway, she goes to all these different weird schools. She learns how to be a lady and a good Catholic. She's interested primarily in both classical music and the French language. I don't actually know if she ever gets what you'd call a normal college degree. But during her time in Catholic school, she was made to study the Bible. And so this is kind of like knowledge and faith are always weirdly wrapped up with her, but also knowledge and like the performance of societal roles are always directly locked together. She never just gets an education that's an education on its own. It's always an education partly in how to exist in a certain social hierarchy, if that makes sense. It does make sense. As Amy dyer writes in 1917, as the first US forces are getting their boots dirty in World War I, Elizabeth meets a man described as a young army officer from Arizona, who, quote, "introduced her to a completely new way of thinking. This is her first fascist boyfriend." So she meets this mystery army officer who starts saying, "Oh, you got to read these books, right?" And so he starts giving her a cut and Nietzsche and Hegel and next, quote, "After introducing Elizabeth to these forward thinkers, he contradicted himself by saying, 'Women did not count as human beings.' Oh." So he's like, "You need to read this Nietzsche, but you're a woman, so you can't read it. You're not a person, but here you should have some Hegel." But here, read it. But you're not really a person. You're not going to get it, but here God is dead. I get the, she doesn't say this, but I get the feeling He's like intermittently flirting with her and yelling at her, like it's one of those kind of weird guys and she's totally doing it. You would have ever been flirted with by a fascist soldier from Arizona. You would know that that's part of the game. That's part of the day. That's how it works. Yeah. Well, she gets that beautiful experience and you can tell it completely awakens her, right? This is where she becomes an ideological thinker for the first time. And the fact that her ideological awakening comes courtesy of a man who does not consider her human is very telling and very bleak, but what else are you going to say? Nothing. I have empathy because I have a feeling she's not going to be someone I like. However, it's just a holy shit. It's pretty fucked up. Yeah. You guys could check out. Just imagine like trying to tell your, like, your other lady, friends, like, yeah, this wonderful guy. He introduced me to all these great books. I'm really thinking in new ways about like, what makes a person a person? I don't think I'm one, according to him. Anyway. He's nice. Doesn't he? He's really. She's fit. Anyway, this does not last. I really wish I knew what happened with this guy. Maybe he was just too much of an insult or maybe he goes on and dies out in World War One. He can only hope he dies in World War One. Yeah. I'm hoping the old dub dub Uno did us a solid on that one and any rate, not long after whatever happens with this guy in she continues reading philosophy and she starts thinking really hard about the underlying order of society. And as she's thinking about this, Elizabeth meets her future husband, Albert Walwick-Dilling. Now, I don't think Albert Walwick-Dilling is the kind of guy who's going to tell her she's not a person. He's the guy. I get the feeling he's very ideologically malleable. I think he's the kind of guy who's going to tell her she's not a person. that naturally more conservative, so he's comfortable with her ideology. But I also think he goes along with her a lot. Yeah. Okay. And I think he gets one of the things he gets from her is that he gets to pretend and feel like and she will reinforce that he is in charge will also being in charge of a lot. And so he doesn't have to be in charge of as much. Oh, exactly what you mean. You've seen these kinds of relationships, right? 100%. She's like, I defer to my man, but she's the one that's telling him. Yeah. I defer to my man. God help him if he has an idea of his own. I defer to my man as long as it's he goes with what I said. Exactly. So at the time, he was a lawyer. He had trained as an engineer originally. He had been born in Salt Lake City back in 1892. But the time he was ready for college. And I don't think he was Mormon. I think it probably would have mentioned that. She certainly is not. And I don't think she would have been cool with the practicing Mormon given her beliefs. But I'm not really sure. By the time he's ready for college, he migrated to the Chicago area. And he took the Illinois bar in 1917. Now, Elizabeth had already refused one marriage proposal by the time she met Albert. But for some reason, this guy sweeps her off her feet. And after nine months, the two are married and the romantic city of Laporte, Indiana. This would have been made of 1918. Yes. Yes. The city of love itself. The city of unbridled fucking. That's what we call Laporte, Indiana. That's the city motto, actually. Laporte, Indiana. It's illegal to buy condoms here. You know, just so you know, Laporte, everybody catch the fever and something else because again, condoms are illegal. After this point, Elizabeth Kirkpatrick, though, is now Elizabeth Dilling. And this is the name that she's going to be famous under, right? Everyone knows her as Elizabeth Dilling. That's how she becomes Elizabeth Dilling. She marries this Albert Dilling guy. She's 24 years old in 1918. And after a brief honeymoon, she and Albert moved to the to a suburb of Chicago, Willment, where they borrow money and buy a home. Albert claims that when they got married, he had, quote, nothing to offer, but a good education, bright prospects, good help, and some sizeable debts, but Liz had family money of her own. In just two years, Albert was made chief engineer of the Chicago sanitary district. And his career would continue to rise over the coming years. While he was making a career for himself as a high level engineer for one of the largest cities on earth, he would eventually become the city engineer for union station development and the engineer assistant, the commission for public works. Liz was inheriting the money that would ensure she never needed to utilize public works herself. Her husband helps make sure that like the city's public like transit works and Elizabeth adherence enough money that she doesn't have to use it. Yeah. Great stuff. I can only imagine they're they're like 2026 dating profiles. Oh my god. These two in 2026 are definitely the weird natalist freaks who wind up on the news every six months talking about like their 11 kids that they're having to change the world with Elon Musk. Yeah, Liz, Liz Dilling definitely like puts her credits on her dating profile. Yeah, I can see her having an interview with Vanity Fair where she slaps her child at a fucking diner. Yeah. So she receives enormous inheritances from two aunts and then in the mid 1930s from her mother. So she's very comfortably off even though her husband is not making a lot of money immediately. But her husband is making come from a middle class income. So you have inherits a lot of money and a good income. They're doing quite well and they're doing well enough that in short order before either of them is particularly old, they're going to have enough money to do what wealthy people do in this period of time in particular, which is go on really long and elaborate vacations all the time. So from 1923 to 1939, the Dilling's travel overseas 10 times. And these are on multi week or multi month excursions. We're talking like orient express type shit where you're on trains and in fancy boats, you've got sleeper car like that these are not like casual vacations. You can't just jot somewhere quickly, right? Yeah, no, this is this is yeah like her mother months long also famously a bad time for the world financially to not have the needs to dress travel like the okay. They're mostly traveling although they are through all the 30s too, you know. So yeah, like a lot of it is wearing a really rough time. Yeah, not the main takeaway here, but yeah, they're doing certainly fine. It says a lot about what they're doing while the rest of the world is burning. Yeah, while the rest of the world is falling to fascism, they're going on like long elaborate vacations, right? They're doing very they're very comfortable. Their first trip overseas, they get to tour England, the low countries, France and then Italy at which point they enter the Vatican city and have a private audience with the Pope. So they have like Pope money like that's how comfortable she is. Amy Dye writes that the Dillings had booked this trip in part to get a firsthand account of the aftermath of the first world war, right? Like that's a big that's at least what Elizabeth wants her friends to believe that like we're not just doing this as a vacation. We're doing this to like get an eye on how Europe's handled, you know, after the war, right? Like that's the way that she frames this. Making my eyes roll back. It's it is okay. Here's we're just going to go study. We're going to go check it out. I can tell you from experience, if you're in like an active war zone, there are often a lot of people who are eager to talk about what's happening to them right now in part because they hope that like maybe international attention will like help their situation and like it's happening right now and they want people to know about the horrible stuff. When you go to a place that has just been at war, like a couple of years ago, they don't usually want to talk about it. They're kind of trying to forget it. So this is just like, it's a vacation. People don't, yeah, 19, 19 people wandering around, like don't want to talk to much of America's big. So yeah, what was the war like? Here in Burden, you know, was it fun? Did you enjoy it? Like people would not have a good time and don't want her shit. Completely devastated trying to recover from, yeah, no bad timing, babe. Yeah. How did you, how do you think it was, Liz? Bad. And this seems to be what the dealings encountered. People are not super eager to talk to them. As dies account says, quote, "Dilling became frustrated by the anti-American attitudes that she had encountered amongst the British and the French. The former allies often gave the United States no credit for helping win the First World War and often complain that the United States had not entered the war sooner." So yeah, I think people didn't really want to talk about the war and like folks who lost all their money and like their kids didn't want to talk about how great America was for eventually getting involved. Like some fucking British family who lost everything doesn't it be like, yeah, thanks guys. Really glad you got here in 1917, right on the dot. Yeah. Yeah, it's not surprising. Not surprising. She takes this personally. She takes this as an insult to herself. On the steamship home, an English traveler sees a member of her party who's wearing like a sailor outfit with US Navy printed on it. And he just like starts shit talking like them is like, "Ah, your Navy's a joke, you Americans." And Liz responds, "I don't know if it's such a joke. It's been a little great Britain twice." And I think it could do it again. And first off, Liz, the last time it beat great Britain was 1912. Like, or 1812. Like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if we should be bragging about that in 1918. Just seems a little ahead of the eight ball. It's not been, it's been a while since we fought the British Navy. I don't know, Liz. The, and also it's just like what a ridiculous reaction to someone saying that he's clearly like frustrated that you're walking around talking about what hot shit your military is when you just kind of saluted in the last minute of like a devastating war. I get why the Europeans are pissed at her. Absolutely. This woman has no self awareness. No. And this situation, this whole encounter with this rude person on the boat causes her to make a vow. Then and there, that if another war ever came to Europe, she will work herself to the bone to keep the United States out of it. Because of these ungrateful Europeans, I'll make sure we never enter another war to support Europe again. You know, that's Liz's encounter here. Or it'll take over. It's really sad. I'm not surprising. I mean, no. I'm always, I'm whenever in here, it's impossible to not draw parallels to modern day, party than it's several times. But it's like, it's just so pathetic. How easily some people get offended and vowed to make that their idea of an entire place for the rest of their life anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I think they didn't need anything to do with honestly. But anyway, you know what else is sad? Not listening to ads. Oh, heartbreak. You know what? You're right. It is such a heartbreak. I love ads. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my god, Lexi. We have a new podcast. I'm Lexi Iwaneo, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. I'm not going to get anywhere to fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If man were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. Hi, this is highly-breakman, Angel Jaretana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is foe journal. I don't know. I think I sort of foe journaling. Yeah. It's reading. It's called reading. Yeah. So, we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sudako in the Thousand Paper Cranes by Auderman Donald at the Wonderland Bookstore, 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Doc 30. No way. I have to have the last bookstore though, Kim Catrol is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. It's right up next to the microphone. I hear he'll get the elbows here, the eyelashes hate each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists. On the iHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scam them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. When the scams run the gamut, I'm talking about scams from the 1800s, all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents, tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning, and protecting yourself from criminals. You're listening to scam goddess on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Scam goddess. By age arriving or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is therapy for black girls. We spent real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all this end up. We got into group chats and gaming, friendship and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that a road's trust. You're belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then they're fitting in. Fitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists, cure gains on black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have more shorts so you can't do flips, you have one to dress you up across your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. We have to get off our device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adult and your life to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to therapy for black girls on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. We're back and we're talking about how we never skip the ads on podcasts. Never. What does that mean? Sometimes I listen to extra ads, you know. Sometimes I listen to ads that aren't even for podcasts. Sometimes they just fall asleep directly in front of a billboard. You know. So I can worship it. Do you have an ad playlist to forbid time? Yes. It's only an ad playlist for bedtime to be fair. All right. So let's get back to Liz Dilley. So yeah, Liz has just had this experience heading home from Europe where these ungrateful Europeans were not different enough to the US Navy. So she decides to stop the US from ever helping Europe in a war again. I don't know if I believe that actually happened. In part because Liz is going to be like anti-war during World War II because she's a fascist. And I think maybe she invents this story because it's like a more palatable truth. As opposed to like, I don't want the US to get involved in World War II because I like the Nazis. She could be like, no, they're so ungrateful. After all, the rudeness they showed us last time, why would we risk our lives again for them? You know, I kind of think maybe she just makes this up after the fact, but it's possible that this actually happens. Like I don't know one way or the other. Despite their frustrations with Europeans, the dealings continue to book regular trips abroad throughout the 20s and the 30s. And at first, this seems to have been mainly for the sake of hedonism. But I think Elizabeth's strong Catholic upbringing makes her feel guilty for just traveling to have fun. I think this is why for most of these trips, there's always a second purpose like, oh, we wanted to explore how World War I affected them or we want to, she's going to explore communist countries at a certain point in the future. And I think part of it is that she feels bad about just spending her money on vacations because she's a cat. She's fundamentally a Catholic in her soul. I mean, she's an Episcopalian as an adult, but she was raised Catholic. You never get over that shit. I think there's an element to that of like, this trip has to be more than just a trip. Otherwise, I'm not being a good person, right? Whatever the reason she's not being a good person anyway, but she's not being a good person anyway. But she's, this is important. So she starts convincing her husband to let her book trips, like their yearly vacations to the communist countries, which have just started to be a thing, right? The communist revolution, you know, has just swept over what had been imperial Russia. And it's starting to take other places too. So this is like the first time which you could have gone to a communist country, right? Kind of in the 1930s, 1920s and 30s. And so she starts convincing her husband to start booking trips for these different, for like Soviet Russia, right? Because she wants to study the impact of communism and eventually write books about it. So in the summer of 1931, her husband helps the books trips to Moscow and Lynn and Brad. Now, Elizabeth is later going to write a book about what she saw in the Soviet Union, and she will express her horror at the nightmare she saw there. At the quote, "Atheism sex degeneracy, broken homes, and class hatred that she witnessed in the post-revolutionary USSR." And indeed, the Soviet Union at the start of the 30s was a nation that had recently endured great horrors, a horrific civil war, and was currently enduring horrors. The horrors of the Stalinist era, right? It would very soon endure even worse horrors, the horrors of the Nazi invasion. So, you know, it's a tough time, Russia in the 30s. There are plenty of things that Dylan could have seen in Russia in 1931 that are horrific, right? Plenty of things that would have actually reflected badly on the Soviet government. However, it's important I let you know that her hatred of the Soviet Union is not based on any of those things. When you think about the actual bad things that were occurring in the USSR in 1931, Elizabeth isn't allowed to see any of them. She's on a vacation that she's booked through the Soviet government. They have minders. She's not traveling freely. She's only visiting the areas they're allowed to visit, and so she's not being horrified because she's like snuck through and seen some evidence of a fuck up that the government was covering up of StarVay. She's angry because she's seeing like churches that have been turned into like art museums. And she's like, "Aaaaah!" She's angry at the beautiful part of her mind. She's losing her mind at it. Right. She's pissed about like, "Oh, the people here aren't as well fed as Americans and like where they under the czar. Is that the Soviet Union's fault or is that just the fact that like it's Russia in 1931?" Like again, I'm not going to minimize the faults of the Stalinist stare of the Soviet Union particularly. But you can't just be like, "Wow, people aren't as big in Russia in 1931. That's just communism." No, Liz. That goes back further. I'm sorry, hun. Like the laziest possible take away from what she presumably saw, but okay. Yes. And again, the Soviet Union is very well aware that Western countries are spying on them constantly. They are looking for people like Liz Dilling in these trips. So again, I don't think there's any chance Liz would have seen any actual like bad things, right? Like making this up based on like shit she sees that's like uncomfortable to her. And the primary things that she sees over there that are uncomfortable to her is that she doesn't know there aren't rich people in the Soviet Union that she sees, right? She notices none of the people of my class are here, right? There's no fancy places to go. There's no high end hotels, right? And the society is openly atheistic and that's what she is reacting to. Christine Erickson summarizes Dilling how Dilling would later describe her trip. She noted with concern, the idle crowds and abandoned children roaming the streets, bordered by rundown buildings and desperate need of repair. She described in vivid detail the poor miserable workers' stores where the proletariat was forced to shop. What little food stocked the shelves was overpriced and fly infested. The site of Christian churches being converted into anti-religious museums and the shock of seeing nude bathers swimming a river under the shadow of one Moscow church. An event Dilling captured on film clearly signaled to her that communism bred atheism and encouraged immorality. So whatever bad things are actually happening this Soviet Union, remember when Dilling talks about the horrors. of communism, she's talking about nude bathers near a church. That's what scares her. Not anything else. Not anything else. Not anything else. Not anything. That's Stalin, you know, not the UKVD. Offended by poverty and atheism. Yeah. Well, I love the abandoned children. They're naked. Yeah. She was in London. I'm sure there are abandoned children in Moscow in 1931 because they've just had a civil war that killed millions of people, millions and millions of people that was vastly exacerbated by Western involvement by the way. You know, like, yeah, you can't, again, you can, you can't look at any of the stuff she's seeing and just be like, well, this is all the fault of communism. That's just silliness, right? And so ironically, while Liz is going to spend the rest of her life talking about the nightmare world that she saw, the things she's scared about are like any effort to reduce inequality and any effort to reduce the power of the church. That's what actually upsets her. She would also complain later in her writing that Soviet men seem to have no interest in her at all. They didn't find her hot. The bedblocks in the grand hotel in Moscow were wild about me. The listless waiters, not at all. Which Erickson suggests is Elizabeth trying to display, quote, "an unsettling image of communism's power to emasculate. How could any man ignore dealing?" These men aren't even straight if they don't like me. Like, again, her big issues with Stalinist Russia are nude bethers. I'm not hot. Why? Just honestly, babe, it just does not sound like the place for you to vacation, you know? I don't think, I think you picked the wrong place to vacation. I don't think Moscow in 1931 was for you. Yeah, again, your timing is all off. Your timing's really bad. If you've gotten a Moscow in 1917, things might have been a lot more interesting, Liz. Definitely. At least from my perspective. Her call to action came during a tour of the Moscow Museum of the Revolution, where a party guide told her tour group that the world revolution, which had started in Russia, had now expanded to China and within the United States. He then showed them an exhibit that featured a fictional map of the future world, where a communist US had renamed all of its cities. And, you know, this is obvious propaganda, right? Like, this isn't an evidence of the actual capabilities, as we all know, of the Soviet Union's ability to infiltrate the United States. But this works perfectly on Liz. She, and this is everything she needed to in terms of like a useful thing she could carry home for her propaganda. So when she gets home, she is eager to preach the bad word. Elizabeth claims that when she tried to tell her friends, her suburbite intellectual friends, and my own Episcopal minister about what she'd seen over there, they expressed bitter opposition to her telling the truth about Russia. Now, I don't know how much I believe that. I can't imagine people who are better informed than her saying, Hey, Liz, like, there's obvious issues going on over there and with that government, but it doesn't seem like you actually know anything about those issues. It seems like you're just angry that there are any like luxury stores and they don't believe in God. And maybe that's dumb. Like, I wonder, maybe that's what her friends were saying is like, Liz, it doesn't seem like you actually know anything about the problems over there. It seems like you're angry, though, it tells weren't nice. Yeah, Liz, are you a, uh, Alita snob? Maybe that might happen in here. Do you suck? Oh, okay, it's impossible. You just suck. Liz, is it possible that you're kind of an asshole? Wow. I am imagining her friends always being relieved when she goes on one of the big journeys and then they're like, oh, my God, she's out for a couple months. She's going to bring out the photo album. She's going to want to tell us about it. I don't know. Just pretend you're horrified or whatever. Yeah. Like, I do wonder how much of this is them having an issue just because they know she's full of shit. And I suspect even more, it's just like, oh, shit, I don't want to see Liz's vacation pictures. You want to see a video of people swimming in Moscow. I don't really care. Like, who wants to watch this shit again? I went swimming, but then they didn't have caviar for me afterwards. It was a hard trip. Hell, hell. And Liz sees the fact that her friends do not find these stories entertaining evidence of their own suicidal blinkered blindness. The kind that would lead her very class to march to its own extermination, if it wasn't careful. So she became a woman on a mission to ensure her fellow citizens understood the extent of the communist menace. And particularly the infiltration of leftist agents at every level of American society and government. In one of her early pieces, Elizabeth expressed her belief that good Christian women did not have the right to sit at home and avoid conflict as a fire burns in the nation's basement. And radical political subversives fill the platforms with their dirt and anti-American ideas. So she's very pissed at her fellow rich friends for not, you know, doing more to stop this, to stop the spread of communism. She sounds like a joy, a joy to have it in her place. She sounds like so much fun, just to hoot. Yeah. Again, if she'd had Twitter, she would be nonstitute of law left all of her friends and family behind to tweet nonstop. Like, you know this person today. We've seen her. One thousand percent. We know several of them. So initially Elizabeth wrote letters to newspapers and spoke up in local meetings. But she found little purchase for her ideas until she befriended Iris McCord. Iris is a teacher at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Now, in BI, as it is also known as a private evangelical college that had been founded by a wealthy businessman turned evangelist named Dwight Moody in 1886. Moody seems to actually mostly been an okay guy. He was a decided with a union during the Civil War, which you know, so he gets some ups there. His whole big thing was that in the wake of the Civil War, he decided that like, Evangelical Christianity needed to train what he'd called gap men, right? These were men who would stand between the lady and the ministers. So people who aren't like just normal civilians, but they aren't like professional men of faith either, who are trained to do like city mission work who can like go and reach people in the cities and stuff. So that's Moody's idea and that's where the Bible college comes from, right? And it's important, you know, MBI starts as a college before Christianity is political in the United States. That's not entirely accurate. There are left and right wing politicians who use Christianity, but no one would say Christianity is definitely a more left wing or a right wing thing. Okay. This area, you couldn't clearly say that yet. The religious right is not a thing in this point in time, really. That's a more modern thing. Right, but there are religious conservatives and religious hardliners, right, who are conservative. And Iris is one of them and so is Elizabeth Dilling. And the fact that Iris taught there and loved Dilling's reactionary rants says something about where many of Moody's staff sat politically, even in those days. So Iris used her connections to get Elizabeth invited to speak at numerous local churches about the communist threat to the American way of life. And this helps put Elizabeth's ideas in front of a bunch of different women, some of whom are pretty influential, who have like spots in the DAR, you know, and these other groups, the daughters of the American Revolution and the like. And so she for the next couple of years, she starts making an okay side living, scaring her rich friends, right? And she becomes, she's really, she's actually really good at public speaking. She's got the gift of like entertaining and capturing an audience. She's an electrifying speaker in person. She's able to get a lot of these people to be just as scared and crazy about communism as she is. And her success earns her enough attention that she begins getting invitations all across the United States, not just from churches, but from civic organizations now. And the DAR starts inviting her to speak at a bunch of its local chapters. The American Legion starts inviting her to speak at different local, you know, events. And she's soon making enough money doing this to support her efforts and ensure she doesn't have to mooch off of her husband or her inheritance to have a career. I think she didn't believe good women ought to have anyway. Must be really hard for her to square those things. It's got to be hard. It's got to be filled with guilt. Okay. It's just to go from dilatant to a professional like media rabble rouser in a year or so. Yeah. It must be hard for her. So yeah, the propensity with which Elizabeth had gone from pinning her little essays to addressing crowds around the country clearly went to her head. So she decided to write a book. The red revolution, do we want it here? In this book, she railed against parlor pigs who were broad-minded, but didn't judge people based on their political tendency. These weak people, she argued, let communist agents infiltrate society and corrupt children with their ideals, right? It's these broad-minded parlor pigs who aren't like hostile enough to socialism. That's how they sneak in. That's how they get your society. Okay. Yeah. And you know who's going to destroy our society? I, Donald Trump. Maybe, but perhaps it'll be the products and services that support this podcast. We can all hope. We can all hope, you know? That's my dream. Hope. Fingers crossed. Oh my god, Lexi. I'm Lexi Iwano, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not gonna get any worse than fighting. That is wild. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business, and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships. relationships, beauty, getting older and a little wiser. - We're best friends, but we don't always agree. - Because you told us how accommodating you are. - Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Lier. - Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. - Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. - Angel Jaretana. - Jeremy Colhane, Cash McDonald. - And we're the hosts of the artists on artists on artists podcast. - The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. - Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. - What I try to do is foe journal. I don't know, I think I sort of foe journaling. - Yeah, it's reading, it's called reading. - So you're, so we don't like to use that word anymore. - Okay. - A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. - Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton Classic? - No. - I've been dying too. - I'm so sorry, I'm seeing a reading of Sadako in the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audrement Donald at the Wonderland Bookstore, 14. - That's crazy, I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark Thirty. - No way. - We'll have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Catrol is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. - A panel of Eurovision participants. - Yeah, he winks on Halloween. - I hear you'll get the elbows here. The eyelashes hate each other. - You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the pope gets up to wink on Halloween. - Listen to artists on artists on artists. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts, the True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. - For each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debris, Lamon Morris, and Nicole Byer. - What? - And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s, all the way up to today. - If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ Scam Goddess ♪ - By age, a rabbit or so, at least 70% have a phone. - Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy and this is therapy for black girls. - So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all this ain't done. - We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. - There's belonging, you could think of belonging as, I can be myself and I can still be accepted, and then they're fitting in. Spitting in says, I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. - Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists, cure gains on black fatherhood, and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. - You don't have more shorts, so you can't do flips. You have one to dress you up across your legs. - That's the range of this run. From screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home. - We have to get off our device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as you're adult in the life to miss out on. - This has been our surviving middle school run. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to therapy for black girls on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. (upbeat music) - So we're back. The daughters of the American Revolution in particular, love to work. And if you're not an American or you just don't know, the D.A. Air is like one of the oldest groups of like rich ladies in America, rich white ladies. - Okay, if you've got an American, you just have to watch Gilmore Girls. - More girls. That's exactly what I was going to say. - Gilmore Girls. Every time you write, - Huge, huge plot more girls. Emily Gilmore is a daughter of the American Revolution. - It means your relatives date back as far as they can in the history of the United States, while not being like indigenous obviously. Remember, they're that fantastic episode of Gilmore Girls Katie where it's Rory's 21st birthday and she's become friends with all of her grandmother's friends from the D.A.R. And Luke goes up to them and they keep saying, "Oh, we know Rory's from the D.A.R." And it goes, "What's the D.A.R?" And they all laugh in his face. - I remember. - It's great, it's great. - It's great. - And for the listeners that also get that, you're really enjoying the story. If you're Robert and I have no idea what you're talking, what I'm talking about, you seem very baffled and confused. - I didn't watch the Gilmore Girls, but I, you should also, yeah, I don't think I will, but I will talk more about the D.A.R. - Robert, you will love it. It was written for you. Okay. - I don't think that's accurate. So the D.A.R, in particular, loved Elizabeth's work and they purchased 10,000 copies of the red revolution do we want it here and distribute it to their local chapters. Elizabeth became a major name in the world of reactionary agitation. And she became increasingly well known among blue bloods like the ladies of the D.A.R. This was a scene she considered herself basically a part of because these are the ladies she wants to be friends with. She really wants to be a D.A.R. lady, but her family, again, they're pretty recent immigrants. I think on both sides, they can't be-- - They got a killer that they came so recently. - It's death, it's death to her. She hates it. - She'll never be a D.A.R. - Never join. She'll never be that good. They'll never gonna like you. Your family hasn't been here that long. There's snooty assholes who don't have souls. Like they're dead already. - But I'm gonna guess that that doesn't radicalize her to have empathy with people that have less than her. - She just desperately wants these rich ladies who are even richer than her to like her, right? 'Cause she doesn't have any famous enough ancestors. For a time, getting asked to speak at D.A.R. events and having them reprint her works seemed like it was at least her getting her foot in the door but Liz is always gonna be an outsider to this crowd. However, she's now an outsider who's making a full-time living trying to scare people about communists. She started telling anyone who would listen. That her cause kept her working until midnight, seven days a week. She's always talking about how hard she works. So she's never, she's a little bit Alex Jones there where she's constantly lying about. I'm up to my neck and stacks of papers, documents that prove this extent of the communist menace. I never rest, right? And although with her in, she might be telling the truth 'cause I do think she's like a compulsive workaholic. Or at least obsessed with this. Looking for the right word. Just feeling like she has to do this. Yeah, she's completely empty as a person. There's nothing else to her besides this. She's given up. I would call it that she also was bored when she became caught up in this. She was bored of empty when she found this. And this is the only thing that's ever made her feel full. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's healthy. So she starts preparing for an even more influential book that she wants to publish. And I'm gonna quote from Amy Dyes, thesis again here. Dilling began collecting over 100 file cards. Each note card contained the name of a person with pro-communist affiliations. These file cards sparked her to purchase a large library of books about politics, history, law, philosophy, Jews, communism, organized labor, economics, revolution, and foreign policy. Hey, Liz, I get why you're interested in like books of history and law and about like organized labor and, why are Jews? Hey, Liz. Wait, why are they in there? Why are they? Hey, Liz. (laughing) We know. Can I explain that a little bit more? We know why Jews are in there. I think we do. We do, we know why. This also does. Yeah, yeah. Hmm. Okay, I googled her and I saw an image that I won't reference right now because I want to see where this is going. Oh, fun. I'm interested in what that image is. So Liz also did a lot of gum shoe work in full trading local communist organizations in Chicago by convincing them she wanted to join and asking for exclusive inside information. Now, in reality, she was just getting essays and notices about upcoming meetings, but she always treated this as if she was receiving a highly dangerous military intel because that makes her sound cooler. Her inspiration and a lot of this work was a guy named Harry Young who was the director of the American Vigilant Federation. Now, there's not a lot that remains about Harry, but I found an entry for him on fashion media, which describes a Vigilant Intelligence Federation as quote, "an attempt to track radicalism among labor union members. After three days, decades of monitoring radicals and their organizations in America, it has been said his files exceeded a million names." So yeah, it's keeping track of anyone who's in the labor movement, right? He's keeping a death list ready, just in case anyone wants to go kill these people. Young is also one of the first Americans to distribute the protocols of the learned elders of Zion in the United States. And it said that he received his copy from three white Russians fleeing their failed counter-revolution. So he is one of the first people to spread anti-Semitic propaganda in an organized way in the United States. That's her direct inspiration. Perfect. Yeah, Young is the guy who turns the protocols into a movie for the first time, which helps to create a groundbreaking work of anti-Semitic propaganda that's referenced by Nazis to this day. Elizabeth knew this about him when they met. In fact, it's why she was excited to work with Young. As Amy Dye writes, Young agreed to help Dylan by letting her look at any of his files that she deemed important to fight the communist threat. Later, both Young's films and research came into the hands of the federal government. The Department of Justice deemed Young's work as un-American as it featured several racial prejudices that offend most American citizens. So that's her like model. That's the guy that she loves. - Yeah. - Yeah, okay. Good work, Liz. - Good judgment, Liz. Yeah, you have great judgment in people. We can certainly say that about you. In the early 1930s, Dylan also helped to found an organization, the Paul Revere's, which she claimed was a patriotic organization to uphold Americanism in opposition to all other isms, such as socialism and communism. Interesting fascism isn't spelled out there. She lists several isms, not fascism. - No, it's not. - She conveniently forgot that isms. - Yeah, I'm sure if you press her, she said, "Oh yeah, that too, of course," but she didn't want to bring it up unless you did. Now, the only restriction, the Paul Revere's head for new members, you want to guess the only kind of person who couldn't join her organization, the Paul Revere's, of patriotic Americans, what kind of person would she exclude, do you think? - Jews? - Black people. - Yeah, it's Jews. No, it's actually not like, I think black people weren't allowed actually, but that didn't know that they were welcomed. But they weren't explicitly banned, the way Jewish people were. Although we have to assume they weren't welcomed, right? - I do want to high-absolutely assume that. - Yeah, but I can also see them only stating out right that Jews are not allowed. In part, because they maybe just wouldn't have assumed any black people would ever try to join. They may have just been like, really? - Yeah. - Like, you might have been able to join the Paul Revere's as a black person is sort of like an air-bud situation. It was like, well, no one put this in the rules. We clearly don't even consider that they are people. - We cannot conceive of this as a possibility. - Yeah, yeah. - Two races to have a race-based entry requirement. So in 1934, Liz published what would have become her most influential book, The Red Network. A Who's Who in Handbook of Radicalism for Patriots? This beautiful book, which you'll be seeing on your screen now, it's gorgeous, red cover, embossed, nice, very basic font, but effective. The Red Network, A Who's Who in Handbook of Radicalism for Patriots? This collected all of Elizabeth Research, all of these note cards about these individual people that she's declared communists. This is like almost part of it's like a phone book of leftist radicals. Again, it's kind of a kill list, right? - Like McCarthyism, pre-McCartheism, McCarthyism. - You've anticipated one of this book's biggest events. - Did I anticipate? - Yes. - Taylor Jo loves this fucking book. This will make it into McCarthy hearings as it happens. Yeah, good stuff. So we'll be hearing a lot more from this book and hearing a lot more from it about Liz, but that's all for part one. Katie, you got any plug-ables to plug at the end here? Yeah. - Oh sure, I got plug-ables to plug. You can find me over at some more news with Cody Johnston. We got some more news. We've got even more news, both on the same channel. Got a Patreon. - Excellent. All right, everybody, check their Patreon out, check their channel out, and check us out in like a day or so when we return with the rest of the story about Elizabeth Dilley. - Yeah. - I'll be in this spot for the next two days. - Right. - Perfect, beautiful. - Impatiently. - Glorious. - Behind the bastards is a production of CoolZone Media. For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website CoolZoneMedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel. YouTube.com/@BehindTheBastards. - We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking. I'm Lexi Yuanil, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. - And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. - I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. - The True Crime Comedy Podcast, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. - What? - Scam Goddess. - I hear you get the elbows here. The eyelashes hit each other. - Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists. Every Thursday on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Self-Cast September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask, why am I like this? I'm Gemma Spek, host of the Psychology of your 20s podcast. And this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming from setting boundaries and navigating friendships, to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment. - Guaranteed Human.