Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys

- I'm not showing up all for my kids. Because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief. - There's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden in like children are or chains. I felt that in the past. This is probably gonna get cut. But when I was seeing that pros and cons, it's getting hairy. - This is unhinged. Found out I was pregnant, my business was failing, and I was like, "Date, this is just not all "what I pictured my life to be like." It'd take a long time for newlyweds to catch up. - You'll never catch up, huh? (all laughing) - Always here to share the hope. - And the heart with heart and humor. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to always here with Abby and Abby. - Is that how we're gonna do it? - I like that, okay. I feel like this big has been crazy with the launch and the announcement and everything. - I know, it's big week. I'm really excited about it. And we just wanna say thank you also, so much for all the excitement about it. You guys spoke, we listened, and it's been so fun. I literally think about this all the time. I'm like the fact that we get to call this working, but it's just hanging out with your sisters. - I know. - And just having fun, like what a blessing this is. - I saw a comment that said that. They're like, "How fun is it that you guys get to just work "and spend time together?" I'm like, "That's so true." It's such a job matter. - That's how I feel. (all laughing) - I feel like the buildup to the announcement in the first episode was so much work, like anticipation, figuring everything out. Like we were super-intentional and serious about things. And I felt this pressure and like nerves. And now that then we announced it and then doing the first episode, I was like, "Okay." So hopefully it just feels like, oh, like this breath has been released. - I'm ready to get into a rhythm with it. - Same. - And also just connect with our community more. Like right now it just feels like this ambiguous thing, but now as we start to build the community and people are listening to it, it just makes it so much more rewarding and fun. - Totally. - I was logged into the always-here email and I've been getting the emails about all the voicemails coming through. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, there's so many "that coming through." - Really? - Yay! - I'm excited. - I'm excited too. Does that go to your phone, Addy? - No, I just have it on my email. - Oh, okay, I was gonna say. - I have it. Sorry, but it goes straight to voicemail so they don't have to wait through the tones of it and then they get you little jingles. - Smart. - Really quick, I wanted to hop in here to just say we produced this podcast for free to you guys. So I think it would just be a very kind gesture. If you took the time right now, five seconds to just hit follow, subscribe, heart, like it, basically just show whatever platform you're on that you enjoy or show and that you intend to come back. We would really, really appreciate that. And yeah, here's your five seconds. One, two, three, four, five. Okay, that's all, thank you so, so much. We really, really appreciate it and thank you in advance. Let's get back to the show. Yeah, I think we like to start off every episode a little bit like just kind of saying, what this is for, but our motto is to share the hope in the heart with heart and humor. And yeah, it'd be fun to share like a little bit of hope and a little bit of something that isn't as fun. Maybe that we're dealing with in life. And so I have a hope, which I kind of feel bad saying actually. I had two little versions of me on my shoulder when I was thinking of mine this morning. I was like, it's not nice because I have two sister-in-law's with little babies that probably aren't sleeping. But oh, no, she's sleeping like a princess. How was that? I slept in a season where I'm sleeping really good. And it's, I feel guilty saying that guys. I mean, because there's a hope to your future. I hope that you're sleeping well for our sake. We hope that. We can't, we're not sleeping so. We're not sleeping great. That was actually my heart. Oh, really, I'm so sorry. We're on the same wavelength. I hate that. I think the reason this feels so rewarding, though, is like knowing where I've been, where I've been. And it's funny just because like the nature of my children, but it's like my oldest one is always the one that's going to be. And he's surely in our room sleeping with us. But at least we're sleeping. I just hear the door creak at like, because we have his lights set to turn a different color. So he was like, several like cues that happened in his room. But it turns blue after 11.30. So we can have like alone time and don't have to go to bed. It's like seven o'clock when he goes to bed. But usually he wakes up somewhere around one o'clock. And I just hear a little, our door squeak. He doesn't even say anything. He just scampers into his little mattress on the ground. And it goes right back to sleep. But because he's with us, he sleeps so late. Because he's just like, I'm just in mom and dad's room. Sometimes he's a wig, just like laying there. And then Oggy is sleeping in because Griffin's not waking him up. Wow. So Griffin woke up at 9.20. What's Saturday? Did you think he, were you like, are you okay? I didn't think he was in there anymore. I thought Matt had gotten up with him. And I was just like, oh, what are you doing? He was asleep. I was like, oh, I, I, I'll just lay there awake going. So I feel bad saying that. But maybe you guys can look to your future. Yeah, no, I mean, I feel like with the newborn stage, it changes so often. They didn't get that on it. Yeah, I'm like, I don't get that sad about it. Because at this point, Vivian's three months, she's trying to roll. And so the sleep has been really bad. They sleep so much better when they can get on their bellies. Yes, they do. Brielle, when she gets on her belly, she cries. She's like, really? Get me back over. She sleeps on her side, though. Oh, kind of weird. That's cute. No, it's cute. Yeah, so I feel like when they go through those transition or milestone transitions, you just don't sleep very well. So I know it's, I know it's going to be short. Three, four, and five. Those months are like, yeah, pretty tricky. Yeah, we'll get through it. But that was my hard was that the sleep last couple of days hasn't been the best. And I feel like this postpartum, I'm coming out of a lot of the like hard things and it's been feeling like good, but the brain fog has settled in. And I just cannot, like during the day, it's not that bad. But in the evenings, when I start to get tired, my thoughts do not form. And I cannot think of words. And I look at Caleb and I'm like, what is that thing that I'm trying? And I'll like explain it. And he'll have to tell me what I'm trying to say. So that has been a little, that's just been really hard. That's frustrating. Heavy this week. And maybe just because it's been such a busy week with holidays and like the new year and everything, but yeah, this is just my brain is not working. That's tough. Yeah, but we'll get, you know, we'll get through it. It's just a short. It's short to say it's hard. My hard was not that serious, but I just genuinely hate the month of January. And now we're in it, I'm like, I don't know what it is. I just have a really hard time like transitioning out of the month of December, I guess. Like December, so I'm someone that like loves things boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and like all exciting. And then January always feels like we gotta make our own fun. And sometimes kind of like, I just feel like my motivations low, my productivity is low. I feel like every single night recently, I've just been like, what did I really get done today? And I'm just like down on myself at the end of the night, every single night. And I'm like, I don't even, like I want to do more, but I actually can't get myself to like do more. Isn't that called the post-holiday blues or something? Because you're, you're so expended. Maybe from the holidays and then you get into the January and you're just exhausted. That's how I feel. And I want to be one of those people that like, kick starts the year, like, discipline, blah, blah. And I'm like, I don't want to. And I think part of it is that I'm not in any kind of routine, like I haven't been going to the gym. And I did go to the gym today and I'm like, I feel like I got a little bit like back into me, but just in general, I need to just suck it up. And just like try to find fun things to do in January. I'm planning a shower for Vow. Oh my God. And so that's how you kind of getting me excited. I'm like, that's a fun thing to do when we need them. Can I help you? Yeah, okay, yeah. It's going to be Galentine's theme. A little sweetheart is on the way. I was going to say we should call it Valentine's, but that's her-- That's actually a great idea. Oh, thank you. But that's too hard. It's my heart. It's also cute. Valentine's Day. That's a cute theme. I got it from Ventures, I did not. I'm not creative in that way, like with wordplay stuff. Yeah, no. How many are there? I'll leave it to the Pinterest people. Fine. OK, I want to help you with that. OK, what's crazy? Wow. Wait, wait. What's your hope? My hope? Oh, yeah, Abby gosh. Well, let's think about this. I really thought of my heart. It's been not hard. Well, my brain just doesn't working. We've had so many friends come in town, which has been fun. And my parents are back too. They do the snow bird thing, which is so fun. Yeah, and it's sweet. I love anytime my parents or my parents or kids' parents come in, because CJ loves his grandparents so much. And it's so helpful when they're in town, too. That's definitely been a highlight. That's good. Yeah, that's my hope. OK, we should move on to-- wow. That's crazy. Well, let's call out as crazy, like crazy. This has become the new TikTok viral sensation. And I am currently obsessed. I have genuinely no clue. I know. We should try it after the episode. We should. We'll make a video of us trying. That's a good idea. I don't know what to say. OK, this TikTok girl, her name's Courtney Cook. She is the cutest gal ever. She looks like a who, which she says is a compliment. Not without her nose. Like, she just has the sweetest, cutest little-- she's just so cute. OK. Anyway, she got famous on TikTok. I think she's grown over a million followers within the last month that I've watched. She's over two million followers. And she does the craziest lunches and meals of all time. But they're not crazy to her. But I stopped on her videos the first time. It's called the plowman's lunch. She teaches British history. Pretty sure. And a plowman's lunch is basically like a really random charcuterie board of stuff, like raw vegetables and random chunks of cheeses, and breads, and boiled potatoes, weird onions. and she'll just eat them. I'm like really not that weird, onions. - And I would like watch her videos. And I'm like, this is the most disgusting, bizarre combinations of food. And like the weirdest way to eat these foods, but I want to do it. And her responses to them are just, it's so amazing. - It's like the lady who did the chicken sausage in the cottage cheese and mustard. - I don't know, I didn't see that. - Okay. - But maybe if that was like, what do you know? - No, but I just put the video on your iPad so you can take a look at it. - What? - I'm really crazy as her sweet potato trend, where she roasts her sweet potato and she stuffs cheese inside of it. And then just eats it like, I don't know if it's hot dog. I don't know. So crazy. - What is this cheese? - Definitely. - Buttercosse cheese. - What does she do for work? - She's a teacher. - Oh, cute. - So she has a whole series of teachers lunches. - Okay. - I'm not mad. - My girl. - So cute. - No, so gross. - That's how she treated like this last night. - Hmm, I love that she loves this. - She is such an endearing person to watch. - That is the lunch that has gone so viral. - Really? - People love to watch her eat this and everyone's trying this concoction of sweet potato. - Really? - And do people like it? - They love it. - That's why I want to try it. - I want to try it. We should do it for a video. - It would be super hot. - Okay, let's try it. - It's so, and there's the way that she eats things. I've been inspired to eat raw vegetables. I'm like, oh, I can just eat a bell pepper like an apple, sure. I did it. - You did it? - Yeah. - But yeah. No, I did slice it. I didn't eat it like an apple. - That's how she eats it? - She just eats the most random raw vegetables. Like, she'll take green onions. I took a video of it. - Green onions. - Green onions. - Green onions. - Green onions. - It was crazy. - There was a video, Val, our friend Val, we're talking about her again. - She knows what her two are. - Yes, I brought her up. And she was like me and her husband, or not me. Her and her husband were watching her videos at night before bed. And there was a video of her eating the dumplings at 7 a.m. She loves soup dumplings. She puts them in these onion cups and puts soup dumplings in them and then tops them with mayo and soy sauce and seeds and all kinds of stuff. And then she puts the whole onion cup in her mouth and she just goes, mm. Oh yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh, I want to eat that. Never have I wanted to eat a raw onion cup in my life. - This is so funny to me. This is like, I love I'm fascinated by what people eat. But I think this is fascinating. This became a trend. - Oh, she's absolutely bloomed. - Bloomed. - She's not gonna teach her anymore. - No, how come her food looks so good? I'm looking at her paid. - It does. - It does sound good. - I'm eating plain green onions. - I'm trying to look for that video. - A lot of British food. So it's a lot of stuff that I've never heard of. It's just so random. But she's just such bizarre combinations that I want to try. - Gosh, you guys got me sold. - And the comments are always hilarious. They're like, yeah, this is what I eat when I'm trying to clean out my fridge. - Yeah. - It's left over. - She said I just know that no food is wasted in your household. - Really? Well, that's funny. - I know. - She is the, I'm always like, oh, gotta stop. My TV shows on. That's how I feel. - Really? - Yeah. - That's fun. - Yeah. - That's wholesome. - That's her wow, that's crazy. - That is crazy. - 'Cause what she eats is truly crazy. - It's truly crazy. - The next segment I thought we could talk about, this is, like, I feel like last episode we talked about goals. It was kind of fun and tiffy. But this episode, Caleb showed me the Kelsey Bellarini song, "I Sit In Parks." And I have not cried listening to a song just sent to maybe I was a little child. This song is so beautiful. And I feel like it's just such a good conversation for us to have. Yeah, you listen to the song. - Yeah, you sent it to me and you were like, I haven't cried since listening to this song. I was like, I'm scared. My immediate reaction was like, I'm not gonna listen to it. 'Cause if you cry, then it's gonna make me cry. But I listened to it and it didn't make me cry. But it is like, I was just blown away by her. What's the word I'm gonna say? I was gonna say humility. - Like vulnerability. - Yeah, vulnerability in this, like, in writing a song like this, especially from like some, okay. So she made her career huge. Basically, is this true from her divorce album? - That was when I first knew her. So I think that's when she first became like more, she went on call her daddy. And I think that really like pushed her career. - Well, was the call her daddy recently? - No, she went on a long time ago. - Oh, when they got her divorce. - Oh, okay. - So since that was like, her divorce was such a big part of like her, like rising to fame. I think this song comes as like, it's even more impactful then. Because, okay, so should you play the song? Or do you wanna? - Yeah, I don't think we can play the song. - Yeah, I can't play it. I do wanna listen to it again, just to have like the fresh thoughts from it. But let's just play it. We can keep talking about it. Don't cry right now. I literally, I listened to it this morning again, and I almost cried again. Oh my gosh. I know, I'm never touched like that. I am gosh. (upbeat music) - I feel like, but the first time I heard it, the first time I heard it, I was like dang, I feel so sad and grateful at the same time. - Mm-hmm. - That is such an honest and cute, it's gonna be great. (laughing) - And maybe it's like being almost 30 and having two kids. It's like, man, I just feel grateful. I think it just put in a perspective like dang. These are the years. - Mm-hmm. - I have two kids and I take them to the park with Kayla. But it just feels like this really sweet time of my life. And I was like, well, I'm very grateful for that. I'm also sad, these years are short with the little kids. But also, I felt very sad that I do feel like there's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden. And you can't live this amazing life and children are chains. And she's like, the line about do they look at me and want my freedom as much as I want to be a mother? And I'm like, dang, I felt that in the past. Like, Kayla, but let me get it together for a second. Like when we found out that we were pregnant with CJ my oldest, that was a very much a surprise. I was 26 when I got pregnant. I had started a business that I had rained for five years with him that Caleb had come on and joined. And at the time that I got pregnant, like the business was failing. I had all these big goals and dreams. I was like, I'm gonna be a business woman, all this stuff. So I had like found out I was pregnant. My business was failing and I was like, dang, this is just not all what I pictured in my life to be like. And I felt scared, I felt. Yeah, I just felt like a lot of these things. And now I look back and I'm like, dang, I'm so glad. I thought we were able to start our family when we did. Yeah, I just, I felt all those emotions. Yeah, when I heard that. Yeah. I think the thing that like, I respect the most in her writing this song is that she, first of all, I think in today's like culture it's very like frowned upon if someone changes their mind on things. I don't really understand why that is or if other people feel that way. But if people like, you have a career, it's like, yeah, we all like change our minds or we evolve or we wish we would have done things differently. I feel like regret is also something that is like, kind of like you're not supposed to have regrets, which obviously like you can't let your regrets like chain you back or hold you down. But I think it's really admirable that she's willing to just like publicly be like, yeah, I, I'm wondering if I made the right decision or like everyone can look at me and like, envy where I'm at right now. But do they know that I'm envying them back? And I think that takes so much bravery. And it's also I think the other thing that stood out to me most in listening to this song is that her acknowledging that like her decision had a cost because I feel like a lot of the times this maybe is an American thing probably where it's like, you can have it all, you can be at all, you can do it all. And I feel like this messaging is, I hear it more geared towards like mom, it's like, you can do it all, you can have it all, you can have the career, you can be the best mom, you can do all these things. And I also think that women have a unique pressure to like, I feel like just naturally, I don't know if everyone feels this way, but like there's always this like quiet voice, it's like you're not enough, you're not doing enough, you're not, you know, meeting the standards that you need to do, like there's more you can do and comparison, all this stuff. And so her acknowledging like every decision has a cost is refreshing. I told you when you started talking, when you sent that song to me, it reminded me of Danny Austin, who's like another creator and also like mega business owner. Her admitting that she like, in her own words, she said something about like how she blew up her life, like trying to have it all. And for me, as a listener hearing that, it felt like a deep sigh of relief because it's just not true that you can have it all. And it doesn't mean that one decision is right and one decision is wrong. It doesn't mean that career is wrong and motherhood immediately is right or vice versa. Like it just means that there's a cost and you have to kind of weigh those constantly. I feel like that's what motherhood is with like we're both working moms. And I feel like I'm always kind of on this tutor taught of like how do we balance that? And like what in which like what cost is too great, we need to make adjustments and then this benefit, I'm not seeing it here. So then we got to make adjustments the other way. I don't know if that makes sense. - No, it makes a lot of sense. - Yeah, I would agree. It's so, the balance is hard. And I feel like I was totally bought that live. Like, oh I can have it all as a kid. And I feel like I reach for that for a really long time. And I don't know. I think I get sad hearing that video because I think that there is that narrative that like women think, oh my life, we've talked about this before, but my life is gonna stop when I have kids. - And I don't think that that's true at all. You know, it looks different, and like you're saying, we have to adjust things around, but I don't know. It's like, man, my life has started when I had kids. And even with work, being a mom is maybe more efficient. It's made me work harder. It's made me want to balance my time better. Like, I feel like all around having kids, having a job, like a healthy married, all these things, like, has forced me to become a better, well-rounded woman, and I'm so grateful for that. And yeah, it's not like, oh, I can go be this, I don't know, it's so hard. I don't know what I'm trying to say. - No, I think it makes sense. And also hearing from your perspective too, like, you were career driven at one point. And you had these high aspirations in the career area, and then you still do. But it's like, I almost feel like there's maybe two different people listening to this podcast 'cause for me, I actually never had career ambitions. Like, I did before I got married, and then I feel like when I got married, I was just like, well, when are we having kids? 'Cause then I, like, can't. I felt like you said, I felt like I couldn't start my life until I had kids, 'cause that was kind of my tunnel vision. Like, I was like, I gotta have kids, gotta have kids. It's like, I don't know, I literally just made that way. Like, literally in high school, I remember just being like, whose babies can I watch? Like, all the time, and I just felt like I couldn't get, like, I feel like that time, three years of after-game married, I was just like, which isn't a good place to be either. Like, I feel like there's a good thing to be said about contentment, and also just like, yeah, enjoying early marriage and not rushing into all that stuff, but like, because I didn't have huge career ambitions, I feel like, it's like women have to decide, right? Like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna be a mom, you're gonna be a working lady. Like, and it's like, oh gosh, totally. That's a tough place to be, and then I feel like a lot of women too, like, they go into the career field, and they're like really excited and passionate about it. They get pregnant, have a baby, and they're like, actually don't care about any of that anymore. And so, like, there's that too. - Totally. - There's so many different aspects of it, but on the angle of like being a working mom, I thought, like, I used to, something Sadie Robertson actually, once totally changed this around for me, but I used to feel every time I like, how to do something for work and be away from the kids. I would like, literally try to condense everything jam-packed, which I already condense at the part-time, but like, I would literally like be like, okay, maybe, what can I get done in one hour? Like, and try to get everything done, and then I would just be super stressed the whole time, and like, try to never be away, and like, I would felt really guilty. Like, my default is kind of like going towards guilt, usually I'm like, I'm not doing good enough mom, not doing enough for them. And something she said is like, I'm gonna butcher it, so I'm not even gonna try to quote it, but something about like taking pride in what you do for work can give your kids confidence too. And how like, that can also serve them. So now, when I talk about it, I'm very intentional. I'm like, I'm gonna go work, and you're gonna do fun stuff, like, with grandma, like, things like that. And then now they talk to me about it. They're like, oh, you're gonna go to work, and I'm gonna play with Honey, or I'm gonna go like, do this activity. I'm like, yeah, and I think it's really cool that my kids also can see me as their mom, having this role in providing for the family, and like, also, like, we talk about the purpose of work, and like, working hard too. And I feel like it's good that they see their mom having this role as well, and not that it's only in the career realm, but also, like, within the house. But I don't know, it's helped me just, like, be more intentional with my work and my role as a mom, and like, how I talk about it more, because I felt, like, really weird, like, I had to, like, be vague about it. Like, I'll be right back. Like, now I'm just like, oh, I'm gonna go work. And I don't know. I just feel like, for some reason, that didn't click for me in the beginning. - Totally. I get why, like, there's so many, I get why there's so many opinions across the board of this, and I understand why women want to wait. Especially, like, if you go to school, you go to higher education. You spend all this time and money, and you go into the career field, and it's like, I don't want to just blow all that away, 'cause I think people do probably assume that, like, once they have kids, they won't want to work anymore, and that will shift in their life. And I understand that is, like, a really hard thing for women to, like, tussle with, and, like, make that decision on. But then, yeah, there's also the flip side of the coin, where, like, we have these jobs, where we can work from home, which is nice, and, like, we can kind of do our hours, how we need to, like, focus on our family the most. But it is hard when these early years. Like, these are the, what do they say? Like, your kids are most impressionable from one to three, and it's when you have the most influence on their life, or one to five. So it's like, you want to give them as much as you can, in these first three to five years. So I get why that's hard, or women want to wait, where they're like, okay, I've done the career thing, and I want to do it. But then I feel this, like, sadness for a lot of women that do wait, and then there are, like, complications, or, you know, different things. And it's like, you never want to say that, in a way that's going to fear longer women, until, like, wanting to have kids earlier, or whatever. - Yeah, yeah. - It's just, like, a reality of things sometimes. And I just feel like I know a lot of women that have pushed off, starting a family, and, like, could have the opportunity to make it work well. And sometimes I just wonder, I'm like, dang, are they going to be sad about that decision later? Which, it's okay, you know? But I just feel like we have been sold this slide, like, oh, just wait, just wait, just wait, just wait. And, like, I feel like I've thought that. Like, I always thought I'd wait to, like, 30s to have kids. And, like, do the career thing for a long time. I just feel so grateful that that wasn't the case, 'cause I feel like I have been able to, fortunately, figure out a way to do both, like, have work, and be a mom. And I feel like it's just, it's been the greatest gift upon my life. Yeah, I don't know. I just feel sad for women, that it is, like, a hard choice. - Yeah. - It's super hard. - Well, and I think on the flip side of it too, is I think, like, people waiting to have kids, people are also waiting to get married, which we obviously didn't. And I, like, have just been, that also started the conversation of, like, young marriage, like, where it was, like, okay, 'cause also she's not married anymore. And, like, when she says, like, "God damn it, he loves her." I feel like there's, like, this, like, longing to, like, what was the quote, where were some podcasts that Matt and I always talk about, where someone's, like, marriage is, like, choosing someone to be a witness to your life. And, and we, I just, like, think about that a lot. I'm like, that's, how do I say this? - It would just, it'd be hard for you to imagine. - It'd be hard for me to imagine, like, going through life without someone intimately knowing everything that's happening, my thoughts, like, what I'm going on about my day. Gosh, like, what my one-stop-shake order is. Like, it's, like, someone that just, like, knows you so intimately, like, one person, that, like, that would probably feel, I could imagine that, where that could feel lonely, where it's, like, it's not even the fact that he, like, he, like, this family she's looking at, that he loves her, but that, like, he knows her in that they're, like, in each other's lives. I don't know. And so, I don't know where I'm going with this, but just thinking about, like, life, how it looks so differently, depending on when you enter into marriage, because, I mean, we're very, I got married at 20, which is crazy now, saying that. But, just thinking about how, Matt and I were actually just talking about this, I was like, Matt, I literally know you so well. I was like, I literally remember when you were a kid, and I saw you become a man, and you saw me go from, like, become a woman, and we have, like, this insane library of memories together that, like, I can't imagine, even now, at 27, how old am I? I don't know. It's actually real. I stopped aging at 25 in my head. I stopped aging at 23, which is much too young to start aging. Every time I'm like, well, I'm 25, and I'm like, nope. I know. I can tell the people, I'm young 20s, and I'm like, I have literally 29. And that's the oldest 20 you could possibly be. The oldest 20. You're the oldest 20. But I was like, the fact that, like, we have some friends that are single and they're dating right now. Like, gosh, they have to fill them in on, like, you also can't really, that's, there's something so unique about, like, having that type of history by that age that it's, like, it's really special. Totally. So that's not to say one's right, or one's wrong. Like, I feel like this is just something that it's, like, unique about young marriage. It's like, gosh, we literally have so much history, yeah. Like, by the age of 27, which is wild. I guess what we're, I imagine who we're speaking to right now are those people that are, like, they've been dating for five years, they know they're going to get married, but they've put the brakes on. I'm like, just get married. Start your life, like, get married, have kids. Like, you can make it work. Like, I feel like that's my charge. And I feel like that's, there's obviously a million perspectives on this discussion. And they're not all, like, there's no right or wrong. But like, that's my point of view. I'm like, dang, just do it because it's so fun to, like, live your life with someone. It's so fun to have kids. It's just, just special, I don't know. It's just such a special-- It's really rewarding. It's so rewarding. And, like, obviously, people look at marriage and kids as, like, such a sacrifice because it is. Totally. But making those sacrifices also has, like, a way of, like, refining you as a person where it's, like-- I don't know. It has completely changed how I view, like, honestly, everything in line, both of those things. And it's just a practice every single day in selflessness. And I think that's the thing that we have to counteract the most as humans. I feel like our nature is, like, very selfish, which, kind of, have to be-- gosh, there's probably some evolutionary reason to be like you had me selfish of your pack. But anyway, like, just-- it is a practice every single day in, like, selflessness that is really good. And also, it's healthy, too, like, I don't know. I respect Kelsey in this song. I'm, like, I'm sure she made that decision to like get divorced to not. have kids because she wanted to pursue being selfish for a little bit and her dream and like she knew it be a cost like she wouldn't be able to have a child important to a child. No, it makes sense. Like that was the cost. Yeah, that was her cost. She was like, "Wait it." And she was like, "Yeah. This isn't what I want." Yeah. Totally. And well, that's what she thought. And actually, I noticed in this that listening, that song again, she literally says, "What I want." She, it's like she changed, like she just fully changed her mind. She said that's what she wants. Totally. Which is interesting. Do we know what her ex has been up to? Um, he's dating a new person now, and she was just dating Chase Stokes and they recently broke up. Thank you. From the guy from Outer Banks. Yeah. They did it for like two years. Oh, damn. Um, and an interesting thing is that she froze her eggs. So she went there when she was married to her ex-husband. Oh. So I think she was always planning to have kids a little later, or maybe he didn't know. I don't know that when they were planning on having kids, but she froze her eggs. So that's also interesting in relation to the song is that she has eggs when you're thinking about getting older, having those eggs, but not being ready to like get pregnant, I guess. That might be another thing people are having kids later because they know they can freeze their eggs. That's a more common thing now. Wait. Why are you. I'm dumb. Am I dumb? So wait. No, no, no. Well, you can't have kids though after you've gone through menopause, even if you've frozen your eggs. Yeah. No. But are they thinking that these eggs are healthier eggs because they're like younger eggs than when they would have them in the winter? Yeah. Well, it's like, as you get older every year, you have less eggs. So maybe if you're having trouble getting pregnant, you can use your old, your frozen eggs. Yeah. So they don't have to do an egg retrieval then and then start that. Well, you just don't. You know, you aren't women born with the amount of eggs that they always have. Like, we're born in the womb. Yes. We only have one month. But no, it's like your body has multiple, but only one gets. She froze her eggs when she turned 30. I just think that when you go through IVF, this actually brings up a bigger conversation. So we don't know anything about women's eggs. We don't think we drop multiple eggs, but. No, we don't drop multiple eggs, but like when people do IVF and they're cycle and they can extract multiple. Yes. Oh, they might have 11 this cycle and then like 50 the next. Like that are available? Is that not viable? I don't know, but. See, this is something we also need to work on. You have more when you're younger. Okay. So if you freeze them, you have a higher chances of the being successful later on. Okay. Well, that is interesting. Well, I guess. 32. She's 32. Yeah. She can still do this thing. Yeah. Totally. Do you just have to find the person that she wants to have kids? Something kill, but I talk about a lot. Because my mom and dad were much older when they had kids. My mom started. She had my older sister at 30, waited five years, had me at 35 and then had my little sister when she was almost 40. So they like really spaced it out and stuff like that. But her mother looks great. Yeah. I did not realize. My dad turned 70 this year. Wow. Uh-huh. Wait. Yeah. No. I'm sorry. He's 69 this year. He'd be really sad if I did that. But yeah, I have older parents on the older side and like kill when we're talking about this. If we want four kids and we didn't want to do four and or four and I was 31, 32, like that just really changed your timeline on things because I'm like, I don't want to be pregnant back to back to back to back. If I wouldn't have any space and time and then you think you're pregnant for nine months, then you're postpartum for a year. That's a long time. You know? And then it'd be you want to like have a little bit of an age gap to your kids. So I'd like that something that I don't know. I didn't think about before I have a kids, you know, it comes quick. It's come so fast and those years are not, you know, if you start having kids later, you're probably, I think that's why the average of kids is going down like most families should have two. They probably start later. So getting married, the average for men is 30 and women is 28. That's right. That's younger than I thought it was. That's going to be. Yeah. That's a, as of 2023. In 1960, it was at 22 for men and 20 for women. So it's changed that much. Oh my goodness. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. Wow. That's crazy. The average age for women for their first birth in 2023 was 27. Okay. That's what I gave birth. You were the average. I'm talking about you guys. I'm 19 at the culture. In 1970s, it was 21. So it's changed since then. I also think one interesting thing about you guys is you both are married to your high school. Yeah. And you know what percentage that is? It's about 2% of people get married to their high school sweetheart. Man. And so you guys both of the 2% of America, you guys are both in that situation, which is interesting. So you've dated your husband for a long time. You've been working for a while. Yeah. 12 years for Caleb and I. I feel like I had to be careful sometimes talking about these subjects because I do feel like I've been very privileged in this area. Like, I lack perspective. Yeah. I'm like, I'd definitely probably lack. Just marry them. I know. Just love them. Just love them. I'm kids early. You know. I'm like dating. You know. But I understand dating is too hard. Well okay. I mean, we can bring up the cons of dating a married young. I got some cons. I feel like I went through a little bit of an identity crisis. I feel like it hit right after we had our first kid where I was like, I just remember one morning. I was like, I like my eggs scrambled and I was like, it was like a big proclamation because we had been eating over easy eggs for like 2 years. And I was like, I like them scrambled and I was just like, and I like cheese. Like I just started to think of like all the things where I was like, man, we have just like, I have adapted and like grown around you so much and him vice versa. But where I was like, gosh, where would I be independent of you? Like what decisions would I have made? Like, and I think that it's not like, it's not like, oh gosh, the grass is greener on the other side of this. But it did come to a point where I was like, my gosh, I've literally become an adult with you. Like I formed around you. We formed around each other. Like what would I be? But in this alternate life, like what would I even be like? And so I feel like it did kind of cause like a little bit of like, what is happening? Like what do I like? Where do I look? What is happening? I don't know. And so I do think that other people that get me a young feel this way too, because I think we brought it up on a podcast one time. I think other people were like, yeah, like that's great and it's awesome. But then there are certain times where I'm just like, what would I, what would I have been like if I had been single in my 20s until I was like, at least the average of like 28? What was it 27? I can't even imagine that. I can't imagine it either. I don't know who I would be. That's what made me spiral. I don't want to think about that actually. No, but it did kind of like, I was like, like I scrambled and then it was just like so interesting. I was like, you know, and then I started to think I was like, I don't cook with cheese because I live with you. And I just started to think I was like, we live, we do this for our job. We live here. And it was like, we had agreed on all of those decisions together and like we were excited about them. But it just comes, I feel like there was a time where I just like all caught up to me. And I was like, what would I be like? Totally. And I think that that is something interesting. Yeah. A pro is that it was really easy to adjust to marriage. Yeah. Because we didn't know any. We never lived independently. You didn't have an identity. We had no money. We had no money. We had no money. And so like the financial transition, the life transition was actually really easy. Like I don't remember having any like major hiccups because I was just like, yeah. Yeah, you didn't have any like routines that you were setting or you didn't have a stable job that I was like, I need to be here for this job. Like we were just very flexible. Uh-huh. Like everything was, I was in college. Like everything was so flexible at that time. Everything was so low stakes. So I was like, say I had been with my job. And they're like wanting to transfer me to a different state. And I was like, like that would have been like a logistical problem more than anything. Sure. And then you do have to make decisions like, what's more important at this point? And so like everything was just really low stakes at that point. So that was a really easy transition. Uh-huh. Yeah. Things fun. For sure. I was going to say a similar thing. We have a very high tolerance for risk, Caleb and I do, because our whole 20s were just risky. Like we had nothing. We didn't have the careers. We didn't like stable careers. We just had no money, which is a con. I remember I was listening to a severe unplanned podcast episodes and you're talking about how disciplined we were with our money and I was like, we just had no choice. We said no choice. And so that was a con, but there are so many pros to that too where I feel like you did have a choice though. A lot of people go into serious debt. Yes. So you did have a choice. Thank you. We also did have a choice to get normal jobs and we chose not to. So we did choose to stay poor. And you're curious we used to have a clothing boutique that I started in college and then Caleb and I ran that together and that was five years. I kind of touched on that earlier. And then we had a really bad like season where we lost all the money and yeah, it was really hard. There was a year we make combined $37,000 combined. That's no money. That's good and love. It was hard. In Kansas City, Missouri. I'm not. And we lived in Phoenix. That's what we had to move because you couldn't win or rent. Even more. Yeah. Bad. It was really. Yeah. High living. Low income. We learned so much from those experiences and I feel like that helped shape us as we become adults. We're not afraid to take risks because we lived these lives where yeah, it was low stake or we kind of had to make hard decisions a lot of the times. And if we lost everything, we knew that we'd be okay. Like we could figure it out. It kind of made us a little scrappy. So I feel like there's so many fun things like that for me. And I think you build so much trust. Like you're not going to take risk of someone that you don't trust. Like when you have all this history, it's like you've show not from me every time. Like we can do this together and like you know that, you know, your person's gonna be with you and gonna be along for the ride no matter what. Totally. That's a major advantage too. Totally. Yeah, we didn't have those 20s where we like go and travel the world and do all these great fun Instagram things, but hopefully we get that in our 30s. We said we're gonna go clubbing when we're ending nesters. We'll go with you. It was so our wildest. (laughing) The Ellen Pompeo video, I kinda just wrote out exactly what she said. I think it's actually really sweet what she says. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'll say. Wait, what's Ellen Pompeo? Grey's Anatomy. Oh, that's what you said. Yeah, that's what she said. So I wrote it out because I thought it was, I listened to it and I was like, wow. This is like really cool, especially being a new mom on my end, but especially being a working mom and figuring out how to do that. You cannot be a mother and have children and give 100% to your job. It is a part of you that is somewhere else. You split into different pieces. You are no longer just you. You know what it does? It gives you more soul, richer, funnier, more empathetic, angrier. It gives you a range of emotions. You can't even imagine having without this person. You will be yourself times a thousand. You will just be a better version of yourself. It doesn't matter that you can't give 100% to this because by the way we are is women we evolve. But if it's something that you want, it will only make you better. I am so much better for having children. That's so good. I feel like she kind of clarified what we were saying but you can't have it all. You can't give 100% of your all to work and do the crazy grind hustle culture and give 100% to your kids. There's got to be a given a tank and a take. I do think obviously we're examples of you could be working moms. And I know a ton of women. I know women that in med school that have had kids and families and they make it work. My mom was a full-time working mom my entire life. And I think of her as nothing but present and attentive to our needs. Like totally. It's not, but you just have there's going to be gifts with work and your number one cannot be your job. I feel like when you have kids. - It's because we're limited. Like you're literally just, you cannot. - Yes. - I think that's one thing you said to Abby too is you said that your marriage is above your career. - Yeah. - To yes, your kids are above your career but your marriage also is as well. - Yeah, that was actually something that we brought up when we were talking about the song too, is that Matt and I consciously like we, so we went into college to be theater performers, actors, whatever that meant. And we, I was just laughing about that this morning 'cause I was like, Matt, realistically, things were gonna change anyway. But early on we're like, you know, this is like what we were going to school for, like this was the dream, right? And so then after one semester, we had talked to like a lot of our professors, which a lot of them had ended up going into teaching, like acting or whatever their class was or subject was because they were like, yeah, I wanted to have kids and I wanted to have a family. Or like they were like, I toured, I was in a tour in Asia and my partner was overseas for nine months a year. And we were just like, oh, like that's pretty, that's, I don't know if we wanted to make that sacrifice. And so very consciously after one semester, we were like, yeah, it's more important that we're together and we can prioritize us and like we already knew then that we wanted to get married and like soon. So we're like, we wanna just prioritize this marriage, like our marriage over career. And I think it was really good for us to make that decision really early on because it just made everything else really easy, honestly. And let me tell you, people were like worried in my life. Like happy you're gonna give this up. Like this is like you really, like you've done this since you were in second grade. Like you were really like shooting for this. And I just remember just being like, I didn't, I didn't grieve it. Which that doesn't mean that some people won't make sacrifices that they were like this was hard and I really miss it. And like to this day, like I still love theater and I still like miss, like Matt and I saw Wicked live and everybody told you that we like literally sobbed both of us when the opening number came in 'cause it just like brought something awake inside of us. We're like, oh, I like miss that passion, that time of our lives. But like to consciously make that hand off early on, like it was pretty different. And I think people were like, what? But it made everything really easy 'cause we're like, well, yeah, that's, if that's the cost, I don't wanna pay it. And yeah, I think that's a lot of things in life where you're like that. Yeah, so that to say, like me saying like you can't have it all is like you cannot, you yourself are a hundred percent. You can't give a hundred percent to everything. And if you do, you're just going to feel, like you're just gonna constantly be beating yourself up. Yeah, it doesn't mean you don't work. That doesn't mean you don't have kids. That just means that you are constantly in this tension totally. And that's part of it. And I don't know why that feels like controversial to say. Really? I don't know, I don't, I mean, I don't think it is, but I feel like people would be like, if I say you're a mom, you shouldn't give a hundred percent to your job over your kids. Like, I feel like that is like a universally, like if the man was like, I'm gonna work a hole like he doesn't give a time to his kids, I think everyone would be like, you're a jerk. But then when a mom, when a woman wants to say that, I feel like people are like, no, work. You can do it. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's true. And I just don't actually think that that's normal. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I feel like I'm navigating that right now of like working and being, I actually feel the most guilty when I'm with her and working. Right, that's how I'm with someone else. I'm like, it's so, I feel so much better when I know she's with someone who can give them their full attention and hang out with her and play with her. And then I can give my full attention to work for a little bit of time. And then I feel so much better on all aspects. I think it's 'cause they're so little, they don't understand that like exactly what's happening. So it's like, why is my mom here and like not playing with me? Like I think about that sometimes. And I feel like now just like having that conversation, I'm just like, I'm working and like, then they're like super good with it. Yes. But yeah, I think that's just attention that I'll live in constantly be evaluating. And that's okay. And it's gonna change and it's gonna look differently. But to summarize this, like Abby was saying, if you're dating and you're like, you just picture your whole life with this person and you're just like, no, just not the right time. We're like, I need to do X, Y and Z first. I don't know. I think the timeline is here and or there. I remember that being a huge thing when we got married 'cause everyone's like, you have to at least graduate college first. And I was like, no, we're not going to. And Matt never graduated. Yeah, it was still not going to happen. I never felt ready. Like I did not feel ready to have kids. And then I had kids and I was like, oh, you just get ready. You just figured out you make it work. And so if that's your thing where you just like, I just don't feel ready, don't feel ready. Just have trust in yourself that you are resilient and you can do it. And if that's the thing you want in the future, my encouragement is to just pull the trigger. Yeah, and having kids is actually great. Like I feel like there's a lot of, that's the thing that's hard. I keep quoting these other things. But remember the thing that was like huge or like chapel-roan, which I hope she didn't mean any hate to her, but I honestly think- I just disagreed with her, but I don't know. She said all of her friends that had kids, young or something like that, were miserable. And I think that it's just so interesting because that's her perspective of looking in there. And I think that also can reflect on us as young moms. How are we presenting to people that don't have kids? Like it's not totally on her, right? If you're gripping and moaning about it in front of people that don't have kids, that's not a good thing to do, honestly. But there's a time and a place to be like, this is really hard right now. We're in a stage where we're not sleeping. That's really, really hard. And you should have space to say that. I think that community is with other moms. And I think that's really great. And it's not like you can't say that, but it's just like the messaging should be positive first. And like this is awesome and super rewarding. And I'm sure those moms are like, yeah, I'm sure they're exhausted. But I'm sure if she were to come back and talk to them, like, do you think you made a mistake? Like, do you regret it? It would be absolutely not. - I know. - And so maybe those conversations could be a little bit more redeeming. I don't know, that's a good point. I get so frustrated online when I'm scrolling all the reels and it's just people awing on their kids in a humorous way. I'm like, yeah, these jokes are funny or like, it'll be a video of a kid doing something crazy, like smearing poop. You know, something that is really gross and really hard and like does sometimes happen. And the comments are, this was great birth control. This is great birth control. I'm like, that's not the point. Yeah, 'cause you can't control that audience at that point. - Yeah. - And I'm like, dang, I just, I never, I, that's, if that's what people think kids are, smearing poop and an inconvenience to your life. Like that sucks. You know, it's like, that's not the message that we want. And that, 'cause that's not true. - Yeah. - So yeah, it's like, you can share those stories with your friends and your family and like other moms, but to people that aren't moms, it's like, man, think about how they take that stuff. - Yeah, I think it's the worst. - They can do the worst. Like it's so interesting, even like over the holidays, you have a baby, you're going in and out, naps are crazy, all the things. And what did we do yesterday? We were like, okay, we're not gonna go to this thing because our daughter needs to nap. - You know, and you just learn and adapt and it's not miserable, like totally. - I guess it's just everyone's perspective. - Also, baby ears are short. I feel like people forget that. Like the nap stage is short. - We're still functioning. Like you see us, we're talking, we're alive. You aren't gonna go tell someone at the supermarket, I'm not sleeping. You're like, we still, you body adapts as a mom. - Yeah, I just, people always think that like the baby stages forever. And it's like, no events, but in three years, the kids are not gonna nap and then in five years, they're gonna be in school and you're not gonna see them. So, I don't know, like you're gonna have your life back in a couple of years. - Do you know what I mean? - I'm like, we're like dropping them off. - Kids are so inconvenient. - I can't help think of them. - I am not dropping them out, it's cool. (both laughing) - It's just like, I don't know. Like it's just a short time that we're inconvenienced and a great time of our life. - Yeah. And also, gosh, I can't say this and not think about someone that's like struggling with infertility or like going through a loss too. So, like not to say, like this is like the end. all be all or like your life can't start until that next thing happens. So there's so many people listening to this and I just had to think about that too. Like, things are saying that. Yeah. Like there's so much joy in where you're at now and it can feel like everything has to be on pause until that next thing happens or this thing or this stage enters or like maybe motherhood feels like this club that you're just not ever going to be a part of or like it's just really hard. And so all I just am like I'm thinking about you too. Like it's a great yeah that must be hard. Totally. And so yeah not like it's like the ultimate end all be all like everyone's life looks different everyone's timeline looks different and a lot of that is out of your control too. And so try not to beat yourself up and try to find contentment. I know that's such a general thing to say right now but there's a purpose for the season that you're in as much as you it doesn't look like what you want it to be like there's a purpose for it and lean on your friends. Yeah. Thanks for saying everything that's good to say that. Marriage and kids are amazing. Yes. And if you're in that season of waiting for those things and those are things that you want and they don't feel accessible right now like I hurt for you. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's hard totally. And our lives aren't like better than yours. No. Yeah. I would say I look back and I wish I would have enjoyed those seasons more than like I was like I was so excited to get married that I kind of just like tried to rush into getting married. I wanted kids so I rushed into and then I'm like ah I should have soaked it in a little bit more. So while it is hard it like you're waiting I'm like just soak it in. Yeah that's the hardest thing is finding contentment where you're at gosh especially like for someone like me like I don't even feel like I'm a planner at all like I don't even really think ahead but I'm just like I love looking forward to things. That's how I always like even as a kid I like looked back and I was like when something was ending my mom was like well this is coming and like I feel like that's how I always like kept propelling myself forward. So that's kind of life. Yeah. We love women We're pro women. We're pro children. We're pro marriage. Marriage. Ask, ask, ask, abbies. Wait this one this is our first time having a listener do it. Oh my gosh it's gonna be fun. We're gonna do three questions or three voicemails from listeners and here is the first one. My name's Francesca and I was wondering what's your best advice for getting motivated to help with my like self image and how I feel about my body and basically how to motivate myself to lose a bunch of weight. Love you guys. Oh my gosh this is just sweet honest for Francesca. Thank you for sending that. I feel like probably a lot of people relate to that or one of the same things. I feel like my initial reaction is way is just is just a number you know and that shouldn't I don't always feel like that's not a bad motivation for things if it's like unhealthy but I think your motivation should just be health and I feel like that's especially a postpartum I felt that a lot like especially when your body changes a lot you know I feel like as women our bodies go through a lot of ups and downs and it's been motivating and really fun and it's helped like keep my health forefront of mine when I just think about I want to feel strong I want to feel like I have the best energy levels and all that so finding that's been motivating for me and if it's I feel like if I'm just like oh I want to lose weight or I'm not feeling confident about my body and I want to wait wait wait then that leads me to want to do unhealthy things like not eat the way that I should or like you know eat less calories than I that's correct or go to crazy in the gym or it's overwhelming and I don't want to do anything at all and so I feel like that's almost not like the I feel like there is other factors that could be maybe more motivating than weight on the scale I don't know yeah find a way to move your body that you just actually really like yes and that can be a lot of trial and error I think the great place to start would be group fitness because it you have that built-in accountability and you don't have to think you literally just show up and they tell you what to do and you leave and like almost every time you get a good well-rounded workout because someone that's really well trained in all this is like writing it for you and more than anything like if you find a community that's like that's the best way to stay accountable in my opinion and something that you like now something I want to say is that like you can't hate the way you look or hate your body into changing I think you have to love it into that and I mean that that sounds so cheesy but I mean that in the sense of like you have to love your body in the sense that like you want to do good things for it and like move it and feed it well and also treat it like do those things and then you'll that will be the change rather than like I just despise what I see and that's that's just not gonna be long-lasting um I feel like this is my conversation in my mom a lot like I'm like hey your goals should just be to show up yeah that is amazing that's my only goal is to show up and like I want to do it because I want to do something good for my body because I love my body and I want to be able to do things with it for a long time and so I feel like the motivation has to come from love and not like hate now the self-image part that is hard and gosh I don't even necessarily know how to tackle that like I feel like that's something that everyone struggles with yeah and I think it shifts a lot throughout your life yeah yeah and I feel like Francesca you sound you sound young which is sweet thank you for like listening and um I just feel like too as you get older that will change like I remember feeling very insecure about myself when I was in high school and you know worrying about all these things I look back at pictures now I'm like why would I ever like insecure or like why do I worry about these things at a young age and as you get older I feel like you get life experience you kind of get out of like oh these are the certain images or standards of beauty or this is what's right and what's wrong and you kind of get this overall which is like silly to say like oh just wait you know that's not my point but I'm just saying like as when you're young it feels like it's your whole world and it's everything that you're thinking of and it's really important it feels really important so yeah I just like gave yourself some grace when you're young and in the interim I feel like when I have felt like low self image times just giving a little bit like maybe this is bad guys correct me if it's bad advice but sometimes I'm like let me just get myself done up like what time and then I just feel like it just like kick starts me into like I don't know I know okay so say I do my mascara and I'm like gosh my eyes like they're really standing out and then you start to notice the things naturally about yourself that you really like and so it's like less of a crush and more of just like a kick start I don't know like find find things that make you feel more confident like if there's a certain way you do your hair or like a little bit of makeup or an outfit that you feel like really flatters you I feel like that's just the thing that you can kick start you into like social settings and what you're gonna have people that are like actually like speak life into you and like fulfill you in other ways and kind of get you out of that headspace where it's like the only thing that matters is like how I look which maybe that is like how it feels but then once you're out like oh people like me because I'm funny or people like me because like they like the things I have to say or the energy I bring to a room and it's like maybe that's just all it takes to get you in those settings you know I don't know when I'm like in a downworld I'm like I think I just need to like curl my hair yeah do a little mascara and then get out get out of my space and be with other people and that really kind of helps like get your thoughts out of your own head yeah yeah that's good thanks for saying that the the question hi guys this is Kamari I have been watching you all for quite some time my question is how do you find the strength to keep going as a mother even when you're going through things like grease postpartum depression and just rise itself it's fresh for me still like but yeah you saying that does like reveal in me I feel like there was a lot of times like especially at the beginning where I was like I'm not showing up all for my kids because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief like I just felt like I couldn't show up for them I think you gave me this advice Abby so this was good but it was you were like it's good for them to see you grieving it's good for them to see you like sad I don't know how you said it but and I think other friends gave me that advice as well because I was like so stuck in this like I can't be around them if I'm just such a bother like if I'm just so down and so then it was like me retreating and like Matt was doing everything for the kids and I that's a privilege because like this mom who called in like she probably she might not have that as an option and I just want to say like it's okay because I need to hear this too it's okay for your kids to see you down it's I think important to follow up with conversation though about like what you are down about in a child appropriate way and finding ways to do that was really important for me because I think this is how kids also start to learn how to cope with their own feelings knowing that I've heard it said before too like when kids experience like an emotion and they feel like mom or dad never had like they never experienced this they don't know what it's like and it can that can feel really confusing and lonely for kids so like saying like mom feel sad right now and I would like tell them like why I was sad in a child appropriate way and that like felt like a relief to me that I didn't have to just completely disappear because I was just like sad and it also feel like for them like then they had a frame of reference where it's like okay like then they would bring it up to me and so I feel like that was like I'm not explaining this well at all but basically don't feel like you have to shield your kids from that I do think that you should reflect like how am I going to like especially with some of the things you can be grieving can be really like really heavy and maybe not necessarily Because also I was like, if I start to talk about this to like my two and three year old, I could really unload on them and that's not their job. So just like do this thoughtfully but don't feel like you have to hide that up or bottle that up or just completely retreat because they're smart. They're really smart no matter how young they are. Totally. That's a good answer. Yeah, your grief came from a place of love and that's a really important thing for your kids to see it. And I think anyone who's going through loss, like if you're grieving a loss of a parent of a child of anything, like you're feeling super sad because you loved them so much and that's a really sweet thing for your kids to see and for you to explain to them like this is like, I loved them so much, you know. And like that's a, what's the word like honorable thing that's not, you know, and I think that's a good reminder like grief isn't bad, like it's coming from a place of like love and sadness. I think have grace on yourself too. That's so hard to do sometimes but just like know that this is a tough season and it's not going to look like this always. So for me, like your question is about keeping going and it's like I think set small goals for yourself, like as a mom would be like just a really, like depending on how older kids are. I want to do one guided activity with them today or I want to do 10 minutes of just like play with them and then just like having those like little goals to start help get you back in motion to and then you can also just be like I showed up for them and you don't have to just deal with that guilt of like maybe I can't be as fun or as like lively or imaginative. Like I was like I can't use my imagination right now like I just remember it's feeling like I can just like run around and be goofy but like I'm like I can sit down and do play that with them for like 10 minutes or things like that. So just set small goals to because like eventually three weeks and small goals you'll find yourself in a better place like I guarantee it and it doesn't it fluctuates too as I'm sure anyone who's gone through grief knows but yeah yeah you don't have to hide that from your kids like yeah then your kids are older and they look back on that and like oh wow mom really struggled with postpartum depression or mom was really grieving during that season they're not gonna think she was so weak you know they're gonna think wow the coast strong my mom is she got through that season and she's still at this amazing mom and she loves us. So but they might feel confused if it's not like a conversation if that makes sense. Oh for sure. Yeah. And because I think kids tend to put things on themselves like how their parents are doing like on themselves so yeah what are some tips or advice that you have for when you know this bad luck that's your pregnant. When you just got out your pregnant what do you do oh you probably sweat a lot by deodorant I would listen to a podcast I was like what do I do when you find out what you like actually do actually what should you do. That's a great question. Well as a big part at the beginning there's not a lot to do totally you kind of don't wait because you you call your doctor you need to make a doctor's appointment and they're gonna tell you. And OBGYN. I know OBGYN what did you say they don't they tell you to wait till eight weeks yeah and you're like oh my gosh I don't know how many weeks I am they'll help you calculate it help you figure it out. Gosh it's so exciting and so fun I remember when I found out with CJ I was obviously like really surprised and I drove to Starbucks and I was sweating so much and trying to hold back tears and I hadn't told anybody yeah I drove a million Starbucks I was gonna get a drink and I told the guy at the counter go can you write on it I'm pregnant and then I was just and he's like did you just find out I was like yeah and he gave me a hug and I was always waiting. Yeah so after that emotions kind of like settle you could decide then with your partner how you want to tell people and when you want to tell people I think that's kind of wait yeah it's a lot of waiting yeah would you agree Eddie yeah I had no idea what to do and we were recording a podcast that day and so I listened to a podcast from I don't even know who someone somewhere I was like what to do when you find out you're pregnant what they say what they say they said make an appointment call OB if you haven't found one start taking a prenatal if you're not oh that's a good idea I wasn't taking a prenatal I should have been yeah I'm in a lot of waiting. But I also just told everyone that day so yeah that's what it's part it's like can I just have to tell someone tell these one person I had to tell get off your chest you know I told Abby and then she convinced us to go tell everyone I also knew that my mom would be so mad if I knew yeah like long before her yeah I was like you are you waiting for a specific reason or it's like if you're not you better tell lower yeah Blake was the one that was like let's wait and I'm like yeah yeah that's that's so exciting congratulations yeah oh my gosh it's great I had an unhinged this is probably gonna get cut but when I was thinking about pros and cons getting married this is unhinged but I just had to say it okay you get married young you're gonna have sex oh wow you got a lot of practice huh like I literally Matt asked chat GPT a lot more as in a lot more in your lifetime yes yeah it's so true like they're if you're just doing one night sensors literally no way you'll spend your whole light coordinating partners like I mean it's just not gonna work out Matt asked chat GPT like where we at as far as I get to kill them and I also just calculated that up just ourselves though just ourselves I'm not gonna give it but no yeah no I was like no one it take a long time for newlyweds to catch you'll never have done hey okay we cried a lot this episode I had to do something light it oh thanks guys for supporting us it's like obviously we're we're working out our podcast muscle yeah it's gonna get stronger over time but we're new to this it feels I'm no you're like this is a new role for you yeah it's definitely a new role for me so yeah thanks for listening to episode two thanks for listening we'll be back next week if you want to leave it a voice mail for next week's episode be sure to call in and the number is 602 456 9690 if you're driving or doing laundry or something it'll also be in the description and on our Instagram page follow us on the Instagram page that'd be really fun on YouTube and subscribe to and take talk with us well thanks so much for being here and being a part of the always here community that makes this like so much more fun totally doing this with you guys so and remember we're always here