Parallels: Where Sport and Business Intersect with Jenny Casson

At the next playbook, we are a proud partner of Momentus, one of the highest quality nutritional and dietary supplements. The team at Momentus works closely with performance coaches, nutritionists, and athletes representing every major professional sports league in North America and the NCAA to build products that work, are certified safe and come with clean and green labels. I use Momentus Criatine for muscle performance and cognitive function and I love the lemon travel packs for when I'm on the go. I also use Momentus Recovery post workout and I have some unique flavors including my personal favorite, Chocolate Coconut. And for our listeners, Momentus is offering 20% off your purchase at livemomentus.com when you enter code Playbook20. You can also find the code in the show notes to redeem the discount, so hop on their website to find the supplements you need to help you pursue your goals and live Momentus. Anyone that knows me well knows that I am a creature of habit when it comes to my attire. I hate thinking about what I'm going to wear and the same applies to my workout gear. I was a little hesitant when goal five reached out and asked me to try some of their apparel, but I have since fallen in love with their clothing. It is designed by women for women and there are a couple standout items I've purchased in multiple colors. My favorites are the Fowdy 2.0 Longsleeve which is so soft and perfect for cool mornings on the Beach volleyball court, along with the Excel Women's shorts that are ideal for hot yoga. And beyond great gear, I love their mission and pursuit of equity for women in sport. And now our listeners can get 15% off their first order by using code Playbook15 at checkout. You can also find the code in the show notes to redeem the discount, so head to goal5.com and use Playbook15 to get 15% off your first order. Goal5. Built for athletes backing the future of women in sport. Welcome to the next Playbook, where we explore the journeys of elite athletes and the transitions they've made throughout their remarkable careers. From Olympians to professional and collegiate athletes, these guests share their personal stories and how they've tackled each phase, including life after the final whistle. Get ready to hear from the best in the game and how they're creating impact far beyond their sporting careers. This is the next Playbook. There's so much athletes bring to the table when it comes to making the transition from sport to business. I know at first hand from my own experience and I can see it every day in the athletes we work with at the next Playbook. There's a grit, determination, resilience, and I will figure it out attitude that just comes naturally after so many years of devoting your life to developing yourself physically and mentally in sport. Jenny Casson is a two-time Olympic roer and she's gone on to work in a variety of industries from women's apparel where she founded a company to tech where she's now working in AI. The parallels between sport and industry never cease to amaze her and she's taken all that hard work from her rowing career to be successful in business. This is Jenny Casson and this is the next Playbook. I was excited to talk to you for a couple of reasons. Number one, you're a crossover athlete. I played rugby, a lot of the national team players that we have have crossed over from some other sport and gotten into rugby. I know that you've got some history with track and then of course moving over to triathlons and a variety of things that you have now done in your athletic career. But I think what really piqued my interest was the fact that you have started a product, launched a brand, built something from scratch because there's so many athletes that when they think about what they want to do after their career as an athlete, like sitting behind a computer, sitting at a desk, working for somebody else is just not what they dream of. And figuring out how to start a business and be an entrepreneur is pretty appealing to a lot of athletes. So I appreciate you coming on today to share a bit of your background and how you got into this. But let's start with sports. So what kind of family did you grow up in? How did you get into athletics? Yeah, I grew up in a try everything at no limits kind of family when it came to sports. My mom just for contacts my mom is about five foot one on the good day and like she was a high like she's been 120 pounds soaking my most alive and my dad is a self a self a claim built like a brick house. And so he I quite a bit taller so my dad played rugby my mom was a speed walker in track for track or field. And she loved it and my dad rugby sailing so they themselves grew up very active and I was sort of the child they never thought they could have honestly so they got married very late. They met very late in life and they had me at 40 and 50 respectively. And so when it came to giving me opportunities that was sort of their joy to be like they loved seeing their child try everything. And and so I was just so fortunate to grow up in such a supportive household when it came to athletics and honestly community that it was never about winning it was never about being the best it was about trying as many things as you could and seeing if you liked it. And that's how I really got into sports for my parents for like do you think you would like this and I would go yes I would definitely like to try seven different sports in one winter alone that sounds like a good idea for me. And so we did and just my circumstance of where I lived as well exposed to me to so many different things I was born in Kingston Ontario. I three days old I was on a boat on an island so that was like my introduction to water. And then I was actually raised in a get no in hull in Quebec. So I would spend my weekends growing up skiing and I was an I would scare I would do a little bit of racing and then we moved back to Kingston and then I got involved in every single other sport under the sun from swimming to basketball soccer volleyball track like you name it I did it honestly like I think the way that Kayyan sports systems were organized it was you had the capacity to do two sports per like every chunk and I was like yes and more. And so growing up I dive all doubt I was single one and I was very lean growing up I was until I hit or on 16 and then I gained like a lot of weight in one year and develop that classic puberty female injury that I think a lot of young athletes go through. Very aggressively and had to say no more to running unfortunately for the time being and luck would have it my little brother was rowing and I said what is that that sounds terrible let me try. Also my mom was like 530 you have your driver's license this could be something and so I got handed the keys if you will. And and child and sport and that's sort of how it went from Schmorgas sport to rolling in the sense and just again all credit to my parents like every I think athlete says they owe it to their their mom or their dad or someone supported in their life and I'm here to stand and say that's true with me as well. Thankfully and I'm grateful for it. There's a couple threads I want to pull on here the first around this multi sport athlete as a kid we are watching kids get specialized in things so early now. And you know there are lots of debates on both sides on what that sets you up for long term how important was that multi sport background to you becoming a successful as you were as a rower. It was the only way to be successful as I was as a rower I can think of. So many different reasons as to why though and I would carry that on into an athlete's career is only so long athletes you can't have a lifelong career out of sport. If you're putting your child into a specific sport and the goal is to go pro you have to remember the finite opportunities that come with that for an individual in addition. There's one or not though there's one the run James sure and they're able to be successful but you have to equip your child with the ability to fall back on something. And when they've spent their young lives dedicated to one thing every single day from the get go that limits not only their athletic abilities and their athletic prospects but also mentally. It really decreases their chance of understanding and experiencing different communities and different opportunities and being engaged in those as well. So I get really scared when I see some of the parents push their children into one sport in one community in one discipline with one goal. At ages honestly like 4 8 10 12 especially women where yes of course women were making more money in sport it's very exciting but we have to remember like really simply that's not going to catch up in time. And on top of that it really makes the athletes identity as they grow up singularly tied to that sport and so when you hit an age of I don't want to say crisis but when you hit an age of reflection it kind of all comes crumbling down where the athletes sitting there looking at themselves saying I have no idea who I am. I have a finite set of skills that have been focused in Taylor to one sport I didn't reach my goal so I'm a failure in all regards and it's quite that it's possible to get through it I have seen a lot of people get through but it's a huge challenge and it takes a lot of time. And it's a disservice to that child themselves who then is going to become a young adult and adult eventually into what the world's actually looking like and what the world can be. And yeah I I I am. understand why and I understand those who live through their children or rather want the best for their child. And there's a lot of good intention in thinking you're doing the right thing for your kid by giving them this huge opportunity to pursue this one sport at a high level. I understand and the allure and the attraction of being that LeBron or Serena or whoever you want. It's very, it's, it's, it's, you're in awe of it. You want nothing more for your child, but we have to remember that it's so, it's about so much more than that when you're young. And at the end of the day, if a child's going to be at that level, I, I, I hesitate to say it will be because of the exposure of singularly the exposure of you allowing them to pursue that one goal. It has to come from within them. It really does. The athletes were at the top at that level. A lot of it comes from the inside. And I would encourage you to go back and, and track the, the structure of those athletes and see it wasn't linear. There are not many athletes at that level who have a linear path to their success. And I would not try and embody that at a young age for a child because it's, it's not how they got there, right? So there's a lot of research that has to be done when you have that as a goal, but you don't understand that the path that allowed for that to happen. You talked about identity and this podcast is all about the transitions that we make as athletes at different points in our careers and you know, talking a lot about the hit that that that can have to your identity. When you take yourself back to that injury at 16 and you know, what you were doing in track, like how much did that impact, how you thought about yourself, your sports, what you were doing? Well, it's funny because I, I didn't realize like I had no idea it was because I had game so much weight. Like my parents, we never had like a weight conversation in my house full. Like my parents never thought twice about how I looked. They were like, maybe brush your hair every once in a while. Like that was kind of the, which is a QI stick. That was the Q, right? So I never really like had an identity crisis. I was more just like, like, I remember just being kind of devastated that I couldn't go and go around a track. Like I was like, there's a reason that I don't understand. My legs hurt a lot. This means I can't run. And my doctor at the time, oh my gosh, let this be a lesson. She told me that I had gotten stress fractures because I was on birth control. There is zero. And I would love for a keyboard warrior to fight me on this zero connection or reason for that to have been the case. And I had no, and I believed her, right? My mom and I didn't know. And she were like, oh my gosh, I did this to myself. What are you telling a child in what world that it was ridiculous? And so I went under that premise and I was like, well, I did this to myself. You know, of course, I should have been smarter. So I had definitely an identity crisis in the sense of more just very disappointed in myself that I had made a bad decision. And that this was something I guess I could have prevented. But the reality was it wasn't. And thankfully, my parents understood that I was really struggling with not being able to run anymore and really just sort of did the whole, all right? Water with the bridge. Let's move on. What's next? Let's keep going. Let's keep pushing. Let's find something new for you. Let's encourage you to do that. And so again, just I was supported in a way that I needed at the time. And thankfully, that helped me get through that little identity crisis real quick. But it's crushing. When you're at that age and it's something you love and you have high schools of stressful time, there's a lot going on. All right. Talk us through the transition to rowing. And at what point did you realize you were pretty good at this? I love this question because it's like, it was never because everyone's like, oh, I wanted to go to the Olympics since I was a kid. And I've always been like, yeah, I wanted to go on. Mm-hmm. Rowling was fun. My story is definitely a non-linear, not planned. And speaking to true character only because someone said I couldn't. And then I decided I would just to prove them wrong, which is how I get into a lot of situations, believe it or not. And so in college, I started rowing grade 11, which is junior year. And then I ended up being thankfully to my sport background quite good, quite early, and was able to pull an Earthscore that got me an incredible scholarship to the University of Tulsa in Oklahoma. And I was peak age of Get Me Out of this small town, which the town I know love, of course. But Get Me Out of this small town and went on to Oklahoma from small town Kingston, Tulsa, Oklahoma, very different. And I went there to row of all things too. And with the mindset of just embracing it and becoming a college athlete, which was a huge a huge deal at the time for me. And a Div 1 team, which was really cool. I'd kind of didn't have that. And I was like, this is neat. Look at me. I get shirts and trips and food. And this is so cool. It's like TV. It was legitimately just like what I saw on TV. So I was very, very excited about that. Worth the excitement for sure. And you know, college Div 1 sports has highs and lows. I don't think that's a secret to anybody. But I spent the first two years just like honestly trash effort, like bare minimum, like just way too concerned about how they had a good time. Way too concerned about my social life, which I'm glad I was. Like I'm very proud of those insane moments of college nonsense. They built me into who I am today. I would never be able to do that again. And then around the third year, another reckoning moment of, oh my gosh, I should do something with my life. I don't relate to at all. I went into Kino and X-Sport science. I thought I would do something with it. Got to year three. And I was like, this means nothing to me. And I liked school, but I didn't love school. And I was, I was a good student. Never a great student. I wish I was a great student. I wish it came easily to me. And I was naturally gifted in an intelligent, but I would have had to have worked very hard. And I guess I wasn't willing to do that for school. Roaring, however, I was like, oh, I like this. This is very challenging physically. It also exhausts me mentally. I do love the sport. I did love the sport. And so I ended up moving out from being with a rooming. I was just living by myself. And I was like, I wonder what happens if I start trying harder. This could be cool. And I honestly, I don't know what it was. I just started working harder, getting a schedule, becoming more disciplined naturally, because I just, it fueled me in a different way and it made me feel a very in control. And I liked it because it was at my own pace. And then there was this moment where, and I said the story before, where I was walking from the bus, so we would get a bus to the course and then back to the cafeteria. And it would take us and then we would jog off of the cafeteria. Anyways, we're walking in to the cafeteria and we're talking about the Olympics. And the crazy story is there's another roar from the University of Tulsa, Missile's Michelle Setcher, who represented the United States. And she was at that time competing for the National Trials and the Olympics in Rio. And we were saying how crazy it was that an athlete from the University of Tulsa was going to be at the Olympic Games, like that was insane for a rowing. And no one could believe it. And someone said, well yeah, like, and she hadn't made the Olympics yet. And then someone said, well, no one from this university will ever make the Olympic Games. And I heard that. And I was like, why not? Why would you say that? And she was like, well, we're a small did one school. Like that's crazy. And let's be clear, this girl who said that I have a lot of time for her. She's like, nothing but respect. She's a wonderful human being. It was just the comment. And for some reason inside of me, I was like, I should have watched this. And so fast forward, that carried me through. And I ended up, again, getting stronger, getting fitter, doing some, a lot of work on my own, just because it felt right. And I'll know something inside of me that it felt right. And really taking care of myself. And I leaned out. And so, and I want to credit myself here. I leaned out in a healthy way. I wasn't doing anything bad at the time. And I ended up getting strong enough to be recruited for the national teams. So I submitted some Earth scores. They said, this looks decent. They just get, they say, this is good. They invited me to, this was nuts. They invited me to my first exposure to the National Training Center, the National Team for Team Canada. I was an invitation to a camp there holding in Delan, Florida in February over March break, where the National Team was having their Olympic selection. And I was going to go as a little honor 23 to learn how to score. I walked into a fire. I was like, I went down there thinking, this could be so fun. I'm going to make new friends. And especially now that I know what that environment was like at the time. And I had no idea. So that was like day one. And so that year I went down. I had this amazing coach, Michelle Darvel, who went on to Winneal and McGold with the women's 8th and Tokyo. And she kind of took me under her wing and she saw something in me and she was like, you should give this a go. And I was like, very good. Sounds good. So that summer ended up trialing for the other 23 team, made the 23 team, competed that summer with my partner, Tyne Allen Gladow. And then the following year kind of did the same thing. And graduated. And then that's the second summer. I saw I learned how to score. a skull, so rubbing one or two ores. And I had never sculled growing up, but you know, when you work hard, you can figure it out kind of thing. And so I figured it out, which and I we competed under 23 years twice. And then the same year of my second honor 23s, I was in the senior woman's quad. And at the world championships in Sarasota, which was my first senior senior championships in Ironic, because I have now live in Tampa. And I it's right there. It's funny. It's a small world. But then I was hoped, you know, I was in and I was like, Oh, no, this is it. This is what I would like to do. And the Olympics were still so far fetched like I was like, there's no way like those girls are so good. Like, I'll never be that good. And when and if you qualify for the Olympic Games the year before, you do not qualify your seat qualifies. And that's the hardest thing to appreciate is that Jenny Casson is not going to the Olympic Games because she qualified the boat that boat has a spot at the Olympic Games. Jenny Casson could in fact be on the plane to Tokyo, or Paris and someone else who is faster than her get her seat by the time she land in Tokyo, or Paris. And that has happened to other people that I know, which is insane. So it's it's a bit of a monster. So it's hard to really think, I'm I'm finally going to the Olympics because even with when you're like at the Olympic Village, you're like, you know, so it's it's crazy. Yeah, it's it's a wild journey. All right, you have gone on to be a two-time Olympian, you know, road in Tokyo, road in Paris. What is it like when you finally know that this is you that's going to be in this seat representing your country? Oh yeah, it's nothing shorter terrifying, honestly. It it's so scary, but then you think like, I've worked so hard for this and I love this so much and here I am competing against my friends. Like my legitimate friends are the ones who I want to beat and you know these girls when it's two seats and certain amount of countries, you know those girls and it is a blast to be able to race them. Like a highlight of my life is going toe-to-toe with some of those absolute monsters on the water because I know how hard my thing with rowing is like, I know how hard I work to get this fast. Respect. Like that is because in rowing it's not it's not a by chance you're super fit and strong and really technically savvy kind of sport. It's like, no, you have to work in an absolute animal to be at this level and to be able to compete at this level and then to go on and win. Like so it's it's it's everyone says it's an honor, but it really it is like it's an honor for so many different reasons to be able to sit there and be like, whoa this is amazing. Also Olympics. Wow. But yeah on the flip side, I mean we're not that far out of Paris in 2024. What was it like coming home after those Olympics? Yeah, just brutal. I mean the Olympic blues are nothing short of like soul crushing. It was unfortunate, fortunate that after Tokyo, I was really lucky in the sense that I had an immediate distraction with double hip surgery. Like it was the best, hmm well, I shouldn't say that, but it was wonderful because it was an immediate distraction. I could be like, oh, I have something else to occupy myself with. I have to get going get this done and I have to do it fast because there's three years until the next quad and it's short. It's compressed. I have to go, go, go, go, go. After Paris, like my events gone. Like there's no, maybe I'll go back. It's done. And I spent five to six years with Jill, Jeremy and like my support staff, my teammates every single day, two or three times a day, concert communication, 12 months a year, seven days a week. Like you are, like, Jill and I were married. We are married. That's the way it is. And when you lose all those people, like the next day, it is not, it just you're just dead inside. Like you have, everyone's like, oh, you're vacationing. It's so fun. Look at you having a great time. Like you're finally freed. I'm like, no, giving my hand comes back. I'm good. Like, I liked it over there. So it was really tough. And I think it's something that only athletes really can honestly get. Like, you have to kind of go through it to be like, oh, this is very hard for reasons I did not expect. And I think it's one thing to win a medal and then end your Olympics. I think it's another thing to be ready to end your career as an athlete. And I think it's another thing to finish your Olympics in other disappointment knowing that it went not the way you wanted it all. And there's no second chance or third chance in my case. So it's, it's, you know, God bless the people in my life who helped me through those very dark days. Yeah. On that note, what were some of the resources that you leaned on? What are some of the resources you would suggest others use to get through this? Something like this. I would suggest front loading your experience. IE, for everything in place before you go through the Olympic Games, know that it's going to happen. Get ready for it. Don't undervalue the weight of that feeling and prepare your family for what they're going to need to do for you. I think there's nothing worse than your parents and your loved ones seeing you in that state. And like questioning how this ever happened and thinking, oh, this is something I'm doing, something they're doing, whatever else it is. Like, you know, put yourself in that situation and think, what am I going to need in advance? So prepare, prepare, prepare. It feels like the things you're doing are taking away from your ability to perform. But I think it's so important to do that preparation so that you can be free performing, not worried about what happens when the buzzer stops, right? Like, it's, whether you know it or not, it's weighing on you subconsciously. And you're, you're running away from it to a certain degree, we all really are. And that's okay. But counseling therapy, have your therapist be aware, have them understand what you're going through. And don't look at it as a weakness. Don't look at it as a flaw. Embrace it. Almost think I'm, I'm, I'm ready for this. And then when you're in that little period, find something that makes you feel like you have a purpose again, find something that makes you feel like you're a part of a team. Do something absolutely dumb, like sign up for a race that you probably may or may not end. I wouldn't, I don't encourage injury, but you know, sign up for a race that you can probably prepare a little bit for it. Some degree, compete in some level because that's who you are, your competitor. And, and, and just try and, and, and have someone or a group of people in your environment that you're going to be leaving from to stay close to and have a, an environment where you can talk about what you're going through together. And it will help. Yeah. What did you think you wanted to do when you got done racing at this level? Oh my gosh. I was like, let's not think about that right now because I have no idea what's going to happen. And I don't want to think about it. It was tough, right? Because I, my personal situation was difficult as well because my husband, who I didn't think was going to be back in the picture, all of a sudden came back in the picture and we got married. And I was like, all this changes things because he, as a discredit to my husband, he was always in the picture, you know, but, um, long story short, we met in Tulsa. We were together for two years. We broke up for four, got back together after Tokyo and then did a long distance for four and we got proposed married, all that stuff in between. But he is from Trinidad and Tobago. He is a permanent resident in Canada. So I knew that when I came down here after the Olympics, I couldn't get a job. And I was like, it's not going to go over very well for me because I didn't even know what I wanted to do. But then that was bad because I was an excuse. I was like, I can't get a job. It looks like I have to think about it. Perfect. I was like, I don't have to worry about this. So my plan was really wait until I get the green card and then go into corporate, go into go into an EY or Deloitte track. And and there are a lot of opportunities that I thought were exciting through that because I had had other athletes go through that experience. Um, and they had, they, they, they have done and they continue to do so well, like so well for themselves. Personally, professionally, and I just, I, I, I saw them do that. And I was like, hmm, yes, me. But I don't have to worry about that right now, because I can't work. So it was, it was very um, out of sight out of mind. Mistake out of sight out of mind. All right. So you have been a leadership coach, a speaker you've gotten into tech. But there is this one other thing that you have done. You have co-founded and started a brand. Can you talk a little bit about how you decided to start daily and what it is? Yeah, absolutely. So daily is a company that I co-founded last year with my co-founder, uh, Menuela. Recently, we've had a little bit of a change internally. So I've taken a smaller role in the company, um, because I've taken on this new job, but they literally filled me with so much joy and so much drive because the product that we have created and had created was a brothel with broad shoulders. And it was very exciting given that I knew that the people in my world needed it. I knew that my co-founder was going to be relentless in making sure it was absolutely perfect on the product side. And I was able to learn fast and learn lessons I otherwise would never have gotten exposed to as an entrepreneur, as a business woman. You know, again, I'm at my own pace because I had to quickly and aggressively learn how to figure this stuff out ASAP, but there was no consequence in my failure because when you're starting your own business, it's up to you. It's up to how much you want it and what you're willing to spend at your time like figuring out. And it was incredible. It is incredible. The business itself, it resonated with so many people and it was really the women who reached out to us and were part of our network that just said, "Yes, yes, why is this not a thing?" And we're like, "Yes, yes." And believe me, there's so much more under here. So it was wonderful from that sense because I got my community back, right? I got my community back in 10 fold or whatever the expression is. And I had to dance online in the prototype bra and have everyone see me and they said to family, "Thank God, sweet Lord, what is happening to our niece?" She has lost it and I was like, "Yes, goodbye. I have lost my mind to see you." But you gotta put yourself out there. It makes you stronger, honestly, it does. And I regret nothing. - There is this quote from you. "The parallels between sport and industry "and never cease to surprise me." Can you talk a little bit about some of those parallels and what you've talked from your athletic career that has served you so well in the industries you've worked in now? - Gosh, every environment needs leadership, every environment needs collaboration, every environment needs curiosity, every environment needs empathy. It is the values you bring to the space that you're in, that dictate your success. And I don't think athletes ever will appreciate the years that they've spent sharpening those skills that come so naturally to them. I shock myself when I'm in a situation and I look around and I'm like, "Are we really having this conversation "at this level?" Y'all are executives. Like it is crazy and it's so wonderful because you shouldn't sit there and say to yourself, "Oh, I have these life skills and I'm better than you." Or, "I don't have your skills in this workforce, "I'm not as good as you." It's a matter of, "Oh, oh, you have those skills "that are really, really sick and I need to learn." But I have these skills that I also think are cool and you could probably learn from, let's figure out how to get this ball rolling together. And people will gravitate towards that. If you're willing to A be super vulnerable in your own level, don't diminish yourself but be open and be honest about where you're at and also give them the space to expose themselves for the excellence that they have as well because everyone is really, really good at something. Something. And sport should be able to teach you that because if everyone on the team is really good at the same thing, granted, you shall be good at your sport. That's how you about he limbics. But if you're all good at the one specific thing, it's not really how you make a team, right? And so those skills of recognizing that in others of being able to bring it out of others and then if you're well-natured and couldn't do what well-intended, it does translate directly. - What are some of the differences that you have experienced between sport and business that maybe surprised you that you wish you had known a little bit more about before getting into it? Oh my gosh, there's no finish line. There's nothing that I don't know what line cross. That was crazy to me. I was like, okay, but what is the goal that like what are we, what are we, well the goal is growth, the goal is success, the goal is evolving, the goal is bigger and bigger and more and more in that. I'm like, okay, is there a number? Is there like a time? Is there like a day? Like what is the, and that was hard because athletes plan, we have a schedule, we have a routine, we have an end date, we have a start date, we have an exit door, should we wish? We have, everything's kind of, seconds don't. And that way when things don't go right or things go wrong, you kind of realign. But in business, it's like you pivot, right? So you have this really crazy ambitious goal to grow 10X or grow 100X with no deadline 'cause they're like, yeah, Q1, Q2, Q3, sure, but like ultimately it has to be this big, but it's all very like, okay, yes, that's great and like work on that project, but this thing comes into play like, hit it, go now. And in sport, that's not really what you do 'cause you have to always realign with, okay, but worlds are in two months. So one month out of worlds, we have to be here physically and technically and then two months out of worlds had to be here and you can't really deviate too much. So that was really tough. Like asking your leader like what the goal is or you know, crawling with your co-founder, like what your goals are, it's like, well our goals are to grow and like, okay, so like tomorrow or so it's just, you have to really understand and be comfortable being super uncomfortable with that 'cause it's very uncomfortable. Speaking of sitting in the discomfort, so you mentioned a new job, you've shifted industries, how is this transition going? What are you doing now? - So I, I'm currently working in AI and GNAA, I am amazed by the business that I'm in and the people that I work with. It is a, I guess it's kind of a nine to five job but it really isn't 'cause it's like, I am the first business development rep for this company. So yes, I'm in sales, but it's not what I thought sales was which is really different to me 'cause I thought sales was like cold call DMs, go go go, da da da da outbound follow up that kind of stuff, which yes it is, but it's hard to describe because it's like they're all engineers. So everyone that I work with is an engineer. I am not an engineer. I don't speak the language of the engineer, but I love what they're doing and I love what they've created because I see the value in it and I see the speed of which it's needed and I see the direct impact that it's given to all of the clients. And so I'm in this position where I get to see this be implemented in a way that I understand even though the actual thing, the platform itself, way over my head. But what it does, I'm like, oh my gosh, oh this is amazing. And so I actually, when I made the transition, it was because this really excited me in the sense that it was something that was so far above my head, I knew I would have to do so much work to understand but I got excited by that because I was like, oh fun new challenge. This is really insane. - You talked about the ways that athletes set goals for themselves when they're in sport. What are some of the goals that you've got for yourself now? - Oh gosh, countless. And I have a bunch of different goals on my goals and board over there as one does. But my goals right now are very much split between personal life and professional life. I think athletes, when they're competing, we lose touch with our personal life a lot because it's hard to make time. So right now, like I really am going back. My parents, like I mentioned, are quite a bit older and I have a brother who I'm very close with but he loves that one BC and my husband. So I'm really spending a lot of time with my family and with my friends because they're very important to me and I have not spent time with them at all the past 10 years. And it's kind of changing who I am as a person. Like I kind of forgot the person that I was with them and it's a lot softer. Like it's a soft Jenny and I'm like, who is this? But then I get my job where I'm like, okay, I get to be like competitive Jenny. Like go Jenny, go. And so it's a fine balance. And so I have the goals of the classic going up the chain of my career. But the biggest thing that I'm trying to do is like the silliness of, okay, am I better today than I was yesterday? Okay, did today, did I accomplish what I wanted to do? No, most of the days it's a no. And so am I writing my reasons why and am I trying to be up a degree? Assalamu'alaikum, whatever you want to call it, better tomorrow. How have you figured out what to do physically? What you're going to engage in? Well, you're going to focus your training. I'm doing, so right now I'm training for a 10K. I did triathlon before. And I had been doing triathlons. I was loving it. I was working with a coach. Greg, he was great. And then now I'm looking at 10Ks, I'm getting back into running and I'm like, "Ooh, where is this going to go?" I would like to get back to triathlons, have my bike there when probably I've seen. And gosh, you already know. I'm looking at a hierarchy, thinking to myself, like, "Groi, give it to me Rachel." Like that to me sounds really appealing. I guess he's awesome. I love it a lot. That's awesome. We have covered a lot of ground here. Are there any final thoughts you want to leave our listeners with? If anything I've said resonates with you, please know I'm an open book. If you don't have someone in your life and you just want someone to talk to, to, that lend an ear or hand or advice, like please no, I'm here. And there's a lot of athletes, I'm not alone. Like there's so many athletes who go through everything that I've gone through. And I have to say like it doesn't, and I've said this before, and I get kind of like a weird look, but it doesn't matter if you've only made it to whatever you think you've only made it to, like never saw yourself short. And so if you feel like you're resonating with things that I've said, but you're like, but I didn't go to the Olympics. Like no, did you give your heart and soul to something? Did you commit every part of you to something and achieve the goal that you had in front of you? Yes, okay, then we can relate on a lot of things because that's essentially what I did. I just was fortunate in the circumstance that allowed me to get to where I got. And I think that's the most important lesson is like, because you didn't make the Olympics, or you didn't make the Olympics, it doesn't make you into who you are. It's more so the path that got you to the goal that you wanted to get to is who made you who you are. And that's the connection part between people. And I think that journey is what we should be talking about rather than how far you got really. We talk about this a lot that no matter what sport you played, the one guarantee in sport is that you will, at some point, have to step away from playing at that highest level, whatever that highest level was for you. And that shift can be really, really tough, especially if you're not talking to someone. Yeah. If what you're saying resonates with our listeners, how can they find you? Oh, well, anywhere, really? Well, I'm on Instagram. I'm not very active on Instagram. I try to be a little bit better. LinkedIn, if you're all LinkedIn, definitely there. Or email, you can just shoot me an email. I'm really good with that. Anyway, you want to reach out. I will answer your DMs if you do want to do that on Instagram. But yeah, my biggest thing is just don't hesitate. I love helping the next generation of young athletes, young adults, and I can't agree more that transition is so hard. It's so tough. It hurts so badly and for so long. So please just never, never hesitate to grab someone's hand or shoulder. Awesome. We'll put links to all your social, socials in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. And to all of our listeners, as my grandmother used to say, go leave things just a little bit better than you found them. Until next time. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING]