109: Paper Straws with Jim Gaffigan | Soder Podcast | EP 107

Bookstores are like the opposite of liquor stores, right? You go to a bookstore to enrich your life. There's even a self-help section. But liquor stores, like an enormous self-destruct section. They might as well greet people. How can I help you? Are you looking for your wife to leave you or just lose your job? Both. We've got just a thing. It's called Fireball. Stealing road signs brings you back to a feeling that you can't get that high off a weed or alcohol. There is, you know, I have my son, one of my, one of my son's stole a traffic sign. And I was like, what the? And you know, you forget. It's a suicide. And he was, and what he did, he just turned around and he goes, where'd you get this? And I was like, no, it was actually a sign that's hanging in my kid's bathroom. Really? Yeah. And I told him that I had, I had just stolen it. Yeah. But that high of going and taking it, I mean, my forties, I drove away from that, pull off into those houses. And I was like, what is this 19-year-old son of the life? It's also designed. Yeah. It's designed. But when you get divorced, she's going to throw it out. Oh, she'll burn it. She'll burn it. She'll go, that piece of shit I should have known. I watched The Bourbon Special. Oh, thank you. You know what's fun about watching an hour of comedy about a thing that killed most of your family? Is it feels like, if we were in a, if we were in a trial, yeah, and someone annihilated my family, right? Like, if I was sleeping in the basement, they didn't find me, but they killed everyone else. And I was like, if I was watching a great defense of that, where are you going? Oh, that's so-- You go, I love this lawyer. You know what I mean? I would go, like, they are the points he's making are fantastic. Maybe my family should have been murdered. You know, because when I was writing all this material, I was like, because I resented, you know, my dad's drinking when I was a kid. So your dad did drink when you were a kid? He did. He did. But like, there's also some of it is this, I feel like either I've gotten to the point where, you know, I mean, I also, you know, I used to have a material about not drinking. Yeah. And then I, and then I would drink, I would only drink beer because I didn't want to get it out of control. And then when I'm sitting there compiling this set, I'm like, all right, how many jokes can I do about my impending alcoholism? Like, you know, yeah, you're predicting the future. You go, let me get ahead of this. So I look like a genius. Yes. That's actually brilliant, but also what I realized is there is, we, we, you know, like, it's not just my denial. Like I think even from a society standpoint, even the addiction that we feel with that exists with our phones, that's destroying teenagers, I think the way sports has embraced gambling is insane. It's funny because you bring that stuff up to people and they get very like, I don't want to be the nerd. I remember growing up and loving, you know, I was born in the early 80s. So I was a child that watched Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Willis, all those action movies where they would just kill a ton of people, then have a line. And I always, when Tipper Gore came out, it did parental advisory. Yeah. I was right at that age. I was maybe like 11, where if they're like, they're trying to silence us and you're just like 11 years old in the suburbs. I'm not being silenced at all, but I'm like, fuck Tipper Gore, parental advisory. You parents just don't understand, right, then you get older and you go, senseless violence might have a cause in our society. Like you're seeing like the amounts of mass shootings and you go, maybe we shouldn't have had all those movies where there was like killing 20 people and going suck on that, Mr. Peter. Well, I feel like, no, I feel like the gambling thing, it's not going to end well. Like those, those, you're not going to end up with a bunch of millionaires. No, it's like the house always wins always, but also it's going to eventually, I mean, these vulnerable players are going, you know, like if someone has a big, it, I'm surprised there isn't a movie about this like it's like, I've got, you know, the, the, the, the, let's say, I don't know basketball that well, but let's say, I've got the Pacers to win game four. Sure. Well, you know, the thing is, is that they're probably not going to win game four unless we Nancy Kerrigan player. And that's what's going to happen. I'll tell you, you know, by the way, I should probably say it should be Tanya Harding, not Nancy Kerrigan. Nancy Kerrigan and, and shout out to my friend and sixth grade who did the funniest impression of her. I've ever heard of my life that got me in trouble in school where he's going, why, why, why? December 5th. That's a Friday, Vancouver, Canada. I am going to be there. It's close to sold out, but we're at the Vogue theater Saturday, December 6th, Eugene Oregon. I know it's the big 10 championship. I hope your Oregon ducks are doing great off chance they're not or the games earlier in the day. Why don't you come to the McDonald theater in Eugene, Oregon. December 13th, Royal Oak Michigan, Royal Oak Theater. I'm coming back, baby. I'm very excited. It's the last show of the year. We're going to have a hell of a time. December 13th, Royal Oak Michigan, dancoder.com for tickets. Don't, don't fuss around with those other websites. Go to dancoder.com, get your tickets from there, and I'll see you in Royal Oak. You know, the, this original point of addiction is spreading in our society in so many mixed up the ways as someone that grew up, you know, you grew up with the dad that drank. I grew up around, my parents drank, my, my mom wasn't bad, but my, she drank, everyone around me drank. Her both of her parents were alcoholics, and to accept that was like accepting a gay child in the 60s. It was like, they didn't want to accept the fact that they were alcoholics. Right. They're like, that alcoholics? Yeah. It was fucking drinking. Yeah. Well, it is like funny that you're riding these bits and you go, I have to, let me cut myself off at the pass. Yes, I have to, you know, there has to be some self-awareness in this, but like this whole, this whole bourbon set was, I knew when I, when I kind of dove into it that it was totally a, a niche thing that it wasn't for everyone, but I can I say that I enjoy, I'm learning that I love, this is, this is a weird take. I love one subject dedicated stand-up thing. Colin Quinn does it perfectly with unconstitutional New York story, how he takes one subject and burrows into it. That's what I liked about this, because there's offshoots that you went into that were just like, dude, the liquor store, as someone whose dad worked in a liquor store, top the bottom you nailed it. Oh, thank you. That's a sign of why don't we make it the back, I was like, dude, that's exactly how it feels, and it, what's crazy about working in a liquor store is you see everyone that drinks and you realize everyone drinks. Yeah. Like my dad used to open, there was a, the name thing is great too, can I just say as someone that lived in Astoria for 15 years, the fact that you brought up city slickers on 21st, is it the one on 21st Street in Astoria, Queens? Yes. I used to drive by that every night home from the comedy clubs and I would laugh when someone would be giving me a ride and we'd take 21st off the bridge. Well Christian Finnegan and Ted Alexander when I was doing that bit, both brought it up to me. Yeah. And I was like, I don't even know a little bit of story or like city slickers and your punchline on it's great. But I do like, when you said that, it was like, it's how I imagine when people listen to the podcast and I talk about Denver stuff and I'll be like, I was driving by Parker and Quincy. I was right there, they're like, I was watching your special and I was like, city slickers, I know 21st Street. I feel seen. Yeah. And but all that liquor store stuff made me go like, oh my God, this is perfect. Oh, thanks. Because the people, the thing that my dad worked at a liquor store called Dan's Lickers. Dan's. Which I thought was because he loved me. Yeah. But it was because he was an alcoholic. Was he named Dan? No, I'm Dan. I know. I was like, Gary. Okay. That's right. I'm just working at Dan's Lickers in Mill Valley and it ended up being where I would go in the summer and hang out. I would just like hang out at the liquor store and there's like stuff around it like the auto mechanic in the back and there was like an arcade close by. But watching people come into a liquor store is fascinating. I mean, I, you know, I'm totally into the bourbon whiskey world and it's just such a weird business that has yet to be a retail experience that has yet to be ruined by online shopping. Yeah. Like you can buy booze online but like you can't do like Amazon. No. So you have to and it's also one of those retail shops where I love, you know, there's a lot of topics that I couldn't get but I love how people that work in liquor stores, you know, it's not necessarily required that they're polite. I mean, I would actually say it's a benefit to them if they aren't. Yeah. Because they're going to see crazy shit. Well, they have to process that. You know, that I think I was in a liquor store in Rhode Island. I saw this woman deal with this person. She's like, you got your pint or whatever. You got your bottle, now you have to leave. Yeah. And she's just babysitting this mentally ill guy. Well, because also the thing about booze, like any, any kind of like substance, is you get excited getting it. Oh, yeah. So there's an excitement, the ritual. Yeah. You get excited and you like, he got his pint and he was like, hang out though. Yeah, you're not going to hang out. I'm about to get fucked up. I need someone to hear my story. Yeah, like I need to talk to you. And she goes, I'm on a nine hour day. Yes. I'm getting 7.50 an hour. Yes, it's definitely. And I got my hand on a broken bat, like a chopped off bat that I could fucking break your hand with. I would watch my dad, that was one of the first instances I saw at my dad at someone being negative towards homeless people for a correct reason. Oh, that's so interesting. We would open the liquor store. And it would open it around 7, 730. So those were always the first people to buy like the cheap vodka so that they could survive on the streets. So they can get to like 3 p.m. But I'm like a seven year old and I'm like, the men sleep outside. That's bad. And then they come in and they're like, oh, my dad's like, get your fucking booze and get the fuck out of here. And then they leave and he goes, you want to drop the cigarettes in the thing at the top that came down. That was my favorite thing to do. Was turn on the open sign and put the cigarettes in the shoot. There is a social equality in liquor stores, right? Well, everyone's coming to get their poison. Yeah, everyone's coming to get their thing. But my point is that what humans live in denial of is that the poison, if you stop drinking, the poison will go away. But my point, as someone who is a compulsive eater and as somebody who is a compulsive stand-up, like by the way, being a comedian is an addiction. Going in front of people and asking for adoration in approval is not, if I said this on my HBO special but it's true, if I was balanced, I would just be the funniest guy at Enterprise. I would just be a manager at an enterprise right now and being like, yeah, sometimes I make my co-workers laugh a lot. But instead, someone, my hose is crunched and so the water is shooting out weird. So every night I go, you guys ever think about this? I think about this. Is this okay to think about this? And it is compulsion. It's also why a lot of comics go through drinking phases or start really heavy boosers and become better comics when they quit, I'll let you list. And a lot of guys that I know that stop and then they go, oh, that was, I got into comedy 'cause I love comedy but I love drinking. - It's so funny 'cause like that, your whole age group of comedians, 'cause when I was putting out father time, I would reach out to all these comedians and I was like, hey, I wanna send you a bottle and then what was very apparent is at least half of 'em were like, I know, at least half of 'em were in the Malaney thing. Like, I'd rather not have that bottle. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, it's like-- - They did a gift thing on billions. - Yeah. - And billions is like the biggest production I've ever been a part of, it was awesome. It was really cool. But at the end of the year, they had this, fuck what was the liquor brand that they, they had like a sponsorship with this wisdom. And at the end, you'd go in on your rap, on your last day of filming, you'd go on your trailer and there'd just be a bottle of whiskey. Like in there and you're like, what are you doing? But you guys don't know me. - But it's also like heroin, it's like a $300 bottle. - It's crazy. - I gave it, my father-in-law and my brother-in-law drank it when we bought it and my father-in-law was like, this is the shit. And you're like, yeah, it's real good stuff. But my point is like, it's funny, they just left it in a room where I was alone, in a trailer, where I was alone, where you're like, I could've locked the door and became, came out of different places. - There were stories of comedians going up to Montreal. I probably shouldn't say the name. - We'll keep the names out. - Where they went to Montreal, they had to remove the minibars. - Oh yeah. - Because they couldn't even have the minibar in the room because it was too tempting. - If you drink and you think you might have a problem, watch the movie "Flight" with Denzel Washington. - Oh yeah. - If it makes you feel weird. - He landed the plane upside down. (laughs) He goes, I'm good for another 20 years or very good. But if that movie in any way makes you feel uncomfortable, look into your drinking. 'Cause there was the moment where the minibar just banging, and he opens the door. And I was like, oh, I felt like. - And so-- - At least in the first five years. - So do you intentionally not stay in hotels? - I don't care now, I'm past it now. There does become a time where I just know, also I'm not sober, I smoke weed. - Okay. - It goes somewhere. This is the point where I make it. - That's the thing. I have friends that were, I have a friend that was a sex addict, stopped being a sex addict and became an alcoholic. Quit an alcoholic and then became a compulsive eater. And you're like, it's like that bug's bunny where he's just sticking his finger in the dyke and it's like sprouting out somewhere else. - No, it is. - And by the way, it's the human condition. I think it's the human condition. And I think it's also the arrogance of human society to think that which crazy is it. I think it's even stuff like having LeBron in a Draft Kings commercial. Where you go, I'm a pro wrestling fan and I believe in the mixture of k-fabe in real life. It makes the stories better. Where you go, oh, I might be real. These guys might have a problem. I wanna watch this match, but it ruins sports because you go, so you're into gambling? Well, how much are you into gambling? Well, should I worry? Should I not gamble on your games? What the fuck is going on? - Well, it's, when I started stand up, there used to be you could do a lot of commercials. - Oh, that was like the way in. - Right, you'd make a living in commercials, but there was a certain thing where you'd be like, you know, like there'd be international cigarette ads and you're like, all right, I'm not gonna do cigarette ads, I'm not gonna, like there's obvious ones, like I'm not gonna do Rogaine or like diarrhea or something like that. - I'll do both of those by the way. - Yeah, as a hair transplant and who constantly diarrhea's, I'm in for both. But like, obviously I'm exaggerating. - Yeah, that. - But like, there used to be this kind of like, what's in poor taste? You know, like, what do you, you know what it was? It's just a high threshold for shame. Where you're like, you don't feel any shame about that? And then you would have to look at your family and the eye. - And that's my whole thing. It's like, society is broken. Like, how many benefits did you do for the legalization of pot? Like, it used to be once a quarter. - Yeah, do you know how normal would reach out? - You know, like, we got it. - And then you wanna do a show and you go, and then I was go, it's four 20 friendly. - Yeah, and it's like, it's like, it's like, we're trying to help out. And I was like, and intellectually, I understand all the argument. And I also emotionally had hoped that New York City, this brilliant home of commerce, the financial capital of the world, they would at least tax it. - Yeah. - And with those taxes, they could sit there and get some kind of program where they could regulate it. But like, it's like, and I don't, you know, I don't really care of, you know, my joke is like, you know, it's great raising kids in New York City 'cause you can't walk a block without smelling weed. - I mean, it, by the way, that got turned on though. That got turned on by Colorado doing it the right way. Colorado in 2014, because it's a purple state, where you have very blue big cities and then you have very red rural areas, how they got it to work was. They said, okay, we're gonna tax it at this level. And 25%, I forget what the actual numbers were, are going to schools and roads. And so it goes, and then they had like, dude, in 2015, they had the excess of like, 127 million dollars in taxes, close to marijuana sales. - Yes. - And you go, well then, I better never feel a bump on I-75 when I'm in Colorado. Or 225 better be smooth as fuck. - And you know, the thing is, it's like, but I don't get a sense that that's what happened in New York. - Well, New York City was selling like, as a weed smoker that stayed away from it. I bring my weed in. I don't buy, like, I won't go to it dispensary. I have started recently, but forever, I would bring, 'cause flying is no big deal. They don't give a shit. And you go to, like, the West Coast. The way that New Yorkers talk about pizza and bagels, where they go, it's the water. I don't know what it is. You go to the fucking California. It can't get a decent slice. As someone that's from Colorado, hey, New York, your weed is ass. I don't know if it's the water or the soil, but it sucks. You go to the West Coast, and you go, this is fucking fun. - No. - And when you say good, is it on a power level? - Or is it like water? - Well, now they've learned how to super it up. So it can be super powerful. I'm talking about finding a weed, like you smoke it and it's pleasant. And you just go like, I feel great. Kind of like the way Kentucky does with bourbon. Where there's just, like, these certain areas. And I'll tell you, California, Colorado, in the Pacific Northwest, just do marijuana better. It's 'cause of the climate, how everything's grown. But you come to New York, and it just feels like, - Oh, you're right. - It feels stepped on, it feels very like, yo, you wanna shower? and you're like, "I hate to do this to you in New York. "You're the best in a lot of things. "Marijuana's not even close to the top." - I, you know, I, I get mad and I know people will get mad and come for me. - You do, you better come to our shop. - Yeah, I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna give you schizophrenia. - Fuck a soda, I don't want that. - I don't want the schizophrenia. I've done all the mind-bending drugs. I want a pleasant, like sometimes you can smoke weed that you buy here and it feels like when you drink cheap bourbon, you can like taste that it's been like, what is this, this is good. I think you smoke good shit and you go, "Oh, it just feels like I smoked a plant." - Oh, that's nice. - And that's what you want. - Now I want to smoke pot. - See, but by the way, I would have had this energy towards, I did have this energy towards alcohol. - Yeah. - I were, I was the Guinness brand ambassador. - Oh wow. - So I had to go around talking about Guinness for so many years. In a way of like friendly adorns, liquor reps. - Yeah. - Which are a special breed of hell that you probably have to deal with. By the way, one of my best friends is liquor rep and I love him to death. But there are guys in that business that. - No, well, I love the whole, 'cause I dove into the whiskey world. And you know, some of it is like, I was interested in it anyway. But like, it's all self-assignment. So you sit there, it's like people think like, "Oh, does Netflix come and knock on your door and say, "Hey, in six months we want a special?" No, they don't. - Yeah, you gotta go fight them. - You gotta go do it, you know, and then they'll see it. So it's all self-assignment. Even from this, that's where like the audacity of a comedian to just go on stage is pretty bizarre. Right? It just doesn't make sense at all. - Fermenting anything is bizarre. It's in the same realm, you know what I mean? It's the self-starter. It's the exact same thing you were saying about. It's a self-assignment for standup. With bourbon, it's the thought of like, that's why I always knew that it's like a human condition thing when you find out guys get good at making prison wine. - Oh yeah. - And you go, "Yeah, I would get good at fermenting shit if I had to live in a cell." - And, you know, obviously men and women, but like the whiskey world, the whiskey nerds, how they, you know, some of it, obviously alcoholism is a very serious thing. But what hopefully identify in the bourbon set is that there's another level, which is a geekdom that is separate from the fact that it's a poison that, you know, I'm always crippled in an entire island. - You know how you're talking about how like, society is broken in every way. These are one of those broken things where it goes, "Yeah, but I'm a die-hull hard football fan." And I watch these hits at home eating snacks and I go, "Ooh!" And this guy's got brain damage now. So you can separate yourself from the fact that you go, "Well, I know this is bad, but I like it." You know what I mean? It's like, there is like this, I think what has happened is this complete bailing on accountability. This like bailing on like, "Yeah, I know, I know that kind of sucks." - It is interesting. - I kind of think these things. - Like there was a good, they had like a decade where people were like, "This is incredibly dangerous." Look at Jim McMahon, what has happened? And now people are like, "Yeah, well, that's the cost of this." - God, no, this is gonna say the cost of business. And there really is a lot of that in everything where there's an abdication of responsibility. - You know what else they're doing it with? Plastics and water. Where they go, "Hey man, sorry, you got a spoon in your brain now." - There you go. - No accountability at all. - No. - Now we're trying, maybe move the different kind of. - But we also are all guilty of it. Like when we're microwaved something in plastic and we know we shouldn't, you're like, "Yeah, fuck, I don't want to put it on her paper." - Yeah. - I'm guilty of it. Just like anybody. I go, "Yeah, but it bottled the water so easy just to go." Like, can you grab me a bottle of water out of the fridge? - They gave up on that. We gotta get rid of all these bottles. Folks, we gotta get rid of all these bottles. And then it's like, "All right, we tried that, let's move on." - Strauss, too. Turtles made a real push. And then that was like, - What about the owls, the owls people? - That might have been a time to move on. - That might have been, if there ever was a right-wing turn on me, it would have been the Strauss for the turtles. 'Cause I was going like, - Plastic Strauss is the only thing that makes sense in this world. Yeah, and in all the worlds, all the shit that happens in this world, plastic Strauss, and when I went to fucking get a paper strainer and be like, "You piece of shit." It's just the cardboard from a toilet paper rule. - Yeah. - That unravels in my dreams. - And it tastes like the paper. - And you put it out, when you see the wood strut, the paper strut dancing in your fucking McDonald's. - You see all the color that die coming out of that? - Yeah, and it's like all unraveling, and it's doing nothing with its weird cardboard fingers. - Get the fuck out of my drink. - So what do you think? All right, now I wanna hear your predictions of what is the comedy boom, is it slowing down? - I'll tell you that as a fan. - Yeah. - I'm still a fan of stand-up, and I try to preserve that as much as I can. I still love this shit. I still love watching. It's not lost on me that I, that part is, and that sounds like some corny fucking award, speech acceptance speech, but it's the truth. - I'm just like, - It's a fan. - I just love it, man. It's like Dirk Diggler and Boogie Knight. He's like, "Let's just keep rockin' and roll." But it really is, I won't watch rock at the seller, I won't watch the seller, I won't watch these guys, 'cause I wanna see their specials. I don't wanna watch Louie, I don't wanna watch you. I don't wanna watch Bill Burr. I wanna see your hours, because I know you're at a point in your career, where you go, I know when it's done. I don't wanna go in the kitchen and watch you cook it. I just wanna sit at a table and have it put in front of me and go, "I love the way this guy cooks." That's just, that genuinely is what I do, and I'll tell you as, "I'm a fan of standup," it's overexposed, it's overexposed, and that's why we had, we had a deal, we were gonna do a thing on the podcast, where if we talked to Inside Baseball, he was gonna taser me. - Oh, that's so interesting. - But I bought a taser and I bought one that was too big and it'll give me a cardiac arrest. So, if you have any ideas of how we can go around this comment, go off in the comments. But, it's kind of what you're talking about about the shame of doing too many commercials. I think comics were going like, "Oh, we're making money doing podcasts, "we're making money doing standup." I think the reversal of it, and I felt this way watching your special. Teach for America needs to start taking standup comedians and making them be public educators for two years in one subject. So, like the way you learned about bourbon, like I'll go learn about the War of 1812, I mean, there are a lot of comedians with history. - Shane's got a history degree. - Yeah, well, also, Yannis and Colin Quinn, there's all these guys that I know. But if you put us, you go, you know what? You get that theater tour. It's the most money you'll ever make in your life. And then the next year, you're in New Orleans in the ninth Ward, teaching the War of 1812. But, standup rules. - Yeah. - So, you get to be funny. So, you get to make these kids laugh while you're teaching them. And also, they get out of line, it's heckler rules. So, you get to go sit around. You can't even read at a fourth grade level. Look at this fucking idiot. It's fucking idiot, sucks his thumb. Look at this guy. Caught you sucking your thumb twice. And then you heckle him. So, they're in it. But that's how, I think this is how we're gonna fix the education system. Is you gotta take two rich Kevin Hartz, I'm like, all right, man. Now, here's what happened at Selma. - And he's like, "Hey, what's that?" - "Hey, what's that?" "Are you corny now?" He's like, "I'll kill you." Yeah. I mean, there is something about, I mean, you know, I'm sure, let's talk about church. But like, you go to church and you're like, "Dude, what are you guys doing?" - Yeah, they're not, they're running an old playbook. It's like when you watch a, remember when colleges, your coaches kind of get age out of it. It's like, Joe Gibbs was really good and then it's just like, "Come on." It's like when you watched, up until recently, like, a team run, like, just the option. And you know, "Whoa, whoa, whoa." Guys, they've learned how to stop that. - There's three different ways you can go on it. - That's what I need. I grew up watching Colorado version of Nebraska. And Nebraska would go, "Dup, dup, dup, dup, dup." They do like a three-card Monty, where I handed the ball. I thought, "Damn, I gave it to him and it worked." And they won fucking national championships and then everyone went, "Oh, well, and I'll just get like a big safety to play linebacker." And then he can just follow your die and now he can fuck that shit up. And it's kind of like, "That's what happens." It's, the church is running the old program. - Yeah. - They're going like, "We're not going to drop back." - Everyone's like, "These people should have wives." They should have somewhere for their semen to go. - Yes. - And they go, "That's crazy, shut your mouth." - And you're like, "I'm just trying to modify your system." - Like, I think that, you know, I'm, you know, just talking to my ass here. But like, I think-- - That's what all podcasting is. - I do think that comedy from when I started has evolved so much and because of, obviously, the internet, but even cable TV. So like, the fact that people can find their comic or a handful of comics that they enjoy, like, it can't contract back. - No, you can't. - All the way back. Now, people can, you know, people can lose, you know, momentum. You know, like, people can be arena acts and then it disappears. But like, comedy itself. So once people get it, 'cause, you know, Seinfeld says this. It's like, going through a comedy show is a better bet than seeing a movie. - Yeah, 'cause you can do your research in a way where you go. You know a movie there might be a director that you like but he could have a miss but you can't trust the reviews It also means with all this standup. Yeah, if someone doesn't like you I've seen a lot of you The sample size has been tested someone doesn't like me. I go. Hey, there's enough out there We're God bless you. Yeah, and I think that is something where it's like that's an accountability that comics don't take Yeah, we're quick to go their bots. They're not and I go. I'm like I still have the part of my brain that goes They might be right. I might suck it. Yes, of course But that's also I think what's good for anyone that's a performer is you it's like Bill Burry's to have this great thing Where he was like you want 80% of the audience to love you and 20% of the audience to not like you really? Yeah, I was like a thing used to say it and I understood why it's because like you can get lost in that 20% and go like Why am I not making you ask and you're ignoring 80% that's going like this is the best But you got to acknowledge that 20% yeah, you have to acknowledge that we're not making them. I'm not making a bold enough choice Yeah, if also if you're doing a hundred percent Some yeah, no, well, I also think you you have to I Think of like any friendship. There has to be Because I believe that stand-up comedy even though I know that there is the fandom thing and all that I Think it's much more of a peer group thing that people like your stand-up So therefore I think you know similar to a friendship you have to constantly be challenging you can't have the same Conversation with someone so like you know, it's like the great crime and you know people say like, oh, you know It's just the same material every hour. It's not if if if it is there's and I'm not saying that that some people might want to just see the same stuff but I think most Evolving friendships you have the same roots, but you're not having the same conversation you might have a nostalgic moment Sure, but like even when we were talking about friends some of it is It's not like if you're giving shit to each other. It's not the exact same joke. No, it's actually what makes it better is Other stuff happens and you take that friendship and you talk about that thing You know, I've been friends with the same group of guys since high school. Yeah, we're all similar But we're not the same right our friendships are all similar when we just got together like last month Because we hadn't seen each other in a while and it was like the hang felt if it wasn't the same hang We weren't talking about shit from 2003. We're like sitting there. Everyone's got families now and everyone's talking about shit But there is still the same angles and elements. We're making fun of certain friends there buss and balls I brought a comedy thing. I was hot on like a comedy thing and this is why it's important to have Friendships that go a long time. I brought a comedy thing that I was mad about and I I'm used to like talking to comics We'll be like yeah, fuck that bad fuck that shit and I told my friends and they went What are you what are we supposed to be mad about and you're like you say it out loud and you go oh this is lame as hell Like I remember being on the phone with my friend who has twin daughters and they're just in the background screeching like hawks just like Yeah, and he's and I'm like going off about how I had a bad show and he's like yeah, yeah, yeah, and he goes Get down. Stop doing that. Yeah, sorry your school shooting joke didn't work out It was like he came back to something in your life. Yeah, what do I what am I thinking the important there's there's the moments of you can have Conversations that you can't you can't sit there and explain. It's like it's not that you're rooting against this person The injustice here is that this person did this joke and some of it is just the zeitgeist caught on sure and they're like You're doing what you love, right? Yeah, it's I think like that should be the I think that's like if I could give every comedian a pill of something It would be a pill like a realization pill that they're like oh, I remember going to open mics and just like waiting like I love When I was coming up and hearing those stories about you at your job showing up at an open mic and a suit and then like But also the access calling when I used to open for colony and always be like yeah your generations doomed you guys know too much about stand-up He's like there was this element of not knowing it and then you work and discover it because I would sit down and be like so You did this special and I because I grew up like a fan like yeah, yeah, you know even this talking to you right now You know me times Joe lists and I quote your heat joke from your comedy central presents. I want to talk about it now Yeah, it's like I've said that punchline in my life more like a catchphrase like but I want to talk like I just watched alien earth And everyone's like yeah, I came up months ago. I want to talk about it now. Yeah, but it is like that's I think to me is like What you were saying with the peer group I found my friends and shit that I liked with people that like stand up Yeah, cuz it was all this thing that you go like she is guys joke this guy did it like this and yeah And list was one of my first friends when I moved here that we would quote the Seinfeld documentary comedian to each other yeah, and he was like oh you're into it And then he would he got me into region. I like reading, but he got me like into region and it would be like Oh, what about this guy and it becomes like bands where you're like you haven't heard this guy if you like this Yeah, yeah, you would get like a dude. I'd get a burnt my friend Trent Cole would give me a burnt Stanhope a CD R from Stanhope and some fucking random ass like Vegas show And I would listen to it and be like this is the best. Yeah, you I remember buying a Lenny Bruce album and being like I don't get it. Yeah, and then feeling like my dumb and my dumb and it's like and you know what it's It's so interesting because then if you listen to the Lenny thing at a different time you'd be like oh wow This is I bet if I listen to Lyma Ohio right now. I would be like oh, I get it Yeah, but when I was in my 20s, but you know what I liked in my 20s was Bill Hicks Going like the government's fucking yeah, like that is what was crazy is I remember when I started I started in Arizona in 2004 and when I moved here at that time there was a lot of open micers trying to be either daincook or Doug Stanhope That was my you got you saw like hot guys doing over Exaggerated movements. Yeah, and you saw guys look like school shooters. Yeah going up there with a notepad being like War in Iraq is it right you know and you'd go like oh 20 years from now you might be able to do these jokes not right now Yeah, why are you guys are mics to fucking 9/11 bits that would fucking bomb worse than the towers. It was so fucking wild dude It's I remember seeing Because when I started with Gerardo. Yeah, it's so funny because Gerardo wanted to be He wanted to be Brian Riegan. I wanted to be a tell really. Yes Crazy to me because if I were to put that puzzle. Yeah, and then it and what's what made it switch some of it is you know, you have to and You know, I know authenticity's used a lot. It's like what is real for you. Yeah, what can you do so in other words? It's you know and and what are the opportunities? So the you know Greg Greg and I at open mics. Yeah, here's where the law firm and you are and you were working at your job Yeah, and so like but it was this I would say your class was our our favorite like yeah, you're what we latched on do and across a river I still listen to it once a year. Yeah, and so it was just So he wanted to be like Regan. He wanted to be like lucky and light. Not the I mean, well some of it is like You know it by the way if you could like Brian Regan live in a theater and by the way in a comedy club is Like still one of the most amazing things you're not your reminds me of his BB King It's just like BB King up until the day he died They'd be like go into a room and watch him perform. Yeah, he'll blow your fucking head up like yeah, he'll blow your wig back And so like the whole thing with but like a tell it was this sheer like the stuff that a tell would do because he would go on every night With at least five new minutes. Yeah, and he would never do those drugs again And people would be like a comedian. So be like I'll take those I remember Mike D. Stefano. Yeah, we had a show at Carolina. I was just like I'll open my car hanging out on the on the peripheral but Mike D. Stefano so cigarette in the bathroom at Caroline's he goes I'm telling you I'm waiting for an accident Because if a tell goes down I'm taking all those jokes. He doesn't use it to sell her and I got a new hour It's just so like he was just very like matter of fact about it He goes I'm waiting for an accident because there's about an hour that he doesn't fucking touch that everybody wants It's so I know it's interesting is because stylistically you're right out swaps. Yeah, but Now that I'm thinking about Draldo bits there are Regan inspired deliveries The Yomonica you got AIDS yo where he's like is that how bad our and then it comes down to like a Greg where it's very smart Like is that how bad a health care system is and then he goes big and like but I don't know Yeah, yeah, I could see that and you know some of I mean It was very interesting when Greg because now the roast thing is totally You know like totally standard and also just like premium, but there There was a time when it was just this kind of niche thing that Jeff Ross or Jeff Liftshalts at the time was doing. And it was one of the- Like at the Friars Club. It was a very unique thing, but he kind of propelled it, obviously, to make it huge. And now it's this standard bear, right? When Gerardo was doing it, there was a little bit, I was like, I was like, that's interesting. And it wasn't a snobby thing, it was just kind of, but it was such a great outlet for him. Because he was obviously the killer, you know, my god, Nicky and Amy got a breakthrough on there too. Nicky's fantastic. That roasts, yes. But Gerardo was the guy where like every roast you were like, I'm excited to see his set. Jeff Ross- And he was not a put down comment, you know what I mean? And when you watch his stand up, and it's so different from the roasts, and obviously like, you know, he's friends with Jesse Joyce who I love, fantastic comic, and a guy that helped him with those roasts, Joe. And what it was interesting is, especially with my generation of comedy, you're like talking about how it was this odd thing, roast battling got huge for a couple of years, and I would always compare it to the dunk competition where you're like, it's like slam dunking, where you're like, it's so cool when guys can do it, but that does not necessarily translate to them being good at basketball. So there are guys, and so it's interesting because Gerardo was like a guy who was good at basketball that could just fucking win the dunk competition every year at the NBA All-Star game. And you're like, oh, but it is, that's the closest analogy I can find. Where it was like, people were doing it, but in ways where you go, well, it doesn't really seem efficient. And then like, now it's blended in to stand up so much that you know it's a part of it. I mean, it was the number one thing that's that Tom Brady thing. Yeah, Tom Brady thing was massive. It was like a massive, you know what's weird about that is it's one of the only things I've seen in the last 15 years that like a Seinfeld finale. People go like, you watch the Brady roast, like you brought back water cooler talk for like a week. There, I wonder is, you know, cause also looking at Tom Brady's face like he was like, this was a mistake. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And he did not like it. He's also a guy that has to have that kind of confidence or he's going to get killed. And why? Like he's got ideas. Did he do it? Fame? Because I think what happens is he gets big off football, well then football goes away and you're like, well, I want that light. Like how do you do it? Yeah. They go, how about the biggest event of all time and you go, we're going to have a bunch of dorks take a shot at you. And he's like fine. He goes, these are nerds. I don't care. Well, Tom, here's the thing. Your whole life, you've been fucking Victoria Secret Pussy and winning championships. These guys have been thinking about mean things to say to you, you know what I mean? But how do they, how do they, how do they, I'll do that. I mean, I remember even when they were doing the roast and they had like a Alec Baldwin, they had Donald Trump roast. Yeah. They had just everyone. What was it? It's like how did Martha Stewart was cheating get roasted, but she was on with Pam Anderson roast. And Anderson thing was huge, how, you know, I don't know, some of it is like also, I'm thrilled that it exists, but it's also like there's part of me. It's like, and I think that when Alec Baldwin did it, there was a big check written for a charity sort of get it. But I'm like, I don't know. Can I ask you this is like, I don't know if I want to do that. This is, this is talking, this is us taking accountability. Like they would never do that. I could, oh, be roasted or, you know, to, like when you guys were, like when we were, we had a roasted date at the Creek in the cave. But that's when it was fun. That was when it was different. That's when it was friends on friends and it was brutal. We did a Yannis Popus roast at the Creek. And there are jokes that I still think about. Microsine, it was right after Mike, these Stefano died and Chris, the Stefano was there and Microsine went, well, the wrong, these Stefano died and like it just in front of them. And then he went, Microsine's joke, he was like, you know, I love the Creek. But Rebecca Trent is a lot like Lennie Bruce. People tell you it's important, but then you listen to it and you go, I don't get it. He had, Joe Lists had one of my favorite, I still remember Joe Lists joke where he said, Yannis Popus puts on a dress and says the N word and is considered a comedic genius. In that case, my mother is a comedic genius and it was like, all these jokes, I remember Michael Chee bombed. Michael Chee was so hot at the time and he was, we were all friends. He was coming up to Creek, but he was like the new guy that was really killing and he didn't write and he went up there and was like, I had like a minute, a good shit and then everyone watched it and then it was like, boo, and it was so like a clubhouse. It just felt like, I mean, I don't even think it was half sold. It was like, all these people were there and there was barely like 20 people there. But we got a bucket of free ticates because Rebecca let us do the show and I remember us just like shitting on each other in very mean ways. But you saw who excelled and who didn't. I was never good at it. I don't know why. I think it's my, I want to be liked. So I have a hard time being mean to people unless I'm angry and I don't want to get angry for a show. Are you good at roasts? No. Because we both have the, there's one of the coolest things you ever said to me when I got off stage. I think it was like Gotham. I got off stage and you go, you and I have the same kind of white dude rage and I will call it like trailer rage and I'm like, yes, and you were walking away. There's something about, it's because I think that you have to retain a likability up there and like I think you can be like Lewis Black and Rant. He's a very likable guy and people are like, oh, he's this intellectual professor who's Ranting. He's like Bernie Sanders. But like, and you know, stand up can pull it off. But like there's some white guys. If they're angry, people are like, oh, shit, if you know what that's he's going to beat a woman. That's probably the explanation of why so many guys were trying to be stand up. It was because he was saying such smart shit. But with the air of a guy at a bar that you're waiting for your drink and he's telling you and you're gone. Oh, I didn't know they put that in the water. You go another round and you're like talking to him and you go, I'm not threatened by this guy. Right. I'm waiting for my drink. Yeah. But you're right. Certainly white guys. You get mad. You can pull it off. No. Where is great being angry on stage. Yeah. Well, Burr is like, it's, you know, it's like he's mastered a seemingly toxic statement. Yeah. And then he unravels it. Yeah. And he gets the majority of the audience, but there's some people that are still bitching and moaning. Yeah. I love it. It's a genius. It's Word Houdini. It's like Word Houdini. He's like, I'm going to put myself in this, in this strijack and dip myself in water. Women shouldn't vote. Yeah. That's okay. Get out of this. And they're like four minutes later. He's like, out he goes, that I see. You know what? It's like sometimes. Sometimes you'll see like Conan clips where a burr like back and when he was on the Conan's TBS show where it was obvious they'd called him and they're like, Bill, can you do Conan? He's like, yeah, I'll do it. And then they're like, so it'll be like someone. He just makes a choice. He's like, yeah. And I don't like Bill Gates. Yeah. No, I don't. He'll just go on and some of it is he's so smart. He can find an angle, but it's almost kind of like if he had waited a month, he would have found this perfect, clean thing. And but like he was so comfortable and so used to I think, like I think that his podcast was very instrumental in him kind of articulating ideas. I used to listen to all the time and he'd rant and I'd go like, yeah, that's the exact point. And that's why he does find stuff, because I remember the Bill Gates stuff, the thing that I always made me laugh, something that he pointed out that I never thought he was. And you know, he'd be eating a pretentious fruit, like a pear with no shoes on and you're like, it's exactly how I'd picture a pretentious, tech guy building a fall. Yeah. That's always my favorite thing. It was always like, when he would come to this seller, I would watch Shepel talk about places people were from in a way that was funnier than anybody I ever saw do it. I remember this guy was like, yeah, I'm from Singapore, and he's a poet, damn, so you landed and bought all the bubble gum, huh? And he did like a chop, and you're like, that's so smart. You need to know that it's illegal to chew bubble gum in Singapore. And he was doing it. And he was like, this act out that just, I was like me and three other people that like lost it. And I was like, that's the best, because he just is like, when you watch people do like their, like Nate used to call me and like bitch about something, and like six months later it'd be like a seven minute bit. It first happened where he was watching 60 minutes, and he's like, you know people are buying tigers? And I was like, no, and he's like, I mean, that's like worse than guns. And then the next thing you do is you see it, and you go, oh, that's fully fleshed out, like he talks and fully fleshed out bits. Christmas, he called me and he was like, my mom doesn't have grape jelly in the refrigerator. He's like, that's ridiculous. And I was like, it is ridiculous. Everybody has an old grape jelly in the refrigerator. And then it's on his special side. but it's and he's like I changed it to catch up but it's beat for beat. His point to these making to me in conversation. Which is which is back to our point where it is it's inspired by anger making it palatable. Whereas like for someone like you know Lewis Black he yells about it and it's the hyperbole of his reaction that works but for like white guys like me you and Nate we have to sit there and we have to find a comfortable thing where like like when Nate talks about his wife yeah it's like you know it's a finished bit yeah it's like but he's so smart and socially nimble yeah well he can go in between of you I know he loves his wife but he's frustrated and it only works and that's like me complaining about my kids it's like yeah if I wasn't present and I was like my these kids that I see once a year that wouldn't be as funny yeah as going like I see them a lot and I'm annoyed by them and yeah and that was kind of like was similar with like I had I even now have a bit about my grandmother but I had like multiple bits about my grandmother it's because like well I was helping to take care of her and all this stuff and I love her but I got but she does shit that makes me of course pretty angry I need to put this somewhere because this sucks and that's why this joke that I'm doing now about her dying it happened in real time and you do get to this age of doing stand-up where you go like this thing happened and my cousin Lisa was like this is gonna be a joke isn't it you're like oh 100% yeah oh well and then she saw me do it at the club as funny bone and she was like that's exactly how it happened yeah she was like I remember talking to him about it and this is exactly and you're like yeah because I was upset it came from a place of being upset angry sad yeah then sitting with it for a while and going like you know what I noticed about that and some of it is it's the anger thing but it's also the obsession thing because there was a moment where because my wife and I started drinking bourbon during the pandemic and then it came a point where I was doing material on it and she goes can't we just keep the bourbon just like that we have this moment why do you need to harvest everything Katie and I say kind of like Kanye West didn't you write that poem for Kim and then he was like I need that for the song you know what's funny is when during the pandemic yeah I was doing bonfire yeah sometimes I would bring up jokes at Katie and I she's hilarious that we would come up with in her house like bits like house bits yeah and she'd go can we keep the house bits oh that's it and I was like you know what that's very fair she's like it's funny sometimes it's also sometimes that's our stuff and then there's been times where I try house bits and they don't work out of the house yeah then you feel real down there you go oh fuck this is cutesy and fun with me and my wife I love that house bits that's a brilliant thing yeah I mean we just have a lot of house bits there are like bits that we do where we go well we'll like where we're at Thanksgiving with her family we'll like call back to our house bit no one else will get it because there's house bits and then there's there's there's there's road bits like you have bits with I have road bits like you'll be on the road with us and you're like Saigon and I go on the road together and we'll just like do a thing and you go that's a road bit and then you'll try to bring someone else in on the road and they go I don't get the bit yeah no we well you were here when we built it we were doing Daniel Simonson yeah who's brilliant oh my god I thought Daniel Simonson is brilliant yeah but for Saigon when I got high at our hotel and we're doing him saying backstreet boy lyrics and it was making us laugh in such a back of the bus going because I wanted that way is like you like like a white guy with anger oh my god he's so smart that he's like learned a different language to be angry in the fun anyway so funny like he's so got them vintage room yeah which is like there are rooms that that and I love Gotham and I love the stand but like that room upstairs in at the stand and Gotham's vintage room are not good for stand no but I do for eating they're good for like having a small private party yeah you're giving his speech and it'd be a post party for a wake yeah the one downstairs a Gotham you truly feel like you just took over the corner of a room where people are having a nice time it's and you know every comedian it's very familiar because you start in those rooms yeah but like but Daniel seeing him go on because it's so interactive and seeing these him doing this brilliant stuff and the audience not understanding it yeah and then him suppressing the annoyance with them and then climbing on board but like there's the the show bit that you know like when with Ted Alexandra like and Matt Owens who I open you know we I love bro I love they'll make you know like we'll get to the venue and Ted will be like this baby want a coffee and I'm like baby wants a coffee yeah that's it yeah it's always the fun stuff and it's like it's like a baby needs a sleeve because it's just like I've told to I've told the store before the podcast but it's true Shane when Shane used to go on the road with me we had a bit where he is like what's your fucked up thing he's like you're just like a nice guy you smoke too much weed that's like you're that's your thing he's like I don't believe that's your thing and then it was a running joke that I would go into cities and go under bridges and jack off homeless man and and then we did this voice where he'd go like oh hey buddy I was asleep what do it and then Shane and I were laugh were going like whoa hey hey slow down I'm about to lose it and so he made these other laugh and then I was taking this vacation and the video game Red Dead Redemption 2 came out and Shane calls me and he picks up and he's like dude have you paid played Red Dead Redemption 2 yet and I'm like no I'm on I'm gone I'm coming back next week and I'm gonna play it I bought it so I'll play it and he goes dude the main characters are homeless jerk off guy voice and I was like what do you mean he goes Arthur Morgan is our homeless jerk off guy voice and then you play the game he goes well down Joe sir I didn't and I was like it is I played it I called him I was like it is so it was like a road bit that became into like the zeit guys in a way that we're like Arthur Morgan is our homeless jerk off guy voice well hey buddy your hands are pretty cool we would do it we would do Bay Area rapper E 40 as a sex pest I don't know if you know who E 40 is a black guy with a very specific way of talking but he rhymes he goes oh my name is he 14 like the way he talks but we would have him doing like gross porn convention things where he's like oh I saw jenna jenna jamesson and I gave her a a dog made out of her hair and we're like oh we're doing like creeped out E 40 is the thing that we try to explain to other people and it just would like bomb in front of us where we go it's still a good bit yeah road bits and home bits house bits house bits road bits I like it you just you need them and by the way this would be but I work I when I was a waiter yeah I always had like three different bits with one of the runners one of the Mexican runners I convinced this girl he you know they'd be like they'd be like oh fuck it and then I went yes my sister and then he was like Francisco was like me now I'm so sorry I didn't know she was your sister I was like now fuck with you my sister and then he'd be like okay then at the rest of the time I'm like don't ask my sister and it'd be like our bit yeah where he'd be like tell your sister I love and then in 20 years he's going to cut to you and go that's my sister and you're like who the fuck are you I go get away from me I go I support him I just melt down and you're not eating me all right what is going to happen what is America going to look like in six months six months who fucking knows I don't even know I do feel in the next 10 years we will see important people get elected that I've had to worry about old podcast episodes which will be very funny I wonder where they're gonna be like because like that that guy in main right yeah that got the tattoo removed but like is so like the right has no purity test and the left is kind of like wait a minute did you say did the left is that did you say uh there with an i the one thing used to bust their balls on Facebook about yeah is there a new thing about having the railroad politicians I think it that is the thing it's like you have to be Catherine Zeta Jones in that in that fucking laser movie when you're on the left we have to lift your leg up now swing it now drop it and like uh that's the difference is the left is Catherine Zeta Jones and Sean Connery going do a secretary down should to get a little piece of jewelry and the right is heat where they go why did Wengo shoot that guy in the face and they go because he looked at him too long and you go okay it's like you you're either the shoot out from heat politically or you're in the wagon or just in the middle of going I love heist movies because they all fucking I think we there there's going to have to be a we're going to have to evolve where you know it's so funny I'll probably get in trouble for this but like there's going to have to be a certain amount of humans or morons I went through my moron face yeah by the way I think that's everybody I was huge moron dude yeah it was a fucking huge moron my 20s that's what your 20s are I've got kids yeah and I'm like oh yeah you're you're watching go through it I'm like oh my god you know like I do know 16 to dumb shit that I you know we we started this podcast talking about stealing fucking political street signs but it's like yeah it was nothing you think that comedians at our predispose to conspiracy. Absolutely, good ones are. Yeah, good ones are because good ones are also good ones are good ones are creative and they're all you have to have a point of view on a suspicious mindset. You have to be suspicious. You have to go that's why we're horrible at taking compliments because someone does good job and you go. Yeah, it's all impostor fraud. Yeah. Yeah. That's why don't ever wrong that any comedian gets married. We're just ruining these people. You know what's great though with her is I feel like she's like the fact that she's tied up in the next room is not good. Yeah. Or we're in the room. I came in. She was like gagged and I was like, what's this? I don't worry about it. I go with this. I was like, what does that mean? I go, that's our code word, which means she's safe. But it is, man. It's like we shouldn't be important. We should be making fun of shit. Yeah, it's like I want to be the comic that you want to have a smoke break with. Not ask me what's happening at work. I don't fucking know. I'm not paying attention. I just trying to get through my day. Go home and play video games. I'm fucking sick all this shit. That's really how I feel. And that's why I love watching your, your special. It was like, you know, oh shit. This guy did a whole 45 minutes on bourbon with jokes. Like with jokes or jokes that I was like, I can't drink. Don't die. But I go, this fucking we got dude, I'm telling you, there were parts where I was like, I don't know, yeah. No, I don't want that. I don't want, that's why I had that joke about it. It's like I don't want because I, I understand that it is a struggle. But you go, I don't want someone to drink. I don't want someone to drink. They go like, when you know what you're doing or you're going like, when you're going like, you know, there's like Irish whiskey and there's Scott whiskey and you're going, you're like, oh, I remember that flavor. I was sitting here going, you know, room temperature. It's the best. The cold beer. But also, what's great about it is it's someone that doesn't drink immediately when you're in the liquor store stuff, I mean for me personally, I was just like, oh, this is my shit. Yeah. When you're like, I am going to talk about liquor stores. If I would have been there, I'd have been like, yeah, I don't know. Cause it is, it's great. Check out the special. It's on YouTube. The link is below. Jim Gaffigan is one of the best comics of all time. I can't thank you enough for coming on. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. (upbeat music)