Panel: NCAA Food & Supplement History, including Deregulation

Hey everyone, welcome back to sports already snippets. I am super excited for the very first panel episode on the podcast. We have five veteran sports dietitians. We have Amy Friel, Randy Bird, Leah Thomas, Allison Mauer, and Caroline Mendel. And we are talking all about the history of the NCAA food and supplement rules, including deregulation. I honestly asked all of them for their bios to send me to put in the show notes, but they are so incredibly accomplished that it wouldn't fit. And cutting anything down wouldn't do any of them justice. And I know most of the listeners know who they are, but if you don't, please go look them up and read all about them. I'm going to give you their current titles just for reference of, you know, when they're speaking throughout the podcast, just to, you know, kind of have a little bit of background of who is speaking. First up on our panel is Amy Friel, who was a founding member of CPSDA, and is currently the executive director of CPSDA. Randy Bird was also a founding member of CPSDA, and he is currently the director of sports nutrition at the University of Virginia. Allison Mauer was on the podcast two months ago in June, and she is the director of sports nutrition and fueling for the Pittsburgh pirates soon to be going to the high school. And Caroline Mendel is the director of sports nutrition at the University of Michigan. And lastly, Leah Thomas is the assistant athletic director for student athlete development at Georgia Tech. This episode is really for anyone and everyone. I'm so excited. If you are a aspiring sports R.D., a current sports R.D., or a veteran, I mean, this episode gives you all the feels and just really gives you perspective of an appreciation for our profession, you know, where it was, where it is, and where it is going. And just such amazing advice and wisdom that is just invaluable to anyone that listens today. So I hope you all enjoy. But before we dive into the episode, we are talking all about momentous and their plant-based protein, which tastes amazing. We've all had clients that are in need of a plant protein, and we know it's not easy to find one that actually tastes good, but momentous has their back. When we're talking about protein powders, we're looking for formulas that provide a full amino acid profile, high-quality ingredients that are free of fillers, and a powder that tastes great. Momentous mix of pea and rice protein provides all nine essential amino acids. It is incredibly gentle on the stomach. Their formula is NSF certified for sport, which we all know is a must. Their plant flavors also mix really well in taste delicious. In fact, their vanilla chai plant protein is now a best seller. So if you'd like to try the Momentous Plant-based Proteiner, any of their products as an R.D. Snippet listener, you can use the exclusive discount code, R.D. Snippets@Checkout, for 20% off your order. That's R.D. SNI, P.P. E.T.S. Check out their website at livmomentys.com. Thank you so much for momentous for sponsoring this episode. And let's jump in to our very first panel. Just so inspiring to see and reminisce about where we were and where things have come. Like you forget in a short period of time, and it's just amazing at how far things have come for our student athletes and what we've done for the profession. Hey, everyone, and welcome to sports already snippets. I'm Liz Waluka, a Rediser dietician and board certified specialist in sports dietetics. Every Wednesday, I'll be bringing you a sports dietician guest that will share advice and site and rewards the profession. Snippets of their own career path to becoming a sports R.D. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the podcast, the very first panel episode. How's everyone doing today? Good. Great. Really good. We are ready to go. We have Leah Thomas, Amy Friel, Caroline Mendel, Randy Bird and Allison Mauer on today. And we are talking about NCAA history of food and supplements, including deregulation. Let's jump in. We're going to start with Caroline. Can you talk about what it was like to educate student athletes in the 90s without any food resources? Well, Liz, let's refer to it as the 1900s. And so at University of Michigan from 1994 till 2000. So for six years, I was actually an outside consultant, and I was not on staff. And I was brought in originally to do some nutrition education with women swimming. And I was a swimmer in college and I was a registered dietician. I was taking the R.D. exam maybe in 2003. I was definitely a newbie. And I was working in cardiology at the University of Michigan health system. And the swim coach had called over to the clinic looking for a dietician to work with the team. I started with women swimming and diving. And as soon as other teams found out that swim dive had a dietician working with them, the calls started pouring in men swimming, gymnastics, softball soccer hockey. And so they didn't really create a position until 2000. So during that time, what nutrition education was like, I mean, keep in mind, you couldn't just do a Google search and find a free downloadable evidence based credible PDF about hydration or fueling or recovery or supplements like there was no Google. This to stuff didn't exist. So there was a few really good actual resources that I would use for like ready made handouts back when we used to do talks with handouts, right. And Gatorade had some nice what we called slicks. And so you'd keep this like original copy and you could make copies of that. But you never wanted to lose your select because it was like a very copy ready version. There was a thing called a hydration pyramid. I'm having like memories here, nostalgia Nancy Clark also had a pretty comprehensive set of education materials for sale from education handout slicks. There these things children called slides that you put in a slide carousel. Our point and Excel had not been invented. So like we have to kind of have a context here. And then she also had of course her her sports nutrition guidebook. So not a lot of resources to translate research that had been done and was being done even since the 60s. And in terms of bringing that information to the elite collegiate athlete. And so I started working with these teams and they would bring me in and I'd get like an hour a couple of times master. So you know mistake 101 is tell us a team everything they need to know about nutrition in an hour and only come once a year. So it goes in one year goes out the other. And in the back of my mind, I knew that Michigan like any school really needed a sports nutrition program, but I knew I was going to have to prove my worth and create the demand so that I could you know work within the department. I mean at that time the only staff I had access to was like the director of sports medicine, the team doc. So I told the teams I would be able to communicate a little bit if I showed up to practice like with an athletic trainer, but those were only like your only resources. We didn't have an academic center as a department then so our student athletes would go to study table in classrooms up on campus. So for me to meet with individual athletes because there were some athletes coaches wanted me to meet with individual and provide medical nutrition therapy whether it was disorder eating or athletes to gain weight or get lean or just fuel better. I would literally pull them out of study table and meet with them like on the floor of a hallway or in a stairwell or in a coffee shop or something like that. So you know having an office and having a performance team around you with just light years away from where I started for team education I remember with swimming. On my own I would schedule like a menu planning session and I would literally go to some swimmers house and I would meet with whoever lived in the house and talk about nutrition planning and then I take them to the grocery store and we would all grocery shopping we'd come back and we do a little kitchen like interactive cooking demo and like make dinner and I would have to go from house to house to house. I think me a month to be able to reach the entire team at that time to do that type of nutrition education about meal timing and frequency choices, portions and and all of those kinds of very valuable nutrition lessons and changes that they could make that would really help their performance in terms of fueling and recovery. So having like a real lack of resources a real like you know not having that performance team and having to create my own handouts and you know be able to only come in and have a presence with the team of you know a few times a year I think was really limiting and I knew that the capabilities of what I could do and the power of what register dietitians who specializing sports nutrition. So I think we have a lot of more in terms of building the rapport with the individuals and having that continuity of care throughout the year and throughout an athlete college career. I'm going to hop in just to interrupt and and add to what Caroline said this is this is Amy for you all but also remember there were no smartphones you were not texting athletes so athletes. stopped by your office. And that's how you had, I remember is some amazing interactions with athletes because they stopped in. There is this great relationship building that you had with your teams because there was no technology that you were communicating with. It purely was, they stopped by, you saw them, you know, in the hallway. I had a small, what I was, our fueling station back at Virginia Tech, which was called the Oasis. And they'd be in there. But it was, you know, way more relations, not to say it's not relationship building now. But it was very different in the fact that people stopped by and it was connecting that way. No one was texting you. There was no tweet. There was nothing from a technology standpoint that you were communicating with. It was all in person communication. So, I'm just wondering with that. And when I started, there was no email. So, to contact people, you're calling on a phone. Or if you were invited to practice, you'd be at practice, and a million people would come up, "Oh, I need to ask you a question." I mean, it was, the technology is definitely, was a game changer. So, question for Amy. This is Allison for both Amy and Caroline. Knowing back then that there was no ability for a student athlete to really come in and like grab their pre-practice snacks or their post-workout recovery. What did you guys have to do? And what did that look like to get athletes on board to actually do it themselves? Like, now we just know they just show up and they're probably fed because it's been provided. Like, what, what was that like? I know I pushed a lot of, I guess what we would call today, "adulting" in terms of, I remember in the summer coming in with football before deregulation and we couldn't do training tables in the summer and trying to educate them about their car protein ratios for post-lift recovery and muscle protein synthesis. And then having to write out like three different things that they could do and encouraging them to pack a bagel and peanut butter. Or, you know, try to get those 20 grams of protein and things that they could pack and they'd have to actually do this thing called plan ahead and prepare. Which at the end of the day is, you know, five minutes or five years after college are amazing skills that we all had to put into our own lives as well. So it really is doing the student a favor of teaching them these life skills, which I guess we'll get to it later when we talk about deregulation and so much of these resources being provided. We kind of lose that opportunity of having them do things for themselves. I loved it, Allison. I honestly think they actually stepped up in many occasions. They stepped up, they did it. They knew this is what they needed to do to get better. Stay healthy, stay safe, perform at their highest level and they stepped up and did it. And then once, you know, things were provided for them, their ability to manage their own fueling and recovery has really decreased if nonexistent. I was lucky at Virginia Tech. They had what was voted at the time and probably still is the best dining halls in the country. And so I did a ton of education at the dining halls and I would perk myself over in the dining halls from like 11 to 130 and be there to, you know, help people like, oh, you're coming from practice. Okay, let's walk over to, you know, to the dining halls. Let's walk over to Dietrich and let's go get, make your plates. And I would walk back and forth for my office with teams that they were finishing practice to go help them learn how to fuel and recover from their workouts. So I actually think it's harder with deregulation than it was without deregulation in many ways. A lot of education based and they were not enabled and they did it because they knew that they were going to have the edge over their competition by having nutrition as a resource. And at that time, Carolyn and I, I mean, there wasn't sports nutritionists. So if your team had a registered dietitian on staff, you were already at a level ahead. And then if you start actually in doing what they are instructing and educating you on, just think of how your performance is going to be better than your competition. So I thought it was easier. And you also had to deal, though, with the food insecurity too. So while, while deregulation has created problems that we're talking about, it solved some problems too because there were definitely athletes that would show up at a three o'clock practice and had not eaten yet. No, you're absolutely right. I mean, there was a lot of, a lot of that. There was a lot of not being able to afford produce or things that would spoil quickly had a, you know, poor shelf life. And so being able to provide a lot of those types of foods, which we all know, the nutritious value of those type of foods did definitely impact the athletes in a positive way with deregulation. And before that, which I know we'll get to it later, but Leo will really chime in about the fruit nut bagel legislation that where we could provide some of that stuff. Well, that's a great segue into our next question. Randy and Amy, they're going to take us through the history behind the NCAA food and supplement rules. And then Amy's going to talk about being the first sports dietitian to serve on the NCAA committee of competitive safeguards and medical aspect of sports. I know that's a lot of information at once, but Randy, take us away. Sure. So back back in the 90s, 1900s, right at the end of the 1900s is when a lot of our food rules came into play. So that's when I was finishing up undergrad, going into grad school, right before Amy got to Virginia check. And then I got to spend time with Amy there. But honestly, a lot of the rules were put in place to limit what people could do to specifically, I would say Nebraska. Nebraska football was a powerhouse and they fed everybody and fed them well. So there were a lot of schools that I think were jealous. This is my opinion of what Nebraska was doing and knew that they couldn't or they didn't think they had the resources available to do what Nebraska was doing. So they put in rules that limited the training table meal to one meal per day. And then they threw in supplement rules with it, but some of it was great. The supplement rules previously were basically non-existent. And you had strength coaches just passing out creatin by the bucketful and kind of forcing it on people and people feeling pressured to take something that they had no idea what they were taking. So that's where our permissible supplement legislation came into play. But the rule that was really our head begging against a brick wall rule was the 30% protein rule. They pulled that number. It seemed like out of thin air that no product that we provided could have more than 30% of the calories coming from protein. And it came from just the guideline that you shouldn't have roughly more than 30% of your total calories in the day from protein, but they narrowed it down to every product. So where you couldn't couldn't provide anything that had more than 30% protein from a supplement standpoint. And at that point there were four categories of supplements that we could provide that were basically sport strengths. So your carbohydrate beverage, carbohydrate boosters, vitamins, minerals, and so that's when electrolytes. Yeah, they broke up the electrolytes. So it was very, very tightly. You could give supplements, but you couldn't give food. Where we were anti, they preached, you shouldn't take supplements that you were food first, reliant food, reliant food. But here you can give them these supplements, but you're not allowed to give food. Yeah, so it was supplements with tight restrictions. And then not the ability, and Leo will talk to him, but not the ability after practice to hand somebody, you know, a banana or to give them a granola bar. It was okay to give them a supplement bar, a protein recovery bar as long as it had less than 30% protein. So what we were seeing is a lot of industry was making products to meet these arbitrary and sedably percent guidelines. And then what they were having is less than 30% protein, but they were loading it with tons and tons of carbohydrates. So we were seeing, you know, some athletes gain, you know, we were having weight issues, we were having, you know, some of our players putting on a lot of weight because those products were filled with so many things that an athlete doesn't need to recover, but it met the guidelines set forth by the NCAA rules at that point in time. There's a lot of sugar. A lot of sugar. A lot of sugar. A lot of saturated fat. Yes. And these products that isn't kind of like a long lines of health and safety. So was it really hard to educate with all of the push on the supplement and then you're just trying to educate, but then it's like they're not helping you because you can't give up. about food, was that conflicting or was it just what it was? - I would say it wasn't. Go ahead. - Sorry, you didn't have the budgets that you have now. - Oh, right. - The budgets were significantly less. So if you were able to give out, you know, I'll say like a Gatorade protein bar, your Gatorade protein budget was really, really, really minimal compared to what people are using now as a budget. So it was a special thing to be able to hand out something after a practice as a recovery or a pre-practice. It just didn't exist. So it wasn't as hard as it is now. The industry, I think supplement industry was much smaller or significantly smaller. And so you didn't have the battle. There also wasn't social media. So people weren't having products out on social media. There wasn't that Twitter, there wasn't Instagram, there wasn't all of that that athletes were seeing. So it was not like a battle. I don't recall it being a battle like it is now. It was just a matter of always trying to tell someone, like, "Oh, go grab some chocolate milk," or "Why don't you go grab some fruit," and maybe have peanut butter sandwich, and just not being able to give it to them, not being able to hand it over, but trying to help them navigate how to go get this and play on a head like Caroline said. - It's just a huge disconnect between the NCAA wanting to create this so-called even playing field with the haves and the have-dots, but also promoting the health model and promoting health and wellness, and a food-first approach. But I couldn't, like Amy said, you couldn't give a kid a banana. And I had to fight compliance for two years, showing research evidence that chocolate milk outperforms other recovery drinks, because chocolate milk was a food. Like, you can give them a shake, but you can't give them chocolate milk. I'm like, "This is $33 a cup." And again, having no budget. Took me two years to get our department to allow me to give chocolate milk prior to fruit nuts and bagels, 'cause it was evidence-based. - She's, I mean, it's crazy because I feel like just hearing you with beginning talking about athletes, helping them plan and prepare. And a lot of us, we do that now with our jobs. I don't know any different, but I mean, deregulation has obviously done incredible things, but it is kind of crazy to think. I forgot like technology and all those distractions now. And, you know, that face time of what it really was like and how special that probably was, compared to all the distractions now. Anything else during that timeline that you think anyone should know, maybe like CPSDA kind of forming or just maybe up until-- - Sure. - December. - So Fruit and Abagle, Leah jump in here. - Yeah. - So the next rule advancement was Fruit and Abagle. Then we'll come back to CPSDA and deregulation and the additions we've had from there, but Leah was part of the impetus to actually make some progress in providing some food to the athletes. - Yeah. And I've been thinking a lot about that timeline. I don't remember what year. I mean, it's probably documented somewhere, I guess. But I was young for sure in my career. I started here in 2003. So it was sometime in the first four or five years after that. But I mean, Amy, I just remember always, I can still hear Amy Preal's voice saying, "I mean, I can give him a power bar off my desk, but I can't give him an apple." You know, that kind of thing, just the frustration that that was. And so I don't even remember if somebody encouraged me to do that. Like, it's really hard for me to think back to that young self actually taking this initiative to write a by-law proposal change. But nonetheless, I did. And I wish I could go find, I'm sure it's somewhere. - It was in 2004. - Okay. Oh, so I was really young in my career. - Yeah, 2004. - Okay. - You were young. And it was great that Georgia Tech pushed it forward. Do you mean like I think it was where you had the support there with your compliance to push it forward? - Yeah, that's what I, we have an intern right now actually. And I was telling all of this stuff in preparation for like getting on this call at three. And I said, yeah, myself, I wrote something about needing to be able to provide food or as dieticians. We like to push food over supplements and what kind of message are we sending. And I was telling him, I remember saying, for example, fruits, common nuts, common in bagels, dot, dot, dot, as my like, these types of things is what I'm referring to. And yeah, whoever was in our compliance office at the time, was supportive and helped me probably reward it and make it, you know, an acceptable format to be submitted as a proposal. And so that's what we did. And then, and I also think actually at the time our men's basketball, headman's basketball coach kind of endorsed it and pushed, helped push it as well. And that was the year that they went to the final championship game. So that probably helped to have a, you know, a runner up championship basketball teams head coach helping. But anyway, nonetheless, that's, that's kind of how, and I don't remember Amy, you probably can, like when that went to vote and discussion and when it came to be, but it was obviously a very literal translation of what I wrote. And not, for example, but okay, specifically, you may provide fruits, nuts, and bagels. And yeah, my intern got a good laugh. He was like, so like a dry bagel, like, yeah, yeah, it didn't allow for cream cheese or peanut butter, and jelly or, you know, whatever you wanted to put on it, it was just a very, very literal translation of whatever exactly I wrote with those as my examples. And that, that came through like 2007 was when it finally came through because first two years that when I worked at Kansas, we weren't allowed to, to do the fruits. And we ended up starting to, and our ideas like, if somebody wants to write me up for providing apples to our athletes, let them go for it. - That was 2009. - It might have been, it might have been a little-- - It was 2008 that it was approved and voted for. So 2008 it finally came to fruition. - New head schools, you had schools buying peanut grinders to make peanut butter because we were not allowed to give peanut butter with these bagels, but you could give them a bagel and a pack of peanuts, but you couldn't give them peanut butter. - I would go out of the-- - Yeah, yeah, go ahead. I have a question too. But when compliance like pushed this law forward, was anyone like, hey, like, let's double check and make sure the wording is, or could you be like, wait, by the way, like we didn't, like, yeah, I mean, like how did that really just go for so long without like someone like letting you guys speak up or something? - Well, let me ask Caroline, Amy, Alison, did you guys hear of this rule like the process before it passed or was it you found out once it passed, hey, we're allowed to do this now? - Well, I mean, because I was familiar, like I knew Leah was working on it and we were kind of on the inner circle of it. I mean, I knew it was coming. So yeah, and so when my compliance told me, I mean, I already knew it was coming through the pipeline. - But we were all young, Randy. So no one thought someone would take it so literally. - Seriously. - Not big. - How is it? - So no one knew. So there was no communication with dieticians at the NCAA level and even, you know, the communication of those that are voting and making decisions. We were still such a young profession that our web hadn't spread so far to have some input or be like, oh, we should probably confirm this with, you know, that's why competitive safeguards, you know, kind of evolved as well. But there was none of that portion. So no one, I wouldn't have thought you're just giving examples. Leah's like, and granola bars. - You know, or whatever. - Yeah. - We've had to do that a few more things on your list, right? - Right. - That's where you said it was 2008. So CPSDA, we didn't even have our first informal conference where we weren't CPSDA yet. It was just a group of dieticians till 2009 in Nashville. We did a presimposium as part of scan in 2008. But yeah, we were really a very tight-knit group of dieticians that would meet together at a scan conference once a year. Have dinner, talk shop, go to a few sessions, but spend more time talking with each other, get back and talk about how much fun we had together. And honestly, the most we got out of our time there was the dinner where we got to collaborate and talk about each other's days and the problems and struggles that we had and how to work through it. - And since so many departments had created entire departments and like at Michigan, it was me, myself, and I. So there was all three of us at Michigan, aka one person that those meetings were so valuable because we exchanged phone numbers. So I just remember being on the phone 'cause most places didn't have an entire staff. You didn't have people in the next office or on your campus where you could just say, hey, what do you think about this? So a lot of long-distance phone bills and a lot of calls in between those meetings to just have some sense of support and camaraderie and to grow those programs. Leah, can I ask you a question about Pertnuffton Bagels 'cause I remember hearing the reason why, they didn't include spreads because they didn't want schools to think of filetman Yon was a spread. I'll make that opera that's for you. Compliance departments ran with it that way. Yeah. Yeah, like they didn't want bail with locks and stuff like that. Yeah. Oh, no. And now look at us now with Sam and her visual. Yeah. And so when I was at Tennessee, I think I was the first school to buy a peanut grinder. And so I went to, I don't know, my compliance officer was awesome. And so he was like, if you can figure out a way, we'll do it. So I was like, all right, so I'm at Whole Foods and I'm like, all right, peanut grinder. So I brought him like the receipt. And I'm like, see, I like, I bought the peanut butter, but it was nuts and I grounded. He's like, nope, that's not going to work because on the receipt it says peanut butter. It's like, ding it. Given Nicole White who is in the profession, she's in Florida now. She was one of my undergrad students. And she was like, this is stupid. This is a stupid rule. So she told her dad about it. And he bought us a peanut grinder. That's, so we started ordering peanuts by the case and making peanut butter. And at the end of every day, we'd make sure we had like a plastic bag over the nozzle because we had mice so bad in the way we were so, but that's how it was, you know, so you and James Harris. Yeah. You were the two punch. I think I did. You were the two that were able to pull off the peanut grinders. I don't know anybody else who actually purchased a peanut grinder outside of you two. Yeah. After you did that, I wanted to. And unfortunately, our physician said we have one kid with a peanut allergy. So they're like, no way. We can't do it. I'm like, man, I got it. But then from there, the big 10, I forget who in the big 10 caroline. But the big 10s, the one who stepped forward and said, pushed, pushed some loosening of that to where if it's spreadable on a bagel, you can do it. So we had Greek yogurt in our fridge with the bagels because you could spread it. Nobody, nobody ever spread it on a bagel. But so it was, it was something like 2012-ish. That the big 12, I mean, the big 10 came out and said, this is how we're interpreting this. This is how we're doing it. And then I shared that with our compliance. And they took it to the ACC and they said, well, we're not going to do anything different than the big 10. So do do what they're doing. So you won't get in trouble for doing what they're doing. So then that's when we started being able to do things like peanut butter with the bagels and the Greek yogurt I stretched it a little. But rules were starting to loosen a little bit. But prior to that, I had athletes. We just had different football players by a jar of peanut butter and stick it out with the, at least I'm under the impression it was a football player that did it and not a coach. But it's possible that somebody other than myself put a jar of peanut butter out and made it, made it available for the athletes. Amy, do you want to talk about being the first dietician on the committee and just that? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So things like Randy had said had really started to progress. Sports dietitians became much more known within the NCAA, within those that are making boating decisions and policies, bylaws, discussions. And so things had started to progress. And probably right around 2010, 2011, we've had way more connection with NCAA, really inquiring about the law, the bylaws, what do they mean? Why are we doing this? In 2011, I moved from Virginia Tech to Indiana. And during that time, had a lot of conversations with Mary Wilford, who at that point in time was one of the folks over the competitive safeguards committee and was offered the opportunity to sit on the committee as an ad hoc member. So as an ad hoc, there to contribute, listen, add to discussion, voice opinions and thoughts, but not a voting member. So I started that in June of 2012. And at that time, there was also a strengthen conditioning ad hoc member as well. So it was the two of us that were both non-voting, but could provide input and thoughts. And I think at that point really started open peoples in that committee are athletic trainers, team physicians. Medical decision makers, FARs that are on that committee. And I think really those folks had started to be in, already aware of nutrition and the progress that we had made in like the trailblazing that we were making within collegiate athletics, but then having my seat at the table, I think really given the opportunity to easily ask, well, Amy, what is what is the nutrition thought on this? Amy, what do you think about the nutrition angle? So somebody in the room being able to it was easy to have them ask questions of me while they were talking through things. The other thing to remember, which was eye opening for me on this committee, is any decisions that are made at the NCAA level are not just for division one. So we think like, well, yeah, like why aren't we doing this? This is easy for division one. Any health and safety goes through all three divisions. So it took years to make changes because you're looking at implementing at D3, D2 and D1. And I think that was a different perspective for me to you just walk in thinking, oh, this is going to be easy. Everybody in D1 wants this. We all can do it. Why can't we add cheese and peanut butter, you know, or add more food, but they're looking if it can be for D1, it should be the same ruling for everyone down if it's a health and safety, same with like sickle cell testing. All of that, it goes through all three levels. So it gets much more complicated than what anybody I think would imagine because you're talking about what can be done at D1 can maybe be easily implemented and financially affordable, but it can't be very easily implemented at D3. And that's where things kind of get tightened up and hard to move the process forward. So it was an amazing opportunity for me to connect. I've connected networked with a ton of amazing medical professionals involved with NCAA schools, but also really to have the forefront of putting dieticians and sports nutrition on the map of something for NCAA to be considering when looking at bylaws and honestly, athletes, health and wellbeing. And then after me, it became a voting position. So I served for two years and then they made it a voting position and then Randy served on the committee in a voting capacity, moving forward. And then when Randy's termed end ended, Auburn Wiesensale, who's currently on the committee, dietician from Pitt is serving on the committee. And so she has connection back to CPSTA. We help have committees that help bring things forward for her to competitive safeguards as far as you know, bylaw changes, wording of documents. So it's great to have CPSDA's involvement continued with the competitive safeguards committee. So is that like where you voted on deregulation or that's not where that vote happens? Well, sort of. Yeah, it's like we push in competitive safeguards, you approve something to move forward to a vote. So we within competitive safeguards would vote yes, take this to the next voting level or no. So we had the ability to vote yes to take it to those that are the stakeholders to make the decision yes or no. Okay, did you all feel like you had strength coaches and athletic trainers? It was everyone like this is ridiculous or it just was what it was and then as like the noise kind of did I just get louder as the years went on as like CPSDA formed kind of? Well, so yes, the strength coaches were allowed about it. The athletic trainers definitely thought it was the rules were dumb and that we should be able to do more, but I don't remember hearing too much from the sports medicine side. But you had all this work going on in the background of pushing for deregulation to happen. And then it just took a Yukon basketball player to say he went to bed hungry after winning the National Championship. Then all of a sudden it's public public news. Even though we'd done all this work in the background, it was the pressure that he put nationally on it. The spotlight that he put really was the impetus that pushed it forward faster than had he not said it. I think it probably still would have passed, but not as quickly. It would have been years. The N. Sanemaili works at a very slow pace and you know and not to be super critical, but you know it's checking all the boxes. It's looking at it deeper than just our level of how we look at it to us. It's a no-brainer, but there's more implications, but for everything they work at an extremely slow pace. I think it would have taken in a few more years. I agree with Randy, it would have passed. But at that point in time, we had social media. We had the person bring unbelievable attention to it. And that definitely expedited the attention and focus. And I think the overall response of voting to move it forward. Absolutely. Oh. Yeah, so right. I just Googled that story. It was in April. He came out in April 2014. And I think the vote for deregulation was like August. So I definitely think that was an incentive for the vote. And I also appreciate Amy what you said about, the rules don't affect us, D1, but D2 and D3. My daughter is a soccer player to D2 be school. And I know over just the past year, so they've started providing snacks to their athletes. So again, it's a budget thing. It's a policy thing. It's a lot to try to implement. Are you ready for a story time who wants to start first? The funniest, saddest story, whatever you've got before deregulation that you want to share. If you're looking for funny, you just got to look to the far right of my screen. And Maurer seems to have-- I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know she shared it earlier. She and Jana Heitmeier would probably set the record for the funniest stories. Let's start with you then, Allison. I-- OK. So let's see. So my first story-- so when I was interning with Robin Leah at Georgia Tech, I was so excited. So I was like, oh, wow. They have animal crackers and pretzels. For their student athletes to come and get a cup. There was also the metrics that was the supplement of the 1900s early 2000s. And so when I got my first job at Colorado, I was like-- but I asked Robin Leah how that works. And they're like, it's a carbohydrate booster. So it's not-- and back then, too, the NCAA rules was like, they were super hyper-sensitive about an added meal, right? Like Caroline said, that one meal a day that we were allowed to provide, and that was it. And so when I got to Colorado, I was like, told my boss to shrinkot, I'm like, hey, isn't this a good idea? What if we had animal crackers and pretzels? We did this when I was at Georgia Tech. And he was like, yeah, that's a great idea. So I started buying that and putting it out. And our compliance comes down. And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, it's a carbohydrate booster. Isn't this cool? And they're like, that's a secondary violation, because that's an added meal. I'm like, it's like-- it's a cup. Like, it's one of those eight-ounce, gatoried cups full of animal crackers. You're like, yeah, we're going to write you up. That's a secondary violation. I'm like, oh my gosh. So that was-- yes. So that's what we were dealing with. And then I remember-- Ellison, real quick. I think we also said, because we were located in the dining hall. So we called it like, that's part of our training table. Even though it's all hours of the day, we lumped it in there. We were not separated in the weight room. So I think it was like-- We had two factors there. That's right. So you guys were able to double up. But yeah, because you were literally right behind the training table your office was. But yeah, so I got written up for that. And then you guys remember the old power bar was like the gold wrapper ones. It was like cookies and cream, apple cinnamon. And so back then, too, it was like, you could not provide individual amino acids. So every power bar was fine except for apple cinnamon. So apple cinnamon, for whatever reason, had individual amino acids. So I got busted on that one, too, and I got written up again. So-- Well, that's still a rule, Allison. Yeah. But it was just the whole thing with that one flavor of power bar compared to all the other ones. So yeah, so that was-- I got written up for that. And then I got Randy in trouble one time. So that was-- Oh, he did. I was-- so I was like-- that was when Colorado was in the Big 12. And so we met at scan like the eight of us or whatever. And so we were talking about like what we provided. And Randy had mentioned something about two-week granola bars. So I go back and I'm like, see, like Kansas, they do granola bars. So our compliance calls Randy's compliance. And Randy gets in trouble. I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm done. I'm done. So I'm-- no more granola bars, no more animal crackers, uncle. I'm done. So those are just some of the things that we dealt with. I didn't have a ton of funny stuff. I mean, I remember more the fun interactions and like having Allison come visit in Kansas when she's probably, I don't know, 30 weeks pregnant. And just it was such a small intimate group of dietitians that the CPSJA was-- it's awesome now. It was almost like a bunch of cousins, I would say, when we started before it was CPSJA. So we had a Yahoo groups list of before CPSJA, before 2008 when we did the presimposing at scan. And it would be-- what would be frowned upon today is unprofessional. A lot of joking. It was just a fun time because of the relationships we had with each other. And complaining about the dumb rules that we had to deal with and the things like granola bars and peanut grinders and things of that nature. I remember too, every time a job came open, which was not like the CPSJA job board right now, which is on fire, you're talking very rarely a job came open. But when Dave left Nebraska, I think all six of us applied. And it's not that you wanted to go to Nebraska at all, necessarily. It's that you wanted just to pay-- you needed to go apply for another job to show value at your current employer to get a raise. And so I remember all of us are you applying? Yeah, yeah, I applied. I applied. Interview, yeah, yeah, yeah. And none of us necessarily like I said, we're dying to go there. But it was all this like how do you create an increased salary where you're at or get an additional staff member or all of those things. I mean, it was like you had to apply for a job. And the jobs weren't-- there were no jobs. I mean, there literally were no jobs. People were going and creating a position. And you stayed in it. Look at Leah. How long have you been at Georgia Tech? Well, just this month, I guess, 18-- I mean, going on 19 years. Yeah. I mean, so like Leah, when you start that and Rob was there before you, but she stayed. So in our jobs back then, you stayed in jobs for a really long time. How was that Virginia Tech from 1999 to 2011? You weren't moving positions like people do now. Caroline Spinnett Michigan for her whole career. And so it was hard to find jobs. But we all applied. Whoever was open, he didn't even want it, but you applied just to get an increase in pay. It was like one a year for a while. It was like one a year. And then you applied to Nebraska the second time around. And when Brian layman was giving that job, that opened the Tennessee position, which then you bounced to Tennessee. Yep. And then because I was such a nuisance at Colorado, they actually dissolved my position and hired another strength coach. Well, at the time you didn't tell, at the time, you were a strength coach and dietitian. And what you had with two or three strength coaches leave and they just kept piling on sports on top of you. Yes. I think I had volleyball, track and field, men's and women's golf, women's tennis. And then I had a helpful ball. As a strength coach, while being the dietitian for the whole department, yeah. I remember from the last time the CPSTA career survey was completed and presented at one of the meetings. Someone put up a beautiful map of the United States kind of showing school by school, who had programs. And since the survey had finished to that day, it became like Game of Thrones. That map could have morphed. By that day, it was completely different. More programs had added staff. More programs had created programs. And all of a sudden, it's like the rapid amount of change has been phenomenal. And I guess, good, bad and ugly, I think we owe a lot of that change in growth to deregulation and the need to have professionals on the ground piling. Absolutely. Leah, do you have a story? I mean, you would think after all this time. I'm sure I have a question for you. Do you feel like you're famous for the fruit nut and be? Do you have a question for me? Do you have this award at your office? That's fun. No. No. I never even-- I don't guess I even up until recently when we refer to that and laugh at it. Did I even associate myself with it, really? But I guess it's true. Yeah, no. I mean, I don't know. I think back to when my office-- well, I've had four different or five different offices here now. And I used to live up in our academic center after I got out the cafeteria, because that wasn't fun. And so I had this tiny office in this closet that I just stacked boxes of bars in my like, cliff bars and balance, you know, whatever, cliff bars except for the caffeine one, just like your, your BZA's, I was in or whatever, the caffeine one, but anyway, and people, but the closet door stayed closed, I mean, just because no reason really, but I remember people would slowly discover it and they're like, did you know, Leah has a closet full of bars in our office, but that was like, that mean that was it, you know, that was it and the rest of it was just talk and education like what Caroline and Amy said. But yeah, I'm sure I have a Brazilian one story, some probably inappropriate, but yeah, I don't know. I think also, I thought about this as we were talking and I've thought about this before that, it's interesting that I think that sometimes, I and some other people on this collar, it's a little bit of a disadvantage because of being here for so long and not like me personally being here for so long, but the program being here for so long. And we have not, you know, I have one assistant that I hired two years ago. And so I feel like we've been so comfortable in and not to say, not to be negative about Georgia Tech specifically, but just a historic program that's been here forever. We have had a hard time catching up to what's going on. And I don't know, I don't really know how to explain that, why that is other than it's just been established for so long and we, in a way, you have a lot of people here, including head coaches that have been here for a long time too. So we haven't necessarily responded. I don't have a staff, I have Chandler. And that's it, you know, and I still also oversee our life skills program. So we, you know, we're, it's interesting how that is, some of the new programs I feel like get added and are better off than I am. And that's unfortunate, but hopefully we will catch up one day. - Yeah, it's interesting hearing like I always forget that you guys have been in your jobs for so long and how you're saying like people two to three years, they go, they're hopping now. And I don't know if it's like a bet. I don't know what to think of it, but Alice and I guess this question's for you, like, or for everybody, what do you think of the enormous job growth with deregulation or just, I don't know, just any opinion on where the field was, where it is now or where it could be going? - Yeah, I think it's a blessing and a curse, honestly. And I think, you know, Amy has, you know, kind of led to this as well. So because like the job growth is great, I think it's amazing, but I think what it has also created is some entitlement of I deserve more. And so that I think that is one of the reasons why people just don't stay in jobs as long anymore is because, well, I can make more elsewhere. And I think somewhere along the lines, and I don't even think this is specific to nutrition. I think it's just in the industry in general. Like, it's less about, do I love what I do? Am I in a good spot that's going to help me grow professionally and personally? And it's more about who's going to write me a bigger paycheck? And it's unfortunate. And so, you know, again, like I said, I love the growth. I love how it's happened. I just, I almost wish each individual would just slow down. Like the jobs aren't growing and, and, like popping up and that's great, but each person needs to stop and slow down and be like, maybe I'm fine where I'm at. I really like where I'm at. I haven't hit my ceiling yet. My, administration believes in what I'm doing. It might take another year to get me where I want to be, but I'm willing to wait it out because the reward will be there versus they don't want to listen to me. They don't want to do what I want to do. So I'm going to go get another job, you know. And like Amy said, we all interviewed for other jobs out of necessity, not necessarily because we wanted to. And so, you know, I think I interviewed for six jobs before I ended up at Tennessee. So it's just, you know, so yeah, there's, there's more to a job than the salary. And I think, you know, looking, hoping that young professionals are really looking at like, who are my mentors? And then do I have a great mentor where I'm at? And that mentor doesn't have to be your supervisor, direct supervisor, but it could be an administrator. It could be a coach. And looking at really the value of what a job your career or your job brings to you and not just looking at the paycheck. Like, you know, what are the benefits? I can tell you, I left Virginia Tech in 2011 as a director of sports nutrition over a staff making $50,000. I stayed there for a long time, no one I was underpaid compared to others in 2011, but I had an unbelievable work life balance. I had an amazing assistant athletic director over sports performance who was a visionary for my field. And I had great support and mentorship. And so, a dollar value wasn't worth it for me to move. And I hope young professionals can look at the whole comprehensive package of what maybe you are getting at your current place of employment. And the grass is not always greener. The dollar value does not always bring a better job satisfaction, a better career development. And I think you really need to look at those other things. I mean, the job growth is crazy. It's great. But I think I hope young professionals can look at some of these other factors. And really make sure that they're developing themselves, developing their staff. And then most importantly, looking at developing their student athletes to be the best that they can be as athletes and as individuals. Yeah. I mean, good example. My time at Kansas, I loved my time at Kansas. And Virginia job popped open and I didn't know why for it. So I'm originally from Virginia. Went to Virginia Tech. Obviously, I have known Amy for a very, very, very long time since the 1900s. So the Virginia job popped open. I didn't apply because I didn't feel like I was done at Kansas. I was more I wanted to get done and accomplish at Kansas. I hadn't seen an entire class of student athletes come through yet. I wanted to do more. And then that's when Rob Skinner took the Virginia job. And then in 2000, early 2010, he calls me and says, hey, I resigned today. So I'm going to look out. This job should be posting soon. So then at that point, I felt comfortable. I was moving to come back home. It wasn't moving to OK, I'm just going to go search for money. Because yeah, you got to you got to love what you're doing. And to quote Rob, he always says, if you're not living your dream, get out, get out of the way. Let somebody else come live it. That's not exactly how he puts it, but-- So I got to clean the-- Just jump it. Yes. I mean, I'll add on to all that. 100% agree, obviously, having been at tech for very long. And I can honestly only think of one other job I ever even kind of entertained. And I never applied. I actually just let myself think about it and then talk to the person who was leaving the position. And that's all I ever did. I'm not saying I did it right or wrong, but I will say that I am 100% invested in Georgia tech. And I think that's a big deal. And I think that it shows. And people know that here. And then in the opportunities that I have outside of the world of nutrition, now some of that I can complain about, some of the stuff that I probably shouldn't ever see that I do. But nonetheless, I've been given this incredible opportunity because of this history I have. And there's nothing here that I don't know how to do, outside or inside of the world of nutrition. Not only that, but I've got three children who were born in Atlanta. And we are invested in this city. And in the school that my kids go to, and all of that means much more to me than I can promise you my paycheck is not reflective of 19 years of being in one place. That's for sure. But I am so very invested in this school right or wrong. And I just-- but everybody knows that. Like everybody internally and externally probably knows that. So that only helps my effectiveness in the long run. Come on and come and lay out with-- I'm starting my 22nd year. I raised my family here. My husband grew up here. If I were entertaining jobs, I would have to leave my family. And I'm invested in Michigan and being in Ann Arbor, the way you talk about it, Atlanta and Georgia Tech. And the beautiful thing is we've built a program here. And I've got administrators and colleagues who are just as invested in me. And so I feel like at this old age, I'm very young. It hard. I try to learn something new every day and learn. And grow and build on that growth mindset that the people talk about with new fangles talk. And one of the things I was thinking about when you were talking earlier that has helped, I think, our program not get stagnated. Certainly is the changes in legislation. And being able to benchmark with what people are doing around the country and going to conferences and just being creative and innovative. but we have a fellowship. program where we bring in digestion fellows as well as being part of the Gatorade SNP program and have had several SNP fellows spend their eight months or a year even here at Michigan and you know when they've come from other programs one of our SNPs had gone to Indiana. One of our fellows last year ran to you know where she was at Virginia and so they bring in such a wealth of experience, creativity, new perspectives that really kind of helps us to keep growing and changing and keeping up with the times or staying ahead of the times and providing that leadership that you know people I think expect from a Power 5 school. Yeah well thank you for sharing all of that I mean I think of any young professional listening right now well like not like think twice but I think I mean I think sometimes it's easy to run because there's more jobs open so I think young professionals when things get hard it's easy to be like well there's you know the salary or there's something else but I don't know speaking from my own experience like I'm so glad that you know I've worked somewhere for four years which probably sounds like a long time compared to like I don't know you know I know it's not a long time like not 11 years but like when things get hard like it's worth working through it like that's the experience you get from that versus like trying to find anything that's better and like you're saying Amy like the grass is not usually greener on the other side and I don't know sometimes it scares me too what people would go for maybe too. I think it's really rewarding to see a program evolve. I personally only was interested in never starting a program not following someone I loved starting and growing a program but I think when things do get hard it's or challenging or you know stagnant it's really really rewarding to see through that and challenge yourself and challenge the other you know the folks around you to find a way to implement change as small as it may be I just think it's really really rewarding to see a program through but I'm old so I didn't have all these other opportunities to do that. All right okay oh you go Randy. I was just gonna say yeah yeah where Amy said the grass is not always greener I mean it's it's greener on the side that you water so the side you're taking care of is where it's gonna be where it's gonna be flourishing so and as Amy said the jobs just weren't there I mean when Allison was at Colorado and I was at Kansas you had two other people in the big 12 you had James Harris at Nebraska and Amy Bragg at Texas A&M I mean at Kansas there were when I got hired there it was only 10 schools that's it 10 schools in the whole country that had the position when Leo started at Georgia Tech I think there were only four schools. As veterans sports dietitians what do you all feel it you know was the key to success you know prior to deregulation and then now as a sports dietitian I know there's probably been a lot of changes but anything that you still think holds true. For me it's relationships building and cultivating relationships with athletes with coaches with administration with NCAA sports is a care of self people move around you build and you cultivate relationships to me by far that is the most important thing you can do by not building good relationships you eliminate opportunities for yourself in the future and possibly for others so I still think that's the foundation of how we started and it's still very true to a successful sports dietitian. I agree 100 percent so I mean those of you who know how many coaches and strike coaches I went through at Tennessee a lot of them you know went to other schools and it was it was nice for dietitians to be hired at some of those schools and for the dietitians who may have already been there when the new strength coaches came in they already knew like they had an idea what nutrition was all about because they'd seen it before so it's whatever impression you're leaving on those people is what they're going to carry to the next dietitian that they're working with or the next program that they become a part of so if you're incredibly difficult and you know like dig in your heels in the sand and not wanting to you know be easy to work with or accommodating then you're setting you're setting the next sports idea for a really complicated tough transition when that coach gets there so and that's yeah before deregulation post deregulation you know it's that's a huge deal and to piggyback on that of what I have said over and over and over is I mean it's a lot about attitude we're support service we are servants per se and that is not about us you got too many people in the athletic world that are glory seeking and want to be seen on tv want want to spotlight and we should be behind the scenes everything we do is not front and center and it should be about other people it's not about I would say it's not about me so having that attitude and building relationships like Amy and I was and said that's to me that's the secret to success in this and the piggyback off of that I know that like prior to like being on staff a lot of it was communication and collaboration that I had to initiate because I wasn't on staff and then after that it was about being present if I hold myself up in my office doing consults or working on the computer all day you could get a couple of things done but the second I would leave my office go to practices go to lifts uh trading table meals competitions um I I used to joke I would do the majority of my business and collaboration um in the parking lot because I would be going from building to building and you would get to run into people that you normally wouldn't see and those conversations created opportunities so be present I would say also the relationship piece 100% in all aspects of that I mean the relationships that I have within this building you should see the people who come to help me load and unload on Wednesdays when inventory comes um because it's Chandler's in the weight room maybe and I'm here and and it's a lot you know like we have people in academics and our ticket office and our I mean you know and we just have a relationship within this organization that they don't care what they're doing they drop to come help because they see what's going on you know so that's that's the only way we would survive with the two people that we have Randy why did you put in the chat tell everyone what you just put in the chat oh it was just something that Rob always said too is uh Caroline Caroline had said uh he had to be present so Rob said it all the time is if you're there you care uh so having having athletes see you at practices in the weight room they know you're invested in the program and honestly uh every time I'm up in the baseball weight room uh that's why I get more interaction with them they oh I'm in to ask you something um so yeah how do you document that in the chart oh my god so yeah if you're there you're care but be careful with that too and that if you're the only one there uh you you shouldn't be going to every sporting event every every team's game uh because then then you burn out so you got to take care of yourself also so if you're not there you're smart with your time too yes good you got to be selectively there I like it all right ready for the rapid fire round there's only there's only two questions okay we'll just go around if you had it choose you can only choose one fruit not or bagel what would you choose yeah you go for okay I 100 percent bagel I'm a carbohydrate girl I was gonna go with fruit because um it's so we're still struggling to help athletes get fruits and vegetables every day I'd I go for Amy free it all the way Randy just statues go with the nuts you the nut that's a good choice actually I like this specific awesome so okay here's my question is it fruit nut bagel pre-spritz or fruit nut and bagel post-spritz I wasn't around during that time so you make a pre-spritz pre-spritz then I'm going for you and then this is just a question was cpsd a supposed to be called like what were the other options of the name so honestly walking on my son's kindergarten field trip on a phone call trying to decide the names um and looking at the acronym acronyms so in a long time um yeah we couldn't do originally we were just a bunch of collegiate sports side dishes so we used csd's a lot and then uh uh there were people that did not like that because they were like a lot of people that were like a It was too similar to CSSD. - And it was really limiting us on the growth of the organization. - Yes. - So professional and then at that time still, we were looking at Tactical. We knew that that wasn't an avenue of career growth. So trying to incorporate as many sports dietitians working with an athletic population. I do remember vividly these conversations like walking on a kindergarten field trip on the phone, trying to throw out different name combinations and what the acronym would look like. And is that encompassing is that to limiting of potential sports dietitians, we don't want to peg ourselves into a small hole too quickly and then have to rebrand and trying to find-- - And trying to find-- - It was a way bigger deal than you think. - Trying to find a logo. And then surprisingly once we decided on CPSTA, there was somebody already had that website. - Yes, so if you type in cpsda.com or org, it was already taken. - Oh, name names, searches are, yeah. - All right, ready for the last question? - Yes. - If you could all tell your pre-regulation self one thing, what would you say? - Recall the names or are we just going? - Well, you go. I would say be careful what you wish for. - Why does go slow, you can always grow. (laughing) - Oh my God, this is amazing. - Woo! - Here we are. - That's the car. - Are you saving that? Like that. - She took two weeks to figure that baby out. She had a baby. - Hey, no. - Marinated over it, had bullied. - It came right to me when the slow you asked the question. I swear. - What about you, Amy? - I still live on the life of the noise brainer on the other side. - Unless you water it. - That's right. - Can we provide water? Is that hydration? That was one of the categories or not? - We're there with a lot of water. - Yeah, couldn't have electrolytes? Where do we get that in? - Well, the struggle I'm going to be dealing with is our state is getting rid of for all state org, like Virginia Tech, Virginia, JMU. We can't buy bottles anymore. So our water is going to have to be canned. - No. (laughing) - What about water in the back? - The water in the back, greener on the other side. See, the grass is totally not greener in the Virginia side. - Don't they make water in those little like juice boxes now? Cardboard box water? - Okay. - I have seen, no, I have seen box water. But evidently in Virginia, it's easier to recycle aluminum than it is plastic. So we're going to be transitioning to, they're getting rid of all single use plastics. - Does that mean you're going to get gatorade cans again? Go back to gatorade cans? - Yeah, they're on the team's own website already. - Wow. - Lemon lime, orange and fruit punch. - Yep. - What's your, what would you tell your pre-regulation self? - Randy. - See, that's the struggle is that the three that went in front actually told my pre-regulation self what I would have said, or a D-regulation self. Go slow and be careful what you're wishing for. - All right, Leah Allison. - I mean, I agree. I think so. I mean, just what Randy said, I think those three sounded up pretty nicely. I mean, I think maybe just persistence, patience, all that stuff, which yeah, I think I have persistent, pretty patiently. So. - Well, amazing. Thank you all so much for your time today. This was just so insightful and hopefully, I mean, anyone that's listening will just know that when you go to the CPSTA website and you get a handout, not to take that handout for granted on hydration because it wasn't there in the 1900s. But seriously, I never thought of thinking about that. I'm like, oh, I got this resource. But it started-- - Look at about Google images. There was no Google images to create those handouts. There was a time we had clip art books that you would copy, cut out, and tape to purge. - Totally what that absolutely cut out. - Every self publisher, that was like, that was like today's Canva publisher. - I was gonna say that's what that sounds like. - And hopefully, hopefully everybody can gather from our conversation how much we enjoy being around each other and talking to each other too. So this is fun. I'm so glad you put this together Liz. - Yeah, I would echo what Randy said and that, like just, I don't know, I think the passion we all have, and just kind of really not to be corny, but like the love for each other. I mean, it's like long-lost relatives when we see each other and people did such and continue to do such great work. But these are some of the trailblazers for the profession and it's so cool to see where everybody continues to trailblaze and I don't know, it's just so inspiring to see and reminisce about where we were and where things have come. Like you forget in a short period of time, for me it's like 22 years what's happened and it's been like, in any other profession, this is like fast forward, super fast speed, warp speed and it's just amazing at how far things have come for our student athletes and what we've done for the profession. - We've grown up together. - Yeah. - Definitely. - Amazing. Well thank you all so much for your time and have a great rest of your week. - Thank you Liz. - Thank you Liz. - Thank you Liz. (upbeat music) - Thank you so much for listening to this episode on Sports Artie's snippets. I hope you found our conversation helpful today. If you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the podcast on Apple or Spotify. Share the podcast or tell another Sports Artie to be or Sports Dietitian about it. If you can rate and review the podcast, it really helps the show and is much appreciated. Remember to follow along on Instagram at SportsArtie's snippets to see what SportsArtie guests is featured each week. I'm super excited to bring out my upcoming guests so stay tuned. I'm Liz Waluka and thanks so much for listening. (upbeat music) - Hey everyone, I wanted to remind you that today's episode is sponsored by Momentus. Make sure you check out their website at livemomentus.com and use the exclusive code RGStipets.com for 20% off your order. Thank you so much for listening and I'll be back in two weeks for the one year anniversary episode of the pod.