Pandora: Brand Perception & Channel Selection

From consumer insights across the world to the latest tactics and trends, you're listening to leap into luxury, the go-to marketing forecast for luxury brands. I'm MJ and today we're talking to Louise Barber, digital marketing manager for Pandora, and Hattiesmith Pandora's Media Marketing Manager. Thank you both so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to have you. So obviously anybody born before the noughties? Which may or may not be me. No, it's about Pandora's iconic charm bracelets. They were absolutely everywhere. Actually, I'm visiting in store as a young girl, such a fun experience for me. I remember it so well as I'm sure many others do too. But in more recent years, the brand has had to adapt to stay relevant to today's consumer. So you're currently in the crux of a fairly critical brand glow up at the moment. Can you tell us a bit more about this and why it's so pivotal for Pandora's future? Yeah, we also have the exact same memories of Pandora from when we were younger and going in store and seeing all of the little charms on the little leather beds racked up. And that's the memories that I suppose everyone our age has. So what we've really tried to do in recent years is a number of different tactics to get more people into the brand and make sure that we're constantly getting new consumers. So one of the first things that we've done is to just diversify what we're selling. We've been historically known for like silver charms and bracelets. But actually at this point, we offer so much more. We have products that would suit literally everyone. Yeah, so many products on there. So you've got your new lab-grown diamonds as well, actually. And lab-grown diamonds, we've actually had that for say like a few years now. We've just kind of tried to reposition it a little bit, obviously with the Pamela Andersen collab, which has been amazing. And I think as Louise was saying as a brand, we've really realised that we kind of need to reposition. I think sometimes how we pitch things and we've been really looking at say charms as more of an elevated sort of jewelry piece. Obviously we've got so much to fit so many styles and that we think actually kind of fits everybody really. But with charms, especially we've been kind of trying to show them in a more sort of high fashion way. And we've done a lot of work with Copenhagen Flash Fashion Week and got some great content there. We've really worked as a brand to try and make our comms more consistent. I know that we've had some triple sort of with comms across touch points, feeling really kind of disjointed. And your logo is your biggest asset. How can we make sure that we're kind of, we've got creative that looks like, you know, if you saw it in one channel versus another, you would know it was from the same brand. And I think that was something that we were really missing. We've also worked from a media perspective as well. And obviously Louise can talk about this. From a linear point of view, from a TV perspective, we've really made sure that we haven't always on presence across TV as well. And we've also, and digital. That's refreshing to hear about, exactly. Yeah. Because it's kind of something that people are moving away from. Yeah, exactly. But still accounts for the biggest amount of brand awareness out there at the moment. Exactly. And we have like a really broad range of customers, like we said, we've got lots of different products. We should be out there appealing to everybody, totally. I think Roaz is driving a shift towards digital, which I totally get from a brand perspective. You need to demonstrate that ROI to your finance director, but there is something to be said for that brand story telling piece. And TV is so important in that. There are so many mediums that you can do that on as well now. When you've got such bite size kind of content going through on your digital ads or, you know, TikTok ads and things for somebody to sit and actually immerse themselves in a brand and its story and what you're trying to present. It's so hard these days with the media that are becoming more effective. Yeah, totally. I think as well Pandora understands the importance of storytelling. A huge part of Pandora's business is the idea that you can give a power to people's passions and loves. And within that there is a bigger story to be told. So I think it's a really, really important medium, but we just have to keep on top of it. Because it's a medium that's changing all the time. Even if it's traditional, it's going a lot for different platforms. So I think a real sort of challenge for us is making sure that we are on top of it and making sure that we're keeping up with the trends and kind of what people are watching basically. So this kind of shift in brand positioning, I suppose, about what we'd call it. Is that seeing you enter into different markets with different consumer profiles? Yeah, so I think from us, and I think this feeds into the whole TV approach, is that our target consumer is essentially all women. And that's the direction that we get internally, is that we want every single woman to either want to buy Pandora or want to buy Pandora for a loved one or ask their partner to buy one for them. So essentially we are just looking to touch all consumers. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we, like we said before, we've got such a wide variety of products outside of Charles and Carriers, which is kind of what we're known for. But you can, like we said, we can go. You can go on Pandora to buy something from a game of Thrones collection. You can go to buy Diamond Ring. There's a lot of diversity there. And I think for us, we're really trying to cement ourselves out of full jewelry house, not just a brand that does one thing, but as a master or craftsman in jewelry. And that's something that we're really, really trying to focus on. We don't want to be constrained to one style or design. We want to be a full jewelry house, really. I mean, so jewelry is a currently estimated at 30 billion euros. That's the current market value within luxury goods. And I think it's a really pivotal time because Gen X and Gen Y are at their peak income years and Gen Z are kind of driving cultural change. So as you're saying, wanting to be the desired object by every woman is a big ask at the moment. And there's a lot of things changing. Do you think that your target consumer profile has changed in recent years? And if so, who are you now trying to appeal to? Essentially, that's the hard direction that we get from the global head office. It's all women. However, we know in our market how important it is to get, I suppose, the under 35s involved in the brand more and re-involve them in the brand if they used to have previous relationships with it. That's the sort of target consumer group that we would all fit within. And we all have those historic memories of Pandora. So it's about recapturing them and also making sure that we have marketing strategies and tactics across the channels where this consumer is. So yes, we talk about TV and it is so great. But we also know that that's not always the best place to catch the younger consumer. So that's why it's so important for us to have that like digital footprint, that mirrors where the consumer is with our market strategies. I'm just going to talk generally about the consumer as well. There's been so many shifts in consumer behaviour. A lot of them now want experiences. It's all about the experience economy. So many of them are now sort of more ethically conscious and as you know, Pandora, we've been doing a lot of storytelling in that space in terms of our kind of craft centres, which are sort of state of the art facilities. We do, we have like a unicef partnership. So we've been trying to dial up certain points building on what Louise said. It's so hard now across the digital space and it has been for years to be honest to get that meaningful attention. But when you do, it's so unbelievably powerful. So there's a really good example of in the Pandora US and essentially a Lana Del Rey fan went into a store and got engraved on a bracelet stargole, which is like the name of a Lana Del Rey interlude. And put it on TikTok that they're done this and this went absolutely viral. I'm just luck talking like millions of likes, shares and as a result, loads of a Lana Del Rey fans then went into store, got the same engraving or their version of it. And it literally was like this huge phenomenon within Pandora. And I think it really shows that when you do engage them or your brand allows them to express themselves, it's so powerful. I mean, we paid for none of that. That was just organic hype. And I think it's a really good example of the virtual and the physical space. There's something being quite actually quite virtual and something that's starting online that then transcends to people physically going into a store. And I think with consumers now, we can kind of speak about Pandora specifically, but I think generally shareability now has been huge for us. It's been a long time. But if your brand allows somebody to share something, you're kind of onto a bit of a winner. And Pandora does that really well. Yeah. And you guys work a lot with influencers as well. Yeah. Your TikTok is very hot right now. I've seen you guys advertising a lot on there, which is something a lot of brands are still to this day quite nervous about, cautious about. But how are you planning on harnessing other modern marketing platforms or activations in general to reach your audience? Baring in mind, obviously, that you are trying to reach a very wide range of people. Are you having to kind of activate per pocket, per platform? How is it all going for you? Yeah, I think this is something that we've been working on really closely recently. We've just changed teams setups internally from having a digital team and having a traditional pit and media team. And now we're all one combined team. And you can really start to see this within our digital plans now. That's so refreshing. Yeah, I'm just saying. We're just trying to have a bit more synergy. Yes, we. That's true. Yeah, we know consumers don't consume media in silos. Yeah, they don't distinguish any more. They expect an omnichannel experience. Especially if you don't work in media. Yeah, you don't think about it. I mean, like when you work in marketing, you go and I saw that on digital, so that on TV. Most people just say, I saw this ad. Or either they see the message. They don't see the platform. Yeah. So we firstly want to be on those platforms and in those spaces, we want to know that certain consumers are certain audiences are easier to find on TikTok. So therefore we should use that to that extent. And then also take advantage of the audience we can capture with TV and then YouTube similarly. So it's bringing those channels together. and then also thinking about the creative we use on those channels as well. Like we can't anymore just use that cut down TVC. Everyone wants to use it but it's just going to be an awkward, not going to be successful. So it's about like. Thank you. I can't believe that people still think that way. They can say it's not like from the roots. Theoretically cost effective because you're saving on production money. But you're not saving on media spend and you're not actually getting the right return that you want. But consumers, modern consumers, they want something that's more personable to them. They don't want something that's been regurgitated. No. And that's not actually speaking to them on a direct level. It just feels so disruptive in a social setting as well. Like if you're seeing it too. I don't know. It just doesn't really sit right. You're like, hold on. This is not why I expect to see in this platform. No. They want platform specific or fit for purpose content. And they want it fit for who they are. And the current kind of place they are in their lives. Which judging by your target consumer, what you said about that means that you must be having. You must be busy. Well, we have a bit that I've already looked at to join Pandora at a time where I don't think it was like that. But it's becoming really consuming first. We're trying to tell good stories on TV, but then really beautiful content on Instagram, which is why people go to that platform. So I think we're getting loads better and that synergy between teams. So that synergy between platforms has really helped that because that working in silos, it just, I think it's just sort of an old way of working, which actually you do campaigns. You don't do. You know, you don't just do separate channel plans. I think what's also important as well is like building that, like, net of creative, but also making sure that it speaks back to the original piece. So it's not just to complete the foreign entities, but actually there's like a red thread that runs between the two of them. So we can see why this TVC is related to the TikTok. It's like ready to wear versus like, "Catua, you've got your two different versions. That's two different channels really well." Yeah, for example, our campaigns have done box. So in the TVC, there was a box and in the Instagram content, there's a box. So again. There's a consistent. There's a separate. There's a consistent, groundbreaking box. But you see it as a same family. It all makes sense. Yeah, exactly. So it is. The right word from Louise, what she said is the thread to keep it all together. Even you're saying that your TikTok, that your influencer work on TikTok is beautiful to see, it's quite a fine line to dance between that high-fi, you know, heavily curated, beautiful stuff that you will put on your Instagram or on TV, versus like, "How me to let go of a lot of those rigid rules and whatever the brand book has been saying for the last decade?" And giving that over to an influencer on TikTok and kind of really embracing that low-fi look, but it sounds like you're doing it really well. And I have seen it as well and it does look beautiful. Your car is a very hard thing to kind of make that still match up with the high-end output that you're delivering. I think what we've seen be really successful with this is like, given the influences of brief, but letting them bring their creativity to it. Yeah. In past times, it's just been sort of, "You do what you want every month, come to the table with something different, but we found it really good challenge in the influencers and saying, "This is generally what we want, but do it in your style and do it the way that suits what your followers want to see." It's authenticity as well. Yeah, that's the key to having any influencer brief, isn't it? It's giving their parameters to work with, but it's saying, "This needs to look like something that looks nice on your feed." We use one of ours, yeah. Like the users follow them for a reason, and they want to see their content even if it's in partnership with brand. Totally, yeah. I think that's the sort of a fine line. I think that's still something that a lot of brands are probably figuring out in terms of how you get that balance. I totally get it. It's a nervous thing to hand over your brand guidelines, your brand persona to someone who's not living and breathing it every day, but yeah, anything increasing, it's just becoming more and more important because people expect it. I guess it would be interesting to discuss how you're harnessing that digital consumer journey, and intertwining it with more traditional media methods to form a new overall purchase funnel that is relevant to these consumers, and how they engage with brands nowadays. Yeah, so I think we've touched on this earlier, but it's essentially just trying to map back the consumer journey that they're having. So I'm making sure that we know they're not spending 30 hours of the week searching on Google Search, but we know they might spend 15 hours on TV and 10 hours on TikTok, so it's just about being in the right place at the right time, and we've just discussed about the importance of different creative in those different places, but also thinking about the consumer mindset in those different places, so they want to engage with content and watch something on TikTok, whereas on Metin, they might be willing to start going through the checkout journey, whereas on Search obviously they're already in their consumer mindset ready to check out. So it's just about making sure that we have the right content to appear in the right places for the journey that they're on for the purchase. It's nice to hear it so considered as well. Yeah, we've also had some fun as well trying to merge platforms, so we've recently just done, we sort of did an influencer piece of work, so paid influencer campaign, and we intertwined some of the content with our print partnerships, we have annual print partnerships. So we kind of put some of the influencer content within print, so again, it's trying to merge them channels to try and understand, actually, let's be consistent across channel, but let's kind of switch it up a bit and trial things that haven't been trial before, and just see how that works. Okay, so it sounds like you guys are actually having a lot of fun here, breaking away from the norm a little bit and trialing certain things, and kind of really flexing I suppose, both of what you know about the industry and about marketing, and really trying to push this whole new message to the world. So being given the challenge to reframe a brand through creative and media activity is a dream for anybody in marketing. I mean, it must feel amazing. What will success look like to you guys, and how do you plan to track that through KPIs or brand tracking technology? I mean, what will say to you that this has worked? Yeah, so we, well, I actually before used to work in FMCG, which is super interesting going from that to work in Pandora, like I would say before I'm going from Burr and Cheese to Trans and Brace, and FMCG has very little data on anything that's happening. People aren't buying them on, you know, the company's website, so we don't really have that much. Whereas at Pandora, they have a wealth of data. It's so much information and so many different touch points that we can tune into. It's really helpful. We have some like long term MMM's that we can use that are always like super helpful for that long term perspective. You know, understand the value of TV is super important with that piece. We also have short term MMM's as well, and really, really vital for no one went to invest that extra bit of cash into search or social. We have internal brand tracking as well, which updates on a monthly basis, which is fab, because that's like those softer brand metrics that you can't really pick up in like a normal MMM. No, you know, it's more kind of sort of brand consideration and things like that. And I think we've obviously tried to do a lot of work that like you said, it kind of deviates from the norm. And the success would look like actually quantifying some of that and going hold on a minute. We know this has worked. And we've actually kind of done a study that showed that we've got a long way to go in terms of building a wider sort of framework that allows us to do it say across a year. But I think we're making really good headway. And like Louise says, we've got so much data that it allows us to be really like, we know this works, we know this didn't. And you know, Pandora is really invested in making sure that everything we do kind of has meaning. And you know, it's all sort of building towards where we want to go. I think also as well, one of the key KPIs for us in the UK is driving consideration for Pandora. The awareness is so high. Everyone knows the Pandora brand, as you said, like the top search jealry brand. So it's about making sure that we're seeing that mark change in consideration year on year. And particularly for the sort of under 35 audience to start to get them to consider Pandora is like one of their top jealry brands. And it's what you're aiming. Because I think as well, as it bringing new people into the brand that you future proofing the brand, I mean, every brand has to think about, you know, their future audience and how you're going to keep, you know, enticing people whilst also making sure that you cater towards your current audience. And they have a good experience. So it's always going to be really, really challenging. But I think we're making really good headway and kind of trying to harness sort of consideration within that kind of course segment for us. Okay, so what are the challenges that you're finding at the moment alongside those sort of those exciting wins that you're experiencing? A big challenge that we have obviously is like every brand has its competition, you know, the market. There was so many other sort of new and emerging brands out there as well as sort of traditional brands. So it's really trying to just stay ahead of it and making sure that you're kind of showing your competitive advantage. Why Pandora? Or, you know, what we got that maybe other brands haven't and we do have a lot of like really sort of redeeming attributes that people don't know about, which is again, where we're really trying to sort of, you know, tell more stories about kind of craftsmanship and sustainability and things like that. But the one of the biggest challenges that I know obviously Louise has been spearheading is, you know, bringing in that kind of new consumer to site. Yeah, so that's massive for us next year. It's one of our key KPIs across the entire business globally is just bringing in that new consumer and then also understanding what their journey looks like and how it's actually very different from from the non-consumer, we have that core audience who'll come every single month and buy a Pandora charm, but we're never going to grow as a business if we can just retain that group. We need to bring in new consumers and then it's like what happens, like what content attracts them firstly and it's different from what attracts our usual consumer. And then when they come through to site, their journey isn't going to be like the standard consumers, they're not going to check out straight away. So how do we understand that this is a new consumer and not like a bounced click or like bad traffic or anything like that and understanding how their purchase journey might be different and how do we interpret this full thing. So that's really like the big challenge that we have for 2024. Okay, season two, you're coming back on to talk about what you're doing. Yeah, we've had the series we've had chats about, netaverse, chats about discord communities, chats about in-store experiences and TikTok searches and everything that Gen Z and Gen A are kind of looking towards and responding to right now. And it's wearing a lot of market here, so it's spreading a lot of teams thinly. And it's something that everybody's kind of having to panic deal with right now because they are such a new and different generation. But there's so much spend there or spend potential. And when they align with a brand, they can be incredibly loyal. Yeah, so it's getting to them early on and it's getting to them where they are with the message that they want to receive that's going to be the most effective. So season two, looking you in. Because everyone wants to know. You mentioned earlier about the different expectations from consumers and how they want to interact with brands and the experience side of things is something that I know recently you've learnt into very well. I saw your art of love's, um, fidgetal campaign. Is that all we'll call it? Yeah, I got you, I got you. I got you. I got you. fidgetal. Yeah, I've never had that before before. But we'll go with it. I don't think I coined it. I wish I could say I was an original. I mean, jewelry is so often an emotional purchase and whether that's just for yourself or as a gift, you know, there's often a level of sentiment driving purchase. And I think that that experiential campaign that you did on the South Bank really engaged customers in the right way that kind of demonstrated that. Can you tell our listeners about that particular activation? And also, I guess, how else that sentimental driver has been an important consideration when creating your marketing strategy? Yeah, totally. So as part of our holiday campaign, which was loved in box, which has centered really around giving loves to gifting and to come at opening the box and how you can facilitate your loves really, which is a huge part of Pandora's whole strategy, really, and ethos. So we wanted to bring this loved unboxed idea to life. And what we did is we worked with a company that helped us create this an actual box. It was called The Art of Loves and essentially it was kind of made it like a Pandora box, so very, very in theme. And within that was a sort of a mini art exhibition. So we commissioned five different artists, all UK based artists to do a piece or, you know, whatever there was with a sculpture or digital to do a piece that really represented what love meant for them. So it was really trying to kind of empower artists but also really sort of bring to life the notion of the campaign. And within that, people could come in from the street because it was on Tower Bridge. I don't remember the public can come in. They could look at the exhibition but they also have the opportunity to create their own wrapping papers so they could draw and create something personal to them again, building on that personalisation. And also they could write a message that was on the outside of the screen and apparently there was a proposal. Again, it was really just trying to-- In the Pandora ring. So again, it's really trying to build on that idea and bring that sort of campaign notion to life really. Again, it comes around to that shareability. People love shareability and that's a big shift we've seen in audience behaviour and actually it's a brand how you can capitalise on that. And when you do it well, it can be so, so powerful. I think also the key thing with that is it's like super sentimental. Yeah. And that's how Pandora sees itself and be in sync. That's personalised, sentimental and well thought through which I think that's what that was. Yeah. And I guess it's also like you engage with customers in quite a physical way a lot of the time. I don't know about most people but I would guess like me when you're buying jewelry, you would prefer to do it in person. You know, you want to try things on that you want that interaction with the physical product. And I've seen that you are planning to increase your store presence by 3% over the next three years. So it's clearly something that you guys are aware of. Why do you think that the physical presence is such an important factor for the brand and will continue to be so? I think there's got a few reasons for this. One of the main ones is there is such a big, good training programme for the store staff. So they have to go through a real programme before they can even go on the shop floor. And this really allows for that sort of unique Pandora experience, which is so sort of catered to one customer. So when it comes to Pandora stores, every bit of jewelry has to be, you can't touch any jewelry yourself. Every bit of jewelry that is sold passes through the hands of our store staff, which is actually, you know, crazy when you think about how busy and how much jewelry is sold. Yes, they've seen those cues. Exactly. That every, every person is then being served by another individual person, which again is what makes I think Pandora so, so unique. I also think as well, we actually have to do like experience at a store, as part of just understanding the brand. And a real interesting thing for me was obviously, like you said, jewelry is really personal. So a lot of people want to see it, look at it. Especially if you're collecting something or collecting charms, you want to know how it looks on the rest of the bracelet, on the carrier. I would say what was really interesting is so many people were coming into store knowing exactly what they were going to gain, which shows that real omnichannel is that they probably looked online, they know exactly what they're going to get, and they're going to go into a store to get it. So I thought that was really, really interesting that it seems to be that kind of, yeah, that sort of omnichannel exactly is that they're using both mediums, not necessarily to purchase but to browse and then to go in. It's interesting in a world where we, you know, everyone says we're trying to make things easier, less interaction, easier, quickly faster, but actually this completely books that trend and people still want to have like a multi-touch point experience with you. Yeah, no, exactly. And a lot of the people that there was a group within the marketing team, they went to another store, but in that store it was a bit more, it was smaller and a bit more local. And you know, the staff knew most people by name, which is really nice. So nice. And I think in end sort of this, I don't want to say this day and age, but it's quite rare. Yeah. Because everything is on, most things are online, a lot of retail sites in the States are going. So it's a really nice change. I think it probably what sort of sets Pandora Parts. This is quite refreshing to hear actually because obviously we're seeing a lot of stores kind of pulling back on their presence at the moment. It is a costly kind of physical presence to have, but we are seeing obviously that this new and upcoming generation are really craving a more personal interactive experience that they, I suppose they can't get as well online. I know that a lot of brands are kind of working on that about making their online purchase journey and more of an immersive experience, but nothing kind of beats that in person activation, like what you've done on London South Bank. And there are a lot more kind of experiential activations that are happening now, especially post lockdown when everything just kind of shut down. And that's when everything moved digital. We are seeing a lot more now, this experiential activation. With that in mind, if you had an infinite marketing budget, like the limit does not exist, it is endless amounts of money. What are you doing with it? We've actually written some notes here on this, but we put a partnership with Glastonbury by I think much just because we want to kick it. I'm in support of that. Yeah, my idea was we worked with some big name like potentially Rihanna. And we're the personal team. So we, she's headlining Glastonbury, we're sponsoring that. And then that, with everything else step of the way. We work on the Fenty Beach. Yeah, I launched Fenty about 25 years ago. And there's some people. We also said there's, you know, the sphere in Vegas. Yeah, something like that is really cool. I'm just obsessed with that. But I'm there. Have you seen that? Yeah, I'm not here. You cannot be on the ground. It's a half on. We also was like working with Pam Randerson, but we already do that. I think she's in a nice mood. It's such a hard one, isn't it? If the sky's the limit, I don't even know. I'd say Rihanna is pretty good. Yeah. I thought you were Rihanna. It would be a big name partnership for me. Yeah. With some one-note super famous. It's so funny. Everyone always says partnerships this year. We've asked this question a couple of times now. And they go straight to the light, yeah, Beyonce. Yeah. Yeah. And then my stuff on Beyonce. It's so fun. It's so fun. The one's in it, like, in reality, it might be like, oh, I'm going to be on TV every single day, probably single-sake, I was thinking that, but it's like, okay, that's slightly less fun. Yeah. And I'm not in Vegas when that happens. I think when you say sky's the limit as well, you just think of really dramatic, like, oh, my god, celebrities. I just know that that's just a mixed of mind. - Amazing. - Well, thank you so much for coming in and chatting. It's been a really great episode. We'll grab you back for season two. - Yeah, I wanna hear about you. - Gen Z Gen A strategy. - Yeah, thank you for joining us. It's been such a pleasure to learn about like the kind of pivot you guys are doing at the moment. You're driving a lot of exciting change. So I can't wait to see how it plays out. - It's gonna go cool, Rihanna, for you. - Oh my God, thank you. - Thank you, thanks, Kai. (laughing) - I'm holding you to us. - Yes. - If you enjoyed this episode, follow us at Leap Interluxury Podcast on Instagram to find out who we'll be speaking to next. (upbeat music)