Palace pull off Liverpool hat-trick, plus the Premier League previewed: Football Weekly Extra

This is The Guardian. Hello and welcome to Guardian Football Weekly. Dust down the Carabao box and hear it sing. Crystal Palace knock a very young Liverpool side out of the competition at Anfield. Does this add to the crisis? Didana Slott picked such an inexperienced team and bench so that it wouldn't matter if they lost. Palace's prize is a trip to the Emirates in the quarter-final. After Arsenal rode their luck early on before beating Brighton and another clean sheet for Miquel Arterre. Chelsea winner not quite classic 4-3 at Wolves while Holder's new cast will comfortably see off Spurs. Thomas Frank's next job is to get Spurs up for Chelsea at home in a game they routinely lose. Elsewhere, Man City Bournemouth looks interesting as does Forrest Manchester United and Liverpool Villa. You and Murray joins us to discuss the Celtic madness and we'll discuss whether there should be a countdown clock for long throws. We've had excellent correspondence including some divorced Belgian adjacent stuff. As always, we'll answer your questions and that's today's Guardian Football Week leave. On the panel today, Barry Glendennig, welcome. Hi, Max. Hello, Jordan Jarrett-Brian. Morning, mate. And good morning to Robin Cowan. Morning, Max. OK, the quarter-final draw, then new cast will play Fulham, Manchester City Brentford, Cardiff City, Chelsea and Arsenal. Crystal Palace, only one place to start which is at Anfield. Steve says, "As a Liverpool fan, I made the decision to watch last night's bake-off instead. Trater starts in a minute. Was this a better use of my time or should I have jumped out the window?" He says, "Toddy says, should Liverpool sign Ismael Assar just to stop him scoring against them? Seven in nine for Assar against Liverpool for Palace and for Watford." And I suppose we should start, Robin, by praising Crystal Palace. I mean, third time in a row, they've beaten Liverpool. If you include the Community Shield, which I guess we can. Assar's second was a beautiful goal. That one too with Jeremy Pino, who looks like a really good player. And look, Palace hadn't been on great form either. But clearly, as soon as you saw the starting line-ups, you were like, "They'll probably win." Yeah, I mean, I think we should credit Palace because even though, yes, Liverpool obviously rotated a lot and didn't really have any big names on the bench either. They still had to get the job done, it's still at Anfield and they dispatched them really well. They also made quite a lot of changes as well, Crystal Palace. But actually, it's just a show of, they don't have amazing depth in Premier League terms. But still, you had Will Hughes coming in, he hasn't played much this season. He's a very, very good midfielder, Sosa as well. So actually, they're just a very, very well-coached team. And clearly, Liverpool had a couple of chances early on, didn't they? But then it just seems to be, they concede and then they kind of... I wouldn't say fall apart, that might be a bit too dramatic. But they kind of floodgates open and they just seem to be a bit soft at the moment. Again, with the massive caveat that they clearly changed the team a lot. And yeah, the discourse around this is very interesting, isn't it? And I think, yeah, you said your intro did it on purpose and I'm just thinking, if he did, then fine, you know? But is that a bad thing? Because actually, if they'd put out the strong team and they lost, that possibly would have caused more damage? Sure. And I suppose no guarantees that had they put out their first team, they'd have won this game given the form that they're on. With apologies to Palace, the story is Liverpool, Barry, isn't it? And look, they started three teenagers, they had five others on the bench. And so it was such an inexperienced side. And so it's hard to gauge, is this a totally disconnected performance from the crisis elsewhere? And should we compartmentalise it in the Carabao box that we can't find? Or does this, you know, it's it's not totally unconnected, surely? I think it is. I don't think it's in any way related to the current slump in form. Maybe if they hadn't lost four Premier League games in a row and we're on a winning streak, he would have feel it a strong routine. But I totally get why he's a lot rested all the players, the senior players. Because before this, four of five of Liverpool's last six games were away from home, London, Istanbul, London, Frankfurt, London. He's given rest to the players. People are saying, ah, but he should have had them on the bench so that they could come on if things went sideways as they did. But if you have them on the bench, then you're not resting them. You're not giving them a day off. If if you're a linekeeper in the zoo and you're working really hard and you get a day off, but you have to come in and supervise the understudy linekeeper and be on hand in case he gets mauled by lions. And you have to step in and take over. That's not a day off, is it? It's not a rest because you still have to turn up. You still have to go through all the motions. So I think it was a wise move by slot to rest all those players. Give them the day off. I don't think it really matters that they got knocked out of this competition. He has done this before and. But as soon as you saw the lineups, you sort of thought, yeah, they're going to lose this. It will be quite a feat if they don't. And the Julie did go and lose it. But as Robin said, they started quite well. And then Everton went to hell in the handker very quickly, just before half time. Like a matter of fact, you presume, you know, that's what the supervisor at the zoo often has to do. It's just, oh, no, another one. Another one's been mauled. Another teenager didn't understand. I'll just go in again. Just doesn't clean up this mess. God's sake, someone tell the family. They have to do the subs. Is it like a sort of similar subs warm up? They have to do. It's like kind of very half-hearted. Ah, do I go? He hasn't even got his khaki jacket on. He's not ready. This is the total disgrace. Where do you stand on this, Jordan? You agree with Barry or sort of wider on the. I said, we just don't know until Villa and Villa Real Madrid, both at home and then Man City away, right? That is a tricky set of fixtures. And I suppose it's after them you decide, well, he was smart to rest players or not. Yeah, I don't have an issue with him playing a weekend team. I think he tried something different. I agree. There's no point having the big boys on the bench, because then, as Barry says, that they're not technically being rested then. I'm not sure if it's an issue of being rested, though. I just think it's an issue of just bad form and him working out what their best 11 needs to be. I mean, I must put on the few idiots that still, until yesterday, still believed that they are not out of the title race because my mentality, my thinking would have been this from Liverpool. After all in terms of the league, having shown they can put together 10, 11, 12, winning games when it matters. If we can get to January, with a gap no more than eight, nine points max, bring in a couple of centre-backs, make some really brutal but decisive selection decisions, you never know. But I know, and I get that league and cup of very different competitions, but watching last night's game, they got smashed. They got absolutely battered last night. And I think even though they're out the cup, as you mentioned, the next three games, Villa, Real Madrid and Manchester City, if they lose all three of those games and they could lose all three of those games, you then into the kind of territory that Manchester City were in last season where I think it was nine defeats and 11 when it was at their worst. And then you're looking at a really, really poor, not only poor title defence, but you then kind of dragged into a top four race and to go from Premier League champions to be in a top four race, I think is a really, really bad look. So I don't think getting knocked out of the cup on its own is a particularly big deal. I just think it's the accumulation of games that they could lose, which could really be bad for their season. Just a quick note on Palace, some of their goals are really good. They play some really good football. Their second and third goals, I thought were just like, just beautiful football. And I just wondered if Glasna wants that Liverpool job. So that's three wins now against Liverpool in 12 games and three different stadiums. I wonder if he's got his eye on, you know what, next season, I wonder if I could be in that hot seat at Anfield. - Do you think if he didn't want the Liverpool job, he wouldn't have tried to win? - Well, no, no, of course there's trouble with the game saying, wait, but I just find it funny that he's beaten him three times in three different grounds within 10, 11 games. - Just on the age of the bench, the Sizzler says, has there ever been a higher total of squad numbers than Liverpool's bench tonight? Nine substitutes. I've added up all the squad numbers together. Did anybody like to have to guess? What's the number of nine substitutes? - I'd say around 600. - Oh, 583, very good, Barry, yeah. Arna Slott said, look, I saw cities 11. They didn't have one starter from the weekend, but it felt like their best 11, like 10 changes in city. Like, it's true, city do have depth. That's a bit of an insight. Chelsea can bring in Estavao. After I made two substitutions tonight, we had 16 ages. But I thought Liverpool had loads of debt. I mean, he just didn't, that answer, Robin, is odd, because he could have selected more experienced players. He just didn't select more experienced players. And the interesting question is they play Villa, right? And we'll sort of mix the Carabao Cup stuff with the Premier League preview. Villa on a really good run. And so you've got these three games to Liverpool, and like, there would be no shame in losing any one of those games, right? Losing to Villa, who are playing well, or losing to Real Madrid, or losing to City B. He could lose all three. And I suppose the question is about the pressure on Slott. How much does winning the league... Surely that buys you some time. That's not easy to do. I mean, you'd think so. But it seems like actually some are thinking, "Well, no, he's already kind of busted flush." You know, it is ridiculous. I think the only thing I'd say is he's starting to come out with some slightly strange... Not strange, but like, comments that can be made a joke of, like, "Oh, teams are changing their style against us." It's like, "Well, yeah, they'll do that because you're good." And that's what people, that's what teams do to try and win games. But no, he's got a huge amount of time. I just think last season there was very little adversity for him. Apart from, like, you know, there were some injuries, and also the salar situation was, you know, a lot of noise around that. He's now lost... I just wonder if there's, first of all, too many... Maybe one too many changes to the squad. In terms of, like, you know, let's give him some time to try and see. Because if it clicks, you feel like it will really click. You know, they've got so much talent in that squad. But, you know, they lost Alexander-Arnold, Darwin Nunes. I know, you know, it wasn't, you know, contributing loads. But then Diaz, Elliot, it's just a lot of turnover, isn't it? And the other thing is, again, we need to say, he's dealing with the biggest bit of adversity that you can in grief with, you know, Diogo Jota. So I just think it's a very unique situation he finds himself in. But, as we know, if, as Jordan just said, they lose these next three games, then, yes, of course, the pressure's going to come on him. How do you think the Villa game will go back? I don't know is the answer. But I do know Villa's record at Anfield is atrocious. Villa's record against reigning champions away from home is atrocious. But they are on a run of four wins in a row in the Premier League. And Liverpool are on a run of four defeats in a row. So I don't know how it'll go. I haven't a clue. But Villa do have a terrible record at Anfield. Recent record, anyway. I suppose since the last, since Matty Cash did that amazing pass and then that great goal was right foot and left foot. And it's the money should be on some sort of extraordinary headed winner for Matty Cash or something like that. So look, that's Liverpool, Villa. Palace played Brentford there into the quarterfinals as well after a five-nil win at Grimsby. If you watch the highlights, it just looked like one team were just much better than the other one. And they were. Brentford won four and five. Palace hadn't won in four before that Grimsby game. Chelsea won four, three at Wolves. This Robin was a fun game. It needed to go three, three, then four, three to be a classic. But it was still like Wolves made it fun after looking after sort of wilting in the first half. I mean, a dreadful defending. I think this is the problem with Wolves, actually. They looked like they can score, you know, and they showed that against Burnley as well. When, you know, the last game where, you know, they possibly should have settled for a point. They pretty felt like they couldn't. And then they kind of got caught and they lost. But no, just very off, just bad defensively. But I saw a post from Steve Maitley at Athletic who said, "It was a bizarre build-up to the game at Mollinyu. "Eleven changes, including four centre-backs "and two win-backs now for Wolves." And then he said, "There was also a light and dance show "to build up the atmosphere, which was not... "which he says was very much at odds with the prevailing mood. "You just think a caribou cup game, "when you're on a crap run and you decide to pop on a light show." Yeah, I mean, that's, I'd say I'd question that. It would have to be such a good light show, wouldn't it? It'd have to be bloody brilliant, like Coldplay. To get to turn Michelle Jar. To turn people around. People are like, "I don't want this shit." And then something like, "Well, actually, hang on a sec. "Hang on, Dave. This is something else, you know?" Yeah, I'm up for this caribou cup now. Then when they end the light show for kick-off, the crowd start booing. More light show, please. Leave en masse, yeah. I mean, the highlight of this game, I guess, Barry, was the Jamie Gittins goal. Owen says, actually, like, "Granted no one likes a snitch, "but, Max, I need to report that Chelsea's official accountants "referred to Gittins' goal as a volley." Categorically a half volley, but he hit that beautifully. Well, it wasn't a half volley. So we've had this debate before, because it had bounced up quite high. That is not a half volley. I need to watch it again. You carry on. Yeah, so for a half volley, ball has to be still in contact with ground, in my opinion. It certainly wasn't, but it was a brilliant strike off the outside of his right boot, fizz past the keeper. I'll be honest, my favourite ball here, and there's just the world of football journalism is swamped at the moment with articles about the return of the long throw. Tony Puelis wrote a column for the BBC in, you know, needless to say, "I had the last laugh column." What a prescient signing that was to get Puelis in. Well done. He went full partridge. People used to call me a dinosaur, eh? But anyway, my favourite goal was, so was the Mosqueiro long throw. And then, like a stone being skimmed across the lake, the ball just went from one head to another head to another head, and then dropped for David Moller-Wulfa at the far post, and he spanked it home. I prefer that goal to Gittings. I'm prepared to concede Gittings was the more difficult strike and the more visually aesthetically pleasing. But for me, the long throw that skimmed across the lake was the better goal. On the technicality, Gittings, it's bounced a couple of times, but he hits it right on A-bounce, so it's still in the half volley bracket for me. Did anybody get, like, C-save vibes against Orinicky Chelsea? Remember that goal outside of a bridge? Oh, a little bit, yeah. It's the other corner, but I know what you mean, yeah. It's the other corner, yeah. It reminded me of that goal. I loved that technique, because it was amazing. My only takeaway from this game was, how stupid is the lap? If I'm the manager, I'm raging. He was, Mosqueiro is. He says, look, he says, he called it stupid and completely deserved. He said, after the yellow card, I told him four or five times to keep calm. But Liam is a player that when he's inside the pitch, probably he'll be playing the game for himself, and he struggles to realise and to listen around him, which I guess is quite damning for your manager to say, he's selfish and stupid, isn't he? Yeah, he's a thicko. Yeah. Basically, I mean, the second yellow card could have argued in a red card in and of itself. I agree. I think both of them could have been, actually. Yeah, yeah. It's so, I'd be, yeah. I mean, he was livid from those quotes there, Max, but you're short up front with the person I was at is, you're on a bit of a weird run, generally. The last thing you need is a player you've been waiting to come back to now get himself suspended for, is it one or three? I think it's one. He's suspended for the Spurs game on Saturday. So let's look ahead to that after we've done Spurs Defeat at Newcastle. You tweeted yesterday, Barry, or you blue-skied, you woke libtard. Jed Spence tying his laces is being discussed at great and tedious lengths by adults on Sky tuned into the Guardian for a week tomorrow, where it'll almost certainly be discussed at even more tedious lengths by other adults. Yeah, I mean, it was, I mean, it's the story of the first guy. I mean, Newcastle deserves this. I've watched it. Spurs were pretty average. I thought even if the stats said they had more shots than shots and targets, late in the game, they got some saves out of Ramsdale. But the first goal, which is always important, was basically down to Jed Spence tying his shoelaces for what felt like 25 minutes. Well, I'm not sure it was, but that's the narrative afterwards. Newcastle had a corner. Sandro Tanali was waiting to take it and about five yards away from him. Jed Spence, who had lost his boot in a while challenging for the ball in the build-up to the corner, was tying his shoelace. I don't know if Jed Spence just isn't very good at tying his shoelaces, but it doesn't take me that long to tie a shoelace, put it that way. And I wouldn't say I'm brilliant at it, but... - How brilliant would you say that? - Where would you rank? - What's your world ranking? - I don't know. I have the clue, but... Yeah, so he was kneeling down, taking an age to tie his shoelace. I think it was... took him over a minute. And then he stood up and just... - Did he even jog a slow jog? - I would say amble. - I would say amble. - An amble back towards the mixer. And while he was mid-amble, Chenali got the signal to take the corner, sent it in, Fabian Scherr rose highest above Bergvall and Thom Tome, a header. Now I don't know if the presence of Jed Spence on the edge of that six-yard box or in that penalty area would have made any difference, but the fact of the matter is he wasn't there. Loads of Tottenham players complained to the referee, Chris Kavanaugh. After the game, Thomas Frank said, "I have spoken to Chris about it, "and we will keep that between Chris and I." Now I really want to know what was said, because he's made what I'm certain was a very banal conversation between him and Chris Kavanaugh sound incredibly interesting. - Sound like Frost Nixon. - A bit of insight, actually. Thomas Frank goes to speak to the referee after every single game, no matter what happens, so he's quite late to interviews post-match. In a way, that's good, because it's annoying when you get feedback from a boss when you haven't heard from them for like 25 years, and they go, "I hated that bit you did." And you go, "Well, what about all the good bits I've done?" - I wonder who you could be talking about, Max. - You are speaking my language. When you see your phone, you think, "Oh, no, it's never good news." - Never good news. - Never good. - But if Thomas Frank always goes in. - Every single time. Unless he always says they've been shit. At least he's building up that, that's good management, if you ask me. Not a lot to make out of this game. I've ultimately scored on another header. It was bad goalkeeping. But I suppose Chelsea now is a really big game, Jordan, for both these teams, actually. Well, if the Guardian listeners remember, I actually had top and finished third in my predicted standings this season. - Stop the count. - Stop the count. And I'm an Arsenal fan, so this is not something that I want to happen. I think, from the top of the point of view, if they have ambitions on trying to get a Champions League spot, I think they have to take advantage of beating a Chelsea team that, as I mentioned earlier, Ron, have been a little bit up and down all over the place, don't have any particularly great forwards in particularly good form at the moment as well. And I think it's an opportunity for Spurs to really assert themselves as one of those key Champions League-chasing sides. For Chelsea, yeah, I mean, those that did say at the start of the season, they were in the title race, this is the sort of game they need to win. If they do have any lingering feelings of being in that race, I think it would end up a draw, which I don't think is the worst result for either side. There is a sense of disquiet at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium, Robin. I guess because most of Spurs' points have come away from home. You go to all the home games, you're sort of a bit sad to see another disappointing defeat. But I feel like the attackers they brought in, none of them have really, apart from Kudas aside, none of them have really clicked, I think. Yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it? Because clearly the Premier League season last year was a total disaster, wasn't it? And you've got to think that actually with this new era, and you know, Tony Pulas being brought back to do Columns for the BBC, that Thomas Frank is the perfect custodian for this, really. Yeah, I get your point, I think it is. The feeling is very much if you're a season ticket holder and you're not so good at home and better away, I think it gets amplified, definitely. And maybe they haven't been so good, but beat Chelsea, it'll all be. Is this at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium? Yeah, yeah. Because this was the scene of that absolutely mental game. The High Line, yes, yeah, the amazing nine men High Line. You'll never see anything like that again. Two years ago? Yeah, that was when the wheels fell off, actually. That was, actually, the wheels completely falling off, yeah, and drain at Spurs. Newcastle, obviously, beats Spurs, go to West Ham, is that on Sunday, Robin? Yes, I'll be there. No, you're going. Do you think you'll be the only person left in the stadium? Well, I might be the only one left in the stands. I'm just thinking, is there set to be another mutiny? Do you remember that one a few years ago, when West Ham, was it at Beds Burnley? And Mark Noble was kind of there, you know, trying to calm things down. He might have to come down from the, because he's a sporting director now. So I'm just thinking, yeah, this is, this could be a real, I mean, shit show, basically. It's just been terrible, haven't they? Newcastle haven't won away from home this season. I think that might change. That's what I'm going to say on Sunday. Yeah, Nuno does need to start winning games. Brandon Rogers is, you know, is sort of wondering about now, isn't he? Wolves, who lost to Chelsea, they go to Fulham at the weekend. Fulham are through to the quarterfinals. They beat Wickham on penalties. Josh King has got an absolute beauty, sort of, not quite as good as Zola, but still a back heel volley from the corner. And then Honoury Laconte, say lots of Wickham's penalties may not have been Honoury Laconte, but it's what it sounded like to me. I just, I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Wolves, because the last two matches have been home games, where they started really badly. The crowd have massively got on their back, then they've made this rousing comeback, got the crowd on side, and lost both games, ultimately. So I'm still convinced there's something there that can be salvaged. And I'm still not convinced Wolves are the worst team in the Premier League, but they really need to win this game. But they're playing a Fulham side who have lost four in a row. And I think if Fulham were to lose this, you know, people at Craven Cottage might start chalking on their olive stones and Homus might have a point. All right, that'll do for part one. Part two, we'll begin at the end. Welcome to part two of the Guardian Football Weekly. In the break, Robin, you can tell us all, because it was funny about West Ham. Yeah, no, apologies. I don't know who posted this, but it just caught my attention that Jarrod Bowen is like the only human being in a Muppets film, which I thought was beautifully absurd. Anyway, to the Emirates, Dancers of Arsenal have become too reliant on goals from open play. They beat Brighton 2-0, two goals in the second half from Monieri and Saka. Jordan Brighton started the game quite well. Actually, Arsenal are probably lucky to get a clean sheet in this game, but it's still a clean sheet, you know, down and started. It's all looking quite rosy for your lot, isn't it? We knew down, Max. We were very lucky in that first 15 minutes, but yeah, we're only a little bit of luck, but it's looking good. Clean sheets galore for the great Arsenal, Dalman got some good minutes and impressed once again. Monieri's finish, I thought, was neat and tidy and there's a nice strike. I was really happy for him because he's gone from when Saka was injured last season to being like the hot guy, to kind of being dropped second half of the season. I know he signed his contract in the summer, but I think to keep him involved and him scoring goals just makes him feel like he is a part of this, because he is one of the young players that is a part of this journey, so I'm glad that he got minutes and a goal. I thought there was one or two more dropping of players than I would have liked. I was wide a little bit at the top at the start of the game. I won't lie. I thought it was slightly weaker than I would have liked, but Nikolai Tete has got the team in the groove. Brighton are no easy team to get past and our record against Brighton in the last few years isn't great, especially at the Emirates. So yeah, to kind of get past them with that team, I thought I thought was very impressive as well. My boy, Marino, I love, I love, I love Niki Marino. That flick to set up that, the second goal I think it was, was just delicious and Lewis Kelly involved in that as well. So yeah, it's all looking good for Arsenal. We're going to do the quad. Well, I was about to ask sort of how, how comfortable does it sit with you that a lot of people are now just saying Arsenal have basically won the league? Not comfortable at all because anybody from here can mess it up. It's Arsenal FC, trust me. I think we just got to focus on ourselves. I think it's a cliche, of course, but I think I also just got to just block out the noise of what's happening with Chelsea City and Liverpool and just focus on doing what they're doing and just build the buffer up. Liverpool will win games again, City will go on a run again, Chelsea will get better. We've just got to make sure that by the time that happens, we've got enough of a buffer and a gap that it doesn't really matter when our dip comes because we will have a dip. We will have a dip for sure, but right now we just look so impregnable at the back and able to score across the board up top. Yeah, it's looking worryingly good for us at the moment. You have an Arsenal podcast, Jordan. What's it called? JJB's Hot Takes? That was my vote, but it got outvoted because the world needs another Arsenal podcast, doesn't it? The Loose Cannons, me and a couple of friends, Turkish and James, we'd like to be with the balanced Arsenal fans, we're not too... We're going to win the league, we're going to set the manager up, get him out. It's more considered, so go check it out on YouTube and all of your podcast platforms. All right, cool. Brighton, by the way, home to Leeds this weekend, Man City won 3-1 at Swansea. There was a bit of hope, wasn't there, Robin, that this could be the big upset? Yeah, yeah. And actually, with the current guys of Manchester City, they're not in the form that they were in last season where you think all this could have happened, but it was great strike, wasn't it, by Franco? I thought, actually, that was my favourite one. That was my favourite one. It was kind of looping, and then in off the post, it was very aesthetically pleasing. And then, yeah, I mean, just Man City just showed their depth, Docu had a big deflection from Docu, Mahmouche, absolutely leathered it, and the Cherokee as well. So I mean, it was fairly comfortable in the end, but it just shows that they are still a little bit vulnerable, Manchester City, and yeah, really supporting their game against Bournemouth. I think it's important, though, that they did have goal scorers that weren't Harland. We know they've got lots of great attackers, but my reasoning for having Liverpool was a bigger contender to our challenge than City was that for the form that Harland's in, he seems to be the only person scoring goals at City when he doesn't score, they don't seem to win games. So I think this was a good game for them to not play him and have multiple other attackers in the back of the net. You mentioned it, Robin, Man City Bournemouth, Barry, which is fascinating, actually. Yeah, it should be a really good game. My only concern about it is Manchester City have won all eight of their Premier League form games against Bournemouth. Bournemouth, I think, have only beaten City once in the Premier League, in 16 meetings. Now, I don't know how much you can read into these historical records, and they probably shouldn't make any difference, but they do, for some reason or other. I'm not sure why. Bournemouth just have been brilliant so far this season, City have been a bit up and down. Erling Harland is obviously on a one-game-goal drought, so I suspect he may rectify that situation on Sunday. I saw on the BBC website, actually, Eli Krupi is looking to score in his fourth consecutive Premier League game for Bournemouth, and if he did score against City, he would become the fourth teenager in Premier League history to score in four more consecutive games. Can you name the other three? Rooney. No. Owen. No. Geeks. No. Are any of them easy? Erm, yeah. Sheerah. Sheerah. No. Ronaldo. No. Two of them are scousers, and one of them played for Liverpool, but is not English. Franny Jeffers. Yes. Oh! I saw it. Thanks so much. I'll put us out of our misery. Robbie Fowler, Franny Jeffers, and Nick Nelka. Ah, interesting. Thank you very much. I enjoyed that little quiz. Jordan, you did an interview with Tyler Adams about the World Cup. It was interesting. Tell us about it. Yes, I sat down with the US men's captain, and it was interesting because I've been trying to get an interview with him for a little while, because as is my remit at Channel Four News, I'm a news sports journalist, so we're the two crossover, and he's someone's going to be at the centre of what's going to be the biggest event next year at the World Cup, and we're seeing what's happening beyond the football, obviously, in that country. I thought we'd be trying to sit down with him and get his thoughts on leading our nation. We spoke about a number of things. It was really interesting on diversity, and how he feels the diversity of the US squad is a massive part of there, is a massive strength of theirs, and why he thinks they can go far in the competition. I asked him, basically, okay, that's all well and good, but the president of your country actually is kind of rowing back a little bit on the whole idea of DEI, so how's that going to work out? He spoke a little bit about pay-to-play. I don't know if you guys know what pay-to-play in the States is. It's to simplify, a very simple system in the States whereby parents have to pay to get their kids to play soccer outside of school for clubs, obviously, here. It's not the same system. I wanted to ask him about that because I feel it makes the sport in the US a lot more middle-class, and it rules out a whole generation of young boys and girls to play soccer in the States, and I don't think it's a good thing. I got his thoughts on that. We spoke about that awkward trophy lift from Donald Trump and Reese James that moment at the Club World Cup final, and asked him how long he would give it before he would wait for Donald Trump to exit the stage and not photobomb his big moment, should they become world champions. But I just found a very articulate, interesting young guy that has some thoughts on things beyond football, and I think, as we all know in this country, it's very difficult to get athletes in the UK, in my opinion, to really speak on issues beyond their game with any particular intellect, in my opinion. Now, that might be because they don't really have the intellect, or it might be because they don't want to speak about wider things, but a lot of the US-based athletes are very interesting when it comes to speaking about things beyond sport, so I found him interesting, and yeah, hopefully he'll get to the World Cup, fit and healthy to lead his nation on home soil. Just on Pep and set pieces, he did some good stuff in the presser, talking about Sean Dice and the So So Good. He was, in fact, so, so good about Dice, Aladise, Pulis, you know, I remember a long time ago with Dice, Burnley were an incredible threat in long balls, second balls. Dice is one of the best by far in these kind of aspects. It's not new or Sam Aladise, so I remember when I was not here, Stoke City. Do you remember Stoke City when they made the throws? It happened in that time, and he went on and on. But on the subject of long throws, I fab and I looking at how long it takes, Barry, it took Brent for ten minutes to take nine throws against Liverpool, which actually, I mean, fully admiration for that. But I fab have discussed the possibility of limiting how long a player can spend on a throw-in. They want the ball to stay in play, I kind of get it. According to stats performed, there were more than twice as many long throws in the Premier League the opening weeks of this season compared with last season as a whole, which is a massive jump, isn't it? Do you care or would you like to see a big countdown while Michael Coyote is, you know, arching his back? Personally, I don't care. I've never watched someone drive the ball with a towel and wait for everyone to get in position and then take their big long run-up and launch the ball trebuchet style into the box. I've never found myself going, "Oh, this is a waste of time. I wish I'd get on with it." I probably would if it was happening against my team and they were losing and there was a long left. But I would suggest there are far more pressing issues that I fab should be turning their attention to in terms of the laws of the game than how long it takes somebody to take a throw-in. I mean, if it gets to a point where, you know, Michael Coyote is taking eight minutes to take a throw-in, then yes, I guess I think it should probably be left up to individual referees discretion so that they can apply the common sense we all want. But then we also want consistency and obviously you cannot have both. I think it should be left to individual referees discretion. If they think someone has taken the piss, then get them to hurry up. Otherwise, I think it's fine. - I fab, sort out the handball law. - Yes, please. - Preach. - Preach. - Preach. - Preach. Preach. One of the game in the Carabao Cardiff City 121 at Wrexham, which is, you know, big in Wales, bragging rights terms, Cardiff doing really well in League One, Wrexham doing OK in the championship. I actually watched this game. I was hugely impressed with Cardiff. They absolutely massacred Wrexham in the first half. But they only had a one-nil lead at halftime. They should have been three or four up at least. Reuben Calwell, brilliant player. Far too good for League One. I'm basing this on the evidence of one 45-minute performance. Yeah, Kiefer Moore scored against his former club, Cardiff with a header shortly after halftime. But Cardiff won it in the end and deservedly so. Very impressed by them. Yeah, they're the only non-premier league sides left in the competition. Four more games we haven't talked about. Forest Man United, Brighton Leeds, Fulham Wolves, Sondland Everton, which is on Monday night. It's worth the word on Forest Man United because there's all sorts of fun. Whatever happens, there'll be fun stories off the back of it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now, Sean Dyson's back especially. Again, our Manchester United back. I think this will be another test. Although, again, if they win, they'll still say, "Well, people will say, "Well, Forests aren't in great shape." Although, they look slightly better than they did. Although, not a great result against Bournemouth at the weekend. So, no, no, this should be fun. I'm very scared that Manchester United are, in fact, looking quite good. A little bit concerned by that. Just on the iFab thing, they'll apply it to tying the laces as well. You will add two and a half minutes. Because if you do them really well, who knows? Maybe deadspin was ambling slowly because he just thought, "Wow, my feet are so ensconced in this boot. I've done this so..." Ah, Newcastle have scored. Anyway, that'll be for part two. Part three, we go to the Jazz Bar, and you and Murray are standing by. Welcome to part three of the Guardian Football Weekly. Let's talk to our Scottish football correspondent, you and Murray. Have you had a busy week, you and? Yes, I've had quite a few weeks, Mike, so that's fair to say. How are you? I'm all right, thanks. Let's start with Celtic then. They beat Fullcoke last night, 4-0, the Martin O'Neill effect. But let's go back to the start of the week. Brendan Rodgers resigned. This is an incredible statement from Principal Shareholder Dermot Desmond, eviscerating Brendan Rodgers. I just wondered what you felt about what happened. Where to begin? I mean, the most remarkable thing is that Martin O'Neill's return to the Celtic dugout, age 73, is not the most remarkable thing. Because otherwise, that would be quite stunning. I've never seen anything like this in football. But I think that's something. Had Brendan Rodgers resigned on Monday, they'd just lost 3-1 to Hartster, 8 points behind in the league. Had he resigned and the club had said, you know, we were aligned differently in terms of how we saw the club going. Brendan was going to leave in the summer anyway, and we thought it was better to expedite that process, something like that. Or even actually the initial statement the club put out, which was kind of mundane enough. I think people would have said fine and got on with stuff. And the statement put out in the club's website within 15 minutes of the Resume Nation being announced was extraordinary. Absolutely extraordinary. I think it was overly personal, overly spiteful. I think whatever you think of Brendan Rodgers, he wanted the best for Celtic. And if he was as self-serving, I'm using Derrick Desmond's words, as Derrick Desmond had said, he could have resigned when the transfer window closed, a failed transfer window. He could have resigned at that point, being a martyr with supporters and taking a lot of the acclaim. He didn't do that, he worked on, so we couldn't get through it. But I find it hard to square a lot of the language that Derrick Desmond used, and I think it was, well, I can't be too faced, well, journalistically it was fantastic. I think it was a bad look for Derrick Desmond and Celtic. Yeah, and where are the fans, you know, are the fans on Team Rodgers or Team Desmond? That's interesting, because the fans have been squarely set against Derrick and the board for quite a number of months. And I think also there was a growing sense among supporters that the Brendan Rodgers element wasn't working and there had to be a change in the dugout. But the fans, I think, also object to the language used towards him by Derrick Desmond, because in their eyes, Derrick Desmond and the board are deflecting from their own failings. And I think this is a long-term thing with Celtic. I think the board and the management of the club, they don't believe they do much wrong. They think the statement says it, you know, we've had great success over 20 years, et cetera, et cetera. Well, that's true in a domestic context, but there's been a lot of embarrassing European episodes. And it's not just Brendan Rodgers. It's been Brendan Rodgers twice. Ange Poster Coglu, Neil Lennon and Ronnie Dyla, as all managers who have been critical of the transfer processes at the club. So there's a bigger picture there that the fans are, I think, rightly cognisant of. And while not completely admonishing Brendan Rodgers from blame, I think Derrick Desmond's statement, you know, irritated those fans even further. Bringing Martin O'Neill, and there's a master stroke though, isn't it? Or is it? I mean, it feels like, it feels just for vibes, right? Just hearing him speak after the game yesterday. And, you know, he's obviously, he's sort of like fancy free and like really open as a manager going, "Ah, they were good. This was fine." You know, it just feels nice. Maybe it's just a nostalgia for everyone, just hearing Martin O'Neill. I agree. And he's the youngest 73-year-old you'll ever see. He does not look or sound or act that age. I mean, this is another fascinating element to this. But Martin O'Neill has been adamant. This is interim. This is short-term. I'm only holding the fort. But I know that privately, 100% Martin O'Neill will believe he can still marry Celtic on a long-term basis. That's how he thinks. And if he, you know, they play Rangers in a week-up semifinal. On Sunday, he's just seen all Falker 4-0. If they go and hammer Rangers at hand and I'm not saying they will or they won't, but it's possible. You know, is there this weight of support behind Martin O'Neill? Because the fans love him. The players, well, the immediate reaction has been a positive one. Does there become a campaign to get him the job? It's really interesting. Martin O'Neill is regular on the Jim White show on Talksport on Monday mornings. And it's quite funny because he's very opinionated. And some of his best riffs are being incredibly bitter about the manner in which he was dismissed from Nottingham Forest, being incredibly bitter about the manner in which he was dismissed from Aston Villa, railing against modern Newfangled Jargon, like XG and, you know, heat maps and all that stuff. But he was on on this Monday morning, talking up Hearth's chances of winning the Scottish Premiership. And then when I heard later on that he'd been appointed interim manager, I went, you old dog, you never mentioned that this morning. But apparently he did not know. So the call came after the show had finished that one o'clock. He got a call at five o'clock when he was on the King's Road in London. I mean, that is an example of how utterly mad and manic this whole thing was. And I think there's no chance if he knew he had even the slightest opportunity of going back into Celtic that he would have talked up Hearth's chances of winning the league and also criticised Celtic. He said they lacked physicality, I think he said, in the same show. So that's the example of how weird and wonderful the situation was. My favourite example of the kind of stuff you speak about Barry is Keith Andrews was obviously very critical of Martin when he was the Republic of Ireland manager. And I knew this would happen as soon as Keith Andrews got the job at Brentford, where he seems to be doing very well, Martin took great delight in saying, well, he might see how difficult it is when you're not sitting in a pundit's chair and you have to be the manager. He'd been waiting on that for umpteen years and he finally got the chance. I really like Martin and he's an incredibly bitter man. He really knows how to hold a grudge. I get all well with him, but I get all well with him because he pulled me up umpteen years later over something I had written. And I was at a dinner and he said to the organiser of the dinner, tell you and Murray I want to speak to him and I thought, right, this can't be. This was years removed. It was when he was a Republic of Ireland manager, I'd written something. And I went up to see him and he said, yeah, and he reeled off pretty much word for word what I'd written six or seven years before. And he said, and what he did was he said, look, he said, he said, go back and read it and take my number and give me a phone and you can see what you think. So I, and then he referred to something else I'd written afterwards. I certainly don't remember. And I was like, anyway, I like him. He was self deprecating about it. And he said that when he was Ireland manager, he used to spend too much time. He had too much time in his hands used to read everything, et cetera, et cetera. But we get on well now, but that was my introduction to the world of Martin O'Neill. That's so funny. Cabinosis, that's a heart span, which Celtic appointment would you interfere the most? So what would you feel like the O'Neill bandwagon, the O'Neill train or Kieran McKenna and Posterkoglu mentioned, of course, Craig Bellamy mentioned, Robbie Keane mentioned. Yeah, I don't think Posterkoglu will happen. I think, I don't think Celtic were entirely amused by the circumstances by which he went to Spurs. I'd be surprised at this point if that happens. McKenna is clearly possible. They've liked him for a while. I think he has to balance, obviously, will he get a decent Premier League job from Ipswich at this point? And I don't know, or is he better serve going to Celtic? But it hasn't been knocked out the park or dismissed yet, which makes me think he at least has a notion to think about it. Bellamy, I would be surprised. And also he seems to have decent fish to fry with the World Cup in the horizon. To answer the question, O'Neill probably is the one as an opposition fan you would fear, even though it's 20 years removed from a managing Celtic. He knows the environment. He will get so many people behind him, he could get the club going quite quickly. So I think probably he would be the one, not to dismiss McKenna, who's clearly a very, very fine coach. You would be wary of what Martin O'Neill could do with Celtic. I was interested, you, to see that Robbie Keane was linked with the job, because Celtic fans have a famous kinship with Palestinians. Keane managed Maccabee Tel Aviv. How would that go down if he was appointed? Yeah, I'm conscious not to generalise, but there's an element of the Celtic support to whom that would be a big problem. Yes, that is an element. Whether the Celtic board would care about that and whether I am overstating that, maybe I am. But that is a factor in all of this. I also think, I don't know how to be semi-respectful, if it wasn't Robbie Keane, I think if you look to his career so far, would you think he's qualified to manage Celtic? I'm not sure you would. Let's talk about Rangers. Danny Rohl is in as manager, having previously rolled himself out. Thank you, Bruce and Joel. They beat Kamana at the weekend 3-1, his first win. I was quite impressed when he went into the crowd when they lost that game, and he sort of said, "Yeah, I'm with you," kind of thing. Have you been impressed with how he's carried himself so far? Yeah, although I think we've seen a recent times that Rangers managers can carry themselves. It's getting results that's a bit more of a problem. Listen, he's worked at Bayern Munich, he's worked with the German national team, he's clearly no clown, he knows what he's doing in coaching circles. It's very early. They were horrendous in that European game last week, although he was just in the door. They beat Kamana quite comfortably on Sunday, which I would argue they should do. Hymns of the penalty last night, which would have made that game 1-8, and probably the mood would be slightly different. I think Rangers fans will get behind Rohl, I think it's unfair to compare him to Russell Martin. And listen, he faces Celtic in this semi-final on Sunday, and as I said, Celtic could beat Rangers quite easily. Rangers could beat Celtic as well. We're in that kind of situation. I would call a clear favourite in that game. And if he beat Celtic in his third game in charge, he's won himself an amazing amount of breathing space. What about Hartz Drew last night? It was six wins on the spin until last night, but I guess when you're on this roll and you're going well and you drop any points, you must think, "Oh, come on guys." Because the hope, a good mate of mine is a Hartz fan. He's like, "I can't deal with this hope." It's been crushed before. Sorry, it's going to be Rohl's fourth game in charge, not third domestic game. I don't agree with you, mate, because I think I have pretty much seen and heard and sampled all with Hartz over decades, but I'm enjoying this. I think you roll with it. I think it's great fun, and I think with what's good on there, there's a reason to think it will get better. So, I'm not particularly set myself up for the disappointment. I'm enjoying the ride. Last night was a brilliant game, which Hartz could have won and Hartz could have lost. And actually a point in Paisley is not a terrible outcome. They played Dundee at home in Saturday, Dundee at United at home the following week, if they get six points from there. This is if they're in a terrific position, but there's an upwardly mobile, exciting feeling around Hartz, which I think is unavoidable, despite drawing two-two. Finally, Aberdeen have brought in Lutz Pfannenstiel as a sporting director. His CV is quite remarkable. He once stole a penguin. He has spent 101 days in a Singaporean jail, accused of match fixing, not penguin theft related. He's modelled for Armani. It's just a great story, isn't it, Ewan? I thought you were going to say, "Max fixing there." What penalty? What penalty? Yes, well, that's a different thing, isn't it? What penalty would that carry? Oh, enormous, absolutely enormous penalties for Max Fixing. It's how I got this gig. Yes, but this guy seems to be highly rated. I'm maybe needlessly cynical. When someone like that arrives in Scotland from Germany, I think, why? Why are you not in the Bundesliga or the second tier in Germany? Anyway, yeah, he's a colourful character. I think we'll all know he's around. Aberdeen have had a bad start this season, to one at Kilmarnock, one now last night, which felt like a big result. And maybe the manager, Jimmy Tallinn, will benefit from that support. I mean, it's amazing. A year ago now, I was on here talking about Aberdeen's rampaging start to the season, and where are they not going to be challenges for the Scottish top flight. And they've been in, look at, relegation candidates for much of this one. So, yeah, nothing stays the same up here. Can't help but feel, Max, you glossed over the most interesting part of his CV there. The theft of a penguin. Was it an actual penguin or a chocolate bar of the same name? You and you have the details. I'm looking up his penguin theft. No, I must admit, I assumed it was a legitimate live penguin. Maybe it was a biscuit. No one would know if he stole a biscuit, would they? Well, I don't think it would be as big a story, but we'll dig into where he stole a penguin from. We should try and get him on. He was on loan to Bradford Park Avenue and was declared three times, dead three times on the pitch after his lungs collapsed, following a collision. So that's also, you know, another interesting part of his life. Anyway, look, we'll do more on Lutz Plan and Shield, for certain, but thank you, Ewan. Appreciate your time. I think I'll need to go and find this guy. He's put this in my head now, yes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely should. Cheers, Ewan. Just a bit of AOB. On the subject of divorced Belgians, we asked to get some divorced Belgians to email in. Actually, the cupboard is pretty bare. David says, "Hello, I'm friends with a divorced Belgian, "but she doesn't listen to football weekly." Andy says, "Max Barry and the team, I'm a first-time writer. "I have listened since the 2007 Gory years, "though I'm not from Belgium. "I have been to Bruges and Centreparks there, "enjoyed Belgian beers and an episode of Poirot. "I didn't even write him when I had a vasectomy, "but felt the time was now to write in. "I got married in 2008. "No blessings from Barry in those days. "I was happily divorced earlier this year. "I can now say that the Football Weekly podcast "has been a longer constant in my life than marriage." To paraphrase the old saying, "You can change your wife, you can change your religion, "you can change your politics, "but you cannot change your football podcast." Thanks all from Andy Johnson, presumably not this one. Finally, Krista writes, and she sent a lovely video on Instagram. "Hi, Max. Hi, Barry, my partner, Graham Smerthwaite, "who hails some lovely England but lives here in the States, "listen to your show religiously. "We're getting married on October the 19th. "Sorry we're a little late, Krista. "I know the only gift he would want and would surprise him the most "would be a shout-out from you and Barry. "I'm not sure how many shows you've recorded just yet, "but if you could throw him a shout-out, I'd be deeply grateful." She said in the video, "Yeah, he's a super fan. "He loves Mrs. Rushton's predictions. "One of the first things he ever told her about on a date "was the video in the bar, Barry, of me slapping the chair." Lord knows why you stayed on past that conversation, Krista, but you did. The first thing she bought him was a mug of me, this mug of me slapping the chair. Here it is, and he drinks his coffee from it every morning. So, look, Graham, we love people like you. Thank you for listening to this podcast, and many congratulations. -It was an incredibly nice video from Krista, and sadly, we didn't see it in time for the wedding. I'm putting the blame for that squarely. Euridormactics are still struggling to come to terms with Instagram messaging and all that. It was such a nice message, so I'm really sad we didn't get to wish them well before the big day so she could show us at the wedding. And I hope it didn't ruin the occasion of Krista's wedding. I hope she wasn't suffering from anxiety or anything because we let her down. -Imagine if that ruined her wedding. I mean, you've got a hope. No, I'm not dancing. There's something missing. -But I can tell just from the evidence of that video alone, Graham is doing very well for himself, so don't fuck it up, Graham. -Yeah, there you are. It's a lovely message to you and to everyone else out there. Don't fuck it up. And that'll do for today. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Jordan. -Cheers, mate. -Thank you, Robin. -Thanks, Max. -Thank you, Barry. -Thank you. But what weekly is produced by Joel Grove, our executive producer is Danielle Stevens. We'll be back on Monday. This is The Guardian. [BLANK_AUDIO]