Paeds Ward Round: The Vomiting Child

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Start your day with fully-cooked breakfast sausages from Amy Liu, 365 brand frozen waffles with no bleached flowers, and of course Whole Foods Market Eggs, which are all cage-free or better. In the evening, bring home a Build Your Own Family meal that feeds four for just $35. Choose one entry and two sides. Shop smarter, not harder, at Whole Foods Market. Welcome to Where Did The Road Go. Be sure to check us out online at www.WhereDidTheRoadGo.com. Now enjoy this edition of The Midweek Podcast. Welcome to The Midweek Podcast. This next interview is available in video form on our YouTube page and eventually on our Vimeo page. So if you want to actually watch the video, you can go there and do so. But this is the audio portion of it. It is an interview I did with Richard Dolan and Peter Robbins before about an hour or so before they were on Where Did The Road Go's main show. So it's a different discussion. We deal in the current state of the UFO field and a bunch of other stuff. I am putting it up for a midweek as a midweek podcast. For those of you who subscribed and such, you may not actually look at our YouTube page at all. And I have a bunch of other midweek podcasts. Hopefully that we're going to be doing very soon. All right. Without any further ado, here's Richard Dolan and Peter Robbins. I'm here with Peter Robbins and Richard Dolan. And one of the first things I want to ask you guys is what do you think about the current state of the UFO field? Oh boy. Well, I do think that we are still engaged in the greatest mystery of our time. I think that the UFO phenomenon is probably the single most profound mystery that we can be exploring, at least in many ways. There's a lot of incredible things that are out there for an engaged intellect to look into, but I think UFOs are right up there. And there are some very, very excellent people working the field. There's not really a lot of organization that I think many of us would like to see. The problem with this phenomenon is, hey, it's intrinsically difficult. I do think that there is a large amount of government obfuscation and I would say cover up on the matter and that doesn't help. And then when you look at the personalities of the people who go into it, I think a lot of them work kind of like artists in a way, intellectual artists that as we have an interest, we go in. And cooperation isn't always really the easiest thing to expect out of people like that. You go in, following a certain puzzle, a certain problem, and you pursue that. So I think UFO research has always had this kind of quality where you've got all of these interested people going in, kind of doing their own thing. As my friend Stephen Bassett often has said, was kind of like the intellectual ghetto of our society. And when you're in a ghetto like that, marginalized from kind of the establishment point of view and the mainstream point of view, you can have a lot of infighting. I think that's part of it. It's a tough field to be in. And, you know, the only excuse for going in and staying is that you have a real passion for it. There are people who say that you follow Jesus spinning its wheels. I've said that many times myself, but I do think that I think we're in a better place than we were say 50 years ago. I think we're in a better place than we were 30 years ago. And I also believe that we're probably another generation or so away from from even more breakthroughs and understanding. Okay. I guess I'll just wrap up by saying I think that I think that we are because we're going through a transformation in our own civilization and our own culture. We've only had internet for 20 years, basically. We've had social media for maybe 10 years. And those have caused a transformation in how we talk to each other, how we learn from each other. We've only had things like WikiLeaks for 10 years. And my feeling is that we've got a lot of revelations ahead of us in terms of leaks, in terms of obtaining new information that are waiting for us. So, you know, you follow Jesus a tough field. In many ways, it's challenging and it's sometimes thankless. But I really believe that there are some amazing truths out there for us to learn in the future. Okay, Peter. Yeah, I have to agree with Richard and would add that it is terribly important work. And in a way, the freedom for people to pursue it in any manner they choose is part of a double edged sword. The other part is that there's no real cohesiveness. There's no real discipline in order to qualify to hang out your shingle as you follow. I'll just, I believe the procedure is still you touch your finger to your nose and you turn around three times and you are one and who's to say you're not. But it's not like we have any professional overseeing group like the AMA or the American psychiatric association who will come down on us appropriately. If we were to present pure conjecture, legend, myth, lore, agenda or our own fears is empirical fact, which happens all the time. And if you're a good presenter and if you're fairly convincing and have just enough data that people feel well, that makes the case for me, then you develop following around something that may be absolutely and completely off the mark. And combine that with the tremendously different personalities in the work. And one abiding issue for me, which is at a certain level of the game, you do this long enough, you get well known, you know, you publish, you speak, you're on the radio, whatever. It's such a self-involved field that the people who suffer the most and who are marginalized, who are the people we should be focusing in on and the people who should be speaking more and more are witnesses, abductees and experiences themselves. Many of whom are highly articulate and just because they're not a trained writer doesn't mean that they can't write a hell of a book or an article or be a world class speaker, Travis Waltons, a perfect example. It's also a wonderful place for camaraderie, for realizing that you are at an historical vanguard, that I'd like to think that there'll be a time well in the future, that we won't see. Where people will look back on this period and say, you know, in the late 20th century, the early 21st century, there was that cadre of people who we study, who we learned about in school, whose books we've read now, who are classics, who sacrificed a certain amount of their peace of mind, living a normal life in a happy upbeat sense and dedicated themselves. It took a lot of hits, were a certain casualty of social thinking or seen as marginal people or believers rather than serious students of a subject that we now know had the most profound implications for humanity. I'm proud to be a member of it, and, you know, its warts and problems are very apparent. I hope that it continues on in a way that is intellectually vital, is science-based, and does not confuse wistful mystical thinking with empirical fact. I'd like to add, I really agree with you as well, Peter, and I'd like to add that, I think, an important direction that proper UFO research needs to go is in true international collaboration. There's a little bit of that, but there's really not enough. So, you've got American researchers, that's really the largest group of serious researchers that are there as Canadians. Go across the ocean, the Atlantic, you've got a small number of UK researchers. You've got an even smaller number as far as the population goes of European researchers. there's some, not enough, go into Africa, very little. You go to most of Asia, little to nothing. I know of a couple of people in India who are trying actively to research UFOs, it's difficult. Japan, Japan's got some of the UFO community there, and China, and yeah, so like there's, I think research that wants to be done in different parts of the world, but we still have a language barrier. This is getting to be better. We've got things like Google Translate, and we should be able to collaborate. I really would like to see in the next decade a much greater international collaboration sharing of data. Right now, if someone in North America sees what they think is a UFO, they can report it to two major databases. There's the Mufon database, and there's the National UAV reporting center, and that's great. So in 2014, the combined number of reports of those two databases took with something like 14,000 over 14,000, 14,000 North America's US and Canada. Now, how many were in Mexico? No one knows. How many were in South America? Nobody knows. How many were in Europe? Any other part of the world. So they're really on that basic, fundamental level of just getting data. Most of the world does not have a really adequate reporting system. And then to say nothing of investigators, there's little to none. The US has Mufon, which in theory, and I'm really emphasizing in theory, has some researchers who are willing to do some investigation. And there are a few. But in the rest of the world, there's almost nothing. So, now some people find that whole thing boring. Well, yet a sighting and investigating sighting, who really cares. In my opinion, that's actually the foundation of this phenomenon, of reinforcing the fact that we are experiencing things that are not being officially explained in that demand and explanation. Whatever that is, whether that means it's extraterrestrials, or simply black budget technology, or classified drones, or what have you, these are significant issues that our society should be looking at. And there's really not a lot of collaboration worldwide about it. I think that that's an important direction that UFO research should be going, and hopefully we'll be going in the next decade or two. Okay. What do you think about people? I think Greg Bishop was one of them. I know Paul Kimbles, one of them, Mike has kind of gotten an agreement that euphologies should just be like reset everything thrown out and start over again. No, how could I agree with that? Do you agree with it? I'm saying what do you think of that type of an attitude? Well, it depends, you know, for some of those individuals, I know them both, and I know there are other people who say that, so what does that mean? You throw out what? You throw out all hypotheses. So we go into a data collection mode and have no theory, no hypothesis. So, or do they come up with another hypothesis? I don't really see much of a point in collecting data, scrolling data away, not really wondering what it is we're dealing with. And on top of that, whether those individuals or others like it or not, there are countless numbers of people who are having experiences that somehow are the traumatizing them or affecting them deeply in one way or another. Now you can choose not to look at that, but the reality is that there are things happening at a profound level to many, many people that appear to be connected with what we would call high-strangeness. And a lot of those appear to be connected with what we would call UFOs. So, does that get thrown out as well? Do claims of government conspiracy and cover-up get thrown out? Well, I can't agree with that. So, now I do think that we need to have some higher standards of rigor in terms of talking about evidence and things of this particular sort. And I do think that everyone connected with this field should think twice before they copy and paste an ex-facebook rumor that comes along that way. There's a lot of loose conversation that's been going on that can always be tightened up. But to call it a reset, well, let them let them write their books and describe how a reset should look. And I think part of the argument too is that there's so much junk thrown into the whole UFO field at this point, that it's hard to separate the facts, the data from the vastness. That's good. It always will be the vastness. It's always the internet becoming the ubiquitous big brother that it is. Also, no Paul, Greg's a good friend. I think there's a certain, even if it's a minuscule aspect of their stance, that's a little bit tongue-in-cheek. Also, not completely free of hubris, the idea that you can chuck anybody of work out. And start again is an abstract worth contemplating, but kind of difficult. Where my problem comes in is rich and I have to be professional skeptics, because if we don't, and we don't fully vet what we're doing, it's going to catch us in the face. At the same time, at different points in our careers, we passed a point that I'll characterize as we no longer have the luxury of disbelief. We know beyond a reasonable legal doubt that something's going on. Something important and interesting and unexplained that is happening in as well. And at least part of it seems to involve, I'll say, other intelligences from parts unknown who come and go with impunity. For people who want to talk about a reset, I would say fine. I mean, this is this is a big world. And it's a world that demands lots of different ideas and approaches. And if they want to do it, I would encourage them to formulate how such a reset should be and write it out and and and present it to the rest of us. Simple. Yeah, I'd be happy to jump in on that. I wish them well on it. Actually, what I would love to see and you might be the guy to put it together. Saraya is right there. Paul and Greg have a conversation on your show with Rich and I. And we go to it on this subject. For me, nothing substitutes for genuine intellectual, open engagement, free discussion. And just see where it goes. None of us have anything to prove here. These are good guys. They're smart. I would love to have a full conversation with them about this in spirit of, you know, open intellectual debate. And I think that gets us further than anything else would. Because you can agree with someone all the whole night, but you're not going to get as far as if you come up against someone who has different ideas, because then it may make you refine your own through. We all learn and process. So, hmm. And I think that what you said with the UFO thing, what I've said before is that there is definitely something going on. And it's probably more than one thing. Yep. But whatever it is, whatever the sort of paranormal aspect of it is, is alien. It doesn't mean necessarily extraterrestrial, but it is alien to us. Very intensely different. Yes. And it may be extraterrestrial, but it may also be something that's been here with us forever. Sure. Or both. Or both. Well, that's true. That's true too. I think forming the opinion these days that probably the large majority of what people see that they think our UFOs are classified technology. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's becoming a larger and larger component of it. And doesn't mean that there aren't truly anomalous things that are not from here, whatever, whatever here is. But in terms of drone technology, you know, what I've been learning in the last year is that some of these classified drones are just off the charts and their exotic capabilities. Not sure what even type of propulsion they use, but it's something that's exotic and different. And a lot of people are seeing these things. I think these are high level military black budget type drones. And I had a conversation a little while ago with a retired engineer from Boeing. He told me some really incredible things about what Boeing was doing in terms of the Black Triangles. A lot of people have seen Black Triangles for decades. Yeah. And it was this, and this is a highly qualified engineer. He's retired now. It was quite insistent with me that Boeing has been working with Black Triangle Technology for quite some time. Of course, this has been discussed by a lot of other researchers, but he provided me with enough detail information to make me think, yeah, this is exotic, beyond anything that is officially in operation in our society. And the principles that they work on, not really sure, some kind of geomagnetic principles, something that might be related to what we call electro-gravity, perhaps. But you know, you see a Black Triangle that can do incredible things, that just might be something we're making. There's rewarding, and then there's remarkably rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve, like earning three times points on dining and access to Sapphire Reserve exclusive tables. Learn more at chase.com/safirereserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. for a busy week with Whole Foods Market, start your day with fully cooked breakfast sausages from Amy Liu, 365 brand frozen waffles with no bleached flowers, and of course Whole Foods Market Eggs, which are all cage free or better. In the evening, bring home a build your own family meal that feeds for, for just $35, choose one entree and two sides, shop smarter, not harder at Whole Foods Market. You know, I think I'm quoting if I'm paraphrasing I'm off by a word. Stanton Friedman said it best, which was, the question is not, are UFOs representative of advanced technology, advanced civilizations from parts unknown that come and go with immunity? The question is, has one ever been? And I think the answer to that is an overwhelming yes. It doesn't matter the preponderance. And like Richard, I feel that the great majority, if not almost all, of modern, so-called UFOs, may well be us at this point. Although I want to add, I'll just lay off you what I think the scenario is that's been going on. I do think that there has been a crash retrieval phenomenon. And this is not simply the Roswell case. Although, in fact, I think the Roswell case is very good. But there has been, since the 1970s, in particular, first by the researcher, lead researcher, Leonard Stringfield, who collected a large number, a first hand, and a few second hand, basically, testimonies from spouses of individuals who had direct contact with either a crash, UFO, or even alien bodies. Quite a few of these came to Stringfield. Starting with him and then moving through the decades, there have been enough cases, in my opinion, of credible witnesses who've talked about this sort of thing to make me say, yes, this is what it looks like. So we have acquired technology that was not made by human hands, not made by human civilization. That's one thing. The other thing that is undeniable, and this is through the established documentation, through freedom of information, is that from the 1940s, onward, U.S. air bases have dealt with violations of sensitive air space by objects that have not been supposed to exist, but they do exist. And it won't do simply to explain these as black budget technology. It just won't do. When you have objects that are invading the nuclear installations at Los Alamos, the installations at Hanford in the state of Washington and Oak Ridge, America's key, nuclear facilities in the 1940s and 50s, when air spin-up base commanders are basically scratching their heads wondering what are these things. When they scramble jets to intercept, when you alert anti-aircraft battalions and fighter squadrons, which we know in the declassified documents have happened, then you have a serious phenomenon. So you've got, on the one hand, retrieval of exotic technology and I think bodies. And on the other hand, a phenomenon that would not go away, something at least a bit confrontational has been happening over the decades. And this has caused the creation of a massive secrecy structure. And this I think, you know, we denied this at our peril. This is a very serious matter. The UFO phenomenon, in other words, has been a key knife in the back of the American Republic. There's a lot of things that have damaged the American Republic, but this is one of them. And by denying it, I think, I think we're actually holding ourselves back and we're not really seeing this picture clearly. This has caused a dissolution of the traditional kind of American belief in true democratic government. Because look, if you've got to research and study this highly classified phenomenon, you're convinced you cannot tell the public about. You have to fund it. That means you have to go around Congress. You can't simply go through normal appropriations. You have to create a black budget. In other words, the UFO phenomenon is one of the key creators of our black budget culture. Again, not the only one, but one significant cause from the start. So that, so this has serious political implications for our world. The world of secrecy then moved into very, very deep areas in terms of technology, secrecy, and in terms of what I have come to call a breakaway civilization, which I think is probably almost certainly a real thing. I mean, I put that out as a hypothesis, but I still think it's the most sound hypothesis to explain what I think has been going on. That is a classified world that is operating on different scientific principles, which are when you make a scientific breakthrough based on exotic technology that doesn't come from here, it becomes classified. There are thousands of classified patents that we know of many having to do with energy, by the way. I think a large portion of these anyway are related to what we call UFOs. And when you have classified patents, that means that the rest of the world is not able to pursue those lines of technology, those lines of inquiry. So it is literally our future being held hostage by the classified world, which continues to race ahead. And when you have the ability to examine science that other people cannot examine, you can very likely move vastly, vastly farther ahead, so far ahead that you might actually consider what you know to be part of the separate civilization, one that's breaking away. So that's the idea. So these are important implications to think about. And again, I just go back to you know the suggestion that you mentioned by some researchers that we need to just do a reset. I don't think it would be a responsible thing to throw out a lot of those ideas, pretend there's no cover-up maybe. I can't see them. I don't think that's responsible. We live in a world of cover-ups. We live in a world of opaque government domination, government corporate domination over people's lives, in which we know less and less about what they do. They know more and more about what we do. The UFO phenomenon is part of that whole matrix, it's part of that situation. And I just think that I certainly am not going to lose sight of that. I hope other researchers don't need it. I think that even if you take the UFO component out of it, much of what you just said about the way the government operates and the black budget is still true. That's right. I mean because they can be working on things that they made breakthroughs on that they didn't share with everyone else, or they could take a breakthrough someone made, take it for themselves, classify it, and move on. It could still be related to the UFO phenomenon. I'm not a homemade UFO, but I think it's part of the story. I'm just saying that even if you take out the crash saucers, that's still a very highly possible scenario with or without it. Obviously, they'll get much further. Totally agree. Completely agree. You have a national security empire that really has evolved out of the corpse of the old republic. I'm going to ask you really what we're seeing. But I would just add that the UFO phenomenon is part of that. And I think we can say that confidently based on, again, declass of several thousands of pages worth of declassified documents, not all of which are fascinating, but a few hundred pages of them are very fascinating indeed. For folks that are become involved the last say half a dozen years or so, the big focus is on internet releases of information, material that is accessible on the internet, much of which is impossible to corroborate. And it's become, I don't know, fairly popular to dismiss as arcane prehistory. The fact that as Richard says, there are quite a number of thousand of pages of authentic fully vetted guilt edged declassified documents. Much of it reads in fairly bureaucratic boring terms, but there are papers that literally catch on fire as you read them. I think some of the most exciting reading I've done was when I first began to study stuff from the National Archive that was either released before the Freedom of Information Act in the gradual process of reducing classifications and then getting it out there or in foils. For me, it is a very important part of anybody's post-war education. And it's one of the reasons that I have presented maybe an inordinate number of papers that for some people are a little dry, but for me, they're designed literally, almost methodically, to get people through that first door. And when you see this information couch solidly in a context of post-war history, and you see actual documentation and some of what it says, I mean, for me, a perfect example is part of Project Sign. Sign was the first large-scale report on the UFO situation that we're aware of. It was actually released in February of '48, so it was written through the end of '47. It's 40 odd pages. There is a large part of it where they methodically examine that everything these things may or may not be. And just them as they go. Then X number pages in, you get to a point where you see, and at the time it was two words, space ships. And they begin to discuss the possibilities. And at a certain point, a voice, a real person, a military writer comes to life. And what they say in effect is, because two years ago, speaking from the point of writing in 47, we did something on Earth, that you could see in space for the first time. We started to detonate nuclear weapons. Baring, and then it is sort of a brief and kind of charming exposition on getting here from there and how fast they'd have to go in the limits of our conceptual technology and applying it to them. But above all else, we should expect to be seeing visitations at this point. Then, literally saying, we human beings are dedicated to this activity we call war. 100 years from now, we're going to be out in the star systems with bigger and better weapons, our same violent, unstable psychology. So above all else, again, we should be expecting to see these visitations. Right, the important thing, the storyline for the day of the year should still. But what you're saying, and this is an important takeaway here, is that, from the declassified documents that we have, it is very evident that senior analysts who are looking at these so-called flying saucers inevitably and invariably would come to at least strong consideration of what we would call the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Exactly. And you find this again and again. It happened in 1948. It happened again in 1952. It happened again in the 1960s. Every time that there was a high level study that was brought officially sanctioned by the U.S. government to look into this, this question would not go away. And in each instance, in '48 and in '52, in particular, within the military, those studies, those groups are just dispersed and sent to the forewins of heaven. The other thing I just want to mention here, in terms of freedom of information act documents, this is really important. We have many thousands of pages of documents that are now available to the public through the Freedom of Information Act that describe very, very intense UFO encounters and also position, basically, almost like position papers or attitudes that were taken by senior military personnel, even at the level of director of scientific intelligence for the CI and the government. However, we only know about these things, almost through an accident of history. Freedom of Information, all through the '40s and '50s and '60s, there would be researchers who would say to the government, "We believe that there's a cover-up." And the government agency would say, "Ah, we don't really research that. We really don't know what's going on. This is not something that we do." And then came Watergate and the end of Vietnam and the strengthening of the Freedom of Information Act as a result of those things. And in the late 1970s, this is really a key moment in American history. You had a number of researchers now with a strength in Freedom of Information Act, shaking that tree and a lot of documents kind of fell out of that tree. Freedom of Information was a strong, relatively strong, until the early 1980s, a presidential executive order by Ronald Reagan significantly made Freedom of Information much more difficult and expensive as in 1982. And since that time, the FOIA has had a subs and downs, a lot of downs, lots of down years, and it is simply not the same. More than half of all the documents that we have to this day through Freedom of Information came in the Jimmy Carter years. It is amazing as that sounds. That's actually true. So what I'm trying to say here is that we have this documentary evidence proving the lie. US government agencies continue to lie through the 40s and 50s and 60s saying, "No, we don't research UFOs. We finally have an opening and showing clearly that many of these agencies did, in fact, investigate UFOs and we're very interested in the phenomenon." And then the window closes. And since that time, it's been hit or miss to be perfectly honest with you. So yes, I think when you're looking at this with some detachment and with the willingness to question your government, you have to conclude that there is secrecy on this matter of UFOs. At the same time that there's ridicule, at the same time that there's collusion with establishment media to put this subject to sleep as far as the public is concerned, or at least to make it not something that serious people really look at. And when you mentioned the media, you look at just recently when the headlines were CIA admits that UFOs and with 50s and such were them. And then you read the actual article. But you read the actual article and you'll find out that they're only talking about a very small select group of sightings by airline pilots that were there. But if you look at that headline, oh, well, you can dismiss all those UFOs. And the CIA has been playing this line for over 20 years now from 1997, which was the 50th anniversary of Roswell, a very big year. The CIA was behind a report that came in studies in intelligence. That's their journal written by a man named Gerald K. Haynes, which was a study, supposedly, allegedly a study. I think it's very, very weak, of all the sightings of U2 aircraft and the A12 OXCART, which is the SR-71 Blackbird in the 50s and 60s. And what Haynes argued is that most, he actually said the majority of these UFO sightings in that period were of those aircraft, such as species, faulty argument. It's been picked apart many, many times by myself as well as a number of other researchers. But you have this line. It's a canard. That's the word for it. That's a particular kind of a lie that gets out there. And it continues to have legs in the media and it gets recycled every so often. And what you're talking about is simply another kind of version of the same old story. Oh, yes, we had our secret aircraft. We didn't want the public to know. We let them believe it was UFOs, etc. But in fact, in terms of the U2, which flew at 80, 70,000 feet straight as a string, didn't descend, didn't maneuver, didn't do anything. In fact, Haynes in that study did not offer any explicit UFO sightings of that era. In fact, not one. That was attributed to any of those aircraft. Well, even in the article though, if you actually read the article, it said they were only talking about a small select group of segments, but the media treated it as if everything is explained, you know, the wonderful world of news containment. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I mean, I look at the, when people talk about the state of Eiffology, what we really need to be looking at as a state of our culture, the state of our government, corporate, dominated, suffocated, straight jacket type of news coverage, and which really people are treated like little children. And, you know, responsible public discourse, it really just doesn't happen in those venues. And now it does happen in what we call the alternative media, what you're doing right now in recording us. And this is becoming way more significant. But we're still in a world where we've got a very hierarchical structure of power in which the establishment media works very, very intimately closely with that structure of power. Yeah. And that's the true problem. That's a much bigger problem than anything having the state of, you know, UFO researchers that don't always get along. Okay. All right. And I mean, that's that that also when you look at the whole, the, yeah, let's, let's, let's name it. We're trying to slow down the internet wings. The, well, the end of net neutrality. There we go. Thank you. The net neutrality argument, you know, that's another way to control the amount of information out there if that gets out there. So, you know, you can only get to major sites and everything else is going to run slow. That's going to hamper. We could talk about this for hours because there's all other types of things going on right now that are designed, I think, simply to intimidate the public and prevent the public from looking into the truth in terms of surveillance, in terms of, you know, now, I mean, what we're seeing, and I really think this could be significant, the proliferation of claims of hate speech and hate crimes. In other words, arguments that to some people seem like, oh, this is a legitimate way to protect the interests of this or that group of people, but what they end up doing is restricting the range of free speech. And I really can see, at a certain point, this idea working its way into all kinds of unacceptable types of discourse, discourse that someone might argue is bad for the public and therefore should not be permitted. Generally, the downside of political correctness, which as we all know, began as a noble effort to sensitize people to the, I guess, specifics of other people. And overall has had a suffocating effect on popular culture and a secondary kind of busy work where carefully choosing a term that is considered socially appropriate at that moment can destroy the actual dialogue of a very serious question because of this sort of over-hike sensitivity to the precise politically correct term yeah and that's a tragedy that's tragedy and just getting back to the whole idea of government I mean I agree with you obviously I think most people would agree with that but the key is you know the range of what is acceptable discourse within a society and my fear is simply that it's a brilliant tool of repression that's right under the guise of you don't want to offend anybody so why say anything at all I mean it's very or well in coming around the corner from another anguish far as I'm concerned so the potential end of net neutrality and or in the current there's still a tax on that neutrality this day not simply in the US but around the world all right there's a lot of other countries out there who do have various types of control over the internet simply the surveillance that's going on all these things I think are our danger and a threat to research of all areas not simply UFOs but a lot of things so that is I think a greater a far more significant problem than you know the squabbling that goes on within this field there's always gonna be squabbling you think UFOs are a tough field going to the academic world you know seriously and look at the debates and arguments and vicious infighting that takes place within the halls of academia with people with PhDs they can be just as nasty as as the people in uphology that's that's the world everywhere and and actually you know what that's a good thing because that's a sign that there's a variety of opinions out there and that's the mark of a free society you're gonna have to have differences opinion and I think that within this field we we need to have skeptics and we need to have people who have different types of belief all contributing to this because the fact is we're working on a very significant mystery and I don't think that any one perspective is going to be the magic bullet here Prap for a busy week with Whole Foods Market start your day with fully cooked breakfast sausages from Amy Lou 365 brand frozen waffles with no bleached flowers and of course Whole Foods Market eggs which are all cage free or better in the evening bring home a build your own family meal that feeds for for just 35 dollars choose one entree and two sides shop smarter not harder at Whole Foods Market there's rewarding and then there's remarkably rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve remarkably rewarding is enjoying access to our award winning lounges with two complimentary guests every time you travel and access to over 1300 lounges worldwide that's 1300 reasons to arrive early Chase Sapphire Reserve is remarkably rewarding learn more at Chase.com/safire reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply it's like that story about the seven blind man with the elephant yeah trying to describe what the elephant is to anybody else and it is very different from the point of view and where you have your hands that is very true and the thing with the UFO phenomenon too is that like I said it seems to encompass more than one thing and anytime someone says look I think I got it there's that piece laying over to the side and there's always people who write to me probably YouTube who come in with their solution yeah to the whole day and I I just throw out my hands but you're right it is complicated when I started in this business about 20 years ago looking at I had this idea that that you know once once I got into it once I started realizing that this is something that's significant you know it took me many many steps to to allow myself to go into the deeper waters of true strangeness so at first you're thinking well extraterrestrials from an other planet and that seemed like a very logical kind of thing to be looking at I still think that that's not an illogical thing to be looking at sure but when you start looking at serious high strangeness we're talking about what seems to be manipulation of space-time itself the very fabric of our reality we're talking about cases of apparent telepathic communication well what is up with that what does that say about consciousness it seems to connect to our consciousness and we add to our consciousness yeah that's right I'm I have a small publishing company it's called Richard Nolan Press and I'm on the verge of publishing a book by an author who I I really believe is on to something important here in terms of putting together the phenomenon with some of these very very bizarre types of synchronicities that many people have noticed and almost kind of like almost like what I sometimes call a meta intelligence of intelligence as above that is interacting this researcher by the way is Mike Clelland sometimes he's known as the owl guy Mike yeah he did a fascinating lecture on the significance of owls within apparent induction experiences thoughts a little dry here but Mike that book will come out this summer I'm pretty sure I've just got his cleanest manuscript and it looks great fascinating stuff so yeah we're into a very very deep and strange field that I think it's true like no one perspective is really going to be able to get this because say I mean think about I had this conversation with Mike in fact with like a year ago we were talking about this other intelligence compared with us and and we it was like imagine like our dogs like when you when you pull out of your driver you're going to work and your dog getting together with other neighborhood dogs and having conferences and conversations about where the people go when they leave the house you know I mean it's kind of funny to think about it because that's like what we're at deal with this phenomenon we don't have the skills very possibly I mean we may never have the skills truthfully to get a full grasp on what we're dealing oh sure we can keep trying it it's worthwhile to do so that I always think of us as like the fish in the fish bowl yeah and we can only see so far out of the fish bowl and around us and interpret what's around us and we're very limited and and how we can interact with this stuff going around around us all the time it wasn't a while they come into our little bowl yep and we're like wow who's what's that oh yeah exactly I sometimes think about the model of let's say Richard and I had chosen to go into research biology specializing in some endangered mammal that we find up in the UConn or something they airdrop us in there with supplies and hardware and we set our pain free cages and we captured some wonderful little mammals orders or whatever I'm holding it I'm heading it I'm saying don't worry we won't hurt you while Richard's giving it an injection and it is feeling pain you put some drops in its eyes you spray paint the number on its back put a radio collar on it you said it loose and it wanders back into the outer world and the other otters say what the hell I don't know I've got mixed memories they were like giant otters with no hair and and I keep away from us whoever you are you believe this stuff and in reality do we hate the otters no do we love the otters no we're not that do our thing yeah yeah it is as they say in the mafia nothing personal just business sorry that that tumor that we attached to your back is going to cut your life in half or congratulations you don't know it because you have no concept of time if you can live twice as long because of that vitamin supplement that you're getting now we're not doing it for you though we're doing it for our own agenda and thank you for participating it it could be that there's also numerous intelligences interacting that you expressed real or not there could be it seems like some of these things are trying to help us some of them are not just like people there could be good and bad intelligences out there you run the full gamut absolutely and if it lapses over into the paranormal demons may be those intelligences that don't like us but they may also manifest in your high-strangeness you know I have a season I've developed the opinion I've had this actually for a while this opinion which is a lot of what we're dealing with what we may think are as aliens or extraterrestrials are probably they may be extraterrestrials but they are very likely the product of a highly advanced artificial intelligence machine intelligence they may be genetically engineered look where we are with our own capability for doing that look where we are with our capability for things like nanotechnology and AI how hard is it really to imagine another civilization attaining a somewhat more advanced level than where with that being able to custom create beings for specific purposes of exploration or conquest or what have you. All of this seems to be pretty straightforward to me in real possibility. So my working assumption is that we're dealing with a very very very advanced kind of civilization that has done this type of genetic engineering and AI, and it's probably combined and created. Maybe 3D printed their own creatures. We really might not be. We're at the point of doing 3D organic printing. Yeah, I may be pretty good enough that I mean ranging beings, you know, popping them out. Oh, however they do that we would call printing but they would have some ability to do that kind of thing. The other thing is sometimes I just don't know where to go except a really quality model from the world of science fiction. I'm not a big science fiction reader. It wasn't into it as a kid but I was introduced to Jewels Burn, HG Wells, Robert Heinlein, some of the greats when I was young and then of course we all grew up with Gene Roddenberry, one of the great visionaries who for me the first Star Trek to think that their projection was several hundred years ahead of us when in reality even 50,000 years ahead of us, 500,000 years and if there is a external civilization that is dealing with us that's 350,000 years ahead of us in linear time and scientific development there may be a civilization that they occasionally passed in the night that's 840,000 years ahead of them. We are reduced as usual to a Pandora's Box filled with Pandora's Boxes and this is part of the reason that uphology continues to trip itself up because we are always in so far over our head. We are dealing with theories based on theories including theories where anybody's idea or theory can't be disproved by the next person over so it's always going to have a potential for followers and encampments almost cult-like groups that build around certain highly charismatic researchers of personalities in the field of broadcasters or writers are going to see themselves as the adverse or the ones who are trying to convince you that the other person is deluded or trying to take you what you set up a false flag and get you going in the other direction rather than where you should be paying your attention it is a very challenging feel. All right we're going to wrap this up and he lasts anything last words here? Well any final words? Yeah, sum it up. I think if there's a young person watching this and they're intrigued by this phenomenon I would say don't be afraid and and I'm gonna do some research don't expect to make a living doing it but if you've got a passion for this be brave go in keep your head together don't sign on to the first theory that you see but also keep your mind open and and don't be afraid to look into some very very strange things. The thing about this phenomenon and I can say in the 20 plus years I've been researching it is that it is opened up new vistas of thinking for me regularly so I you know I broke in in the early 90s thinking you know thinking wow the UFOs actually do seem to be a real phenomenon that was itself a that was a head terror but then going in each way thinking it's even stranger and stranger still you really reformulate your paradigms multiple times I've done that and and if you're going to go into a field like that you've got to be prepared to throw out a lot of your prior beliefs about what you thought all the programming that's been basically drilled into you your whole life about what the world is set that aside and look at this and be prepared to allow this subject to to work its way in and and reshape what your vision of reality is as frightening as that can be it's it's a goal worth pursuing because the key to any kind of personal growth think about this is shedding of illusions that we are all born into everyone is everyone is born into veil over veil over veil of illusion and it's really true that the real path of self liberation is in removing those values one by one we never really get there all the way but but the key to doing it if you're looking to UFOs or any of these other fascinating topics that are forgotten by our respectable culture once you allow yourself to go into it and you allow yourself the bravery to challenge your former beliefs you find that it's a truly liberating experience and you may not be able to talk easily the guy sitting next to you on your next flight to LA who says so what do you do for a living but it's still worth it and I think I think the sense of liberation from the illusions that you've been born into is worth any of the struggles all right as somebody who's devoted a certain amount of their research time to what I will call the ridicule factor and people being very concerned about what other people think about what they think about the subject because it has been so brilliantly pounded into our head since the summer of 1947 that there's nothing there in the there for anybody who is truly interested in the subject educate yourself don't worry about other people think about what you think this is real this is important and the implications will not spare anybody once we are full of picture of what's going on all right well thank you guys thank you there's rewarding and then there's remarkably rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve like enjoying access to our award-winning lounges with two complimentary guests every time you travel learn more at chase.com/safire reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply whatever your career pursuit Dallas College is here to help you get there with academic support for over a hundred programs in person and online classes and tuition that's just $99 per credit hour and roll now at Dallas College.edu education that transforms feel the glow of good fortune it's mid-autumn festival and there's no better place to celebrate than Choctaw Casino and resort to Rand. 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