Packing Hope in a Mars Bag with Dr. Saeed Ghandhari

Hello, I'm Joe Sweeney, your host, and someone who firmly believes that if you're dreaming of living on Mars, you're also probably the kind of person building something meaningful down here on Earth. This week I had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Said Gandari, a former Mars-1 applicant and Mars-100 finalists. He's also a martial artist, refugee advocate, astronomer, and lifelong learner, originally from Iran and now living in Auckland, New Zealand. Said's story is one of those sweeping, quietly extraordinary journeys that reminds you what resilience actually looks like. After 11 years working in Iran's parliament and nearly 6 more at New Zealand's Ministry of Social Development, he's helped hundreds of refugees, mayori, and migrants navigate new lives with dignity and hope. The hasn't just built bridges, he's built black belt level community. Literally, he has a black belt. But he also has a PhD in international relations and national security studies, and he's not stopping there having even applied for a six-year medical science degree, because why not? In this episode, we talk about what it means to never stop learning, to never stop dreaming, and why Said hasn't given up on his vision of stepping foot on Mars. Along the way, we also explore being unpredictable, black hole papers, waiting on Roskosmos, building hope through Mars-1. In decisive asteroids, teamwork makes the dream work, having a good backup plan, Martian toilet legacy, keeping a Mars bag in your wardrobe just in case, reasons versus acts, space soldiers, dinosaur contingency plans, leveling up through blogging, and what it means to pass your determination on to others. How helping one person today might spark a chain reaction of bold decisions tomorrow. So strap in, recalibrate your Star Tracker, and double check your luggage made it on. Welcome aboard aspiring Martians. Hello everybody, my name is Said, I'm 40 almost five years old. I was born in Iran, but I'm living in New Zealand now. I learned about Mars-1 in 2011, and I was so impressed about the subject. I followed them, I applied, and I became inspired Martian now. Well so I'm curious, so you're married, you have three children, are they, is your oldest younger than 11 or 12? No, definitely double, 23. Okay. Okay. Well so you had children when you first applied to Mars-1? Yes, I had two. Yes. What was that like? My son told one that my dad is really unpredictable because you don't know what he's going to do next. And we had the same interview with one of the movie makers here in New Zealand, and the after-themed question, you know, how do you feel about this story? And he said, "First of all, I was so sad and frustrated about that he's going to leave us later on when I looked at the broader picture, and I noticed that he's going for the sake of humanity, and technically for the next generation." I totally started to understand, and then I said, "Yeah, I'm so proud of you, dad. I'm too too so for it to you." So the response, most of the family members were the same except my mom, is still saying, "No, you can't go, no, no, no, it's, but the rest of them they said, 'It's emotionally so hard for us to cope with this.' 'Wow, one would think about the consequences,' then we say, 'This man is doing the right thing again, we just want to support them.' Did it feel like it came out of nowhere for them? Because you said that your son kind of jokingly said that you're rather unpredictable, but was this something that's always been within you? Maybe not technically the desire to go to Mars, but this sort of unpredictable, you know, adventurous fly by the cedar pans type of mentality? Yeah, of course. It's in my gin, my ginetic. I remember I did a lot of things for the first time in my entire family. So I was the first person who immigrated to another country. I started to study at university like two centuries ago, and I'm still studying, you know, so no one has done it before about. I'm so passionate about it. You're a lifelong learner. Yeah, exactly. I just finished my PhD and I'm defending soon. And the things that I did just last week, I applied for medical science at University of Auckland which takes about six years, and my son said, 'Hey, dad, you're so crazy, six years of studying, you've got your PhD, what's wrong with you? Start the starting for moment and enjoy your life,' I said. 'Yes, always.' Was there anything about space exploration early on in your childhood though? Yeah, you know, as a child, everybody dreams of being an astronaut or a geiger, I plan it every night that you don't sleep, you know. You look at the sky, you're not looking at the stars, moons and dreaming that a year, what if I could go there?' So I was one of those children and that's why I started studying at a flight physics at the university. And I remember, it was a semester free, I think. There was a conference about astronomy, I think, in one of the other universities. I'm very invited to go there. And I submitted my first paper about black holes and it was fascinating. And I can say, I fell in love with the space since then. And then I always followed up, you know, any subject relevant to this space and to astronomy, cosmology and so on. And also before another experience, 2008, there was an advertisement from Roscosquist, one of the, actually, this is the Space Agency in Russia. And they were looking for some astronauts. I'm not sure if it was about the moon or something else. I resist that, but I never heard back from them. And then in 2011, I heard about Mars one and you know there was something story. Okay, so you've got a, you've got a pre-story then before Mars ones. Your interest in actually getting into space predates Mars one by a few years. What was it about the Roscosmos program that really drew your attention? You know, Ethernet wasn't so spread as a popular act then. 2008, 2009, considering I was living in Steadboard, like, let's look at it, like, you're not sure. Where did I get the first advertisement? And the platform was so old fashioned, it had a live form, platform that you had to go and feel like I'm checking your information there. And there was a lot of things that I didn't know. I was like, well, I'm not sure where did I get the first advertisement. And there was just an advertisement saying that we were looking for some applicants to a platform this project and what we're going to do is send them to some trainings to, I don't know, there is a son of somewhere else. And then I can't remember what was exactly the destination, but they just provided that much of information. I applied, I'm not sure if I received any confirmation email or something like that. And then, like, nothing, I haven't received anything since then. I kept waiting for like two years, you know, it was so old for every day, I opened my maid box, in hopes of getting an email or confirmation something like that. And each time all of my hopes, you know, shatters down the straight away nothing. So right at your low, right, two, almost three years later, then you find another opportunity. And then that's Mars one. So you must have felt at that point, you're like, all right, this is meant to be. Exactly. I was so, yeah, but I thought, you know, considering that experience, I was thinking, this is another Roskuss loose and they're going to waste my time. And when I applied first, so you know, they had three, three stages in terms of selections of candidates. And then I passed the fastest stage and I heard back from them. It was so exciting. I started, you know, trusting them. And then we had like regular communication interactions with the whole project team in the then some interviews, you know, game of. We built that relationship. We had a very strong relationship with the team. And I can say that I built a new personality terms of, you know, loving the space because I had lost all of my face in the space after lost experience. And then I became hopeful again and then an inspiring Martian. And I think I'm not going to lose it although Mars won't have, you know, such troubles in the past because it had become part of my face and personality for you. So wherever I go, I try to spread the message across the society community to say, hey, don't look at the Mars one. Mars won did best. And I don't say that I made just another video last week. And I said, I can't say Mars one is dead or alive. I can't say that because I wish we could have possible. I would say regardless of Mars one as a human being, we need to go to another planet. No matter who's going to do it, we have to focus on the act rather than on the actor. I mean, that's what was so unique and so fascinating about the Mars one program. And to your point, it doesn't matter if it's dead, if it's still going, what did continue and what did endure? Was this fascination that realistically in the future, Mars is going to need more than just pilots, more than just engineers, more than just doctors. It's going to need all types of people. And so when you first applied, that must have looked even more appealing because at this point, yes, you were bringing your applied physics degree in your experience. And so you were already scientifically minded, but there was a lot of excitement about the possibility that it could just be an everyday person who could be one of the first people on Mars. How did that shift for you from the beginning of your application to Mars one all the way through, I mean, even to now, but to the height of Mars one when round three and the Mars one hundred were taking place. It is surely when I applied for the project, I was just a simple candidate who wanted to go to Mars. So that was my first wish, I was doing whatever, you know, it takes to get on board. But later on, especially after collapse of Mars one, I think there was a shift in my mindset. I always say it doesn't really matter who is going there first, me or someone else. We have to send someone. And I'm so happy that I'm hearing some, you know, like companies like, you know, Space Sieg, so Elon Musk, they are talking about sending human bike to any 30 or 2031. I think the necessity of the act is more important than I said, who is doing this fast. And Mars one had very huge, you know, role within spreading this message. And for convincing the whole, you know, the general terms, I mean, that we have to go. Why? We have got a lot of posts, you know, Professor Huffing says human needs to go to other planets, other way they can't survive. And it's quite normal. Look at this. We've got like a vulnerable planet, which is being attacked by pollution, terrorism, climate change, everything. And asteroids, we don't know every other time one asteroids is attacking up. I don't know what's going to happen. You know, they're going to change their mind and going somewhere else. If something like that happens, then who human kind, what they're going to do, they're going to stay here and die. So we must go to other planets. We have to find an order alternative, just in case something happens to us. And Mars one had a very good and very, I think, perfect slogan, which says, we're going to introduce human kinds or human beings as a multi-planetary species. And that's very good. That's very nice. Like an immigration. So if someone emigrates from one country to another country, they're going to broaden and expand their cognitive frameworks. They're going to gain new experience in terms of everything. Culture, environment, species, technologies. Right. So we can say we can emigrate or we need to immigrate from us to Mars. And as soon as we stop the project, we're going to gain new experience. First of all, for getting there, we need new and advanced technologies. So when they need arises, then the aim came, it comes in and we advance or technology. So first of all, the current technology will be advanced and who is getting benefit by current generation. Right. So there's your study as a saying, for example, you're crazy, you're not doing anything, you're hating it all. So if we're going to go to Mars, we have to advance or technology and you people who will be benefit from this. Right. So the person. And the second one, if we could get there, if we could set or build there, you can call any dare. And if something right that happens, then you people will be benefit from. You will be survived. As same as us. Right. So this is something for all people, not just for those who want to go, not for general generation or not just for different. Possibly what the next generation takes time. I want to take it a step back, though, just because you mentioned earlier that the Mars one program sort of changed your mindset, kind of change your personality a little bit with this new hope with this new program of being able to go into space, being able to go to Mars. So I'm curious, what did you learn about yourself through the Mars one process and kind of how did your mindset change? I think we had a lot of discussions back a stage between us, the hundred top candidates and also we still are there external media as well. So you know when you focus on the subject, your mental framework or your mindset is developed, right, like your appetite, your appetite is going to change when you grow up. Right. So initially the focus was, as I said, only I have to participate in this project physically otherwise the project doesn't mean to me anymore. Then I said, okay, how about if we make a team and make it happen, right. So from staff from a person to a team was the biggest change for me. So initially I was thinking I must get into the team and to be sent to Mars. No, I say I would help as a team to send someone to Mars. And this is the biggest change I think. And this is really important because if everybody, not us, the other companies on what's talking about the other countries as well, those countries we want to make a monopoly of going to Mars for themselves or to make exclusive right for themselves. If they could make a team with other countries with other organization agencies to technically collaborate in this, you know, they will definitely would be able to send someone to Mars. Right. But if they say we want to send someone from all community, it may not happen. Because it's a huge region. It needs a lot of uniconsidration technologies and things that you know. So I believe we have to team up. Pants, we need to team up to make it happen. It's really it's not so much then about the individual and everything they're bringing, although obviously in this situation being a good team player is crucial. But it really is the fact that everyone needs to partake in it and needs to be a global effort. It can't really just be one country with their perspective and their people. Exactly. That was what was great about Mars one right it was a global event that wasn't supported by a government right it was it was a private enterprise. Exactly. That was realistically trying to pick people on Mars. Well, so you've said that humans need to essentially think beyond earth right because we we may have to leave one day or you know just just having some kind of backup plan is smarter than having no plan at all. But do you see Mars as more of a backup plan for humanity or is it really just kind of like the first step towards something greater for our species. I think it's a backup plan because if we want to start or initial steps then moon is the closest one right so we can go to moon and experience living in a space in actual environment not in a like shuttle or something like that. We can experience this part by getting to about like 460,000. Okay, it's quite no close in this is up to 130 million. K away. No. So I think if we want to gain some of that. experience then you can start off quite soon. But if you want to find somewhere as a backup, which is quite similar to ours, then Mars is the best option. It's got 38% gravity, it's got almost day and night, 23 hours, something like that. And you know, everything is there. We have to go there and explore more options and the problem is it's too far, so we need to advance our technology, transportation, to have solar flares and could technically impact or communication and satellites. But I think we have to, this is the best option within the solar system, as far as I know. I think we have to look at it as backup plan for OS. More than just the backup plan initially, did you ever think about the future of Mars? You know, if you had gone on, if Mars one had been successful and you were one of the first people, one of the first teams on Mars, was there something in the back of your head that you felt like you needed to represent to influence the next generation? If I were to participate in the project directly, then I would have had lots of things to talk about, no, from personal experiences. So because I was joking, I just look at one of my interviews. I was joking to the next person who was sitting in front of me. He asked me, "What you're going to say or what you're going to be proud of when you get to Mars?" And I told him, "Whatever I do, there is going to be the first thing that a human being done on Mars, like Toyota. If I go through Toyota, my name will be recorded as a crash crash to the Toyota of Mars." So that was all I was like, "Whatever you do, there is going to be the first thing that has always been done on another planet." There's a lot of pressure though, I mean, yeah. Could be, could be. I mean, put it made up unintended. But there's a lot of pressure around everything you do is yes, the first, but it's also potentially going to set off a chain reaction that influences the way future generations of Martians go to the bathroom on Mars. So who knows what butterfly effect you would have set on. And I was joking again. I said, "We could introduce a new religion there, so we are like a new professor." You know, religious wise against, if you look at history, religious costumes, everything, norms, they were made in the same way. So the first person that this, that's why then it became like a rule, norm, and you know, a religion. But that's just a joke, you know, technically you could you could you could set up new political system, new levels, system, everything on the Mars will be done by the first people who are, you know, who will be there. So it has both responsibility and commitment as well. So you can't say, "I just got to go there and leave on my own." No, you can't do that because you're going to end you like blank space, you know, and you are like an author. So whatever you do, they will be related as history of Mars. You will have a huge responsibility and commitment towards the next kind of generation because those who are coming after you, those who want to follow you, they have to put their feet on your path, you know, they can't, they can't change everything easily. So if something wrong is built on Mars, then it's going to be really hard for the followers to change it. So you have to be really careful about what you're going to do, what sort of you know, institutions you're going to build there to make it easier for the next generation to use them. Elon Musk has said that he wants to put a million people on Mars in the near future. I don't know about the feasibility of it. I don't know the potential or the possibility of being able to put a million people on Mars. But let's, let's play pretend. Let's imagine that that does get off the ground and they are able to start doing that. You know, are you, are you still mentally, physically, emotionally preparing for a possible Mars mission or since the days of Mars one, have your goals evolved? Of course I do. But the problem is, you know, on the bits it's a point that the bad being selected because we are living in another country which is not part of the United States and unfortunately they don't come to, you know, can see their external applicants for their vision. If they do, of course, but I'm mentally, physically and, you know, emotionally prepare for such missions. I've got black belt in martial arts and self-defense of physically always kept myself in the best shape, right? Just to engage if they call me, "Hey, thank you, bag and comment." So I have that part. Emotionally, yes, it's, it's a bit hard, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm a human, right? I'm a human, like an ordinary human, like anybody else. It's, it's hard to live your family behind. But wherever you look at the broader picture and even you say, "Oh, we're going for such conclusions, such, you know, like achievements," then it makes it easier, you know, to tolerate. So I always try to keep the situation and I call it my hack to Mars. So I'll put it there and it's ready. I put it in my life suitcase and I kept it in my wardrobe. And if the situation happens, or even the Mars one, I'm still hopeful that Mars one could restart again and finish its mission. And if the situation alone, then I will be definitely one of the first people who will be there. Speaking of your family before and kind of how hard it is to think about the potential of leaving them behind, you know, since the days of Mars one and then having time to have processed it, having a lot of time to have processed it, do you think they'd be more understanding at this point, right? Just because from what you're telling me, it sounds like you look for any opportunity you can to further your own education, to further your own experience as a human being, right? You obviously care about us as a species because that was something that came up with being able to extend humanity beyond earth. That message, did that resonate with your family? Do you think they'd still be supportive at this point? Sort of. I can't exactly say that they will, you know, 100% accept this because there's still some emotional attachments to the whole family. But I give them technically this example that's, look at those people who are going to war. So we had war war one, two, and the recent wars, which are happening around the globe in Middle East, Ukraine, you know. So if we say, so these soldiers who are going to fight, they are crazy, right? Can we say that? No, we can't. Why? Because they are going to get killed, right? When you go to war. But they are going to defend their country, to defend their people for that achievement, for that goal, that makes it in a huge, that makes it really honorable. So when we look at the reason, not the art, then we can justify it. But the problem with, you know, like the critic and the social media these days is, they only look at the art rather than the reason. So I would say the same situation. So we are a space soldier. We are going to defend our planet. Why? We don't, we don't see their like, you know, tangible threats now, but it doesn't mean that there wouldn't be any danger or threats or hazards in future, okay? So a wise person doesn't before it happens. So we go and find another alternative. We may die somewhere, you know, from Earth to Mars or even on the Mars. But when we look at the reason, then we can just survive. If there's no reason, then there's no justification. Simple as this. So I always compare this with the war. And so in the war, another country could be your enemy in our situation or natural disasters or asteroids or something like that could be your enemies. So we have to prepare ourselves. I mean, the dinosaurs didn't have any space soldiers and what happened to them? Exactly. So they were saying, I assume the first dinosaur was talking to another dinosaur who was saying, what if something happens to a planet? They say, oh, you crazy men, get lost. Don't waste my time. And they died altogether. So if the first dinosaur was suggesting to the second dinosaur, that hey, man, thank you back and good, you had another planet by another alternative, they had survived, but they didn't. Yeah, that's a good example. Being from Iran and then at the time as well, being representative of New Zealand, being representative of your culture, of your background, you must have also found that you were being very inspirational to the youth at the time, to the next generation, right? people who maybe perhaps didn't see much of a path for them to become astronauts. And that was something that was seen through you. And so I'm curious what's the one message that you would want them to take away from your journey so far? I had lots of presentations back down and one of the specific ones was at one of the secondary school in Auckland. And then we went to the theatre. I was so like 100, 200 students in boy and girl and they were so excited. And then I started the presentation. Kids are always the obvious praying, talking, you know, playing and they were all sitting on the chairs, no one even, you know, brave. And then when I was talking to them, I tried to say, "Hey, always respect your dreams." And then you dream about something, don't leave it, always leave it and grow it and do your best to achieve it. Don't just dream, you know, walk towards them if they need any sort of qualification. Go get it, equip yourself to those. And if you think your wish needs to spend a couple of years at university, do it. Do whatever you like, like not your love. You do whatever you want or whatever it takes to, you know, join your love or to your find your wife. Whatever you want to say, in example, dreams are like that. So do your best to perform at your best to make your dreams a reality. Love that. That's fantastic. You do a lot. I mean, you've got an impressive background. You are obviously very motivated to want to try new things and push your own boundaries, let alone the boundaries for humanity, what actually motivates you on a day-to-day basis. At the moment, I'm just trying to level up my knowledge in different aspects. So I just started blogging things that I've never done that before. And I see myself so obsessed about the things that I start off. I think part of my personality, I don't start something, but if I start it, I've rid my 100 person on it to make it happen. And I was talking to my wife last night and he said, "Oh, son is like you." When he wants to get something done, he doesn't leave it. You know, he has started, he finishes it, then he goes to another things. So nowadays, I just try to develop my knowledge in the game you experience. I welcome all the new experiences almost every day and I never rejected anything you do myself. And I think being open to new events, new knowledge, new things, I don't know whatever, is one of the best way to you to wait yourself to prove that you are useful. It doesn't matter to you for coming in. Because sometimes you don't have access to your community, you can serve your family, you can serve your close friend, you can serve your love, you can serve your wife, doesn't matter. Okay, whoever is around you, try to satisfy them. And this is the best motivation for stuffy things on a day-to-day basis. Sayied, thank you for sharing all about your journey, about the passion, first phase exploration, applied physics, medicine now at this point, the ever-growing need to learn more and develop yourself, you know, really honestly, your dedication to pushing your boundaries, to pushing our own boundaries and inspiring future generations to me is really remarkable. So honestly, whether it's on Earth or Mars, I personally look forward to seeing the impact that you continue to make. Thank you very much, I was a very pleasure conversation, made after a long time, I had someone like, now we just say mindset that we were talking about something that a lot to talk about, like pleasure being on this podcast. Did you know that in 1971, Soviet engineers launched Amar's Lander that accidentally ended up orbiting Earth for a couple of days instead? Cosmos 419 was meant to be the first space craft to land on Mars, but a mystic mission left it stuck in Earth orbit, where it quietly circled the planet for a bit as a ghost of early interplanetary ambition. Even failures can become monuments to boldness. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of aspiring Martians. If you enjoyed the conversation, please subscribe, maybe leave a review, and share it with others who dream of one day calling Mars home. It really helps keep this mission growing. A huge thank you to Dr. Sayied Gundari for joining me today and sharing his powerful story and perspective to Nick Thorburn for our stellar theme music, to Sessie Gileo for the beautiful graphics, to Ardan, Leila, Inca, and Carl for admitting the Facebook group, and to my family for always supporting this journey even when it detours into orbital trivia. Stay connected on social media and our website, aspiring Martians.com, and join us next week as we meet more of the people shaping a future beyond Earth. Until then, keep dreaming, keep moving forward, and remember every mission leaves a mark, even the ones that don't go as planned. Thanks for listening aspiring Martians.