262. Own the Room: How Voice, Breath, and Body Work Together

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Growth shouldn't depend on whether you happen to have access to the right mentor or organization. Everyone deserves support and becoming more effective, more thoughtful, and more confident in how they show up. Visit strawberry.me/smart and take 50% of your first session. Make sure you let them know Matt sent you that strawberry.me/smart and now back to our conversation. To fully be present and in the moment, you must awaken your voice. My name is Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today I am delighted to speak with Patsy Ruddenberg. Patsy is a world-renowned expert in voice, speech, and presentation, with over 45 years of experience coaching across creative and corporate industries. She's the former head of voice at the UK Royal National Theatre and a director for the Royal Shakespeare Company. She has transformed how actors, prime ministers, CEOs, and global leaders communicate. She's written many books including Presence and Power Presentation. Welcome, Patsy. I've been excited for our conversation for quite a while now. Thanks for being here. I'm so delighted. And Matt, I think you're doing something so important about communication, because I think it's what the world needs now. Thank you so much. Shall we get started? Yes, please. Excellent. You have worked with a number of famous people to help them with their presence in voice. I'd like to start with voice. What are some of the foundational vocal principles you provide when you coach? My work is about embodiment, and it's about a craft that is returning people to their natural selves. The good news is the vast majority of people are born with amazing voices. And somewhere along the line, they lose them. And my job is to return people to their full power in their body, in their breath systems, in their voices, in their ability to speak, and use language in an exciting way. Beyond the embodiment piece, are there principles you help people with around breathing or articulation? Can you walk us through some of those exercises? So the first thing I would do is I would look at somebody's body, and I would look at the tensions in the body, starting with the feet. The body is like a connected journey. We have to connect to our whole body to find our voice. So the feet, the front of the feet, the knees not being locked. If you lock your knees, that tension goes all the way through the body into the throat. A lot of people with very tight voices. If you look down, they're locking their knees. The next thing that's incredibly important in the body, is that the pelvic area is on top of the hips. But most people today, when they stand, they're either pushing their hips forward, locking their knees, and all that builds into the body and up into the throat. But the important thing about the pelvic area is that that is where we have to breathe from. It's a very low breath down there. We also have to breathe quickly to think quickly. If we think without breath, it becomes a gamble. So if you put your hand on your lower abdominal area and just feel that, you should feel the breath goes down. And that takes a bit of time and it calms you. We get frightened when we speak because we forget to breathe. So if I move up through the body, the spine has to be up, not braced, not pulling your shoulders back, not slumped. If we brace or slump, we reduce our breath, and the energy gets stuck in the throat, which is when those wonderful ideas, you have, they come out on a monotone, not because you're boring, because your voice is held and tight. And those two last things, the shoulders being free. If you're getting nervous, if you feel your voice is getting thinner, the first thing you can do is just to think to yourself, "Release my shoulders, release my jaw." Because until the body's in place, you can't breathe, and we're looking to see no upper chest tension. You can put your hand on your upper chest, and if you breathe in, which most people do, when they're nervous, the chest lifts. It shouldn't lift, because as it lifts, I don't know if you can feel the back of the ribcage type means that you're not breathing, because the lungs are at the back. So it's balance of body and rooting yourself into the ground? Yes, and looking out at the world, and of course, we know who we're going to listen to, long before they speak. We know through their body. And if you're centered, you come on, or you walk into a space with authority, with clarity. So the next thing I would do is open the voice, with the breath underneath it. And you can feel this, if you're sitting beside a desk, if you push your hands against the table. Remember your feet on the floor, the front of the feet, on the floor, and you breathe, you will feel the breath go down. Well, that's a great activity. I'm doing that as I speak, and I see what you're saying. It is fascinating to me that body leads to breath, which leads to voice. And by connecting those together, you can improve and open up your voice to do the things that we wanted to do. I often will say, your voice is like a wind instrument. The more air you put through it, the more you can do with it. The limited voice work that I do, I recommend to my students and the people I coach, that reading out loud can be a tool to help, because it mimics speaking out loud, but it gives you a little bit more cognitive bandwidth to pay attention to breath, because I don't have to think of the words. I'm reading them. Read out loud. Absolutely. Here's another trick, though. So if you stand with your book, maybe you're reading out loud, and you're holding the book up so that you're not looking down, which is not useful. And if you hold the book with one hand and stand against the wall and gently push with your other arm, which engages the breath, just like it did when you were pushing the table, you'll feel the breath. Now take a breath and read out sending your voice to a point just above our line. And then the voice not only leaves you, but it grows in strength. Most voices I meet, there's nothing wrong with them. They can be improved, Matt, but they're just rusty and dusty. They're not used. Do you know? I often tell people in my mind, I'm amazingly eloquent, but when I open up my mouth, I'm not as lucky. You said several things there that really stand out to me. The voices you meet, I love that idea that we are our voice, and we meet the person, but the voice they bring. And I like this idea of being generous enough to let your voice out. Your voice is a gift, and you're giving it to the world. I want to get very tactical and practical here. Many people I know feel that their voice is quiet. They speak quiet. You said something that made me wonder. You said visualize your voice going out over your eye line. I imagine like an athlete warms up that there are some things we can do to help warm up our voice. I often marvel that people think they can go from silence to vocal brilliance without warming up. Do you have a favorite warm-up activity or two that you could share that we could practice, perhaps? I'd get somebody standing. Of course, you stand. You feel you stretch a bit. You let the shoulders go. You might flop over to one side and breathe. The ribcage starts working. The ribcage gets very rusty very quickly. Do both sides so that we just get that very gentle silent breath. So if your breath is quietly, you'll be amazed how wonderful it feels in the throat. It's open. And the other one, which is great, is to give yourself a hug. Just flop over a bit from the waist with your arms up against your chest. And in that position, breathe in and out. And you will open the back of the ribcage. I have to say, once people today, don't even think that the back of the ribcage is important. But we know it organically, so that it gets those muscles working. And then, first thing in the morning, you have to get the breast underneath the voice. So here's an image. I mean, you're an athlete. You know these things to throw the voice. So if you can throw a ball, if you just breathe in, there's a suspension and you throw the ball on the breath. Just like you did when you were pushing against the wall, you're feeling the breath. If you can do that and hum to a point, say you're just warming up, the support of the breath, humming. Very light. And you can play it all over the play. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. You can play with your voice. And you're trying to get a buzz on the lips, which is the physical sign that your voice is coming forward. Most people today, their voices stuck back down this throat. So they're mumbling down there. And if the voice is stuck down this throat, you can't speak clearly because the speech muscles can't feel the energy of the voice, keep the breath, keep the idea of it leaving you, and then maybe on an "oo" that's a lovely way of getting the voice forward. "oo" just bring your lips and literally if you did that for a few minutes and then you spoke a bit of text out a lour, or if you're having a difficult conversation practice it out a lourd. Walk around the house with purplice with your presence, walk around looking around, look outside a window, breathed, and practice what you have to say. Practice out a lourd. Thank you so much. I have heard of vocal warmups where you buzz your lips and puff out air, but I have never heard of working with the body, stretching the body. I like just leaning to the side, opening up the ribs, leaning forward, hugging yourself very useful, and I like that idea of visualizing pulling the voice forward so we're not mumbling. What I'm doing now is I'm just imagining the voice projected out, it's not puffed, it's just you let it out, and within a few days you will feel the difference. This is the simple stuff that people forget they want to get onto the speech. Speech is the last thing in the chain, so once you've warmed up your body and your breath and your voice you can start moving your mouth about a bit, but these muscles would tune up very quickly as long as they've got the voice and the breath behind them. Yet again you are emphasizing the connection of body, breath, and voice. I'd like to transition to talk about physical presence, something I know is very important to you. What advice do you have for anyone wishing to improve their physical presence in how they communicate? I think the physical presence of the human being is the most important thing we have. We don't do anything well in life unless we put our full presence on it, but it's if you talk to anthropologists what made us so powerful on the planet is that we could build teams. A team doesn't exist until everyone is present and presence is having an energy connecting to the world around you and we all have it. It's the survival thing that we do, but presence is an outward focus not on yourself, but to something else. It's what we do when we walk in the countryside. We become present because we look at a tree or a bird in a tree. That's what art is supposed to do. It's supposed to bring us back to our presence. We go to the theatre. The actor has to be present. The ensemble is present and they help bring us back, as Shakespeare says, to be or not to be. That is the question. And so I believe we're all born fully present. Most of us, very few people on the planet haven't got presence. So we have to refine it. I started this in the 70s and I created something called the three circles of energy because I found people were saying, "Oh, that actor has it and that one doesn't have it, which is rubbish. We all have it." So what I talk about in presence is if we understand where we take our presence away from ourselves, and that's for us, circle. For circle people, you will often see it in their body. They're pulling their presence away. They're looking down. They're shallow breasts. So they're going into a little shell and the voice follows. I'm going to do a voice of first circle when everything falls back. So instead of the voice going out, it's falling back. We can work in all sorts of ways on presence, but I would ask people to do exactly what I've talked about in the voice and look out to the world and make sure that they're not in first circle, which is that pulling back. I used to call it denial. I used to call second circle a state of readiness. So any athlete I'd work with, I can get them immediately present because they know that they have to be present to win the game. Third circle is when people are bluffing and they push out and you'll see third person energy pushing out their chest. They're too loud that we meet at a party and they're looking beyond you. They're not with you. So the most powerful thing we can do in communication is stay present with somebody, present with a group and when it works and people become present with us, we have an exchange. You can't ever say anything important to somebody unless you're present and they're present. So we practice every day being present and you can by just sitting breathing to a point and looking at something across the room or imagine doing something that you do very well and you'll realize you're present. If you drive very well, you're present. If you craft people are present, you don't make a great table without putting your presence into it and we can physically say to ourselves, look, I've just pulled back on my heels, my shoulders are grounded, my sternum has collapsed, my head and my breath is very shallow and I've just absented myself from the world. I like this notion of the circles and that the happy medium is in between the pulling and the pushing. It seems to me that it starts with awareness. You have to have that awareness of where are you in that moment and certainly different emotions, different situations might cause you to start in one place but once you have that awareness, you can move and it sounds to me that we can check in with our bodies that there are physical tells of where we are to bring us forward to that neutral place. It's about generosity and curiosity. If you're curious and you're generous, you're generally presence. Now, the thing that you've said that's so important is that the physicality that we're talking about that stops the breath in the voice, either putting away in first circle or pushing out in third, that stops us being aware of our presence. It cuts us off from the world. When you and I very first chat it and it was a lovely first chat we had, you said something that really stuck with me. You told me your thoughts on how important leveraging the space around us is for our communication. Most of us think of communication as getting what I have in my head into your head but the space in which we do it and how we leverage that space can be really important. Can you share some insights on why we should pay attention to our communication environment? Because A, we're talking about our physical energy which is a physical energy around us. We have a problem in our design is that we haven't got three 16 sites so we do have to feel around us. So when you're speaking to people you have to be aware of their space and your space. Now that could also be making sure that you sit in a place where everyone can see you. It's a simple stage craft but you have to have the sense that there's space and rest around you and everyone. For them to feel safe enough we talk about a safe space whether any space is safe but the leader who allows everyone their space and that we can all see each other and recognise each other is a very good lead and has a chance to make people feel at ease. It's the physical space around us and then we get into stage craft when what is the best place to stand? What is the best place? You see people giving key notes and they're standing and actually you know if there's 500 people 50 can't see them because they're in the right place. Now that doesn't mean to say you can't walk around but you've got to establish things and you have to establish a safety in a way within your space. Where am I sitting? Am I looking down at you? Am I doing this? I say to teachers, do you know that most of the students can't see you and you're wondering why they're bored? So those are the sorts of things. It's our physical presence which does have space and when somebody enters it without permission it can be scary. When we're in second circle with our space and we're seeing each other we have equality. First circle people by pulling back they're not necessarily inferior but they're signaling inferiority. Third circle people they're pushing their space and they're taking up too much space. They're signaling superiority. So we have to have a regard for each other's space because then we can be equal. Thinking about how space and our use of space helps communicate things is really important. I have a very particular instance that came to mind. I was coaching a very senior leader of a company everybody has heard of and he was up on stage presenting and he had something very serious to say they were going to do a reduction in force people were going to lose their jobs and totally spontaneously this was not rehearsed because I worked with him on his content. He stepped off the stage and walked into the audience to deliver the message and while the message was not pleasing people were not happy to hear the news it felt different. There was a connection that happened in that moment when he walked off the stage. It was not in authentic or disingenuous and I think he really felt that in that moment where you put yourself says a lot. But that's a wonderful example of him realizing that he had to meet them closer. We have to think about it and we need to avoid the lecterns and podiums that cause us to be back from the audience which causes us into third circle and mask we become masked. We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge. Think about the last time you walked into a big meeting a presentation or podcast recording and wished your key points could stay with you without losing eye contact or your train of thought. That's exactly what even realities was built for. 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When I create just for you and the others are similar across everybody, are you up for that? - Yep. - So across your varied experiences, I am sure you have worked with many people who have anxiety around whatever they're doing, a doctor giving bad news, somebody giving a keynote that's really important, actors getting out on stage and taking risks that they haven't. Do you have two or three things that you can quickly share that help people feel more confident in their communication in those circumstances? - Number one, we've talked about it. Try to stand up, feel the floor, release your shoulders and before you go into the space, breathe deeply and slowly, keep that going. Feel the suspension of the breath, which is, I breathe in just that moment before you throw a ball and this sounds counter intuitive. As you go into any space, look at people in the eyes. The more you look, the calmer you get. You look at people, you breathe, you take your time, you don't rush to begin with, the rushing will kick off even more adrenaline and you'll get more panicked. If you have a chance before you go into a space or even if you're in a space, you can reset by thinking, I'll just stop for a moment and take another breath. I promise you, it will help. I can't get rid of the nerves, but the nerves don't become debilitating. - And I think the anxiety and nervousness can actually help you, it gives you energy and focus, but I like this idea of the physicality of the deep breath and then the connecting through eye contact. Well, I agree sounds counter intuitive. For me, it works really well because I realize these are normal people who just want to be and get some value from what I have to say. - And then I also say, worry about the audience rather than yourself. I'm relief that you can worry about them understanding you. And they'll give it back. The more generous you are in life, in these ways, the more you get back. - Thank you for that generous answer and for giving us very specific actionable ideas. Question number two, and you have worked with so many, I'll be very curious, who is a communicator that you admire and why? - Michelle Obama comes to mind. - She takes her time, she's listening, she's with you, she's with the audience, and she's not frightened of being disliked. One of the most off-putting things is people wanting to be liked all the time. - Final question for you, Patsy. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe? - Prepare an embodied way, practice it, knowing that it won't be verbatim, practice. And again, it's the curiosity and the generosity that you bring into the space. - How wonderful of a recipe. It's about preparing, practicing, being present with your generosity and curiosity, a great recipe and great advice. And Patsy, thank you so much. You have done an amazing job of being very generous and helping us not only awaken our voices in our presence, but awaken our minds to new ways of communicating and really connecting with others. - Thank you. - Absolutely my pleasure. - Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, The Podcast. To learn more about nonverbal presence, please listen to episode 137 with Dana Karning. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wunder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out fastersmarter.io for deep-dive videos, English-language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider our premium offering for extended deep-thinks episodes, ask Matt anythings, and much more at fastersmarter.io/premium. - Before we wrap up, I just wanna say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.