Overtime – Episode #742: Jessica Tarlov, Kevin Roose, Christopher Rufo

Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO late night series real-time with Bill Maugh. He is the host of the machine-guards podcast and author of the A.J.A. Chronicles Kevin Russey, the senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of the America's Cultural Revolution, Drift to the Rural, and she's the host of the five on Fox News and her book is called "I disagree, I disagree, I guess I could turn around." All right, these are the questions from the people. What does the panel think of Trump banning CNN, Politico, NMS Now, from the White House because he says they are fake news. He just did that, I thought he did that like 10 years ago. Like an hour before we came on. I thought he did it like 10 years ago. He's been trying, it's a slow burn. I thought he threw the people out of the press. It was the AP at first because they wouldn't call it "Gulf of America." I forgot. And the Pentagon didn't, aren't they? Oh, they're all gone. Yeah, they got, they were able to pull that one off. This feels like a truth social move versus like what will actually happen. There'll be a solidarity stand with the ballots that are still allowed in. Everything in this country is always just like, everything is terrible, unless our side does it, and then it's always perfectly okay. I mean, like the free speech thing, I mean, come on. You know what I mean? It has to make you laugh a little. This is a mistake, and the same way it was a mistake for Robert Kraft to ban Maclamore. You're giving your opponents an easy win. They can say we stand for free speech. Good journalism, we're being kicked out of the White House. I think it's a mistake strategically, but it's also a mistake on the substance. The president's best moments are oftentimes in combat with people from the left-wing media. And so, as conservatives, we don't have the benefit of having the mainstream media on our side. We have to be smart in how we do combat with the left-wing media if we want to have our message break through. And so, hunkering down, remaining in the echo chamber, it's a mistake on all fronts. Can I just- So, we agree. We all agree. Yeah, but I just want to add to that. You guys aren't the media victims. You actually have more share of eyeballs than the left does. So, Fox has many more millions of viewers on a per-hour basis than CNN or MSNOW combined. The biggest podcasts are conservatives. I mean, that's one way to measure it, but there's also who has more clout. Clout is what matters. The cool kids are all on it. Like to get into a party, maybe, but- Well, not just the party, but the cool kids are all on the left. That means a lot. That matters a lot. That's not where you're not cool. Network television. I'm very cool. I'm very cool, but network television, of course, you know, most of Hollywood. And to Bill's point, it's about prestige, and so, look, the fact of the matter, the New York Times, is more powerful than Fox News. Yes. That's how it is. I wish it weren't that way, but that's the world we live in. Okay. Kevin, what is the relationship between effective altruism and AI companies? And there's another one of those terms. I didn't hear it just this week. I've been hearing it for a while. Effective altruism. I mean, it sounds like something you could not possibly disagree with. If there really was such a thing as effective altruism, to me, that, oh, that's perfect. That's exactly what we want, altruism, but effective. But I don't think that's exactly what it is, is it? Well, effect altruism is a movement that started more than a decade ago. And when it started, it was mostly about things like malaria nets in the global south. Pandemic prevention. It was this group of young people. I sort of called them, like, moneyball from morality. They sort of said, well, if we just analyze which charities are saving the most lives, we can give all our money there and we'll do the most good. Right. And they got really interested in AI and AI safety very early, relative to most people. They were writing and talking about it many years ago. And so as a result, they sort of trained this generation of AI workers, who now, if you go to the big AI companies, you know, some percentage of them are effective altruists, or at least identified with them. And, you know, there are people on the right who think this is all a grand conspiracy. It's a, you know, it's a cult, it's a religion. They do, I've been to some effective altruism things. There are some strange things about them. They're very concerned about shrimp welfare. This is a cause that they care a lot about. But they've also been very invested in the food. The food? Yes. Because they have calculated that shrimp suffer in the greatest numbers when you eat them, because you're eating so many of them. You know? You're only eating. Anyway. I mean, I'm. Yeah, I mean. So. I want all animals not to suffer, but. So, they do. I also want to eat. Some strange things. I've got to eat. Animals got to eat. Yeah. I mean, you know. But they have been very correct directionally about AI for a long time, that it would continue to get better and more dangerous. So, I wouldn't throw them completely under the bus. Okay. Panel, do you believe Gavin Newsom? Do you believe Gavin Newsom when he says he would not run in 2028 if Kamal. Oh, yes, I saw that this week. That fly-fishing. Yes. He was fly-fishing with Jake Tapper. In, like, what looks like regular clothes. With no waiters. Yeah. Okay, that's in a way. This reminds me of John Kerry and the Duck Outfit. Remember the Duck Outfit? You know, why do they do this? Fly-fishing. Do I really believe Gavin Fly-fishes? And if he does, I'm with this rump on this one. I know. Okay. But, and then, first of all, if you're fly-fishing with Jake Tapper, you're running for president. That's my take away from this. It surprised me because it seemed so implausible for someone who goes to South Carolina regularly and prop 50, which needed to be done to counter Trump and Texas and other states. What's prop 50? The redistricting. Okay. No, I'm just saying he's kind of taking the mantle of, like, I'm the fighter. I'm going to defend. Right. So that feels like a presidential thing to do. It's a baited dissentist. Remember for no reason. The one of them was running. It's fun to make fun of him. Yeah. Just to be like, I'm the guy. Right. So, I don't want to call people liars, but that feels, like, maybe a little bit of a fib, or he'll get in first. Sounds like you just called him a liar. I mean, that's okay. But it's quite a political lie. That's a wild lie to me. I mean, that's what politicians do. They never just say I'm running for president. I'm going to an exploratory committee. And if they don't run, it's like-- Talking about the people in my way. And talking about my family. Oh, it's all bullshit. Okay. Chris, you've become a go-to guy for people to send school curriculums they find too woke. Has this continued at a steady pace or dropped off in recent years? I don't know if they mean sending to you or the curriculum itself? Yeah, no, it's a great question. Look, I think a lot of institutions and in particular schools have realized that the panic around BLM, George Floyd, 2020, transgender ideologies went way too far. And I'm seeing a lot of these school districts and blue states, red states, start to moderate, start to actually get back to what parents want. And most importantly, focusing on what kids actually need. They don't need a shrine to George Floyd in the kindergarten classroom. They need to learn their ABCs. And we're going back to that, and I think that's a win. All right. Okay. Kevin, is there a technology outside of AI that people should be paying attention to? Well, I know the one they are, flock cameras. That's true. Yeah, flock cameras are a big deal. Yeah, people are. People are so pissed about them. On both sides. Yes. It's like they have figured out a way to make surveillance. You know, it's amazing, the sort of things that catch on. We've had cameras everywhere for years. You know, people have listening devices in their homes. They're called Alexa. But all of a sudden, you put a flock camera up on a telephone pole and it becomes this incredible magnet for criticism. People are vandalizing them, taking them down. So yeah, I think this is a big deal. It is funny because I know people who think they've been saved by them. You know, if you're in the neighborhood and they, you know, they do catch a lot of criminals. Yeah. I think the abuse is, I mean, part of this is just the media environment and that there are people turn into civilian journalists and they tell stories of when the abuse has happened. And they're so egregious that you think, oh, my God, there's a cop who's following his ex-girlfriend using a flock camera. Yeah, that's not okay, obviously. But I feel like everything related to tech right now is just in one big anxiety bucket. So they're like flock cameras, data centers, super intelligence. So every Alexa and they want help. They want to feel like people who know more than them are going to try to protect them. I also think people feel like we didn't ask for all of this. You know, we can't get rid of our phones and we don't want it. I mean, they're miraculous. No one would deny that. But they also have fucked up the kids and the adults to a great degree. Yeah. And there is a pushback on all of this stuff. Cameras, flock cameras, surveillance, phones, AI. We're still humans. We cannot evolve as quickly as the technology is. And it doesn't feel as good. I mean, we want to hang out with each other and touch, you know, intimately. Not-- [LAUGHTER] Why? I did not come here to come on to you. I am the same. You know, you know what I mean. For us, you know what I mean. I'm not going to touch you. [APPLAUSE] This is very awkward, Mrs. Robinson. What do you think of Donald Trump staying at the Kennedy Center is in a virtual state of collapse? I was just there. Look good, right? It looked fantastic. In fact, all weekend, I kept saying to people, "What a bunch of bullshit this is that it needs renovation." Obviously, that's just a cover story. This place is perfect-looking, and the people were great. -It's a knee-like ramming his own wrecking balls into it, and then saying, "Oh, it needs help." -Well, wrecking balls, I've not heard that yet. He did, he wanted his name on it, and the judge said he couldn't put his name on it. So then when we were there for the award, he covered it with. he just covered the whole building. There was just a giant tarp over the whole building so that, you know, we couldn't see any name. -Couldn't. -Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not good. He shouldn't be doing that. [ Laughter and applause ] -All right, I'm just going to leave it for Frank. There's something I'm not going to do about it. It's not good. All right. -Hatch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10 or watching anytime on HBO On Demand. 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