Our mission is to focus on the ecosystem, focus on the app developers, focus on marketers and build a press software to allow them to overcome today's and tomorrow's challenges. This is what will maximize value to customers in the long hold five years and years. And also will maximize revenue. I really want to take part in this kind of a revolution, nothing less than that, maybe change everything. From GGV, this is Founder Real Talk, where we get real about the challenges that founders start up executive faith and how they've grown from tough experiences. I'm your host, Glenn Solomon. Without further ado, here's today's episode. In our Israeli Founder Real Talk series, we usually have one orange on the line, my colleague or any younger from GGV. Hey, Orange. Hey, Orange. But today I am in trouble. I'm outnumbered. I've got two orange on the line. We're thrilled to welcome another impressive Israeli founder to the show. Orrin Keniel is co-founder and CEO of AppsFlyer, the global attribution leader. We're going to talk more about that, which is trusted by more than 12,000 brands, including Coca-Cola, HBO, Walmart, eBay, and many more. Orrin founded AppsFlyer in 2011 to solve one of the major problems in the mobile apps market, mobile campaign analytics and attribution. We're excited to learn more about Orange Journey and hear about how AppsFlyer has become one of the fastest growing SaaS companies on the planet today. Orrin, welcome to Founder Real Talk. Hey, Glenn. Thank you. Hey, Orrin. What's up? It's great to have you. But before we dig into AppsFlyer and its tremendous growth, let's talk a little bit about your background. You went from serving in the Israeli military to holding management and software engineering positions at Intel, Avaya, Varaz, and a stint at a venture capital firm stage two ventures all before you found that AppsFlyer in 2011. Just curious, that's quite a varied background. How did your time and all these various experiences you had helped shape your decision to pursue engineering? And what lessons did you learn that you take with you today in AppsFlyer? Great. Really, I think that I was born an engineer to some extent. So my father is a mechanical engineer. My mom is a math teacher. So I remember I was born in mid-70s. So in the early 80s, I was playing with Commodore 64. I don't know. You probably guys, you remember that. I was a TRS80 radio shack guy myself. That's awesome. I think that was an amazing period of time to grow up. And then with the first PCs in early 80s, I was working for PC hardware shop. It's like maybe the Israeli version of radio shack or something like that. And I remember that as my side business as a kid, I was maybe, I don't know, I was a kid. I was helping customers that have been buying PCs because you've been buying this box, but you couldn't really do much without, because there was an internet, no hard drive. So you had to have someone like me to show you around and copying discets. So I remember that I was preparing kind of discs. It wasn't CD-Rocks. It's like discs, like floppy discs with menus. So I prepared the menus for the customers just to put that in the box, in the PC and put it up. And you have a menu and then you can select from the menu, you don't have to do anything coding or writing or anything, just enjoy the machine. So this is something that I was doing very, very, very early days. And then I thought about how to scale it because the customer has been taking me from, I was using my bicycle or people have been taking me from my parents home back and forth. And then I opened the BBS in my parents house. I don't know, you know, in these days, they were telling people BBS, they don't know what I'm talking about. So maybe BBS is kind of a peer-to-peer communication. So instead of the WWI address, you're just using phone number and the phone number is going to a computer, a computer and then you connect that with a kind of a fax protocol. That was an amazing period of time, because imagine that you surf into one's website. And that website can serve only you. And the operator is on the other side talking with you. And I remember that we had been adding phone lines because my mom didn't understand why she cannot use the phone line and there was no phone calls. So we're talking about early days. So we had a couple of phone lines. So that was an amazing experience, because if you think about it right now when you're going into a website because of this kind of server and then you have a lot of visitors. Back then, every visitor got a personal experience. So everybody that had been logging in during the time that we were awake, obviously, giving them really good experience and we built a lot of relationship. Actually, my co-founder, Rechef, was, I gave him an admin, which was kind of rare. So we can talk about it later. And also had my first software project. So I think that being an engineer and thinking like an engineer and coding and doing computer stuff that was very, very, very early days. I remember that I was working for PC lab, building computers and fixing them. So it didn't last. I wanted to work with people around technology. So I couldn't stay in a lab and not saying people all day. So you mentioned the military. So for me, it wasn't kind of the classic 8,200 or this kind of stuff. So I was doing something else. But I was also kind of entrepreneur in the military base. So I was kind of, there was one computer in the military base and I kind of computerized the base using that computer. It was kind of a side project. I don't know if chief and professor security officers, it was a while ago. So there is no problem now. So I still consider myself as an engineer or software engineer. Although my last line of code was kind of a while ago. And I think that this is how I'm thinking about stuff today in a very logical way. I like to use data but not so much. I like to have gut feeling that are fed by facts and not by assumptions. I can separate facts and assumptions and decision making. How do I and how the organization is making decisions? So it's awesome. Absel, you're still building the networks and configuring the IT servers if you need some help. Oh, you get that. You get that. So my official title in the company is IT manager. Okay. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Obviously. And once we scaled that they've been automating all the titles and all the stuff that you need to automate when you're reaching such scale. And all of a sudden they changed my title because they thought there is a bug. Hey, I see that. I like the manager. Something is wrong and they've been looking for this bug for two days. And I know this is his thing. He's still an IT manager. I see IT manager or IT management as a neighbor and I see myself as a neighbor these days. This is what I do. I serve my people. I serve this company and I serve everybody in the organization to allow them to be themselves, to allow them to do great things, to allow them to build stuff that they didn't even imagine that they can build. So yes, I'm still an IT manager. Oh, thanks God that we have now a big department. They're doing an awesome job. But I remember in the early days when I was in my office, I always had a computer that installing stuff for a new employee. So I was kind of doing that from the side. Cool. CEO, Chief Enableman Officer, I like that. Exactly. Cool. So you mentioned RESTFMUN who was the legendary admin, but he also co-founder of AFLAR, which you co-founder together in 2011. How did you meet RESTFMUN and what made you decide to start a company together? So I know RESTFMUN for many, many years. We met in high school. So we were high school friends. So after high school and I told you, I gave him an admin rights in the BBS. So I think that that was me and my brother and RESTF had admin rights on this BBS. We've been studying computer science together in the Technion, which is in the northern part of Israel. I consider it to be the MIT of Israel. And yeah, we've been traveling in South America together. So our kind of history, we know each other for many, many, many years. And when we've been thinking about South Indian companies, so that was kind of a natural thing for us. So I think it's funny because after we started to work on the company, we realized that back in school in the university, we actually been working on a project that is analytics for e-commerce. And that was the year of 2009.
like 20 years ago. And 20 years ago, there was no Google. It started as a search engine for Yahoo. And Amazon was just books and was buying things on internet was kind of crazy. And we've been working on this kind of a project 20 years ago. And I think that for us, it really makes sense to kind of join forces and work together with a very different than each other. But there is a lot of trust and I think that we complement each other. And we have fun because this is a 24 hours, seven days a week thing that we're doing here. So when we started, I know you asked about how we started the company. Yeah, I mean, why would you, you know, at what point you said that this is what we want to do and how? So I think that the work kind of moments for me, I was in the US in 2010. And then I bought my first iPhone and I found the cheap one on Craigslist because I was a poor student. I was a Blackberry person. I thought that Blackberry is a face, the best thing. I couldn't, I didn't think that Apple could build anything that is close to there. Obviously, I was very wrong. And I remember when first time I got my first iPhone, I didn't, I didn't go to sleep. I was awake and I was kind of been convinced that this device is going to change everything about everything that we are doing. And I really wanted to take it apart in this kind of a revolution. Nothing, nothing less than that. I mean, it changed everything. If you think about our lives, 10 years ago, it was very, very, very different in a radical way. And we've been thinking about how can we add value? We wanted to focus on on B2B because we personally, you know, the fact that I can pick up the phone and talk with professionals that they can learn, that they can learn about the challenge that I can learn how they utilize our software and how we can help them and delight them even even more into solving their today's problems and the future problems. I thought that this is unpowered. We also noticed that app developers in my time in this stage two, I noticed that app developers do not know and cannot measure when it comes down to their apps or the user's are coming out to delight their users, how to improve things. And it just didn't make sense to me. Also, what I saw is that all the whole advertising and marketing was kind of a complete wide west with so many companies and logos. I didn't understand which companies are serving which interest. And we thought that there must be a company and software that focusing on representing the buyers in this ecosystem. So in the ecosystem of buyers and sellers, buyers want to pay less and get more and sell us one get more and do less. This is an inch of conflict of interest in the business. And we couldn't find a company or technology that represent the buyers in the ecosystem. So there have been always playing in both hands and stuff like that. So we thought, okay, so we probably can build something great. If we're going to focus on app developers, we're going to focus on the buyers in the ecosystem and build the best software to allow them to win this game and business in the long haul. So I think that without knowing much, because I didn't come from marketing or advertising, without knowing much, just in the logical way that they've been thinking about the business on the ecosystem, okay, focus on that, focus on the buyers and be fanatic about it. Because, you know, there are so many things that tell you, hey, you can do this and make more money and you can go here and make more money here. And I think there's so many things that distract you from the focus on, okay, what is the mission? Our mission is to focus on the ecosystem. Focus on the app developers focus on marketers and build the best software to allow them to overcome today's and tomorrow's challenges. And I think that for us, it went a very, very long way because it's a very long way, kind of thinking. Cool. That's awesome. Well, you know, since 2011, app developers raised six rounds of funding, which is more than $300 million since inception, including a very recent announced round led by Salesforce. How does raising money differ in the early rounds versus later rounds? Yeah. So, first of all, I think it's five, but who counts? Three hundred million. That's a lot of check-ups. Actually, now it's less check-ups. Much less check-ups. Anyways, first of all, it's very, very, very different. At the beginning, we didn't know what we were doing in terms of fun racing because, you know, first company, we didn't raise money before and stuff like that. In the beginning, we were kind of a survival mode and no one wanted to give us money. So, we've been talking with so many investors and angel investors and it was tiring because getting, you know, it was a good answer and the good case. And in most cases, they just disappear, which is kind of very fast-raining. So, we said ourselves, you know what? Let's focus on the customers. Let's build great software because no matter how you look at it, in the end, our potential investors will pick up the phone and call it. So, let's make sure that they are provided with amazing software, amazing user experience so they can sell that to future investors. So, it took us a year and a half, working with no funding. That was a fun story that we can talk about. I don't know. Next next episode. Yeah. We were lucky. What can I tell you? Because we took money from anyone that told us, okay, I'll give you money. And we were lucky to find really good investors. Investors at the beginning, that was the seed round, me 2012. And then obviously as we grew, we had much more options to select from. And then we learned how much, how important it is to kind of bring the right investors to the company. And we talked about decision making. I differentiate the irreversible decision making and reversible decision making. Reversible is very easy to undo. Obviously, it's not easy to undo with best or if you made the wrong call. So, this is by far one of the most important things that any company can do, adding investors to the cap tables specifically for both, but both members, but not only even small investors are very meaningful. And it was very, very important for us that we share the same values, the same beliefs that we have the same dream for this company. Because if my dream is one, mine, my company dream is one and the new investor dream is something else. There is misalignment here in the long term. So, maybe it will go out one year or two years. So, we need to be aligned. I really like to be dating, to get to know people in the end of day. This is everything I do. This company is everything I do. And I really want to do that with really good people. So, I'm getting married a couple of times. So, it's awesome because I'm meeting really great people and then, okay, let's do this crazy stuff together. And it's amazing. So, obviously, the challenges are very different, putting everything together and the deal-making. So, I like the deal-making. I like to do it once in a very long while. So, the Salesforce was an extension for the previous round. So, it was very light on me and management and everybody else. You guys just announced the Salesforce extension of the last round. And with that, you mentioned publicly that you've now exceeded 200 million US in annual run rate, which is truly phenomenal. You've got over 1,000 employees now. So, obviously, the company has grown quite a bit from those early days when you guys were just trying to figure out what it is that you wanted to build. Curious like, was there a moment where you realized, hey, we are on to something? And what was that transition like? A lot of the founders listened to this show earlier in their journeys and are looking for that feedback to know, yeah, we're on to something. We got to keep going in this direction. What was that like for you? So, first of all, I think that a lot of moments like that, and you need to have this kind of validation. So, in the early days, I remember that we started to work with a first-real customer. So, at the beginning, it was friends and family, hey, please use this API, please use this. And then, first-real customer, really excited. We gave them the attribution link, which is the measurement link. They've been working on user acquisition campaign in the UK. It was a right-sharing app because it was very local. So, you have that service in the UK. And the plenty of impressions and clicks, everybody, it'd been excited. And we looked at the data, there was no installs. No one installed the app. And obviously, the ad network was really pissed off because they should have been paid a lot for all these gazillions of clicks and impressions. And then we pissed off, oh, what is this app-flyer? It doesn't work because no one knew us, right? It doesn't work. We don't want that. And I asked, "Desh, if my CEO, hey, maybe you can take a look, maybe there is a bug, right? It's software in the end of the day." And we discussed
that traffic been coming from all around the world, from Indonesia, for measure. It was an iOS UK campaign, and we could find clicks and traffic coming from Android devices. So guess what? I mean, if you are buying impressions, you're going to get impressions. And if you are buying clicks, you are going to get clicks. No matter what. But once you start measuring, what's the result of that? You're getting something that is completely different, because this is not what the company has been buying. The company has been buying value. The company has been buying app installs for the right audience, and they didn't get that. And that was very, very late. So we understood that the magnitude of what we actually building here is 1,000x more than what we've been thinking at the beginning. And it wasn't photo-length activities. So there's a lot of fraud now. So there's how the industry used to work. And the second thing is, I think that it was -- we hit like a really good market fit, product-packed fit. We had a lot of leads. And I remember one day I told everybody, "Look, let's throw away 50% of the leads that we're getting every day, because we just cannot handle that. And we want to make sure that we're getting giving really good service to our customers." And I told them, "Look, if you need to search Google Search for the company name, you probably can throw that away and focus on companies that you don't need to Google Search for." So just focusing on the right customers. But this is for the very early days. And I think that a lot of aha moments along the way to allow you kind of really, I think, when growing your dreams and how you think about what you can actually build. That's really cool to hear that you -- you were willing to throw away half the leads and focus on ones that you thought were good fits because you wanted to really focus on the customer. I think that's a lesson to be learned from your early days. Yeah, great. It's focusing on the customer, but focusing on us. Because if we work with the right customers that can take us forward, that we can learn from, that we can solve their problems. And by solving their problems, next year we can solve half of the words problem. These are the customers that you want to work with. You probably grow slower in the early days doing that, but you put yourself in a position to really grow faster later if you can serve the needs of the customers that you think really help push the company forward. That's cool. Yeah, it's very tricky. Because if you select an enterprise that could be kind of overhead, it can give the company. So you need to have kind of a mix of small and larger, agile customers. Now it's a different word, by the way. So I think that everything, yeah, now it's a different word than when we started. That's cool. So definitely an interesting culture with the customers. I want to talk about culture within the employees and the company itself. And you know, it's an important part of what makes apps such a great company to work for. In addition, I believe you're one of the few CEOs on Glassdoor with 99% approval rate from his employees, which is amazing. Congrats. How would you describe the apps for our culture and how have you maintained it over the years across 18 offices globally? I hope I didn't get that number wrong. You did because we just announced that. Okay. That's cool. Actually, yeah. So first of all, thank you very much. I wasn't aware of that. And that's great, obviously. I think that the most important thing for every company in the long-haul is the culture. It's setting the right culture. And that's really, really complex. And I think that if there is one thing for me is to allow people to bid themselves. We have people from tens and tens of nationalities in different countries and backgrounds. And we really like diversity and inclusion in the company. And I personally really want that everybody will feel comfortable about themselves, comfortable about their innovations, comfortable to make mistakes. And in the end, the most important thing that you will feel comfortable to be yourself, because if you are not comfortable being yourself, you come to work and you spend most of your life working. But I think that this is kind of the highway just to feel and be yourself is the highway to a great career, personal, professional development. And the question is how do you achieve that? So as a CEO, first of all, I need to be myself. Because if I'm not going to be myself, no one else going to be themselves. So I try to be very authentic, very honest about everything. I try to show people that in the end of the day, everybody are just normal people, including CEOs, including board members. So every opportunity that they have to bring the board, meaning I use the board members to just say hi and bring everybody to all hands and stuff like that. And just have a casual discussion with board members. I think that this is kind of what was missing for me as an employee. I, you know, there is a saying that CEOs feel lonely and all that. I totally get that. But I really don't feel lonely in what I do, because I allow myself to be vulnerable. I allow myself to make mistakes. I allow myself to learn from people. I've been interviewing every single employee in the company until we were 500 people. That's a lot of interviewing. A ton. It's incredible. And so people ask me, "How come you do it?" And there's so much value. And that was, this is kind of my recommendation to everybody to do. I learned so much just by listening to people's stories. Because if you think about my background, it's very limited. I've been working here and here, grew up here, visited here, spending time here. That's it. A ton of a sudden it can open my mind to a whole new experience of new people that with a different background. And been working with it for different companies. And I can learn. So, and it's not to mention about tender relationship, because you see people in the office back then when we were in offices. So I don't see strangers. So they feel comfortable talking with me and stuff like that. Let's check my CTO, my co-founder telling me, "Hey, Orange, you really want to be productive? Just take a coffee in the cafeteria." So the way we design the cafeteria and the office spaces are. It's kind of to enable this kind of casual interaction. So we have breakfasts and lunch and dinners and a bunch of other things just to make sure that people are kind of interacting across teams, across departments, people from engineering and finance go sitting for breakfast. You can learn so much about people, about in the personal level and the company, because in the end of the day, we're trying to serve the same customers. All of us, together, as one team. I also encourage the team to think like a founder. And so, upsliders is my first company. And by the way, I actually, the first time that I'm managing other people. But all the companies that have been working for in the past, I've been thinking like a founder. It was important for me to understand the mission. It was important for me to understand what that company is trying to achieve. And how my action is actually taking the company further into that further into the mission. So I encourage everybody to kind of think the same. I think that this is kind of the highway to personal and professional growth. I enabled that. This is everything that is behind our alien culture. And I think that it really goes a very long way. So in the end of the day, I want to enable the 1000 people to make the right decisions as if there were the founders. And I give them very, very easy to remember tools. And I'll specify. I think it works for every company. So for every decision that you make, you need to ask ourselves, if this is a good thing for our customers, that's the first one. Second one. Does it make you more proud to be a part of ops flyer? You must have both questions answered with a yes. And that's a valid decision to select from. Not necessarily that we have to do. But only decisions and actions that will be both yes, these are the decisions that you make. And I think that it allowed people to kind of make their own decisions for the benefit of the company and our customers and for themselves. And by the way, people are different. So when you ask them, what makes you proud for one person? It can be one thing and for the other person, it can be another thing. Now, this diversity of opinions and cultures and backgrounds is what makes the company more important.
this company culture so unique because in the end of the day, we allow people to be themselves. We're not telling them how they should feel about different things, but these are the basic things. So we have the mission, we have the simple framework, and then we have a bunch of toolbox that you can pick off the right tool for you. You don't need to remember all of them. It's a toolbox. That is really awesome. I'm getting from that. So be yourself and us CEO, as chief enablement officer are really helping with this. So each employee can really be themselves and encourage to be themselves, encourage to think like a founder, which for you, you know, is part of this all-in culture. And when when people are making decisions, if they want to think be like a founder, they have to think, hey, is this decision like what is the best thing for my customer? And is this going to make, you know, me more proud of the company I'm working for, AppSlayer? Those are really like great, high-level tenants. And I can see why you've been able to continue to scale so effectively. But I'm curious for you at CEO, how has your job changed, you know, from the early days to where you are today? Like have you noticed that you've had to adjust or the things you have to focus on are different? First of all, very different. And I think that first of all, people need to understand that they need to have a new version of themselves every day and every year. So I'm a different person than I started this year. And I'm a very different person when I started the company. And we all need to understand because people think themselves about, but as a constant, but we are not constant. If you want it or not, we all have been babies, grueling, walking, yeah, we've done it before. I believe it or not. So I think that the one thing that is most important is learning, adapting and growing and changing and the acceptance that, hey, I'm going to change this and that. I think that, well, this is a big question. I think that we can have another podcast for that. But I think that when we grew from 20 to 100, it's very visible. You know, you have with 20, 30, 40 people, you have personal relationships with each and every employee. And then it's one too many, but you still need to be personal. And then when you grow, when I grow and managers are growing, so there is kind of a reset framework that I'm telling them. Imagine that you're living the company. You're no longer in the company and you're joining again tomorrow. You have a job description. You left the company. So I'm talking about management. I'm talking about myself. I left the company. Now we are working on a job description and placement too. What are we looking for? What are the qualities? What's the need to do? Now, get back to reality because this is you. That's a really cool framework to use. So simple because this is what you do. But when everything grows so quickly, it's very easy to forget that you need to be a different person in every stage and a different professional in every stage. Once you forget that, it's the matter of time that you're not going to be able to do your job. Very cool. You've also talked about the importance of focusing on the customer. That was if you were going to think like a founder, that's question number one. What's best for the customer? How have you built that customer obsession into the company? Yeah. I think that the same way as I was born and engineered, this company was born as a customer obsessed company. I think that well, when we started the company, we didn't know anything about marketing or advertising or apps or anything else. We learned. We learned from who? From customers. So when I was talking with customers, whether it's sales or support or customer success, all of them in the beginning, all the emails were directed to my inbox. So my job was to build the relationship with the customer. And that will allow me to go back and build a great software to solve their current challenges and future challenges. So when I didn't start doing it, but when we scale and hire more people, it was really important for us to put really good people in the edges. Like CSM, support engineers, so we didn't have like a tier one that okay, reset your computer. We don't have this kind of stuff. We have people that knows the product in and out, that knows the market that can that that can act as a CEO when we were in the early days. So they can bring back the feedback of what the challenges of the customers are right now and what should we do in order to improve that. So yes, it's about the customer, but in the end of the day, this is the only thing or the must have component for us to be successful in the long haul. We will not going to be successful once we forget that. That's very cool. You once said revenue is secondary when thinking about the big picture of growth. Could you elaborate on that? Yes, I think that you have to make it very clear to the entire company, employees, board, investors, that revenue is secondary and your mission because revenue is so many things that can distract you. I mean, the current, the 200 is already set. It's set because all the work that we've been doing so far has zero impact on what's going to happen next water, zero, zero. So revenue is probably the late, very late indicator of what you've been doing so far. So we need to focus on early indicators. For example, focusing on culture. Focusing on culture is the longest yield of our investment. So you invest today and maybe you're going to get something in a couple of years. But once that when it works, exponentially there. So I think and I thought that to make it very clear to the board and the entire company that revenue is secondary. And if we focus on the early indicator, on the culture and the customers and focus on representing their interests in the market and not being kind of distracted by, hey, you can do this, you can do this, you can double the revenue here, you can do other stuff. Yes, it will grow the revenue in the short term. I can tell you that. We can probably make much more revenue next year if we decide that. But guess what? There will be an impact and a price in the long term. And I think that many companies forget the long term because whatever reasons. And I don't want to forget that. So guess what? Revenue is secondary for us today. And revenue is secondary for us in the next five years also. But this is what will maximize value to customers in the long hold five years, 10 years. And also will maximize revenue when, not today, not next year, not in the next two years, in the next five years. So what guides me is the minimum time frame of five years. This is how I make decisions. This is my job. That is really cool. I can say we were up to close to 50 episodes on Founder Real Talk. And this is the first time I'm hearing a founder talk about five year plus time cycles and the exponential value you get from investing early in things like culture and customer obsession. That is really cool. I can tell it goes even further. I don't know how much time we have. But we have invariant frameworks. So the things that we've been thinking about, the things that never going to change, the things that going to be valid in five or 10 years from today, we identified security and privacy. It's one of them. We have only four, not 24. One of them is security and privacy. So in the last five years, we've been investing in security and privacy. So when security is becoming a thing, okay, so yeah, we knew that early on. When there are changes in privacy, yeah, we've been investing in privacy for the last couple of years. And this is a very long term investment because the payback is coming after how much? Many years, many, many years. And it's a big investment. And by the way, this investment does not yield the turn. We didn't see return for our major investment in privacy and security. No, only now we're starting to see the return. Couple of years after. And I can tell you that investing in these areas is not the switch of a button. It's very long term investments. That's awesome. It's a former chief security officer. I can tell you that I have not met too many CEOs who are passionate about security or thinking about security as a long term investment. So I think this is absolutely amazing. And I'm sure your security team is absolutely thrilled about that. Yeah, let's have a chat about it. Yeah. So, Orren, we're at that time in the episode where we're going to put you on the hot seat and ask you a couple of speed round questions. So just say the first thing that comes to mind. Tell us about a book or article or something you like to read that you recommend to other founders. Without no doubt delivering happiness by Tony Cheyent, I think the unfortunate, the pressing piece, I think that the major influence on me and the way I've been thinking,
And it's also great loss to the word that none of us is an amazing inspiration. And for people that read the book, I recommend to reread the book. And people that didn't read the book and I met a couple of them, that didn't read the book. I'm working in Upslire. I don't know. This is a great opportunity to go ahead and read that book. That's a great one. Thanks. Peace of advice you wish you had received before founding Upslire. She more purified. No one for small dreams. So people ask me if we've been dreaming about this and no way. And then I ask myself maybe our dream was too small. And then I realized that the dream isn't the magnitude of your present. And the question is how do you grow the present so you can dream bigger. But then still you ask yourself and ask yourself whether the dream was big enough when we started company. And my answer is yes, but eventually you need to take the first step in building is enhancing your own reality so you can dream bigger. I can tell you that it works. It works. And I feel it on myself. All right, speaking of dreaming bigger, let's say the genie comes out of the bottle and says congratulations, Orrin. I'm giving you one extra hour every day. Your days are 25 hours long. What do you do with that extra hour? I think that what you just gave me is the ability to do everything I want better than anyone else. Because everything is a matter of time and what you do with the time. So I always had kind of thinking, OK, if we manage to kind of tell the word, OK, just stand still. We have some stuff to build for you and great software to build. It could be amazing. And actually I thought that COVID 19 actually this is we see that the COVID 19 is kind of sort of something like that. So when we did a lot to just move it faster during COVID 19. So so I think that technically this is kind of the premium dollar genie. If we could have 25 hours a day, would probably be investing that in learning and thinking in brainstorming with people with myself. I think that for people, I don't know CEO's management, I think that they don't invest sometimes. Well, you know what I'll talk about myself. I think that sometimes I don't invest enough in myself and my own learning. And I think that they need to walk walk the walk the talk here. So. Orrin, we're coming up on the last question, which is without a doubt the most important one. Best Chihuahua or falafel spot. You know, as an orrin, I will talk about humus and not the orrin humus. I will talk about homo side in the old city of Aco. So this is the original humus that they make a pile in the morning and they can finish that in 11 a.m. So you need to come early, which is kind of crazy to it so much humus and early day in the early hour of the day. But it's an amazing place. It's in the old city. You have a pitabacary just next to it. The experience is the most authentic experience that you can have. So if you're visiting there after COVID-19, if you visit Aco and the northern part of the country, go to a homo side and tell them all and send. Okay. Well, I could tell you, Orrin, that my orrin, we've been to Israel together many times. And now I'm very disappointed that he hasn't yet taken me to. But I think we would like to extend an invite to you that next time we're in Israel post COVID-19, it would be great to get together. And maybe we'll find a way to get some great homus and enjoy some more hearing from you, some incredible wisdom. Thank you so much for your time. This has been an incredible episode. I know our listeners are going to find it invaluable. Congrats to you and your team on all the success you've had at AppsFlyer. But now we know that 200 million is just the beginning. And there's there's that you're not focused on revenue. You're focused on achieving much bigger goals. Revenue will follow and it sounds like AppsFlyer is going to be a company to watch for many, many years. So we look forward to that. Thank you again for sharing your wisdom with us. Thank you, Glenn. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, Lauren. This is awesome. Thanks. You've been listening to Founder Real Talk. If you like what you heard, please rate and review us on the Apple Podcast app to help others find this podcast. If you have any questions you'd like us to ask our guests or founders you'd like to hear on this podcast, feel free to email us at
[email protected]. Our theme song is by grapes. GGV Capital is a global venture capital firm that invests in local founders. As multi-stage sector focused firm, GGV focuses on seed to growth across consumer, social and internet, enterprise cloud and frontier tech. The firm was founded in 2000 and manages 6.2 billion in capital across 13 funds. Past and present portfolio companies include the likes of a firm, Airbnb, Ali Baba, Dede, Grab, Hello Bike, Ashi Corp, House, Keep, Namely, New, Open Door, Peloton, Poshmark, Slack, Square, Wish and many more. The firm has offices in Beijing, San Francisco, Shanghai and Silicon Valley. Learn more at ggvc.com or follow us on Twitter @ggvcapital or ggvcapital on WeChat.
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