Oprah Winfrey on Knowing Your Worth

I'm sitting down with Oprah Winfrey. Yes, Oprah, as I know her, orpa. The Emmy-winning host, producer, actor, author, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and media icon who changed daytime television, built her own network, created one of the most influential book clubs ever, and made millions of people feel like their story mattered. I was 12 years old when I first sat with Oprah on her show. So this is moment is full circle in ways I am still processing. She's helped generations ask bigger questions about who they are and what they came here to do. But my question is, when you've been Oprah for this long, what still surprises you about yourself? Or about life? We're getting into joy, love, purpose, friendship, and what happens when the woman who gave everybody else a ha moment is still having a few of her own. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. [MUSIC PLAYING] No matter what we do within the college, chilling, couple, Amazon music, sit back and listen. Life loves sex, science, hovering at all, especially the back of money that we can borrow. No matter what it is, we can make it make sense. It's nothing else to do but kick it with the homies it can. So grab you a drink and a snack you would enjoy. You get into the vibe that only wants it. You know it's your greatest. This is Kiki. Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Seventh Generation. I know I'm extra. They know I'm extra. We've made peace with it. But my cleaning products don't get to be extra. They get to work. Seventh generation keeps it simple, so I don't have to pretend otherwise. Let's get into today's show. And baby, this is Oprah Winfrey. Come on out. Ha ha ha ha ha. Oh my gosh. I don't know you worried like, wait a minute. If outfit is everything. No, yours is everything. It's time. I should have worked like a wedding on one. It looks so good. Why would you give me up on my show like this? This is crazy. Now what I have to ask, should I call you Miss Winfrey Oprah? Can I call you Oprah? Everybody calls me Oprah. You can also call me Ohm. Yes, OK. Oh, I'm so happy to be with you. I'm so happy to be with you. Oh my gosh. It's always good time to see you. And now this time I get to actually talk with you. I know. We've been at many things where we're like listening to other people. Yes. All of those summits and conferences and things. Yeah, conferences and things. I mean, the conference era. I know. You know, I'm at the right one. I'm Oprah's there. Now, wait a minute. Sitting right next to you. I found out that your name was originally Orpa? It was Orpa from the Bible. Ruth, first chapter 14th verse. First-- I do know. You know, it's that whole Ruth and Naomi story. And you know, Ruth said, wherever that goes, I will go and then-- Orpa said, I'm going back. I'm sorry. I can't. Too long. No, that's too long. Now what made you go to Oprah? It is not what made me. I was a kid. And nobody knew how to spell it. So it turned out on my birth certificate, it's Orpa. And then people started calling me Oprah. And so it's just a difference between the P being before the R or after the R. Yes. So once they started with Oprah, that's it. I didn't learn until I was like probably 20 or something that, oh, this isn't really my name. It is still on your birth certificate as Orpa? As Orpa. Wow. We have so much in common because I'm actually Eki. Eki. I thought you were Lauren, Tiana. That's too fit. OK. Yes, I am. You know my-- You know my name, Lauren. That's your real name. That is-- I'm so happy that you knew that. Yes. That is very cool. You know how I know that? Because I watched your tattoo. Well, I have a lot to ask you about that tattoo. OK. Because I feel like there's so much-- I've never done one. Insight that you have to give me. Really? No, I've never done one. Tell me what it's like. If you did one, do you think-- Do you know what you want to talk about? Oh, I don't-- You know, the reason I've never done one, I don't know how I can get it all in like, isn't that 14 minutes? You were just like 12 minutes and something. Yes, 12 minutes. I don't know how-- I mean, they put you with great coaches. Yes. So she was with me along the process. I didn't know how I was going to arrive at where I arrived. But through the conversations, I started writing. And then I had to scrap a couple of them. I had maybe like two or three speeches before I got to that one. Really? Yeah. And are you just talking? It sounds like it's just coming out of your head. You're talking reading from a prompter. You're not-- Wow. That was beautifully done. Some people do go up there. Thank you so much. Beautifully done. Beautifully done. Thank you. Some people do go up there with paper, but they really prefer you to know the whole bit. Really? Yeah, they do. Yeah. Oh, well, I do know the whole bit. But I just-- I don't know how to do it in 14 minutes. But I could. I guess I could. Yes, without a doubt. Well, you know, I always do a pre-show pull up with my guests. But I made yours especially for you, of course, because-- OK, let's see what it is. OK, favorite thing you're obsessed with right now. Favorite thing I'm obsessed with right now is actually doing my podcast. I love it because it's just like this. It's so intimate. You know, I've done the talking thing forever and ever. But I love the intimacy of being one on one and having a conversation with people that you really are motivated to talk to. Because just like you, it's so fun. You talk to who you want to talk to. And it is not a time limit. I think often with daytime talk, it's like five minutes and it cannot say much in that quick time. I mean, and the thing that I was always so terrible at is cutting to commercial break. I was always, always, always over. Yeah. And so hard to interrupt somebody, especially if you're doing something really serious. You know, excuse me, I'm going to take a commercial break. So that was always, I was always challenging. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Favorite place in the world? Italy. Really? Any place in Italy. Tell me about it. I've never, have I been in Italy? I've been in Italy once. I don't think I've done enough traveling. So what makes Italy so special? The food. The people. Yeah. The food and the people and the sense of family, camaraderie, community. I like the idea of like walking down a cobblestone little street and going to get your bread at the end of the-- Come on, let me-- When you said I love bread, that's the love. I love bread. I still love bread. And I still love bread. That is so good. So that's one of my favorite places in the world to be. But I will actually tell you this. I have created such a beautiful, blessed life for myself that it's hard to get me to leave the front gate. I mean, really. Many times-- That means the home is a sanctuary. My home is a sanctuary. Oh my gosh. And every time I look out in my backyard, I say I understand what glint of the good witchment when she said, look no further than your own backyard. Yes. Now that is really something special. It is very special. Oh my gosh, I love that so much. Please invite me some time. Well, you won't need to come up over there. And we'll love my backyard. Yes, yes. OK, favorite guest who surprised you. Now this could be somebody that's on your current podcast. Or it could be somebody from the past or someone who won a vote. OK, favorite guest who surprised me recently was a guy named Alan Levi, who's written this book called Theo of Golden. Lots of people have reading it. I know you've read it. And here's the thing. That guy who wrote the book, Alan Levi, is the really Theo of Golden. So Theo of Golden is this guy who comes into a town. He goes to a coffee shop. He sees all these pictures on the wall that have been drawn by a local artist. And then he decides to take each picture, buy it, and then meet with each person. And the whole idea is that everybody has a special life story and that to be able to look at people's lives. So this guy who came on my show, Alan Levi, best guest I've ever had. And I've had some guests. I've literally talked over 3,500 people, one on one. OK? Wow. OK. And that's why when I'm talking to my girls, all these girls I mentor from South Africa, I go, you ought to listen to me because I have to have had 35 hundred conversation. So anyway, Alan Levi, when he was done, when he introduced himself to every crew member, not just introduced himself to every crew member, but wanted to hear every crew member's story, which you know takes up a lot of time. And every single guest that we had that was asking him a question, he had a question for them. So his interest in other people, I love it when people show kindness, real, real goodness toward other people. That's number one favorite surprise guest, OK? The other was, honey. I think it was 90s or something, 1990s something. There was a show called the Mary Tyler Moore show. Oh my gosh, come on. You're gonna make it happen, girl. Yes. Yeah. And throwing up the hat. So good. I had done that whole little skit where I went out and I put on that hat and the clothes and the honey, and the Mary and thrown it up thing. And so we were doing this show on Mary Memories, on all of us who love Mary. And I'm talking about Mary Tyler Moore and Out Walk's Mary Tyler Moore. I think I've seen Out Walk's Mary Tyler Moore too much. Too much. And you know what? I lost it. Yes. I lost it. I lost it. I lost everything. I went into the headache ugly cry. Yes. You know, you ugly cry and then you ugly cry so much. Now you have a headache and now your nose is running and the whole thing. And I said to my producers after that, that's it. I can never be surprised again. Oh my gosh. Never. And not until the last show, which you know, we did from the United Center where there are all these surprises, including Beyonce, that they were like, please, please, please, we just need to be able to surprise you. Because I lost such control during that show. I like when the piano myself, I was like, - No, it was running. All the things. - Oh, but that's hilarious. - With Mary Tyler Moore. And I was like, do you understand what this means to me? And she was like, I kinda do, I think I do. So I, you know why? - She said, I think I do. - I think it, because when I was growing, when I was first started in news, Mary was it. There was no dating on Saturday night. I would watch the Mary Tyler Moore show, wash my hair, roller set, under the dryer, with the blow, with the whole thing, with the rollers, and then followed by the Bob New Horde show. - Oh my God. - So that was my routine, Mary. So getting surprised by Mary. - Yeah, that is, that's, it's something so special about people being in their home with you. - Yes. - You know, I'm sure you know it, obviously, personally, 'cause people have that same, we all have that same affinity for you, so. - But, no, listen to this. This is also, you never know who you've inspired. Actually, I run into people all the time to say, you inspired me. I ran into a girl in the bathroom yesterday who said, I'm a journalist because of you. And I went, that makes me so proud. But I, part of the reason I am who I am is because I was watching the Mary Tyler Moore show. And at the end of the Mary Tyler Moore show, remember this, there's a little M-T-M, and a little cat that comes out, and goes, meow. And it was her own production company, M-T-M. It's the first time that I realized, oh, you could own yourself. You could own your product. You could own what you're putting out into the world. And M-T-M is what gave me the vision to believe that could happen. And I remember when I started in Chicago, and I said to one of the suits, I said, one of the things I won is to one day become a mogul. And the next day, he was like, how dare you use that language? How dare you say that? Yes, that's what he said to me in 1983. How dare you use it? Yes, yes, yes, yes. I wanted to be, a mogul, I'm here to-- Why do you think that he said that? Why do you-- He said it was so arrogant, and it was so-- Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was like so full of myself to think that I could become a mogul. I'm greatest fear is not that we're inadequate. I'm greatest fear is that we're powerful beyond measure. Okay, come on, Mary Ann. William sent quote to me. That was so good. Quote to me, quote to me. When I saw you had your own frozen food product-- Yes. When I saw you had your own network, it was that same thing. I said, this is next level. Well, what Opal Winfrey is that? Let me just tell you, owning that show was the transition into me owning myself in so many ways. And that came about because I had nothing I wanted more in this world than being in the color purple. Yeah. And when I went away to do the color purple, my boss is at the time said, you only have two weeks vacation and I needed two months. And I ended up giving all of my vacation for the entire contract. If you will just let me finish this movie, I said, this is 1985. If you just let me finish this movie, I'll give up all of my vacation, all of my vacation. And then when it came time to renew that contract, my lawyer said, you never want to be in a position where you have to give up everything in order to sacrifice to do what you really want to do. What if you owned part of the show? This was Jeff Jacobs who said this to me. Shout out to Jeff Jacobs. Shout out to Jeff Jacobs who said, what if you owned yourself? It means you'd have to take the risk yourself that maybe it wouldn't do as well, but you don't have to take a salary, you would get whatever the show was going to make. This was like advertising. This is when we went syndicating. Yeah, when we were syndicating. And I said, sure, 'cause I believed in myself. And that is the reason why I am where I am, because I believed that ownership was the way for me. And you know what, at the time, local stations couldn't even syndicate you. So nobody believed that the Oprah show was going to be as big as it was. And the reason why I got the greatest percentage, the percentage that I did, is 'cause none of those guys thought it was going to be that successful. If they thought it was that successful, they would have never given me 50%. Did you feel that sacrifice in the immediate meaning when you took, oh, so it felt all the same. It felt all the same to me. It felt like I knew that the show would be successful because it was successful in Chicago. And Chicago was, I thought-- - The mecca. - Yes, it represented the country. - For sure. - It wasn't like it was New York, East Coast thinking, or West Coast thinking, I thought, this is America. And if Chicago loves it, Rhode Island will love it. Memphis will love it. Arkansas is going to love it. - Come on, Arkansas. - Nashville is going to love it too. Everybody's going to love it, 'cause Chicago loves it. And I could watch the faces of those women every day. And I realized that what we're saying, what we're doing here is connecting to them in a way. What they're feeling is what I'm feeling, what they're feeling is what everybody else is feeling. And so I never believe that it would not work. - Oh, I can't wait to get into more of that with you, 'cause I mean, it's so incredible what you've been able to do. Favorite guilty pleasure. - Oh, my favorite guilty pleasure. - A guilty pleasure. - Is doing absolutely nothing. I mean-- - Okay. - When the day has gone and I say, what have I accomplished? Not one damn thing. That's my favorite guilty pleasure. - Shout out to Potato. - Yeah. - It's epic. - What have I done? But no, the perfect day for me, people would be so shocked, because my friend Gail is, I realize the older we get, I'm saying, I don't know how we've remained friends for 50 years, 'cause we're so opposite. She is right now on her way to the Obama event and she did something last night and did something the night before. - She do be outside. - She do be outside. - I'm not in about girl. I'm not asking her out of like, "Gail." - Oh my gosh. And I am, and she'll call me sometimes and say, what are you doing, sitting with your thoughts? And I go, exactly. That's exactly what I'm doing with my thoughts. So my perfect day is it's raining, there's some fog. You can hear the rain on the roof, because I grew up in Mississippi with a 10 roof. So you could hear the rain falling on the roof, I mean, you know, sounded like a thunderstorm every time it sprinkles. And so the feeling of rain on the roof is a comforting thing to me. And so having a fireplace, having a dog, and reading a book, and having another book after that to read. So you have like a little stack. That's my favorite. But I know that that's not fun for most people, okay? - That's lovely to me. - But it's not fun for most people. And Gail's like, "Good." (Gail laughs) - Yeah. - Everybody goes, "Okay, favorite thing money can't buy." - Oh my gosh, I would have to say, for me, it's the peace of mind and satisfaction that has come from living a life well lived. It's the peace of mind and satisfaction. You know, when I first started out, it was hard. I know you've had this too. Every relative comes out of the closet. You got cousins you didn't know and you got everybody wanting and demanding of your time and your money. And I didn't know how to say no. I didn't know how to manage all of that in the beginning. And I had really strong mentors. I had the best. I had Maya Angelou. I had Sydney Poitier. I had Quincy Jones. - Oh my gosh. - I had Coretta Scott King. Those were my mentors. So when something would go wrong, I would call one or the other of those people and say, "Maya and Sydney more so than anybody else." But I would have to say, - Oh, prime. - Yeah. - What did you mean? - Yeah. (laughing) - Yeah, as well. - Being on the phone with Maya Angelou sounds. - All the time, all the time. And I remember being on the time, the tabloids were just wrecking me all the time. I was on the tabloids every week for either being too fat. She ate too much. She ate a whole pie. She done, you know, just making up lies about me all the time. Or is she getting married? Why he won't marry her? Now they split up. Now that I'm so, there were two stories. There were the, will she get married? Will she not get married? Why hasn't she gotten married and overweight? That they were for 20 freaking years. Yeah, warm me out with it. And many times I would get upset about it and I would call Maya and Maya. I would say, I remember being in the bathroom, I can't even remember what it was, but toilet seat down. Sitting in the toilet in the bathroom, calling Maya. And I was crying and she was like, stop it. Stop it now. And I was like, but you know what I was saying? What I'm saying is just stop it. Stop it now. That was her favorite phrase. And I'd say, well, why is she, she said, I want you to say thank you. In the middle of me crying, she said thank you because whatever it is you're going through, I don't even want to know what it is right now. I want you to know God has already put a rainbow in the cloud for you. The rainbow is coming. So the cloud that you're in right now, you just got a way to get to the other side where the rainbow is and say thank you because I know the rainbow is coming. And so that has helped me through many a thing when you're in the middle of the crisis, you just say, all right, I know there's another side to it. So I mean, I had some of the best teachers. I had just fantastic teachers. So my favorite thing is, you know, I get a lot of love from the world and I get a lot of craziness from the world. Yeah, I mean, the online thing is crazy. Well, I mean, you had so, when you were bringing up the tabloid stuff, it was making me think about online because now that's the new tabloid. That's the same kind of thing. It's a new thing. But you can say anything. So everybody has the power to say anything about you. And the thing that's always been the hardest for me is people saying things that were untrue. again. I mean, you know, the tabloids actually prepared me for all the untruths that I live with now online. But this is the thing, Maya used to say this to me and I say this to everybody who's listening and you have had some grace in your life. Maya used to say, "Baby, those people can't hold the candle to the light that God already has shining on your face. So look at the light that God has shining on your face and stop worrying about those people." Because those people who are sitting online saying things about me that are not true, those people who are saying, "She used to say this all the time with the tabloids, they don't even know you. They don't even know you. You're just a photograph and a story to them." - Yes. - She would say, "You have a star." - Yeah, they don't know your heart. They don't know anything about you. So those people who are dragging you, dragging on you, whatever, cannot hold the candle to the light God always already has shining on your face. And it reminds me of one of my favorite things to do now that I got two new knees starting in 2021. - I love that. - One of my favorite things to do is to hike. One of my favorite things to do is to hike. - Yes, new knees. - Yes, yes, new knees. And the reason why I love hiking is because it's such a great metaphor for life and the higher the mountain, the better the hike for me. And the reason is you don't look at how far you have to go. If you start out looking at how far you have to go, you will be forwarded. You will feel like, "How am I gonna get up there?" But every 10 minutes or so, every, every, like, a couple thousand steps, turn around and look at how far you've come. And you can't believe it before you know it, you're halfway there. And before you know it, you're three quarters away there. Before you know you look back and go, "I can't believe, I came all that way." And if you came all that way, you can get to the top. And the same thing is true for life. If you, wherever you are right now, and you're listening to us, you listen to Warren Keana and I speak. - This is so important what you're saying. - Yeah, if you just stop and look at how far you have already come, how you weren't even supposed to be where you are right now. Nobody, you didn't even think you could make it through some things. But you did. So take the time to stop and turn around and look. - Wow. - That's in my mind, that's gratitude, the practice of gratitude. - Oh yeah, well that is my spiritual practice. - Yes, and what are the things in the interim? You know, because I'm hearing you saying, there's always a mountain on the rainbow. But even if I'm talking to you right now and dealing with the own things that I have going on in my life or people that are listening, that is a very hard thing to always hold on to. Because you don't know when it's coming. - But it's coming. - But it's coming. Faith is knowing that it is coming. This is the thing that I wish I could, I should teach a class I really should. First of all, we are all ordering up our lives all the time and you are in co-creation with the main creator. - Yes, right. - And you are doing that by the way you think. So anything that is happening in your life right now that's going on in your life, if you look at, there's a wonderful line in a new earth by Eckhart Toley. - Girl. - Girl. - You the reason why I read that book. It almost made me have a brain as you were saying. But I held on. - Really? - It changed my life. - When you changed it. - What a relief it is to know that the voice inside my head is not me. - Yes. That's one of the main people. Who in hell is it right? - Yeah. - But then you're like, well, I'm the one observing it. - Yeah. That is a big thing. - It's you. - Oh, you're there. You're there. - Oh my God. - That's it. That's it. You put me on to that. I was telling you, when you get that, you have graduated. You have graduated. So the other important thing that he said that is so relevant to whatever situation you're going through is life will give you the exact experience you need for the elevation of your consciousness, which is why we're all here. Life is going to give you exactly what you need at any given time to grow you up. That's really what he's saying. The elevation in your consciousness is just. - Yes. - You're getting, becoming who you're supposed to be. So life is going to give you the exact experience you need. And how do you know that's experience you need? Because it's the experience you're having right now. So whatever is going on, you just look at it and you say, okay, what you trying to teach me? What is it I'm not getting? What is it I need to know? Why does this keep happening? Why does this keep showing up? Wearing a different pair of pants. Why do I always end up in this situation? You're supposed to truly ask that, not from a, why is this always happening to me? But really, what am I supposed to get that I'm not getting? And how do I grow from this moment? What is it here to teach me about myself? How do you then maintain an embodied experience in life as opposed to always coming from this meaning-making thing? Because that can be its own tyrant to you. You know what I mean? Where it's like, I find myself doing it all the time, where it's like everything's meaning, everything's a lesson. But then I'm detached from the experience of what's happening to me because I'm so quick to find the lesson in it. What is the real thing in it? Yeah. Well, this is a thing. Sometimes you're just having a good time, okay? Because one of the reasons why the Oprah show for 25 years was the number one show, in spite of all the competition and all of the shows that came after us. I never looked at what the other people were doing because I was very much on point with what I knew I needed to do. And one of the things that changed that show was another book called "Sea to the Soul" by Gary Zuckab that I read in 1989. And it shifted everything from me. Because in that book, he talks about intention that no matter what you're doing in life, that there is the law of cause and effect. Everybody's listening to us right now. You believe in the law of karma, which is the same as the law of cause and effect. But before there's a cause, there's an intention. And that intention is going to always determine the effect. And so I sat down with my producers and I said, I explained this principle and I said, we're not going to do just shows anymore. We're going to do shows with intention. And we're going to do shows in a way that you have to tell me at the top of the idea what the intention is. And they're like, what the hell? And I have to align with that intention. And if I'm not aligned with that intention, if I'm not right there, I have to find some truth in it in order to sit in this chair. Yeah. Right? So I can't just be up there talking, talking, talking about things. I don't want to that have no relevance or no grounding for myself. So I just have to find one thread that I can connect to so that I can say, OK, I believe in that. I can talk about that. And people can feel my truth. And that's what changed the show. That's why we were number one for 25 years because it was intentionally done. We talked about why do we want to do it? What do we want to get out of it? And for every interview, I did that. It's interesting when you're talking about this because I think about what we're, what journalism is now and what it was then. I think about Barbara Walters. I think about Diane Soar. I think about the Oprah Winfrey show. The relationship to making things comfortable and relaxed, but still pushing and having the ability to get people to speak to what is real. I feel like I don't say that sometimes it's loss, but the relationship that our current audience has to that kind of journalism seems to have changed. Yeah. I'm curious of what you think that is and if you think it should come back. Well, I think that people now are interested in a lot of surface things. I think, but ultimately, this is what I know in the soul of myself, is that people have not changed. Even though it looks like our value system and the culture has changed and the politics has changed. But people still, I think, want goodness in their lives and people want to be guided by a set of values and principles that open their heart to doing well in the world. and they want to be happy. This is what I learned from the Oprah Show. Is that everybody wants the same thing. You wanna know that you matter. And you wanna be able to offer that to other people. And so even though we live in this culture where everything is quick and fast in this, and tiki taki taki taki taki taki taki taki taki taki about everybody is you know doing a lot of surface things. People really do want meaning in their life. They long to matter and they long to know that whatever you're doing in life is giving you some purpose in the world. That's what I truly believe. - So many people have different experiences with you. So it went me from movies, obviously from Nobuw and Free Show. Sometimes it's clips and now obviously your podcast. But I'm curious what is for you the definition of living your best life now? What does it look like? - Well, it looks like freedom. It looks like being able to make the choices that are based on what do you really want, which I think is the most important question you know. I think when you're not free, not completely free, you can't make decisions based upon what you want. You have to do what you, this is what I say to my girls who you know, graduating from college and starting their first jobs and they're talking to me about you know, work like balance at this point. I go, you know, I know work like balance is 22. - That's Tareness up by the way. We're all trying to look for the balance thing there. - It's not there, it's not there. You're supposed to lay it in, lay in the work. And so I believe that for me, It's getting to this point in my life where my choices are based that come truly from You know the purest part of myself. I only do what I want to do and I've earned the right to do that because there was a lot of times I had to do what I had to do you have to do what you have to have to do what you need to do until you can do what you want to do You can't on that and everyone on these kids today a lot of people think all I just want to do what I want to do You got to work to be able to do what you want to do. Yeah How do you know when it's when it's over because what do you when you say free when it's over? How do you define it and when I'm saying when it's over is What ends up happening and I've talked about this in the TED talk is yeah, you you you you working so hard to get free And it's like you might be already there. Yeah, so how do you know what freedom is to you and when it's time to lay back Because I feel like that was really I mean my nervous system is like She's like My nervous system is screaming to me let me oh She don't know she know how to release them one two three release them. Okay. Have you been able to answer the question of what okay? So this is so interesting. Oh, we could talk all day about this girl You know that when I was doing the color purple I wrote in my journal. I've had a Gupta journal since me too. Yes, so and I wrote in my journal then My goal is to one of the things I really want is a beautiful home Surrounded by beautiful things Surrounded by a life of people who Respect me and I respect and hold in regard I That I wrote that in 1985 while I was sitting in the tree in color purple weight on on on my time to go to set and That has been fulfilled for me in Just like layers and layers and multitudes of ways But I've always been clear about what I really wanted and what was gonna give me peace Do you know the answer to that question? That's what you want to say to yourself and to everybody who's listening and watching what do you Really want and is what you want what you want or is what you want what you always thought you were supposed to want? Well, this brings me to the other thing that I want to do Okay, okay Is this what you always such one and one How do you know so this is the thing and I ask it specifically about love? I often am like I need me a statement now. I don't know nothing about you Insteadments actual relationship. Yeah, but what I'm curious of is What you found how much did it differ from what you thought you wanted? Oh, let me just tell you I paid a price to get there because I was a fool for many years. That is T-Boop I went through some man troubles in my 20s, okay? I Am by every definition a lot my outfits are a moment my reactions are I've been called dramatic in three different group chats this week alone and every single time I said Correct, that's just who I am and honestly, I've made peace with it But somewhere along the way I learned there's a difference between extra where it counts and extra where it's just showing off And my old cleaning products were absolutely showing off and doing more to cover up than to actually clean girls it down So I switched to seventh generation bio-based cleaning power that handles the job without the theatrics plus no dies artificial fragrances or bottles full of ingredients auditioning for a part they didn't get It just works and it doesn't need to announce itself while it's doing it seventh generation provides a powerful clean without anything extra So if you already bring the extra to the function make the switch today to seventh generation a powerful clean without anything extra We are at the peak right now. This is it July is the absolute top of summer the most committed most alive most everything month of the entire year The days are long the energy is high and everyone you love is finally available at the same time This is the month summer delivers on everything it promised back in January when you were called to not domestic Okay, okay, so My friends and I found this home on Airbnb in Turks and K-Cos perfect for our little couples get away Beachfront palm trees private secluded the kind of place where you look around and genuinely cannot see another soul and you think oh It's just us the whole world disappeared and all that was left was our little group on this beach like we had been dropped there by the universe specifically Somebody situation chip got on the grill and did not disappoint He was clearly prepared because he brought the sandals and everything and moments like that Moments where everyone gathers around food that somebody actually cooked outside with the ocean right there It was the kind of trip you stop trying to document because you're too busy enjoying it We found that stay on Airbnb and it's at the bar for every couple's trip I take for the rest of my life. This is what peak summer can feel like when the space is right Find a home on Airbnb this summer and meet the moment peak summer is not waiting for you to get ready There was a guy who whose bumper I was holding on to one point literally Literally holding onto the bumper of his car. No, that's in Z I love you that's in Z That's in Z he pulls off and I like fall my knees all in the gravel and the whole thing and all the apartments looking at you and you're like Oh, all right. Yeah, I know I've been there. I mean this is so so so And so so so that guy that guy had said to me Um the problem with you baby doll is that you think you you think you're special the problem with you baby doll is you think you're special And I'm like no, I'm not I don't think I'm special. No, I don't know And um he was leaving and had slammed the door and I ran after him and I'm holding onto the bumper of the dots and Z Yeah, I think I was 23 24 then when So I learned I learned that thing what what was the thing that changed what was the thing that stopped whatever this pan was okay What changed in you? Well, I realized that I was no different than the women that I had grown up with and I said I would never be that way So I grew up with my mother's first cousin Alice had um unfortunately Who's one of my abusers actually was was uh was a guy that um You know that beat her and she I remember he knocked her down the stairs and she had to go to the hospital broke one of her legs broken arm and she took him back and I always said I will never ever ever be that woman And when I was holding onto the bumper of the dots and Z I said oh I wasn't hit But I've become that woman I saw myself I saw myself I saw myself I saw my history I saw the history of women in my family who allowed themselves to sacrifice their own power to men And I said I'm gonna turn that around and so um I started attracting to myself different a different kind of person what actions brought that on once that mental shift happened What were the things that you can remember that became different about okay? Retracted okay, so so so so I was always attracted to Somebody who was in one way or another trying to tell me I wasn't good enough And so When I that's why I'm saying that anytime you think it's about the other person that person is showing up to show you who you are So if you're in a relationship where you taking a lot of stuff It's really not about that person. It's about what is it about you That doesn't have the value for yourself that you're willing to elect yourself be treated that way It's not about him. So now I I think him I think him I realized that All of the bad relationships were my best teachers my best teachers So if you're in a bad relationship for you or somebody that's not loving you the way you want to be loved or seeing you the way you want to be seen That's not on them. That's on you That's on you and the reason it keeps showing up wearing a different pair of pants is because God the universe the life force is trying to get you to see it and how bad does it have to get for you to see it That's why it's happening This ties back to also when you just said the quote of you know when you were on back of the bumper and in a he's saying You know, you just think you're special. No, I'm not. No, I'm not This makes me just think about the conversation around shame Yeah, I think a lot of times when we hear that is as people this concept of value or steam It's like well, actually I like myself. I like myself. I think I'm this. I think I'm that But sometimes the shame is actually coded with this thing of like I like I think I'm so awesome that I'm in that Respired yeah, and I feel like you get what I mean by this yeah, I do get what you mean by because you know To be with somebody who doesn't see your true value and worth and who's trying to make you feel like I mean I was just a little I was a local Television reporter which is in that market you are the big deal in that market, you know But you know and people know you and you go to the store and people know who you are So it's like your little fish in an or a big fish and a little pond And he was like oh you think you something because you're on the news that kind of thing and I'm like no, I don't I don't and so I was out to try to in in my early 20s trying to make The other person that person believe that I'm just like everybody else. Oh - That's it. - That is dangerous. - That is dangerous. - Because what's so funny is within this same conversation, you had the situation clearly there was such great growth there because you had the same conversation with the man and you said, "I wanna be a mogul." - Yeah. - So at this point, it was like, "I know I'm special "and I know what I can achieve." - Yeah. - What, how did you get, I mean, that's-- - Yeah, how did I get to that? - Owning. - Yes, yeah. - Owning that I'm a (beep) a boyfriend. (laughing) - You know? 'Cause that's what people got to get to because we're all, we all are special. I truly believe this. - Oh, I truly believe this. - I truly believe this, but it's literally like that Marianne Williamson quote. - Well, yes, but here's the thing. It's those years, it's the years of the holding onto the bumper instead of feeling what a jerk he was. I was blaming myself for it. Like, what could I have done differently? And so I was like, I would say around 2627, I came out of it. 28, I started doing my local talk show. 30, I moved to Chicago. By 30, I was solidly into, this is what I want. And this is what I want to achieve for myself. - Yeah. - But it took me some going to get there. And you know what, if you grew up in an environment and I say this all the time, because one of the reasons why I feel so solidly grounded in life and so wise is that I have been obedient to the call of my life and I have paid attention. I'm not just, I'm not just willing, I'm not a part of the walk and dead going through life. I'm paying attention to everything. And I'm learning from every experience. And one of the reasons why I've been so gifted with blessings is because I had experience after experience, after experience, after experience to learn from on the show. I wasn't just doing a show. I was absorbed into what it means to create this kind of human behavior. And how do I avoid that? I don't want to, you know what? And I think for a lot of people who watch the show and also now the podcast is like, oh, I think that crazy. I can learn from other people's lessons. So I learned a lot from other people's lessons. - How has your curiosity evolved? Because like you said, 3,500 people plus. - Yeah. - Where do you find the desire or the urgent? I mean, look, human beings are so exciting and unique. So I get that. But what drives this next chapter of what you want to talk about? - Because I am continually interested in the rising of the human experience of how we meet the rising of our lives. I think that we as human beings have been given this planet. My God, you're looking, God's like, what are y'all gonna get it together? - Okay. - Over there, on earth. And so being able to help people to see that through, you know, storytelling, you know, on the podcast and in other areas is still something that brings be great joy, stimulation and curiosity. Did you realize at the time, I think it's so important to ask people such as yourself, I mean, you are a cultural institution. But I always wonder, especially for any of us that are on our path, what did it feel like during the time? Did you actually feel like when you were doing the Oval River Show, I'm doing something, I'm making something crazy, incredible that's gonna last a lifetime. Or did it feel chaotic and nerve-wracking? And you know what I mean? - Well, it was a joy of, you know, all the stuff that happens when you have a team in place and none of us are who we are without all the people in the background. - It's sex. - Making it, that's sex. Making it happen. And so there was a machine that was really humanized by all of the passion and desire of producers and the entire staff to do a good job for the audience every day. And we decided around 1989, certainly I decided, that I wasn't gonna just be a show, I was gonna be a force for good in the world. And I did that after doing a show with the Ku Klux Klan. I mean, I saw the Ku Klux Klan giving signals to each other. I was trying to show their vitriol and the hatred and I realized, oh, I'm doing the opposite. I'm creating a platform for them to spread their vitriol. - And unity. - And I had done another show where a husband had his mistress on and his wife on and he embarrassed his mistress in the middle of the show. Embarrassed his wife by saying, oh, you don't know she's pregnant. And I said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't, to see her face and her humiliation. I'm not gonna be a part of that. So I sat down with the team and said, that thing I was talking about earlier, how do we just do work that is intentional to lift up people's lives? How do you do a show every single day, no matter what it is, it's infused with some piece of light in it that people walk away with something that they feel like, oh, that was worth my time. - Yes, right. How can I be if service to you? - Well, that's the word, the word of service, the word of service. - Because otherwise, what do we do? And I wanna take for you, everybody's already taken from you as a witness. - Everybody is taking everything. - So if I'm gonna sit up here and ask for a minute of your time, you, like Danielle, I'm leaving with something. (laughing) You know, you need to live with something. So I really love that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Let's talk about what it means to be a black woman in these spaces. - Yeah. - And how you have to overcome so much based off perception, what people are expecting of you, while at the same time still being true to who you are. (upbeat music) - In every great production, there is the star. And then there's the thing that makes the star look good without ever asking for credit, think about it. The right lighting paired with the perfectly timed music cue. The one friend who fixes your collar before you walk into a room, they're unsung, but yet absolutely essential. Life is already asking a lot of you. The best things are the ones that take something off your plate without you even having to ask. That's what Fruit of the Loom Women's underwear is in my daily lineup. I'm putting together looks, I'm making entrances, I'm doing the most as always, and underneath all of it is something so comfortable and so reliable that I genuinely forget is there. And when you're going to do the most, the last thing you need is one more decision. Fruit of the Loom is the one I already made. Comfortable, reliable, completely off my mental checklist. The fit doesn't shift and the fabric doesn't fight me. It just lets me do what I do. The most powerful pieces in any ensemble are the ones that elevate without competing. And when something supports you that effortlessly, you stop searching and you start trusting. It becomes the easy choice, not because it's basic because it's exactly right. One less thing to figure out, one decision you never have to second guess about. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the version that is on the way somewhere locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees a Starbucks and just turns, mid-strived with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors. These mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth and a butterfly pea flower infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen, like it's the most important thing that happened all week because it might be. One small choice can lead to old Jeff. Unlike your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks, order now on the app. I think that's something that is so interesting because we can find ourselves learning so many different languages, so to speak. And then by the time that you get there, the very people that you were, that were motivating you to get to that place, sometimes don't even recognize you. You go from being the underdog or someone that people are rooting for to sitting on the top of the mountain and all of a sudden you don't look the same. - To them. - To them. - Yeah. Well those are the people who couldn't handle the oxygen. They couldn't handle the climb. So you cannot bring everybody along with you. And I will say this to anybody who's listening at whatever level you are, particularly if you are the first person in your family to break through. Then I remember in those early days when my salary was all over the front pages of all the tabloids and stories. And now that I look back on it, I can see how much God loves me because at the time, because I always been in television since I was 19 years old, I was just going from one job to the, and now I'm gonna do this job. And I realize that doing my own show in Chicago was a big deal. But I never expected to become. I remember telling my father when I was in the barbershop, my father had a barbershop in East Nashville one day that actually this is a better story. When my father was dying in 2022, we were sitting out on the porch. - Long life. - And my father said, is it true what they say? I said, what do you mean? He goes, they say you're being there. - Huh? - Is that true? - He say you what? - A billionaire. - Okay. - That's what my father said to me. He says, is that true? This is a 20, 22 July, July 5th, 2022. And I said, yeah, it's true. He goes, what, that's something? That's really something. He goes, you never talked about being a billionaire. Now you always talked about being a millionaire. You always said that one day you're gonna be a millionaire. And I remember you running around the barbershop, talking about you're gonna be a millionaire. And I remember Mr. Thomas, when you became a millionaire, billionaire said, you know, Oprah always said she was going to become a millionaire. I didn't know how she's going to do it, but she did it. So now you're telling me you're billionaire. I said, well, I never talked about being a billionaire. I didn't know there wasn't such a thing. Right. I didn't even know there wasn't such a thing. And so this idea that I always had, I have always had a belief that my life was bigger than I could even imagine because I always thought I was like, I belong to something bigger than myself, which is the higher power of God. Right. And so I actually do believe and did believe that through Christ you can do all. All things I really do. You can. I really do. My life is a testimony to that. Yes. So is mine. Yes, I think. So is yours. So is mine. I really did believe that. So all the things that people thought a black woman should be or should do, it never occurred to me that I couldn't do what I've done. It never occurred to me. It just never occurred to me. Never occurred to me because I always saw myself as a little black girl who was truly God's child so much so that when I started school and I didn't even know who my father was at the time when I started school, I used to tell people they say, who you're Dan and go, Jesus is my daddy and they go, this girl crazy. I'm not Jesus is our daddy. So I really grew up believing that I could do all things because I was God's child. And so when I walked into the newsroom and I was the only black woman there, I just assumed I was supposed to be there because God had made the way for that. It never occurred to me to feel like I didn't belong because I knew God had created the path for me to be there. When I got the job in Baltimore and was criticized for being black, let me just tell you, I didn't realize I was doing an interview with Tracey Ellis Ross about hair. We were doing a big thing. Thank you so much. Okay, so why are you crying? Because I feel that exact same way where even in my human moments where it's scary or you can, people call it imposter syndrome, whatever, my courage has always claimed through because I have such a deep faith in God. I literally, the source, it's like no matter what feels strange on the outside, it has never guided or stopped or thwarted my ability to push forward. And I think the tears are also coming from, first of all, it's an overwhelming sense of recognition. And then it's like how do, when people don't have that, when they don't know that, when they can't find their connection to that, I also feel grief for that. Because certain things are out of your control, but that does not mean that it can stop you. And yet we are living in a world where people feel absolutely stopped. They feel like there's not, there's, there's, every hill is too high. There's no, there's no role they can get passed. And that, that really saddens me. It saddens me. But to, well can I say it saddens me? I'm not even sad. You will get to the point where you won't be sad anymore about it because you will be so grateful that you're one of the people who understands how it works. And so what I never understood when I was a kid is like people going to church praying, praying, praying, praying, praying to God. And then going home and worrying, worrying, worrying, worrying, worrying. So here, I mean, I lived in Chicago. My kitchen faced the Lake Michigan and the sun would come up every morning over the lake. And I would stand there drinking my tea or coffee or whatever was at the time. And I would just watch the sunrise before heading off to work. And I think my faith is like that. I have sun-rise faith. All of us have been in an airplane where it's pouring raining on the ground and all kinds of crazy things are happening on the ground. And then you shoot above the clouds and there the sun is there. It's always there. Yeah. Well, the power of God, the power of the force of your life, which you can feel in your breath and every breath there is the force of life breathing with above, around, through you. I have faith in that thing. I have faith in the thing that causes that sun to come up every morning. And the thing that made that sun come up every morning, certainly, if I am in alignment with the truth of myself and I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, I'm moving in the direction that I'm supposed to be moving, it's going to meet me where I am. And it's going to grow me to the next level. That is what has happened in your life. That is what has happened in my life. And on all those years, I was journaling and I was praying. I have these journals where I'm asking God to help the guy whose bumper I was holding on to. God, please make him love me, help him to see that I'm really the woman he needs. And all that crazy. What I realize now is God was waiting on me. I'm waiting on God to do something to change him and God is waiting on you. And so it's all about what do you really want and are you in alignment with why you, with your purpose? That as I was going to say, the great teaching from Seed of the Soul for me, there's a great line in there that says, "When you're personality, you have a great one, you have a big one, your personality's huge, okay? Gynoormous personality comes to serve the energy of your soul. That is authentic empowerment." So that means when you are using, no matter who you are, if you are using your personality, your talents, your gifts to serve the deeper reason why you're here, then you are in alignment with purpose and nobody can touch you. No weapon formed against you. You shall prosper because you are in alignment with that thing, that force that makes the sun come up every morning. You are in alignment with that thing. And so why am I going to walk in a room and feel that because I'm a black woman, anything other than I am supposed to be here. Because God is the one who paved the way for me. I did not get here by myself. I mean, listen, I live in some of the most beautiful spaces in the world, but there is not one moment that I look outside my yard and I don't see the presence of God that got me there. I pay, I pay, I pay, I pay for it. I pay for it. But the fact that I'm in that space, it was a gift to me. And the same thing, you're rising. I see you rising and I see you meeting that rising for yourself. And I will tell you that your future is so bright, it burns my eyes. That's what's coming for you. That is what's coming for you because you are willing to be in alignment with the true purpose of your life and you're not just out here playing. And when you stop playing, you know, I used to say to me all the time that maybe one day you're going to, right now you in show business, but one day you will be about your father's business. When you can, when you can align your business with your father's business. How did you make your philosophy something that you could scale? Because that, it's not just superficial. It's not, this is, and obviously this is no shade to somebody making a lip gloss or something like that. That's not at all. But when I think about the business of Oprah Winfrey, you found a way to create an ecosystem around things that are actually very, the big ideas about growth, about inspiration, about who you can be. It's not just who you can be. It's like who you already are. But can you meet the rising? I mean, you've already been created to do great things and stop playing with yourself. How did you make that a scalable business? Did it come before you? The reason, you know, it's so interesting you're saying this because I remember in the earlier, as people would say, you know, the Oprah brand, the Oprah brand. I was always offended by that. I don't know now. Everybody wants their own brand. But I was offended by the idea of people calling me a brand because I thought I'm not a brand. I'm a person. And all of this is just coming from myself. And so the reason why it becomes scalable for me, because it's the truth of me, I was seeking it for myself. I was seeking it for myself. I wanted to be whole. I wanted to fulfill the mission of my calling. I wanted to honor God's dream for me. Yes. And I think creation has a dream for everyone it's created. And my advice to people is lean into that dream and stop trying to dream it for yourself. Or align your dream with God's dream for you. What is that dream? What are you really here to do that's bigger than you plan around? What's bigger than your paycheck? What's bigger than your, that's the thing that has you lit up or partying or whatever. There's something bigger, deeper going on for all. - All of us in there. - What is the why? What is your why? - Are there signs that people can touch on that point towards that meaning like, you know, when you know that you aren't alive and when you know that you are a guy. - When you tell me, when you've seen it, you tell me. - Well, when I've seen it in my life, what I feel like it is is I'm following the truth. I'm not, you know, it's like I'm making my choices not based off of directly the outcome but what feels real to me. I'm almost sometimes feeling like I'm being literally led by a force to say something, and make a choice to make a decision. It feels like it's just coming through me as opposed to I'm trying to design it. And so sometimes it is difficult when even I'm asked this question about what it means to be an alignment. I think I always come back to finding a way to be present enough first. I think I always start there. I love Pilates because of that. I know you say I love Pilates. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Pilates. - Because it really allows you to flush the meat and the meat. - You gotta get that toe on the bar. You gotta get the thing. I mean, they all gotta be like-- - It's a lot of alignment. - A lot of alignment. - Yeah, oh my God. Jesus, now your back is out too, and then okay. - But it's good with these new needs. - I guess fantastic. - I'm always thinking about how to know when I'm in body, and when I'm not in body. That helps me to also figure out what's leading me how I'm actually being in the moment. But it's almost like something that you just feel. It's the inner thing that I've always felt since I was a little girl. Like when you were talking about, you know, what your dad was saying that you was saying in the barbershop, I was like that as a kid. I always knew that there was something bigger than me. I wasn't sure if that was just 'cause I grew up in a church. You know my dad's a dick, and like, was that just that connection? Like I'm always trying to figure out how to distill what has allowed me to become, because the process of becoming is so-- - I can tell you what it is. Even if you haven't articulated it for yourself, it means you listened to something beyond the voice in your head. You were the observer of the voice in your head that we're talking about. And you were able to listen to the still, small voice that led you forward. Every decision that has brought you success and me success and anybody else who's listening has come from that space of something that's bigger than you that has a dream for you, for lack of a better word, that has a design for you that's waiting for you to find the flow for yourself. And the way to the flow is the truth. You can't do it if you're not in truth. You can't do it if you're abusing yourself. You can't do it if you allow other people to be in your life to diminish you. You are punishing yourself. It is a violent act against yourself. To allow other people in your life to diminish you and to not lift you and exalt you. If you don't have other people who see you for the light that you are, for the joy that you are, for the goodness that you bring to the, you are with the wrong people. I don't care how that shows up in your life. If it's somebody you're working with, put somebody you in deep relationship with, the reason that person keeps showing up in your life is for you to make the change. You can't change them. That's why the Wizard of Oz is one of the greatest teachings ever. - It's excellent. - It's excellent. - And what I love so much about the good witch is that she wasn't really telling Dorothy what to do. She was guiding Dorothy towards herself. She was making Dorothy remember. She was helping Dorothy remember. So it's Dorothy who says, I guess I learned that I look no further than my own backyard. The other great teaching of the good witch is, when she says to the wicked witch of the West, go away, you have no power here. So here's the truth for all of us. You only have power in your own territory. She was saying to the wicked witch, you have no power because this ain't your territory. You have nothing to do here, which is. - Exactly. - That's right. And the same thing for all of us. We spend so much time focused on other people's territory that you have no power over. So just take care of your own backyard, your own territory and not worry, see that things that are showing up in your life are showing up to help you raise your level of maturity, of growth, of consciousness for yourself. That's why it's showing up. - Yeah. - Yeah. It's not about them. - Oh my gosh. - Is it such a great conversation? - It's such a great conversation. I really, we got to have a part two on you. - Maybe, I'm with Tiki. - Yeah, maybe I'm with Oprah or Oprah, she'll say. Oh my girl. Okay, I'm not gonna keep you forever, but you're gonna have me or your podcast. - I'm gonna have you on my class. - Please, so that we can get into some more stuff. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it. - Because I really, I mean, I could go on forever, but I'm not gonna take all my girls time. I'll end it with a little game. - Okay. - So basically, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of things that you may or may not do. You can tell me, yes, no, absolutely not, but I'm nosy, so if there's a story, you know, go ahead, give it to me. - Okay. - Okay, it's, would you ever? Okay, so first one, would you ever host another daily talk show? - Well, I think I am actually, I'm doing it twice a week with a podcast. It feels like that. 'Cause sometimes I do it with an audience, so I love, I would do that. - Oh yeah, I love that too. A daily is too much. - Oh. - A daily is too much. - Yeah. - Yeah. - But. - The mediums change. - The medium is changed. - And then it is evolved into the podcast as a new way of communicating with people. - And two days gives it little time for things to catch. You know, you need news feed. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, take a group vacation. - Who's in the group? - Exactly. - Exactly. - So you wanna take a group vacation, but it needs to be a certain folks. - Curated. - I know that's right. Yes. How many people max? - 10. - Oh, I love that. Call me, oh. I'll be eight. 10 people, that's a lot of help. - Yeah, yeah. - We love that. - We could only need two cars for all the travel. And no, no, no, no, no, but you can do 10. Yeah, okay. - Yeah, all right. - I like that. Okay, sharing clothes with Gail. - No. (laughing) - I don't share things. If once you take something of mine, keep it. - Okay, did you see Gail on "Color Daddy?" So funny talking about, you know, people thought we were gay. It didn't bother Oprah, 'cause she had a man. That gagged me. She's saying that nobody would be hitting on her 'cause they thought she was taking. - Yeah, yeah. - That's true. That has followed us forever and ever. - It was, it's really cool though to hear you guys talk about it. Like, and just say how you felt. - You know, so interesting because for a long time, Maya said, don't say anything about it because you only give it power. So we played that for a long time. Like, don't say anything, don't say anything, don't say anything. Now I think, you know, Gail goes, I don't care, I'm just gonna talk about it. So I think, and my God, if you're still thinking that, you're an idiot. - Yeah. - You're just an idiot. - It's really relatable though. You know, it is. 'Cause people always do that. Make up stories about, come on man. Let me alone. Read spoilers before finishing a book. - No. - Okay. You wanna strict program. - Yeah, I gotta strict. (laughing) Oh no. I can't finish it if I read the spoiler. - Really? - Then there's no reason for me to continue. I can't. - Push your favorite book of all time. - The Bluey's die, Tony Morrison. - Amazing book. - Never turned it into a movie. - No, too hard. - Why would you say, what do you mean? What do you say? - Too hard, it's just too hard. It's too hard. Sad little black girls. You know, the story of Bluey's die is, you know, it was actually Tony Morrison's first story. And one of the things that surprised me when I had her on the show to talk about this book, is that women around the world related to Pocola Breedlove, who is the main character. The little girl who went insane, trying to have Blue Eyes, little black girl wanting Blue Eyes. And the message is that everything we've been talking about here today, anytime you're trying to be somebody you're not, it's insanity, because you were only created to be you. So you were completely out of alignment if you're trying to be something that you don't have the capacity to be. So understanding your own capacity and who you were meant to be, that's the most important thing. And you can't do that by yourself. You have to ask the power, whether you call it God or not, you have to meditate, you have to sit in gratitude, you have to say, what do you want from me? What, why, you have to ask the big questions of your life in order to continue to move forward. And my journals are filled with, why am I here? Why am I here? Why am I here? Why am I really here? Am I here? I'm not just here to have a talk show and have shoes. Okay. And have good shoes. What do you hear to offer? Offer the planet. And because it's a broken equation to not acknowledge the you of it all. Yes. When you are constantly, that's why some people say, oh, you just throw up, you just saw yourself. Well, who else I'm going to be? Who else she going to be? You know, that's why it's like, I don't have any other choices to be key to. And it's also the reason why, you know, many times, Gell, you're just sitting there by yourself. I'm not by myself. I'm actually with myself. I'm never by myself. I'm always with myself. And I am the best company I could ever keep for myself. That's what I feel. Did it ever get lonely? I have never experienced loneliness. Willy. No. I don't even know what that means. I actually don't know what that means. Well, I guess in this context, it would be not being met. You know, I think most people would maybe think how many people can over talk, too. Well, I think in my early days, I mean, those 20 crazy, 20's which were crazy for me. I think I felt lonely then, because I felt I needed somebody to make myself feel whole. I don't feel that anymore. So I feel like I would be one of those people who could, I mean, obviously you need connection, relationships, and community, but I am happiest with myself. And so I'm just, you know, - I love this. Okay, just Femur, go on a reality show. I already know the answers to this. - You know I didn't have any. - Exactly. - Read your social media comments? - No, I don't read them. - Kerioki? - No, I don't. - No, no, I don't. Period, no, I don't. (laughs) - Be 30 again. - No, I don't wanna be 30 again, but I would take 44. I think it's life starts at 44. - Woo, tell me why 44 was so good. Because you come into yourself in a way that you're no longer trying to please everybody else. You come into yourself. You have, I do have some girls now that I've been to who are in their early 30s who've gotten to it sooner. But for me it was 44 where I locked in. Where I locked in and I could see the rising for myself. I wasn't just doing things for other people. I wasn't just creating the work to be like, "Yeah, I had this talk to you." I really was in full drive, purposeful, living for myself. 44 is when it locked in. - You saying that is so interesting about the 30 roles that you're working with. I'm curious of what you see in the difference generationally, what was allowed or what was possible for 30s, something women. And your time and then when you see the 30s, somethings of a. - When I share my stories from my journal or even actually have the girls looking at my job, they say they go, "God, what kind of woman were you?" And what was it? They can't even believe it. The idea of putting up with somebody who doesn't return a phone call or somebody who doesn't, all these stories I have about not running my bath water because the phone might ring. And so sitting by the window and waiting on the blue dots and the show up. - So sweet. - So pitiful. So pitiful. So pitiful. So I see that there's a level of independence and growth in my daughter girls now that I didn't have. There's a level of maturity and respect for themselves. And I would have to say I played a big role in that because for all of my girls, particularly the South African girls, they grew up in environments where they were abandoned. And I used to teach a class at my school called Life 101. And I literally said to them, you're going to have major problems in your relationships unless you accept, get to the point of acceptance that you have been abandoned in your life because a lot of them lost their parents when they were, because AIDS and, you know, absolutely poverty and crime and all the other things. So you don't want to be, I said, you're either going to be the kind of woman who is going through the pockets of your spouse and looking at the wallet and looking at the phone calls and hootie-jee and hunting the gun. Do you love me enough? Or you're the kind of person who shuts all of that down and you don't let anybody in. So do the work on yourself, for yourself, that gets you to the point where you can have full acceptance of yourself so you're not blaming your relationships for where you are. And so I've seen that. I mean, those girls are so, they're so good at it. They're so good at it. Much better than I was. I mean, I was like, I was late, late, late. - But it's so good, like you were saying. - Hold on to the bump, a baby. - I was saying. (laughing) - That imagery? - Oh my God. - No, no, this imagery. - Okay. - You see all the people watching from their apartment, so I'm like, oh my God, that was bad. - Well, I think you know what, I'll go ahead and leave it there and I'll just say that what a joy. What a joy to sit down with you. What a joy. - What a conversation. - Man. - Baby. - We were near there. - There. - Okay. - Okay. (laughing) Okay, have fun cutting that, y'all. - Okay. - Thank you so much for hanging out with me. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer's soul. Oh wait, I have one more thing to show you. I think this will give you a little key. - Okay. Okay, let me pull this up. Oh, don't, girl. This is crazy. Ready to be gacked? - Yeah, ready to be. - Please welcome a bright new young talent and the star of Akila and the B, 12-year-old Kiki Palmer coming out. (laughing) - It's the snow, that isn't. (upbeat music) - What you is this? - 2005, you kick some in this movie. - Does this, thank you. - You were wonderful. - What is this? - Look at you. - Oh my God. - I love this. - Yeah, I did. I'm done. Never gave me a break. - Oh my God. - The director of the ride. - I was always some little doogie house or why did I have this suit on? - I know. - Oh my gosh, I was such a serious kid. - I remember this, I remember. I mean, don't we all automatically go back to when I was wearing that day? - Oh my gosh, you looked fabulous. I love this orange and this hair, this little half up and down, dude. - I didn't expect to cry. I just went in there and did the best thing I could do. And I went in there and I just started to cry when I was doing the lines. And I just was crying and saying the lines. And then I went and shook it. All the producers hands and I just said, - Chiki Palmer. - We got up in the middle of the night. - H12 actress, wow. H12. - Wow. Okay, I can't wait to talk to you. - I can't wait. - I can't wait to talk to you. - I cannot. - Okay, wait. - Okay, I did your podcast. You gotta do my everybody. - Don't! - Yes, you're the best girl. Then you can see my back yours. - Yes. - My girl, oh. (laughing) (upbeat music) Oh, that was Oprah Winfrey. You guys, I just cannot believe the conversation that I was having with her. I mean, I was looking at my notes and this is one of the rare times where I didn't even have to remember what I had to say because the conversation was just flowing. We've been with Oprah for so long. I think sometimes we take for granted who she's been to all of us, the aha moments she's given us. And she gave so many to me. And hopefully you all right there. For someone who has helped so many people better understand themselves and their purpose, it was cool to also see how she's still discovering her own. And with the Oprah podcast, she's continuing to create space for those kinds of conversations. Thank you so much, Oprah, for being here and for showing us that even after achieving the dream, there is still discovery on the other side and gratitude for what got you there. See you guys next time. Baby, this is Kiki. Yeah.