I'm Amanda Davins and this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about what happens when Sean goes on Big Picture! That's right, the Letterbox Lord is out of office and that means I'm joined by my friend, Jam Session co-host and generational romantic comedy expert Juliet Littman to discuss one night only, the newest Will Gluck entry in the genre. We'll also build the 21st century romcom canon, which will be perfect and make no one angry. All of that right after this, it's Juliet Littman, I'm putting my prop down now, that's a very light one night only joke, but also I just thought of it while I was falling asleep the other night and it made me laugh and I wanted to amuse myself. It makes me think of the viral videos of people covering Natasha and Bettingfield. Have you seen that with all these like moms in the kitchen with their various kitchen supplies and toilet paper and brooms? No, I didn't know about that, but this is a good opener, it's Juliet, welcome to the Big Picture by the way. Thanks. This is different internet and different cultural references coming together on the Big Picture and I doubt that Sean Fantasy knows who Natasha Bettingfield is much less about those videos. She, of course, sang the title song to the Hills Unwritten and in these videos, people aren't like covering that song, yeah, covering use loosely, they're playing that song in dancing along with their kitchens. So this is the level that the Big Picture is going to be on today and I almost just called this podcast jam session because that's what it is, but we are going to talk about movies. It is a happy fate of scheduling that Sean is away and you Juliet are here for the romantic comedy event of the summer. I agree, I just don't say I'm very nervous, I just feel like the Big Picture audience has high expectations and demands a lot. So I hope I can deliver, I'll do the best that I can, you know, I respect you, I respect Sean, I respect your listener, so I'm here to come to your level. And you respect romantic comedies, so we're going to talk about one night only, we're going to talk about the last 25 years in romantic comedies, which I think is going to be a fraught, but exciting conversation and there's no one else I'd rather have it with. So I'm very glad you're here. I want to do some quick news because we haven't recorded in a week and I'll just, I'll talk at you on the news and you want to weigh in great, you don't, you don't have to. Okay, most of the news, we'll keep it quick because most of the news is about how people who are not us have made a lot of money and that's great, but it's not coming to the Big Picture. So Spider-Man brand new day, have you seen it Juliet? I have not, I really have always wanted to be involved in these movies and it's just never taken for me, I'm just going to be honest, but I'm really happy for everyone involved because I know that they're seeing a lot of success. Yes, everyone else in America seemingly has seen it. It made 360 million domestic dollars in its first weekend, which is a lot and in fact breaks the Avengers in-game opening weekend record though, you know, you figure in for inflation, whatever. It's a lot of money. It's doing very well. Currently, as of this recording, $1.1 billion worldwide. One of the narratives was like Kennet Cross 2 and, you know, we don't know, but Outlook good as the forward say, and the only thing I want to add to this is that on our last Spider-Man episode, Sean asked me, gave me an over-under on the number of movies that Tom Holland would play in Spider-Man and going forward. And his over-under was 2.5 and I said under because I think two and that was a mistake and I should have said more because I wasn't thinking about the fact that he could also then like pass the Spidey torch to the next Spider-Man but then show up as a mentor. And I think he'll be doing that at least for a very long time because he is too bankable. I will say I have seen the Spider-Verse movies, the animated ones. Yes. I love them. I think they're like so beautiful and great New York movies. And that sounds very similar to the Spider-Verse movies with the mentorship and the multiple spideys. Yes, it's a good plan to me. Yes. Everyone in Spider-Man Land is doing very well and I congratulate them. And I congratulate everyone who loved the movie. I liked it. I just did a quick Google to see if either Zendaya or Tom Holland were Leo's, they're not, but congrats to them on enjoying the abundance of the Emerald Year. Exactly. Less abundance or abundance on pause, we haven't been talking too much about the Paramount Warner Brothers merger acquisition because it is on pause and we are also not business people. The trial was recently set, there was a deal made to delay it, to delay the trial to deal between Paramount and the state attorneys. And the trial date was set from March, 2027. So this is ongoing. Meanwhile, David Ellison took to the op-ed pages of The New York Times to kind of restate his case seemingly like reframe the narrative. There was a lot about, like I've, I'm taking this back for myself, a lot more I love movies, you know, he cites Top Gun Maverick because a broken clock is right once a day in Europe. And it's, you know, it is what it is, no real news, except that nothing will move forward until March, 2027. I, do you, do you follow this at all? I follow it through Matt Bellamy's newsletter almost exclusively, like I don't really read news stories about the, I read the headlines essentially. My question for you is, what if Europe blocks it, but the US allows it? What happens? I don't know, honestly, because once again, I'm not Matt Bellamy or one of these experts. I do believe that Europe passed something more failing to it recently. They indicate it. Yeah. How that that is not the front concern, seemingly with the, the judge who made a ruling that actually did, the language seemed to suggest that she bought the state's attorneys argument that this would be like a market monopoly against movie theaters, right? Which is why David Ellsson is again stating in his, like I will release X many movies and, you know, op-eds are not legally or financially binding, so sure, that's nice. So I think right now this trial, as I read it, and from all the business journalists who cover it, the, the trial and the timing is, the American trial is the issue for Paramount right now. Got you. Okay. So you have to go. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not, again, I'm, I'm not a legal party to any of this. That's a thing that is happening. Okay. More exciting news. Britney Snow joins Sydney Sweeney in Lions Gates, the house made sequel. Did you see the house made no, I did not really fun time at the movies, can't say it was great. Britney's, but that's okay, great and fun. Don't have to co-exist and maybe we'll talk about that more. Sure. I did consume a lot of the press tour. Sure. And to say, Fried has like a big part of my online life, I would say, in part because I watch videos of her preparing for the 2012 Oscars frequently, as I watched the video of the Les Mis cast singing their number together before they actually performed it. And of course, she's in it. So drinking tea, looking beautiful. In general, also she, I don't know, this probably made it to you, it's a movie. They released some set photos from octet with the next film from Lynn Manuel Miranda, which she is directing. And she is in it among a lot of other Broadway stars, and like Gatton, Madarazzo and Jonathan Groff, Phillipa Sue, et cetera, Charlie Ralph is in it. It's exciting when Lynn Manuel Miranda takes his talents public. He's always working on so many things. In this photo, she like shined brighter than all these other very bright stars. And I just think that she has a certain it factor that called out to me. And so I follow her very closely ever since big love. I would assume that you can now watch the house made in the comfort of your own home. Yes. My Roku television has advertised that to me. Well, I think it's a very fun time at the movies. The house made two is on my radar because I enjoyed the house made one. And also because Kirsten Dunst was previously announced as a cast member. And also, so Paul Anthony Kelly, AKA JFK Jr, a John, John from American love story, Carolyn Bissett, Kennedy and JFK Jr. I think I got that title correct, you know, the one I see will I assume be playing the husband? He has joined this film. And I think that's the correct use of him. I think most people know what they're doing. So I'm looking forward to this. I've never seen anything that Britney Snow didn't make better. Like I think she's great. Well, I don't we have more of her. Did you watch her TV show on Netflix? You know, it really had I did not because I don't watch TV. This is a film podcast. Would you like to tell us briefly? No, it's fine. Go ahead.
I just, she's charming, she's always charming. Yes, she also was like a really weird thing happened where like, you know, she was like a teen star and then she was in the pitch-perfect movie. So like, she's had a very steady, successful career. She had her first husband went on a Netflix reality show and was like incredibly inappropriate on his co-stars, like just really crossing the line of flirting and touching while Mary to a very famous person, Whitney Snow, they've since gotten divorced and they're both now remarried. But this is like all happened within the last four to five years. And I feel like she's been freed and like her career is soaring once again now that she's no longer dating to the, dating this or married to this guy from Netflix. I, I think this is great casting for The Housemaid 2 and I look forward to it. Okay, last thing that I want to mention to you, so Netflix dated and scheduled its theatrical release for La Bola Negra, which is one of its seeming Oscar hopefuls. La Bola Negra debuted at Cannes, but at the end of Cannes, so I didn't get to see it, that's okay. I will. And then was acquired by Netflix. It's going to be released October 16th in theaters, December 2nd on streaming, which many people are trumpeting as kind of like Netflix's largest or longest ever theatrical release window. And I personally don't think that this means that Netflix is completely reversing course on its theatrical strategy. I just, I do think it means that it believes in La Bola Negra for the Oscars and it's, the La Bola Negra is a Spanish like historical epic directed by Los Javis. And it is one of the movies that Shawn like immediately texted me after walking out of it saying like, wow, I was very moved by it, which is, you know, that immediate response is a very good sign. So I'm excited to see it and I'm excited that Netflix seems to think that this has some, has some Oscar heat at the theater thing guys at, you know, it's a long road. Sure. I mean, they've owned theaters for a long time, so I don't, it doesn't seem like it's like a big indicator of anything. I understand like putting their, it, I think your point about suggests like they believe in it. Yeah, I get that, but like the theater thing seems right from all indicators, not like a huge part of that strategy. And also we've been talking a lot about this, the, the fall theatrical release schedule is a little strange and Thanksgiving is a little, if things keep moving around, things keep getting delayed, Thanksgiving is still a little bit empty. So maybe it's just a reflection of, of what's available. Anyway, we'll see. I'm excited to see it. Let's talk about a film that isn't theaters, and that we have both seen. We sure have. It's called One Night Only. I'm going to do the, I'm going to give the details, okay, which may surprise some people because I've had this experience while talking to friends. And many people who have seen the trailer and are still surprised to learn the premise of this film. So anyway, this is directed by Will Gluck, who directed Easy A, anyone but you, friends with benefits, also some Peter Rabbit movies. The script is by Travis Braun, and it was on the blacklist in 2024. And it stars Monica Babaro, Callum Turner, Maya Hawk, Molly Ringwald, Lovar Burton, King Princess, Michelle Her, Julia Fox and more. The story is, two strangers, this is the logline, two strangers, try to find love on the One Night of the Year when pre-marital sex is legal. Julia Whitman, what did you think? I had a good time, I liked it, I had a good time. I thought it was really clever in some ways. It was flawed in many others, but the feeling and the movie stars were enough for me. And it was at appropriate length at one hour and like 46 minutes. And so that was fun. It comes out strong with some good jokes, particularly using Monica Babaro's talents. And I had a good time. I mean, certainly not like, you know, a Nora Efron movie or an Nancy Mayer's movie or you know, even some of my favorite recent Netflix movies, but I really like enjoyed myself. Okay. We're going to get into that. Okay. I mostly disagree with you. I thought that this was an incredibly charming movie that almost works. It almost works. And the reason that I can't give it like the full pass is because it is just an insurmountable premise. And I do not think that the movie surmounts it. I don't know that a movie could, but this one tries to have it both ways and five other ways. And so you're in this complicated situation where you're in a sex comedy without any sex. We're in a romantic comedy on the, as I'm quoting the film and the trailer here, the least romantic night of the year. And you are also in a film where the federal government has banned premedical sex and embedded bio trackers in every single person. So I just, you can't get past it. I have less of a problem with that because I just was like kind of happy to go along with that. I guess I'm like was, I was willing to be led into down a dark path. But I felt the seams of the movie were just very apparent. I noticed edits a few times and it didn't feel like it had like the, the utmost craft to it. Maybe that's because there were so many challenges and streamlining the plot, which is like to really explain everything would take a long time. And I don't, I have, so I have notes on the premise and then if you're accepting the premise, I also have other notes that I'd like to go through. Okay. I'd love to hear them. Yeah. I, I agree with you. I mean, you said that you were willing to be led down a dark path. And this movie strenuously avoids the dark path. It is, it makes kind of elliptical or not elliptical. It has references to what they call the mandate, which is the law that's been passed where you can't have a premarital sex. And they have a talking head, they, you know, kind of like a news report with a faint congressman or fake elected representative who's supposed to be very conservative and is kind of a blowhard explaining why they did it. But, you know, not with any specific terms. They have, you know, kind of like repeal signs and, and decorations throughout the set and throughout the movie to kind of backgrounds suggest that there is some sort of acknowledgement and like quote unquote, resistance. They are all in the resist font, by the way, you know, or the multiple resist fonts. There is what I thought was the most forced part of like the premise and trying to work through the premise was a conversation that Monica Babaro's character has with Michelle Herd, the great actress, Michelle Herd, who is an NYPD officer, who is forced, who, who, who, Monica Babaro's character winds up in the hotel in the, she winds up in the police station and asks her, you know, why do you do this? Why are you being an enforcer of it? Love this thing that is so repressive. And it felt so inserted into the text. And so half-hearted attempt to kind of acknowledge larger socio-political discomfort in a movie that's otherwise not trying to do that, that in my experience it draws it more to the, to the unreality or the kind of having it both ways of the movie. Sure. Yeah. And it pulls you out of it when you're like that. Yeah. Of course. Exactly. Exactly. Like, like all of the plot strands that also like the morality of it, it's it's also just like unfun. Yeah. And the bio-trackers, do you play a plot point and also kind of set up the final reveal of the movie, but, you know, so they're there and I assume they're animated, but they're on everyone's wrist. And you're just talking a lot about the government, government monitoring your sex life via something that's embedded in your body. And they, I guess they do the best they can, but you are reminded of it. It does also feel very noted to me as like that there were the Michelle herd conversation is one. There's another one where there's a gay roommate who says has like one throwaway line about how like we've been skirting street people laws for years, you know, which is to maybe acknowledge the fact that you do primarily see heterosexual couples like getting it on. You know, like, you feel all the hands in the kitchen trying to solve this problem. And it also feels like if they're trying to restrict sex, wouldn't they also try to restrict like, you know, different sexualities? It doesn't track that you can be like openly gay while also like, you know, straight people can only have sex on this one night of the year. Like why would they stop there? And also, the main problem with the like one idea is there's no rationale for it, except for like there was that Congressman in your reference. I think at some points, like, you know, like reinforcing the importance of like the family unit. Right. But then the, you know, non straight person is a woman who's watching a kid that night and sort of like the only one of the two family units were like introduced to is like two friends and a random kid. So it doesn't really, it doesn't track with the mandate itself. Yes. And it does feel like the original idea for this movie was like, what if it was the purge but sex?
which is a really funny solvator pic. Yeah. But the purges of gruesome like horror movie. And so you can tell that the more you have to think about it and live in the world, the more this seems come apart, as you said, just because there are just many questions. You had a segue to all of the notes within the premise that I wanted to make. So I, here's, here are the questions I want to ask you about because this is the problem. The premise itself isn't sold. They, or you just have too many questions about like, okay, why are you outlawing sex for, you know, except for one night a year or premarital sex for one night a year? And what does that say about the world at large, but also power reinforcing that? So the number one question I had is why doesn't everyone just get married immediately? Yeah. And like, are there rules against divorce? Are you limited on the number of divorces you could have? They don't mention that. They don't get into cheating. And whether you can cheat if you're married, which seems like a very easy way to circumnavigate this, there is a rule. And this is a good rule that you have to wear a condom. So there's a safe sex aspect of that. And that also forms, you know, plot because, plot point because there's a run on condoms on the one night a year. And you've got to make sure you have a condom. Um, can we just pause on the condom thing for a second? I couldn't help but think of the movie The Trojan War the entire time I was watching the condom Odyssey with Will Friedell and Jennifer Love Hewitt, which was a very formative movie for me. Okay. And I was like, is this intentional? Am I supposed to be thinking of Will Friedell looking for a condom as like the whole movie? Because that was like a movie. It's on the 90s. I feel like it was like, wow, the guy from Boy Meets World is now searching for a condom. Um, and I just couldn't, couldn't believe that that was something they were trying to like call upon. But if you also watched that movie many times as a young person, then you probably were thinking of it too. Right. So the Trojan Trojan War the movie not to be confused with the Odyssey or Troy is a 19 97 team comedy starring, as you noted, Will Friedell, Jennifer Love Hewitt. And according to Wikipedia here, made only $309 in ticket sales because it played at two movie theaters in the United States. So I think once it like flip side, everyone else in the world has seen Spider-Man brand new day and you have seen Trojan War. I watched a lot of movies in the 90s. That's all I can say. Okay. I didn't know this was an obscure movie. I assumed everyone had seen it. I have not seen it. But I know my God context for it. Do they? This is the plot. This is the plot of the movie. Is that he meets John Love Hewitt and they want to have sex and he can't find a condom and he's going to all these different stores to get a condom, but he can't find one. And then like he meets a cyclops and he meets the sirens. Yeah. Okay. There's like an Odyssey like tale to it. Does anyone get turned into a pick? No, not that I recall. I also don't really remember the ending, but I don't think they ever have sex in the movie because it was like the 90s. And yeah, I thought of it the whole time. We'll come back to not having sex. Speaking of condoms. So there's we get no specifications on the biometric, like measure things. So I don't know how you can tell if it's if if a condom is used or not. So I don't know how that's enforced. It's a weird thought experiment that the movie begs you to partake in. Like you have to think about how would a biometric tracker that's embedded into your wrist be able to sense if you or woman were being penetrated with a condom on or if you or man are wearing one. Like what is the science there? And I regret having to ask this question publicly on a podcast. Well, sure, but let's keep going. So is masturbation allowed or like hand jobs allowed? They do at one point in the NYPD office show like a poster, a humorously illustrated poster of like what's allowed and what's not allowed. And seems pretty clear like all forms of oral sex are banned. They're on the strikeout poster. I at least saw a couple of them. But nothing about hand jobs. So I just these are gray areas. It does seem like and no absolutely no energy is devoted to the people trying to get around these areas, these, you know, in creative or humorous ways, much less the realities of what it would mean. The final thing that I would say is that what everyone at 7 p.m. is not already ready to go in this universe. Like at 7 p.m. people are like out in public and like throwing parties and celebrating. And I just don't understand why you wouldn't be like about to start the 100 meter dash, you know, totally. Also a part of the original conceit conceit is that Calum Turner is supposed to be proposing to his girlfriend on this night. Right. Why would you propose on the one night of the year you can have sex like and also the movie says it's not romantic. So the way that people were using their time on this evening. That's questionable. Well, I mean, it sets up the fact that Calum Turner also doesn't really understand what's going on. You know, he's a lost soul. He's not of, of this time. And that's why the other most ridiculous thing that happens in this movie, and his name is Owen, by the way, it's Owen and Ali, is that within 15 minutes of the movie starting. And before the clock hits 7 and everyone's allowed have sex for the next 12 hours, he is not quite dumped by his girlfriend, Maya Hawk, who he was going to propose to, because she wants to have sex with someone else other than him on in their building, in their building on the one night of year when sex is allowed. Right. This is unbelievable for a number of reasons, including that the person sitting opposite her is Calum Turner. So we did see a picture of the other person. I don't want to ruin it for everybody, but it is someone very handsome, who might be familiar with. It's a good, it's a good way to go later on. They're lots of good jokes. Okay, I do want to talk about Calum Turner, but let's talk about the flip side of everything that we just said. The premise is not believable and draws attention to your fact. Well, of course, it's not believable, but they just can't sell it. They try really hard. I think they, you know, make a good effort. It doesn't quite land. Everything else is pretty charming. And everything else is well-made. This is, I had a really, really great time. And we were talking about this on the Spider-Man episode of that experience when you go to a movie and you're like, "Wow, I had the best time in the world." And then the further you get from it, the more you remember the holes or the things that didn't quite add up. And because the film was so directed to your particular pleasure centers, it really lands. And that was the case for me. I walked out of this, like, this is the most charming, wonderful thing I've ever seen in some time. And it hits a lot of rom-com things, right, in my opinion. I think that "Calum Turner" and "Monica Bavaro" are excellent. Agreed. I have some notes on certain aspects of what's going on with "Calum Turner," but we'll get to it. The jokes are really funny. There was a couple times where I literally just, like, really laughed out loud. There was one scene where I was like, I don't know what's really going on here, but I find it absolutely hilarious. And I was like, just dying in my seat. I really enjoyed it. There's one scene in particular, I should say. And it's filmed actually in New York City in real places. And it has actually good soundtrack for once, which is unlike most other romantic comedies, which are like the leftovers of, you know, female centered, like, pop light that they couldn't place anywhere else. So they placed it in a romantic comedy. Well, to that point, the movie, basically, the second scene introduces Ali, "Monica Bavaro" at her job, where she sings for pharmaceutical commercials. She sings like well-known pop songs that have been rewritten for these commercials. Yeah. And it's a version of "Brave" by Sarah Bareilles. And it's really funny. It's really, really well done. And she sounds great. And they introduce it as, here is the bad song from a romantic comedy that is playing. And it's a little cheesy. And, you know, like, "Brave" is fantastic. But in this context, you're like, oh, no, they weren't even invented. They didn't even go get like a new song. And when it turns, it's really like, I laughed at me too. Yeah. I was like, oh, that's really smart. I mean, it's a clever way of like, inverting a well-known trope. Yes. And a well-known song. Yes. So it's annoying. And the movie knows what it's doing, like, on almost every front. It's very aware of the genre, very aware of what comes before it, and is kind of spending the time and the money to try to make everything work. So I'm with you. I had a really, really good time. Yeah. And as I was watching, this is both an indictment and a credit to the movie. I was thinking throughout the movie of like the different pieces where I was like trying to guess what I thought that the filmmakers were referencing. I was like, well, of course, I was thinking of, you know, Jennifer Love Hewitt. Yeah. Primarily. But I thought about her again, because one of the another songs included the movie is Only You by Yazoo, which is essential to canon hardly weight in the train station scene. And so I was like, thinking throughout, like, are they thinking of This from this movie that I love like I felt like I was
I was speaking the same language as the creators and particularly the writer. But at the same time, I was like, it's probably a bad sign that I'm thinking so much about all the reference points and not just like losing myself in the movie. But I think I was like a lover of romantic comedies and this day and age that really good ones are so few and far between. And I wouldn't say this is a really good one. But just like wanting to celebrate the genre with other people who love it as much as you do, I think it's part of being a fan at this point. And so I don't know if seeing a movie like that, you could avoid that experience anymore. - Yeah, I mean, what you just described are Easter eggs and there are Easter eggs not for a specific superhero movie, but instead for this genre that we know and love and are very protective of and are gonna try to build not quite a hall of fame, but an essential list for later on this episode with very strict rules because we believe in this stuff. So I think you're right. And I think some of it is that it is very hard in this day and age to make a brand new romantic comedy that stands on its own without any of the references because at this point, much like Spider-Man, it's burdened by all of our expectations and all of the, like not the fans service, but the fan acknowledgement it has to do. - Right, yeah, I mean, we're a generation like just so tied into Nancy Mayer's and Nora Efron, as mentioned before, it's like, their presence over the genre is so, so heavy that you can't not think about them whenever like a Rob Thomas, just like as an idea as mentioned. - Let's talk about Callum Turner. - Okay, I mean, I'm on the record on this. What did you think? - I liked spending time with him. - Yeah. - I felt the movie worked in part because he's so handsome and you're happy to spend so much time with him. I didn't think he was like so convincing as a lead, but I understand why he's a working successful actor and it's because he's so handsome and you would just wanna be around his smile. - I thought the American accent was very tough and verged into kind of fake mobster impression from time to time. - I felt like he was sort of his own version of like Danny Zuko and Grease, but like pizza man in New York. - Yeah, it's and I did spend some time in the movie thinking, okay, so why couldn't he just be British? And I guess that that brings in like some, you know, sort of the geopolitical arrangements and you'd have to establish that like anyone with a green card has a, you know, has to have a tracker or something and then you're just you're you're in hell once again. - Totally. - So easy to just to give an American an accent, but we're not there yet. - Totally, yeah, we're not there. Can I ask you a question before we go any further? Cause it's like it looms over this whole movie for me. I watch everything through like my New York goggles like obsessed with the city and which I was born and continue to live. Like I think the character doesn't work if he's not like some kind of New Yorker like because you would have to change so many fundamental things that we know about this character. So I don't know if that's just my bias, but I think to your answer your question, why couldn't he just be British? Well, then he couldn't own a pizza shop. I mean, it doesn't own a pizza shop. Like who is this guy? Yeah, well, who is this guy who owns a pizza shop to you? I'd love to know what you think was essentially New York about this character? Who is the most handsome man you've ever seen who gets dumped by Maya Hawk 20 minutes before they're allowed to have sex at an Omakase restaurant? I mean, there is a very funny joke within the joke within the movie that's meta and it features two well-known actors in cameos being like, why's he alone? This guy's so handsome. Like, what is it? Great question. Even the movie knows, and that was one where the movies trying to make things fit together in a way that was amusing to me, but all I know about him is that he makes pizza that looks quite good and that quite incredibly handsome. Incredibly handsome. His mom is Molly Ringwald. He's an avid subway writer. Never getting into a taxi that guy. And he knows his neighbors. I don't think that Callum Turner in this role as Owen screamed New York, but I felt that the writing was so invested in the city of New York as a character. Whether that's succeeded, we can discuss. But even the breakup scene is like, you know, like delivered through this vessel of like, I live in a New York city building and I'm curious about my neighbor. And like, I see him in the elevator, you know what I mean? Sure. It felt very present to me, but I'm also obsessed with New York. So I don't know if that's my personal bias. I, I accept it. I'm not sure I sat there thinking this is the most American man that I've ever seen in my life. Well, I don't think I like Callum Turner. I think of a script though, like also with the Red Lighthouse and stuff. Have you ever been there? No, I haven't. That's because here. Yeah, that's because I live in Los Angeles and I'm not a true Upper West Side New Yorker like you. The other thing I wanted to mention about Callum Turner was the running because there is a tremendous amount of running in this movie, which, you know, it's structured. It's clever. It is right there in the title. It's one night only. It's not even a, it's not even a 24 hour movie. It's maybe like an 18 hour movie, maybe 13 though, I think it's us. Yeah, I though like the time and geography constraints are not realistic, but that's okay. So it's a 13 hour movie and he's got to get a lot of places and have a lot of adventures. So he is running through the streets of New York. And every time he ran, I thought to myself, we got to work on this run if we want to lock down James Bond. It was not a Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible level run. The ergonomics are just to say he locks the swiftness that we are familiar with from Tom Cruise. It's not tucked in, you know, we haven't gone to a running coach yet. And I got a little nervous for him in that moment. How much of it is his neck? He's got a thick neck. He's got a real football player, Thai body. Okay, but to me, it was more about the arms and the arms were going out almost like chicken dance as much as they were. And so it was his forward motion. Like I said, the ergonomics were not very efficient. So he's almost putting his elbows in like a circle situation. And he's not totally veering in his straight line. He's not tucked in, you know, he's would not win the 100 meter dash. No, he's a little all over the place. And listen, I look like a total goofball when I run. It's not a problem. And also maybe the new James Bond is not going to run, you know, maybe, maybe he's not that kind of action start. But I did have that moment sitting there where I thought to myself, this is not a James Bond run. So he locks the aerodynamic nest that we're hoping to find in all of our James bonds. Yeah. I think he can get there. But I do think he would need to like shed some pounds, not because I think he needs to lose weight. But I do think he looks like he's a running back and we need him to be more of like a point guard. Okay. Thank you for those sports references. On the flip side, he has one of the best, we'll call it like the romcom reaction shot. The appreciative, I think I'm falling in love with this person close up during Monica Babaro's solo of only you that I've ever seen. He's really, really, really good at the smile. And it just helps that he's dreamy, but they nailed those close ups. And that is a really under discussed part of a romantic comedy that he has down. That's a great point. He's very good at smiling, like very, very good at it. And it lights up his adorable little face. I mean, he is an interesting one where the ears, which the script makes, makes note of make him cute as well as incredibly James Bond level handsome, which the movie knows. Like the movie is using him. The movie makes jokes about how handsome he is. Like he is cast because of the way that he looks, and then isn't it funny that someone this handsome doesn't have a date for the one night a year where you can have sex. But I really, it really works. And those emotional moments he can kind of play, which I was surprised by. I think there's something also about him that's very non threatening, even though he's like so hot. Yeah. And whatnot, he doesn't feel like an imposing presence. He doesn't feel toxic. He, you know, there's like many high jinks throughout it. We're like, you know, this one woman, he meets her in the park and then she ends up zip tying his hands to the tree and she steals all his stuff. You kind of like feel bad for him and never think that like he would be the aggressor in that scene. And there's something about him that I think is also very true to particularly like Rob Combs of this century so far that felt like a familiar trope that also really works. Yeah. Also incredibly well matched with Monica Babaro who I just think is the most wonderful bluff in the world. She, she's got it. That haircut. I need to know who did the hair of this movie. I was, I was envious the entire time. Her highlights looked incredible. The cut was great. It like framed her face and her shoulders so well. Oh my God, I was just staring. I loved it. I mean, she's, she's very beautiful and very talented and she can sing as we learned in a complete unknown. She says she was, she just learned to sing for a complete unknown. She played Joan Bias. She was nominated for an Oscar. But she was wonderful in that. And so they make use of her singing in a very funny way in this and they make her just goofy enough that again to the Callum Turner point, you don't feel threatened by her. It was very early Sandra Bullock vibes to me.
And it was yes, and this is a person who doesn't quite have it together and clearly doesn't also she also does not have a date for her, you know, one night of passion a year, but she's also not a total mess, right? Right. It's and it's it's a good mix because I do feel like the romantic comedies in the past decade or two have kind of swung all the way from super aggressively together woman who can't find love to total mess of a woman who can't find love. And this to me was a happy-ish medium. Yeah, I agree to you. She's like a professional who's trying to find her way. Yes. And she has friends and she has standards and their their meet cute, which sets them on their path is that he buffs on her feet. And so and she is just like, no, thank you. I don't want anything to do with you. So she has she's not desperate. It makes sense. The standards and the and the setup at least as it speaks to two of them do work. And I just like watching her. I like her watching so much that I liked a climactic moment of romantic comedy that involves someone giving a live musical performance. I was wondering about that. But first she can sing, you know, and so much and I knew that already because of a complete unknown and much of my live singing allergy is the fear that someone's not going to land it, you know, and that the fear that we're all sitting there together in like a note gone wrong. And it's just it's too vulnerable for me. But I knew she could do it. And also she sings only you the Yazoo song, which is just a banger. Like great song, yeah, it's a really good song. Also, I think the way they introduced the music up top as a joke is sort of makes it easier. I would guess for someone like you, it doesn't like a musical number. Yeah. Um, she has like a hang up on this guy who what's his name? Noah's name in the movie. Ezra, excuse me, similar names. I thought the guy who played Ezra, his name is Charlie Gillespie. I've never seen him before. I thought he was so funny. He has like a performance that I found absolutely like mortifying, but intentionally so the musicians. Yeah. Yes. I absolutely loved that scene. I was dying. I was hilarious. And he's weird. He's perfect casting because he's playing a musician that she's had a long time crush on and she like almost gets her opportunity. And the whole time you're sitting there at this point, the sparks have flown between Callum Turner and but Monica Babaro between Owen and Ali in such a way that you're like, no, no, no, no, no, just have sex. So you can't cast another Callum Turner, ask person, right? It's got to be the total opposite. And someone who's willing to play into the comedy. And he does a great job. Yeah, he crushed that. I was dying. Um, the cameos. Yes. Really good. So many impressive. I was really wondering about a lot of them because you knew about you knew that the people were in the movie and you didn't know how they were going to be used or you were just like, oh, I was just kept being surprised to see people. And I was like, Oh, why are they here? Oh, they want to do this? Like, I was just really surprised. Who were who were your top cameos? And it's boiler. We've spoiled a lot of this movie at this point. And this is a podcast about a movie. So yeah, hopefully you see it. I mean, I think the just for my own personal kaleidoscope, the double cameo of ST Hyam and Zway as bouncers at a club really got me. I was like, as to you's acting now too, because a lot of Hyam famously acting and PTA movies. Um, that was surprising to me. And that was probably the biggest one. I guess the one that was the most surprising to me actually, or I guess the biggest one was probably Julia Fox. Because she had like an actual role in the movie. Yes. Um, playing the person who sets off calender's hunt for a condom. Um, so I guess those were the three where I was like, wow, okay. And the Julia Fox one comes early enough and is intentional enough that it signals to you like, oh, okay, they're, they're being funny. Like they, they've thought about this and they've thought about who they can have in here and they want you, um, to chuckle and to kind of play along with the metanus of all of it, which I think was a smart move. Uh, Lovar Burton was probably my favorite. Nice. Yeah. He's, he was great. He also had an actual role in the movie. Yes, exactly. Um, and you know, the Molly Ringwald and the, the throwbacks to all of the John Hughes comedy is, was great. Um, who else? King Princess, Nicholas Braun, who seems to show up in everything. Oh, Nicholas Braun was another good one. Yeah. Well, it was fun. It was an eye roll once you like, of course, he's in this movie. That makes sense. But he took exactly the right part. He was in it for just long enough. Uh, and then also some of the other people that Ali, uh, talks to you at that party, include one of Ben Marshall, who's one of the please don't destroy. Um, yes, young men. And I was excited to recognize one of the please don't destroy young men myself on my own. You watching a lot of Saturday night live. But I watched enough. I was like, Oh, okay, I'm not totally on the glacier yet. I can still pick up these cameos. Um, so that was great. A great use of stuff and, and a good range of ages and cultural references, which I appreciated. Do you want to do New York City? Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, I mean, it's just very president in the in the movie. I would love to know Travis Braun's connection to New York, like what? Like where he lived, how long he lived there, clearly very deeply tied to the city. I was following the subway routes very closely, curious about going to Brooklyn Bridge Park, though I did have like a really bad date during COVID in Brooklyn Bridge Park, which felt, which felt right with what was going on with his bad date. I don't remember this. I hope it wasn't that bad. I hope I, I think I probably didn't want to repeat it because it was so bad. Okay. Um, I was, but it was, you know, good humor, I suppose. Um, but the pizza that stood out the most to me is at the pizza place, Claremont pizza. Yes. The exterior shots that they show repeatedly in the movie are of the original famous raised pizza. Of course, that's the full title. I don't claim for it to be the original. I don't even know if it's famous, but it is famous to me. It is on 82nd and Columbus, and it was the site of my six birthday party. So I have known it intimately for a long time. I would love to know why they selected that pizza shop because I'm pretty sure they, they shot in most of the movie, the interiors on the sound stage or sound stages, but they clearly recreated it. I went back to like confirm with pictures and everything. It looks so much like it. And I don't know why of all the, you know, what it claims to be original famous for me is throughout New York. This was the shop. I don't know if it was like, you know, a location scout who was like, this would be a really good exterior and like we can easily rebuild that. I don't even know why they had to rebuild it. We can make it look like anything. But that pizza place that's live in Brent, free and many people's minds now. I will say that the structure of that particular pizza place while a maybe foundational to you is not like original in the sense that I thought it was a pizza place that I went to in Brooklyn Heights. For a while, just I mean, the interior is their pizza ovens on one side and booze on the other, you know, on this brick. And so I see your point and I love the consistency. Yeah, the detail of it. I was just like, this is really close to the original. Yeah, I will also say that I thought the pizza looked great. It did look good. It looked really good. Yeah, they spent and it was traditional New York style, but also slightly, I mean, I guess it's like a famous raise or a John's or that type of a shop. Yeah, the fan taste pizza. Do they, were they selling slices or just pizzas? I was assuming they were selling slices too, which didn't see it. Okay. Do you think that that's for sure? I think for sure. Yeah, I think so. Okay, you don't acknowledge. Well, I'm just asking pizza places in general. Just a different experience. I acknowledge both, but like for what Owen is doing, I think he's he's giving you slices too. Yeah. The last hour of the movie, they traveled to 15 different places in order to try to get a condom and be reunited. And that is obviously not geographically possible. That's sort of the collateral Michael man's Los Angeles, but moved to New York. That's okay. It's movie magic. Yeah, he was at 145th Street at his mom's house and then he was in Brooklyn Bridge Park. Those two are far apart. The beat doesn't run at night or on the weekend stuff. Yeah, they also. So you have to assume that this is happening in the summer because of when the sun is rising and setting, though the mandate and the one night only are not tied to the sun. They are tied to 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. But I will say that the sun rose like very, very early. It must have been June back to the soul stiffs, which then at this point, why don't you just give people, you know, sundown to well, you would want to give them even shorter. Yeah, you would want to do December, I guess you'd want to do the shortest day of the longest night of the year. And no one's thinking through this. I like it when people shoot in daylight. So it's fine that they chose this. The finale, they're downtown and then they have to make it back to the George Washington Bridge and to the Little Red Lighthouse. Yes, still within the hour. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, because she lives in the East Village, I believe. I think they even say that at some point in the movie. And then yes, they have to make it to like, you know, 180, whatever street and the Hudson River. So you got to get to cross town also like are the subways right?
running all night. - Yes, they're going to the movie. - And they say it's like a daytime schedule, but all night. - Well, I don't know, but they have the countdown clocks in the subway. - Yes. - In a place where you're getting off. - Which I thought was clever and good storytelling, but they didn't update the subway schedules. Were they gonna tell us whether they update the subway schedules? Because there's no way for the East Village if you got to get all the way over to a West Side Line and then up. - And then they have to get to this Red Lighthouse, this Little Red Lighthouse, which is a real place and which they filmed the finale. I thought was great. Again, film in real places, we can tell. Is, they still have like 30 minutes left? - Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Also, why would any production schedule that for that morning? Like, why would you do that to people? Like, work should be canceled. If the government has said, this is the one 12-hour period per year. And what you could have sex. Like, everyone should just be like, works canceled. I do feel that like they did try to address this, like the babysitter issue. And like, you can make a lot of money in that one night. - Right. - They need to address childcare. They need to address getting rid of work. - Sure. Well, there's just a lot of things that need to happen. - Married people are allowed to have sex. - Yeah. - So the married people take over the Pizzeria. And then they do say a couple times that there's a lot of filming on this day because there's no paparazzi. Because I guess the paparazzi are unmarried and need to go have sex. I agree with you that, and again, the production starts right at 7 a.m. So these people weren't using the most of their 12 hours. Maybe they're all married. Yeah, there are a lot of holes in the mint. - Yeah. - What did you think of the final decision of the ending and they're getting together, but not really getting together? - I liked it. I was very distracted while watching Monica Barbara on each new outfit she was wearing. So at the end, she was wearing a new white outfit. And I was just trying to take it all in. She looked great. I loved the slip dress at the beginning. Can't believe we haven't discussed it yet. I know you're interested in slip dresses right now. - Yeah. - She looked great at that brown one. The ending was good. I was glad I didn't end with a wedding in my other job talking about reality TV. I'm always advocating for like no weddings, lower the stakes. So I was glad that I just ended with sort of like the raison d'être for the movie which is sex. So that was good. - Well, after a fake ending where they make it to the lighthouse and they decide to not have sex and they make Monica Barbaro say the line, let what if we didn't let the mandate win? Which was tough. That was a setting I agree with you. - That was tough. And that was sort of leaning into what doesn't work about the movie at the crucial moment when they could have just had sex and then had a nice life together. And then our lesson could be that it is possible both to have sex and find someone that you love and the two do not have to be truly exclusive. Like the government in this movie has mandated to the American government. So I question that choice. And once again, this also sets up as the way the film ends which is the flash to one year later and the mandate has still not been repealed. I don't know what everybody was doing in the year but they were not resisting hard enough. And they're at home and the timers go off and they very leisurely wake their way into the bedroom. I just don't understand the time management. Why is there no primal instinct to just get in there right away? Also, what happens if you go abroad? Like, you know, if you go to a different country do the sensors still work? - I do think that the broadcast acknowledges that in other countries the governments have not given have not given this one night exception. And so I think that there are some troubles elsewhere. - I see, okay, it's a rising tide across the globe. - But I don't know about the technology. We don't know who built the technology. We don't know what tech company is monitoring this, what kickbacks they've received. You know, none of that is explored. - I like the detail that you got to choose your shape. Like if you could get to choose the shape of your biometric. - Okay. - Like it's like a tattoo. - Right. - I was like, okay, so the government doesn't want you to have sex as ever on one night per year. But they want you to have like some playfulness with your biometric tracker. Okay, noted. - Yeah, the ending just called back my attention to the problems, I think. But that doesn't, I was still smiling when they were together in the thing. And then there's a goofy dance number afterwards, which I also-- - Yeah, the goofiness was great. - I thought was very, very charming. So again, this movie has all of the tropes and essential elements of a rom-com nailed down, except for the one, but it's the big one. - Yeah. It's really, it almost like felt like the jokes made it get lost in its own ideas. 'Cause the jokes are funny. But the romance is just not there. The com is effective. - Yeah. - But I'm looking for way more rom, obviously. - Yes, that is a, that's a great segue into the next part of this podcast, which is building the 21st century romantic comedy canon. And what actually meets our standards. I don't know whether one night only is gonna go into it. I will-- - I think it's not. - I think it probably won't, but that doesn't mean that we didn't have a good time. - I have a good time. - I recommend it. - I recommend it. And I think it would be fun to go see it with friends. - Yeah. - A great. - And there is obviously a lot to argue about as we have just argued. So I don't think it's gonna go in. What is gonna go in? Well, let's set some ground rules. The first one is that this is the 21st century romantic comedy canon. So we are defining that as 2001 and to 2026. That means that Miss Congeniality released in 2000 is not eligible. I don't make the rules. That is the definition of the 21st century. I agree with you. I was delighted that you were starting in 2001. Thank you for being a purist. - You know, here we are now. So it's like a neat 25 year. - Sure. - Sure. - So, and it's been an interesting 25 years. And I think this is gonna be an interesting task for both of us because as you indicated, we are the children of Nora Efron and Nancy Myers. We were maybe not quite of age when Harry Met Sally was released in 1989, but we saw it many times. And when Harry Met Sally is kind of the start of the golden age of romantic comedies in our lifetime, you know, there's the old Hollywood era. And then there are many great ones released before, but 1989 and when Harry Met Sally sets forth a lot of big budgets, movie star led, like high box office sensations of a romantic comedy. So we are very, very attuned to the 90s versions and none of those are eligible. No, which is probably for the best for this exercise, right? Really makes us stretch and think about what should be in because those are also obvious. - Yes, and in our definition, the 90s romcoms are the heyday. So the films that we're working with from the last 25 years, there are some that are like the kind of the last vestiges and the last grasp of that traditional studio romcom with those stars. And then things get pretty dicey. It's been a rough 25 years for our beloved genre because after that kind of last gas, really until about 2007, 2008, when you still have Renee Zoeger and Sandra Bullock and Jennifer Anderson and Kate Hudson and Jennifer Lopez and Reese Witherspoon and Catherine Heigel, who was kind of the usher of the end. - Death moment to comedies, yeah. And Matthew McConaughey and Will Smith. We know all of these stars, but they're pretty concentrated in the first seven or eight years of the century. And then it just stops. And it doesn't just stop. There are a couple of things that happen. One, I think knocked up happens and kind of the brocom and the rise of Judd Apatow. And who is the lead of a romantic comedy because with the exception really of Will Smith or Hugh Grant, it was usually women, usually white women, who were the stars, which is not an endorsement. That's just an observation of the trend. - Yeah. - And so knocked up, switches it more to brocombs, switches it, and proves that that can be a success. And that also that men can be in these. And also what the balance of romance and comedy should be in these should change. Now, Adam Sandler has been doing his entire career and his ratio is way more comedy than romance and that works perfectly. So I'm not saying that knocked up, introduce that. But it's kind of when things start to turn, the other thing that starts happening is the ensemble comm. - Right. - He's just not that into you, Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve. Crazy stupid love, kind of fits in here.
kind of. Yeah, I think also those two polls like the Brocom and the ensemble come are interesting is the Brocom. First of all, you mentioned Adam Sandler and Judd Appetel and the same breath. Obviously they came up together and that's sort of the subject and funny people. But I think that's like really noteworthy that like Adam Sandler was doing this for men largely, but I really for everyone for a long time. And I love the Sandman and his movies. I think like Judd Appetel, I think sort of took a lot of the same DNA and like put it in a package that felt more palatable maybe for a different like makeup of the audience, but they are really tied together. So that's an interesting point, but I think the source of those movies that Adam Sandler movies and Judd Appetel movies like the jokes are bits. They're not situational whereas a lot of romcoms like the humor is like tied to whatever is going on. Right. I think that's not true of what Harry Matt Sally like you think about the scene and like the Met or you know some of the other like just like epic Billy Crystal Lions in particular. It's like him just like having bits or whatever, which is just, you know, such a testament to that movie. That's very different from a lot of the other movies I think we're going to talk about. And then with the Sitch the ensemble comes those just like aren't that funny. They have like a lot of the sheen and the pacing and like the, like the feeling of the romcoms that we love, but I don't think of like he's just not that into you as a funny movie. I think of it as a pretty sad movie. I mean, it is. And also like a sad reflection of a moment in our sociological culture where we were all just told, yeah, you just got to, you got to give up, um, move on. But, but they all kind of happened together and they're all successful enough that more things come out. Another interesting data point in that time is bridesmaids, which is a huge hit and does have aromance. Yes. But is secondary to the female friendship and like female ensemble aspect of it. And I think some people feel does it really even need the romcom element? Can't it just be about Kristen Wigg and my Rudolph finding their way back to each other? Right. I don't even think of it as a romcom. I just think of it. Yeah, exactly. But but that is also a movie that uses a lot of female movie stars and on the rise, female movie stars, which is kind of the playbook for romantic comedies for a long time and makes a ton of money. And so then everyone's trying to make the next bridesmaids with their female movie stars, which means that they're not really making romantic comedies. Other things happen around this time, which is superheroes and really the and Netflix. And so the kind of the middle of the box office completely disappears at the same time. The industry is trying to make all movies super international. And you know, comedies are not as translatable internationally as a giant superhero movie, even though I kind of disagree with that. But that's what studios think. And it just it all kind of crashes. And so there's a great Amy Nicholson piece that ran in 2014. It's called the death of the romcom, which is reflecting what has already happened. And she notes in it that in 2013, there was not one romantic comedy in the top 50 films, not even in the top 100. And it's not just that the romantic comedies weren't performing at the box office, that in 2013, the soul boy meets girl matrimony comedy was unceremoniously dumped into theaters by big indie Lionsgate and limped to number 101 on the chart. And her premise, the premise of the piece, which investigates and talks to a lot of people, it's really well reported. I recommend that everyone read it is, you know, it's the same. It's a lot of different factors. It's the audiences. It's the distribution systems. It is like international box office. It is, you know, competition. It's that the budgets of the economics of movies, right? And I think it identifies how do you know the James L. Brooks infamous 2010 romantic comedy starring Reese Witherspoon among others that just didn't work. And it's not. It doesn't work. It doesn't work, but you get enough of those and those become expensive enough as the economics of the movies are changing as they always are. And people just stop making them. But I, 2013, 2014 is like a real stopping point. And they just do not make studio movies anymore. And so what we've gotten in the last 12 years, literally half of the eligibility time for this list is very different. And not as widely seen and sometimes follows the rules, but also is kind of trying to to change up a formula that wasn't really working. And so that's the interesting part of this is that we can talk about what our definition of a romantic comedy is. But I still do find myself gravitating towards the very classical definition. They don't really, they, that doesn't make sense anymore for people to make. Like that's been done. That's been done. To your point about one night only and like the Easter eggs, the only thing that is left to do is make references to it. So I may have to be more flexible about my definition in this exercise, but I'm not very good at being flexible. I think we've talked about this on jam session. A lot of the best rom-com ideas are also just now on TV. Yeah. And I actually felt this way a little bit of one night only, like, would this have been a better idea as a TV show? Because it clearly had so many ideas in the sort of like travel log piece of it, the obviously piece of it. Like is that better done over the course of like eight episodes than in 146 or an hour and 46 minutes? And I maybe it lets you experiment with tone a bit more and be a little bit looser and just a bit more messed up in a way. I think this movie is really just trying to skate over all of the complications that its premise presents because it wants you to have a fun time at the movies, which it is until you remember that sex is legally planned by the federal government and everyone has sensors in their body. You're right. It's intermountable. But the other thing that lacks is like actually good friends. We did this exercise at Grantland like a while ago. I'm sure it'll come up here. A hallmark of all the best rom-coms is like a really great friend who is there to help like work out intermonologue stuff. I mean, all of the greats have that, right? Like, Carrie Fisher says I hope that's famous for inherent salias. She is for Princess Leia, at least in my home. And, you know, that's really lacking in one I don't need to and I feel like it's hard. It seems like it's hard to make space for that kind of thing in movies now. Okay. Let's enumerate our criteria for a romantic comedy. I feel very strongly about my structural definition. Okay. And this may come back to bite me in the ass specifically because some of my favorite movies don't meet it. But I guess it's a bad idea to be a very strict traditionalist in any forms certainly in legislature, but also when making this canon. But I guess I'm you need some place to start from. Okay. And this is a made up list. So my structural definition is that it's two people who are opposed at the beginning of a film and they wind up together at the very end. Okay. If they get together halfway through and then they have some like emotional setbacks and they're not sure whether they can trust each other, that's a different genre. It doesn't mean like bad. It's just a different genre. If someone dies, it's a different genre. If someone is a dragon or whatever, that's a different genre. I hear it's very popular. This is going to be controversial, but I don't think that we have any animated examples on our list. So that one is not just a different genre. That's just not an area where we are experts. And so there's not a huge tradition of adult animated romantic comedies, at least in a box office space. And so we're not considering them for this. And I'm sure people are going to yell, but I'm sure people are going to yell a lot. Do you have anything else you want to add in terms of the structural definition? Can I just throw a couple of ways at you that I'm like wondering how you think of them? Sure. The breakup starring Vince Vaughan. Don't spoil it. I put it on the long list. We're going to talk about it. Yeah. I don't know who's going to be on it. Okay. Sorry. Yes. Listen here. When I am in control of the document, everyone's comments and concerns are added to the document, including yours. Okay. I'm following your lead. Carry on. So that's that's the textbook structural definition. Then obviously personal tastes and preferences are going to come into play here. And so here's something I feel very strongly about. And you can push back, but I think that this is an adult's only space. I think that team porn. I'm sorry. Is it porn? Well, not one night only because it's illegal. They don't even touch porn. There's like not even a reference that porn exists that I remember. Maybe they do. Maybe there's a pass. I don't think they do it because they don't talk about masturbation either, but it is like number one. They don't talk about what happened. What happens if the condom breaks? No conversation about that either. Okay. Anyway, it was too top of mind. 'Cause Calum Turner was practicing with a glove. Sure. That was funny. That was good physical comedy. Okay, so I just think teen movies are different. Yes. Yes, completely agree. I think if you have to ask, is this a teen movie or a romcom?
or is this a sports movie or a rom-com? It is not a rom-com. - Exactly. Is this an action movie or a rom-com is a similar one? There are many movies that have a romance, but are they leading as a romantic comedy? Is the question that we're trying to identify? So for me, I'm particular about the premise, which is similar to what you're saying, is the premise that needs to be specific to the real world and also not confusing in terms of other genre designations. - Right, right. - So the premise can be a moral or a moral. I'm thinking of while you were sleeping, I'm thinking of if you've got mail, those are not eligible because they were released in the '90s, but they're cortexed. But for example, Kate and Leopold, which is when it's Meg Ryan falls in love with Hugh Jackman, who came from the past. Is that right? - Yeah, I believe so. - That's a little too romanticy, you know? That's a different, and what we're dealing with in whether or not they can be together is more about time and space and metaphysics than it is about how people meet and interact in the real world. - Sure, so like this also eliminates enchanted with Amy Adams and Patrick Dempsey. - Yes. - And James Marsden. - Yes, we don't have musicals on this. I don't think we have many musical sequences, but I think of enchanted as musical first. It's your question of is it a rom-com or is it a musical? - Sure. - Sure, right. There's just one music-motivated movie that I can't wait to discuss. - I mean, it is also enchanted as Cinderella, more or less, isn't it? - Yeah, but like with some jokes about modern life and Amy Adams. - And it is a musical because working girl is also Cinderella, but I do think that it is romantic comedy. And, but it's the '80s, so it doesn't matter for this. - So, I agree with you. - You've added really great friends, which I think is important. That is a, that's a key. - It's a huge one. - Yeah. - It's a really big one. And I think that we will have that reinforce throughout this. - Right. And then my last qualification is time and money spent. If you have fake movie stars, if you have people who can't hang, if you've, if you've miscast this, it's weak and tell. If you're using a green screen of a famous bridge, we can tell. And which has happened in many movies that we're gonna discuss, but not one night only. I will say they use the real bridge and I give them credit for that. But, you know, Nora Efron and Nancy Myers are very specific examples where they write their scripts and direct most of their movies themselves. And they are like complete, they are a tourist, right? They are a specific world that these people imagine. And not most romantic comedies, and especially most studio romantic comedies, art are not made that way. The script and the director are often very different. And so the expression, the writing and the expression of the world are slightly more divided than in Nora Efron and Nancy Myers. But it is really essential to the text, no matter, no matter who's writing and directing. And if you're doing a lazy version, it takes away from the movie. - It's evident, yeah. - Are do you feel good about this? Do you feel good about our long list? Is there anything? - Yeah! - I added all your suggestions. Do you think we're clear anything else you wanna say? - Well, I just wanna say like one other genre, I feel like has permeated this century is like, is the combination of sex and the city and girls. And I think those have a lot of motivation or like have a lot of similar motivation and interest as romantic comedy, but of course their TV shows, so it's a slightly different conversation. But those are also ultimately about friends. - Yes. - Friends are the thing. And I think that like people who love romantic comedies I think frequently also love those two television shows. And I think they appeal to similar senses but they're not like in the conversation in the same way. But I think it's worth mentioning them 'cause they're so tied to this genre. - And it's an important point because sex in the city was turned into a movie and a sequel, both of which would be eligible for this. I don't have sex in the city too on the long list because it is not good. And I don't have sex in the city, the film on the long list because I do think that it is a friend's first movie. I think it's a different genre. And there is even in that movie after the wedding's canceled and they go to Mexico and then she hires Jennifer Hudson and it's labels and love and whatever. I've seen this movie like a thousand times. I'm not above the movie. - It's a great movie. - But when she and big spoiler alert, finally do get married, they're at the courthouse and then they have their nice moment but the real emotional moment of that movie is when he swings the door open at the courthouse and her friends are there. And they all just squeal together and it's lovely and wonderful. - So I-- - I just wanted to acknowledge-- - Yeah. - It's like friends of the pod, friends of a genre. It's more friends of the genre. It's like spiritually tied but ineligible for this exercise. - Yes. Okay. So here's what we'll do. I'm just going to go through the long list. There's some that we can just be like, "No, we don't want to include this." And some we can say, "Yes, this is essential." This is a long list that you and I brainstorm together. We will forget things once again. This is our personal but also legally binding canon and we have explained our criteria. They may be slightly different than yours. That said, we've watched a lot of these. So here we go. Number one that I put on Bridget Jones Diary 2001 adapted from the Helen Fielding novel which was inspired by Pride and Prejudice. - On a saleable yes. - Okay. - Wonderful movie. - Yes, absolutely. - I mean, it fits everything that you've listed and it's also an incredibly wonderful special movie and a great book. - Stars Renee Zellweger who was nominated for Best Actress for this performance. It's written by several people but Richard Curtis wrote it and he created, he wrote for Weddings and a Funeral. He created Love Actually, which I also don't think is eligible. That's an ensemble, not a rom ensemble. Many of those people don't find love at all especially. - But it's a sad movie. So it's a really sad movie about how our workplaces are not professional and you can't trust Alan Rickman even if you want to. - So we are aware that he also made Notting Hill's from 1999. - Yes, right. - I mean, one of the probably still in my top three romantic comedies. - Oh, definitely. - It's so good. I mean, it's so it's so good. I feel warm thinking about it. - Sure, but that's 1999. He also wrote the film yesterday, you know about that one? - Of course, yeah. - Did you see it? - I love the music of The Beatles. - But what if someone else wrote it and no one or what is it? What if no one else remembered the music of The Beatles? - Yeah, I think that's what it was. - I didn't see it. No. - It's pretty outrageous. Okay, pretension misses. - Pretty Jones diary. - And absolutely. - Yes. - Colin's, Colin first as Mr. Darcy's. I like you just the way you are speech was a literal reading at my wedding. So we will move on. Okay, this is an interesting one, legally blonde. Also, 2001. Reese Witherspoon, Luke Wilson, Harvard. Harvard Law, I should say. - I'm going with no. - Say more. - Well, she is opposed with, I would say Warren. Is that his name, the man he wants she wants to marry? - That's his name, isn't it? - Yes. - And they do not end up together at the end. She does find her way to Luke Wilson. They're never really opposed. He's sort of more bemused by her. - That's true. - And it is as much about Al finding herself. - Yes. - And it's about Al finding herself. And also the affirmation of her lifestyle and caring about your hair matters because a perm unlocks the case. So I think this is much more about one woman's journey from I accept Ulyss to informed. And she happens to find love along the way. And on the friend's point, she makes a good friend along the way in Jennifer Coolidge. But she's not sort of that rider die friend who helps you understand the character. She's another project, she's another case. - Well, but then she does give the character a purpose. And she gives the character, you know, the character has not really been paying attention to the people around her except for sorority purposes. Oh, I accept it. I think you're right. It's more about Reese Witherspoon as L Woods. - Yes, it's really, and honestly, one of our great courtroom dramas, courtroom comedies, how about that? But the perm reveal. - Oh, it's so good. - Okay. - I mean, Ally Landrie, she's wonderful. It's just, it's a great movie, Victor Garber. We love it. - Okay. - All right. It's not a romantic movie. - It's not going in the kitchen. Okay. The wedding planner, 2001, Jennifer Lopez, Matthew McConaughey. - This is one of my favorite movies. I like, as we talk about it, I feel like we're talking about a cute boy. I'm like, I love the movie the way I love a cute boy. - What speaks to you about it? I put this on the long list because I knew you felt this way. And this is also Jennifer Lopez was a sensation in this, this era for her romantic movies. Some of them with Ben Affleck, which were not as successful. And the wedding planner, which was pretty successful. - Yeah. Yes, and then I think the third and that has made him in hadn't with, with Ray Feins, which I think did make more, make a lot of money, but leaves a bad taste in the mouth. - Yeah. - Yes, not good. - Okay. - The wedding planner. This is my favorite Matthew McConaughey. It is definitely pretty hair transformation. - Okay. - He's wearing a great thin blue sweater in it, like that I just can think of very fondly.
Um, I think one thing that's great about this movie is that Bridget Wilson is very, very likable. So at no point are you rooting for like this woman to like take down another woman, even though you might like lean in that direction, it's everyone in it is a joy. It's a great Judy Greer. She's like, uh, totally hysterical in it as the number two wedding planner in this firm. And it is just really charming. Also, I think it's a great San Francisco movie. And we have, we talked about how like, you know, the place really matters. Yes. They do San Francisco well. They do wine country well. It introduces Dr Alex Karev, which is very important to culture. It's a great family reference for those of you who use the Massimo Justin Chambers. Um, the scene with the peanut M&Ms where they meet and you can tell that they're in love. So Matthew McConaughey is someone who's getting married and using Jennifer Lopez's wedding planner services, but he doesn't know. Yes. When they have this park, it's, is the golden gate bridge in the, is that in the full house part? It's supposed to be in the park. It's in the park. Uh, that's a different park. That's almost square. I think this is in supposed to be in golden gate park. So you can't see it. No. Okay. Which is great. So some money. Okay. I'm trying to pretend. I guess so. I mean, I would like to see it. Um, did you do a bunch of voicemails for Isabel? I started it. Okay. Well, yeah. And that's the problem there. That to me is, I guess, it's not a romantic comedy because it doesn't start with them being opposed. Um, it starts with a terminal illness, which I was not expecting. Anyway, they also use green screen golden gate bridge. Okay. Wedding planner is going in for you, Juliette Whitman. What do you say? We need, yes, we need a JLo and a McConaughey. And I, well, go ahead. They end up together. They, you know, and there's the trials of tribulations. They do end up together. Okay. She's mad at him throughout the movie. And he's sort of like it rightfully so. Right. It's your point. It's a moral. But I don't know. It's, it fits the bill. I'm curious how many wedding related romantic comedies we will end up with at the end because this becomes out its own genre. Okay. Next, my big fat Greek wedding speaking of 2002. This star is Neavardolus John Corbett. So this has to go in because this was an absolute sensation. This made $241 million domestic in the US. It is like in one of my high school teachers. So it was like Lube Lurch. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's huge. I feel like Neavardolus became a household name. Yes. I, they're not opposed, but they are not married at the beginning of this. And it is about all the things that are going to keep them from getting married. And can they make it to getting married. And spoiler alert, they do. So I think structurally, we're on safe ground here. I agree with you. And I think just like culturally significance and amount of money made huge has to go in. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Here's another one. Okay. 2002 sweet home Alabama. Reese Witherspoon is a fashion designer. And she wants to marry Patrick Dempsey because he's JFK Jr. but with a different name. And Candace Bergen is his mom. And how lucky is he? Unfortunately, she has not finalized her divorce with Josh Lucas, who is back home in Alabama. And so they must all go home to finalize the divorce. But then some some feelings are revealed. I've seen this movie a tremendous amount of times. I don't think that that makes it good. It did make $180 million, which is a lot of money. This is Reese Witherspoon really ascending. This movie is great. I don't even know why you have any trump edition about like admitting to liking this. We don't know how that was like one of the most charming movies. I really have like ever seen also a lot of people we love. You didn't even mention that Ethan Embery is on this movie. Yeah. One of his great performances in this century. Okay. It also has a great Melanie Linsky as her best friend, right? Who's still living back in former best friend, I guess. She's still living in Alabama. It's her mounts are really cheesy, like repeated motif about lightning in a bottle. We're we're able to get past that. I was going to say this, the lightning, the bottle is one of the arguments for putting in the romantic comedy the 21st century canon because you need to have a couple of facts or scenes or setups in a romantic comedy that you you think of every single time you encounter them in the wild. It's where it's where I learned really about the mechanics of lightning in a bottle. And so now anytime I think about lightning hitting Santa, just lightning striking in general. I'm like, oh, I wonder whether it will make a sculpture that Josh Lucas can dig up from the sand. And then the other one is shutting down Tiffany's in order to propose, which Patrick Dempsey's character does at the beginning of the film. And I don't know that many people who have done it, but anytime it comes up, I don't know anyone who's done it. I don't know why I said that many people. I was gonna be like, wow. I think it also does something that we like, which is like it has these small easter eggs. Yeah. The Tiffany's thing makes me think of the scene in sleepless in Seattle when they go to Tiffany's and like eight is too few, tennis to 12 is too many. You know, Tiffany's is part of the romcom like the building or romcom. It's part of it. So it does that well. Okay. It picks and chooses other small things. It's a great movie. Okay. It also has reenactors in it. How many great romcoms have civil war reenactors in it? Well, I don't know whether they're reenacting the version of history that we would like to see at whatever I can go in. How to lose a guy in 10 days, 2003, like the biggest we don't there's no limit here on the number that we can put in. That's what differs differentiates this from a hall of fame. But if we only had five spots, even I think that how to lose a guy in 10 days would go on there. I think it's iconic and canonical. Yes. That said, I don't like it that much. I don't like the Kate Hudson performance of her. It's not really her fault. But first of all, this is you know, kind of shortly after she really blows up with almost famous and a few years later. And so she's sort of like riding this new wave of fame, even though she's obviously famous as Goldie Hans Daughter among other things. And it's sort of like a pathetic performance. The character is sort of pathetic of like the things that she does to prove her point. And it's one of these movies that I think is like kind of gross for women, even even though it's like a movie for women. And so I just don't really like it very much. It is very retrograde when you watch it back and also you think about how old you and I were when we first saw this. And it does those so many, it's set to precedent for so many romantic comedies. She is a writer at a women's magazine. And you know, you have Judy Greer as the best friend once again. And you've got like the the yellow dress that becomes like the Halloween costume and the reference point. And the next game, there are a lot of memes and things within it that are incredibly sticky if they even even if they make you feel bad, which and then where does she go? She writes the column at the end. And then they're on the side of a real bridge. Maybe this should be the only litmus test. It's like, do you have a real bridge or a fake bridge? If there's a real bridge, you can be in the canon. If it's fake, you're out. Anyway, they reunite on the side. I believe the Brooklyn Bridge could be Manhattan. And they fall in love. I it's got to go in. This is. It's got to go in. Yeah, I agree. I ask for more from the men in your life. Something's got to give to also 2003 written and directed by Nancy Myers. I mean, one of the greatest movies of our lifetime. It was on our 25 for 25 list. So it's great. Yes. I made a lot of money. $124 million domestic. Also, you know, is about someone over the age of 40. So that's very exciting and pretty rare on this list. Great writing. I think the most influential of her production designs and clearly inspired coastal grandma, among other TikTok trends. Of course. Yeah. You know, and Jack Nicholson, and anytime someone is not picking Kiana Reeves is a level of romcom wizardry. It's really hard to put everyone in a situation where the audience is not rooting for Kiana Reeves, who's a doctor in the Hamptons. I know. But they figured it a nice one. Okay. Really get really, really good. Okay. That one's going in. Under the Tuscan sun. This one is a little bit closer to the legally blonde. I agree with you. I think that it's not going in. I mean, it is culturally influential. And under the Tuscan sun is a shorthand for a woman finding her own and also and through some home renovation. Usually right. And so there is a romance. And there's also heartbreak at the beginning and the middle of the movie. But I agree. Great. A great movie. A great reference. A great framework for life. Once you can get past the cheating on the divorce, not in the canon. We've covered several movies now that include actors from Grayson and me. There's more to come. I just want to say this is probably why I love Grayson and me so much. Okay. Yeah. Tied to the genre. 13 going on 30, 2004. Speak on it as a teen movie. This is a teen pretending to be an adult. This is big for 2.0. It's a fun movie. It's got the Michael Jackson thriller.
dance number. There's a sequel coming. But this is not a romcom. It has a romance. But again, this is about a woman like a young girl finding her way. I think that's right. I think we're going to get a lot of blowback for that. And we obviously, you and I are very pro Jennifer Garner. Um, it's an understatement. Yeah. I, but I agree. I like Ruffalo as well. Sure. It's a great movie. Yeah. Okay. It's not a romcom. Uh-oh. Okay. I agree. I agree. Pitch 2005. Don't quote classic romcom. Absolutely. Yes. It's so, so good. I think it's my favorite well smith movie. He's so funny in it. His physical comedy is really good. It's definitely like when I think of even Mendes movies, I think of Hitch. Like I feel like this is like just a cultural touchstone recently covered on the rewatchables. Yes. Great, great movie. Um, and also one thing it does really well, which not some movies attempt is it basically is two romances that they're trying to land at the same time. And it's successful. Both are sort of unexpected. Obviously, the even Mendes will smith one is, is the main one. But um, Amber Valetta and Kevin James is great too. And like the dancing scene, I just think of and, and smile. It's a great movie. Does the fact that it's two couples? So that does qualify it or does it just make it double romcom? I'm, I'm being devil's advocate here. Sure. I think I can easily point to one Harry Metzali, which is also two couples. Sure. I didn't just qualify that. Sure. It's no problem. Okay. That's great. It does also made $179 million domestically, which is a lot of money. It's so good. Yeah. I just think I'm a big fan of classic timeless movie. Also, it's, you know, spawned many memes. Again, it's influential. Okay. Yes. Going in. This is an interesting one. And also related to the question I just asked you, wedding crashers, 2005. I think this stretches the limits, but it's a yes for me. I think it also stretches the limits and is a hugely influential movie and, and also incredibly successful made $209 million. But there is, it's about friendship too, you know. Yes, it is absolutely. And it is about the castive characters and they're not really opposed at any point. Rachel McGatams has engaged. Sure. And Owen Wilson is just like has lied his way into the family vacation. Right. So they're sort of sort of opposed, but like the opposing force is really Bradley Cooper. And Christopher walk in. If this is not a wedding set movie, does it make it more? And they're just, there's con men. Yeah, they're con men. Is this more or less of a romantic comedy? I think almost more. I agree. Which is interesting. I guess the bones are there. Okay. We'll take it. I think the bones are there. Okay. And it's, I love, I miss the era like, you know, in 2005 to 2010, where people were quoting the rules from wedding crashing like frequently. Yeah. What are the rules? Do you remember them? No, I don't, because I lost my mind. But like, you know, it'd be like number, whatever, play like a champion or like, yeah, just like, I just loved that era. This movie was a force for good. That's, that's what I'll say. Okay. It can go in. The breakup 2006. Vince Vaughan and Jennifer Aniston. And it is about a couple who gets together and then breaks up. It is, that's, the premise is that it's not a romantic comedy. The premise is what happens after the romantic comedy. It is using everything that we know and expect in a romantic comedy to watch this other movie, which is like, sort of a comedy. But this is the other thing. It's not very funny. It's sad. Yeah. There's the one funny scene. Do you like the singing scene in this movie? Because it's like supposed to be awkward. Yeah. No. I don't like that. I think of it frequently. Okay. You're gonna say, come, come, come. I don't think, come, come. Yes. It's a great scene. I do not think that this is a romantic comedy. But I thought it was an interesting experiment at the time. I didn't like it at the time. Because I was like, this isn't a rom-com. I thought I was seeing a rom-com. Yeah. But I do think it's like, it's successful in trying to subvert expectations. Made a tremendous amount of money. $118 million. That's, that's a lot. I grew with you. I don't think that according to our structural definition, it is romantic comedy. So it's not going in. The next is on the list because of you, Julia Libman, the holiday directed and written by Nancy Myers 2006. Would you like to make your case? Yeah. I know you do. This is a tough one too, to make the case. This also stretches the outer limits. And I'm open to your feedback, Amanda. But here's the case for it to be in. It is two women in parallel who are going through like, you know, relationship crises who go to another location where by all accounts, they should not be getting into another relationship. But they both meet someone with whom they're not necessarily, well, it can't really be as a case. They are sort of opposed at the beginning at least because it's like she's annoyed. She's just sort of harried in general, although who would be, who would be annoyed when that beautiful law shows up? Yeah, it's not really that annoyed. Yeah. And they're not opposed with time. They're opposed of time. And then Kate Winslet is still sort of in love with Rufus Soule when Jack Black is falling for her. And so he says to her in a black master starring Robert De Niro or featuring Robert De Niro. It shouldn't. Both of these are like relationships that shouldn't be. And then they end up working. So it builds to the happily ever after. But I do think these are more like women on a journey movies than they are. Women on a journey movie and also they, this movie is not as successful in theaters as Nancy Myers's other movies, but it has been reclaimed as a Christmas special because it does happen at Christmas. But that a Christmas movie is not necessarily a romantic comedy. So I think that this is a different genre. I think this is women finding themselves and also Mr. Napkinhead at Christmas. So that's controversial, but that's how it goes. The next one is going to be really tough, but I wanted to make my case to you. Okay. So the Devil Wars Prada 2006, which I traditionally have gotten annoyed with people who have described the Devil Wars Prada as a romantic comedy because it's not a romantic comedy. It's just a movie that focuses on women. And it's true that there are very few of those. But I was thinking about it recently. And I'm like, well, what if the romance is between Miranda and Andy? Yeah. And they find each other and they find a moment at the end. But even then, they come together and then Andy goes on her way. So really there's Devil Wars Prada 2 would be the romantic comedy. And it's a times a bit of a downer. Don't worry about the product too. Yeah. I don't think it quite fits. But it has this, it's a workplace comedy. Okay. Which is important. Women who, yeah, and it is also ladies finding themselves. Yeah. I said that. Okay. Well, I tried. I love the original Devil Wars Prada very much. It's great. Okay. All right. We're going to move through these knocked up 2007. This is not our favorite romantic comedy. But I think it's so essential. Yeah. It's like it has to be in. I mean, there's just the basic point that these two people would not end up together. Nor would this situation pan out the way that it does in the film. Sure. Sure. Because it almost feels more akin to one night only. And it's set up that it does to like almost everything else in the real world. It's true. But since it's only one, you know, one couple as opposed to the entire United States, then you don't really need to worry about why they aren't just terminating the pregnancy and moving on. Anyway, also we'll say I love Seth Rogan and like he is very charming in this. He's a great actor. He's a charming human. He's a charming actor. He's great. And like it did sort of this. I think that he is like as big as some of the other people we've mentioned in terms of romcoms because obviously because of the dread appetite. And like this is sort of his main romcom. I agree. And it's it's a big deal and it is so influential in movies and also in the in the arc of the romantic comedy. So we'll put it in the next one. So one thing I want to introduce to you for Hall of Fame's we pick 10 and then we pick one one special blue film, which is just a personal endorsement, which we don't have number limits on this candid, but we could also do one personal endorsement. But at first, I'd like to offer you the chance to make the case for your beloved music and lyrics. Well, I don't know why I need to make the case because it clearly is a romcom. Are you saying because it's not good? Well, we are making the canon of the romantic comedies that we feel are essential of the last 25 years. Okay. Well, this is definitely one of them. I mean, it's funny. We actually maybe should talk more about Drew Barrymore like do we have 51st dates on here? Um, we don't. Do you want to put it on? I don't know, but I'm just thinking about Drew Barrymore and the sit-and-man. I mean, there's the wedding singer. Right there. But what here is the wedding singer? The wedding singer is 90s. Okay. So that's out 51st Bates. So that's the 2000s, isn't it? It is. I believe it's 2006. That's a depressed so one though. I don't think that one should be it's 2004. And I agree that I didn't put it on the list because quality
does factor what we're doing here. Go ahead. I feel Music and lyrics is the high quality movie that I had at one point in my life purchased from the Apple store and they're forced to carry around on my phone every single day. Music and lyrics, if you haven't seen it, stars Hugh Grant as a former pop star who is just looking to make any dollar he can. So he will go on the nostalgia driven like ultimate fighter shows for formerly famous people. He was basically supposed to have been like WAM and then he is writing a song for a new young pop star like as if it was like Ariana Grande and he can't write lyrics. He can only write melodies so so he's somehow paired up with Drew Barrymore. I won't get into the specifics but it includes watering plants and a plastic plant and they can't stand each other but he needs her to write the lyrics for this song and so they end up falling for each other while writing the song way back to you. And I don't know what doesn't sound good about that Amanda. He explains music to her. He tells her about Smoky Robinson over coffee in the West Village. The New York geography makes no sense. It is a very 2007 movie featuring someone from everybody loves Raymond and somebody from third rock from the sun and of course Drew Barrymore and Hugh Grant. I don't know. I think this is a great great movie. This might be your blue because if we're going to include one film written and directed by Mark Lawrence then it should be two weeks notice which came out in 2002 and stars Hugh Grant and Sandra Bullock and which you and I have a real soft spot for. Yeah. Even though it features incredibly bad office politics and also cameos by a certain president. So this music and lyrics is going to be your blue and we have a lot more to get through so we're going to we're going to keep moving fast. 27 dresses, Catherine Hygol, 2008. It's in I don't like this movie. I do also find it a little bit depressing. It's a woman who is kind of down on her luck and it's the always a bridesmaid never a bride a old idiom that we should eradicate from our language quite literally but it's a good idea for a movie and it was it was pretty successful and it gets referenced a lot. This is also you need a Catherine Hygol in the mix because as Catherine Hygol's star rises in the world of romantic comedies so do the rise of all the other movies doing better at the bar's office. That's not fair. She does a couple but she's kind of the last she's the the sign of of trouble to come. Definitely maybe 2008. I have to tell you. Yeah. I never finished this movie. So you don't know who is her mom and I don't know who he passed. Yeah. This is the Abigail Brezzlin era. I think I put this on the short list because Ryan Reynolds is the star and it's Ryan Reynolds telling his daughter the story of how he met her mother but also telling her about three previous relationships he had in inappropriate detail. One of those relationships is Rachel Weiss who's a political journalist in New York magazine and Rachel Weiss is my hero and one of the more loveful person people in the world to me. So I just remember it because of this and but I think it doesn't meet the structural definitions and also you don't know how it ends and it ends frankly annoyingly. Okay. For getting you want to tell me. I mean, I've been waiting since 2008 to find out. No, I think that there are some things that should remain a surprise to you. You know. Okay. For getting a ceremonial 2008. Excellent movie. Obviously a Rob come. Yes. I think that this is a yes. So and this is this is a yes. This is the movie that Craig Horlbeck always cites as incredibly important to his generation which is slightly younger than ours. Sure. But this brought this brought some new people in to a dying genre. It's a great movie. Yeah. Jason Seagull. Who doesn't love Mila Kunis. It's really good. The proposal 2009 Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds. She's a publisher. She's a publisher. He's a she's an editor and he's the assistant. Right. Great movie featuring Betty White, Craig T Nelson, Mary St. Virgin, great cast. Really good. Also Oscar from the office. I believe great movie. And they need to get married because she's a green card. She needs a green card. Do you know how much money this movie made? No. $164 million. That is a tremendous amount of money domestic for a romantic comedy. This is never been one of my movies. But I do think that it's the last box office sensation and other people seem to enjoy it. And we didn't put definitely maybe in so she would have we should have Ryan Reynolds on it. I agree with you. I think that also it's a good reminder of like the star power of Sandra Bullock. Yes. I think they take for granted. Yeah. But like remember when that bird box movie came out on Netflix and it was like such a big deal. People just like like her movies. They do. Talk to him after two coming this fall. Okay. Morning glory. 2010. I think our shared most underrated romantic comedy of the last. And every once in a while we can do one for us. I've recently got some feedback in the big picture mailbag that like I've made my case on this one. I have talked about morning glory on this podcast enough. And I've said the words frittata enough just like that. It's Rachel McAdams. It's Patrick Wilson, Diane Keaton, Harrison Ford. There's a great Hunter Boots movie. Yes. That is when Hunter Boots were a real thing. And it's filmed in New York and she's running around Rockefeller Plaza trying to do whatever she is going to do. Didn't make a lot of money. But pretty wonderful. And this is our list. So I think we can put it in. We can do what we want. It's a great movie. I don't understand anyone who thinks otherwise. I also don't understand how people haven't seen it. So just, you know, sign up everybody. Okay. The next one, what's your number? 2011. I put this on the list because I met my husband outside of a screening for this movie. This star is honest. Yeah. It starts on a Ferris and Chris Evans. And it's an incredibly insulting film about how on a Ferris reads a women's magazine article about how you can only sleep with 20 people in your life or you can't get married or something. And she's on 19. So she asked to go track down all of the people she had sex with. It's degrading and occasionally funny because Ana Ferris is an incredibly gifted comedian. And then guess who her number 20 turns out to be. We don't have to put it in. But you know, it's it's a piece of big picture history. Okay. That's beautiful. Okay. Silverlightings playbook 2012. I think that's a yes. I think so too. I think this movie, I'm not supposed to, I think, but I do like this movie. Yeah, well, the the mental health stuff plus the David O'Rossal conversation, but it launches Jennifer Lawrence more or less. I mean, this is her Oscar winning role. And it's does a lot for the city of Philadelphia and trash bags and Bradley Cooper made a ton of money. I think it's a yes. I also when I asked a great movie, I asked my husband. I was like, what is your favorite romcom of the last 25 years? And Silverlightings playbook was his answer. So there we go. It's very good. Okay, great. All right, enough said 2013 directed in my Nicole Hall of Center. I think she makes movies that are a romcom adjacent. And I understand why it's here. But I don't I think this is a movie about adults navigating life. And I and like navigating dating as old like, you know, not even as older people well as like, you know, people who aren't 28 or supposed to be 28. You're completely right. And I don't think that it is. It meets our definition of a romantic comedy. I think it's one of the most wonderful films. Yeah. In the last 25 years, I rewatched it. I recommend it in the beautiful James Ganelfini performance. Julia Louis Drive has forever. Okay. So now we're in the the type of movie is changing. The frequency of the movies is changing. And certainly the box office is changing. So I think this is sort of like the internet in D era almost. Yes. Yes. So this is 2014 and at which point the economics of a big budget studio romantic comedy starring movie stars is gone. We're not doing that anymore. Obvious child. Directed by Jillian Rope Spare, starring Jenny Slate and Jake Lacey. Definitely a romcom. Okay. Also one of the most unrealistic romcoms I've ever seen. Because Jake Lacey's character is like too perfect. Like only a woman would write Jake Lacey's character. But sometimes in a romantic comedy, you can have a real person. And I mean, that brings up the question of is this more about the Jenny Slate character and what she's going to do and whether or not she's going to have an abortion and her own personal. That's true. Her personal decisions and sort of like a response to knocked up and with a romance alongside of it. The flip side is that I was out to dinner with two friends last night asked them what their favorite romantic comedy of the last 25 years was and they both said obvious child. So I think I responded too quickly. I do think this is more of like a woman on a journey story with a cute guy. And I think I just really like it. So that's why I was like, yeah, wonderful movie. Okay. Yeah, that's wonderful, but I don't think it's in. I retract. Okay. Um, train wrecked 2015. This was a Juliet suggestion. And I thought that it was very, very wise. I think it's a romcom. It's not my favorite. It is. But it's a romcom. And I think the way that it resolves itself very Thank you very much.
meets our definitions of a rom-com, though its resolutions are what greets, what it's grading to me, because they feel a little tidy and a little bit like putting the messy Amy Schumer character in her place. Yes. And the Amy Schumer character is also like a real throwback to like the earlier, of like the kind of like messier Jennifer Aniston style dress like characters like, you know, it's, it's also kind of kind of sending, but there's like some truth to it too. I also just think this movie is like a cultural touchstone. I feel like it was just such a big deal. LeBron being in a movie was so funny. I don't know, it was, it was a really big deal and it's, it follows all like the arch of it, like a classic rom-com perfectly. Yes. This used to be my favorite movie of all time because I saw it on a date in middle school with a girl I had zero chance with. Wow. That's a beautiful story. The day went well, but I was way more into her than she was into me, nothing really happened, but I think I tweeted train wreck is the greatest movie of all time at like 14 years old, so that was pretty cool. So this is also a touchstone for me. Okay. Where you want to weigh out at now? I still like it. Yeah. Is it a rom-com? Yes, 100%. Because the conflict is really just about whether, hey, whether she's being ethical and her job, which is a hard no, but be whether or not, she can be, you know, in a relationship and whether he can be in a relationship. And they are, they're not quite opposed, but they're also never really on the same page until the end and her really cheesy romantic gesture. Also, LeBron is great in this. Also, this is, this made over a hundred million dollars, which like in 2015 for comedy, like for this genre is significant. So it was a hit, Judd Appetale directs woman miracles happen. Let's do it. Okay. It's in. To his credit, he was like a major sponsor of Lena Dunham when girls started. I think he was the executive producer. And, you know, I just saw a headline about his daughter's movie finally being released after it was a hit at TIFF last year. Okay. That's exciting. I have no idea. Well, maybe, maybe you will. Okay. Carry on. The big sick 2017. Written by Emily V Gordon and Camille Nanjani, who stars in it, opposite Zoe Kazan, directed by Michael Show Walter. This was not a biographical, right? Yes. And nominated for a screenwriting Oscar. A decent hit made 42 million. I think it was very funny. Launched the Ray Romano meme about you go online. People hate Forest Gump. I'd never go online. I love her. He's so he is such a good actor. I found this movie sad. And I think we tried to eradicate illness from our romcoms. I think this is more of a family movie than a romcom. I think you're right that there is more drama. And it is very funny, but it's not light. And we have been, but then we're going to get in really tricky territory. If we can't do anything sad for the rest of this list, then we won't have anything after anything good. Yeah, certainly not anything good. And I'm willing to give up on a lot of things. But I think this one was a big end of enough hit and also being recognized by the Oscars in screenwriting as a big deal. Like it was sort of a sensation. Maybe it is important to like recognize the shift in what is a romcom. Yes. And this in this moment. Yes. In terms of scale, in terms of how it's reduced and released and received. I think it's important. So I'm going to fight for this one. Okay. All right. Next one set it up. The big deal here at the ringer because it is set up at a company not unlike the ringer, which existed when this phone came out. I believe it was based on Gratland. Yeah. Yeah. Where they worked. Sure. But by the time it was released, the ringer existed. And we're in my Katie Silverman who I believe went to Dartmouth much like you. Yes. And also wrote book smarts stars Zoe Deutsch and Glenn Powell. This is like Zoe Deutsch's first big Netflix movie and she's still making them all those years later. She sure is. I think this is a romcom. I think this also like really helped Glenn Powell. I feel like people were really talking about him after this. And this is one of the first Netflix originals about adults that I remember other people talking about being like, oh, did you see it? Set it up pretty good. And I do feel even if we now as we talk about all of the Netflix romantic comedies, which are a very varying degrees of quality, we all say, yeah, but like set it up was pretty good. So yeah, set it up was pretty good. Okay. And it's also it sort of like takes the idea of share and clueless setting up producers and then sort of like expands it in a way. And yeah, I think this is a romcom. Okay. Great. And it can end and you think it's worthy of the canon. I do. I think it's similar to the big sick. I think it ushers in a new era of streaming romcom, which is where most romcoms are now. That's true. Um, flea bag season two written by Phoebe Wallerbridge starring Andrew Scott and Phoebe Wallerbridge. This is a TV show. So this is a TV show. And I do think that it's important to recognize the fact that some of our greatest romantic, romantic comedy writing in the last 10 years has migrated to TV. And also flea bag and the other example that we'll get to are concentrated enough that the runtime is not that much more than a feature like film would be. But I think it's flea bags only six episodes. Exactly. I do still think it's TV and it can't technically go in, but it was also it's complicated. And it's the point is that they can't end up together. And that's what that's interrogating. But you know, and they're not really like a post. Well, his faith makes them a post. Sure. He's a priest. Sure. Uh, who gets to blend in. Yeah. I think that it introduces Andrew Scott, even because you know, season one of Phoebe Wallerbridge was already around and she, oh, so this was like, you know, at the French and Andrew Scott had been around too, right? Like he was in Sherlock, which was a huge huge hit in the UK. But I think it introduced him to like a female audience in a different way. And like really launched him as a heartthrob. He hasn't really done anything like heartthrob-ish since if I'm recalling correctly. He's done a lot of stuff and he's really successful. But this was sort of like, I don't know, just but this is such a moment. Flea bags season two is, is a moment. That's I guess the best way I can put it. And hot priest was a moment. And I think yeah, even 10 years earlier, it would be a movie. But yeah, it was a TV show. So it can't go it's out. Plus one, 2019, Jack quaid in my Erskine. Did you see this one? I did. Another wedding related movie. Um, I did not really enjoy it. Okay. Quite boring. Um, I want to like Jack quaid, for his lineage. And also I like the boys. But I was not into this. Maya Erskine dancing at the, at the first wedding that they go to is one of the funniest things that I've ever seen. Like I stopped because this was on Hulu. So I stopped my TV and rewound it to watch again. I don't think I've ever done that in a movie before. But it does not have to go in because you weren't as enamored of it. Happy as season 2020, speaking of Hulu. So we're in the COVID era now. Yeah, we're in COVID. This is a Christmas movie as well. Yeah. Um, I liked this movie. I really clearly remember watching it. I think it should be in. It's also one of the only like non straight movies we have in this conversation. Correct. And I think that makes it pretty important as well. Um, and it's, it was very charming. I really liked it. They technically are together at the beginning. And it's more about finding their way back to each other. Yes. But after family hijinks and insults ensue at Christmas. But, you know, we do have president, the comedy of remarriage, which, you know, technically and those the people are divorced, but they're coming from a place, you know, you start together-ish. And then as long as you rediscover your love, then it works out. I mean, the real issue here is that everybody wanted, uh, Christmas to just run off with Aubrey Plaza. Yeah. So, but in a way that makes it interesting, we do have many other examples of there being a very compelling third person in the love triangle who's a man. So why can't, why can't we have a same sex version? I agree. Happy as season. Really good one. Palm Springs is also a 2020 COVID Hulu situation. And I do think it has to go in. I think it has to go in. I also do not like this movie. I just wasn't moved by it. You don't like Palm Springs the place. I just the idea of Palm Springs. I'm like, it's too bright. I need sunglasses. It's just like anything that's like sun drenched is the past for me. Yeah. So I didn't really want in a pool movie. And no, thank you. Um, but I understand this was very popular and people loved it. And very inventive and moved a lot of people. And I think it came out very early in COVID. And it sold for a lot of money at Sundance pre COVID. And we all watched it and thought like, oh, maybe life isn't over and also romantic comedies aren't over. Yeah. They still kind of are, but whatever. Great movie. It's going in Starstruck season one. Is a TV show. So by my own rule, it can't go in. But it is also two hours long. It's an [BLANK_AUDIO]
version of Notting Hill, where it's a gender switch of Notting Hill, I should say, written by Rose Matafeo, stars Rose Matafeo, the most delightful two hours you can spend. It's so good. It is so good. It's great. You want to make a plug for the other TV show that I was thinking of, but I dare not put on here, which is Love Sick on Netflix. I think it's on Netflix. Oh, right. Yeah. It's so good. I would just go straight to season three. It's very similar. If you're looking for the same vibe. Okay. Worst person in the world. 2021. I did see this Amanda. I'm happy to tell you. I liked it a lot. Obviously. It's a wonderful movie. As I was making my rules for Romantic comedy, I realized that it doesn't really fit Romantic comedy. It's more of a woman figuring things out about herself. Stars, we're not. It's great. We're not a Ryan's band. This is how most of us learned about. I absolutely delightful movie. My favorite movie of 2021. Check it out. If you haven't seen it, Fire Island, 2022, still in COVID. This is written by Joel Kumbuster, directed by Andrew Onn and it's gay pride and prejudice and set on Fire Island, which is the beach continent Island. The titular island of beach community outside of New York. I thought this movie was very charming and I still think they do a thing where they sing the search light fanfare like to the screen or something when it opens and every time I hear that now, I think of this movie. I don't think it has to go in. It was smaller. I don't know how many people saw it, but- I did not see it. I'm aware of it. I did not see it. It was charming. They talk about fiction and reading books in this movie, so that's good. Anyone but you, also directed by Will Glock. I watched The Son of Plain starring Sydney, Srinie and Glenn Powell. Yes. I think this is the one I watched The Son of Plain to meet you in London. I recall correctly. Oh, nice. Yes. Um, I feel like the press tour for this movie, it clips the movie itself. We got so much Sydney, Srinie and Glenn Powell. Yes. It is a good, solid movie. I enjoyed myself. It did well. It's not good. It's not great. It's not bad. That's good. If we're lowering our standards, it's in as almost like one of the only rom-coms to get like a wide theatrical release, yes, and to be successful and make money. And they do also, if we're doing the bridge's test, I don't know if there's a bridge in Sydney Harbor, but they do have a major set piece. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I forgot that some of us on this podcast have been to Australia. They haven't. Thank you to United. They have a major set piece in Sydney Harbor with that that was filmed there. At least part of it was filmed there. It doesn't look totally fake. So it meets a lot of the criteria. I don't think Sydney, Sweeney and Glenn Powell are well matched. There's not a lot of chemistry there beyond the sex scenes. That's another thing. This is as much as sex comedy as it is a romantic comedy. But I do think that it fits the rules and it made, it was so successful that we have to include it. Okay. It's canonical, but not good. Yes. Okay. There we go. Like our standards can only take us so far. Riley. It's true. 2024. Have you seen this? I have not. This is a wonderful. This is much smaller movie. It's British. It's set in London. And it's a, it is a one night, you know, only type of movie of two people who meet wandering the streets and fall in love. It's all, it stars David Johnson, who you would recognize and then and who has since been cast as the new Black Panther. So cool. It's lovely. And I really liked it. It was a Sundance movie. And I guess not enough people have seen it for it to go in the canon, but it's kind of like should be canon. Maybe this will be my blue. Okay. Okay. You have music and lyrics. Yeah. I have music and lyrics. You've Rylane. Okay. That's beautiful. Sure. Okay. Anora. I have a man to comedy. I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen anora. Okay. Picture. Jack. I know. Is Anora a romantic comedy according to our definitions? I think so, right? They're not together at the start. Well, who's they? Mark. Oh, interesting. Very interesting. You're saying you're a burrowsov. Yeah. Well, I was thinking through Mark Edelstein. Well, sure, but they get together and then the movie. If it's Mark Edelstein, then it's not a romantic comedy because that doesn't end well. Spoiler alert, Juliet. This is a wonderful film. I am going to see it just to be clear. I also just want everyone to know I like tonight. I have to watch like 68 hours of reality TV. It's not. I watch more movies. I just don't have time. No, I know. So I think that this is more, this is a comedy and also a drama that uses a lot of screw ball comedy and screw ball comedy references, which are a big part of certainly the first, the earliest romantic comedies and has romance in it, but it doesn't, it's not a tradition. It's not just a romantic comedy. No, I agree. I also think it has some of the same reasons you put big sick in, where it's like, this is a different version of the romantic comedy as we've been getting. It got recognized by the Academy. I would personally have it in because it's also a wonderful movie. Yeah. And it did, I mean, it won best picture. It's really stupid to not claim it for the romantic comedy genre. It's great. I'm getting it. I loved it. It was, it was my favorite movie of 2024. Again, 2025. This is the dot com. You recommended it to me so many times. This is wonderful. Written and directed by Harry Lighten, written with Adam Mars Jones, stars Harry Melling, Alexander Skarsgard. This is this actually though, if we're going by our own rules, and even though the very neat catchphrase, Dom Com is there, it is ultimately it's about a young man discovering himself. And then he is discovering how he wants to be loved. I know, but Jack is making a face at me in the booth. I think it's definitely a romantic comedy. It is. I argue it's more of a romantic comedy than an aura. Well, okay. So I guess at this point, we have to decide with our list and with this last portion of our list, which is about the ways in which the romantic comedy had to change. And it cannot meet our original standards and survive. And like how flexible can we be I because I kind of agree, like Pillion is right there. And it is so wonderful. It's your podcast and your list and Sean's not here. So do what you want. Jack, but go. Oh, but uh-oh. Go ahead. If the genre is dead, then the genre is just dead. Like, I don't know. Is it going to evolve in a depth? I'm not sure it's going to. It's going to be a different kind of movie. And there's all these movies that are like adjacent to it, but aren't quite the same. Sure, but there is also a movie that uses the tropes of a genre so specifically to comment on it. Mm-hmm. I use I still think of the genre, even though it's trying to do something new. So I think, I mean, this is, this is about a guy who gets into a Dom relationship, a subdomar relationship with Alexander Skarsgard. And it is about their relationship. And then what happens? Is this magical last scene? No, it has to be. Okay. It's going in. It sounds like a rom-com from what you just described. We're breaking, we're breaking our own rules and like the relationship and the nature of their romance or what the definition of romance is between them is the text of the movie. Okay. The, my last pitch is just being cute and I've been saying this all year. The drama, 2026, which I do actually think is a rom-com. It is probably more- I pledge to watch this too. It's more a romantic comedy of remarriage because they are together and then some hijinks ensue, but it's set around a wedding. It uses so many of the tropes and the structure and even the final beat of the romantic comedy is set up and lands perfectly. There's a dance element to it. There are friends. There's a really, really bad best friend speaking of, but she's supposed to be bad because she's sending it up. I think that there's a case to put the drama in here just to be cute. I put it in over one night only, which I think is a more traditional romantic comedy and very fun, but- It's not going to be canon, it's not just- It's not canon. It's in term, as you've said at the very beginning, the plot set up is insurmountable. Yeah. Okay. This with 23 movies, which is for 25 years. Wait, are we counting the drama? Yeah. I'm putting it in because Sean's not here, but my pot and pan are. Do you feel okay with that, Jack? I do. The only counter, I think, is that they're not opposed at the start, but otherwise, I agree. And it's also a wonderful movie. Yeah, but they're separated pretty quickly by- This is true. And like, the drama of the drama is them, can they find their way back to each other? Or should they? It's also a fun example of a movie that goes against your rule of movies that start with weddings are good and movies that end in weddings are bad, but it's like the flip of it. Yeah, that's the flip of it. And that it is- I personally think how the wedding at the end is a good use of it. It's really, really funny. Julia, you'll like that movie. Okay. I'm definitely going to see it eventually. I'm going to read the list very quickly in my movie, Phone Voice. And then- Okay. And then I'll release you. Okay. No release necessary. Let's-
honored to be here. - The 21st century romcom canon as decreed by Juliet Lippmann and Amanda Dobbins with support from Jack Sanders. Brigitte Jones Diary, the wedding planner. My big fat Greek wedding, sweet home Alabama, had to lose a guy in 10 days. Something's got to give hitch. Wedding crashers knocked up 27 dresses for getting ceremonial, the proposal, morning glory, silver linings, playbook, train wreck, the big six, set it up, happiest season, Palm Springs, anyone but you, a Nora, a pillion, and the drama. I don't know why. - And I don't know why I need personal endorsements. - Go ahead. Let's bring us to a clean 25, Ryan Lane from Amanda and music and lyrics from me. That's 25 movies, that's great. - One for each years. - Yeah, that seems appropriate in summation, but it's felt like a real desert living it. I would love more than one a year. - Well, we do have a gap from 2020 to 2023. There's some other gaps in here from 2012 to 2015. We need more. - Yeah. - We need more and we need them to not be just released on Netflix or thought of as a Netflix movie. Give us more. - I agree. - Let's say. - All right, that's it. This has been two hours, Juliet. - Thank you, truly. I think it's been over two hours. That's fine. Juliet, thank you for coming. - Thank you for having me. - On the big picture to discuss our most beloved shared topic. So many movies that make me smile. - Thank you to Jack Sanders, our producer for his work on this episode and also for some crucial insight on train wreck and his 14-year-old dating life. I mean that positively. Listen, this is how we learn and grow. Thank you to Sarah Reddy for her production support. I am now going on vacation. This is my time. This is me hitting the vacation bell. But Sean, we'll be back next week. We're trading and Sean is going to do a mailbag episode. You can send mailbag questions to
[email protected] and don't send them for me because I won't be here. But I hope you guys have a great time. Juliet, thank you again. And I will see you guys on the other side. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)
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