Speaker 1great so we're looking at number 10 in the on coping chapter right so Daniel saying it's useful and I was just encouraging you to maybe even not in the chat or out loud per se but just for yourself especially right how was it useful what about it stood out to you as being something you could implement and thank you for the reflection on that after the suggestion to with the recording situation Nia sure yeah I think it's a good point right number 10 definitely talks about how powerful it is and how controlling it can be and let's even go to 10 real quick I'll share my screen let's get to that specific reference right right at the beginning that's an important point he raises right anxiety can I think at time I think at a time I think at a time is definitely already sharing my screen okay I'm sure in the wrong screen give me a second but tonight a second point yeah that's a part of what he's saying here right ultimately what he's suggesting is that the anxiety to an extent I'm not sure if I would use the word distraction necessarily but I think it's a good word to use right now or it's you know it's well enough with his description it's calling attention away from the actual issue right so the thing the literal thing we're anxious about isn't the sort of the larger picture and at the very least it's not the most important thing we could be thinking about so what are you saying in number 10 in my opinion is sort of he's encouraging us to practice in a way redirecting our thinking and feeling right so as we talked about a little bit last class I hope we came up or you know we encounter some strategies that might be useful for confronting anxiety and worry right so we talked about those questions is it real is it true is it helpful we talked about the power of acceptance and then through acceptance learning how to laugh and our anxieties right we talked about going back and taking time to meditate on past events that might be influencing our ways of seeing and feeling and being in the moment right all of which of course connect to also improving the way we view the future we define anxiety right as a future-driven negative set of thoughts and feelings right so it's essentially perceiving the future as something negative and then in addition to that perceiving ourselves I think more often than not in addition to that perceiving ourselves as not being able to move through those challenges and thrive and flourish right so that being said number 10 I think is giving us another sort of tool in that toolbox right I think we in this class did encounter the the idea of mental equipment mental equipment being again the set of let's say practices principles we can implement in our lives to lead in this case less anxious and less anxious lives and let's even say more confident lives right I think anxiety and confidence do kind of confidence is one potential antidote to anxiety among others right on that note let's talk about 10 more specifically right so to Naya's point he's saying that first paragraph anxiety dominates over and excludes any other form of mental activity all that will be in our minds is terror okay I think the reason for this might be that anxiety is really you know it resides in our imagination so if we're not tethering our thoughts to something real in the moment our imagination just keeps growing right our imaginations are not real there's a quote I think it's from Seneca that the the false is limitless right so you can just keep going right you can in your imagination with anxiety you could just you literally could just keep making things worse there's no need to stop that right maybe it's obviously the need might be that you get super tired and fall asleep right but ultimately we could always just keep diving deeper down into let's say or spiral into greater senses and feelings and thoughts of anxiety because again it's not real right and then the false it's a great for this actually the false is limitless so you want to keep that in mind I think that's why among other reasons maybe he's saying it has the let's say the capacity to be all-consuming right so he's saying there is one nimble way to try to outweigh anxiety and I think we have more than one already but just for argument's sake let's do what he's saying here and that is with a question that recognizes a fundamental feature of anxiety that it is frequently a smokescreen and again distraction is a good word for that too for something else something beyond what we consciously think is worrying us that we're in fact concerned with or about right so there's a larger issue behind let's say the the small anxiety right so the thing and we talked about another strategy yesterday of being able to discern or tell what provokes anxiety versus what actually deserves it and that's another interesting point I think is kind of nicely right because the thing that might provoke it is the smaller let's say manifestation of the larger fear that actually might deserve anxiety right or not we have to see that's a part of this whole process right one of the peculiar facts of our minds is that we may choose to feel anxious rather than to confront things that may be yet more painful or emotionally awkward in our lives it can be easier to fret than to know ourselves properly so if we choose to be anxious and we choose to feel anxious then we choose to feel anxious so to know ourselves properly again we I love this idea like maps of the self like topographies of the self what are you actually afraid of it's sort of the question here okay panic or the seeming that seeming sense of panic may be invited to shield us from more profound sources of self-aware agony okay so when we stop focusing on what's making us see you know what's causing us to panic okay we have to move through that as he's saying here if your mind we asked us to ourselves if your mind wasn't currently filled with these particular anxiousness or anxiety that's causing us to panic or anxious thoughts what might you have to think about right now okay and so behind the thing behind the anxiety of will my friends hang out with me this weekend behind the anxiety of will that person respond to my ask them to go out to dinner right will the party be uncomfortable and boring will the interview at work go well go you know go poorly we might realize how lonely we are we might realize how angry we are towards our partner we might realize how abandoned we feel right so abandonment anger sadness these are the real things we want to confront right the the party is ultimately just a manifestation of maybe a fear that we aren't cool enough for that we aren't entertaining enough or engaging enough or charismatic enough right and that's the real thing we want to address that perception of the self right and I think through this we can get a lot of growth one because we might be able to start conquering our anxieties and that's growing and growing tranquility and also some of these anxieties may even let's say be sort of they may call to our attention ways we can improve aside from becoming more tranquil right so maybe behind the real fear is some information that can help us form ourselves I think I'm we're doing that either way because sometimes information will just be ridiculous like and we can dismiss it oh that's not true that's not real that's not helpful okay I'm not gonna I am charismatic enough I'm not gonna keep telling myself I'm not I don't need to strive necessarily with a great amount of effort to let's say to work on X Y or Z and then other times I think it will be kind of a guide towards development of those traits or maybe I can be a better listener right maybe I can work on let's say my interview skills right so maybe the anxiety that leads us to the larger fear let's say actually has something to tell us that leads to a whole different set of actions right that could be positive and other times too I think as we said we have to learn how to sometimes dismiss these ideas right but again those three questions I think work with this really nicely right is it true that I'm lonely is it real that I'm lonely right which is to say well am I maybe alone a lot am I alone more than I would like to be well is it helpful to know that I'm lonely yeah it's helpful because okay maybe let me get you know let me pick up a hobby let me try to reach out to friends more right and then we're really moving at that point right so some of these things these larger problems again we need to address those instead of just addressing the small manifestations and allowing ourselves to become anxious over them so it's really not this weekend that's bothering you it's the past six months right so how can we maybe take greater control over these actual problems how can we think feel and act in a different way so the next six months we do feel less lonely and even stick with that example right when you're generally and this is I think you know this goes back to what you were saying earlier about you know the same thing goes for introverts and extroverts when you generally feel like you are full in regards to let's say like social interactions one weekend that goes poorly won't feel as bad to you right again if you're generally let's say joyful person one sad event again of course it varies based on the degree to which the event is sad right but let's say one small sad event doesn't ruin your whole month right or even in the case of anxiety right it'll seem less scary to you the possibility of sadness if you are joyful in the moment and you're generally joyful will seem like something you can weather more easily right something you can deal with more easily so but by addressing our larger fears okay we actually start getting better information because again the small triggers that he gives some examples in this essay right kind of just fill our mind with fear they don't really do much for us but when we get to the real issue behind it right and we start to get to know ourselves why are we angry why are we sad and we start to really start making progress on the this whole anxiety thing and naya to your second point right that's what he's saying yeah i think i think there's a great interpretation here right we don't want to deal with that big stuff and i like you put easier in quotes right it's easier to get flustered as he's saying here and ignore what the actual issue is because the actual issue would require as i just kind of walked us through it and i think in optimistic sense it might require that we make some changes change is scary okay we should work to make change less scary but ultimately i think change something that we're naturally afraid of even a good change right especially if we're individuals who may deal with some anxiety right change is especially scary because even if you get the thing you want you become anxious what that you're going to lose it right so again we'll talk about that i think um that meaning change throughout the summer because that just sort of is a it's something i'm even asking you to do right today um as i mentioned last class we're going to pause for happiness on a little for a little bit and we're going to make sure we cover practices at least started today because again one of your final take-home options is to adopt a practice for a week i want to make sure we have time to think about that um but i'm asking that you make changes right or i'm not asking i'm encouraging you maybe to consider what would spending 10 minutes a day in a new way feel like what could that do for me right and the more i work with students the more i work with um my clients for my philosophical consultation stuff the more i'm seeing like the self-writing is powerful so i really i'm going to really be very encouraging on that because the self-writing has helped a lot of people um deal with anxiety among other things so i'm going to really i hope we enjoy that part of the class and the conversation today um because what we're getting here too ultimately can happen in self-writing right for you to really do the work again it's not easy but to do the work to focus on like what am i actually afraid of i would suggest writing that out because it's going to be clearer it's going to be more accurate it's going to be more detailed it could be something that you're disciplined about right more so than i would say you know disciplining your thoughts is more difficult than disciplining your writing once you get over the initial let's say um once you get over the initial difficulty of integrating it as a habit it really i think starts working pretty nicely relatively soon i would say so i mean these are all exercises i might realize i might realize these are things you have to work on so as naya is saying right it's harder to confront the real issue but he's saying here that that's the pathway to a less anxious life okay and i like how he makes the following distinction because it's a distinction i made a moment ago too with whether or not we should engage with these fears and these anxieties to then make changes to do new things right or can we dismiss them so he says here right certain anxieties can be taken at face value for they do clearly relate to worrying to worrying things in the world right so those are the normal let's say normal anxieties and we've said anxiety is normal right but there's another class of them and a rather large one at that that is there for no better purpose than to distract us from understanding important parts of ourselves if we need to suffer and often we will the least we could do is to ensure that we are suffering for the right reasons so there's a lot of i don't want to say complexity here but there's levels to this conversation right so he's illuminating another one here some small anxieties are useful if we address them because they guide us to these larger anxieties right so we shouldn't ignore our anxieties is ultimately what he's saying here i think rather clearly right he's asking us to address them in a very meaningful way right and we address them with the following question and he kind of is repetitive here but i think it's a good point to end on you ask yourself if my mind wasn't currently filled with these particular anxious thoughts what might i have to think about right now so i think there's a couple ways to interpret that too right so one might be oh the larger issue is what i could think about i can think about addressing loneliness sadness and anger resentment or what have you in my life that is let's say a habit it's a habitual way of being and feeling that's the real issue here i also think at times especially when let's say the small anxiety is not something we can address and and here's a question for me right now and i wonder how he would respond to this do we think that every anxiety is attached to a larger way of being right or a larger let's say problem in our lives an ongoing problem i wonder that i i think maybe the if the answer is yes then this essay is incredibly incredibly useful and i think it's very useful even if the answer is no right um and maybe i'm just making a misnomer i'm just making a misinterpretation here right if we come to know ourselves well enough i think we may find that there are certain patterns of of anxieties right and that's through our engagement with ourselves and our engagement with the world right so let's say for example this is an example he gives a lot in his works right you're more of an introvert so parties have a tendency to exhaust you and make you anxious right so parties come up in life it's a part of life gatherings right they're going to happen so if you know that that is something that will trigger some anxiety for you and maybe you're able to say you know what i'm anxious about this because i fear that like i feel like let's say that i'm being judged by others and i i now know that that's not rational like nobody really cares right and let's say i had childhood experiences whether it was with family parties or even like let's say teenage experiences at parties that were not positive and i haven't really left those behind adequately right because he's saying here too that some anxieties we could take at face value because they relate to worrying things in the world right well let's say for example the worrying thing in the world to me is a gathering for our party let's say how quickly does knowing ourselves help us dismiss that as okay you know what it's not the thing itself that is a problem it's my perception i know my perception is flawed so you know what i'm just going to laugh at this back to his other essay right so i think maybe what i'm arguing here and i'm kind of it might be a little bit obvious but i'm grappling with this right now in real time what i might be thinking of is to what extent is this essay yet again another pathway to learning to just accept and laugh right maybe i'm a little bit to shift the example maybe i'm a little bit of an angry person all right well you know what i'm not going to get angry because i'm realizing that i'm triggered to become angry and anxious and then anxious about being angry like i wonder if i'm going to get angry at this party or whatever right um i wonder if i'm going to get angry when i have to wait in line rather than i'm going to feel anxious about getting angry right but to what extent does the unpacking our personal history as we talked about yesterday and then kind of maybe from more of a philosophical standpoint unpacking the larger parts of ourselves or the larger parts of our history or the larger parts of our relationship how much does that once again lead back to acceptance and laughter right especially this last paragraph he's asking us to to learn how to take some at face value and then question others right such that they lead us into different directions okay that direction being greater self-understanding and that greater self-understanding potentially leads to acceptance and laughter and changes of thinking feeling and acting so yeah i mean for me i think it's interesting to consider how all these things connect and i think this essay again provides another interesting pathway to not allow let's say what would trigger our anxieties to trigger them as intensely or as frequently because once we address and again i doubt this would be a one-time thing right this would be an ongoing discussion with ourselves about how we could maybe instead of again necessarily just be less triggered to be angry well the question might be why am i such an angry person how could i be less angry generally is different than i'm anxious about getting angry tomorrow again that's an anxiety-driven narrative versus an inquisitive sort of let's say productive narrative of how to address the larger issue at hand any other thoughts on this again i think this really puts into question the the the way we kind of like let's say size things or distance things or i mean that last by the last term like the way we create distance between ourselves and the things that make us angry right and so i think it's important to think about that right and so i think it's important to think about that right again the whole premise of this too obviously is know yourself it's not that this event is making me angry it's my it's maybe that i'm just kind of i'm holding a lot of anger in me right now and on that note i want to make a connection to number one so let's scroll up for a minute here so number one we're reading from epictetus the incuridian which is the manual right a part of um a part of his work again he wrote nothing down all the students kept kept notes that's what we have from him a large part of his work as i think i described him already was dealing with things like anxiety and stress and as a stoic those are really important they want to use logic to create a stress or let's say create as stress-free a life as possible and as a teacher i'd often imagine him like fielding questions from his students and then they would write down responses and a lot of his school was based on the idea that it was a hospital may have discussed this right i apologize if i'm repeating myself um as a hospital for people basically with problems of the soul right with philosophical problems so this is you know in a lot of ways i think laying some groundwork at least and i say some for a reason right for like modern psychotherapy right i think we feel that with epictetus specifically and number two is exactly what i'm saying here men are disturbed not by things but by the principles or ideas and notions which they form concerning things. So if you have a proclivity for being angry, that will affect the ideas you form concerning things. You will be more, and we could argue with this, but I think it's interesting, you will be more easily angered than someone who isn't, let's say, carrying anger with them. I think we can see this with ourselves and others pretty clearly. Right? Now, are there some things that are, let's say, naturally disturbing? I would say yes, and I would say that's a good thing. Again, it's not a good thing that they are disturbing or that there are disturbing things, right? But I think that we need to be disturbed by things, is what I'm trying to say. Some things should disturb us, right? And the Stoics, and I would include Epictetus in this, were very concerned with serving humanity, right? Which would imply to me that they would acknowledge that there is such a thing as doing something wrong. Right? There is such a thing as improving ourselves, which is to say that as, you know, the idea of a hospital, right? We are hurt as people, right? And so that's a natural part of being a person. I like to have somewhat of a sympathetic, in some contexts, interpretation of the Stoics. I think in a lot of our modern understanding of them, people may say they're encouraging us to not have feelings. I don't think that's fair, entirely. Again, I'm maybe a little sympathetic to them here. I think they're saying we feel, robustly, and sometimes that damages us. So we should learn how to feel in a way that is more rational, right? In a way that is more helpful to ourselves and others, and try to avoid feelings and thoughts that are destructive, right? Which is the whole point of the chapter being called On Coping, right? Coping to me implies, okay, there's something, just for argument's sake, there's something wrong here. I have to deal with this now. I don't want to be anxious. I don't want to be stressed. I don't want to be afraid in excess, right? So to cope in a way that is more rational, to me implies, okay, we're getting better, right? And this chapter focuses a lot on anxiety, because I just think that's a very relevant point culturally, right? The more I'm researching philosophy as a form of therapy, I'm sort of learning about, well, okay, what are the most useful things that that mentality, that philosophy about philosophy can do? Well, okay, well, it has to serve us to solve the issues that we're dealing with most frequently and most intensely. Anxiety is huge right now. So I think that's, again, it's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point in why we have so many discussions about it. But again, the pictetis is telling us something very similar to what number 10 is telling us, right? The notions we form around things are likely going to be influenced by the, again, not by the things themselves, as he's saying here, but by these larger modes of being within ourselves that we have to come to know. Okay, so when therefore we are hindered or disturbed or grieved, let us never attribute it to others, but to ourselves. And so I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point. to ourselves, that is to our own principles or ideas. So again, we can argue with this is very interesting stuff. But would this not give us more power? Right? If you know, you are easily you're you're, let's say you're easily drawn to impatience. Right? And you stopped blaming the external world for that. And instead, let's even take the word blame out for a moment. But instead, saw yourself as the source of your impatience. And so I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very relevant point. And I think that's a very maybe because of the way you view time, maybe because of the way you view yourself as always being behind. Right? Um, would you benefit from that? Again, this is a question we could argue about, I think, quite interestingly, if this is excessive, it's a problem. I think even for the Stoics, if this is excessive, it's a problem, because they do want us to acknowledge that the external world exists. Right? And that we are, in fact, influenced by it, we're going to go to number number seven, in a moment, I'm going to do a little lecture on a part of my book, Nicomachean Ethics, where Aristotle's advising his son is like, look, chance happens, the universe is real. Fortune, misfortune is real, you will be affected by it. Right? But it's up to you then. And Aristotle takes it, I think, in a similar direction. Like you can still shine through that. You can, again, cope with that, with nobility. So we're getting sort of, I think, different angles here on how to basically deal with stuff. So if the things and again, back to number, we're going to be moving between 10, seven, and one a little bit here, right? If you really sat down and wrote about the larger issues at hand, and then saw how those might be shaping the way you see things, that's going to help you cope. Right? Because again, he's asking us to consider here number two, it's not what it's not the thing you're seeing, it's the way you're seeing it. And ultimately, there's the great Arabic proverb, I'm not sure if I shared this yesterday. I think I did, but it really applies here as well, right? If you cannot, move the rock, kiss it. I think that's very interesting. Right? The Stoics would really agree with that. Again, that Marcus Aurelius quote, the obstacle is the way. So if you start viewing the obstacle as the way, the path itself, is it an obstacle anymore? Again, this is going to be very, let's say, specific to the particular circumstance you're in, of course. So there may be examples that exist outside of this philosophy. I would argue that there are, right? But especially in terms of, let's say, the deal with the rock, kiss it. I think that's very interesting. Right? I would argue that there are, right? But especially in terms of, let's say, the deal with the rock, kiss it. I think that there are, right? But especially in terms of, let's say, the deal with the rock, kiss it. I think that there are, right? But especially in terms of, let's say, the daily life examples that we may be able to think of, like, this is potentially very helpful. Anyone else? Let's talk about number one. I'd love to hear people from, or people's opinions on number one. And we could even just put a number. We have six, I think, pretty interesting entries here from Epictetus. What do we think? Somebody give me a number and maybe elaborate on it a little bit, or I've only talked about number two. So if there's any thoughts on that, or again, if there's a number you want me to elaborate on. How do these ideas help us cope? If they do, maybe you disagree, right? Please take a minute here. I'd love to hear from people. Hamed, so I agree. One is interesting, and I would love to elaborate on one. What do you mean by it's the hardest for you? Like, as in the hardest to deal with? Or like, do you want me to elaborate on it in terms of interpreting it for what I think it might mean? Or like, elaborate more upon why it's difficult in application? Because one is tough. I'll do my best to defend one from Epictetus' perspective, as I understand it. But I think it's the hardest for you. And I also will question it myself, too, I think. I agree with what you're saying, Hamed. But can you can you point to a page number for that? So let me, Hamed, I'll give you a minute there. Let me look at 109, number one, right? So this is one of the, I think, objectively, or let's say, not objectively, seemingly cold pieces of advice from Epictetus, right? So with regard to whatever objects you delight are useful, or deeply loved, remember to tell yourself of what general nature they are. Why? So this is awareness. The Stoics want us to be aware. And they understand, and I think this is a really significant point, right? That to love usually involves suffering, right? So again, their purpose in life is to help us deal with suffering and to rid ourselves of suffering the best we can. Right? I mean, it gives you an example. If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups, in general, of which you are fond. Then if it breaks, you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your child or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed, right? If either of them dies. So this is cold, right? This is extreme. Let's work with it a little bit, right? Now one, this is maybe incorrect, and maybe I'm doing my best to stand for Epictetus, and I'm already challenging it by saying it's cold, because it is, right? Let's remove the word disturbed, keeping in mind this is a translation. And I think for our purposes too, let's make it paralyzed, right? Let's make it paralyzed. Let's make it unable to move on and flourish. Let's make it unable to move on and be happy, right? So. one, the Stoics need us to never drift too far away from the fact that we're all mortal. So in a sense, that's almost what he's saying here. And I think a more sort of, let's say, overt and once again, cold way. And he's giving us examples that are the worst things we could think of, right? The reason for that, again, for the Stoics, they ask us to practice this premeditation of evils. Epictetus himself, right, says, every day, remind yourself of your mortality. We have other advice, you know, or other Stoics too, living lives where like, for let's say a period of time, they'd fast. And again, fasting, I think is a good suggestion generally, perhaps for us to consider a lot of religious practices involve fasting, right? But Stoics would fast, they would sleep on the floor, instead of in a bed. They would, you know, kind of do these exercises that they'd subject themselves to like extreme circumstances, right? Physically, mentally, spiritually, to basically toughen themselves up in a way, right? I put that, it's kind of an overly simplistic understanding of it. But essentially, for some Stoics, and other Stoics looked at them, they're like, okay, that's not the point of this, right? The point of this is to lead a good life. You not eating, and, you know, wearing clothes that you'll be cold when you go outside. That's not really philosophy, right? But to an extent, there is a little bit of a Venn diagram there, right? Where maybe that's an extreme sense of preparing oneself. But for Epictetus to remind ourselves that we're mortal isn't all that extreme. And of course, we can disagree with that, right? But ultimately, what this is saying is, it's more than don't lie to yourself. It's prepare yourself and prepare yourself for what ultimately for the Stoics, this is my interpretation, it would be prepare yourself to be useful, to be of service, right? Because the sort of picture that Epictetus paints in his other works is, if an individual in your family is sick, for example, you want to be able to be as helpful to them as possible. You want to be able to be as helpful to your family as a community as possible. You do not want to succumb to grief. You do not want to succumb to sadness such that you're paralyzed, such that you can't hear the doctor and then be helpful, such that you have to leave the bedside of your loved one and not be there for them, right? So that's the aim here. The aim is to make ourselves resilient through these reminders, right? And I think too, he's not saying when you kiss your child for the entire time you're with them after you kiss them to think about this, right? So we're keeping in mind, it's the sort of frequent reminder, even memento mori, right? I would argue that that's a practice and it's a practice I implement, I think about maybe helps us in moments of anxiety to kind of get rid of that. And I think that's a practice that I implement again, give us a step back and go, okay, this is small, right? To give us a step back and remind us that we should be doing things that challenge us with our lives as we still have our lives, right? Or as we're still alive, of course. So I think ultimately what this is saying too is it should increase the degree to which we appreciate the people in our lives. Again, I gave the example yesterday of the thing you would wrap if it was fragile, if you're going overseas or you're living in a country where there's not a lot of people around you, right? If we treated life and if we treated our loved ones and our relationships as if they were ceramic cups, we would care for them more. So again, these sort of weird, I don't want to say contradictions is not the exact word I'm thinking of, but these ideas I think ultimately don't match, right? At least they seem like they don't match, but really they do. The acknowledgement of our, you know, the potential, let's say, well, the real circumstance that we're all mortal and then the potentially terrible idea that we lose people we love, right, before it might be even the expectation that we do, right, should only encourage us to love them more, should only encourage us to not take our time for granted with them. Or, you know what I mean? What do we think of this? Again, I'm trying my best to see how this might be helpful and useful in regards to coping and the art of thriving, right? Because even think about if somebody were to pass away before, again, the idea of it being expected is not even a good idea, right? Because it never feels that way. But ultimately, if you really took advantage of your time with this person and you love them and you put your all into the relationship, you would feel better, right? There would be less regret. So this is also maybe a good thing to do, right? To love people. We can even argue that maybe to fully love others, we need to remember that we're mortal and that they are mortal. And again, I mean fully love, right? To fully be engaged, maybe we need this type of encouragement, right? Can you really love people fully without remembering that both of you are mortal? Do we need that? It'd be more present. Exactly. Yeah. So maybe that's a good thing. That's a part of this too, right? And I think that's a legitimate point. The ceramic cup kind of should provoke the sense that it's fragile. Then again, that fragility should encourage us to take care of it, right? That question of what if can be a powerful one to get us to act in the moment in a way that is to the highest good, right? To love people like we're all dying is to really love them, right? So maybe we can work with the cold sort of, let's say, language or the cold image he's presenting here and see that it's the opposite of cold. Maybe this is the warmest way to be with people, the most passionate way to be with people. And if we guide that towards truth, goodness, justice, right? This could be the driving force right here. Again, death as a driving force to live in the moment, the notion of death as a driving force to love people as well and as fully and as committed as we can. All those things to me are really healthy tools for coping. Less regret. And on top of that, you have the reminder. So you're less shocked if, God forbid, something does happen, right? And of course, I think that we get kind of a double benefit there. The reminder is useful as preparation and the reminder is useful as encouragement to live a certain kind of life, right? One thing that's worse than getting punched in the face is getting punched in the face by surprise. Right? You're not prepared at all. So the Stoics are asking us to prepare ourselves. And they're also, I think, the same principles that are asking us to prepare in a lot of ways are encouraging us to imbue our lives with a greater sense of meaning and urgency. And those things are really useful too. Any other numbers? We had a couple other points in the chat. Let me see here. Form six. What is pain? A mask. Turn it and examine it. That's exactly what number 10 is saying. Right? That's exactly what 10 is saying from today. And that's exactly what the bear analogy yesterday is saying. Localizing the bear, it means describing it. That means examining it. Right? You take the mask off, you look at it. That's a great philosophical piece of encouragement for why we should practice what 10 is suggesting and what the other readings from yesterday are suggesting as well. Okay. Number six. If you do not wish to be prone to anger, do not feed the habit. Give it nothing which may tend to its increase. Right? So we all do this. And sometimes, again, I think we have to do this. But you get, let's even say, he's saying anger, and I think there's evidence for that too. But just for me, I'm immediately drawn to the idea of you get sad, and then what do we do? You put on sad music. Then it's like sad music and ice cream. Then it's like a sad movie. Then it's like, let me speak some sadness. Right? So we perpetuate these emotions. And the Stoics too are saying, look, don't cause your own suffering. Don't make yourself angry. Right? There's a big difference between being angered and being an angry person. Well, the angry person is someone who just fuels that anger. The world's going to anger us. That's going to happen. Right? But the angry person is like, let's put on metal. Or let's put on angry music. Right? Or even like we talked about, I think the idea of the motivations we choose. And this is maybe a little bit less about coping. But in regards to fueling, right? Or doing things that tend to its increase. If you are angered by the world, sometimes rightfully so, then sometimes you're angered by the world because you're just in a bad mood. Right? And maybe there's something on your mind that you're not examining or what have you. Okay. That'll happen. Fine. Then it's like, okay, I'm motivated by anger to get the degree to go to the gym. You're touching anger a lot in your life. And then, okay, you respond to things in a bad way. You're not engaging with your words. You're in traffic or you're cursing. So here we go. Like, you're creating all these habits. We can do the same thing with sadness. Right? Same thing with pretty much every negative emotion. And I think positive emotions too, to a degree, can also kind of be, let's say, internally and externally contagious. We have to wash these habits though. Back to examining the self. Right? If you're generally optimistic, things will, I think, likely feel a little bit more manageable. Right? Right. And even optimistic, we can put in quotes. right? Because I think even that isn't the word I'm searching for right now, right? If we, again, it's not about, as we had with anxiety already too, it's not about eradicating these things. There are some very interesting arguments. I just read a chapter, I may have mentioned this, about hard determinism. I'm not going to, you know, maybe I'll do a lecture on that because I don't want to give it like too much of a cursory because it's a big idea. I don't want to give it like a superficial meaning behind it, right? But the degree to which we're influenced by our environment, our upbringing, let's say our natural dispositions, right? Quote, unquote, right? Because we can argue all this stuff, right? We may ask, like, to what degree are we responsible for our choices? It's a really philosophical question, right? Again, a lot of what we're doing here is sort of operating under the assumption that we have at least some degree of control over our choices, right? Our ways of thinking, feeling, and acting. But we can really challenge that. And I really want to construct a lecture on that. That'll be more effective. I might not even be able to do it this summer. And I apologize because I want to work with that idea more before I get into it. But I do think that at least raises that question, right? Yeah, Carmelo, for sure. If you are in pain, you will find fortitude. So because we've already spoken a little bit, and, you know, Carmelo, you mentioned you're a coach, right? How do you get better? Right. Even, like, let's say, and I, again, I use certain analogies. Like, let me know if they're useless. Like lifting weights, right? If you want to get stronger, you have to be uncomfortable, right? Like, if you want to really push yourself to lift more weight, there's going to usually be some pain there, right? It's not like you're not going to be lifting more weight, smiling and giggling, right? It's like, there's a sense that you're under stress, right? So I think we can see Epictetus sort of channeling that a little bit here, right? Through pain, we find strength. I think the weightlifting is actually a pretty good example of that. Thank you. That analogy works. Cool. Yeah, I think that actually, again, for me, I try to think about the mind, the body, and the soul as sort of in communication with each other, right? And I think spiritually too, right? We could say, you don't really become more patient until you get tested, right? And that's a good example of that. So I think that's a good example of that. And that test will be uncomfortable. It'll be maybe painful in some way. I also think we could say this is aspirational. Wouldn't you want this, right? People who take pain and become stronger from it, they're gaining something good, right? You don't want to be the person for the stoics, especially who's in pain and just stays in pain, or who is weakened by their pains. So this is, again, it's asking us to see coping as a way of becoming stronger. And if you become less anxious, again, a pathway to that, I think, is becoming more confident. Well, what is confidence, right? I think it's kind of a relationship between internal, external voices, our adoption of those voices, our assimilation of those voices. And then ultimately, confidence is like the virtue that's behind all other virtues, right? Because you need to believe in yourself to take action, right? I think to a large extent, that's accurate. So, you know, to support from, you know, the show Kim's Convenience, which I've been watching, what was it? Confidence builds strength, and strength builds confidence. I think that's pretty cool, right? So yeah, was that a good elaboration, Carmelo? Can I move on? So, Carmelo, if I'm going to go back to that, let me know. But I also think that my elaboration on book 10 from Nicomachean Ethics kind of actually connects to that quote nicely, right? So just going to highlight a couple points here. So this is Aristotle, you know, as I think I may have mentioned, giving us a little bit of an introduction to the book. So I'm going to go back to that. So this is Aristotle, you know, as I think I may have mentioned, giving us a little bit of an introduction to the book. So this is Aristotle, you know, as I think advice to his son, right? So this is a great few ideas here, I think. Let me find my situation. Now, many events happen by chance, and events differing in importance. Small pieces of good fortune or of its opposite clearly do not weigh down the scales of life one way or the other. But a multitude of great events, if they turn out well, will make life happier. For not only are they themselves such as to add beauty to life, but they are also not. The way a man deals with them may be noble and good. So good things happen, they're easier to deal with, obviously, right? While if they turn out ill or poorly, they crush and maim happiness, for they both bring pain with them and hinder many activities. So here he's sort of, in my opinion, grappling with fortune and misfortune from externals. In the external world that exists, we have to engage with it. Yet, even in these negative events, nobility shines through when a great man's fortunes, not through insensibility to pain, but through nobility and greatness of soul. So how do we cultivate greatness of soul? Philosophy. Not only through philosophy, right? But philosophy helps us with that, I think, a lot. So what does that mean? Well, we think maybe about the people we admire for a moment, right? They do this. People who go through hard times, right, who go through suffering, and this is where I'm seeing the connections here, right? But instead of becoming bitter or resentful, or angry, or dishonest, they don't, not only do they not allow their morality, their personhood, their soul to be affected, right? If anything, they, once again, use that pain to increase those things. As we had with our meditation, right? They fight that suffering, and they become, let's say, more noble people, right? So we should strive for that, right? And again, he's talking to his kids. So it's like, look, you're going to have difficulties in life, right? You don't have to, let's say, allow them to direct who you become. Again, this is a very arguable point, right? Very arguable point. I think we have to keep in mind that he is advising someone he loves, right? And maybe this is overly optimistic. That being said, I think for Aristotle, the idea of what we do habitually impacting us, who we become, is a very powerful point for him, right? So we can respond to that. We can respond to that. We can respond to that. We can respond to that. We can respond to that. We can respond to that. We can respond, okay, in a way that cultivates nobility versus the opposite of that. And he says, if activities are, as we said, what gives life its character, no happy person can become miserable, for they will never do the acts that are hateful and mean. So he's connecting this idea of becoming to our actions. And I think that's something that some philosophers agree with, others disagree with. Just to give this some support, if this is of interest, right? Jean-Paul, he's a great philosopher. He's a great philosopher. He's a great philosopher. Paul Sartre, the existentialist, who we can argue a number of points on his philosophy, right? It's, again, I'm not going to get into that necessarily right now, but he argues that basically we're responsible for our actions and our choices, and those are what shape us. And we are alone in that. We are fully responsible. So I think, again, there's a lot of points to counter that, some of which I mentioned earlier, that our upbringings are real, our environments are real, and these are things that we can do. So I think, again, there's a lot of points to counter that. So I think, again, there's a lot of points to counter that. So I think, again, there's a lot Sartre doesn't seem to take account for in, let's say, his work, Existentialism as a Humanism, right? So maybe Sartre is too extreme in that regard. And we can sort of look at Aristotle to an extent, at least what we're seeing here, as, let's say, like a slightly more balanced version of that, right? Where we have some sense that we can guide our actions, right? The aim for our actions for Aristotle ultimately is happiness. For him, happiness is the only final and ultimate goal in our own will. So even in that idea, he's acknowledging that we have a will. So maybe we could say, Sartre's over here, Aristotle's, like, maybe here, and then on this side, we have the hard determinist view where, you know, one even questions whether or not we have free will at all, right? And would say, no. So just again, I like to present different perspectives, so we can see what fits for us. That being said, I think Aristotle here is offering something that warrants consideration. The events of life do not have to turn us into things for Aristotle that we do not want to be. We have some degree of control over this, okay? For the person who is truly good and wise, he says, we think, bears all the chances of life becomingly and always makes the best of circumstances. So that's the silver lining to Carmelo's point. That's the perspective or the truth, right? For Aristotle, on the part of Nicomachean ethics, right, we learn by doing. You want to be an honest person, learn how to tell the truth. You want to be an honest person when it's easier to lie, learn how to tell the truth when you're ignoring the fact that you can gain something from the lie. And again, by this, I would say, too, we have to make sure, because there can be a benevolent or a good lie, for sure, right? But we have to make sure that in this case, we're not lying for reasons that aren't good, for reasons that aren't, let's say, just for our own gain, and for reasons that are manipulative. versus helpful, right? Right. So it's training, training of the self, the self writing we'll talk about today. That's another mode of training of the self. But of course, the actions we take in the world are also for Aristotle, especially. And also for just to mention Sartre one more time. Right. We act and then we become. If we're going in line with some of these thoughts that are, you know, being up for being put up for consideration here. And again, I think there are some practical applications to this. Aristotle was a practical philosopher. Right. He believed we practice philosophy, which is to say, let's, you know, for a moment, think of that as a primarily thinking endeavor. Well, for him, it's like, no, like we have to think so we can act better. Because actions make us who we are and actions impact the world. Right. Jean-Paul Sartre in his speech famously said, right, there is no reality outside of action. So I think, you know, regardless of whether or not we have free will or whether we're the impetus or the initiators of that action or whether or not we're the final legislator, as he believes we are, others would disagree with that behind our action. Right. Either way, we're taking action. Right. Either way, we, you know, we could say, you know, take off a little bit. I think therefore I am right. I act. Therefore, I become as an addition to that. And I would hope that a lot, you know, a lot of what we're doing here with our meditations, you know, we're examining our actions. Right. So whether we are the let's say the impetus or the final decider of our actions, we, and arguably right now, even being in this class, we're taking some kind of action. Right. So we can maybe work to heighten the consciousness around how we reflect on our actions. And all of a sudden, through that reflection and through new actions, we may be able to give our lives a sense of direction. And even if for a moment we believe that we cannot do that, and let's say everything, this is such a cool philosophy to me. I'm sorry if I'm ranting about this, but it's so interesting to me because I grapple with this a lot. Right. Is everything already written? Right. Are we predetermined? It's a beautiful question. It's a really beautiful, interesting question. Right. And the larger question behind that might be, well, what are the implications of that? If life is the movie that I'm observing, am I responsible for enjoying it or not? Is that within my control? Right. If things are destined to happen, I'm destined to be a type of person. What does that really imply that I have to accept this fate? Right. And that is a really interesting question to me. And I'm going to leave this point after one more quick analogy, and I apologize if this is a bit of a ramp. I just I find myself drawn to this. These questions, as we're talking today, the Stoics had an interesting idea that we were we as in all humans. Right. Are sort of like in the example they gave was a dog with a with a leash tied to a cart. Right. And the leash gives us enough room to walk around. Right. To an extent. Like a few feet here, a few feet there. We can sit and relax, but the cart's going to move. Right. So the cart is kind of the universe, right? Maybe the cart is destiny is fate. So if the cart moves, we could try to fight the cart and like hurt ourselves or we can learn how to go with the cart. And like at times even use the cart to help us, and maybe sometimes we should fight against the cart. Right. But ultimately, it's this acknowledgment that we're not with that analogy, at least we're not entirely free. Again, Sartre would totally disagree with that. He literally says we are freedom. Right. These are very interesting points just to present a couple of things for our consideration. Right. As Aristotle is encouraging us to take action, and he would even say in other parts of this reading, those who act win and rightly win, not always. Right. That's a naive point. That being said, though, I think it's safe to argue or a good argument to make that we need to take some kind of action in the world to make it a better place. We need to take some kind of action in our own lives to make ourselves, help ourselves thrive. Right. Sorry if I'm ranting a little bit here, but I think these are very interesting conversations. I'll get back to more about the chapter now. I'm sorry. The same water that hardens the egg, yeah, that's a cool quote, Carmelo, very, very much in line with what we're saying here. Yeah. So, Carmelo, I think for Aristotle, he's saying we do admire people who deal with adversity in a positive way. And that's the quote you asked about, too. That's a person who in pain finds strength. When someone's going through a tough time and they're able to smile at it, I think we do admire them. And I bring up the idea of admiration, too, because a lot of what we're talking about with the On Coping chapter, for example, I think in number 10, right, he's saying to talk to yourself as if you were talking to a good friend, like to advise yourself. And he even suggests talking to a friend, right, who would be willing to listen and kind of add to your points and maybe give you some constructive criticism in a loving way, right? So I think sometimes, too, when we work to see ourselves, that works for us nicely. And other times it creates a greater sense of, let's say, well, I'm opaque. That'll happen. So we change the perspective, right? So, okay, what would I tell a friend? If it's hard for me to talk to me right now, what would I tell a friend? If it's hard for me to hear myself right now, let me ask a friend, maybe. Let me perhaps even turn to the bibliotherapy to hear what a philosopher has to say about this issue. Right? So all different pathways to knowing ourselves. And, again, we can grapple with the degree to which we can shape ourselves. But I think for the sake of our discussions today, especially, like, we should think that we, at least to some capacity, can do that. So let's take a quick break because it's already 1020. Let's take a quick 10. Minutes. Let's say nine minutes. Let's come back at 1030. And if we have no other questions on this chapter, we actually covered the majority of the readings quite nicely, I think. So we'll now go to the chapter on practices. Okay? So let's take a quick, like, nine minutes here, and I'll see everybody back at 1030. Thank you so far. This was really good.
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