On Being Called the N* Word

[Music] You are listening to Motherhood in Black and White. Hello podcast family, welcome to Motherhood in Black and White. My name is Conji. I'm Tara. And as always, we are so thrilled that you have chosen to join us and just to listen in to a conversation about things that go on in our lives, in our parenting journey, and some of the joys. And this week, some of the not joyful moments Tara. Uh-oh. Yes, not joyful. Not joyful at all. So, typically, you know, in the last three seasons, since we've been doing this podcast, since the summer of 2020, we kind of try to plan a little bit about what we're going to talk about, and we're going to discuss. And sometimes we have conversations about what the topic is going to be, and we get our guests to come on this episode. I am not telling you what happened, because I really want to get your authentic reaction as we go. So, it's kind of like, what was that game? Like a surprise podcast episode. Oh, I don't know. Like an improv. Just guys know, she did not tell me anything. Completely at the loss. Please forgive any issues I have. Oh, this is going to be a time for us to have an honest conversation. Okay. So again, the name of this podcast is Motherhood in Black and White. And what we try to focus on is a conversation and understanding and explaining that we all know that Motherhood is going to be challenging. And what we're parenting is going to be challenging. Womanhood is challenging. But it does not mean that within those challenges, it will be identical. And some of the challenges that we are going to face may be unique because of different identities that we carry, and who we are. That might be because we're single moms, or it might be because of socio-economic status, the gender identity of our children, or sometimes even the racial identity of our children. And this week, I encountered something for the first time with my son and something that I have been fearful of since the moment he was born in January of 2009. My 13 year old son was at a sleepover and he was called the N word. He was not. He was called the N word. He was my friend. Let us define what the term friend by another person at the sleepover that was his age. Correct. Not by the parents. Not by the parents to his face. So I'm going to give a little bit of context. When Roman turned 13 in January, I didn't have the normal birthday celebration in part because of COVID, but also in part because as the mother of a black adolescent son, 13 wasn't really an occasion that I was willing to celebrate. It is at this point in his journey that I'm starting to realize that my son is not considered the cute little black boy that was able to kind of do things and get away with things. At some point in American society, young black men are seen as threats, are seen as less than because of the color of their skin. And that's something that I have been mindful of and to knowing that they were going to be conversations that I would have to have with my son about disparate treatment. How he can and may be treated differently than some of his friends who are not black and it's not right. It's not fair, but it is what it is. I never really had the conversation with him about what would happen if someone he considers a friend calls him the N word. And that's what happened there was a game that was being played at this party. One of the kids got angry. The rage turned to racism. And he called Roman the N word. What I think was more hurtful for my son is the fact that some of the other children at the party whom my son thinks heard this happen, denied that they heard it happen. So let's take a couple of steps back here, Tara. And again, I didn't text you when this happened because I said, we're going to talk about this on the podcast. Yeah, you've been sitting here across from me as we're recording this like what are some of your thoughts right now. I mean, I'm just so sorry, just so sorry that that happened to Roman. And I also want to go snatch children up. I mean, my initial thought is where are they? Because I would like to go snatch those children up. I mean, I'm not a person that believes that this is not still happening on a regular basis. And I'm not a person that thinks that that wasn't going to occur at some point for him, but it's still super disappointing. I hold out that he could get a little further down the road before he had to deal with it. And I 100% would not expect him to have to deal with it in his friend group. That is extremely. That is just makes me so angry. Some of the parents around the school in this community where we live and we had a we had a whole podcast episode on this last season about, you know, mom, can I say the end word? And some of the conversations and things that I've heard from white parents are, well, it's in all of the music that my kids listen to. And I heard this after this incident, a parent said to me, you know, it's hard because I hear it in the music that my kids listen to and they hear this word. And I just keep coming back to this one simple question. And I would love it podcast family if you're listening. Why is it that parents just can't say you cannot use this word right? It is hurtful. It is hateful. And you don't ever use it. Period. Because on that same note, listen, my child has heard some of my music in the car that has cuss words in it. But you know what he knows he can't say are those cuss words. So absolutely that makes zero sense to me. I like, oh, okay, well, do you let him say all these other words during that music? I don't know why people can't understand that. And he didn't use it in the term like a friendly. I thought I could say it because it's in the music. He said it from an angry standpoint. That's a completely different. I can't, I can't wrap my mind around it. And the fact that it is continual in our culture. And these are kids who don't necessarily know the angry history of the inward. And again, it's such an ugly word that we don't use the word. We can't, we don't say the word when we're talking about not saying the word. Exactly. Yeah. And before you keep it, let me say one more thing as the white mom in this room. My child is almost 12 this year. And we have 100% had a conversation about we do not use that word. And here is why we don't including other slurs and words he's heard that I said you don't ever use that word. And here's why he goes, okay, I got it. But some parents aren't having that conversation with their kids. We do know why I do know yes, we know because they don't think their kid would ever use it. Right. Or B, they don't think there's anything wrong with their kid using it. Or see their uncomfortable discussing it and why you don't say it and why it's about work. But here's the rub. I don't care how uncomfortable you are having that conversation with your kid. If you aren't willing to consider how uncomfortable it would have been for me and my son to have that debriefing conversation. Right. How uncomfortable my son must have felt in that situation. So much so uncomfortable. And Tara, you know, Roman, he's I do. He's a gentle soul. Yes. But so much so that when the other child after calling him the inward and then throwing a basketball at him, my child hit back. Right. My child who's on a kickboxing competition team. So he wasn't going to get in trouble there. But his entire demeanor changed. Yeah. It is one of those situations when there are moments when things have happened, things are said to us and words hurt words wound that we will always remember. You know, I remember the first time I was called the inward. I was 12 years old in Northern California. And at the time I lived in San Jose and I went to a high school. It was an eighth grade. And so when I went to eighth grade, I started going to the school and I attended there from grades eight through 12. And I would take a train to go to school. And sometimes if I missed the schools bus that would take us from the train station to the campus, I would have to walk. And so this was down the street from Stanford University in the I'm a tell kind of my eight in the late 1980s. and I was walking down the street wearing my schoolgirl uniform. I was a child and a grown man. Maybe I can't remember if it was one or two, but I remember a car slowed down, someone threw a soda can at me, called me the N word and told me to go back to Africa. I couldn't go back to Africa because, "A, I've never been there." And that I remember thinking like, "How can I go back to someplace I've never been?" But I remember that. And then the second time in my life, and the only time that I've been called the N word to my face, was just a couple of years ago here in North Texas at the gas station down the street. - Yeah, I know that story. - And so the purpose, and when people use that word, and they use it and they direct it to a black person, or an African-American person, or a person of African ancestry, and it's someone who's not black. It is usually used to hurt, to defame, to degrade, and to lesson. So if you are not having that conversation with your kid that it's never okay to use that, they may very well assume it's okay to use it. - Right, right. - And we as parents, and again, I, from the bottom of my heart, I hope you hear my heart, and if you are listening to this podcast, and you have not had that conversation with your child, please take the time to have the conversation with them, because this other child who said it, of course, comes from a good Christian home, would never say it, and then of course, there was, oh, it gets worse. There was a little bit of controversy, because this other child said that Roman called him the N word first. And I just was like, the litigator in me, the attorney in me, then has to go into cross examination mode, saying, does this even make sense that the only black child at a party would call a white child in the N word? - Right, the N word. - Yes. - And your child, who I know, would not use that word. - Right. - Let's just get back on that. Like, I know you, so I know for a fact, he's not using that word. - And you know him. - Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, I know Roman, that's completely out of bounds. - Absolutely. And I'll say from my experience of having that conversation with my son, it wasn't an uncomfortable conversation. It's a very factual, straight down the middle. Don't say it. Here's why, here's what it can make people feel like. Here's why, you don't do it. I, there was no discomfort for me. Now, I can understand that there might be discomfort, because some people haven't reconciled. Some of, you know, their feelings about inequality and injustice and what's happened and they have feelings about that. But I'll just say the same thing. I've said to many people about any sort of conversation you need to have with your kid about being other and what that feels like. It's like what you said. I could not have that conversation because that's uncomfortable for me. But I am putting the lives and comfort of so many other kids at risk, by not just having that conversation. Just having that conversation. Thank you for that, Tara. Tell me a little bit about kind of how that conversation with Gage started. Tell us more. You know, he heard it somewhere. I don't remember if it was, it wasn't in my car. I'm very good about editing. So it wasn't in the car, even though some music I listened to just now. I don't remember where he heard it. But he heard it somewhere from something. And we were talking about another slower word, the F word for a different kind of community. Because he had heard that word somewhere. And we were talking about why that's not okay. And then I said, do you know this word too? He goes, I have heard that word. And I go, we don't use that one either. I mean, it kind of came out of he had heard these words. I don't know if he heard them at school. That might have been what it was. But he'd heard them. And when it came up, I wanted to make sure I was very clear that we, not just that like, oh, that's not a nice word. You know what I mean? I wanted to be very clear. Like, we do not use those words here. Is why? Because they're dangerous. And they make, you know, it's not okay. And then he was like, got it. He totally got it. I mean, he understood when I explained the dangerous piece of it, the way it makes people feel, what it means. I mean, that was a very clear kind of honestly. It was like five minutes. Like, he got it. We moved on. He knows. But what you said is really important. And telling. Sometimes people when we talk about the N word or other racial slurs, sometimes people lump them into the quote unquote bad word category. Right. Right. And so here's the thing. If you're lumping in racial slurs with other bad words, adult words, you and I, you know, we use the term adult words that may not be appropriate for kids to use. But adults still use them. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes kids use them. And they're very common. But they don't know that in with those and just say, oh, we don't use that word. It's a bad word. Right. They're not going to know the difference. They don't know the difference. And it really is incumbent upon us to tell them the difference. That there are words that are in the language that are hateful. And we can't use them. You may hear that come back and the kids are like, well, it's in this rap song or it's in this song. Listen. We draw lines in the sand. We tell and we give our kids things that they can and cannot do, things that they should and should not do. That is our role as we are guiding developing these children into becoming respectful citizens of the world. If you don't draw that line in the sand with your kids and make very clear what and why they cannot say and use certain words, I guarantee you, it does not matter what what their religious upbringing is. If they're in a situation where either they think it's going to be funny or they want their feelings or hurt. Yeah, I try to hurt someone else. It can come out. So draw that line in the sand. Make that hard stop and enforce it and enforce it. And just to be clear, I mean, kids are going to be like, I mean, kids are kids, right? I can have that very serious conversation with Gage and maybe his friends throw one of those words around. So he decides to try it out. But he knows without a doubt that if it gets back to me, we're going to have a problem. I'll be honest with the adult words, he knows. I'm like, listen, you're probably going to use these words at some point. Mom uses them. It is what it is. And he knows I'm probably not going to get super mad about that. But he knows that those words that we discussed, we're going to have a problem. He understands it. Yeah. And again, here we are. And this incident happened, still haven't heard from the parents of the child. They said it. Wow. And don't expect to. Yeah. I think there is this level of, I don't know, in general, like denial, shame. And also this justification. A lot of times that attaches to bad behavior that's just gotten way too common. There is a difference between maybe, and again, I'm not sanctioning it, and again, I don't use the word. But sometimes singing along with a rap lyric, or singing along with a hip-hop lyric, or even just commonplace pop songs is in there now. There's a huge difference between that versus directing the word at a person who is a member of that group. And again, it's, how do we explain that to our kids? I think we just do. We just do. Yeah. If you don't, if you don't, you're putting it on another kid to either bring that consequence to your kid, or like, that's on Roman to explain why he can't use it. I mean, that's not right. That's not right. You need to send your kids out with some skills. Yes. I mean, I get, I'm getting so high in the face about this. It just makes me so frustrated. I just don't understand. We pick up so many other things that we try to equip our kids when they're out in the world. And we have to equip them with this information. You can't send them out. They're not understanding what is dangerous and hurtful and what harms others. And just assume they're going to figure that out. I wouldn't, I wouldn't want Gage to figure that out the hard way, because that easily with a different kid or a grown person that goes different. I mean, it goes both ways. I just, and you know, and right after it happened, my initial reaction was we are moving this way. Let me tell you, within an hour, I was looking at different cities and states and schools. My mind was set that we were going to move. And this was before my husband even got home. But I was like, oh, we're moving. We're done. We got to go. And then I had to pause and just question like, "Well, where am I going to go?" Right. And what's going to be different? Because it's not the place. It's going to be the people. And there are going to be people anywhere just like there were 30 years ago in Northern California that think it's appropriate to degrade someone. It doesn't matter where we are, if the people in these communities aren't having the conversations to really stop it, and put an end to hatred and the divisiveness that is continuing to happen. And when I'm not going to go, my mom found out about it. All she could say was just like shaking your hands. Like it's, it's 2022. - Yeah. - You know, and these are things and they're black Americans who are at 70, 80, 90 years old who've been dealing with this for 70, 80, 90 years. And when do we say enough? Let's just stop this. - Yeah. I mean, thinking about you sharing that story, we're the same age. I mean, that happened to you 30 years ago. So this isn't, we're not talking about things that are happening to our grandparents anymore guys. We're not talking about things that are that happened to two generations ago. We're talking about things that happened to you and happened to Roman a week ago. This is right now. This is not 1960. This is not, you know, I don't, it's right now. It's continuing to happen. And we have to continue to be vigilant about it. - And we had a couple of conversations that were started around this. And Roman shared with me that were a couple other black kids at this school that have been called the N word. And of course, we had a conversation around black history month, which concluded in February. And during black history month, Roman looked at me and he said, "Mom, during black history month, "any time we're talking about slavery in school, "I get really uncomfortable because everyone turns "and looks at me." And I just said to him, and I felt it 'cause I was the same way, but I turned and said to him, you know what you need to do? You need to turn around and look back at them because gone are the days when we are going to start ostracizing the victims of the slave trade. And if somebody tries to look at you some kind of way or say something, I need you to look at them and say, what is wrong is that there are people in here and your ancestors may have thought it was okay to enslave human beings, right? And to treat human beings as property. There's something wrong with that. And just equip him with those skills to say, like, I'm not wrong here. The color of my skin is not wrong here. What was done to my ancestors is not my fault. We were victims of a community and of a society and of a country that wronged an entire race of people. And I was like, there's no shame in you being a black young man. There should be pride there. And he is proud until someone tries to say something to intentionally pull him down. I hate that happened. - Me too. - I hate that I can see how, especially the first time, right? I can see how, you know, that just changes something in him that I'm sorry it had to happen. - And I hope it doesn't. - Yeah. - And I hope that he will walk through this world with his head held high, but I also know that in that instance, there was a bit of boyhood innocence. - Right. - That has been lost. - I just shattered something. I hate that. Yeah. So. - I think the purpose of us sharing that story, or me, because Tara had no idea what I was going to say. - I did. - She got me all riled up now. - So we're gonna go, we're gonna turn this microphone off and go meditate for a few minutes before Tara goes out in the streets because she might be driving now. - I might be looking for the kids. You better watch out. We will not let that happen. But again, the purpose of us having this conversation is just to make sure that each of us is mindful of our role in the global community as mothers. I really believe that it takes a village and we are all responsible for the well-being of all of our children as they grow up in this chaotic and sometimes crazy world. Let's do our part to make it a little less chaotic for them. Yes. (laughs) Sorry, I was just really listening to you. And I would just add to that the consideration that sometimes your kid is gonna have to be a little uncomfortable to bring some comfort to a wider group. And that's part of the journey. So just when you're out there talking to your kids, please think about the kids that they're interacting with every day and how that stretches. It's so important. - Thank you for that. And thank you for your friendship and thank you for your advocacy and all our ship, as always. - And podcast family, thank you for tuning in and being a part of our journey. Some of our episodes are real funny, but all of our episodes are always just gonna be real, real. We're just two moms. - We're real, real. - We're the real, real, real, real, real. - We're just going through this each and every week and trying to do the best we can. And we know that if you are having any sort of struggles reach out to whoever you can that brings you comfort and find that safe space and that safe space to land and to talk. And if you ever want to reach out to us, you know you can find us at Black and White Mom, cast and tear and eye. We'll be here. We thank you for listening. We will be back next week with another new episode. Same time, same place. Take really good care podcast family. [BLANK_AUDIO]