Ollie Watkins: That Semi-Final Goal Changed my Career Forever

Just take me back to that semi-final, go on, man. Because they're superstar players, who have done amazing things in their careers and they're going to be legends for the game forever. There's never, ever done what you've done. There's a few times in training, you know, I linked up well with Cole. And like whenever I ran, he just fine-me. Like it was just, it was just easy. I didn't have to do anything. He just put it on a plate. So when I saw that he was coming on with me, I remember I was warming up with him and I said, like, I said to Lewis Dunn, could be in Henderson, I said, I'm going to score it. Welcome to Rio meets. Before I head off to the World Cup in the States, I'm doing a bit of prep. And I'm going to be speaking to some of the biggest names in the game. An Airbnb sorted us out with another brilliant stay. So let's see who I'm welcoming onto the pod next. Yes, Oli, you're setting it. All good. Are you doing all right, Massey? Are you? Yeah, we'll get in the coming one. Nice to hear that. Yeah, it's nice one. There you go, you're in there. Nice one. Are you been? All good. All good. Fit, fight, fit. Yeah, feeling, feeling healthy. Yeah, that's good, man. You look healthy, you look like you've got a tan, bro. Been out in the sun. It's been sunny enough. A few days, we had a little break before I didn't go away in the national, so. South of France. With the family. Where have you got? It's a can. Oh, it's master, I think. Yeah, it's my spot. So what do you do to chill now? What do the players do when they're just like relaxing? Outside of the game. Like, for me, I don't really have, I've started to play more golf. Oh, yeah. That went to play golf yesterday. I'm horrendous. But it's more the fact that socials, like, you're out for four, five hours. You're not thinking about anything. So I don't know, but I don't feel like you've got enough time to do stuff. The schedule's just relentless. You know, it's my, because obviously, when we agreed for the interview to go ahead and I was looking at your journey, it's my journey, and it really, like, lead to, yeah, to scoring in like a semi-final for England. What's that like, man? Yeah, and you know what? That's, I think, for me in this stage of my career, like, when I'm walking out in the tunnel, everyone deals with stuff like everyone reacts to things differently and has, like, some people allowed in the tunnel. I kind of try and think back to, you know, I was playing in, like, non-league and-- So you're that reflective of that moment? Well, like, little things like, we play in the Europa League, and I was looking down at, like, the Europa League on the carpet and thinking, like, you know, like, enjoy it, because you've come so far. I'm playing in Europa League semi-finals, playing in the Champions League. Their experiences that I've always tried for when I was younger, and I've done it, so just enjoy it more than, you know, put pressure on yourself. So I'll just take it back to, like, when you were playing for Exeter. I won't. What was your genuine, like, aim when you were breaking into the first team there? I was-- I was you looking at England and thinking of England. I never, never. Never. So I was always just-- I was trying to better myself and then just get a move to somewhere else, you know? A lot of the players that I played with were experienced players and older players, and they'd already played the game, so for, like, Clinton Morrison and Matt Oakley players, like that. So I would hear their experiences of what they've achieved and playing for their country. I'd always aspired to do that, but I never thought too far ahead. So I was always looking to just try and, you know, progress and then maybe get a move to somewhere bigger and then use it as a stepping stone. And you started playing WIVI, I'm right. I talked to the research guys and that-- Was it WIVI? In the youth team, like, so I kind of always switched. I'd always drift out to the wing, because that's what I found, like, the ball was always going there. So I was just like, I wanted to-- I remember my manager, Paul Tisdale, he used to say, like, you can't just stand up on the wing and just try and take people on. Like, it's what if the ball doesn't come? Like, you need to affect the game. And then that's when he started to move me more central. And I found that was good for me, because I was always involved in the game and wasn't just waiting for things to happen. That's why you're a good move, and that's why you move well across the line, then. Yeah, I think so. And sometimes we start games now. And I need to-- I need to, like, I feel like I need to be involved. So when the games are very slow and stuff like that, I don't feel like it helps me, because you've got to be very patient. I may end up coming out of my position. And then the ball goes across the face of the box, and I'm not there. But when teams are going man for man, and I'm fighting with the centre back, and the space for me to run, I feel like that's when I'm at my best. I remember. I don't know. So you couldn't sit there and be like a harlan, and you could just sit there and go, I'm going to take two touches in a half. And I'm going to wait and be patient. You've got to go on, and you get starved. Sometimes, like-- So what he does is that that's very difficult to do, because you have to be patient. And obviously you have to trust that your teammate is going to put the ball there. I've watched old clips of when you used to play for you night and stuff, and like, vanistery. Whenever the ball's going wide, the ball's always getting crossed. Whereas now we're kind of told to, if it's not on, then come back and make passes and stuff like that. So there can be opportunities where, well, times and a half, where I may not get a shot, which for a striker, you're thinking, you should be at least having three or four shots of game. But if you're playing against a low-block team, and it is very difficult-- Do you ever look back and think about-- I mean, I'm going to take you back to another team, Brentford, and that front three that you guys had with BMW that were called? Like, what's your off-walk, my fault when you think, like, you're smart straight away, when you see that? Now, just because it was such a good time, we, like, Brian and Sayid knew of each other, two French boys, like, Sayid couldn't speak much English. And Brian was kind of like the gel in between. But we just had, like, such a good connection. Like, I knew that Sayid would do all the tricks and stuff like that. I'd just leave him to it. But he would always-- I always knew what he was going to do. So after the four or five stepovers, I knew what he was going to do. He's going to play a one, two, or he's going to-- an in-swing cross to me. So-- And Brian was always so unsalphish, like, whenever we were around the box, or there's times where he could maybe shoot. He would always look to cross it and set me up. So yeah, it was an enjoyable time, and it's nice to see that. Yeah, they've had good careers, and they're successful. It's so-- I don't know. I don't know if it was around that time, or even before that, where probably, when you leave it, or when you're leaving it, where he was like, that's the resident number nine. Like, when was it you actually thought you had that's my position, that's where I want to play in that, because you said you were being swapped over as a kid. Yeah, so we worked on it a lot in training. Thomas Frank was really good with that, and he just said to me, whenever we're going into the box, running between both centerbacks. And I want the number eight, or the winger, whoever is crossing the ball to always put it there. So I knew from-- for me, it was quite simple. And then I found like, I-- yeah, like I said, I started to get my goals from the middle of the box, and then I grew in confidence, really. I think clear, like, definitive lines, and like rules and regs almost for players, especially the wire players for forwards like yourself. If you know this and get there, I don't want to know clips and fancy stuff, just put on it. Nine times out of ten in that area, it makes it so much easier for you. 100%, 100%. If you don't have that relationship with the wire player, and you don't know what they're going to do, I think I feel like it's very difficult. Because crosses-- I feel like it's a simple way to score. I think football can be made a lot more difficult than it needs to be sometimes. If you have a good crosser of the ball, I just need to beat you. And if you put it in the right area, I need to get a touch on it and it should be good. What does it know I am, or you want from you, as a striker as well? Because I always think that now with strikers, I always have two strikers in our team while against us. So it's very much one to come, short one goes long. What's the ask of a number nine when it's just you up front and are alone at Asdenville now? Well, first of all, I think taking away goals or sists, stuff like that, the number one thing he says is always to work hard and do your job. So if the-- it's not meant for a man, but if the centre-back is-- if you're dribbling with the ball and the centre-back is running with it into a half, I need to follow him and pressure him. So straight away, I think it is quite demanding our job. Sometimes he will say to me and the number 10 to take all four players and the keeper. So for that off the ball stuff, it is physically really demanding. But then again, I'm seeing as the goal scorer and all eyes are on me. So yeah, obviously to produce goals or sists. But yeah, I think the crucial thing is to work hard without the ball. He's known for improving players for winning. But just in terms of him, what specifically does he bring to you as an individual, like, would that experience that he's got as a coach? Because he knows players. He does, yeah. But he's not said to me specifically, like, you need to do this, you need to do that. I think the structure of the team has helped me, obviously, the way we play and some things that I've done with an individual coach-- one of his coaches, Rodry. We do a lot of work on how I can isolate the centre-back what may be the case. movement I can do to put me in the best position to score. So there'll be things that I do with the number 10 like Morgan, Rodgers or the wide players when they get the ball, what movement to make. And that's one thing that I hadn't really done like with an individual coach like that. So I think that's been massive for me. You're the only Englishman, one of the guys who are on the scene told me this just morning. You're the only Englishman until if you knew this already. So the only Englishman to score 10 plus goals in the last six seasons. Yeah, I knew that. I knew that perfectly. My friends and family, they always send me stats and be like, "Ah, this is what you achieve with little things like that." So, yeah, it is. And I do keep an eye on these things that I think they're important, you know. And like I said, to always strive for new things and to reach new goals and new targets. So yeah, it's something that I'm really proud of and I think it's not bad company. The two other players that are not English that are up there as well. Who are they? Harland and Sala. You know what? Strak has always known these little details, you know what I mean? It's weird. Also, you spoke to a lot about hard work and like, is that your reward, like consistency? Like when you know your working hard, you're going to get that out of the back. Yeah, I think when things aren't going for you, I think. When you're constantly putting hard work in, you know, the rewards may not come straight away, but in three, four weeks you reach the rewards and then that's what you look back and think, "Ah, that's why I did it." That's what I think anyway. I think that it always pays off if you work hard. There's no way that you can't be successful and succeed. Who's your tough opponent? If you can give me like one or two defenders you've found always give you a tough time. In the Premier League, always tough time before Tiago Silva. He was so clever. So I played against him obviously at the end of his career, but it still felt like he was 25, you know? He was always, I feel like the best defenders of the ones that kind of read the game and they give them their clever, they're clever in a way as they don't get exposed. So you'll see a lot of teams now like Barcelona play a high line and we play an offside, which I would like to play against because there's space. Whereas the other defenders like Tiago Silva, he wouldn't do that. So he would always cover himself and give himself an extra five, six yards. So I'd never have chance to run in behind and beat him in a race because he would never put himself in that position. He was always like one step ahead, I think he's seen everything, he's obviously played the game at the highest level. So I think for me, Tiago, Tiago Silva is the toughest one. Just on defenders, Ezri Conzer, he's going to play for England in summer. I think he'll be him and Gay, sent the backs. Well, what's his best strategy? You train him every day, you see him. I think the patty is so composed on the ball. So I've played with Ez, I think I've played with him the most out of all my teammates in my career. So I played with him at Brentford and then all the time at Villa and I felt like he had always been not spoken about enough and he's just so composed on the ball. And even when a player gets him in training, there'll be times where he'll dribble out with the ball and then obviously he dribbles across you so you can't, you either foul him and he's ahead of you or you have to let him run. He'll never be playing like a long diagonal or anything like that. He's always keeping it short and he's comfortable on the ball. But he's quick as well so he never gets caught out like that and then he's aggressive. So he's got a lot of good action. I must give you confidence as a teammate when you're playing and you know you've got that behind you. Yeah, exactly. And I judge a player and attacking player as well if they've gone past Ez. So we played Belonja and there was a winger that went past Ez and I was like, he's good because Ez doesn't get beat often. Just to go back to Emory. When he first came and obviously you guys must have been like fans don't understand it, players are like fans and we're like, we're looking at the media for information and stuff and you hear about Emory coming in. Like what was one of the biggest discipline changes that happened when he came in? Because there's always going to be a shift and difference. What were they looking like when he changed? It wasn't discipline as in like, you're turning up late for training, you're fine. He's not big on that. Online time ends out to training and stuff like that. But it was more, I remember we came out to training and we just didn't really do much with the ball. It was all about structured shape and I was surprised as well really like Spanish coach you think maybe like a little bit of football. Yeah, it was just 4-4-2 basic running, like moving to the mannequin, pressing without the ball. It was surprising really because you don't think that from a Spanish coach. I didn't know what to expect really. I know he did really well at Arsenal but I hadn't watched much of Vilario and stuff. I think that was the main thing how drilled he was. And yeah, he was basically telling us to just enjoy it. We're very like privileged men to do. He always reminds us how privileged we are to do our job and we get paid handsomely to play football at the end of the day. So yeah, he just reminds us that all the time. He still says it now. That's good. I always found that good managers always talk beyond football to try and get your attention and future free-shay where you are and stuff. And I've never managed it. You played under Gerard. Yeah. And he's like, what was first impressions like with him? Yeah, like when Gerard came in, I was kind of. I was excited. I didn't know how he was going to. I've seen Gerard obviously playing stuff like that. The last time I saw him was when he was playing for Liverpool. And then next thing you know, he's your manager. So I was really excited just to see how he was. Obviously, he's played at such a high level. I thought he's so relatable. He's been in our position. He knows how we feel. He can talk to you on a level, whereas some managers, for example, are boss now. He's the boss. You don't really have many conversations with him. But I like it like that. It's good. But yeah, with Gerard, it was really good at the start. I felt like we were playing some good football. But there was a good feel around the club. And then things changed a little bit when he had a new assistant that came in. I think things had changed. And we just didn't hit the ground running at the start of the season like we were before. But I took a lot of. I felt really bad. I felt terrible when he got sacked. We found out on the coach. And I don't know. I felt like I took a little bit of responsibility for that because he's looking at me to me and all the other attackers to score and produce. And we weren't doing that. So I felt a little bit. You were trying your chest, yeah? A little bit, because as the attackers, you should be scoring. And there was one game we batted top them first half. But we just couldn't score. We just had so many chances. We just couldn't put it in the back of the net. And they came out second half. They destroyed us, to be honest. Song or Hatrick, I can remember that day and it was just like, yeah, it just wasn't going our way. But as a manager and as a person, he was a really good guy. It's my. Because a lot of people, a lot of fans, we hear them talking about players nowadays. They just think huge money, all the adulation that goes a bit. They don't have those feelings. They don't take responsibility for those type of situations and just think, oh, I've got my free four-year deal. I'm fine. New manager, let's move on. But clearly that's different. Yeah, it's not like fans. I think it's easy for fans to say, oh, it's all right. He's going to get into his flash car like he doesn't care. But it's like, no, even if you're in a flash car driving home, you're still thinking, oh, my God, we got back today or you hate the feeling of losing. It doesn't make it any much better. I know that's easy for me to say in a privileged position, but it doesn't make things better. If you've lost the game, you're still annoyed and you can't do anything to change that. No, I agree. I try to tell people that all the time, but it's like so difficult when people see how you're earning so much money. They just bypass that completely. Just staying on manager, Southgate. How strict worries tactical instructions and expectations that you put on you guys? I think for me, I think Garif was more of a leader as in he was the face of it. His assistance to the ball and did quite a lot of the tactical work on the pitch. He was really clever with the way he approached things so he would take training and the build-up play and stuff, the set pieces and stuff that the day before the game and the training. But Garif was more of a, he would always stick with you, even if he felt like we hadn't played well or there was situations in the media. I felt like he always had your back and was there to put an arm around you. It was amazing to play under him and obviously it's a shame that we didn't get for him to live on a high like I think he would. was wishing to. Was it someone who lost his temper much or not? Because I always look at him and fascinated us to like what's he like and I didn't think so. I think he was very cool and there was not times that there were if there was times where you know we can play better at half time he may say something but there's there's not many times I can remember him being very angry I felt like he was always quite calm and collected. I think he was like he was obviously criticised at the end and like could you could you understand that or was you like I must disguise that a lot for the country. Yeah not really I think like people think obviously with the England squad in the Italian and the amount of players there are that like we should be beating teams like six no every game and it's just like it's not it's not it's not like that like football's not that easy no matter who picks a team like it's always going to be difficult so I think to go back to back finalists of the Euros you know is an amazing achievement and there's things that he that he's done that not many England managers have done so it's a difficult it's a difficult role to roll to have and I feel like you're always going to be scrutinised you know whether you win or whether you lose so yeah I can't speak highly enough of them. So just take me back to that semi-final goal man like what's that feeling like because they're superstar players yeah you've done amazing things in their careers and they're going to be legends for the game forever there's never ever done what you've done I know yeah just go ahead like that just tell me the feeling and like what was that night like for you. Yeah so previously to that I felt like I'd had a great season with Villa obviously we got to Champions League and then I'm used to playing every game for my for my team I think I've missed maybe two games that season and I can remember voice note my mate saying it's like they're getting me wrong it's good obviously the Euros but like I'm just not playing you know just I'm not happy to just be sat here like watching all the games I know someone's got to be a cell but at the end of the day but I felt like I could bring something to the team by coming off the bench you know for the last 15-20 minutes whatever that may be and he was like no mate you're going to have your moment like just keep positive keep positive and then yeah that night obviously I came on a squad and yeah it was the best feeling ever just because I called it as well I could see that there was quite a lot of space the game was opening up like it was hot the tempo was slowing down a little bit and there's a few times in training I linked up well with Cole and like whenever I ran he just fine me like it was just it was just easy I didn't have to do anything you just put it on a plate so yeah we when I saw that he was coming on with me I remember I was warming up with him and I said like I said to Lewis Dunn could Dean Henderson I said I'm gonna score it and they were like make sure you do when you when you do run over so like on my face like I'm like that's I'm like because I could see them but yeah I called it and they're running over to me and yeah it was just it was the best feeling ever because I was I called it but I was surprised still because I've actually when I've got the ball on the turn the defenders quite close to me so I'm thinking I'm just gonna shoot here and maybe I may get a corner or something but as he's opened his legs I'll hit the ball so sweet and it just it just didn't move and that's when it's when I get to the corner it's mad because I mean like like you say about being the sabbest it's a very difficult position to be in like you say when you're the main man at your club you're scoring you're confident and you go at national level and it's not working out and as the way you might have envisioned it going like hat I mean it's for a lot of listeners a lot of viewers I think it'd be nice to hear you explain how you get your head run that mentally stay in tune for games how difficult that is I think so that was the first kind of experience I had had of it at this level so before when I was at X turn stuff like that I was used to it but then when I moved I was just used to playing and starting regularly for you know six seven seasons so then to have that and probably like the the prime time of my career it was difficult but it's understandable as you know I have Harry Kane in front of me who speaks for himself but I've kind of taken it now as sometimes the game is tight you know for this first 60-70 minutes so when the game opens up it's probably it's good to come on fresh you've watched the game as well like when I'm on the bench I'm not just chatting like have a ban over the boys I'm focused on the game and seeing what the defenders do so I can so it's like you're studying straight away yeah because you never know when you can you can come on there's been times where I've been sat on the bench and I can come on in the first 20 minutes for example so you've got to be ready yeah and I just study what's going on what the defenders do like if they're aggressive if they if they get dragged down into pockets and stuff like that so yeah I do I do focus when I'm when I'm on the bench well you know I have to say thanks because you gave me an unbelievable night because actually they I was in the stands Adele was in front of me it was like superstar showman yeah yeah and then our um he was done in cup without Ed Sheeran yeah yeah yeah because it came into the game yeah yeah I don't have an a night out with Ed Sheeran that night he was just mad and obviously you scored the goal it was just like wow did Iceland's on the cake was a night out like good that's for another another podcast that was a good one it was a good one but it was um it's that is that a career defining moment for you so far yeah definitely so I just feel like people have noticed me more and will always say like are you you've given me the best moment of like they'll say like you've given me the best moment in an England shirt and stuff like that which is mad because you got like becs is free kick um some you know massive goals and people's choose mine you know so yeah it's nice it's definitely maybe more recognised and I think after that then maybe I put a little bit more pressure on myself and then there was more pressure on me to deliver as well seen as I was called such an important goal I think man was there any other people like like new people in your DMs like any stars coming onto you and going nah thank you that because it's different now it's actually yeah yeah quite a few yeah becs message to me um yeah just reaching out saying like amazing well done mate um but yeah just I had I quite my phone was pinging off it was too much I've never had anything like that that's what it must be like for like when I don't miss every every every game to be honest but yeah it was it was another level that must be a nut mess it would be incentives to be going again now yeah I think that feeling as well like I was on a high for a week like I I didn't sleep much that night I think I scored like two hours sleep and I was just up the whole day buzzing in training and stuff the latter saying to me like mate come on like focus now you still like you still like bouncing around like buzzing but um yeah that was that was the best moment for me now to fast forward to where we are today like Thomas Tuchor the new mate England manager like what what has changed since he's coming because Garif had it a set way there was great relationship with a press he changed it all so positive yeah the country absolutely behind the team um you were playing a certain way getting to the latter stages of tournaments most successful England team in my journey in my lifetime um but new manager now yeah what's the difference he's very hands on with like tactical work and stuff like that he's he's very like joky around the lads when it's off the pitch like you'll be playing table tennis and stuff I think I'll be yeah he's yeah unbelievable unbelievable yeah he'll be anyone we've got a table down there I'll play you after no no no not me no no no I'm rubbish but he's good so he'll be having like jokes with the lads and stuff like that but then when it's time to work on the pitch he's very very serious um stern and he gets his point across massively so I've only had a couple of camps with him but yeah his energy is is really good and he makes it clear I think that's that's one thing when you're on the pitch he makes it very clear like what you need to do off the ball and then on the ball yeah I think that's that German mentality isn't it like yeah gotta be efficient both sides of the ball yeah and I think he wants everyone to just react and get the ball back and kind of like smother teams and have that arrogance you know to like we're England at the end of the day and I feel like maybe fans of watched games and previously not thought are they're at their top level so I think what he's what he's doing is is really positive so far you mentioned him talking about confidence and arrogance does he talk about that yeah I remember when we played against whales and I think in the first half we were three know up within you know 20 minutes and we literally we did suffocate them like they didn't they couldn't get out their half really they didn't have many opportunities and that was the game plan that he envisioned and set up for us to do and yeah we got that down to a team and and yeah that I think that's what he wants you to be on the front foot and be aggressive and like I said like he said smother teams just quickly as the anyone beat him at ping pong yet if he's the best I'm not sure someone's got a beating but who's good who's actually good because I need to know I'm I love ping pong Harry might be good he's got good technique yeah he's got good hand eye coordination probably all the all the boys some of the boys that probably play paddle as well paddle as well who's got a paddle are you into paddle have you got - I just bugged, it's alright. - I love it. - In the Euros, I was playing Paddle a lot, and we were all playing too much really. They were like, "Lots of you, we've got a game in a couple of days." You need to slow down a bit, but Paddle paddles good. I'm not too good at it though, I would say I'm more a better at golf than. - What are you good at then? What's going on there? - Yeah, you're talking with me. - You're not good at it. - Just chilling. - Duff it. - Just talking about Harry Lack, 'cause he's doing so well by a minute now, the amount of goals he's almost like. He's gone up levels again since leaving Spurs. What's he like as a captain? You've been in England captain a bit. What's he like as a leader? - Yeah, I think he leads by his performances. I wouldn't say like he's a big vocal leader, but he leads by his performances, is the way he trains, the standard on everything he does, that the way he executes passes and his finishing, I think that's just something to. He's a good role model and someone to look up to for the young boys and how to, to be a professional and how he trains every day, I think. I think, yeah, sometimes. And you don't need to be like a vocal leader, like obviously you would have played with Roy Keane, I'm sure he's probably shouting and screaming and demanding like that. But no, he just. Yeah, I think the way he trains and the way he's always quite positive and focused is. - He's leading by example. - Yeah, leading by example like that, I think it is massive. - I like listening and seeing what training would be like and the shooting drills, I just sit behind them, watch the strikers, it's like. And when I first got the England team, it was like sheeran, sharing them right, the Andy Colme, I'd been lit, a T-Share, like the T-Share was the best, like ridiculous. - You've seen some of these goals, a T-Share? - A T-Share, two of them are just bangers, aren't they? - Crazy. - Just in score like an all-goal, like so for me, like all my goals are like, or just in the box like nice tap-ins and stuff like that. Here's just like, he's not scored one of them, he's all just well done. - Sure, he thought he had stroking them in, he's like crazy. In the drills like that, who's the guys like, you go, wow, that's a different level. - Yeah, Harry, is it? Yeah, he's finishing off both feet, like sometimes, you know if you've had a bad touch in the balls under your feet, you'll still find a way to dig it out. - Yeah, to dig it out and he hits it with so much power as well, but like accurately. So yeah, he's by far the best, that was a say. - As a striker, I'm keen to understand, are you discussing your styles or do you see something like that? And he's like, how'd you do that? You ask questions, or is it like, you're a bit proud and a little bit like, I need to keep a bit back for myself and stuff. - No, not really, like I don't ever, like I never have that mindset where I'm like, I'll jellous or, or like, I feel like you're both in your own lane and like, obviously if I see something that I think he like, oh, I can take a little bit of that and put it into my game or then I do it. But sometimes like, yeah, you have that debate on the discussion on the training field and ask little things, but no, not too much. Sometimes I just see what he does in a scenario when he's in front of the goalkeeper and try and do that, replicate that next time. - Is it any other strikers that you watch on, analysing, you take Bix from a tall? - I would do that, that's what I would do a lot of time. - Well, I think it's hard to, in Bappé. - Well, I mean, I can't really replicate that, but I love watching him just because, like he's transitioning from a winger to a striker, like we were talking about earlier, but he's just so deadly. He's just so deadly and he's like, he's just electric. You never know what he's gonna do. He can chop you and, yeah, I feel like he's exciting to watch. - I wanna think about in Bappé, I always think about Michael Oren. - Really? - Yeah, because like, - On the pace, yeah. - Deadly killer pace, like, and when Michael's young, I think it was like, he was like, he was unplayable, crazy. - But I saw something, I think, you said before about Michael Oren, that he couldn't do it through cones or something. - No, if you've done it, so Grenhade was the manager. Even people were laughing, yeah. But Grenhade was the manager, he was a skills man. So he's warm up, so he's always based around doing, like, juggling and going into that cones and team stuff. - Yeah, yeah. - So competitions, so he'd be like, three teams, go through the cones, ping it back on the volley, you gotta bring it down and go, Michael Oren used to go warm up, but he might go, oh fuck, so he was like, devastated, like, he used to hate it, 'cause he wasn't great at it. But if you said, get from the halfway line to the goal quickest, even if there's players in the way, Michael's getting that quick up, - Yeah, really, buddy. - Just, yeah, to understand the where to be, how to get from A to B on the pitch. Anyway, he had jet hills, he was just so fast. But just talking about it, we interviewed him on the show before and we had meetings, and he said that you're in him chat. - Yeah, so I speak to him, like, at times I felt like, when I'm going for a difficult period or something like that, I can speak to you, like, I can speak to the misses, I can speak to my friends and stuff like that, but they're always gonna have a biased opinion. So, like, I'll play a game on my misses, go, oh, you played great, I'm about, we lost four nil, what you know about. So, sometimes, she's not the best person to speak to. - Love him and love him. - And then, yeah, I know, and then also, also my mates, as well, they do, they will have a biased opinion and put the blame onto someone else, and, you know, I want to be accountable for that. So, I just reached out to him. - So, you took it on yourself to find these numbers and speak to him? - Yeah, well, he followed me on Instagram, like, we followed each other on Instagram, and I just thought, I'm just gonna message him, like, who better? Like, hello, and like, I feel like he doesn't get the paul that he deserves, so, reached out, and I was just like, mate, like, are you free to chat, whatever. He was in Dubai at the time, and he rang me, and was just saying, look, I feel like when you're at your best, like, when you play aggressive, like, you're a nightmare for defenders, and that's where I've seen you at your best, like, and yeah, I was just, like, getting kind of little, like, nuggets, like, you said, from him, and I just feel like it's, like, who can really do that? You know, being in a position where they can reach out to someone who's won the ball and door, and. - You see the way he slapped it on the table for the interview, as well? - Yeah. - He slapped it in the middle of the screen, right? - Yeah, yeah. - I wish I could do that, as I can flex through that. - That's true, it's a nice look. But that's quite telling the fact you as a person, really, that you have that humility to be able to reach out. This is someone who's playing in the Premier League, playing in the Champions League, and you're still looking for that extra 1%. - Yeah, because I always want to improve, I always want to get better, and I think, like I always want to, like, I'm never happy, I'm never satisfied, so I'm always, I'm not thinking, oh yeah, like, I'm in the Premier, like, relax. Like, I don't want that to kind of go away. I'm always striving to, you know, push for minimum to be where I am, and then, you know, go on, and do better than what I've done before. So, yeah, like I said, to reach out to him and get some advice is, yeah, a nice feeling, and an amazing thing to be able to do, and you just learn from the best, really. - Just talk for going back to England camp, like, yeah. Who was the first, like, even maybe unexpected person to make you feel welcome when you're walking to England camp? 'Cause we see all the pictures of you guys getting out of your cars in your trackies. You like doing that, that, that, the drip stuff, yeah, the drip stuff, yeah. What's going on? When's that coming? - Yeah, I do. - How would you be happy to be doing that? - I'd like to wear my own gear. - Yeah. - I would as well. - A few sponsors. - But some of the French squad, what they wear is crazy. - The French squad out there on it. - It's crazy. - But to be fair, they perform as well. So, I feel like, yeah, they can do it. But now I'm happy with our tracksuit. - Yeah. - Yeah, whatever. - No, no, so, so, when you were walking to England, which was England squad, who was the person that you thought, well, that made me feel really comfortable and welcome when you got there? - On my first squad, I was tight with Luke Shaw, actually. - Oh nice. - Yeah, so Luke, I just found like he was, like he was just dishing out, Banner. You know if someone has like, dishes Banner at you straight away. And then you're like, poured them back. - I spray it a lot. - Yeah, it's a nice break. It's a good, well, some people, I think, keep themselves to themselves. And I don't know, sometimes it's not uncomfortable, but it's better. I feel like when you're all dishing Banner out and everyone has, sometimes you're gonna have your little clicks. - Yeah, that's right. So for him to obviously come over and, yeah, it was good. And we still chat now. - Are you still chatting? - Yeah. - That's nice when that happens. And just just talking about training, 'cause I used to think like, going to England, I was always like, especially when I first started getting in the squad, I used to think, and my mates always on to me, but who's the guy in training? Who's doing bits in training? - Yeah, yeah. - Every day. I was surprised you mostly in training, like levels. - Surprised me the most. It's different because there's so many, there's so many good players, but like in the Rondo's, like I'm like, you don't wanna go in, like I look at who's going in the certain Rondo and then I'm not going in there. (laughing) No, but like, like Rashi is, - Is it? - Like in a Rondo as well. Like sometimes I'm on the outside and he does something over there and he's sending me and I'm not even in the middle. So I would say him, - Everyone says about him, you know what I mean? I've asked people, but he's always one of the guys that I do that. - And the talent is nuts. I think he's, yeah, I can't speak hardly enough of him. - Yeah, I think so. - Like when can the villa as well, didn't he? - Yeah, there was times where like, I was on the bench and he was keeping me out of the team and I was frustrated, not because, not about him, it was just I just wanted to play. But I could understand it, you know? There was times where, like the PSG game, he absolutely ripped them apart and I'm on the side, I'm thinking I shouldn't come on there really. - Because he's the ee-ee. - No, no, but I'm honest like that. I don't have an ego like I thought he was, because you read things and stuff like that, but I knew Marcus is talent and I knew that the manager would get the best out of him and to be fair he didn't like he was unbelievable. His ability is frightening. - You spoke about Morgan Rogers and obviously he's a creator and he'd be a creator in your team only with Aston Villibut, also of England when you go together. And you mentioned Marcus Restford. How important is it to have those good relationships on the pitch to get good outcomes? And how'd you create them? - Yeah, I think for a start it definitely becomes off the pitch. So it does help. The more time you can spend with each other and sit down and just have lunch together like you know how it is, you can have a teammate and you may not know anything about their personal life or not speak to them for ages. And I feel like if I see him going into a tackle or whatever and he gets fouled, I'm there to back him up or I feel like the connection is much better. So yeah, I felt like the relationship is built off the pitch and then the better it off the pitch is taken onto the pitch. I'm close with Morgan. And since he's coming really, we've always been, we've always been quite tight and I think it reflects on the pitch. We're always working hard together. Whenever he gets the ball, he's always looking for me and vice versa. - Do you ever notice conversations like off the pitch like I'd wear a leg in a gym or even the personal one you're going at for lunch or dinner or something like that as well? - Yeah, so I'll always say to him like, well sometimes I say to the ball like boys look for Morgan like give him the ball, he's gonna, 'cause I know Morgan's gonna, yeah, if he's gonna get the ball, he's gonna look for me. So I'm saying get the ball to Morgan. But not only that, not selfishly because of me, but because he's a player that couldn't create things from nothing. You know, he's very talented. He's always gonna look forward and he's probably not gonna just get the ball and play it backwards. He's gonna try and create something and make things happen. - Do you think he starts ringing? - Oh, that's the, why do you have me on the spot, Rio? - That to be honest. - It's a question that we're almost no, man. - Yeah, I'm not the, I'm not the manager's side, don't know. I'm not gonna give the standard media answer, but that I wouldn't be surprised if he did, because he's so talented. He's had an amazing season. He's very confident and he backs his ability. So, and I think you can see the way he's performed this year. I think you can see that he's a very confident guy. So yeah, I think he does, yeah. - That's probably the position. - Just probably he's been spoken about. You mentioned Morgan there. - Yep. - What about you, Burnham? What's his super strength? - His super strength is, I think, he's an all round complete midfielder. So I think that he can do everything and I think his physical capability as well. Getting around the pitch, he always wants the ball. I think that's massive. You know, for a midfielder as well, where you're gonna lose the ball at times, but he'll run back, he'll obviously sprint forward. I think he can run a game and I think his confidence and belief in himself. I think that's one thing that probably takes into the next level. - And you know what, I see people trying to criticize him about his demeanor and stuff. They find him ways that they want to get a pick at him. Your plan with him, surely that's not something you guys look at and guys are problem. - No, to be fair, whenever I've played it in, I think I've looked around and think, you would feel like he's a, you know, 28, but you're all guy the way he handles himself and the way he carries himself. You know, on the pitch, he's throwing his arms around, not like Moning, but, you know, to get the crowd going and I think he gives off a feeling that, you know, just to always believe and keep pushing and I think that's, he takes, I think he likes that responsibility and takes it on his shoulders and I think as a teammate, it's good to see players that do that. - Hmm, I agree. - I love that, I don't have fans trying and media trying pick up players for stuff like that. I think when you're in a team, you need players like that to spur you on sometimes in big moments. - Yeah, yeah. - Pretty cool moments. - It was the one that did it for you most, you think. - Cristiano was like, we had great players like, like Paul Skolls would do it in a more unassuming way where he's like, always available, give it to me any time and a day. I've got three or four man round me at Domar, just give me the ball and if you didn't give it to him, you get a look. - Really? - Or you get a little like, real? Fucking give it to me. - Yeah, yeah. - And you're like, you have two man on you, Domar. He's a possible ball. And that just instills confidence in his spreads in the team. But Cristiano was like, you said about you, the big moment comes, if he hasn't got that opportunity to take the big moment, he's not happy. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, whether he scores or not, but why are you giving it to someone else? That's in his mind, he's thinking, how can you give it to someone else? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And that just grew and grew and even when he went to Real Madrid, I think that got bigger and bigger. But Wayne had it as well in a different way. But Wayne was more of a, he didn't mind someone else having that opportunity, but he was like, but just give me the opportunity sometimes as well. - Sure it out. - Where Cristiano was very self, that's that's mine. Do you know what I mean? So different, but there's lots of players that would do it in different ways. But, and again, Juge delivered, Champions League with Ramadjud doing it. So it's understandable that he's doing it based off of experience of doing it. So I'll get it. - For me, playing with players like them, they're always looking forward and looking for me to running behind. Like, for me, I'm staying away. There's no point me dropping in because I'm only gonna go into their space. Like I just need to, you know, my superpowers running that way. I don't need to drop in and be in the pocket there, much better at me than that. So I just know my game, leave them to do it. But then I can run on to that end of their passes. Yeah, like I said, I don't wanna, I don't wanna make a decision. I can't speak hardly enough of all of them. - I'll let you off. - Yeah, yeah. - But after pitch, I think it's important that for players with social media. And I see you, you've, you've underarm her. You've also got to deal with, with Ella. - Ella, yeah. - What's that about? Because normally you won't be able to work with two companies like that. - Yeah, so for me, I've always worn, so when I was young, I was wearing night boots and then when I moved to Brentford, I was wearing, I started to try underarm her boots and I really liked them. And from there, we've always had a relationship where I just felt really comfortable with them. It was a brand that I, aligned with me that I felt like they cared. It wasn't just about sponsorship deal. And yeah, I just felt like it was a bit different as well, everyone wears like the standard night and any day. So I wanted to be a bit different. So yeah, that's why I chose them. - How important is that to you? Like, work with a company that actually gets you and I willing to help you in your journey of being a professional footballer? 'Cause some people like to say, we'll just go, it's a transaction, biggest check I'll go with it. - Yeah, see, I didn't want that. I didn't want that. There was things that they were saying to me, like we can put like, you know, like red light, therapy in your house, like we can all invest in like ice bars for you. Just stuff like recovery stuff off the pitch that, you know, that it matters, you know? Like little things like that can help you recover and those little 1% can help me perform a lot better. So yeah, just to, you know, feel like you're wanted and they care about you, it was important. - So I mean, we go to it now. Five of us started team, best players that you've played with. - Yeah. - No goalkeepers, they don't count. - Right, okay. - Listen to good teams on it, you know? - Yeah, I have. Katiniya. - Ooh. - I forgot he was at the living it. - Yeah, just like the Brazilian, like you would always just do that little, send a defender, Jack Grielish. - Talk to me about Jack, what's so good about Jack? - Jack was, especially when he was at Villa, he had that freedom where he could go wherever he wanted. He was kind of like, he was always like, give me the ball and literally you couldn't tackle him. You couldn't like, he was so strong as well, like, and his ability to move so quickly, his balance was, I think that was probably his best attribute, his balance, I think people, like, you couldn't really knock, you couldn't knock him off balance, like you can't. Yeah, he was, like, I felt like, if he didn't get injured during that period, there was a long, three or four months period where he was injured. I mean, kind of disrupted the rhythm of the team, but I felt like if he had played then, and we were done in a lot better, and then I would have scored a lot more goals as well. But yeah, Jack, Phil Katiniya. - I've got a, do I have a keeper? - No, keepers don't count, man. - Yeah, I've got a lot of that. - In that case, he got a buzzard. (keyboard clicking) Jack Greenlich. - Katiniya. - Katiniya. - Harry Kane. John Stones. - Oh. - Tell me about John Stones. What's so good about John Stones? - John Stones. - He's just so composed on the ball. Like, I remember the first, every time I've gone to England, I've been, I'll be pressing him, and he's just so relaxed. He's so relaxed on the ball, like he always makes the right decision, like, as well, his passing is so crisp. Like, I always notice small details, because my manager before, when I was at XA, he was massive on, like, passing and like, the weight of passing, and stuff like that. So, like, I always pay attention to those little things. But yeah, I don't know, I just felt like he's so composed on the board and he's like a bit like a Rolls Royce. Just smooth, like, yeah, he's unreal. He's one of the best. Like, even to play against, he's difficult to play against. Just because of the fact that you're always, I'm thinking, I shouldn't pressure you. You're just gonna either dribble past me or you would go off, so. Yeah, I can't speak kind enough of Stonzy and yeah, that's where he makes it into the five-assight team. And then I probably say, I probably say Jude. Jude better than him. Wow. Good team, good team. Good team, yeah, yeah, I like it. No keeper, but I like it. Yeah, that's nice, that. What's yours? What's yours? Oh, what's mine? No one's ever asked me that. Well, what is mine? You've got a good. Cristiano, Rooney, Skoles, Gerard, Giggs. Who wins, yeah, I think my team's hurt. Yeah, it's your team. Yeah, that wins it. That wins it, I think. That's my five, I would say. Off the bat just like that. Well, listen, that's a good way to finish. Obviously, it was a big, big summer coming up as well, so good luck with that, mate. Thank you, mate. Good to see you, mate. All right, thank you. Stay healthy. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]