Olivia Miles and Caitlin Clark Enter the MVP Race

This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the Fryer's Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. A backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tramphya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tramphya, proper training is needed. Tramphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tramphya today. Call 1-866-7736 to learn more or visit TramphyaRadio.com. Welcome to the Ringer WNBA show. I'm Syrit Sohi and I'm so excited today because I am joined by Courtney Lundgren. I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm so excited to be here. So you guys go live pretty much, like, honestly, all the time. Like you guys, I know you guys go Mondays and Fridays. I always see you guys going live after big games during big games, as well. And I've been just been so impressed because like, I think what you guys started doing this a year ago, year and a half ago. Yeah, August 7 was our first episode. Oh, my happy anniversary. Wow. Thank you. That's amazing. Well, you guys are making a name for yourselves. And I'm happy to see it because like, as we've talked about the season. Space needs more analysis and more people that are coming in good faith, but just trying to talk some hoops and being real. Absolutely. Thank you for all of that. Like, and just thank you for having us here. Like, we're super excited. I think on our live, we were like, we're gonna be on somebody's important show. Y'all just stay out. We're not telling you who yet. We're just gonna wait till it drops. That's how I felt when I got the email about coming on your guys' podcast. I was like, the mid-majors? Like, they're all over my YouTube. Yeah, I will be there for sure. For sure. For sure. um but i thought that today we could start by kind of like kind of opening up a little bit like opening up like a pop can the mvp conversation he's felt like the entire season asia wilson has had it locked up but in recent weeks olivia miles and caitlyn clark are are re-enter are making it a little bit more of a conversation again i'm not really fully ready to say that one of them has usurped asia i just think the body of work is still so strong um but it feels worthwhile to at least start talking about it again i'm not gonna lie this is gonna be very non-committal from me i just want to talk about everybody that could be the mvp but and but i'm not really ready to i'm not really ready to to dethrone asia how are you guys feeling about it well for me like i mean asia is the she's the best player in the world right like it you can't really like there's nothing to argue that so for the people that are in the comments it's more so like what you said i'm gonna tell you who i like right but i i'm not gonna debate you about asia winning it because never it's asia wilson like you know what i'm saying um but i would agree with you like in recent weeks like i feel like some other people have kind of stepped up to the plate um and i think i think we have to remember that sometimes it's based on this season alone and for me i'm i'm looking at like impact i'm looking at the value uh that that player brings to the team and i think for me that's what i'm looking at as a whole um i think it's like value production and impact that's kind of what i'm looking at for this season so i love olivia miles i mean what she's doing is absolutely phenomenal absolutely incredible haven't seen uh what a rookie of the year and uh and she hasn't been named that but look i'm already calling it or mvp since what candace parker right yeah 2008 right 2008 so um and then candace parker just being inducted to the hall of fame so that's special that's special they have a special player there um and like sakara always mentions what like she did that with fee sitting out half the season you know what i mean um so i love olivia miles um i definitely have to put kelsey mitchell in there for me um when we talk about value impact and production to just the indiana fever um i think you take kelsey mitchell off that team uh i don't know where the indiana fever would be and that's no and that's no disrespect to alia boston that's no disrespect to caitlyn clark i think both are phenomenal players and they bring also good impact to that team right um but i think kelsey mitchell to that team is the heartbeat she's the pulse she's the motor as as she goes that team goes um and i think if you were to ask the league it would be like you know i think when i think of mvp it's like i don't want to play her right you know what i mean it's that respect type of thing where i think kelsey brings we're just like oh it's an assignment today i i gotta run around and chase kelsey all day i mean she's on her 19th 20th what point game consecutive game right so i mean i think kelsey definitely is worth being in that in that conversation um and i think she's owed her flowers yeah so i expected courtney to go to kelsey mitchell route that's all time so i expected it so for me um i'm such like a black and white person i i got two names for me personally but i'm gonna start with always asia always so like for me we talk about what mvp is its most valuable player so i think about it as far as who you don't want to guard who everybody fears to guard and what coach hates to scout against who are you scouting against what is the game plan around so obviously that's going to always be asia asia always does it on both ends asia's like joker we can always give it to her every single year like but you know is that going to set in but for me when i was like thinking about like olivia miles and i was like thinking about candace parker season and kind of what all she did when she did get both i just i just like olivia i feel like right now if we could argue a case that if we talk about the most valuable person on that team we gotta say that it could be her for the way they're playing right now i think that like we said we don't talk about last year but you think about last year minnesota was picked to win it they probably should have won it they got pretty close but they fell up short i think that what they lacked was a point guard and i think when you put her in i think that's what they lacked and i think that's what they lacked and i think that she's it i think that she's done it like courtney said without fee um so i i like her a lot and that's pretty much the my top two names like like i said nothing against caitlin um but i i really like olivia in the mvp space if it's not asia that we're gonna mention i get that i get that like asia leading the league in scoring top two in blocks top three in rebounds yeah the thing that blows me away is on off stats with her 29 points per 100 percent she's on the floor they fall off a cliff they completely fall off a cliff when she's not in the game it's it's incredible she is coming off the only reason that you can even open up this conversation is she's coming off of two games against minnesota and the last eight days right nine days and they are the team that exploits everybody's weaknesses yep so i think seeing the coverage that was on asia for the first game a lot of picking her up high crowding her the ball denials all of that um and then seeing the way olivia closes these games out that's that to me is like man olivia miles does not have the best statistical case for mvp yeah she doesn't have the case over asia or even page or caitlin for or even like man we got like jackie young she just like deserves some love as well right um but olivia has owned the big moments this season and she's been unguardable against all of the greatest defenses and she's been so consistent she's had what maybe like four or five bad games really only two clunkers like in a in a league where you guys know any time anybody has a bad game in the wnba they're going to get clipped like they are going to be on brick center they are going to be on the low light reels you can't really put olivia miles on a low light reel like she is just so steady under pressure that's probably her biggest gift like it doesn't really matter what type of defensive pressure you throw on her she's gonna find an answer to that whether it's taking players taking asia wilson to the rim nobody's taking asia wilson to the rim she already leads guards in points in the paint but she also has scored more points in the paint than anybody against aces other than shakira austin like no one no one no one's even trying to challenge asia in the paint like you can say what you want about the defense she's still way up there when it comes to like the rim protection when it comes when it comes to the blocks when it comes to just sheer defense in the paint like teams cower we just saw we just saw caitlyn clark give up a turnover late in a game um like last last week switch on asia right like those are those are things that like when i think about this and you also start to think about like what's going to define a season right like and the wnba this season unfortunately has been defined about by a lot of things yeah off the court but on the court i think the biggest story is oh my god who is this point guard who has seemingly come out of nowhere now you like all of us you listen to this pod you've been knowing about olivia miles for a while but for the mainstream they're seeing the afro the glasses the flare the passes with both hands the manipulation of the pick and roll she can hit shots from anywhere on the court you're like man like who is that what is she doing yeah and how is she doing it so steady so under control um i'll say one more thing it's the unguardability the the efficiency this is amazing for somebody who has a ball in their hand so much and is creating for themselves so much she is three made field goals and four made threes away from being at a 50 40 90 rookie year wow yeah and i keep saying like she's like been here before i feel like just saying that like she a rookie playing the way that she is like you say leading a team and you can tell the like her team and i always pride the links with this anyway because like you can tell that like they're bought in as a team with her leading the show like there's no jealousy on that team you can tell cheryl it has 100 trust in her to let her run the game and let her do what she wants to do and just that's why she's been successful but i say literally say all the time she's like been here before like what are we watching yeah what does it take for courtney to like to for for cheryl to even be able to put that trust in a point guard though that shows you something and she was on megan rapinoe's podcast earlier this week and she was talking about how they realized during training camp like she went to courtney and was like look like we're gonna do like the you play point guard sometimes you don't like olivia will play off the ball whatever i'm sorry like i'm not gonna do that like courtney i think i think i think we got it with the ball oh yeah i think we're eventually gonna get to this place we might as well just get there now absolutely yeah i mean she's fearless i mean like and i think i think that's that's the one thing about olivia that i love so much she's not scared of the moment um she's fearless she's a leader um and kind of like stepped right into it like rookie or not i'm running this team you know and i think with olivia she's not scared of the moment she's not scared of the moment she's not right like so people can buy into that so not only does cheryl uh trust her right but her teammates do too and i and i think that's a huge part of it as well um they trust her to lead the team they trust her to go uh and and that's a lot and you said it the other day to car would have a fee on the team right because usually that that would be your last shot absolutely right and the team's like no girl you got it you know what i mean um so and she's made everybody better on that think about like natasha howard natasha howard is a player that i was probably cussing out last year but you know real for real for real and it's like the way she's made her look the way she set up kayla last for 10 threes like she's literally made everybody better on that team so i mean i agree it's been amazing to watch olivia's like the great she's like a good balance of like uh a traditional point guard but also that scoring point guard yeah that we've like evolved to like i feel like she does great she's like a good balance of like a traditional point guard but also that scoring point guard yeah that we've like evolved to like i feel like she does both so well like she can run the team um she can facilitate but she can also create for her own self too um and i think that's like the perfect storm type of guard uh now and i think that's an advantage for the links like i feel like either now like on teams you have like either the more traditional guard right or it's like one that doesn't really facilitate well and they just are trying to score and then we're like dang y'all need a point guard you know what i mean or then it's like oh man the point guard needs to score some more but olivia kind of brings both of those things together and i think that's what also makes her so great too yeah 100 i actually wrote about that at the beginning of the season like she is bringing and she talked about this with sue bird she was like i'm trying to bring back the retro a little bit as well like she wants to be the player who passes more than she scores but the way the game is going now it requires the ability to score and i have to say something too because i when you talk about retro i feel like just the game has evolved so much that i say that the point guard has got lost within that it's not necessarily a point guard position anymore per se um and then i say like the center has kind of like evolved too like you know back when we played the center was you post up and you you post up and run the floor you're not shooting no threes you're not dribbling down the floor you post up but now that five is dribbling down the court that five is shooting threes now in mid-range shots um the point guard has gotten lost within that it's not necessarily a the point guard's job wasn't to score the point guard's job was to play defense uh facilitate the offense and run the team that's it you know um but what i do love though is that i feel like uh i feel like it is kind of coming back like that that traditional not so much traditional sense of a point guard but i think in terms of building dynasties and franchises i think having a great point guard is essential i think it's essential i think you try you can't just put anybody in that point guard position and think that it's gonna work out the way you want it to work out um and again that's why i say olivia is so great because she gives you scoring but she gives you that traditional point guard as well yeah um so yeah i just had to say that and because i'm a point guard myself okay so i i'm always gonna root for olivia i love it saying i love it love that we are in a golden generation of point guards absolutely and you're right it looks different it looks different because the requirements of the game have changed right and also those fives are now being asked to switch on to those point guards that's how to be able to stop them too yes and there's only so many that can do it asia being one of them that's why that's why again it's so amazing to me that miles actually like takes her off the off like off the dribble like i don't i just don't see anybody right it's crazy it's crazy yeah all right i have to throw in a couple more names into the mvp yeah absolutely look to me i don't know if we're gonna get into the mvp we're gonna get into the mvp but we're gonna get into the mvp we're gonna get into the mvp conversation she has entered the chat um just everything that she's been doing in the last 10 games in particular yeah the body of the work this season started off a little bit more inconsistent but she's gotten to a place where the stats are kind of just undeniable like on the season 22 and 8 um she's actually this is the one that turned me this is the thing that turned me and i think it's a very interesting and get to a very interesting conversation about like the kind of shots that are rewarded and i think it's a very interesting and basketball today she's actually more efficient than page beckers at this point of the season because she's making a lot of three-pointers and she's getting to the three point getting to the free point uh sorry she's getting to the free throw line a lot and she's been relentless on these drives to the rim her finishing with both hands on these drives to the rim her ability to change um like the course of her direction um like before she takes off after the gather step um just like you saw this against atlanta it was just relentless you saw it against the wings you expected against the wings wings can't yes at the rim for anything but the what she was doing to atlanta over and over and over again um and then turning that into the pick and rolls with alia that helped kk get the 20 point uh career high that she had as well like she's just she is a full-throated offensive engine she's creating more points than anybody in the wnba right now if you combine points and assists she's creating 40. number two on that list is alyssa thomas she's five points lower than her at 35 that's a really big gap for sure that list like she's just doing a lot and i think it's just really interesting looking at like the ways in which she's become efficient because it's like that's always been the mark against her right like the the shot selection now the logo three is back indiana is playing more defense too it's letting her get off in transition as well so she can get those logo threes in transition which she likes to get she's getting more catch and shoot jumpers she's taking i think like 18 19 of her shots at the rim page if you want to contrast with her because i think i think it's a very fascinating conversation like the fact that page is such a dynamite scorer from the mid-range um but she's only taking nine percent of her shots at the rim and she's taking more threes than she ever has before but i do find it fascinating that those two are pretty much locked in at the same place when it comes to to true shooting percentage yeah okay let's go to the next question and i'm going to go to the next question and i'm going to Mine's definitely been like, especially like a double-double machine. Oh, yeah. not for sure but like especially with just like we talk about just like the way even against like last night against atlanta just like she's always a person too like i've always been a fan of her game because she's never been as scared of anybody like even with her coming into the league it's been she's never backed down from anyone she's not afraid of anybody that's one thing i like about her and i think that's what makes her who she is when it comes to just like with her like you talked about the last 10 games like she really has turned a corner because like the shooting at the beginning of the season was horrendous and it's like i don't know if she just like has finally settled down but one thing that and courtney's gonna make this argument so i'm gonna let her say about what her playing off the ball more i feel like last night well yesterday we saw that more about we feel like with caitlin like caitlin has a lot on her sometimes does she embrace does she embrace what she has on her yes but we feel like sometimes she has to work too hard and we say that as far as like we want we want stephanie white to sometimes play her off the ball to set her up more because she can come around off a screen and shoot if she can do a curl so i feel like yesterday we saw that in a few instances of her actually getting freed up on those shots i agree with all that i don't really have anything to add because you're right to car i'll always say that but i that's what i do want to see more of her doing and i feel like we have been seeing that more um but also i'll say this too because it's something that we always talk about in in our we have talked about i know i've brought it up is just her attitude on the court sometimes and i feel like i'll be honest i i haven't seen much of that the past couple games yeah and i have not she really doesn't want that last technical you know and i don't know if it's that or if it's just like you know like because it's just like girl just play yeah just play you worried about the wrong things just play because now you're getting all frustrated now you're turning the ball over now you're fouling you worried about the wrong things um and i feel like the past couple games i feel like she starts to go there but then she she she real back in yes you know and she's staying focused and i think that has a big part to do with it too of just not working herself out of the game yeah because she's so frustrated with the calls or how they're guarding her right instead it's just go make a bucket right you don't be complaining go go get it back go get it back and i feel like that's what she's been doing um everything takara said about her playing off the ball some more i love when she has cc is a great passer she's a but she's also a phenomenal shooter too and sometimes i want stephanie white to treat her as such as a shooter you know what i'm saying like hell i mean i know we talked about the atlanta dream for a little bit but it's just like you know uh ryan taking 23s you get what i'm saying yeah and it's like okay you know we will dedicate some time to listen i want to take cc need to take about 10 threes she come off she could come off some she i feel like a lot of her threes sometimes are like self-creating yeah they're self-created going to the left side step three right a lot of self-created she can do that but what happens if you set her up for success more yeah we want an additional like five more threes yeah we want to see her use more like that like steph right right and it's and it's like no knock to her with stephanie white doing it's just like i want it that's a weapon facts that's a weapon and i want to utilize it to the to the max back right and and for me i feel like that's a lame where it's like man i think i can get her five more easy good looks yes at the basket three point wise that'll really crack this thing wide open yes you know um but yeah no i i everything you said i think cc is i feel like she has turned the quarter absolutely yeah yeah it also feels like she wants that too like there were a number of plays last game where she would last like you know last couple weeks honestly she dribbles the ball up the floor she hands it off to alia or kk and then she does it again and then she does it again and then she does it again and then she does it tells them run the hand off with kelsey yes and then all come off of an action there and then all open up for the curl and i think a number of things have happened the fever i've been trying to do that all season long they were out of sync like there's one thing happening on one end of the court one thing happening on the other end of the court now they're in their rhythm kk has been an amazing starter yes caitlin is shooting more catch and shoot three she shoots 41 percent from catch and shoot threes and i think like 33 percent after even just one dribble so there is a clear difference in how she shoots based on the quality of the shots that she gets yeah and the other thing is honestly like i just think the injuries were bothering her for a while she was coming back she was like trying to integrate all these new moves into her game yeah right like now we're actually seeing all of the pieces of it coming together and the chemistry with alia boston her is also just off the charts right now like her ability to just move on and off like play off of how how she's being guarded like you're seeing less of the push-offs and then you're seeing more of the push-offs and then you're seeing more of the push-offs too because she's actually just like being like she's able to move without the ball and just read her defender and just burn them as well like a lot of it is coming together and honestly like i think i think if the season was longer or if this had started like maybe earlier in the season then like yeah like we could have a legitimate conversation the only issue is that like this has been a season of growth for her and yes and like the other two players that we're talking about i think we've just consistently seen the same things from them i agree i agree 100 and i think caitlyn like caitlyn's so good she's so good but caitlyn has so much room where she year five year six there's no telling what we're gonna see her where she's at how good that she is like it's like certain things in caitlyn's game that like caitlyn doesn't need caitlyn doesn't need to push anybody in to push anybody off i feel like caitlyn can get it done because she has handles i feel like caitlyn has moves to the basket i feel like as far as that i feel like caitlyn this is gonna sound crazy but courtney might know what i mean but i feel like caitlyn has moves to the basket when i say like when i say this like when you a bucket when you a certain player and you a certain scorer you don't need the refs that foul that you get is a bonus like i want her to start locking and thinking like that like i'ma just score if y'all call the foul whatever but i'ma just score and that's a bonus like i want her to lock more into that you know what i'm saying what's your intent are you looking to pass are you looking for the foul or are you looking to score is that there's a difference exactly but i feel like she's coming along to that but i feel like with her like year five year six yes i think that she's gonna be probably two times better than what she is now and she's already good yeah yeah i think like the the reffing point is a really good one because i feel like she was in her head about it yes or in the season and there is something there where she started to let it go a little bit yeah and it's helping because they don't be inconsistent they've been inconsistent all year you're not gonna change it we don't know what they're gonna call they don't know what they're gonna right just leave it alone and just just leave it like get up get a leave it alone you know score on the referees out of spite for them not calling you exactly exactly control what you can control exactly exactly yeah right for sure for sure have i convinced either of you to put her name in there or no yeah but i just like we always gonna put her in a bit me i'm just i'm stuck on my two right now and that's it that's like court courtney can't even really i like kelsey courtney can't convince me kelsey either i'm just stuck on my two i mean my two my two with i mean i got three i mean like i said asia you could give it to asia all day i like olivia too and i like kelsey those are my top three yeah i'm on two those are my top three i got two more that i want to show more this is more like yeah we're like we're like kind of in the range of like you know like we have like the who's actually going to win the mvp and who's going to be in the conversation of it yeah i just i just think that brianna stewart deserves some sort of like honorary award at the end of the season like it's not going to be mvp it's probably not going to be defensive player of the year she'll be all w and b a first team i'm sure but like man the things that she's doing this season she's the only person on this list that could really make the case that she has to carry her team because if you talk about everybody else kate like caitlin clark kelsey mitchell you can both talk about as mvp candidates yeah i think with asia wilson we need to start talking about jackie young that way as well olivia miles has the most well-balanced team in the league brianna stewart has been doing everything for this new york new york uh sorry there's new york liberty team that has just been dealing with injuries all season long like she's turning 32 in a couple of days and she's here and she's like she's putting up her like highest usage and she was 27 most minutes and she was 28 like wow she's leading the liberty in minutes she's leading them in points she's leading them in blocks and steals she's number two in assists and rebounds she's gone from like we've always loved that stewie can do a little bit of everything but she's being asked to do literally everything i know her back every single day her back definitely hurts she needs that she needs that fibo break i think it's a blessing in disguise for everybody in new york man like okay i know i know that liberty is going to be a blessing in disguise for everybody in new york fans are not happy that sabrina didn't make it yeah i just think you know if they could just get like we could just press the off button and the on button again see what happens after the break like i i don't know because that team it's it's a mess and stewie is the only player on on that team that has been consistent at all and she just i just think she deserves shout out yeah always she don't deserve a shout out all every year yeah always what do i say when we play these little games i'm always just like when we're in our chat we might play some little games and i'm always like you can't name asia fee or stewie exactly oh i like that like we're gonna have fun with the game guys let's have fun we can't name it's easy we could name them three every single time oh yeah you know yeah for sure what what are they throw me one of these games oh what is it well uh we do the start bench cut okay um what else have we done we'll do like certain like scenarios like like maybe game or games on the line, this team and that team. this team is playing, who are you taking? It's just literally something that we come up with on the fly if we're doing a live and the game isn't that exciting. Something recently we did that was, we talked about who does the dream, who does the, we went through this, who does the dream want to see in the playoffs? We talked about that, their best road, if they had a road, but who would they want to see? And we played that with other people too, like who do you want to see if you're this team, if you're that team? Who would the dream want to see? They don't want to see anybody else but Dallas. Exactly. That's it. I agree. That's it. I think that's the only team they got a shot against. When we talk about a series. Yeah. Bad times to be a dream fan. Yeah. Yeah. It's a long, long side, long side right there. Yeah. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. The Home Depot has everything you need to launch your holiday season in style. Upgrade your yard with this year's hottest holiday decor, including the show-stopping towering Santa. Oh, I like that one. And his impressive reindeer, both 8.5 feet and both designed with incredible detail that stands out day or night. When you want decor that delivers impact, the Home Depot has it. Make your home Santa's favorite style, with the holiday decor you want, all waiting for you at the Home Depot. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help. ZepBound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. ZepBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZepBound contains Terzepatide and should not be used with other Terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe pain in your neck. If you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, planned to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5970 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Fall is here and Whole Foods Market has everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats, and easy entertaining. Elevate your hearty dishes with tasty bone-in beef short ribs or New York strip steaks with no added growth hormones or antibiotics. And as the fall evenings draw in, why not get ahead of cold season with immunity shots, herbal teas, lozenges, and supplements. Make sure you look for sales throughout the month. Shop fall flavors with higher standards, at Whole Foods Market. Alright, well, let's get into our game here. We're going to play a little bit of green flag, yellow flag, red flag, and within that, we can definitely talk about some Atlanta Dream as well because they have a lot of red flags right now. It's hard to. I had a hard time deciding which red flag I was going to pick for the Atlanta Dream, which might be the biggest red flag, but I'll let one of you guys start. I need to say a red flag? Yeah. Live and die by the three. I need to talk about it too? It's a podcast. Oh, yes, sir. My fault. No, it's not my fault. Yeah. If the three-point shot is not there, the game is over before it even starts. And then they go games where they might go 16%. They go 17%. They're half-court offense. They can't execute, it seems like, for the most part. Yes. They literally just stand. They stand there. It was one possession with. I hate that I'm always on her, but it's like, if you're a player that I have faith in, where I know you can do better, I'm always on your ass, so it is always Ryan, bless her heart. It's like, it was one possession that we watched, and we was like, bro, look, she's still standing there. She has not moved. They don't have any motion in their offense. They literally just stand behind the three-point line and just want to shoot. And it's like, of course, they didn't have Jorda Canna yesterday, but I feel like lately, she's been throwing the ball to the damn stands. So there's been that. But I feel like. I feel like with them, it's like they literally just don't have any motion on offense. It seems like they have no plays. It's like no game plan, just vibes sometimes on offense. Yeah. No. I mean, I agree with that, too. The Atlanta Dream are a red flag for me because on paper, I feel like they should be more dominant than what they are. Yeah. And like Takara said, I hate that you have to keep bringing up Ryan, but she really is the common denominator most of the season. And I think it's because the expectation is just high, right? But I think also at the beginning of the season, she said herself that she considers herself the leader of that team, that they look at her as that leader of that team. So there are expectations that come with that. And they might not always be good, right? But that's what it is when you're being a leader. You have to take that on. And sometimes I just don't see that reflected in her play. I feel like a lot of times when I'm watching them, I feel like everybody else is moving. They're moving at a way faster speed than she is. I feel like, like Takara says, I feel like she relies too heavily on the three. I think she relies too heavily on her athleticism and her skill. So when people talk about, oh, she's great at defense, and I'm like, she could be better. Again, I think she relies heavily on her athleticism and her skill. I think she could be a lot better. And I said this before on our podcast. I was like, you know, I think Ryan does enough. She does just enough. Yes. And I think a number less. Exactly. You know, and I said this for an Atlanta Dream fan. It's like, you know, like if you're cool with that, just enough. I mean, that's not going to win you a championship. Like, you know what I mean? I think if you want to win a championship, Ryan is going to have to do more. And I think she's put more pressure on her teammates to show up in ways that maybe they weren't asked to be. And I say this to Takara all the time, and I hope they don't get on me in the comments, but, you know, when Angel was drafted, or not drafted, when she was traded to the Atlanta Dream, you know, my thing was like, okay, she's going to be more of a role player on this team. I don't mean that in a bad way, but I didn't think Angel was going to go to Atlanta and average 20 points, right? She's not going to be consistently averaging 20 points. I brought Angel here to rebound, and that's what she does well. One of the best rebounders in the league. I brought her here to rebound, and that's what she does. But I feel like as of late with Ryan's inconsistency, shoot, now I'm expecting, like, Angel, you're going to have to get 20, girl. Right. You're going to have to get 20. Right. And you're going to have to get 15 rebounds. You know, and the same thing for Alicia Gray, too. It's like, you know, you got 30, but it's like, girl, it wasn't enough. You're going to have to get 40. Right. You know? Or you're going to have to start having some conversations with your homegirl that she needs to show up. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the thing about it is I hate that when they get in there and they talk about these narratives, it's like, what narratives? We're watching this shit. Right. There's nothing made up about it. Like, the. The people around her and her team, they're moving at a different speed than she is. But again, like I said, if you're okay with that, cool. Hey, cool. Then, you know, early exit for the dream, it'll be the same thing, hamster running on a wheel. Facts. You know? Yeah. Sorry, but yeah, that was red flag. That's big red flag. Sorry. That last possession of the fourth quarter felt like a microcosm of every single. Atlanta dream problem. Like, first of all, you start with Ryan Howard having the ball in her hands. She's not having a great scoring night. She's not being very aggressive going to the rim. You talk about her overusing her athleticism. She's not driving enough. When she is driving, she's very much just trying to barrel through players. She's not really. She just doesn't seem locked in on really focusing on how she can actually get to the basket, which has been one of the biggest problems with Howard. I agree. I think she can be one of the top players, but I think she should be an MVP candidate. She should be somebody who is perpetually. It's not even a question that she's the best wing defender in the league. I got a lot of shit because I was like, no, I would take Sonia Citron as wing defender over her. But it's because of the consistency. She starts off the game. DPO candidate, supposedly. Starts the game on Lexi Hall. Kaitlyn Clark is right there. Kelsey Mitchell is right there. What are we doing? What are we doing? Jordan Kent, like, what's going on? And she's standing around a lot. It's not like she's guarding. She's guarding Lexi so that she can, you know, like, play a lot of help side. And then, at the same time, I'm seeing Lexi gets the rim for the first time in ages as well. Because Ryan Howard cheats way too much on the defensive end as well. Like, she's. Frankly, she's a bit of an aura farmer. Like, that's what she was kind of trying to do in the last possession, too. It's like, okay, eight, the ball in her hands doesn't make sense. That's a Carlos Mescal problem. I don't think he does a great job of running their late-game offense or their rotations. I think that he's done a lot of good things as a coach. That's something that he struggled with two years in a row now. Yeah. And then she pulls up for a three-pointer, and the game is tied. Yeah. Somebody made a post. Shout out to Coach Shauna. Yeah. She broke it down on Instagram, and she actually had what he said in the huddle. And he told her to go at six, wait until six on the clock, and he told her to go attack. And she obviously did not attack, and she set up for a three. And the lane was open. But an up-plus or two, she's also stronger. And she had Sophie Cunningham on her. Like, come on, take her to the rim. She's stronger and bigger than everybody. Anybody who guards her should be a mismatch, my opinion. It always should be. And another red flag, to be honest with you, two of them, actually. I don't know if they have – I feel like it's too many friends in that locker room. I feel like it's too much friendship in there. Everybody's just – everybody's friends. It feels like don't nobody want to hurt nobody's feelings. It seems like everybody's just like – you know, and it's like – I think – I think that Angel has really good court presence as far as, like, leadership. But it's like I asked this question in our live, too. Does Angel give you the person who's going to go in the locker room and piss somebody off at this level? Does she give you that? We don't know. And another one, too, as far as, like, red flag goes, I question if, like, she even loves this game. And I get that. Like, you know, we all got a job to do. You know, we all have jobs. You know, I don't know if she loves it or not. I don't know. She's passionate about it. I think that this is just her job. You're talking about Ryan, right? Ryan. I'm talking about Ryan. I think it's – I'm coming to work every day. I'm a clock in. I think that that's what it is. She reminds me of Andrew Wiggins sometimes. Like, another number one pick that had all the physical tools in the world and really only maximized his capabilities one year of his career and won a title that year, accomplished everything that you would want to do in basketball in that year. And then we just never saw it again. Like, yeah, I've definitely had that thought while watching Ryan play. So I don't think it's out of left field at all. On the angel point, and we'll talk about her layup, but she's a third-year player. She's new to this team. Yeah. Like, I don't know that she should necessarily be the person going in to the locker room and saying, like, what needs to be what, right? Like, they have bets in Jordan Canada. They have bets in Bree Jones a little tough because she hasn't played that kind of, you know, disintegrates your voice a little bit. But also at a certain point, like, I feel like Alicia Gray needs to be like, actually, like, I'm going to have the ball right now. Like, I was the MVP candidate last year. I'm the one that's been carrying us this entire game. I'm the one where every time they get downhill, if I'm a Fever fan, I see the ball in Ryan Howard's hands at the end of the possession. I'm like, thank God, because Alicia Gray is the one that we can't do anything about. And like you said, that's a coaching problem. So I made this point, too, yesterday. If you think about the last three, four timeouts, they absolutely got nothing out of it. Timeout on offense and nothing. So it's like, what are y'all over there doing? Are y'all just up there kicking it, not drawing shit up? I don't know. So and it's like, even with that, people can talk about, you know, somebody made a comment and they were like, well, I mean, Alicia Gray was probably guarded. It's your coach's job to draw a set to get you open. It's your coach's job to have some type of play to have at least two, three options. If this doesn't work, try this. If this doesn't work, read and react. None of that happened. It was just a settle, F it. Oh, I missed it. It's cool. We still going to kick it after the game. I ain't going to be mad at you. You ain't going to be mad at me. It's whatever. Because y'all all love me. Exactly. Exactly. Well, friendship is what brought this team together, right? Like, that's like we kind of we kind of saw that and unrivaled the year before. Like, that's what you and Brittany O'Brien are about. We competing. I don't care nothing about that friend stuff, man. Friendship is keeping them first round out the playoffs every single year. I don't care nothing about that. Friendship cool, I guess. I don't care. No, no, no. We just lost, but we still friends. Okay. Somebody should be upset. Yeah. Somebody has to do something. I always tell Takara that. Like, somebody got to do something. Somebody got to do it. You know, if it ain't going to be Alicia, then Angel might need to be the one. It just seems like there's no accountability from somebody in the circle. Somebody need to do it. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do my Atlanta red flag. Go ahead. And it's in combination with everything else, but Angel Reese's finishing is becoming a downstream problem. For the rest of the offense. Obviously, you have the missed layup going going into overtime. Could have sealed the game right there. That's tough in and of itself. But that's one play. And I don't like to make my basketball observations based on one play. What troubled me more was a first quarter where because she's going up against KK Simpson, who she just doesn't have the strength advantage on. She starts over six on layups. And she was also forcing it a little bit. And when you've been watching Angel Reese in these situations for years, like you start to notice things. The release point has been an issue since she's entered the WNBA. It was an issue in college, too. You can like you can blame any culprit for it at this point. You can take it back to Kim Mulkey, Teresa Weatherspoon, Tyler Marsh, Carl Smesko. Like nobody has been able to get her to change this release point. And she's also kind of perpetually rushed, too. Like she got like I think especially in these big games when she's excited. And stuff like there was the free layup she was going to have. Caitlin's the only one behind her. Caitlin's not going to block her. Like you can just take your time in those moments. You know, even like she had a little bit of time because Ryan took off so early. She had a little bit of time to write that last shot of regulation off as well. And it's you know, it's with Angel. It's like, you know, I try not to harp on the on the flaw. But I think the thing is like matchup basketball, playoff basketball at this level. Like we talked about what's required of point guard. Now we talked about what's required of bigs. Now it's a reductive game. You will get reduced to your biggest flaw. That's what modern defenses will do. And that's what Indiana did. They opened the game with Caitlin Clark getting to hide on Nas Hillman. Yeah. Nas Hillman, I think, only got three post-ups that entire game. Nas Hillman's an excellent post player. But why does she only get three post-ups? Because Aaliyah Boston is doubling off of Angel Reese. Anytime there's even the thought of trying to get an entry pass into Nas Hillman. So Indiana is actually getting. Turnovers off of those plays, as opposed to getting like a great entry pass to a post player against a mismatch. Yeah, there's so many moments like that, like that with with with the dream. And you see it, too, because it's like it's it's not just Angel, right? Like you kind of see this with Jordan Canada as well, because she's not really a shooter. You saw with Jalen Sherrod as well. Like, I do think there are rotations that Carl Smasco can use to mitigate that being a weakness. And obviously, like not having Bree Jones definitely hurts because she is just a post-up threat. Like she is somebody that like and like you, you better not. Let a small guard and enter the paint and get a mismatch there. But with with Angel, like she's I think I think she's like the least efficient post player amongst players who have had like over 100 shots in the post this season. Like, you're going to live with that. You're going to live with her doing like getting the ball on the post. And that's when it's when it starts to impact the rest of the offense, like we talk about their half court offense. Yeah, I think they're just really easy to scalp back. And this is just a game that you're going into. Like on the weekend, like wait until the postseason comes around and you're the only team that anybody is that the opposing team is concentrating on. The scouting report is concentrating on. Like, I think with Angel, look, like we're seeing like it's just like at a certain point, I get to a place where I'm like, look, I love that you saw Nas Hillman's three point progression. And you were like, oh, OK, like I'm going to go work with Carl Smasco on my three pointer. I know she wants to develop her game. But we have to. We have to nail the fundamentals first. Facts. We have to nail. Like, I don't care if you make a three. Look at what KK Timpson is doing. Facts. Right. She can finish at the rim. You could have so much impact. Like this one thing is a gap between Angel Reese being like an elite player that is an all star to her being first team all W to her being in the conversations that we had earlier. Yeah, because she can be that player. She can be that player. We've seen the impact on the defensive. And she has the most impact on the defensive and like analytically than anybody else in the WNBA. Right. But she's always having to balance that against what she's taking away on offense. And at a certain point, it just reduces how impactful you can be as a basketball player. Yeah. We talked about that yesterday. Like, because it's like the same layup that you talking about when she threw the shit over the rim. I was just like, OK, I already see what we on today. I always make a joke because I live in Atlanta and I always make a joke. If we have like a big event the night before. I always make a joke and say they went out last night. I made a joke. I guarantee Angel was at the Clarissa Shields fight last night. So I think with her, with Angel, like when you're right there for her, I think it has to be focused at this point. Like, are you not like focused? Like just to throw the ball over the rim by yourself, like make that make sense. Like, I don't I don't understand it. And then also, too, she can't go left. It was one time she'll literally be in the middle in the paint. It'll be you'll be by yourself on the left hand side and you will come all the way. Like to the defense. That's the fundamentals that you're talking about. As far as obviously right to your left side. We saw that yesterday. As far as her, like missing that layup. I'll be honest with you. I had to, like, go back and be like, what happened? Because I'll be honest to my parlay was parlaying. So I was like, I wanted to overtime. So I was like, good. I'm glad you missed it. But which one of you, Courtney, was it you that needed two more Kelsey points? I was I was tuning in. She got my point. And then I had another one. And I just need to run and shoot a three and make that one. Yeah. - How would you bet on that? - No, but this is what I said. I was like, I took Ryan for 20 on that one. They was like, why'd you take Ryan for 20? I said, because Ryan will show up at the end. They'll be losing by 15, and she'll make three threes. She'd have missed all of them the whole game. And then it's like the last four minutes, and she knock them down. And what'd she do? She got to 17 eventually. She did. I took her for 15. 20, never. You know what I'm saying? She just needed three more. She just needed three. Yeah, never. I think what Angel is like, sometimes I agree with what you said. She does rush, and she gets rushed, and she gets sped up. And then when she shoots the layup, she's completely out of control. I don't feel like she has a lot of balance when she is making a move to the basket to make. And I think we talked about this too, just her working on the post-up moves. Facts. I don't think she really has a go-to post-up move that she's comfortable with doing. So, in turn, it just looks like. Like, you're turning, charging the basket, and then throwing your body up, trying to get a foul, and then it just looks out of control. It looks crazy. Yeah. I'm sorry. Takara, I'm sorry. I cut you off. I had to ask about the parlay. Oh, yeah. No, you're cool. No, just with that, like, what Takara said, with just her, like, I'll be honest with you. I'm all for, if you being open, taking a shot, like, I don't want her shooting the threes until she makes so many in practice. That's something I'm kind of over. I'm tired of that. Like, she barely can make a jump. She barely can make a jump shot. Barely can make a layup. Like, it's like with Angel, like, I love Angel as a player. What saves Angel from me, from me not being her ass consistently, because I feel like Angel outworks people. She's the biggest dog on that team. Biggest dog on that team. She outworks people. Like, she's a hell of an assignment defensively. But this is me and Courtney's theory. This is what we want Angel to do. We want her to put away any pride that she gets to the side, whatever. She needs to call Aaliyah Boston. She needs to call Aja Wilson in the offseason. And ask, can I work out with you? Whatever you're doing in the offseason, she needs to try to jump on that train. Especially with Aja Boston. Because she's going to have to develop some type of post move. Because it's literally like a drop step, right? That's it. Like, sometimes she might come to the middle. But what saves her a lot with me is just she simply just outworks people. And that's something that you can't teach. Especially if we're always talking about on that particular team, we're questioning heart and we're questioning effort with that particular team. That's not something. We always question from her. So it's like, for me, it's like, me with that team, like I said, it's just always heart and effort. So that's what saves her with me. But I really want her to, it's focused for me. I really want her to lock in and get better trainers. Yeah. This offseason. She got to make the layups. That's what it boils down to. She has to be more consistent at making them layups. And we've been talking about that for three years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's the troubling part. You're right. I mean, she probably creates five or six extra possessions per game easily. Yeah. She was giving Aaliyah Boston work in that second half. It shocked the hell out of us. That shocked us. Because we did not expect that. Because we love, we are big Aaliyah Boston fans. We always say whoever Aaliyah is guarding that night, you got your hands, whatever. You're going to get shut down. She plays the best defense on Asia. She plays the best defense on anybody. So it's like, it felt like it was, because if you look at the stats, Asia, Angel still, had what, 15 and 14? Jesus, she shot five for 16. My God. Like you said, she missed six of them. But it's like, on them rebounds, man, like five offensive rebounds, like she just outworked, like that last possession of the game. How did she get that? But she did. I don't think she was expecting it. No. Yeah, I think that was a pass. She, I feel like, I feel like, I don't feel like post players are like that sometimes. Like they, they're looking to rebound. I'm looking to rebound. And I feel like she's looking and the ball just boom. Like. And not even, like you said, focus. I'm going to say this though, because I said this yesterday, and I meant to make this point. She set the tone for her to miss that layup at the end of the game. She set the tone for that at the beginning of the game. I always talk about setting the tone for the game. You done missed them all game. Why would we even expect her to make that shit? Because she set the tone because focus was the issue all day. Inconsistency on the layups was the issue all the whole game. She set the tone for that in the first quarter. So it was like, of course you missed it. You've been missing all game. Excuse me. All right, let's, let's, uh, let's bring in some good vibes here. Let's do some green flags. No, no, you're good. Get it off your chest. Green, green vibes for Atlanta or just green. Anybody, anybody, anybody. The links are my ultimate green flag. I mean, I guess I could throw some other ones in there, but the links are my green flag. I mean. Like Takara mentioned earlier, the links are already good. Yeah. They were already good. I didn't even think they could be like better. And like, not just a little bit better. They got like a lot better with one person. But also they have a great supporting cast. And I think, um, Takara called it too. It's like, even when Fi was in foul trouble, right? And she has to sit on a bench, they still get it done. Here come Nia Coffey. They don't, they don't lose anything when they start subbing. The, the, the efficiency. It's like really high. Um, and I think we talked about it too. It's like, it's theirs to win, but it's theirs to lose too. Exactly. And, and I also told Takara, like, you know, I haven't seen, uh, the links with this, you know, exciting to watch since like Maya Moore and Simone Augustus and Sylvia's spouse and, uh, Lindsay way. And all of them were there, you know? Um, but for me, the Minnesota links, absolutely. They're my green flag. I love it. I love it. The way they're finishing games right now, you can just tell that they're a cut above everybody else. No league. Like you can look at that aces game, both the aces game, the fever game as well. Um, but this one in particular, where you had Olivia miles ball in her hands, end of the game, they just are always going to be able to get a good shot. Like with the combination of her fee, Cheryl Reeve, she took one shot. I think it was like two minutes left in the game where she like took an early three. But other than that, she rarely ever does that sort of like young player rookie, unaware of like the, the, the time on the clock thing. Like she just, she's pretty much always locked in on it. Yeah, absolutely. And the way that they shut teams down defensively, like they will make you do the thing that you don't want to do. Like their ability to just take Asia Wilson out of the game in the fourth quarter, I thought was incredible. It's just like, it's just really Minnesota. And then there's everybody else. Yeah. I said that yesterday. I said, the links are the standard. Yeah. For sure. Standard for this season. For sure. Every team they play. I'm like, Oh, this is what your problem is. This is what your problem is. Like, when I watched like the aces, like this is like when my yellow flags is like the aces closing lineup and just like the Steph Talbot problem that they have. Like she is there. They're a much better team when Jewel Lloyd comes in the game for her. Yeah. But Becky Hammond starts her because of defense and to close that game, instead of going with Melissa Smith, they went with like a small lineup and they had Talbot in there for some defense, which they need. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Chelsea depends on who she's guarding Jackie. We know she's a good defender, but she just hasn't really been doing it much this season. She's just taken up taking taking so much more of a role on the offensive end. So yeah, it leaves a lot up to Asia. So I get it. I get where she's coming from as a coach there, but she misses that huge, huge wide open three at the end of that game. And that's sort of like the reverse dagger. Like she misses that shot and you can just, you can just feel that like the aces aren't really going to make it back from that. And that's kind of like, that's what that makes them guardable. But everybody has things that makes make them guardable. I think Cheryl Reeve takes the thing that makes you guardable and uses it to exploit you worse than anybody else. Like even going back to the game, it's like that. Like she'll take, okay, Steph Talbot, you're going to be in the game. Asia Wilson, you weren't, you were not going to see single coverage. You're not even going to see a little bit of single coverage this entire game. And our help's going to be on point too, because we only have to recover to three people, not four. No, seriously. Yeah. I think I had said that to Takara. I was like, it was like worker bees on a queen bee. I mean, every time Asia got the ball, I mean, she was just like, they just swarmed her, you know? So I agree with that a hundred percent. They're bought in. Like they're, they're bought in. Like you can tell they have determination, even like, so I'll give a green flag to Atlanta because they like each other. There we go. I said, I said something positive. There we go. But like the point that I'm making as far as just like, it's little things that does go a long way that it works for some, but obviously it doesn't work for others. Just the simple point of them doing the little ledger slide after the game, like after they win, you know, that stuff, it's like team bonding, you know, like the stuff like that goes a long way. Like you can just tell that they're bought in like to, to winning this year. Um, I'll tell you a green flag that I have. I love the adjustment that Stephanie White did starting Timpson over Monique Billings. That's a good one. Um, I love that. I love that change. I feel like ever since then, I feel like they've really just been kind of rolling. Cause I feel like at one time I felt like it was like, it seemed like if Aaliyah Boston wasn't getting the rebound or if Caitlin didn't get in there, it seemed like sometimes nobody else was. So I feel like Timpson has really came in, like her having a career high yesterday. I really liked that move. That's one of the changes. That I've liked so far this season that if coaches make, and you know what, we got to throw the mystics in there too. Oh yeah. For that, for a young team to do what they're doing. Super green flag. And I liked that they brought in Benaja. Cause I've always said about the mystics, like I was, I would say like they're missing like an. anchor like they're missing like an anchor like just to kind of keep them and pull them together like and i like benaja in there and i'm like really i'm i'm really excited to see them in the playoffs yeah do you guys think shakira austin could make a all wnba team this year yes yes yes she's been a monster she's gave everybody a hell of a hell of a time she's been a monster this year and she's one she's the person the green flag she's the person so much better this year she's a person too who was layup questionable for a while yep and it's like she's done got post moves she's stepping out making outside shots she's been a dog this year i agree she has been a handful and she's been incredible on the defensive end too yes her wind protection bruh especially when they played the dream and it's like i was watching that game yeah she had like five blocks right i thought about the team i said how many blocks does it take to win the game i was like how many blocks does it take to win the game i was like how many blocks does it take to win the game i was like how many blocks does it take to win the game it was a block party though she gave hey she gave angel the business man on defense i was just like this is a damn mess don't hit the electric slide at the man man no man when minnesota hits the electric slide on you after they beat you that has to be the most infuriating thing ever yeah like i would be sick yeah and you and you're right because it proved it when scholar took a ass and did it it strikes a nerve yeah it strikes a nerve yeah yeah for sure that's worse than trash talk man that's exactly exactly i do not do the electric slide on you yeah exactly right get out of here oh my gosh oh my gosh so kk was actually my green flag too but yeah i love love love that adjustment um she's been incredible for them she helps them on the boards as you said defensive end rebounding rotational quickness like that team really struggles with his perimeter defense she's cleaning up a lot for them i agree a lot a lot i'm liking the way the indiana is playing right now period i they have a really good i love their big three i know ab kelsey michelin and caitlin like i'm loving their big three like that's a big three they can get 20 20 20 25 you know leah can do her thing 2010 like that's that's a big three that's a handful over there for sure i'm glad that ty harris is playing more too yes same that feels like the last sort of piece to them figuring out their rotation because like if i look at now what the issue is with is is with them like it used to be the front court they're starting to figure that part out i really feel like the depth and the wings as far as like defensive ability goes is really tough for sure like we know caitlin is gonna get targeted right i think she's improved in like the last probably like 10 games or so five games or so but she's still always gonna be targeted kelsey mitchell bit of an underrated target at this point like she's definitely getting target that's another man ryan had caitlin on her when she'd already had one foul and then she had kelsey on her later passes out anyway we're done talking about that's just another that's just another trigger remember i just remembered that one and another thing red flag but yeah but let's let's see uh has not been a good defender this year i think the new rules have really messed with her defensive ability she fouls a lot like she's giving up free throws on a lot of her possessions as a primary defender yeah we're baking on her and she talked like sophie's been bad since that she was good against the liberty a couple nights ago she was good against the liberty i say that she did come make some shots but let's see yeah let's see if she's gonna be a good defender lexi's one of them ones i'm banking on lexi to surprise us in the playoffs and make some big plays maybe she's waiting on that because i'm ready for them to swap it out and try somebody else yeah at this point i kind of like i wonder if they don't want to take away her confidence but i'm at the point with her where i'm like either let her come off the bench because hopefully that takes some pressure off of her or if you want to reinvigorate her three-point shot which we know she can shoot she's she's been a shooter then i feel like they need to set up a place to get her going yeah too like you got to do one or the other there's no landsland where she's like having multiple zero point games like that's just not tenable yeah maybe like to your point like players like that you know if you get you working on somebody's confidence because that could that's not something i thought about like maybe the first two plays for the game maybe let's try to get her a look because who was expecting that you know so maybe yeah maybe do that for her maybe let her make her first shot or let her get a look early because that can dictate the rest of the offensively and defensively so i like that option you know but it's like two but let's see like she usually guards like the better players on the opposite team so she usually has a tough defensive assignment a lot of times um so it's like she working and then she rebound i think lexi is a good rebounding guard she's a sneaky rebounder you know what i mean so it's like she's doing all of this on the defensive end and then expected to knock down some open three on the other end so i kind of just piggybacking off of what y'all saying just getting her like some easier looks to get her going early yeah first play if i feel like she also like she really started expanding her game last year like she was like a most improved player type of candidate i wonder if this off season maybe she over indexed on working on some of that stuff and got away from the fundamentals a little bit like i could i could i could see that playing a role a little bit because it is it is genuinely surprising like the drop off yeah i feel like she's one of those ones that's like right now like we're not she's one of the one that we i feel like like last night i was like okay i'm writing her off at this damn point because i'm sick of watching it but like i said i think she's one of that one of those players that like we get to the playoff she might have a hell of a big big impact that you'd be like where has this been oh this is why she started oh this is why she gets the minutes that she gets so i look at lexi as like a hustle player yeah like she makes those those like clutch hustle plays like somebody gonna dive on the floor but she's gonna dive on the floor for the ball like she's gonna like sacrifice her body to like especially during playoff time because i feel like i saw that a lot last season where came up big with a defensive stop diving on the floor or saving it or something um and honestly that's something that just can't be taught either exactly that's just something that can't be taught either like that's just like a heart type of thing and that's big for that team because they're a team that like they drive off energy like that's a team that you do not want the crowd to get involved like you do not want if they're at home you don't want when caitlin starts pumping up that crowd that's what you do not want when you start making that crowd that's what you do not want when you start making three sophie start making you do not want to start making three that's a team that just thrives off energy which i think is a great is a good thing but that's the team that you don't want that to happen as soon as they get excited and everybody hype child yeah it's like a tsunami and then like i mean and then they'll have the fans in the opposing arenas going crazy as well like it's just such an insult to injury man like caitlin comes down pops the logo three then kelsey comes down like breaks down your favorite player hits a mid-ranger in their face caitlin's pumping up the crowd on the way back like it's just like mad and it was one game they said she was pumping the pumping up the crowd at a way game i forgot what game it was but i was like hell her fans is traveling y'all can't get mad because her friends are showing up where y'all at you can't get mad but yeah when they get to do it i'm like uh-oh but one thing about indiana is though they'll blow a lead now they will blow a lead they're good for blowing a lead that's the only thing they but they but they can't finish though they might blow it but they can still get the job done and finish like it's hard to be able to finish games and i think that that's something that they can do they sometimes sometimes like they didn't they they struggled finishing against minnesota i feel like yes yeah alia has gotten much better with the threes it seems like she maybe just struggles to shoot them in those high levels moments so like maybe for her just being like you know what it's the same shot every time it's all good i'm gonna take it there's like there's some hesitation from her in those moments she did that bad yesterday she did that bad yesterday and it was what game was it was minnesota where she had the open shot and that was the turning point of the game because you didn't shoot right what happened but yeah that's one thing about them you're right yeah but they're a young team though like they're on their they're on the they're on the precipice like i feel like you know it's it's like there are a couple of those reps and those experiences away from really being like minted yeah i agree i agree for sure yeah yeah um all right this was also i mean guys there's so much this was like a really historic and reflective weekend yeah as well like you had the hall of fame the 1996 women's olympic team got it abducted uh shamika holds call got inducted elena deladon got inducted candace parker got inducted you also had diana tarassi her ring of honor ceremony and her number being retired i was honestly just like blown away by how many momentous things that we were like celebrating in the wnba this weekend um obviously we probably can't get to all of them but i was wondering if there's one that stood out to each of you i watched the dt i didn't catch the all the hall of fame i think i heard elena speak and i heard uh shamika uh speak um but i i love the diana tarassi tribute man that they did i thought phoenix did an absolutely amazing job amazing job. And I text Takara and I this way about her documentary that came out on Hulu like it's just it felt it brought back like this nostalgia feeling because like you know we're at 30 years for the WNBA and shoot me and Takara 36 yeah right like so it's not that old so when you think about like our little basketball lives as little girls like DT was one of those girls you know what I mean like we watching UConn for DT yeah you know like you wanted to go to UConn because of DT you wanted to play like DT you know you wanted to wear your hair in a bun yes you wanted to because of DT like yeah you know so like to like just see her up there it's like this full circle moment like yeah like girl you was that girl like you was that girl for us and it makes me think about like this generation now and how the girls are for like CC you know how like so like in it what they are with CC and I and I love that because I feel like that was us yeah with like a Diana Taurasi um so it just you know I was just like wow like this is amazing full circle moment um but also it just makes you realize like time time is a thief and it's like you remember it and it feels like it was just yesterday but just you know happy that we were able to witness that and you know her her play and her competitiveness inspired us in our basketball journeys growing up for sure yeah for sure DT was always my goal yeah go ahead no no DT was DT was always my goal here lately it's became Asia but like DT just it her holding up the UConn you know when she beat Tennessee like she was just always just something different for me like I was wearing UConn stuff and had no business doing it like you know what I'm saying but why am I wearing them people's stuff all the way you know but she's always inspired me didn't you you went to you went to Tennessee Tech didn't you are you from are you from that area oh yeah I'm from Kentucky yeah yo that's crazy yeah exactly had no business had no business but just growing up watching her like she really she really always was just my my person like my girl but I'll tell you who's who's I watched all the Hall of Fame speeches the one that got me was Elena Dilladon like for her just like so me I got inducted into the Hall of Fame at my school in 2022 in college and it's thank you that's really cool yeah what was that what was that like I gotta ask about that you can't just you can't you can't hold up yeah well um for me it was just like what I felt like with Elena Dilladon you can tell that this moment was like closure for her and it's like I felt the same way like when I did my speech and all that stuff which is available on YouTube I have to send it to you um when she just like the biggest thing that I wrote down when she talked about just the greatest accomplishment is who you become in the journey and it's like when you get and Courtney can relate to this like when you're an athlete and you do it your whole life man it's like when you get out and it's finally over I always use this this term and I always say this thing it's like that and one feeling that you get you're never going to feel it again like you're never gonna feel that again that moment that you get when you hyping up the crowd like you're never gonna feel that but you're always chasing it and she just talked about how like recognizing greatness where there's no scoreboard like that really like sat with me it's like where I'm at in my life like I've really had to just get a new identity for myself and like just that right there just like I'm at that moment in my life where I'm recognizing that like I didn't need basketball to be great outside of that the person who I am without it is the best version of myself like the best version I could ever be of myself to just recognize that greatness after the scoreboard like really just stuck with me so I was crying through that one child I was a mess wow wow yeah that was that was amazing thank you yeah about the identity loss for for us it's just something that like I've always just observed and and it's it makes total sense because I feel like you guys dedicate your blood sweat tears your lives your dreams all of that to you and I think that's really important and I think that's really important and I think that's really important and I think that's really important and I think that's one thing and then one day it ends and yeah I mean I think DT has talked about this I've been watching the I have a screener for the Yukon uh Dynasty documentary that's coming up so okay and she talks to Gino about like oh when are you gonna retire and Gino's like oh you know so like you know I want it to happen like this and you know I think she was kind of talking about herself in this way where she was like you don't get to decide right like sometimes it just happens and you could feel those endings like like Candice too like Candice when she was like I don't know I don't know I don't she broke down after like when the speech ended it was really her saying goodbye yeah and she was one that you know just was rehabbing from an injury and ultimately realized that like she didn't get to you know leave on her own terms and that's a shame for her and the basketball community because that's somebody who you know you should we should have been able to see her have her like one last ride yeah and like go to all the arenas and feel all that love and stuff and look luckily Candice is someone that's like you know perpetually around and she's in the media and see her all the time and stuff but yeah like it's when it ends it ends and you can't really do much about it yeah but Elena I feel like has always had that perspective because she was like she was talking about her sister yeah and a lot of that too and how her sister you know grew up with developmental disabilities and a certain point she just realized that like her sister is this incredible person but nothing that she does will ever be captured like in public she's never going to be someone who has like who gets sustaining ovation for anything and that that just completely changed what that what type of stuff what that type of stuff even meant to her which was was incredible honestly yeah that was good absolutely yeah yeah yeah super like i don't know just it was a really cool weekend honestly yeah it was a lot it was a lot it's tough man it's tough man like see yo we at that age we're like our greats are done like yeah and it's been like i remember like when it came to like kobe retiring y'all and it was time like it honey it was time it was time for dt too it was time and it's like just those moments and like even like i don't know how i'm gonna feel like when lebron's done like i'm preparing myself but it's like i just don't know how i'm gonna feel like because i'm like dang like what we gonna do there are memories attached to those people yeah yeah there are memories that are attached to those people that like it's just like oh like what's going on like mm-hmm because they live don't change yes yeah people like lebron people like diana they also played for such a long period of time that they'd be just become this perpetual fixture in our lives like we don't even know what like the wnba has been around for 30 years and diana tarassu was part of 20 of them yeah right that's she's a defining figure yes for like anybody who's a wnba fan like she's just someone that they were they could reliably know that like some day in august they're gonna get to play and she might do something amazing yeah and i think like just with this weekend especially with the the hall of fame inductions and diana tarassu getting her jersey retired i know me and takara had talked about this a lot but it's like i just encourage all the young basketball players out there to really like go look at some of those players like go look at some of those players that paved the way for you know some of your favorites right now right and caitlin clark olivia miles angel reese you know all of these big names science centron kiki area fan all of these people all these new this new generation right because i always say we've we're passing that torch because i feel like we're there now yeah you know what i mean like we're there where we've we're kind of entering this new generation of like franchise players and new faces you know what i'm saying um but i just encourage you like man go go go watch some of diana tarassu stuff yeah so y'all know y'all really know why they call her the white mama like go watch it in case y'all got her effed watch some of candace parker yeah right go watch some of maya moore go watch some of that like you know um uh because i think it's just so important to like just keep that history going and just knowing who paved the way for some of these players now that these new players have much respect for yes and that's something that i'm trying to like do with um and my son he does baseball but i still try to like you know he watches women's basketball and then my bonus son he plays basketball and he doesn't really know about some of these players and he doesn't really know about some of these uh women's basketball players so you know i've been sending them stuff like you need to check her out you need to look at her like how you not know who olivia miles how you not know who maya moore is that's unacceptable yeah you know unacceptable you know so just you know us doing our part to make sure like no let me tell you let me show you but i will say i do feel like i do feel like the wmba is like in good hands yes like as long as long as we're like we're getting passing the torch those ones that we grew up watching they're making their exit i say i'm falling in love with players now i will say that it is making me feel the same yes something we're gonna start on our show we're gonna call it look run it back or something like that we're gonna start watching old games and reacting to old games yeah so we ask people to like sing games and they've been like 2003 this 2013 that so like just that but it's in good hands like i'm falling in love with even the college players like i fell in love with caitlin at iowa like i would always say like man i'ma go to i'ma go to fly to iowa god knows where and you know but hell the tickets were sold out you know so it's like we're we're in good hands i don't feel the same way way about the nba i will say that i'm just like who is this um but i'll say that we're in good hands yeah absolutely do you guys see those gg banks highlights by the way oh i saw gg two years i saw gg two years ago but i went last weekend was it last weekend courtney i went i think you went last weekend i went last weekend uh to the ote but i saw gg two years ago and i was like who the hell is this and this was she was playing against alia chavez she was playing against uh zakiya johnson that those older people and i was just like she's cold like she's gonna be different she's cold yeah yeah you see plage is on the recruiting trail with her oh yeah when i went um who was uh malaysia was there when i went yeah she was there too the last time so they know what they're doing they know what they're doing okay how was it how was ote it was cool man it's it's really nice facilities like it's not too far from me maybe like 20 minutes like it's not too far from me it's not too far from me it's not too far from me it's a great concept for what they've done like it's a really really nice facility like just seeing i just wish they had stuff like that now like back then when we were coming up like where you can see like a showcase so that's what i mean when i say like the girl the game's in good hands it's so much that has been added like to the younger generation where they can get exposure early so we can know their names when they're a sophomore you know back then you had to go on hoop girls or yes whatever it was you know for us to find people we never got a chance to see them play so we're going to see what they're doing and we're going to see what they're doing over there is really good like the marketing then putting it all out there then being on youtube and flying them girls in like it's it's solid it's pretty nice oh yeah i'd love to see that i'd love to see that um i was wondering like you know you you mentioned like saying goodbye and all and you know going through that process with your identity and stuff i'm wondering for both you guys i know you guys both played div one it's part of starting mid-majors like a way to kind of reconnect with the game yes absolutely yes and it's like life come like candace said life coming in full circle like me and courtney have like literally only met in person one time like actually talked we played ball against each other we became friends on instagram and then here we are we have that love for basketball and the love for the game and we have the same work ethic and we understand teamwork we understand you know what it takes just to you know to be successful you know and to work hard so that's definitely it's allowed me to get that back out like and feel those feelings and i think that's something that's when i'm watching the game and be excited and coming and be excited about it even just our community with our show like shout out to the mid-rangers just like with them they've made it fun like we're always on the same page and sometimes we agree to disagree but that's what sports is it's okay it's healthy to not all be on the same page so yes it's definitely been that yeah no i i agree with everything takara said it's been nice um i know for me like you know we talk about that identity stuff it was like that's something i know i struggled with you being in that space for so long you know um and not walking into this new place if it's your work and you know wherever you work and not being like great at it right away yeah you know and i was always just trying to figure out how i can feel that in some way where i feel confident in what i'm doing and i think when i was playing basketball that's where i felt the most confident like especially when i got to college i felt the most confident there i'm like i knew what i was talking and um especially after i had my son and that's like a whole identity thing in itself too i knew i wanted to get back into it some way but i know i didn't really want to coach okay you know i know i didn't really want to do that shout out to all the coaches that coach because that's a hard job okay um but you know me and takara had a conversation and and it and it it's got us all the way here and it's it's been the best thing man it's been the best thing and sometimes it's still surreal that you know people like our podcast and they like how we talk about basketball and they like our banter and all types of stuff it's just been a really good time and just such a huge blessing for sure i love that i love that you guys are honestly like i know you talk about okay like you guys just started doing this and stuff but honestly you guys are amazing at it and i also feel like you guys both bring in like that perspective of having played too like when you guys talk about it and you guys talk about it and you guys talk about it and you guys certain situations like you do mention the locker room aspect of it or how to talk to a player like i remember i think it was i can't remember maybe maybe it was after like jose fernandez went off on the wings like you guys really talked about that in a really nuanced way where it's like okay like yeah sometimes you know you're not doing something right but like what what kind of impact can that have when a coach like goes and says it publicly and like how does that play out differently like college versus the pros and stuff like that so i think it's a really good way to talk about it and stuff and i just appreciate that perspective so much because like it's not it's not one that like like you're always saying something i'm like what yeah i couldn't like like like i didn't think of that yeah um and you guys are so fun honestly like i remember takara told me that you guys like haven't actually ever like like like you guys like weren't like lifelong friends i was like what no it's like you guys pod like it honestly you guys totally pod like it it's it's great i love that i didn't even tell you did i show girl i didn't even that you know i'm with you i oh yeah hello for olivia for olivia heck yeah i got olivia pro and i got my glasses sitting right here we call her olivia sprints what yo she she's just stacking up these nicknames man for sure yeah love that well hey thank you guys so much for making the time so thank you for having us this was awesome loved it and uh thank you to stefan anderson as always for producing and we will be back later this week having uncontrolled eosinophilic esophagitis or eoe can mean you're stuck in many ways like cutting your food into tiny pieces or stuck chewing food for a long time dupixent dupilumab a prescription medicine for patients one year and older weighing at least 33 pounds can help with that it's a breakthrough treatment that can reduce inflammation in the esophagus and improve swallowing you can get with this or you can get with that how about this dupixent is not a steroid it proactively treats eoe so you can get ahead of it severe allergic reactions including skin reactions can occur get help right away if you have trouble breathing or wheezing or swelling of your face mouth tongue or throat tell your doctor of newer worsening joint aches and pain or a parasitic infection or asthma don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor feeling stuck with eoe start treating with dupixent talk to your gastroenterologist or allergist today about dupixent learn more at dupixent.com or call 1844 dupixent picture yourself watching football with someone you're close to isn't it nice how they bring snacks unprompted or how they're cheering makes you cheer even more nothing beats watching the game with friends that's why at&t guarantees their network so you can enjoy the connected moments knowing if there's an outage we'll credit your bill when the connection matters it has to be at&t credit for wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting eight or more towers restrictions and exclusions apply see att.com slash guarantee for full details