OKC Gets Wobbled, Cleveland’s Done, and Knicks Nirvana Is Here (Maybe) With Zach Lowe and Sean Fennessey

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I have rewatchables coming Monday last comedy movie that we did for month May, Animal House. Wow. Classic. Really good. Lot of great lines. Had a great time. So that's coming. You can watch all those movies on Netflix. All right. We're coming off Oklahoma City, San Antonio, game four. I love game fours. Game fours are always great. Game fours are always like about three games of feeling each other out and then game four is the awesome game not today. That did not happen. But there's a certain, but there's a certain buzz for game fours because if it's a two forget the three o game fours, like we're going to see tomorrow, the two one game fours, it's the fork in the road game. It's either this is going to be an epic potential seven gamer or three one and it's going to have to be a crazy come back to get it to seven. Now, or at least we're looking at just I'm just cancel your Saturday plans now because I wouldn't you be surprised at this point if we go like, it doesn't feel like one of these teams is going to take the next two games consecutively. Counter. Okay. Are we getting Jaylin Williams the rest of the way here? And if we don't get him and we don't get a Jay Mitchell, the thing that jumped out tonight was just all of the sudden, okay, C had one creator and San Antonio, you knew they're going to guard the shade differently tonight. I think that was the easiest prediction to make basically like knock yourself out. We're going to guard the hell out of you. If you get 35 great, we're not letting these other guys get good shots. We're not letting them get going, which is what they did, but you could really feel the lack of a second creator in this game. So you lose Jaylin Mitchell. I mean, Jaylin Williams, but then you also don't have a Jay Mitchell either now all that goes on McCain who stunk tonight. And you know, in the fourth quarter Aaron Wiggins was running offense for them. It was just weird. It's suddenly felt depleted. Well, the whole fourth quarter was kind of a slow motion give up by the thunder. I mean, so Chad came back in the game, but SGA did it. But yeah, I mean, there are game fours where you feel like, uh-oh, did one team solve the other team, even if it's a two to series with the poster series for that is the 2015 finals when the Warriors went small and played the death line up. And everyone was like, uh-oh, is this just a wrap even though it's two to and we should not feel tense about it. I'm not like, I agree with you that something happened tonight that gave me a glimmer of that sensation. And it was the combination of softening the double teams on Shay to the point that we're just not doubling you high on the floor. If you get to within 14 feet, we'll start darting guys at you, stunting guys at you. Maybe a hard double here and there, but it's going to come late and it's going to come suddenly and it's not going to come every time and it's going to be a much more confusing defense for you to pick apart because they were picking apart the traps and the combination of that plus to your point, the lack of your second and third best creators to play off of to throw the ball to and it felt like, huh, and I spent the second half of the game trying to think like, if I now know this is coming and I don't have jail in Williams in AJ Mitchell, what is what is adjusting to this look like? Shay can get by anybody off the dribble and get into the 18 foot range. But what does life look like after that? How am I recreating the open threes and the good shots that we got if they're not just throwing guys at me? And I don't, I don't know the I work shop and some answers, but I don't have any good ones yet. Well, and you didn't mention there are also losing all the transition stuff. They're losing the fast break stuff because he's the only guy that really felt a good hint. It was not a good, not a good night for the case on Wallace, I'm worth 30 million a year, um, agent strategy. Listen, game three, I thought Shay and game two, I didn't get to do anything after game three. I just thought Shay was just so good in those two games and, uh, just picking them apart and the way he was using his teammates, it was about as good as you can play the guard position, right? So they knew they couldn't do whatever they did defensively again. It was notable, like his stats, Toreco mentioned that near the end of the game. His stats aren't that good in this series for how well it seemed like he played in those two games. I think he's under 40% for the series now. I mean, Wembee was the best part in the four, which now makes two games where he was the best part in the four. And we're at two two, which is kind of where we thought we were going to be anyway. So I look at it like game two, I didn't love the officiating. I thought it really affected the game. Game four was the other way. I thought the officiating affected the game for, uh, in San Antonio's favorite, Dorton Coruso. Dorton had 4,000, nine minutes. Coruso had 4,000, 12 minutes. And it's just like they weren't allowed to have the same physicality that they've had in some of these other games. There was big free-throwed vanages for San Antonio. That was one thing. Wembee had a superstar game. And then I thought Castle, the two way game he played and the stuff he was doing defensively, I just thought he was awesome tonight. Castle had flat out awesome. The loudest 13.6 assist game, like possible, I think, um, at all. None of the guards, um, Harper seven points in 21 minutes, Fox 12 points in 31 minutes, Castle 13 in 30. It doesn't like jump off the page and any of them played great. I thought Fox looked pretty good with the ankle stuff and Harper had a couple of explosive plays that are pretty encouraging for how he's feeling. But just the presence of them, uh, 12 turnovers for the spurs. That's a thing. That's a winning recipe and just like a calm to the offense. And on the other side, I, the Thunder finished with 33 threes attempted, but they only had 11 and a half time and I thought that number would really stood out as like they're just not creating open shots against this defense right now. And Wembee, he wasn't just 11 for three for them, by the way. Yeah. He wasn't just the best player in the game for the second time in the series. He was the best player by a mile in the in a game for the second time in the series. And like that's also kind of alarming for the global city thunder that he's the best player by that much in half the series now. Did you think the half court shot was going in? Because I did. So that's going in. So I knew it was going in like LeBron. I'm like, I knew when he took it, I knew it was going in, but it really was like, he's going to make this. I knew it was going in, but I only knew because I was about two minutes behind in the game and our text thread blew up and you all ruined it for me like my friend ruined Tyrone Taylor's three run tying home running. It's the game. He's last week by texting me before I'd seen it. So I knew I knew I knew I knew it was just a bunch of wows. So I knew something was going to happen. And then obviously that was it. I want to talk about Wembee in one second. You mentioned something about the guards. I know the box scores were spectacular. But to me, the turnovers was the big thing because that's what killed them, you know, especially in game two. But Fox, even though Fox was an amazing, at least he can take care of the ball. That allows Castle to be more of a two way like freelancer guy. And I just felt like their team seemed like their team tonight. It was the team that we watched all year another some weird stuff happening. We see this happen in a series where you just start losing guys you can trust as the series goes long. I no longer think champagne shots are going in. I no longer think held in Johnson shots are going in. So those are two two pretty big guys for them during the season that now feel like they're in like a major major funk. And I I'm wondering like we get to like a game six game seven like really like these seven minutes are going to determine our season. It feels like it's going to be the three guards with the cell and Wembee will be the lineup that it's kind of like this is it. These are our best five. What is it for? Okay. If we don't have Jalen Williams again, I assume Caruso's out there with SGA and probably Chet, but what like is it just a feel for the game? Or do you even feel like they have a best five at this point? I think it's a feel for the game and it starts with, do we feel better with two bigs? One big. If it's two, is it heart and steam? Heart and Stein, rather, and Chet who were minus 28, I think coming in to this game, but you know, Heart and Stein was carrying the offense early on with like one ridiculously high floor. Just one of the great stretches of random shot making in recent playoff history. He let them in shots to that, I think. No, Shay Coderman. the end. Oh, they shake at him. Yeah. He was tied for second with Aaron Wiggins, not a great, just not a great statistical indicator. So which two big guys do you want or is just one big guy? And then if it's one big guy, you're really like, you're, you're scraping the end of your perimeter fill out guys that we really trust with, you know, case and wallows would probably be in there with Caruso. And then like Dort has done pretty much nothing this year, except Fallen, misthrees, and, and, yeah, the other guys are injured, you know. Yeah, if he's just going to found misthrees, at least like get some cheap shots in and try to change the turner of the series, whatever he's doing has not worked. They played 11 guys plus Topic at the end. So they put 11 guys for real during the flow of the game, but also didn't have Jaydub and also didn't have AJ Mitchell. This under team is so bizarre to watch in the playoffs. There's been all these cool stats about all the lineups they use. And it's almost like watching a hockey team. And then she's, he's constantly mixing and matching. But sometimes I wonder like, at some point as a playoff series goes along, I need to figure out who my five are, who my six are, who my seven are. It's just like Wiggins, like Wiggins hasn't played really all playoffs. And tonight it felt like they actually needed them. So I don't know. It's, this has been a weird one because I felt like after each game, I became convinced that the team that one was in great shape. And then it just flips, which I guess is the point of a seven game series. But now I honestly think San Antonio has the advantage of. I have no idea. I'm going to wait if those two guys are out the whole series, Mitchell and Jaydub. And the spurs injured guards can play at this level. Then I agree with you San Antonio, despite having only one home game left has probably an edge in the series because of what we saw tonight. And I think the Thunder's best five, the lineup I've been waiting to see. And I think they've been waiting to use well, two of the five are, are not playing right now. And it with the lineup would have been Jay Mitchell, Caruso, Jaydub, Chet. And I think that's the best five that they can put out. It did not play much in the regular season. It got released early in the series. And just as soon as we saw it, it's gone. And certainly the lack of any clarity on timetables for either guy has me a little concerned right at this moment late at night on whatever night this is. But maybe we'll get an encouraging update tomorrow. I don't know. The Mitchell one seems more concerning. Cause calf strain is just automatic. You're out for at least a week. Right. We don't. If they, if they'd given it the, you know, when you're reading the, uh, the injury stuff, like the mild calf strain, calf tweak, that kind of, this was like calf strain. So calf strain to me means seven to ten days, which probably takes him out. And he didn't look right even before he got hurt. You could tell like there was something up the, the jade up thing. I have no idea. And this has been the longest hamstring injury, I think in league history. It feels like this is just his body has not been healthy. What do they say? He's finished two, two playoff games or something out of the three rounds? Well, and it's weird because when he comes back, he looks good. Like it's not like he's like, he doesn't gain one. Yeah. He's an individual. He looks 70%. He looks like pretty, pretty close to all NBA, Jaydub. And it does change their team. You were reminded like, oh, having a giant wing who can do all of these different things on both ends of the floor, super valuable. And then it just, he just can't kick it. And it might be one of these things that just requires a little bit more sustained off time to just disappear or work itself out. And obviously they don't have the luxury of that right now. They're minus 250 to win the series Oklahoma City, which I just completely disagree with. That's why that's that's updated now. That's on Fando. Yeah. Minus 250. Wow. I do not agree with that. Because I thought Harper, Harper looked back to me tonight. He had that one dunk in traffic where he exploded. Like he seems okay. Fox, you can tell is you know, 75, 80% speed, but it's still able to be a point guard and run the offense and all that stuff. I have an important question for you. Okay. Who do you think the rest of the league is rooting for in this series? Like both competitively and like long term big picture. I think both of these teams are looked upon as, oh boy, we got to deal with this for the next half of our many years. And there would almost be the easy answer is the people are rooting for the spurs, right? Because of all the officiating stuff and the thunder get away the fouls and the flapper like they're just straight up hitting Shay with the flapper chant and San Antonio, which very good performance by the spurs fans all around. Like you got to be, if you're going to chant like that, you just got to get right to the point and be as mean as possible. And it's a one word chant and it does the job. But I will say they're even even though the OKC is the correct answer for like who teams are rooting against. I guess the rest of the league is rooting against. There would also be like a whoo, Victor's already here. Like if they win, there's like a they're already in the finals. Like that seems that seems fast. Oh my god. But I think I think OKC is the answer. You know who's rooting for OKC to lose the Milwaukee Bucks. Oh boy, we're going there. We're going right there. That's just fearing right in there. It just becomes a quick, honest pain. Do you think that that is something? I'm not ready. I'm not ready to contemplate it yet. I'm just I'm just not. I mean, it's totally against their playbook. And we go through all of this, they won the championship last year. Here they are two two in the Western conference finals against another 60 plus win team. And it's already like, well, if they lose two out of the next three games, we got to upend everything. I know the salary stuff. I know the consolidation. I got it. Like we're already going there. I maybe we are. I don't know. Here's why we're going there. Yeah. Okay. Here's why I'll go for a drive. Let's go for a drive. No, here's why. This is it. If I'm if I'm OKC and I lose this series to a spurs team that's this young and this isn't even close to being the team they are yet. And Wendy is the difference. And I just have no answers for him. What do I do if I'm OKC the rest of the decade? Do I just like, ah, we had some bad luck or or do I look at it differently and go, okay, almost like how Minnesota and Tim Connelly went there, it was like, I have to build a team to beat the Joker. And I think the question for OKC would be we thought we're going to dominate the decade. That's not going to happen. How do we construct the kind of team that can beat a generational freak? And do we have the right team right now? Was that was that just a weird two weeks or do we have the wrong roster to beat this guy? And that's where you have to think about, yeah, that's something. You better know the answers to that question is we just don't have the right roster with a thousand percent certainty. If after all the success you've had, you are willing to throw the throw, not throw it away, but mix it up to that extent based on the result of a few games. And that extent is going to be the minimum one of J.D.ub and shit and a bunch of picks and role players and everything you've got, it's the last big move you've got for a 31 year old who has not gotten through a playoff healthy in quite some time. You just, you just got to be sure. Like, yep, he broke us. We like, we got to try something now because we'll never beat him again. You got to really be sure. I agree with that. I agree with that. Sure. But here's though, here's the wrinkle, heart and, heart and sign. I think it's a team option for next year, right? For a lot of money combined with that they're going to have three max guys and they have the door team option and they have the case and Wallace extension thing coming. This was their best like roster, the way all the money worked, chance to compete against the Wembee team. And if they're going to lose already and the money is about to go up when they have all these picks, when they have the 12th pick in place, I just feel like you have to look at it holistically and be like, okay, this is, it's reset time because the other thing they can do is just bring back heart and sign at that at that price. If they, they, if they don't pick it up, he's going to go to Fragedston. He'll get 20 plus million from I think a bunch of different teams. There's teams that have cap space and trade exceptions and all kinds of things. Like, I promise you, the Celtics would be in on that with the giant trade exception they have. So that it's just, it's a weird one and it's a weird spot to be for your, okay, see, we're like, wow, I thought we're going to dominate the last five years. Now it's two two. What do I do? Flip side, San Antonio is fine. Like, we're going to lose this series. They're like, whatever, like we're, we're happy to be here. Yeah, we could probably tweak around it. We'll figure out in February. They're not, there, there would be no panic at all. Okay, see, I'd have to wonder if they panic a little. Personally, there's not panic. Well done. Thank you for mentioning the last thing because I was, I had two editorial comments for you on after that. Number one, really good job. Bring up the Celtics, even though they haven't played in three weeks. Thank you. I mean, no, contractually, I had to do you want to do a deep dive on Vluchavitch and his market and whether any cap space teams will want him. We know his market. It's called the, it's called the veteran minimum. And this, I was going to say before you, I was going to say, I have to, we have to strike a deal now. Yeah. I mean, I won't even be your guest on the next podcast because that's how this works. But the deal is going to be if the Thunder win game five and go up three, two, you are not allowed to go through Spurs packages for honest. You're not allowed to do it. You're banned from, we can't react that way to one Spurs loss. Is that it? Can we make that deal? Or are you going to go off the on that one? What about what about trade Murphy? Fine, that's fine. That's reasonable. That that's that that's allowed. Can we all agree, Yannis and Wembe just is too weird and probably doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But weird is what you're going for, right? Like weird is what the jazz are going for. Weird is what you have to go for if you think this is the insurmountable alien mountain that we just can't climb and like we got to try something different. That's different. Those two guys together on defense, even though Yannis isn't the same guy he has been defensively as a help defender around the rim. Those two guys together. It's something, I don't know what it is on offense, but it's something. What do you think happened on Wembe on game three in game three now that we just saw game four? What was he tired? Did they just have a bad strategy? I thought it was really weird watching in real time. I know you talked a little bit about it last night, but I didn't understand that staying the strategy at all. I didn't understand why he was so far away from the basket. I didn't understand why they weren't playing with pace. He seemed a little sluggish to me and it was really making me wonder. Did that double OT game? Was that just a huge tax for both teams, but especially with him having played that many minutes? Then he looked fine tonight. Two days later, you throw it out the window. But what do you think happened on game three? Was it pressure? Was it too much adrenaline? Did OKC do something? What was your take on that? I mean, without being in his head, I assume there's a little bit of all the unquantifiable stuff you're talking about. Fatigue, this is a guy's minutes have been pretty monitored throughout his career. And now it's just balls to the wall. You got to play 49 minutes in game one, whatever it was, pressure, home, playoff debut, thunder, chat, the whole thing. But I also think it took them some time to adjust to after six, what five regular season games and then the game one of the thunder pretty much exclusively guarding him one way. Then they go scrap everything all of that and guard him another way with big guys with the single-minded goal of we're not letting you get lobs at the rim and offensive rebounds. We're going to take your shot selection and shove it outside and he at that A, they executed well B, I think their initial reaction was the spurs were a little back on their heels and Victor was a little bit back on his heels and he kind of like went along with that. And tonight it was going to be like both he and the guards and I thought Castle set him up on a couple early picking roles really well. There was just not going to be any denying that he's going to the basket. Even if it's not all the way there, I'm just going to take one little dribble and reach and it's going to be a hook shot or he tried to throw the ball off the backboard to himself two times like it was just he was just not going to settle. But look his first three shots were still jumpers. He took a fair amount of jumpers in the game, but there was just a different mentality and aggression level to his game. And I think that's just, I think that's just feeling out and elite defense who threw a monkey wrench into your plans halfway through, you know, the series or whatever. I agree with that. I think there's one other piece. It seemed like they were really trying to attack and get to the basket and get in the paint, get to the rim. I don't, I haven't seen the we tape right after these games in. But I would guess the stats for them and the paint were a little bit different in this game. And it felt like they were like just let's attack throw the ball near the rim for Wembee. Let's just like go downhill a little bit more because that game three was just weird to watch them. It always felt like they were they're going backwards or sideways and never like going, uh, going toward the rim. The chat piece though. He made all NBA today. Yeah. What's, uh, what's our collective level of remorse for Jill and Doran over Scotty Barnes at this, at this point after the playoffs? For me zero. I'm not taking any ship for that. I'm voting centers every year for each team. And until as long as I have a vote, I'm not changing because we decided to make this like literally where everybody gets a participation trophy to be in an OMB 18. I'm not throwing away 75 years of history because they stupidly decided to change the rules. I want a center or somebody who can resemble a center. I want each of my teams to kind of look like a basketball team. Okay. I don't want to detour down Jill and Doran. No, I'm just saying, but, but it's a regular season award. I have no regrets now that let's talk about shit. I thought he was a little better than this. And I maybe he's in a funk. But I really was more of a believer than what I'm seeing. And I don't mean to do the, you know, the morning TV show shit. Homegrid's got to step up. Like I'm not doing that. I just honestly thought he would have more of an impact than I'm from watching him this season. I really thought he had rounded into, you know, dead eye three point shooter. Um, just really, really severely impactful defender. Just elevate your team in all these different ways. And it feels like Wendy's in his head. Like I don't even like his body language. The only time I remember his body language like this was in the Indiana series. I felt like you could feel him sliding a little bit a couple times in that series where the pressure. You can just kind of see it. He was carrying it. But I thought he shed that. And now it feels like Wendy's in his head. Now in his defense, Wendy's a seven foot seven alien who came out of UFO. Um, so I get it. I'm just saying I honestly just thought he would put better in this. Uh, I think we're going to do some sort of pressure. Yeah, we'll do that after the break. Yeah. But I mean, not to spoil one of my potential picks depending on draft order. Chet Holmgren has 45 points in four games in this series. Uh, he took one three tonight, despite the fact that the spurs are playing a good chunk of each of these games in like a hybrid zone defense where someone is going to be open from three. Yeah. The guy closing out to you in the corner is going to be the alien. And I get it. And we're going to hear a lot of like, well, this just isn't a chess series. This just isn't a chess series to match up stuff for him. Uh, that's not acceptable. This is the team that have to beat for the next 10 years. Exactly what I'm going to say. This is exactly what I was going to say. At some point you reach a stature where every series has to be your series. And Chet is at the defensively he's infallible. The guy's amazing. He's going to bring that every game. Um, he just asked like, there was just what there was one play tonight where they're guarding him with wings the whole game, right? That's just what they're doing. Uh, for the most part. And he just sort of faced up and broke his way to like the dotted line against Devon of a cell drew some help and kicked out the case and Wallace for the only three that case and Wallace made in the game. It's like, well, I mean, like what we can't get a little bit when your when she's game is off when the whole offense is clogged up, you can't do like we can't get a little more of that. I know he said we do this with mobility too, right? Like he's not going to put his head down and post up and get us 25 like any big band, but like 45 points in four games. It just is not enough. I mean, especially when you're starting to lose scores on your team, game by game. It was just I just think it's been a weird series. All right. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back and we're going to do pressure rankings for what might end up being an awesome set of game series right after this. Imagine setting your makeup then forgetting it's even theirs. 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I think Chet has the most pressure and the biggest spotlight on him now as we head into the rest of this series of where is it? He just, especially on the hills of the Alonbey thing. I need to feel you more in this series. Chet home group. You know, we talked about this with Evan Moby too. And I do feel that I know they're down three nothing, but I do feel like Evan Moby went up like a half level as the playoffs went along. And I just felt like defensively, I put this way. The position there and is that Evan Moby's fault. I don't think. And I thought he rose to the occasion. I would like to see that from Chet. So what would be your first pick for the pressure rankings? Well, I'll just steal your thunder and go straight to the top. Shay has had an okay series. Oh, he's shooting 39% through four games. Yeah. And less than 30% on threes. His turnovers are up. He had four turnovers tonight. And a bunch of them are the same kind of like, I'm just going to kind of bulldoze my way into traffic and oh my god, all these guards are awesome defensively. I just fell over and I don't have the ball anymore. Turnovers. And I look, I get it. It's Victor William, right? They're the spurs have the one guy who can fuck up all the shit you're trying to do. The all the stuff that works against every other team. And you get into the lane. You get into all your sweet spots and all of a sudden it's there's a guy right behind you messing with your airspace back there and this guy over here. He's just going to have to problem solve his way out of this and have if they're going to win this series, win two of the next three games and J. Dobbs going to be out and Mitchell's going to be out and we don't know, but let's just say, I think he's going to have to have two efficient games. If they're not going to be like the crazy 16 of 23, oh my god, this is the best guard we've seen since Michael Jordan or whatever you want to say. But like 10 of 20, 11 of 22, I just think he's going to have to dig his way out of this and problem solve it, especially if we like we talked about before. If the spurs aren't going to kind of half give him the answers by trapping him at half court with his where his decision tree becomes a little easier, you know, look, we were talking about a guy who's a two time MVP now back to back finals MVP last year. We've talked all season about all the historical stuff that he's on the precipice of well, this is the precipice. The precipice is digging out of this series and I'm not saying he's got pressure on him, like I'm going to think differently of him if they lose this series or he's been a flopping fraud the whole time or anything like that, but it's just like, this is it. This is the moment where if the all time grades find a way to dig out of of whatever victor woman Yama is doing you. I like how you frame that. And if he has a chance to be an all time great, it's moments like this when you don't have the same team that you started the playoffs with and you're playing a ferocious opponent. Like the best example ever, this is Jordan in the 98 playoffs. Yeah, Scottie's back goes out Rodman's doing whatever. He's getting drunk every off day, it's going to Vegas and Jordan just is like, all right. And just, you know, but that's the greatest basketball player we've ever had. There's been other good examples like for my favorite bird season was 87 when a kale had the foot. Parrish had an ankle DJ had an ankle bill want couldn't play and bird just kept kind of throwing people on his back. Feels like we're there with SGA. I think one thing there's one of the narratives from coming out of this game to game five will be the officiating and that OK, so you got host on calls and their fan base and I don't blame on their fan base is going to say you guys complain about us that we get all the calls. We get to foul. We flop. Well, we didn't get any calls in game four and and SGA got banged around by castle and they didn't call it, but when we got banged around and they called it and and we want more fair treatment for MVP. So that'll be a whole narrative the next two days with that said, I'm just not really that afraid of leaving some of the guys open that we're out there, right? Like, I'm OK with Wallace wide open. I'm OK with Lou Dorte, Caruso is the Josh heart of this team. It's like you're going to live with it until he makes a couple, you know, they had Williams was out. Kenrick Williams was out there at one point hitting corner threes, but I just don't know who I trust on that team as they had Joe seems like they're instant three guy, but they don't seem to go in that often anymore. And then Wiggins would be the other one. But I just think they're going to guard him the same way they did tonight and he's going to have to be awesome. Well, if you're doing, if you're doing same game parlays like the SGA points with the OKC win would be the reliable one, I think for game five. I think those Ken rich Williams corner threes are really interesting place to go back and rewatch because the Spurs found a bit of a road map tonight and look, the road map is having Victor Webadiyama, but this road map was you, Shay, you pick your matchup at the top of the arc, like 35 feet away. You want to run a screener roll and get champagne on you or a sell on you or someone you feel a little more comfortable with Fox, then you do Harper castle fine. We'll give you the switch. You're going to be tech. I have to dribble. Cool. Like beat him off the dribble. Take it too. We're not going to double you. We're not even take your two. Because if you beat a guy off the dribble one on one, it's not like that guy disappears. He's going to be right on your hip at the cadence, Shay plays. And then you're going to get to 16 feet. And when you get to 16 feet, a couple of things are going to happen. Think number one is the alien is going to be in your airspace a little bit. Thing number two is there might not be a double team, but you're going to see the guy on your right and the guy on your left kind of on their toes, half stunting, getting in your field division, messing with messing with your mind. And those reads those moments, I don't know what the answer is when you're in that kind of sandwich of like four guys all around you and one of the Victor Wombon Yama. And you haven't been given a trap 30 feet from the rim, which just unleashes the past, past, past threes they've gotten. But that's where those Ken Ridge Williams threes in the right corner came out of is that moment, just like that. And maybe the answer is the Thunder are just going to have to play all their shooters and hope that they make enough of those threes that they get San Antonio out of that. Because I don't know what Shay's supposed to do in that airspace or how to get him in a different airspace against that defense. Like there was that one floater he took where you could see him thinking like, I'm shaking his eyes in there. I got to get something in this space. And it was just this moon ball, one handed right in and moon ball had no shot at going in. And it was like, you don't see a player of his skill set look that like unleash a shot that like is a no chance or from 13 feet away. Jalen Williams, not the injured one, the center, one for seven from three tonight. McCain was over five. Isaiah Joe was two for seven. Dort was over one. Caruso took one shot, I think, right? Chad was a one. Yeah. Caruso. Little one too many greatest role players ever segments for him on podcast. The TV shows last today's the gods had to like, had to like ding him with the hammer. Um, but those shots, I thought for the most part were pretty open and they just didn't make them when you miss 31 of their first 35 threes, right? Dort. Dort has 15 points in the whole series. And I know we're not going to him for, I think it's two threes and I know we're not going to him for points like that's not what he does. But the thunder when they're rolling and when they won the championship, there's just a lot of Lew Dort two for five, three for seven kind of games where he just makes just enough to make it hurt. And he is two in four games. That's somebody that I don't feel like will be in the thunder next year. Team option. They've got to put money somewhere. It's a different conversation. All right. My next pressure pick. You know, you just took the best guy, I know KC. I was going to say I've left you with not much to do. Yeah. It really has to be Wembee and normally I would say he's 22 and he's playing with house money at this point. He's this is this play. I've already been a massive win for him, but they have a chance to win the title. B, we saw him get a little spooked in game three. I felt like or whatever was going on with him. So it's not like he's we know as human because if he wasn't human, he would just be rolling through the league every game. But I wonder as we get closer and closer to the end of this and the spotlight gets bigger, his tendency is the hotter the spotlight, the better he plays. So we'll see. But it just feels like if he has a game like he had in game one or even a game like he had tonight, then I feel like they're going to win this series with the injuries on OKC side. Kind of up to him. What's your next one? Yeah. Last guy by a significant margin, obviously, that's a, that's a big one. I was going to cheat and just go the collective of Fox Harper castle. And only because the guard crew, only because keeping the turnovers down is the single best way to get yourself into a game against the Thunder. And they did that tonight and it's been a little up and down throughout the series because two of those guys have not have played limited minutes in a couple of games and castles been over tax, but if like, I mean, you would want to single out Fox because he's the vet, the experience guy, but I just think the three of them together have to have a very clean game. Two more very clean games. Yeah. I would have taken Castle with my next pick for just because of some of the stuff I talked about. I'm pod on Thursday about the Westbrook 2008 to 2016. That's where he's just, you love everything he does, but there's, there's a couple of times he gets a little out of control, low sloppy, not the foxes there, it feels like that goes away. My next guy would be McCain because they don't have Michel and they don't have Jalen lambs. And I thought he, he just didn't have it tonight. He was terrible. And this was after a weekend of everybody shitting on Darrell and oh my god, and I can't put the trade in them. So where'd you stand on that trade when it happened? I was surprised. I was certainly surprised that it was the way Philadelphia chose to save money. I was, I just, I wouldn't give up a player that had showed me what he showed in albeit twenty whatever games as a rookie. I was kicking myself for not anticipating the thunder being the team to overpay and get him. It was just such a perfect trade and such a perfect fit. He's sort of like their super duper version of Isaiah Joe, not the shooter that he is, but someone who with a lot more ball handling juice and kind of moxie to his game. I understood. I understood why the sixers did it. Yeah. And that they got more return than they were going to get ever trading Jared McCain because he was not playing for their team, which is also their fault. But and that he was trapped behind those two guards who were going to be their franchise mainstays. But I don't know. And it seemed like a unnecessary gamble to me. Yeah, so he wasn't playing for them. And I think the case was that his stock was only going to get worse and you're cashing in on these picks that are easier for try. We've heard the arguments by the question remains to me is why wasn't he playing more. It's not like he was on the 86 Celtics and Maxi was playing 40 minutes of game and Edge Coma was playing like 39. So even if you say, well, he's behind those guys, it's like, well, so what? You still have 96 guard minutes per game. You still have an 82 game season plus playoffs with, you know, injuries and all the wear and tear of the season. Like, why wouldn't you want to have three good guards? And it's just, it felt like nurse probably probably quit on him a little bit and it was only me at worse. And it's like, well, if we get to the off season, we're going to be there. and we won't even be able to get a first for him. But I just, it was a weird one 'cause he did so well last year as a rookie. You know, it's not like it's how this, it was like a Cam Reddish thing. It's like, oh, he's got so much potential who was so good in high school. Like, Jared McCain was good last year before he got hurt. So, so weird traded and I get it that they wanted the assets, but wouldn't it be suspicious to you if O.K.C. was like, we love Jared McCain. Here are a bunch of picks for him. That would be a fucking red flag. It's like, maybe we should keep this guy. Presti really wants him. Like, like, should we be reevaluated this? - Yeah, you wonder if Sam Presti is like, you know, he's probably, I could be in our rotation, but it's a nice flyer for us. And look, we have all these extra picks. - Yeah, just take some of our picks. We'll take them off your hands. - And here he is, in the rotation, but to your point, three point shooting is kind of cooled off even in his big game in game three. It was mostly two's, and he took a ton of shots, which is fine, they needed guys to take a ton of shots. It's a good pick. 'Cause if it's not those two guys, the JW and AJ, then it's gotta be, it's, someone among this group is gonna have to give you 18 to 22 points. Like, it's just, it's okay. Well, Kason Wallace was five and eight from three. It's gonna have to be one of those guys. - What do you have for your next pick? Give anybody left? - Well, look, I mean, I don't know if we haven't taken a coach. - Well, I mean, one coach just won the championship a year ago and the other coach is a, you know, was a former interim now permanent fill in for one of the greatest coaches of all time and just team 160 with every game. So I don't, you know, I don't think there's any, I don't think any seats are getting hot. I'll go, I'll go, like, this is gonna be near and dear to your heart. I don't know if the nuns can go to every game, but I just, I just, it's not his fault, it's not his fault, but Luke Cornett minus nine and 13 minutes. I will just put him in as the symbol of, even in this blowout game. - Yeah. - The non-Wenby minutes are just, it's Yokechi now where it's just like, I don't know what the best lineup combination is. Do we throw all the guards out there? But I'll put him in as the unfair standalone symbol of those minutes. - I thought Cornett was okay today. - He was good. This was the best game of the series, I think. - I'm going with the two ladies who, their bodies from the neck down were just on camera behind Mitch Johnson. And there's been, there was some commotion about them on the internet's getting into the game. Yeah, this wasn't the first time. And I think it's going to become a talking point. I think people are going to be looking forward to game six, certain types of people on the internet's that enjoy these things. But it was certainly, it was certainly interesting every time they cut to Mitch Johnson, what was going on behind him. - So you're saying they're under pressure? - They're under pressure. Yeah, 'cause now people are expecting it for game six. Like the spurs are up three, two, yeah. - Did you see, I know you're a fan of watching, we can, like, with the way we watch games, we see the inner arena entertainment sometimes during the commercial break. Did you see Mark Henry's appearance tonight? - I did not. - Well, I mean, if you want to talk about someone who's under pressure, I would nominate Rumble, Rumble the Bison. The Thunder mascot was at this game in San Antonio. And unless I took acid and hallucinated it in one of the commercial breaks, they had Mark Henry come out from the stands and I was like, I don't know. What's Mark Henry doing here is what's going to happen? And he chair shot it, Rumble the Bison. And then kicked him a little bit on the ground while the spurs coyote, like freaking Jimmy Hart with the megaphone was like jumping around taunting Rumble the Bison. So my question for Rumble the Bison is, why do you agree to this? Why are you at this game? - Yeah, you're losing to Mark Henry. - You didn't think like, oh, the spurs are being so nice inviting me to the game. My mascot friend must really love me. He didn't think the setup was in play. And how are you going to respond? Is the coyote getting in the fight? Is the coyote getting kidnapped? Like, how are you going to respond? That you can't just let this stand. - Maybe they're doing a home and home. Is that possible? - Just throw it out there. - Now he has to go to OKC. I had a couple side note things. And then I want to ask you who you think is going to win game five. So there's a lot of role player Caruso, where he stands in the role player all time rankings, all that stuff. You see the best role player of the 2020 is best role player of the century. Reggie Miller in the pre-game show was talking about how important role players are. And then proceeded to list multiple guys who aren't role players. So we're actually just really good players who are like borderline on being guys. - I didn't see this. - He was going backwards. And he was like, 2024 Derek White. And then they was like, Derek White's not a role player. I just, there's a specific type of role player mount Rushmore that I think we have to discuss. And the first person who has to be mentioned anytime the conversation happens is Robert Horry. I just want to say that as a PSA to everybody who likes basketball, everybody has a platform. Robert Horry has to be the first person you mentioned. It can't be Alex Cruz, so it can't be Derek Fisher. It has to be Robert Horry when seven titles. This was, I put him in my pyramid in my basketball book. He's the only role player that made it because he had so many big moments that I wrote this thing about. And I was like, if I told you the Robert Horry game is on ESPN Classic, you wouldn't know what game I was talking about. - He's got the first seven games. - He's got the late teams. - Give me the team and I'll try to guess what game it is. So Robert Horry has to be first and he's the perfect example of a role player where he doesn't matter if he's getting his stats. He always has a knack for getting better in a manner. He's always doing the dirty work. And that's to me a definition. Derek White's like a star. Like he's a really good player. Iguodala is an interesting one where on Golden State, Golden State Iguodala became a role player, like an overqualified role player, right? I think the four best are Horry, Iguodala, until Caruso. And I wanna have the Caruso combo really quickly. Horry, Warriors, Iguodala, Derek Fisher, and Michael Cooper. Now I'm not, this is my lifetime. So I'm not doing Casey Jones, Satch Sanders, people like that. But I think those are the four. And then apologies to Bobby Jones, who I think was better than a role player. I actually think he was like a notch above. Mara Ellie is definitely there. Kiss of death, Mario. Mario Ellie is one of my all time fair role players. He's in there and then Caruso. But does Caruso crack the top four for you like post merger? Cause he's got the title on the Lakers. He's got the title though, Casey has a chance to win another one. If you get three, like you're really in a different conversation now. You know it has three with three different teams. Is Danny Green, also a very good player of recent vintage. Yeah, I'm going to add him to the list. That's a great one. I think we need parameters to your point about Derek White. And even Andre Guidala, Derek White received all NBA votes today. They keep the balloting came out. He received a few 13 ball NBA votes. I don't know if a role player can receive all NBA votes. And Iguodala is an all star. Like I did, are we allowing all stars? Like one time, two time all stars drew holidays. Year role player, we got to throw them out. Well, so I guess the question is if you're one of your best four players on your team, are you a role player? I think the fourth best player could be in a lot of cases, a quote unquote role player. I think it has to be five through nine. Okay, that's fine. I'm fine with that. I'm just saying, like Iguodala was a 20 point score in an all star. I believe he made an all star team in his early one, maybe in his sixers era. Maybe I'm like, Jayman Green's another one, not a role player. Like, don't put him in this. It has to be like Mara, Ellie, the team could win with or without the person they could probably survive. But the person is the cherry on the Sunday, you know, who's your favorite random role player ever? I mean, who's your guy who just never, who never really landed on the right team? Josh Hart, by the way, is another role player amount, Rushmore potentially, but he hasn't wanted title. But he's, that's a good one. Yeah. He's right at the point, though, is he too good for role player status? I don't know. He's not a top four guy in his team, but is there a guy that you were like, man, if he'd only just landed on the right team? All right. I'm going to just throw three names at you just that you know, no preparation. You're just. I didn't prep you it off Trevor or Risa? Well, Trevor Risa won one, though. He gets one for own nine. So he gets to at least be in this little club. Okay. S-105 timer scrub. You get the jacket at least. He might, he had better ears than this because of the team she was on, but I just had the softest of soft spots for Lafonzo Ellis. Oh, interesting. I like that one. Same era, same team. I just like late 90s me was like, man, these teams should be trying to get the Sean Lettered on their team. He's like, just, he's just a random like a Mario L.E. kind of guy tough. Like, he, you know, they, he got him at one point. I just, for some reason, I just loved the Sean Lettered. This just ran, again, random names. I have a one that never gets mentioned anymore and should is James Posey. Oh, yeah. Two out of three years won the title, doing awesome role-player stuff. There's other versions of it, right? There's the Eddie House type. I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that fits for this. Fisher was an amazing one. Fisher had just one of the most bizarre careers ever was just in a mill. I think he's like second or third most playoff games ever was on all of these different teams. I went OKC who's basically a dead body on OKC. And OKC's like, well, it's still there. Fisher. Maybe he still has it, and they were still out rolling with them. Okay. Well, can I throw another name? We're gonna name some guys territory. Yeah. Did Nick Batouma send beyond this at his Portland prime? Never one. Yeah. Well, he's a classic never. Did he make a finals? I don't think so. All right. Well, we named some guys. That was fun. But Shawn Lender shot out for Shawn Lender. Oh, Tay Shawn Prince is a fantastic counts, right? Oh my God. He counts. Yes. Okay. Great. Who do you have winning game five? I picked thunder and seven. I'll pick the thunder when game five. I don't know. You someone asked me this. I was at the next game the other day game two and a people are like, who do you think is gonna win? Who thinks who I'm like, let me just let's just go through what's happened in the last two weeks. Cleveland with a chance to close out the pistons at home in game six. Gets their asses kicked by a million points. And so all the pistons have all the momentum. They're going home for game seven. They lose by 30 points like the individual games. I don't know. I'm just gonna say the thunder because I picked the thunder, but I will say something in my, you know what? No, forget it. Spurs. Spurs figured something out tonight and the thunder are rattled. I'm gonna go spurs. I think with thunder and seven. I'm sticking with thunder and seven. I think spurs. I could I would lean toward them game five because of the injuries. I don't think it'll mean they win the series. That's where I would land. Okay, I think it's we're almost time to bring Sean fantasy in to talk about the next. But before as we as we as Sean warms up in the bullpen. Here. What do you on a scale once a 10? What are you prepared for with Cleveland and the offseason if they get swept? I mean, everything anything. I mean, I don't. Do they have one person you'd be like no way they're trading that dude? No, do you? So if they brought me in as a conciliary. Okay. I would, probably would be my one keeper. I'd want another year with him. I liked how he played in the playoffs and I just feel like I hang nothing on him. And if I'm giving up mobile, I have to get somebody awesome. I'm not trading mobile for Yannis. That's an absurd trade. There's no way they should do that. It's crazy because last year I suggested that would be the trade all the bucks. Why is it a shirt? I just wouldn't do it. I don't think Yannis is changing the destiny of the calves winning the title. I don't think that was their issue. Their issue was that they have a back court of thought of a Mitchell and James Harden who can't guard any guards. Well, I was just playing devils. I have it because the argument for it, which you can find people who would make, I would be very hesitant to do it too and probably not because then I've just made myself in two deals. I've made myself so much older all of a sudden. But I do, I do now have an interesting two year, three year window with Don of a Mitchell. And Yannis, that's interesting. But I don't know that I've seen enough from this team to be like, well, we're, you know, we're so close. If Brooklyn Call then said, we'll give you the six pick in our 2029 first for Mitchell. We'll just take them off your hands. No way, no way. No way for who? You're doing that as Cleveland. Yeah. I mean, look, you look not even blinking. You like all those guys at six, 2029 first. I'm assuming Brooklyn is, I mean, look, all the pick values are going to change. And I save 50 million and all the luxury tax stuff. And do I think Mitchell is going to be on my team two years from now? Is he going to stay? I'm doing that. Well, okay. So you gave your, you gave your concigliery self knowledge of Don of the Mitchell's plans that I personally don't have. And he said all the right things about Cleveland, I wanted to stay in Cleveland, he signed extensions there before. But, you know, there is an interesting conversation to be had of like, is up with all these guys really? Like, is the next contract going to be worth it? I'm resetting. I made a run at it. It didn't happen. I have a chance to get an onbie guy in this draft. I keep mowbly. I reset. I reset my tax. I lick my wounds and I get ready to make another run at it with a younger team. I would, is where I would land. I would love to still have Darius Garland in that scenario, but alas. Yeah. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all day comfy grip. Just plum. Do we hydrated skin? That still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. Not, but alas, you know who we do have is Sean fantasy. Oh boy. Yes. What's up? So I owed Sean fantasy disappearance because we've known each other for 14 years. I've made a hundred million nicks jokes. He's also come on my pod many times after sad nicks events. Feel like almost exclusively almost every time you've come on something terrible. What's happened to the next? They've had a bad loss. They've done a dumb trade. Now everything's flipped. So you have the floor. Just tell us how it feels. Not today, Bill. It's Memorial Day weekend. I've been drinking. I'm feeling really good right now, man. We do. I feel like I want to go get a glass of wine and come back and just really save, really save for this. Well, you know, it's funny. The last time I was on was the last bad moment I've had as a fan of this team. It's amazing. I came on after what was the game three of that hawk series and I we could not have been more low to brutal one point losses and look at us now. We're flying, Bill. Ten and a row. Some interesting stats act with these ten and a row in the point differential and stuff about teams like if they pull up the sweep tomorrow of teams that have only lost twice, setting into a finals. Some pretty interesting teams on the list. To me, I thought whoever won this West series was winning the title. Now you see the attrition on both sides in this West series. I don't even know who's going to be playing next week whereas the next are going to be nice and rested and it's just feeling pretty magical. I don't know, Zach, where's your head out with this next thing? You talked about it a little last night. I said it after the Philly series, they can win the championship. I think Dispers is a coin flip. I think full-strength thunder is, I think I said like 25-30% chance the next could win. Obviously the thunder aren't at full strength. I think this is a legitimately really good team that has found whatever they needed to find and are in this zone now that I don't think they're coming out of it. I don't think there's a crisis around the corner all of a sudden. They lose their rhythm or towns all of a sudden wants more shots or whatever it is that would disrupt their rhythm. I don't think that's coming. I think this is the team and this is the level of play we're going to see going forward. I think they're a strange team. Brunson is a strange guy to game plan for. Towns at the five is a really interesting tough look to deal with. When they put shambit in, it's really tough to deal with. They're an unusual team that plays at an unusual cadence and I think they're going to sustain this level of play. I said after the Philly series, they can win. This is not, this is not, I was at game one, Nick's Caps and it was the day after game one spurs thunder. There was some snicker and going around from some of the league figures, agents, etc., and attendance, not people with the teams. That was a nice win by the Nick's. He had a nice comeback but the real finals is happening over there and I was like, I don't think that's true. I just don't think that's true anymore. I think they can win. Sean's head's going to explode. I, I, I've been turning this over in my head obviously a lot and I was just in Europe for 10 days and like watching games at two o'clock in the morning and trying to wrap my head around what was really going on here and I was afraid to come back to the United States to be totally honest. I was nervous that if I came back, things would go awry and then I just watched yesterday's game in normal pacific time and everything. Again, just, they just seemed different and I, I remember watching them in February and Bill, we probably were texting about it back then when they just seemed not together. It was unclear what Towns' role really was on the team. He was doing the same dumb defensive lapses and stupid fouling that he's been doing for the first decade of his career and things came together near the end of the season. They started playing better in the last 10 or 15 games of the year. They did win the NBA Cup. It's not like they did win 50 games again. You know, it's not like they weren't consistently good this year, but you know, I think also some things broke right for them in the playoffs. I think it's nice that the Celtics had to play an incredibly inspired sixers team who were desperate to beat the Celtics. The pistons, I think, were a paper tiger all season, but they also did not particularly have answers for the two teams that they played and I got to give it up to Mike Brown, man. I don't know how much you guys have been talking about it, but he's done stuff with this team that Tibz was not doing. And it was controversial, especially in New York, whether or not Tibz should have been fired. And it's a huge freaking relief to me that he was, even though I think he's responsible for rebuilding this franchise in a lot of ways, because Mike Brown is flexible, man, and he plays the bench and the bench has been a huge part of this run, the fact that they're so deep. I remember I was talking to CR before the sixer series and he was like, well, you guys aren't deep and I was like, that's wrong. This team routinely plays eight guys, sometimes nine guys in playoff games. And look, I don't know if you guys have been watching Landry Shamit for the last three weeks, but he looks like an elite bench player in the NBA. Yeah. It's been amazing. Yeah. Kyrie completely quit on him when he was on Brooklyn. I remember feeling like he was on his way out of the league. I was looking, so this has been a 10 game odyssey to get to the point they got to yesterday. I was so impressed by how they played yesterday and you look at the box score. And it's like, if you were just drawing on a map, what the ultimate next box score would look like? The Brunson had 30. OG bridges had 23 and 21. Bridges was 11 for 15 and you felt them the whole game, right? He was just, he was either running the floor or he was running in little open spaces in the half court. He was just, you felt him whereas like most of the season it felt like he was just in the corner with this hand up or not doing anything. Towns was 13, eight and seven was zero turnovers. Heart was 12, nine and five with four steals. And Shamit had 14 off the bench. There were 11 for 28 from three is they shot 55% and they had actual ball movement. And it's like, it's like these six guys make sense together and then you throw them in bride and Mitch, nine of eight. But it was watching this time. I was like, it's felt a little 2004 range pistons to me, which is interesting because I think that was the model for how they built this team. Like it was Leon Rose and worldwide West. West was a huge pistons guy. Like he was a Detroit guy and that and that model of like just bringing competitive veterans guys like kidding the right points of their careers. Guys who are going to sacrifice and you go through the moves they made. Like the pistons, they they had Ben Wallace. They signed billups and traded for Hamilton in the same summer. They drafted T Sean. But then the big move was they fired Riccala and hired Larry Brown. It's basically what the next did with tips, right? And then the Rashid Wallace deadline trade was the other one. The next they had some luck with Dallas fucking up the Bronson thing, right? That was a four for 55s act for Bronson. Dallas could have locked them down. There's a whole I don't think we have time to dig into the whole jail in Bronson who said what when what was offered when why wasn't it offered when yes, they were just that Dallas lost him. Yes, there was a time where they could have locked him down for that. And if they had been a little more proactive, I think they probably could have. So they signed Heart and Steam who was like a stopgap. But the other big lucky break for them was the Mitchell Utah trade, which I forgot the details. Do you remember what the holdup was on that trade, Sean? No, what was the holdup? The jazz really wanted grimes in the trade and the next one and quickly in the trade. And it became like, well, it's either 3M protected first or two firsts and are protected depending on who is in it. And then they said fuck you and took the Cleveland trade. Zach, if they have Mitchell and Bronson, does that team make sense to you? Plus you don't have all the extra picks to trade for bridges. I was also going back and rereading the Donovan Mitchell trade stuff for different reasons. But I remember thinking at the time and Ian Beggley was is and was the most plugged in next guy at the time. And he had a lot of the details about, well, this offer was made here at this timeline and was there a pick here? And it's just like, it just made me think, did Nick's really want to do this? Like, because they want to do it on their terms almost versus actually wanting to do it. Because they knew the question you just asked me about like these two guards, small score first, because this is actually going to work. And if we use all these assets here, what do we have left for stuck down the line? I look, I'm sure there was part of their front office. I really wanted to do it. And there was debate internally about this pick, that pick. But the bottom line is they did not go as all in as they needed to go all in. And I think it unquestionably. It unquestionably, the roads not taken for them are, are that are imbued? And obviously, Yanis is the one that have to Sean's point, halfway through the season. All the discourse was well. They blew with McElbridge. They don't have picks for Yanis. They're hopeless. And, you know, they're just kind of stuck in about I was re-listening to the live show I did in Brooklyn. Because I felt at the time, it was mid-March. And I felt like the whole show was me giving Nick's fans a pep talk. Like, no, you guys are, you guys are third and offense, six in defense. Yeah. I know it's been a little rocky, but like, who's beating you in the east? And because it felt like Nick's fans needed a pep talk. I was like, I don't. Sean did your one. I could tell you that much. I didn't have huge expectations for the playoffs. I thought they should definitely beat the Hawks. And then after that, I thought it was a crap shoot because I thought any, any of those top five teams, a lot of things also like the magic, not having to deal with the magic and then the magic kind of falling apart. It was another thing that went their way. There were a million things that went their way to the point about Donovan Mitchell. If they had acquired him and they tried to pair them together, I think it might have been a somewhat similar situation that Brunson had to contend with through the first four seasons of his professional career essentially playing behind Luca. And so you could say like, the Mavs mismanaged that scenario or maybe there was nothing they really could have done by just having a superstar backup point guard behind the single best back court player in the sport. But you just can't under like overstate who and what Brunson is. There's just, there has never been a New York Nick like him. There are very few players in the NBA like him. I think like maybe now finally NBA fans who like even if they deep down hate the next, like you can't watch him for nine consecutive fourth quarters and consistently watch him just take over games and be unguardable. I mean his shot making, he's been doing this since he came to the next. This is not new. It's like it's the supporting cast that you just described Bill. It's those guys, those pivotal moves that they've made, acquiring OG, acquiring MacKale, you know, building up Robinson so that he could play 65 games in a season acquiring cat. All of that stuff has changed. Brunson's been basically the same guy who scores 27 points a game, who is fearless down the stretch, who always puts the team on his shoulders. And when the team isn't going well, we can point to him and say, oh well, you know, it's it's Iso ball and it's all Brunson and he's taking nine of 13 shots in the fourth quarter. But when they're going good and when the supporting cast looks good, that works. And it's going to it has been working throughout this playoffs. And I genuinely, you know, you can talk about like Wal-Klaid Frazier, you know, like there's a Roman row. It's a very short list of guys that he is now getting into the conversation with after just five seasons. Yeah. And I don't know. It's make it's making my head spin. It's cry. Just when we picked him up, I was I was not against the move at all. It was obviously a very savvy contract, but never in my wildest dreams that I ever think he would become this person to the franchise. We all like Brunson. I think that Nick's felt like he could be this guy. I do think Leonardo West did feel that way. I thought that was crazy. I clearly thought he I might have even said it in the pods. Like this guy could be one of the best three guys on a final 14. Like there's no question. I didn't think he could be what he became. You're talking about like for an entire generation of Nick's fans. Well, multiple generations, but if you're talking about like 30 and under Nick's fans, like this is like their David Ortiz basically. They win the title. He becomes David Ortiz. One of the things about how they put the team together, they were cut throw it a couple times. The town's trade was cut throw. Like that like Randall was like their guy. Like they brought him in. They gave him a big extension. They went and signed DeFantinzo. They traded. I think would the trade top end to have the deep chance of money. Villanova guy. This is our crew now. And then they had a chance to get towns and they just like. Slip their throats basically went got towns. That was cut throw and then the the tips trade the tips firing. Kind of have to do that sometimes. You know, there's a difference between being desperate and cut throw those were two moves that were probably the right moves. But it's still like I don't know if all teams make those moves act. No, it's like what we talk about earlier where the focus is like check can't defend Wembee. We're trading them and it's just like we're cutting this throw. Some teams won't do it. No, the town's one was was a risk. And it's one that has has gone up and down like halfway through the season. It looked like it did Minnesota like kind of witness trade cats all over the place. And like Randall's playing really well in deep engines was essential. And now it's like swung totally the other way. But it was a bet on it was a ceiling bet. It was a we need to take some risk of absorbing this contract because it if it works. Our ceiling goes up a level that Randall and deep engines. Oh, just can't get into the center. Can't take the need of the center and you need to a five week in shoot. And yeah, I mean, they've been and it'll be was the guy they clearly just targeted. And Brunson, I remember I was with you guy. I mean, I remember vividly doing on my old podcast like that deal was slammed like really unpopular contract in a lot of corners. And I remember saying I don't I don't love it. But it's like a BB plus like Jalen Brunson's a really good player. And like it's a lot at that time. But like it's a BB plus contract. Obviously in retrospect, it was an A plus plus plus. What was it for for a hundred? What was it? A little more for 106. Yeah, 106. I was on the bullish side for it. But I also was like, yeah, it's guys at career average is 11 points a game. You know, it's it's definitely in the higher end. I do think we're all overlooking just a huge story here and a huge fly in the ointment. Um, Chalamet. No, even even more dire than the celebrity fandom. The turn of Chalamet to being on TV and stuff. which my dad by the way hates, he's like, I don't understand, did they pay for their tickets? Why do they always rich people get free stuff? I don't like it. Even more dire in Sean, I think you need to be worried. I think you need to be on higher alert. - Oh no. - I don't know if you know this, but the calves have won the shock quality battle through three games in this series. - Oh, yeah. - And I think you won. - I think you guys are actually on the ropes here. I think if you look at the tracking data, it's neck and neck, but the calves have a slight edge in shock quality. And let me tell you, I think the league is going to retroactively go back and look at the shock quality and flip the results of these games. And you might be down to one tomorrow, and he's like, I wouldn't get too excited about the finals just yet. Or the candidates are deceiving three. - Deceiving three out, Sean. Don't get comfy. - I did see that interview with Kenny Atkinson today, which was very amusing. Let's just say it's been passed around amongst Nick's fans. Listen, are you scared, Sean? Are you scared of what the next four games portend? Because of this? - What I don't want is to say something stupid, and then all of a sudden this series is 3-3, and I'm getting clipped by like calves, busting genius on x.com. I'm very excited about how well they've played. And you know what? As a dork who looks at exit Velo and hard hit rate and base ball like-- - Oh, that's not true. - I do like trick myself into thinking that that shit matters. But like look, the calves just haven't been able to hit threes in this series, but also the next play great defense. So, both things can be true. - Look, if you played those games 150,000 times, it might be a different result. Unfortunately, Sean, this is the result that actually matters and it's real. - And the fact is is that Timothy Schellamay was courtside for two of those games. So maybe he's in Donovan Mitchell's head. Have we considered that? Maybe he's in James Harden's head. - Very possible. Here's the other thing. Game four is already over because there was a play at the end of Game three that made me convince the next three of them. That Jalen Brunson hesitation layup, when all five calves just decided they were gonna move anywhere, that's the kind of thing that happens when you're going home in two days. I don't think you can come back from that. - They kinda quit. In the fourth quarter, they kinda quit. - It was a quitting is what was going on. - Yeah. - And I mean, the nicks can smell it and the nicks. And Sean went, this is the prologue of my book, The Secret. The nicks, part of the problem with them, they're in the season is everybody was having to sacrifice stuff and there were all these different times when people didn't seem that happy about the sacrificing. Those guys are all locked in now. I don't know how it happened over these last 10 games, but it happened and that's the great thing about sports when you watch it happen in real time. - I think obviously OG was unstoppable until he got injured, but The Secret is what you already talked about, which is that Bridges shooting 75% from the field and being back to that mid-range guy. And also being really comfortable as basically the second option offensively, has just totally transformed the offense for them. The early story was cat being point cat, but that has kind of moved out recently and Bridges just having much more usage in the offense makes them way more dynamic and scary. I mean, they're gonna match up totally differently, though, with either of the two teams in the West assuming they go forward. Like it's gonna be a different looking offense and it's gonna be harder, I think, for Brunson to get some of those baskets that he's been getting in the last two series. But I have to enjoy this. I mean, it's 53 years since the nicks have won a title. It's 27 years since they've been in the NBA Finals. It's 40 years since a team that I root for of the three major sports has won a title. 40 years. Like this is very rare. And it's extremely rare to watch a team that I care about, just mother fuck teams. I mean, it's just amazing how they're just dominating for the last three weeks. And so I'm such an embittered and cynical sports fan. Like I really just gotta look myself in the mirror and be like, have some gratitude, you asshole, because this is super special. Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours with flexible all-day comfy grip. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavilyen. I got this email from Yuval and Israel, and I read it to you. I remember the Mavs were two-two in the first round against the Brandon Roy Blazers. And people were saying, "Dirk is choking again." That was before the 2011 Mavs had one of the most beloved championship runs ever. Something clicked. They went on this crazy one. Went 10 and won the rest of the way in the West. Almost every Mavs part at a moment. Berea, Chandler, Peja, even Dishon, Stevenson, to beat the owns of the league that he would out home court. The next have a chance to do something similar if they take out OKC. If they actually win it, will this championship be as universally beloved as the 2011 Mavs run? This is an interesting one because it's a New York team, right? Dallas, everybody loved Dirk, including Zacklow. Everybody had kind of given up on him having a moment like that. And then he just fucking went Clint Eastwood on the 2011 playoffs. And series by series just took people out. And then they took out this heat team that everybody was annoyed by. Zack, do you see the parallels? If it was OKC, they're in this whole flop thing that this moment they're having the back-to-back and then this next team that comes out of nowhere. Do you think it would be as beloved as that Mavs title? Well, it's interesting you asked that because I saw Ethan Strauss write this column this week about basically, why is this not a bigger story? That this team in the biggest city and the biggest market is doing this? And I'm like, maybe I'd just live in the wrong place because it's like the defining story of my life-- I feel like it's a massive story. 24 hours a day. So I think it could be-- I mean, the nicks don't have a Dirk who's been just beaten down and been close to the mountaintop and shoved off. And it's like entering the back and eye of his career. And this might be his last chance. And that was also a collection of vets. But Princeton is as like the small guy underdog. And small guys aren't supposed to win titles. Kind of feels a weird part of that. No, I'm just giving you the counters before I hammer it. And the other counter is there are just some people who don't like New York City and don't like New York. And it's too big and all the famous people. I think it would be, if not as universally beloved, almost so, and such a rapturous moment around the league because it is New York, because it is the nicks. And it may depend a little bit on who they play in the finals. Because the Thunder have a whiff of a different kind of villainousness to them, at least in the way they're perceived around the league. Not the same as that Miami team. But there are just some parts of the country-- parts fans in parts of the country hate New York. And they're like, oh, boy, the big bad nicks. And we have to listen to everyone talk about New York. And the Yankees will probably win the World Series. And we'll do it all again. Well, that would be terrible. But I think the nicks are their own unique thing in New York City. Because of the sport, it's the city's game. They're the city's team. And it's been so goddamn long that I think it would be as rapturous as the Vans won. I think there's one other component to this, too, which is if this had happened last season, it might have felt a little bit different because it would have felt like they were vanquishing teams that they had not beaten before. So obviously, that Boston series, sorry, Bill, was like euphoric for Nix fans because we were underdogs in that series for real. And that was a really triumphant series win. And then they got their hearts ripped out and game one of the Pacers series. And that series was effectively over. And obviously, the Pacers have given the nicks fits over the years in the playoffs. And so if they had gone to the finals after that run, it would have felt different than this, where they're basically dispatching a bunch of teams that they've already beaten before. The nicks have three years ago beat the Cavs in the playoffs. The nicks two years ago beat the Sixers in the playoffs. Both of those teams were seated lower than the nicks are. It doesn't feel like as triumphant and stunning a run to the finals. And so maybe that's part of the reason why it's not getting these incredible national headlines. Also, at the very beginning of this season, I think most pundits felt like the nicks were the most talented team in the conference and probably should be at least in the Eastern Conference Finals. In fact, the nicks owner basically set a mandate from Mike Brown and the team that they had to make the finals that the expectation was the NBA Finals. So it's not preordained per se. But this has just been talked about for 16 months as a possibility. So it doesn't feel as stunningly special. And also, I think Zach's right that the New York teams are just hated. The nicks are kind of a fumbling franchise over the last half century. But they're just not beloved. And whatever success they have had, especially in the 90s, was for kind of like brute force unlikable style of play. And so I think for older fans, that's also burned into their brains is like, this isn't a team that I love watching. Yeah, true. This team though, this season, I mean, this playoffs, they've been a lot of fun to watch, I think. Offensively, they're pretty exciting. Yeah, so Dolan in the 2000s, a 10 out of 10 train wreck. And then the 2010s, a 10 out of 10 train wreck. That's 20 years, one fifth of a century, a complete train wreck as an owner. Right before COVID, all start weekend, Chicago. I think Zach Lowe is there. No, I'd say he skipped it because I didn't want to get COVID. Somehow I went, I went to Sundance and all start weekend in the Oscars and over three in COVID. Sean, Sean went one for one. I went to Sundance and I've never been more sick in my life. So please do have been a patient. Or I got into Sloan conference two weeks later. So I like my discipline sustained. So they hire Leon and Wes, basically three weeks before COVID, and then post COVID, they've just turned into a completely different franchise and Dolan's been a good owner. Like he's, he's let those guys do their thing. Supposedly he was the one that's like, we have to fire tips. You guys are being too loyal to him. He's not good enough. Get rid of this guy. He's paid for a lot of money. Like it's been impressive. And you'd think with that, with the sphere, which has been like one of the most successful entertainment things that has, has launched probably this century, Dolan's back, man. You got to hand it to him. I made a lot of jokes about him. I made a lot of jokes with my column and on the pod that you got to hand it to the dude, man. He's a good job. >> Back from what? Like when was he, when was he originally good at some point? >> Dolan's here. >> Okay. >> Dolan's here. I thought, I really thought for a second that you were going to draw some connection from COVID to Dolan arriving like, I thought there was going to be some sort of scientific commentary that was going to frighten me. By screen, we're just going to go black. Like the connection was going to get lost. >> Well, Sean knows. I don't really remember anything from 2020 or 2021 and there's a chance all of us are dead right now. And this isn't actually happening with the Dix. It's possible. >> I love the idea of this being your projection in your post-COVID dream state. Yeah, that's really exciting. That James Dolan became a good owner. But you got to hand it to a man he's doing a good job. The New York things are interesting because this is such a beloved team. Like if you just like basketball, I just really respect how they play. I think Brunson is just one of the most admirable guys we have in the league. But it is a New York team and there are a ton of New York fans and I don't need to tell you Sean. When it's going well for New York fans, they have a way of letting everybody know about that. I'm interested to see how everybody handles this over the next four weeks. >> I'll just say this is the first public comments I'm making since this win streak started. I've been trying to keep my mouth shut throughout this. It's great. >> It's a great way to do it. >> I don't want to jinx it and I'm also super grateful. However, like we deserve this. Come on. 53 years. >> You deserve it just for the last 20. >> Yeah. It was the 2000s. We're fucking tough, man. That was a really hard time. In addition to being inept on the court, they were entrenched in controversy and scandal nonstop. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it was a very ugly time to be a fan of that team. This just feels different. I said this to you the last year or so, Bill, but they're just normal now. They just win like 52 games every year. They have one or two players who are in the conversation for all NBA. They're just like a legitimately good NBA franchise. The other thing I'll note is that Leon Rose does not speak to the press ever, ever, and that is also so strange. We don't even really know very much about the architects of this team through this six-year period. We just know that they're making the right moves. I would say six of the eight big moves that they've made since this new administration came in. When they happened, I was like, that's not a good idea. It was my old mixed reflexes kicked in, where I was trading Randall and Devon Chenzoe. I don't get that. I hope OG is a good deal, but he's really injury prone. We're getting older in that deal. That doesn't make sense. We missed out on Katie and Kyrie, and we backfilled with Julius Randall as a free agent. Four years for Brunson, and this is at the expense of getting Don of an Mitchell. All of those times, because Nick's fans are so beat up, you could have been like, well, we're going to get the short end of the stick on this one. Every single one worked out, even Bridges, which that trade was, was, was, was pilloried as recently as April. How about a month ago? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, like, it was like way too many picks. And now all the sudden, two playoffs in a row were like, nope, he's essential. He might even be the second best player on the team. And that's astonishing. That's great. Like, the fact that all those moves that those guys made worked out, and they never once got in front of the public. And we're like, well, we did this. So trust us. They don't say anything. It's crazy. And you know they're good, is besides Brunson, the next best three guys in the team have all had moments when they've seen, like, they're clearly the second best guy in the team. And that's when you know you have a good team. But they're, Zach, I remember doing this in the 2024 finals with Celtics Dallas. When, so we're, was Celtics were favored, but maybe not as much as they should have been favored, considering the disparity, the disparity with the records and stuff. And at some point, it just became math. It's like the Celtics had been this team for eight months. This is kind of who they are. You look at the advanced stats for the playoffs. And the next have, and they're plus 18.5 for 13 playoff games that's like a small sample size. It's three different series, and it includes them being down to one in the first one. But they have the second best defensive rating. They have the best offensive rating, and they have the point differential. They have all this mass stuff in their place. We've always learned that that should be a bigger factor when you're trying to figure out what's going to happen than we give a credit for. So I assume if they blow out the Cavs tomorrow or even just win, those numbers will still be pretty good. Do you pay attention to that, though, Zach, those, those postseason advanced metric shit? Sure. I mean, again, it's a small sample, and it's so important and specific that, you know, it can be a little, you have to be careful. But I mean, when you are, I mean, I don't even care what the numbers are. And you're like, I haven't even looked. When you're this dominant, and you're winning by this many points, every single game, like I've seen some people while who have they played, they played the Hawks who fattened up against all these lottery teams. So pretty good. But didn't, didn't hear a lot about that when it was two on Hawks, although they played the Sixers who, you know, they're injury prone and Joel couldn't sustain. By the way, I do have to give you this as a Celtics person. You got the, like, the week that the Sixers became the full-fledged Sixers was against you. Similarly, five seasons ago, you got, like, the week that the Harden, Kyrie, Durant Nets became the full-fledged Durant Nets that are also against you guys. It's true. But like, I don't want to hear about any of this because if you beat three playoff teams by this much, this many times, it says something about the group that you're in. And oh, by the way, they were third in offense and seventh in defense in the regular season. And seventh in defense with this roster is quite an accomplishment. Like, it was sitting there, they were, they were, or now what they've done in the playoffs is a completely different thing, but they're just a really good team. The cut a couple, couple small breaks, but every team gets breaks every year. Tayden and Halbergen getting hurt, Yannis and Beat breaking down. But I, and that's happened. That's, that's where Ontario was scheduled year after year. The, the one real break I thought they caught was Detroit kind of choking at the Detroit deadline, not doing anything because Detroit was the one team that felt like they, like, going toe to toe with the next, they really had their number during the regular season. And why didn't they get the extra guy? And if I'm in a trade fan, I'm going crazy right now that we're not in the Eastern finals. See, I, I get it, um, three O Detroit in the regular season, I was, I would have picked the nix and six maximum, I would have picked the next 10 without even thinking that hard about it. And I would not have thrown away the regular season stuff, but I just would not have read too much into it. And I think the nix would just qualitatively have better team than Detroit because I've seen a lot of why Leonard was on the pistons. Well, okay. I mean, I've seen a lot of like, I'll Detroit with the regular season and boy, they blew it against Cleveland. I just like, I didn't like the way they were playing in the playoffs. I like the way the nix are playing in the playoffs. I don't read too much into those games. Um, I guess you can't get too comfortable because analytically you're losing two to one. Yeah. That's going to be really bad when they, when they sweep and they've lost, they, they've lost three games to one analytically. I don't know. I don't know. You're going to sleep tonight, man. This like, uh, you don't understand the month. Sean's had, he, he goes to can for the first time ever. He's there for like a week and a half. As that's happening, the nix go on the fucking all-time heater. It's like warm at the Chesterfield, just whip, whip in the Russians for 24 hours. Yeah. But they're not cheating. That's the thing you're remembering. No mechanic work. No dealing from the bottom of the deck. I wish the met's would cheat, by the way, Sean, as long as you're, I'm in for anything. Don't get me started. Don't get me started out in the back whenever you got to do because I, you know, I will burn the franchise to the ground, whatever the nix are doing, the met's need to drink some of that juice because what the fuck, dude, like absolutely, you guys complain about baseball when my, my owner has just thrown away baseball in Boston. All right. Fair. We, we traded a possible Saiyung guy this year for a guy who's sitting 161. You have any guy you like three titles? Yeah. And then he's like, he's four. Four, five, four. And, and then he's like, you guys should be more appreciative. I should be able to do it. I want. I mean, he's right. I don't know. None of us feel that way. Just out the team. The met's are way more embarrassing. First of all, they haven't one in 40 years. Second of all, they spend $400 million on their payroll and they have the worst offense in the sport. I want to jump off a building thinking about them. It's insane. Thank God for the nix. Thank God. If you spent money like that and basketball, your team would be good. You would just that would just mean you have really good players. In baseball, you can spend money on, but shit. And then he could just immediately turn into the worst short step of the national league. He makes $42 million a year. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's my fault. You know why I brought it up? Because I spent part of the day with my daughter who's now a big met's fan. We went shopping together. And she said, the met's playing this afternoon, let's check the score and it was seven thinning. This is weird. freaking mall. We're at the Stanford mall on the Sundays is my life for ball. They used to be my, my, my, hey, day place. Checking the med score, seven thinning. And I said to her, you'll never guess how many of the met runs the meds have in the seven thinning. It's zero, zero. And we drove home. We drove home. Listen to the game on the radio, bottom of the ninth, Marlins are up. We pull into the driveway, guys are on face. We turn on the TV. And airbender gives up a fucking walkoff grand slam right in our face. That's why I've brought it up because I had a day with it. I want to hear a little bit more about Bill's hey day place, the Stanford mall. What went down there? Here was the highlight. First of all, Stanford mall was unbelievable. But one summer, Woody Allen was filming scenes from a mall. But yeah, with Betmiddler and they were just there and they were directed by Paul Mesersky. Sometimes they're on the top floor and it was just such a big deal for the mall. Did you approach Woody and say, I love your work. Thanks for everything. Okay, they're impressed with it. They had a great A&W. They had a good news. Early, early friends at the A&W. We're really going to A&W there. You could do a Sam Goodie and A&W were right next to each other on the seventh floor. You could get some CDs and go get some curling fries with a Walden books was just times. Yeah, you guys are getting in a trouble. A couple of stamps hanging on Stanford mall. I took a beer floats. One of my great cinematic memories, Sean, fantasy of the big picture is waiting in line for two and a half hours for the opening night of 1989's Batman at the Stanford mall. That's how big. That is how big that movie was. The bunch of 11 to 12 year old guys were camping out basically to get into this movie. That's beautiful. I saw a lot of great ones. I don't know if they have a movie theater there anymore. Is the mall still nice? It still looks the same. A lot of the stores are closed. A lot of them have become arcades basically in one of the anchor stores. I don't know where I think might be sax has become the allegedly the nation's largest pickleball facility. Oh my god, that's the worst thing I've ever heard. That's like this guy who bought the trailblazers is like the biggest investor in pickleball. Can I tell you a pickleball story? Yeah, go ahead. Game two nicks. A team official who so not be named says hi to me introduces me to a guy who knows Joe House. I know Joe House. Sam is a good starter. I think his name is Sam Porter. He is the owner or founder or something of the biggest professional pickleball league. He looked me straight in the eye and he said, I really like what you guys do on the NBA podcasts. You and Bill have great chemistry. I can't listen as much anymore. And I said, why is like, I can't take Bill's slander on pickleball. It's just too much. I can't do it. So you've lost the listener because of your anti pickle ball takes. I'll be on the right side of history. If we lose a couple of listeners around the way, it's fine. Pickleball sucks. What was the best movie song? Can't you? Well, club kid stars Jordan Firstman, who is a Rachel Senate's friend from the TV show I love LA. It's his directorial debut. He plays a guy who's a club promoter in New York City who wakes up one day and he's in his 30s and he has no money and no insurance and nothing to show for it. And 10 year old kid shows up on his front door and is like, you're my dad. And he's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Cause Jordan Firstman's character is gay in the film. And it was funny and heartwarming and like, old fashioned and beautiful. And I was like, this is like a Barry Levinson movie or like it was a kind of like big daddy, the Adam Sandler movie. And honestly, stole my heart. I had a great time watching it. Didn't expect it. It was great. So it's like gay, Kramer versus Kramer crossed with big daddy. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's an idea. Yeah. And it's funny and sweet and excellent. Zack did Sean's projections newsletter about movies that he launched a couple weeks ago. You're get your juices water to maybe start your own version. I'm a subscriber. I think I'm a subscriber. It's it's been an idea. I've been kicking around a little scared. I forgot to do it. I will say I was doing a chat on the on the on the sub stack. And literally someone asked me, I signed up for for your thing. I'm really glad you're here. But I really need you to get both Zach and Bill writing again. It's really important to me. And I said I'm doing my best. So Bill can't just pass the book to Zach. It goes to you too. I sent like a 180 word text today. That's got me going. Just hammer out. Hammer in the two fingers get going. What was it about? I don't know. So that was about graduation plans. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, that's not exactly like writing about the NBA. But it's a start. Yeah. My I mean, my daughter has been home for the last two weeks. And you guys have younger daughters than my daughter. And she's 21 now. And we go out and she can't wait to get carted in order to drink and just let you know what's coming for you guys down the road. She'll very far away from that. Yeah. Yeah. They get they just the happiness in their eyes as they're handing their real driver's license to a bartender or waiter. Kind of like the look in your eyes right now. Sean about the next. My version of getting carted with my daughter is when she's like, Dad, take out your credit cards. You can buy me this. There it is. Which is something I'm becoming more and more familiar with. All right. You can listen to Sean on the big picture. You can list the Zach on the Zach Lowe show, which will be going. You'll potentially be a game five, right? If Cleveland somehow comes back and wins one. Honestly, I just forgot that there could be a game five to be honest. Yes, I would be there if it exists. I honestly think it's a wrap. And I think there's going to be 30 to 40% mixed fans there tomorrow would be my other prediction. Can't believe this is happening. This is unbelievable. Heard there can't get court sides. If you're a next fan, like it, though, it'll get on the ticket sites that'll just reject you if you're not from Cleveland. What is it like? They'll forcibly remove you from the arena. They'll just reset your order. But they make room for celebrities like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey. Well, we're going to have some celebs at the game tomorrow, but I don't think they'll be court side. Sean, good luck. Congratulations. I'm glad things have turned around for you. Thanks for inviting me. I became at the expense of my team. That's fine. We've been friends for a long time. Well, I deserve at least one god damn thing in this life. So thank you. Yeah, after the six Tom Brady Super Bowl, you deserve something. All right, settle down. Tom Brady. That's another thing that's happening for you. Tom Brady's getting super weird. This is like almost like another win for you. With respect, he's been an absolute weirdo for 20 years. Zach Low. Thanks as always. Good to see you. I'll see you next Sunday. Thanks to Gihau and Eduardo and Jack Wilson and Chris as well. That's it for us on Netflix. I'll be back on Tuesday. Don't forget tomorrow, animal house on the rewatchables. Thanks everybody. Must be 21 plus in president, select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus in president DC, Kentucky, or well, I mean, give him a prom call. 100 gamble or 1 800 by reset call 888 797777 or visit ccpg.org/chat and Connecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800 327 50 50 for 24 seven sport Massachusetts or call 877 8 hope and why or text hope and why in New York for Louisiana call 877 770 7867. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Maybelline New York. 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