Offer First, Funnel Second: Why Your Funnel Isn’t the Problem

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Personally, I love watching folks talk a little smack in the NFC South Trash talk chat. You also get an ad free version of your favorite locked on show and a whole lot more. You can check it out by tapping the Everyday Your Club link in the show notes. The Green Bay Packers are trading Kobe Wooden to the Indianapolis Colts for Zaire Franklin. That kicks from locked on Colts, joins us to talk about what the Packers are and aren't getting in their newest linebacker. You are locked on Packers. You're daily Green Bay Packers Podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Your team, everyday. You were locked on Packers. The Packers made a trade or at least are going to make a trade they can officially make the trade until the New League year starts next week. But they have agreed to terms to send defensive tackle Kobe Wooden to the Indianapolis Colts for veteran linebacker Zaire Franklin, someone who was a pro baller and a second team all pro linebacker in 2024 was not as good. Okay. In 2025. But there are reasons for that. There are things to talk about here. And that's why we have Zach Kicks from locked on Colts. That's what makes the locked on podcast network specials. We always have we always have someone to get a chance to talk to these players or to talk about these players with. And so Zach can help explain what the Packers are and you know, it's important to talk about what Zaire Franklin is not. We'll do all of that right now. The Packers always keeping us on our toes in the off season. That's not been the case with Ted Thompson for years, but Brian Utikens outside of character here with this trade Zach Kicks from locked on Colts joining me now to talk about my guy the Syracuse legend, Zaire Franklin. Zach, there's a lot to dig into here from personality to play style to player development because he's not the same player. He was a couple years ago. But let's start with from the beginning, Zaire Franklin was a part time player became a full time player and really broke out a couple of years ago when he when he did break out, what was it that made him pop the way that he did? Yeah, so much of it was just the way that he was able to build himself up in this organization. Right. He was a seventh round pick. A guy that you know, when you take a seventh round pick, it's a flyer on an athletic player that just kind of fit your mold. And he played a lot his working season actually, but then when his time got kind of limited and they were going to other options, he really had a fight for his way back on the field again by going through special teams and just being a guy who could work his way back into the lineup. But when he was able to get his chance back on the field, you could just see the tenacity that he brought to the position. You could see that like special teamer type of workmanship that he brought. A lot of splash plays, a lot of just working really well in kind of replacing a bit of what they lost in Shaqial Leonard or Gary Slenored when the injury started to pile up for him in his career. So honestly, I don't know what it would have looked like transitioning on this defense post Leonard's injury if it wasn't for Zyre Franklin being able to step up into that role alongside EJ Speed and alongside me. Bobbi O'Karrick, they had to leave too, right? So they had to replace quite a few faces in that lineback room, but he really stepped up. And from being like a captain on special teams early and being that kind of guy, he just was a natural fit as a captain on the defense as well when he stepped in there. So he had massive, massive shoes to fill and he filled them pretty well and including getting that all pro back in 2024. So incredible journey from a seventh round pick to being what he was able to be with the Indianapolis Colts. You mentioned the tenacity and that is the thing that I think jumps off the tape when you watch him because he's not the biggest guy in the world. He's six one, you know, two, two thirties, you know, I don't know what his playing weight is, but that's where he's listed. But he is a heat seeking missile. And I would say plays bigger than his frame. He's also got an edge to him, right? Like as a personality, like he will chirp, he will talk, like he's a tough dude. Is that do you think part of the, hey, I'm a seventh round pick? I'm an underdog, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, I've had the opportunity to meet Zyra Franklin a couple times and talk with him on shows, talk with him off, off air. He is a very tenacious guy, a very hardworking type guy. Brings a lot of that like seventh round edge to him and he understands what he had to do to earn his place in this NFL. So it's kind of like merging those two ideas of being like a leader and an outspoken leader or a raw raw guy, but also being a guy who understands where he came from and how he had to grind up to be where he is. So you'll never see him just give up on the field, you know, he's again, for all of his warts and the pros and cons of his game, which we can talk about for sure, he will always be flying all over the field nonstop 24/7, whether it's a pass rushing, whether it's defending the run, whether it's defending the pass, he will get his head in there as much as possible. And that's how, again, tackles are an overrated stat. We're not going to evaluate linebackers purely off tackles, but I think it's a good measure for hustle and energy and just help, you know, being able to stay on the football field. And I think those are three important attributes to a linebacker. So while, while tackles stats are a little bit of noise, I think him being up there and tackles so often does speak to the energy and the passion that he plays with at the linebacker position. Well, you mentioned the being being available. Like that is one thing with a linebacker. Like one way to rack up stats is to just play 17 games because especially for an undersized guy, that's not an easy thing to do. And yet, since 2021, he's only missed one game. I mean, that's pretty remarkable for, you know, a quote unquote, undersized linebacker. We'll get to the, we'll get to the warts. Okay, we'll get there. But this is a player who at his best, we've seen like, yes, tackles are noisy and I think you can rack up tackles. We pack our fans, we'll tell you Blake Martinez racked up a lot of tackles. He was not a good linebacker. A lot of those tackles were made four or five yards down the field. Quay Walker racked up a lot of tackles. I didn't, I didn't think he was a particularly good linebacker either. But when you watch him, he's always around the ball and it's part of that is speed, part of that is instincts at his best. What made him an impactful player? Again, I think just the speed, the instincts, the playing like a heat seeking missile, like you mentioned, but we're talking about at his best, like in 2024, when he was, again, maybe not an all pro, the counting stats set an all pro, but there were some warts on the field. But I think it was still his best season because you got just a really good player like we can quibble well pro, but he was a really good football player. Right. Right. Very good player pro bowl level for sure. I think he certainly earned the pro bowl. Not he got that year and a lot of it came down because like again, we have the tenacious ness, we have the ability to finish plays the energy. But then he was forcing turnovers that you're at a very, very high level. He got the peanut punch in his game that year. I got a couple of bounces in the passing game that went his way for interceptions. So at his very best, like he was on a head course collision with like I'm making these plays and making these tackles, getting these tackles for a loss, getting some sacks here and there. But then he's punching the football out as well. And the modern day NFL, you got to be able to force turnovers as defense or I mean, look at the Chicago Bears last year, right? I know I'm bringing up the Bears on the Packers podcast. You're talking about this. Right. But like a lot of their success last year was purely because of forcing so many turnovers. Right. So when you have a linebacker that can do something like that, it is a major plus and it's actually part of why again, we saw it kind of sour last year his fit, but the Colts is the turnovers just more and there. But if you can get him back to his best in 2024, where he could be a run and chase guy who can, you know, blindside hit these, these players with the ball and punched the ball out and force game changing plays. I think you have a plus player on your defense. It's just about getting him back into what fits best for him. Well, so I want to ask you about that. So what changed in 2025? Why did it look different? The Colts ran a lot of man coverage last year, a lot of man coverage and you got to just be such a to put it nicely with that Franklin. Like I think there are some things he does really well in past coverage. Like I think he's a great robot in linebacker in terms of against play action, getting his eyes back to crossers and getting back in the way. Yeah, I think he does some really good things there. And also you can use them really well as a blitzer, but his overall feel and zone coverage, his ability to stay with running backs and man coverage, it's just not there. It's not, I mean, most linebacker struggle in this regard in the NFL. Not every linebacker can be Fred Warner, but this is where I think he really soured on the Colts fan base and stuff is because he was kind of a target in the passing game, especially in zone coverage, just the overall feel for routes behind him and in front of him wasn't where you wanted to be from a guy you're paying as much as the Colts were. So that's kind of where the issue has really came. And then when the Colts just started running, man coverage like a 30 to 40% rate, it's either blitz him or he's going to be a target for other teams. So it kind of became a weird fit. The Colts overall too did struggle with some injuries up front that led to more lineman reaching him at the second level in the run game. He was also pressing a little bit to make these big plays in the backfield and it led to a lot of times. Yeah, his mistackle rate really climbed this past season, especially the last two seasons actually, because he was really, really pushing to make those big plays in the backfield. So if you can get him, again, I don't know the situation in Green Bay. Like what he is, he's probably going to be your green dot there, is he? I would assume. Yeah, I would love him back in like a will role just because I like him more is that backside running chase guy. I think he's good Mike because he is such a vocal leader and I do like him as a green dot. It's just he presses a little too much for a green dot for me. I would like to see a more in that run and chase where you can be a little bit more volatile. So I think that is where some of the concerns can be. But overall, I think he does give you a nice solid floor. And if you're not asking him to be your best defender on that side of the ball, like the Colts kind of were on that second level, I think he can be a really good auxiliary player for a defense. Or is that case from locked on Colts next on locked on Packers? Workplace chaos, deadline stacking up inbox overflowing and the one position you have to fill is still sitting open when the pressure is on and you need to write higher. This is a job for sponsored jobs indeed, sponsored jobs helps you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for skills experience location. So you're not just hoping the right candidate stumbles upon your post. And here's a stat that says it all in the minute or so that I've been talking to you companies like yours have made 27 hires on indeed, according to indeed data. That's worldwide. 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And that's I think a perfect way to frame this because the packers have Edron Cooper and he's their run in chase guy and so can you bring in a veteran that's going to get everybody lined up that's going to get everybody in the right mindset he is like that's that's the thing that I think is the best about this for the packers yes he's a veteran you can just plug and play but they need some edge they need some f you and if there is one thing you know is that frankly that is going to bring to a football game he's got that f you know it might be a little too much edge for cold like cold fans are on him the podcasting and all that they're not going to sour on my promise you because this team needs it they are they are a little I don't want to use the s word because the s word is a dirty word but they they need the edge yeah well here's the thing when you're winning games and you have a guy like that he's your bet he's your the best thing in the world when you're on an eight game losing streak and you have a guy like that who's still talking and it's still doing then it runs its course but overall I mean Zyre Franklin outstanding leader with the Colts heat seeking missile like you mentioned and really grind his way up from seventh round pick I'll never have a negative thing to say about Zyre Franklin even if there were warts in his game I really respect the guy and I'm excited to see him with his next opportunity here in Green Bay yeah no one's saying he's Fred Warner right right as long as you don't expect him to be Fred Warner that like it this is this is okay like not everyone has to be the packers got spoiled they got mica Parsons right like not every trade is gonna net you mica Parsons it is interesting to me like if the packers are going to run more dime this year you think he just comes off the field in a situation like that like Edger and Cooper becomes your solo line macro you think that's the best way to do that it's probably the way I would approach it I actually was really intrigued by him as a blitzer last year with the Colts especially when you're doing like stunts into his because he's a he did it way more last year right like more than he ever had yeah most blitz I think it's the most past rushing reps he's had so the Colts were really trying to find ways to maximize him and I thought he did some really good things with some stunts and twists the Colts blitz set like the fourth highest rate in the NFL last year too and I think part of that was getting him out of coverage and more into into past rushing but I do think there is a little bit of juice that he brings in that area so you know you can have him do some limited at things in past coverage and overall I think again with his ability to robot and just how much football he's seen in his career you don't have to just like be scared of him on base downs or like early downs so I think he does give you some value there but like I think if you do more time it really depends on the situation if I would have him off the field or on the field so Jonathan Ganon was in Indianapolis the first couple seasons of Zaire Franklin's career before he was the guy that we saw over the last couple years in terms of a full-time starter and getting the pro ball and all pro nads how do you think that impacts the way that that the packers could potentially use him in terms of the different defenses like he's he's played some different styles here so you know I presumably Jonathan Ganon and Bobby Babich who's the new pass game coordinator for the packers former linebacker scoech pointed him out and said we think this guy can come help us what do you think it was early on that would make Jonathan Ganon go hey I want that guy yeah I mean I'm trying to remember how much Ganon overlapped with him I think it was only until Ciriade got hired right so the two or three years early on yeah two or three seasons that have to double check yeah so I mean even if he wasn't really seeing Zaire Franklin as a starting linebacker in Indy he was seeing the energy he was bringing to practices at least right he was seeing that ability to command a room and look even early on when when Darius Leonard Chiquil Leonard was their their heart and soul of their defense right he was all the energy possible it's not like Zaire Franklin was quiet during that right Franklin was a huge part of that locker room as well and he was he was wearing a sea for the special teams early on so like he was a very pivotal part of that locker room early and if all else fails right Ganon was at least seeing that he was seeing just how important he was to that locker room how he was a guy that people look to I mean during a lot of the cult social movements I remember back in the early 20s and the late 2010s Franklin was the one leading the charge there even when Leonard was on the team right and Franklin was a special teamer you know he was just that vocal point of the offense of the defense so I think at the very least even if Ganon didn't see him as a starter he saw him as that guy that guys just really revolve around and they listened to and they respect and and even if he's not a perfect fit for a green dot that's the kind of personality you want at the green dot and that might be exactly what they're looking for yeah so I double check 2018 to 2020 was the was the overlap so still that's a couple seasons I mean that's that's long enough to get to know a guy for sure especially when you know even if he's a special teams player he was a core special teams player to your point here is he the kind of player you think that that really needs you know space eating defensive tackles to keep him clean or is he someone who can shoot gaps and get off blocks as well to your mind I would prefer to keep him as clean as possible like you said he's not like to be kept clean but right right but he's not like a thumper you know he's not a guy where you want him to meet many dudes in the whole I think you know if you're going against like zone running teams which I mean you guys have Detroit in your division you have Chicago everyone's the zone running team in that division right Vikings he can dip offense tackles and offensive lineman who get to him at the second level a good shoulder dip he's a fluid and very good athlete you know he tested out of the war out of this world that's a prospect back in the day so he can get around guys but he's not a guy like if they get hands on him then it can be kind of a mess format that second level either getting driven off the ball or getting knocked on the ground so you want to keep him as clean as possible if you're going to have guys reach him at the second level though at least slow them down so you can give him that chance to beat them to the spot or dip them because there's going to be some chances that he takes at the second level in the run game but he's got the fluidity to get around those guys just we got to make sure they get the hands off him is the big part of it. Yeah so we talked about his instincts and his speed and all those things Packer fans will remember two years ago against the Colts Malik Willis and Matt LaFlor and Josh Jacobs had him in a straight jacket because he did not know where the ball was they had they busted out all those single wing high school concepts and he did not know his ass from a hole in the ground in that game now bespoke game plan an offense that no one prepares for every week the Colts had no idea what they were going to see so a little bit unfair but it seems to me like the thing about him is he's going to play aggressively which means he's going to be wrong and he's going to guess wrong and that's just something that you're kind of just going to have to take the good with the bad here is that about accurate. Yeah you guys are going to be frustrated a little bit with some of the mistakels and poor angles at times like there are going to be moments like that because there are there is some risk taking in his game. I remember distinctly gaming at Atlanta this year he had like a pivotal sack in overtime and like a huge like run tackle for a loss in that game and what helped the Colts get the victory but throughout the game I'm like man this is such a frustrating run game because every big run Atlanta had he's shooting a gap perfectly getting back there and just missing the tackle or falling at the guys legs and and it's a it's a frustrating thing to see because it's like you're so close to making this big time play for us. It's hard to really corral that kind of gunslinger mentality at a linebacker position because you're also like I do want you to make you know get make contact at the running back one yard in the backfield. I don't want to tell you to slow down so now you're you know letting him get a three yard gain but also you want to just get in their mind like make the tackle please make the tackle it's not impact play if the guys gaining 20 yards after you miss the tackle so at this point in his career you might just be living with it but there will be some pros and cons obviously to having that volatile play at linebacker. Well it should be should be fun no matter what even if it's going to be frustrating Zach appreciate the time. Of course I'm always excited to talk to our Franklin again the highs and lows I respect the guys so much that I hope for the best with him. All right thanks is Zach for joining the show excellent to get that perspective from him and I can't tell you how excited I am for what we got come in this week. It's going to be a blast to talk about all the machinations here the Rashan Gary weirdness will have more on our Monday show that what's going to happen without Jenkins is there something brewing with a trade there. I think that's definitely something worth monitoring here and then whatever the packers are going to do in the next couple days with the legal tampering period and the free agent officially beginning in the middle of the week so keep it locked here always subscribe so you get the show right in your feed you don't have to worry about it to go find it it's right there for you. Subscribe on iTunes so that you can watch us all these episodes are on video and of course we're live twice a week with the squad show we'll be live if there's big news to go with maybe you were Sean Gary trade maybe an Alton Jenkins trade maybe something really crazy is going to happen we'll be here for all of it and you can follow me on the social media as well. 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